Last Will Mafia II (Over)

[Twomz]

How public should we make the wills? Should we just play this like normal mafia until someone starts getting a lot of votes? Is it better to spread out the votes over a large number of people rather than gather them all to a small number of people?

Sorry, haven't read the first one and figured some of these may have been figured out already.

vote: Nacho

for great justice.

[Twomz]

@ Pittbunny: I don't know what you're talking about >.> it wasn't that I was in those games, it was the CMaR replaced into them.

[Twomz]

Twomz needs more votes.

This feeling you have is actually counterintuitive. The more scummy I feel early on, the more likely I am to be town and vice versa. Ask CMAR, Pitt and anyone else that's played with me.

I voted Nacho because I've played with him. I'm not quite sure why you're harpin on me for that though.

[Twomz]

I hope kmd's kill goes through, that'll be funny as balls (although ending the day would be bad, so hopefully it's not that kinda daykill, or we'll be back at square one tomorrow). Anyway... why is there a separate 'random voting stage' anyway? Sure, you're first couple of posts are random in content... but after a while people start discussing things (omghaxright?) and actual conversation happens that helps the town find the scum.

Unvote

for now. Will vote for someone if/when the kmd kill goes through.

[Twomz]

Vote: kmd

[Twomz]

Hmmm.... Day 1 it's kind of pointless to do this... but what the hell, you only live once right?

Unvote

Kmd, if your kill does go through at the end of the day I can make.... arrangements for you >.> <.<

Interested?

[Twomz]

Not quite sure what you mean by that but the comment wasn't directed at you, so shush .

[Twomz]

One major example is RQS (Random Question Stage).

I'd like to have something like this between the start of the day and the day 1 lynch. (worked in a marathon game I played in at least /shrug)

[Twomz]

I think some people are not taking the game seriously enough and some people are taking it too seriously. Middle ground people, middle ground. It's a game, but you need to try to win it .

We have way too many people yet to post.

Yeah, but it's only been two days since the thread opened. Looks like longer cause we're at page 7, but with 23 players the pages will fly by I guess >.<

I do agree that everyone needs to post though.

[Twomz]

Dane Cook - Jester - Exploded Pregame
Thich Nhat Hahn - Survivor - Exploded Pregame
Jim Jones - Cult Leader - Exploded Pregame

He speaks the truth. None of this is in the game (I assume from first post).

[Twomz]

I'd still like to know what kmd saw on page 3 for a scum read on Twomz and Nacho.

He probably doesn't have anything, just wants to gauge our reactions. I don't mind as long as he continues to actually scum hunts alongside poking at me (and Nacho, although his opinion on the situation is his own).

If he actually has a question or a point against me, I will try to comment on it if he actually posts it .

[Twomz]

Twomz, arrangements? Huh?

Yup, no strings attached either.

Interested?

[Twomz]

Twomz (4) - Pittbunny, kmd4390, Diacria, Shattered Viewpoint

Ha! I'm winning .

Also, waiting for kmd's response.

[Twomz]

Woohoo 5... I'm at L-...6

Trembling in my boots here. Still waiting on kmd's response.

[Twomz]

@kmd: Since you're daykill (if it exists) is most likely one shot, I decided that it would be fun to give you another one-shot ability tonight to help out. I was hoping I wouldn't have to come out and say something like this, but would draw enough attention that maybe the scum would shoot at me instead of say... a cop, but I guess it doesn't matter all that much.

If kmd's kill doesn't go through the free one-shot w/e goes to someone else. Anyone interested in a second spot?

[Twomz]

...neither words nor board appropriate images properly express my rage at this turn of events.

No deal for you.

[Twomz]

TWOMZ, WHO'S SCUM?

If I knew I'd be voting for them and pushing for their lynch. With 23 players, unless I get some huge gut feeling, it will be a bit before I pick out a person to wagon for today.

Everyone voting richard for the overreaction to Amished's vote on him? Eh, good enough for Day 1

unvote, vote: Richard

.

