Open 226: Big Love - Game over! Town wins!

[Fidelis]

/confirm. Meh I'm the only one with no picture...

[Fidelis]

dear god, this is madness! I'll figure something out eventually.....

[Fidelis]

Robocopter87 and yabbaguy are arguing. I think that's a scumtell.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Robocopter87

Why did you pick Robocopter and not yabBaguy? Just wondering...

[Fidelis]

Ok ya I get it self voting is anti-town and pretty much pointless for anything Town wants out of RVS... Can we move on and start generating discussion?

Trying to shift attention away from yourself? Meh there's nothing really suspicious about the self-voting though... RVS has random in it after all.

[Fidelis]

more chi hua hua votez please.

For what reason please?

And I'll have an avatar by tonight once I'm back on my own computer.

[Fidelis]

FOS: Shattered Viewpoint

. Just ISO him. Like, stop reading the thread and ISO him now.

All it looked like to me was a bunch of useless posts, agreeing with people, and flipping out. I take it you saw something else?

[Fidelis]

zero: yabba asked people to iso someone and didn't give a reason. how is that different from me asking people to vote someone without giving a reason? also, how do you address the issue of players having their own brains. again, how is asking people to vote for someone without giving a reason anti-town/scummy? or are you saying something different?

I know this was directed a Zero, but whatever.
ISOing someone doesn't nearly have the same effect as voting them. An ISO may lead to a vote, or provide a reason for a vote, so asking to ISO with no reason is the same thing as asking them to see if there is a reason. Asking someone to vote without a reason is completely different. And at the time, you weren't giving a reason why even you voted.

[Fidelis]

I don't see why a lover would defend their partner to prevent themselves from death, especially at this stage.

Ummm why wouldn't a lover defend their partner? I mean they wouldn't do it openly of course, but still I'm sure no lovers are going to stand by and let their partner die.

And Shattered, please, if its your first post for awhile and you vote someone, can you at least give a little reasoning behind your rampancy? You're seeming either pointless or scummy, I can't decide which yet.

[Fidelis]

MAFIA HAVE LOVERS WHO ARE TOWN DUMB DUMB!

Only one mafia has a lover that's a town... all the rest are town-town pairs. And really, I don't understand why you would even be joking about being a lover. The only scenarios that this is possibly beneficial in are if you are mafia, you're the treacherous lover, or you're taking the off chance that your lover is the treacherous lover. That or you aren't a lover and you're just making pointless sarcastic posts...

But this reaction (quoted above) to chihuahua's post is more than a little odd. I'm sure you were aware that there are town-town lover pairs. So the only reason you would think chihuahua's claim is so ridiculous is if you are almost completely assured that "claiming" lover will have no negative effect on you. This leads me to believe you are the treacherous lover.... VOTE: millar13 unless someone convinces me I'm misinterpreting.

[Fidelis]

He definitely deserves death. Even if he isn't mafia, he's still rather anti-town. And as far as getting information goes, we'll probably be better off finding scum without his distractions. I'm still pretty sure he's mafia though...

[Fidelis]

Wait a sec, why does everyone think I didn't vote millar? I did, post #218 (or was it 213? I think 218)... i have some reading to catch up on for now...

[Fidelis]

Ok, so basically what I'm getting is that this whole Xite claim as lover with Millar is probably true... and I would bet alot that Millar is the treacherous lover too, since I was expecting that from his previous actions. This whole thing makes it more likely, and it could be that Millar is denying his lovership with Xite and voting them as a defense against a forced suicide from a Xite lynch.... .

[Fidelis]

Ok, so basically what I'm getting is that this whole Xite claim as lover with Millar is probably true... and I would bet alot that Millar is the treacherous lover too, since I was expecting that from his previous actions. This whole thing makes it more likely, and it could be that Millar is denying his lovership with Xite and voting them as a defense against a forced suicide from a Xite lynch.... .

That last part... Wha?

Yeah you know what forget about that. I tend to think strange things immediately after a run...,
Now, if we lynch millar and he turns up not Xite's lover, then Xite's probably scum for lying, and we can lynch them tomorrow. But now I think lynching Xite is the way to go. If Xite is right, then we kill both Xite and millar in the process (who will probably be scum lover from lying). But if millar is right and Xite is lying, then we kill Xite and still take out a lier. In either case, someone who is lying dies, so
UNVOTE: , VOTE: Xite91

[Fidelis]

Look, Xite, I'm not too tempted to trust you and your "plan" when you currently have a 50% chance of being a liar/scum. How do I know that your plan doesn't benefit scum in some way?

[Fidelis]

So here's why imo a Xite lynch > Millar lynch > chichi lynch. For one thing, we know that at least one of Xite and Millar is lying, so lynching either one of these is preferable to chichi, who we can take care of later given they remain scummy. Also, a Millar lynch isn't guaranteed to lynch a liar, since if Millar is telling the truth, then we just randomly lynched a lover pair.

