Mad World: Time Travel Mafia (Game Over)

[TheLonging]

We are allowed to post during Twilight right? Just making sure.

[TheLonging]

Vote: Tasky

It's basically RVS, he can change his mind. Your logic is a bit flawed eh?

Also sorry for confusing people. I simply meant to ask mod if we can still post in Twilight after someone is lynched. I also don't like voting in RVS because I find RVS pointless (only as a means for us to get to the next stepping stone after about 20 random votes. That's why I perfer to vote when I can find something close to a legitimate vote at this stage).

[TheLonging]

I have to admit, I lol'd at that pic.

[TheLonging]

At this point, Tasky seems like a reasonable vote

[TheLonging]

I was going to ask you about this, but then decided against it because it concerns an ongoing game, which you shouldn't talk about. However, I find it very odd you are using an ongoing game you just started to justify wagoning a player. His playstyle seeming "suspicious" in one game doesn't implicate him as scum in this one.

So, basically, do you find his play to be suspicious in this game or what?

I guess he's trying to base it off the fact that he's contradicting himself/meta, which I can't really see (the meta part anyways), and for the contradicting thing, we should only use this game as a basis, not others (especially ongoing)

[TheLonging]

I don't rely on meta cause I've played too many games where meta basically helped town lose.

[TheLonging]

L-4 on page two seems just a

little

excessive on page 2, doesn't it? I'll hold my vote until we hear from Tasky.

I don't think it is. Double-standards are very anti-town. Anyways when Tasky gets back I'll decide if my vote should stay

[TheLonging]

Of my prob scumbags, here is the post I dislike the most:

Vote: Tasky

It's basically RVS, he can change his mind. Your logic is a bit flawed eh?

Also sorry for confusing people. I simply meant to ask mod if we can still post in Twilight after someone is lynched. I also don't like voting in RVS because I find RVS pointless (only as a means for us to get to the next stepping stone after about 20 random votes. That's why I perfer to vote when I can find something close to a legitimate vote at this stage).

First, Tasky reasoning to vote Seraphim is very likely joke reasoning. I dont like how Longing is pretending this to be a serious reason in page 1. Second, I dont like the apologetic tone too soon, feels calculated to appeal the masses. And finally I dont get why is important for her posting in Twilight after someone is lynched???

I think this is the best vote atm.

Vote: The Longing.

Let's go from top to bottom! Yay!

It may have been, but if anything, it wasn't that serious of a vote; just to get him to talk a bit more. His next post seemed somewhat serious to me, which is why I still kept my vote on. Second, I apologized for people thinking it was confirmation/twilight stage, nothing to do with appeal to the masses, although if that's what you want to look into <_< And third, I'm a he. Forth, I was asking because pretty much every game I've played in we couldn't post in Twilight so I was just asking.

[TheLonging]

Vote: TheLonging

Looks like scum to me.

How about this, find reasons for you finding me scum, then it won't be as sheepy as this shows.

[TheLonging]

Karma: My vote on TL is Mostly gut but I'm thinking of going for Zang. You make a good case.

Nice responding to me without directly responding to me. I understand gut but that's not the feeling I got when you made your original vote.

UNVOTE: Tasky

[TheLonging]

Let's go from top to bottom! Yay!
It may have been, but if anything, it wasn't that serious of a vote; just to get him to talk a bit more. His next post seemed somewhat serious to me, which is why I still kept my vote on. Second, I apologized for people thinking it was confirmation/twilight stage, nothing to do with appeal to the masses, although if that's what you want to look into <_< And third, I'm a he. Forth, I was asking because pretty much every game I've played in we couldn't post in Twilight so I was just asking.

Yep, the Longing is scum.

Alright, if you say so Master Overlord

First, the "lets go from top to bottom! yay!" is very very scummy. Townies facing an attack dont get excited for being attacked. Only scumbags trying to appear relaxed when being attacked could post something like that.

You clearly don't know me then, as I joke around in pretty much every game I am, regardless of alignment, though I can see how you think that would be a scumtell.

Second, your reasons are BS. How is his next post after your vote somewhat serious??? It was this post!!!:

*image*

UNVOTE: Seraphim
VOTE: ReaperCharlie

for posting stupid/funny pictures

That's not the post I was talking about.

Confirm Vote: The Longing.

Alright, first of all,

I don't rely on meta cause I've played too many games where meta basically helped town lose.