[Twomz]

It'd be kind of silly to just watch one player, especially in a 23 player game. I hope you're spreading your gaze over everyone. (I attempt to do so, but I admit I pay more attention to the more vocal and the nonposters... darn you active lurkers, I know you're there!)

[Twomz]

unvote, vote: Diacria

insisting that some of the people on his 'lurker list' are scum (there have been many attempts to determine if lurking is townish or scummy and the results are inconclusive at best. Just lurking is a null tell, get over it) and wtf does picking and choosing targets even mean? You only get one vote, you HAVE to pick and choose targets... it's the most important part of the game.

[Twomz]

CLAIM: I'm the princess, well technically the prince lol. Except according to my message if i have read it correctly, i am only given a funeral if i am killed during the day.

[Twomz]

So... what's going on? I think I'm confused and need to start doing ISO's or copying posts and separating them into conversations. I feel like I'm standing in a room with a dozen different conversations happening all around me and I'm just getting bits and pieces of all of them >.<

[Twomz]

Well, even if it's just pointing fingers, I'm liking the conversations going on better now.

We just need to get everyone talking . I'm still wondering why Millar claimed so early... and why I haven't noticed more people talking about it.

[Twomz]

Obviously not very closely, cause even I know what's going on. I do want to say try harder to post on the right account... you could try bookmarking the thread on the Diacrea account and only getting to the game that way, so you're always on the right account when posting?

[Twomz]

That does mean that it's a 'publicly known' role in the game. It would be an awful fakeclaim, unless Millar is trying to draw out the real one. While possible, it's very unlikely.

[Twomz]

I am interested in why he would roleclaim for no apparent reason, but I think he's town for now.

LlamaFluff's no play list is getting pretty bloated huh?

[Twomz]

I hate "I'm still here" posts, but yeah. That. The lack of Twomz votes in the last vote count is disturbing.

unvote, vote: Diacria

insisting that some of the people on his 'lurker list' are scum (there have been many attempts to determine if lurking is townish or scummy and the results are inconclusive at best. Just lurking is a null tell, get over it) and wtf does picking and choosing targets even mean? You only get one vote, you HAVE to pick and choose targets... it's the most important part of the game.

It's also on the VC. I have been meaning to do an ISO of the top suspects to decide how exactly I sit with them as well. Sorry that I didn't do it earlier in the weekend, I was out of town for my wife's birthday/4th of July, so I didn't have the time to sit down and reread anything, just stay caught up.

[Twomz]

^ If raider flips scum, you are scum.

If I flip town, and I WILL, you are scum.

If Richard is town, you are town.

If you're going to include that there's no point in the other two unless it's false.

unvote, vote: CSL

[Twomz]

Any particular reason for me raider? Or are you just throwing out names you think others would agree with to get pressure of your wagon?

[Twomz]

I did reread over some people in ISO, but didn't see anything that wasn't already commented on. And then I voted CSL for something that recently happened.

Just cause I say I'm gonna read over something doesn't mean I'm going to post some huge post cutting apart every detail of what someone said (I'll only do that if I think doing so will prove definitively that they're scum... and that can't happen unless they either really screw up or several days in when there are multiple lynches to analyze).

[Twomz]

@ Xite: I understand, although I disagree. Hopefully I will prove myself useful and nonscummy to the town at some later point in town. And if you turn out scum and are messing with me... I WILL find you out and I WILL kill you.

<3 Twomz

[Twomz]

Hi SV. It looks like I'm conveniently already voting for you.

Sometimes things just work out like that.

[Twomz]

@ Rhinox: You built up a good case against Xite... then vote Chrono for activelurking?

@ CSL: Millar has been in the game for a while. Also, understand that the mod is looking for multiple replacements already, at least finish the day to help him out.

[Twomz]

unvote, vote: Shattered Viewpoint

because I believe his continued involvement is detrimental to the town and from my experience with him in other games, it's not going to get better... if we don't lynch him he'll just draw the (possible) vig kills away from mafia (unless he is mafia... which I don't know if he's acts this way as either alignment or if he acts differently as scum, I have only had one game with him).