But, if we lynch Xite and Xite is lying, we killed a liar, and if Xite is telling the truth, then Millar dies and we still kill a liar.

I spaced that out for the benefit of lazy readers that won't see my previous post.

[Fidelis]

Bu-bu-bu, logic! Logic says lynch Xite, and if it's a mislynch, millar dies as scum since he would be Lover! And if it isn't, Xite dies as scum!

Lynching Xite kills scum, therefore!

Thank you! Finally someone else who uses immediate reason.

Because if it benefited scum I would tell you what it is, not telling makes it valid.

That's a bunch of crap. If it benefited scum, you obviously wouldn't tell us, because we would lynch you. No matter what you wouldn't tell us your plan, so I really don't feel inclined to trust someone who is most likely falsely claiming.

[Fidelis]

Didn't you already do that? ^^^ =P

[Fidelis]

Ok, someone put Xite at L-1 so we can hear at least part of his plan. I definitely think he's mostly bs'ing though.

[Fidelis]

Looks like we're waiting on Xite then.

[Fidelis]

So what I got from your (Xite's) plan is you claimed to be a lover to distract the mafia to kill you at night so they didn't get a double kill. I get that, although that's not nearly the grand plan that you were making it out to be before, so I still don't really know if you just made that up on the spot. And plus, why do you want to know who Millar's lover is? It doesn't do us any good to know who it is right now.

And come on chihuahua, if you would have hammered, why not put him at L-1? That doesn't make any sense.

[Fidelis]

ebwop: I forgot that there was a page 20 in my previous post =p

then day 3 I would like millar lynched, by that time I am convinced that if he is still alive he is not town.

A little WiFoM-y, eh? And besides, in this game we can't use that kind of stuff because of the treacherous lover.

And also, Xite, even though your "plan" was protown, I'm not sure if I can trust you now even more than before. Now we know for sure that you are a liar (at least about your role) so I tend to take anything you say now with a few grains of salt. That being said, I still like a Xite lynch, just based on the fact that I personally always lynch liars no matter what their lie was.

[Fidelis]

I also did it because if millar is just playing VI, they might have saved us the trouble of wasting a lynch on him because he might give them a double kill if we in fact were lovers, with that being said, I know I was more likely, but that would have been better than a double kill.

I said it had faults, but I also said I was willing to take the fall for those faults. I stick to my beliefs probably a bit too much and I was sure this would be the best way for me to help town, but alas it backfired.

I only asked because he seemed so eager to tell. I do the same thing with role bread-crumbing. I'm not saying he has to, just that if he feels he needs to then he should. If he feels he doesn't, then why the hell give hints?

Fair enough on all counts. You know, I remember a previous game I was in (not on this site) where I pushed to lynch someone with a similar lie that was going to benefit town. They turned out being town. I have a a feeling that's what's going on here now, so I'll UNVOTE: .

Yes, WIFOM, but within a good reason. but do you mean because that townie might be tied to the treacherous lover? Then didn't millar even say that he'd take the fall for that?
I mean come on, you're saying we cant use that because he might be the poor lover that is in love with scum? Is that a reason not to lynch him?

And my point here was that we can't use the fact that someone is still alive as suspicion, because if they are tied to the treacherous lover then they definitely won't get nk'ed. It's not a reason to not lynch someone, but it can't be used as a case is all I'm saying. We have to keep the possibility in mind.

I don't think Millar is too suspicious right now, he's probably telling the truth imo. And chihuahua is coming off more nooby than scum, so I'm not voting anyone for now.

[Fidelis]

And chihuahua is coming off more nooby than scum, so I'm not voting anyone for now.

how so? please expand on this line of thinking as best you can.

Basically I don't believe that a scum would make so many blatant errors, especially after being called out on them over and over again. I am entertaining the possibility that he is noobscum, but I'm not commital about it. If you want, I can go find more specific examples of what makes me think he's more scum. And just so people know, I'm going to be busy this whole week so I won't be able to get on the computer as much as I'd like.

Thinking it over, I find this to be really scummy though:

Well, while {millar|chihuahua} would be a juicy, crunchy and wholly satisfying lynch (due to the whole clinical insanity thang) I'd prefer to start with Xite.

Vote: Xite

This really strikes a bad chord to me. Since he was lazy and only barely read posts, he is obviously just going with who the majority of players agrees on lynching. He's literally bandwagoning, hoping for an easy kill, without really knowing the reason behind it.

VOTE: Shattered Viewpoint

[Fidelis]

EBWOP:

If you want, I can go find more specific examples of what makes me think he's more scum.

I meant "more noobtown than scum". Sorry, didn't catch that in preview.

[Fidelis]

Bah, you know what, I looked back through the thread to find examples, and he does seem really scummy. VOTE: chihuahua0. I'm going out on a limb here saying this, but the only reason I was kind of sticking up for chihuahua before was because he's my lover and I didn't feel like dying. But I really think he's the most likely candidate for treacherous lover, so I'll gladly be a sacrifice.