[Twomz]

If SV had claimed I would have probably pushed for his lynch even more. He should have claimed at the start of Day 1, acting scummy as a miller is only going to waste time for the town. That said, of course people on his wagon were probably scum. Any wagon yesterday probably had at least one scum on it.

@ mod: Is there flavor for the NK or is it just that they're dead now with no info.

Related to that question since I decided to be so upfront this game... Ythan, did you kill Diacria, did your kill not work or did you not receive a kill last night? You don't need to give out any info if you don't want to, I'm just asking.

[Twomz]

I'd rather not say.

Understandable, I was mainly just wondering if you got it or if I'd been RBed.

[Twomz]

I think you misunderstand your ability. I got something this morning.

Ugh, reading over it you're right... that sucks, I'm used to 'gifts' being usable that night >.<

Ok, I need to start on a 'probably town' list soon /sigh.

[Twomz]

@ kmd: I'll take that bet. If at least 1/2 of Amished/Twomz/Ani/Pittbunny is scum I'll change my avi to



for at least a week. If less than 1/2 of Amished/Twomz/Ani/Pittbunny is scum you'll change your avi to the above link for at least a week.

Deal?

[Twomz]

Kmd, Twomz is town. I said so already.

That's why I took the bet . If two of the others are scum then I do better in the game by killing them anyway, if they aren't then kmd has to change his avi... it's win/win!

@ EGL: I agree w/ ythan, he put his name a different color because saying your town in a list like that is useless, it's better to just say 'here's me, I'm not talking about me, others can/should'.

Not quite sure what's up with the Xite/Richard thing... ?

[Twomz]

@ Rhinox: 1) None of my scum readings were strong enough where I'd forgo passing up the days lynch because I'd rather push it (if no one else joined in). SV had the most votes, so I looked over him, and decided he wasn't contributing and since I'd been in another game with him decided he wouldn't be contributing, so I voted for him. If SV had flipped scum I would have been pleased, but not surprised. The fact that he was a miller surprised me, but it doesn't matter since he's dead (his actions most likely would have drawn a cop investigation in the next couple of days anyway, which would have outed a cop and wasted a lynch because he didn't claim at the start of D1). I don't feel bad about his lynch and I think it was the right move.

2) How is that role fishing? I don't get your logic on the matter at all...

[Twomz]

I guess I wasn't being obvious enough. There was no typo, the 'second spot' was because kmd was in the first spot (he got kicked out when I found out his dayvig was a lie).

The way I read the deadline rules is we still need a majority, just of the people voting... so if 4 people are tied for most votes, there'd be no lynch. Example, 20 players in game, 10 people voting, 6 for guy A, 4 for guy B. Guy A is lynched. Or, 20 people in game, 20 people voting, 5 for A, 5 for B, 5 for C, 5 for D in that order. No lynch cause it would take 11 votes at deadline to lynch (A majority of those voting). And rereading the rules makes me more confident that I'm right and did the right thing (even if it was extended 4 days, I never said 'LYNCH HIM NOW' I was just getting us to the point where we could finish him off, consolidating our votes or w/e).

[Twomz]

Vote: CSL x2

I suggest we just let Millar be vigged, if he's telling the truth, a lynch is something we don't want, if people think he's scum he'll be vigged eventually. People who push 'policy' lynches on a player with no regard to their claim or actions is detrimental to the town (if I could vote for charlie and CSL I would).

[Twomz]

A millar scum flip would point a lot of suspicion on Xite, but a town flip for Millar... that'd just be confusing... >.<

[Twomz]

Judging by the unsupported finger pointing you did yesterday Charlie, I'm disinclined to believe you actually have any idea who scum are unless you yourself are scum. From your ISO it seems as if you say I'm giving off town vibes, then say if I'm scum then Raider's scum and use that as the sole reason to push his wagon... and later talk about how we need more votes for multiple wagons... none of which you'd given reasons for (beyond the thing with me and raider, which I don't get). Your last post of Day 1 (ISO 36) has been pointed out to be probably the scummiest post so far in the game...

And now you're saying

I'm already voting for the scum!

again without citing any reasons or thoughts on it...

unvote x2, vote: Charlie x2

I'd still like CSL to post more, he seems to be active lurking through the start of his wagon, possibly to stagnate discussion on his scumminess (if I'm wrong, prove it through action CSL ).

[Twomz]

Sorry for double post...

Town Read

rhinox (CryMeARiver) - Giving off a 'distracted townie' kinda vibe, but time will clarify alignment I hope. Good posts overall, although I'm still wierded a bit by ISO 17, with the xite/chrono thing.

nachomamma8 - LURKING, but probably town (that may just be my meta feel for him though).

Ythan (danakillsu) - Town by gut feeling. Late replaced into Day 1, by the end of today I'll have a better read for him.

raider8169 - Lurker hunting a lot. Lots of votes, but wasn't on SV wagon at any point.

Super Smash Bros. Fan - Strong poster, probably town but it could be just a townish style of posting.

Jahudo (Chevre/easjo682) - Jahudo is doing a good job making up for lost time with the slot .

kmd4390 - Getting a town vibe from Kmd, even with the fake daykill (still upset about it >.> not sure why).

Magua (The King of Eggs) - Actual reasons for votes? My hero.

holycon - Had an actual good case on Richard (imo I should have read over it better, I probably would have gone along with it), but voted SV to stop NL (wasn't only one but worth pointing out).

Scum Read

Amished (DocPotter) - Spent a good amount of effort building a case on CSL, then voted for SV to stop no lynch (no other reason given that I saw) and voted Chrono at the start of Day 2 (again, no reason that I saw).

chronopie - Lurking/Active Lurking... needs to post more.

CSL - Case in previous posts.

EGL - I agree with the 'put vote on SV and rode out Day 1' crowd. Attacking others for content with very little of his own.

RichardGHP - Mostly fluff posts, very little content. No explanations for votes, seemed to be following wagons.

Xite91 - Possibly scum, agree with a lot of what others have said about her... but I think observation and forced posting is the correct direction to take now (as in, not seeing a Xite lynch today... maybe down the line).

Charlie - Case stated in previous posts.

Neutral

Pittbunny - Lots of fluff posts, following wagons without contributing more... I expect more from you PB >.<

Locke Lamora (Reverse Simplicity) - No read.

animorpherv1 (carneybaby88) - Playing to his meta, but not contributing... CONTRIBUTE!!!

Other

millar13 - So far not contributing in any way I can tell. Good chance of being scum or at least useless townie... because of claim however, best bet is to vig if possible.


Keeping my vote where it is... I can go back over any point I made above, they're really just kneejerk reactions after quick ISOs.

[Twomz]

@ Charlie: Care to explain the "Agree, but for different reasons" and the "Fails"? Also, care to try to refute any parts of any of the cases against you?

The lists and opinions in it will hopefully be changing daily. I probably need to do a more in depth ISO on some of the scum reads I have... but I'm so lazy /sigh.

[Twomz]

Oh. I thought it was like, some secret code or something.

I assumed it was either his way of spelling it (done for a reason, but on purpose) or he had some sort of PR. Didn't want to mention it cause if it was a PR he probably couldn't say so anyway /shrug.

[Twomz]

Damn, way too busy lately.

A Charlie lynch would be bad.

Care to explain why not? Cause it doesn't seem like he actually wants to defend himself or contribute to the game and he's been acting rather scummy.

[Twomz]

@ Xite: Did you mean charlie instead of ani after your charlie quote?

[Twomz]

...Obvious OMGUS isn't really even a scumtell anymore, it's when they're not being obvious about it is when you have to watch out for it. That's a pretty weak 'gambit'...