[Fidelis]

@Robo:The two deaths in question here are mine and chihuahua's. I bet chihuahua is probably scum, so a one-for-one trade is great for town.

[Fidelis]

Anyways I would like to ask Fidelis if there is anything of interest in the lover quick topic thread (not sure if its against the rules or not as its not a quote) which would help the case against chihuahua.

The Quicktopic is entirely blank. Neither of us posted in it before Day 1 started (I for one didn't know if it was allowed so I didn't risk it.)

And yes, it was statements like that bandwagon one that makes him pretty bad in my eyes. I would like to hear a defense of that and also why he didn't vote for Xite recently when he said he would have been glad to hammer.

[Fidelis]

Sorry I've been somewhat inactive, guys, I'm just really busy until the end of today and then starting again next week. @Wacka I'll give my view of things either late tonight or tomorrow morning.

[Fidelis]

Alright so here are my thoughts on basically everything (in alphabetical order =P).

Chihuahua: You all know my thoughts on him. He’s my lover, but I’m now convinced that he’s scummy. He asked for lovertells in the beginning, OMGUS’s against don, votes millar after millar makes a noobish post but not for all the other reasons to vote millar, and gets worried too much about getting votes on him and seeming like he’s bandwagoning. The worst thing I thought was when he didn’t vote Xite after he said he would’ve… Also, this makes me chuckle a bit:

No lover will sacrafice themselves by stepping forwards. The mafia will kill the lovers, even if it means that the treacherous lover will die in the process.

Irony… So anyways let’s take him out.

Next, DavidParker: not much here, you replaced not too long ago. He didn’t do quite as in-depth an analysis as the other replacements, which could either be a mark of laziness or scumminess.

Don_Johnson: this surprised me when I ISO’ed him. He never actually posted much content, it was just a lot of sarcasm and pushing ridiculously hard for a chichi lynch. Although I have to say I agreed with him on that basically the whole game, but I didn’t want to lynch chichi for obvious reasons, and there wasn’t overwhelming evidence yet.

Enigma: Is doing a fine job as a replacement. Nothing on him.

Millar: so much to talk about here, but you already know most of it. My opinion of millar is that he was just being really strange early in the game, and has been struggling the whole game to rise above that reputation. I personally don’t think he’s as scummy as some others.

More will come a bit later after I eat.

[Fidelis]

Ok so here’s more thoughts:

Mr.Sandman: He hasn’t posted all that much, but he does have some good opinions and seems to contribute. Nothing scummy I think.

Pittbunny sends me mixed signals. Most of his posts are basically contentless criticisms of other players. Then once the XMR triangle sprung up and captured everyone’s attention, he started discussing things quite a bit more. This could be scummy tendencies? To post non-controversial things when town is on the hunt and then to come out and say your opinion when we’re focusing on someone else in particular… I’d give him more attention than has been given so far.

Robo: I don’t see why so many people are up in arms about Robo. He’s never struck me as being terribly scummy, he’s been making sense and pushing for lynches of players that do seem scummy. And it never seemed like he was just bandwagoning either… the worst thing he’s done is changed his avatar to a Pokemon.

Sanxion barely posts. I’d like to see more activity there…

Shattered viewpoint just struck me as somewhat insane until his last two posts. He misread something in the thread, but still acted convinced enough by what he read to put a vote on Xite. SCUM! And @Shattered's post above this, posting content seems a little rare for you, I would love to see some though.

SSS doesn’t post, like ever….

Switz is posting a ridiculous amount of content for a replacement in such a confusing game. I say he’s leaning town.

Wacka has been doing some quality scumhunting. Even though sometimes we have different opinions on how to go about it, he does contribute quite a bit to town.

Xite… oh dear god. So the entire “plan” thing makes me itch about him. But that’s also a result of my former policy of lynching liars. He’s managed to convince me that his ploy was probably protown, and he was just being a lying trickster if not a scum… However, in the very beginning of the plan, he suggested systematically lynching the lovers. TERRIBLE IDEA! This puts him on my scummy list.

Yabbaguy is fine with me. He at least posts reasons for all of his votes and unvotes.

Youngminii has had one post that didn’t include a vote or an unvote. God I hate inactives.

Zajnet you never explained your actions like you said you would…. Meh.

Zerofang posts a lot of content as well, he’s fine with me.

[Fidelis]

Sorry about the double post, but the above post had a natural ending point. So assuming we're going through with the lynch of chihuahua and I today, my last advice would be to keep a close eye on Shattered, Pittbunny, and Xite in the future. If Shattered or Xite flare up as scummy again, lynch them! Don't let plausible scum escape more than once. And pay closer attention to don. He doesn't strike me as too scummy, but he is very single-minded in his posts. Other than that, good hunting! Let's lynch this treacherous dog!

[Fidelis]

Yes! My sacrifice was not in vain! Way to go town.