[Twomz]

There's many kinds of OMGUS votes. Obvious RVS OMGUS votes, 'That's a horrible reason to vote for me' OMGUS votes, 'Emotional' OMGUS votes, subtle pressure without a vote OMGUS, 'Your vote on me made me look over your posts closer' OMGUS votes... there are many reasons and possibilities for OMGUS and from what I've seen they happen all the time.

Sometimes they are for flawed or weak reasons, but not scummy. Sometimes (like when there is no actual vote, but the OMGUSer is trying to turn the wagon around) it is for scummy reasons and you need to watch for it >.>

Or maybe things have just changed from when I used to play.

[Twomz]

@ Charlie: I thought I was actually being pretty upfront with wanting to lynch you, what with voting you, posting cases and pushing for your lynch at every opportunity >.> You're still dodging questions people have put to you out of apparent laziness.

And about mafia inventors? Pretty sure I've seen them before, but mainly in games like Upick where players get a list of powers to choose from and any alignment can get any ability. But, until the mod comes out and says 'Twomz is town' you don't have to believe it... if you want to assume I'm scum and keep pushing for you can if you really want to, it's not gonna hurt my feelings or anything >.> But if I were a 'mafia inventor' then I'd be able to give extra kills to mafia members in secret... and I don't really think I'd even consider giving them to other players or making who I give what to public knowledge, that'd just be stupid.

It seems like a lot of the town has posted cases/ISOs/lists/whatever and is waiting for others to respond... so please go ahead and respond so that we can move on with the day >.<

[Twomz]

Charlie, CSL, Chronopie, RichardGHP... there are cases up on all these players by multiple people, both voting for them and voting for others.

EGL, Ythan, kmd4390, holycon, raider8169, chronopie, millar13... none of these players are voting for anyone, that needs to change. Either vote for one of the above or make a case on someone else and vote for them. A third of the remaining town isn't voting, that's inexcusable this far into the day with so much discussion being made.

@ Rhinox: What does my role have to do with your perception of my alignment anyway?

[Twomz]

Votes are also for applying pressure and providing information for the town. By not voting you're relieving pressure on those you suspect and denying information to the town.

Now, being clear in your suspicions and being active in the game makes voting redundant (it does collect the town's suspicions into one place but meh)... but several people not voting are also not posting or at least not actively trying to find scum.

So, voting > not voting...

[Twomz]

"You should believe that I was gambiting because I said so"? Wow, Richard, I lost all faith and trust in you. After the town decides what to do with CSL/Charlie, I'm coming after you.

@ Kmd: You think I'm scummy because of a) My vote on Richard day 1 was explained b) No one voted for me and c) My CSL vote, correct?

[Twomz]

Twomz, I don't remember "A" happening. "B" is a straight up no. And I don't remember "C" either.

A)

Twomz vote on Richard way back on Page 10 seems overexplained for a quick "meh, let's do this" kind of vote.

B)

Twomz, I didn't mean your vote was disturbing. I meant that it's disturbing that nobody is voting you.

C)

Twomz's vote on CSL is horrible.

Only other specific thing I found you commented on was my vote on Nacho... you mean to tell me there's some OTHER reason besides the stuff you've been saying in your posts as to why you think I'm scum and you just haven't been saying what it is?

@ Rhinox: Whatever floats your boat man, I don't particularly care if you're suspicious of me or if you think my role might be mafia or not. I don't care if people think my role is town, I care if people think my play is town. (I'm trying dammit >.<)

On Richard lynch... I'd be fine with it, I'll wait til a votecount before I shift my vote over though, it's still 12 to lynch though right?

[Twomz]

I care what you have to say Rhinox, if I didn't I wouldn't be asking you about your opinions or trying to figure things out lol. But, I've always been of an opinion where role does not equal alignment and seeing someone else pushing the issue doesn't bother me at all, even if it accuses me of being scummy (I know I'm town and hopefully, again, my actions will prove it to others).

Again on SV... it doesn't matter if we lynch mafia or if they get NKed as long as they die, if we were going to waste a kill on SV, might as well be sooner rather than later and get some information on it /shrug. The second point... I didn't have a clue. He was acting the same as he did in Go Play in Traffic where he was town... but he was active lurking and not giving any content (great town meta huh?). The fact that he turned miller means that lynching him earlier rather than later was the better move (no wasted investigation), but that's hindsight speaking.

[Twomz]

Richard at 6 votes?

[Twomz]

I assume it happens on both sides. It's the sign of a bad player, not a scumtell. That said, I agree with many of the scum thoughts against richard and have posted my own.

For the sake of moving the game along

unvote x2, vote: richard x2

. If richard claims/calms down/starts posting helpfully I may move back to charlie.

[Twomz]

I assume it happens on both sides. It's the sign of a bad player, not a scumtell. That said, I agree with many of the scum thoughts against richard and have posted my own.

For the sake of moving the game along

unvote x2, vote: richard x2

. If richard claims/calms down/starts posting helpfully I may move back to charlie.

What do you think of Fan trying to paint it as a purely scum action?

Slight lean of scumtell, most any action can be done by town or scum (by 'most any' I mean I don't want to look for examples, but probably 'all'). But you see people say 'that's a scumtell, town wouldn't do that' when it's just bad play.

The claim is believable but also fakeable (oops, I killed ___ last night, guess no one tried to kill them)... although I agree w/ nacho that it's basically another vig for the town.

Unvote, vote: Charlie

for now. Anyone have any reason to doubt the claim or wants to continue with the Richard lynch? Or can we move on down the line?

[Twomz]

Xite, this ^^^^ is why I switched my vote. It's funny you said you got your eye on me cause we basically said the same thing in our posts, I just unvoted and put my votes back on charlie >.>

[Twomz]

@ PB: You've continued to ignore people asking for content and answers to questions while quoting one of the people attacking you and instead of responding to the point (which has been made by several people) he say's that he needs to be attacked with more 'conviction' and comments on the MafSepia board style >.>

[Twomz]

@ PB: Look at my case and other's cases on charlie, then look for his responses to them... they aren't there. He's been ignoring every point against him and refusing to comment.

@ Xite: Understandable, I try not to sit on the fence but when you try to narrow down the field and assume "guilty before innocent" it can seem pretty neutrally.

[Twomz]

CSL and some others... I made a list and you responded to it, why do you have to keep asking?

And why aren't more people voting charlie?

[Twomz]

Stupid RL, catching up now, anything interesting happen?

People not voting Charlie are now haunted by 'bad juju'. This usually results in a drunken night of regrettable sex followed by at least one STD, also pimples.

[Twomz]

@Charlie: Who the hell is toothless?

I can answer that. My avatar is Toothless from How to Train Your Dragon. He's been calling me that all game.

Also, the act of lynching to avoid no lynch isn't always scummy, it just is when it's the sole reason for the vote (imo).

[Twomz]

42 pages of content and you finally put out a post with some content in it...

And you not only don't vote, but you FoS lurkers?

Can we just end this? There's no way a town player has no suspects besides lurkers with this much crap going on.

[Twomz]

I still want to lynch charlie, but I'd be willing to lynch CSL or Richard instead (I dunno about his claim either, plausible but not confirmed and 'mafia doc' is a role, might just be saying cpr doc so if he's kill tracked he can feign innocence /shrug, although razering says he's actually just a CPR Doc, but meh).

@ Nacho: If you feel so strongly about EGL, why haven't you been pushing the lynch harder?

[Twomz]

Leaving my vote where it is, waiting for prod/replacement posts... >.>

[Twomz]

Way to not read the last line of his post Millar.

[Twomz]

I was thinking about moving my vote over to EGL, or at least considering his case in more depth... but then charlie posted again and reminded me why I have my vote on him.

/sigh

[Twomz]

My votes where I want it and I'm keeping up with the thread.

[Twomz]

AVENGE ME!

Ditto.