If you rely on meta completely, you will lose. But it can be a helpful tool if applied correctly(which is it often not).

I think I know what you're getting at here, but where does it help? Pretty much every game I've been in where someone says "omgmetalynch" on a player, that player had consistent metaplay regardless of alignment/setup/game. I basically don't even like to consider it in save for a few exceptions (namely saying someone isn't scum based on meta because of consistent scummy meta etc. Might be but I've seen that play far too often.)

Also, Longing is scummy for the bolded:

I don't think it is.

Double-standards are very anti-town.

Anyways when Tasky gets back I'll decide if my vote should stay.

Double-standards aren't necessarily anti-town, or even scummy really. especially in the context it was used in, the RVS, it hardly matters at all.

Double standards are indeed anti-town. I've seen stuff like that happen before even in the RVS, caused by scum.

ckd: It didn't look like a gut vote to me, it looked like he voted me and had reasons, but he forgot to include the part where he put in his reasons. That's what I got from it.

[TheLonging]

EBWOP: That's to Karma, not to ckd.

[TheLonging]

Alright I won't do that quote thing, it's just natural of me to respond to large blocks of text like that.

Confused his post with another poster's that was actually serious, therefore I am in the wrong (I just checked btw).

Eh, I've seen it happen so much more often with scum.

No I don't necessarily find him scummy for making the gut vote, but it didn't read like a gut vote to me so I asked him what his seasonings for it.

[TheLonging]

I approve of the case on The Longing. Especially with Anon's analysis of The Longing's defense post in #127.

Vote The Longing

Did you even read my response to it?

Confused his post with another poster's that was actually serious, therefore I am in the wrong (I just checked btw).

Which poster was it?

Eh, I've seen it happen so much more often with scum.

Links/examples please.

In the other game I just started with you, you changed your vote 4 times within the first half of the day (real time) and got very defensive about it. Something very suspicious about your play style.

Granted, I was skimming over the thread quickly, and his post was right under Tasky's, so I mistook his post for Tasky's post. Say what you want, but I did miss his vote on Tasky. (For what it's worth, my original post "Tasky is a good vote" or whatever was ment to get a reaction from Tasky, which I did not succeed in.)

http://www.scorehero.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=100099

^A mild example of it done by some of the scum members.

http://www.scorehero.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=102172

^Scumteam lurked their way to victory, in addition to them also double-standardizing.

[TheLonging]

Yeah they were offsite, though they were the best examples I can find

[TheLonging]

Hey, Reaper, I gave you an avatar, get your ass on the theLonging wagon.

I agree, especially since Sera has convinced himself he never needs to think about anything else I post, the stuff I posted before he made his vote was such a well-made case that we can ignore my new posts.

[TheLonging]

Hey, Reaper, I gave you an avatar, get your ass on the theLonging wagon.

I agree, especially since Sera has convinced himself he never needs to think about anything else I post, the stuff I posted before he made his vote was such a well-made case that we can ignore my new posts.

You agree that I should get on your wagon? 0_o

My sarcasm.

It bleeds.

[TheLonging]

Alright, now for theLonging. I read your response, and I find you scummy for completely different reasons. If you want to play the sarcasm game, go ahead. It just gets me angrier.

Let's start this up, then. First of all, you seem to use a lot of personal attacks when defending yourself. This is a very clever tactic to attempt to downplay your attackers' "cred" when facing you.

Examples:

Alright, if you say so Master Overlord

How about this, find reasons for you finding me scum, then it won't be as sheepy as this shows.

I agree, especially since Sera has convinced himself he never needs to think about anything else I post, the stuff I posted before he made his vote was such a well-made case that we can ignore my new posts.

Secondly:

You clearly don't know me then, as I joke around in pretty much every game I am, regardless of alignment, though I can see how you think that would be a scumtell.

For someone who claims to dislike meta, it's odd that you'd use self-meta here. I always joke around as town and scum!

Double-standard, BTW. Other people can't meta other players but I can use meta to defend myself.

And, in fact, pushing double standards being so evil and then using double-standards yourself IS ALSO A DOUBLESTANDARD. HOLY FUCKING SHIT THEY'RE EVERYWHERE.

OK then, I won't use sarcasm on purpose. I'll just use it naturally.

1st Quote was indeed an attack, will not deny. 2nd quote wasn't an attack, rather it was asking him to find examples of me being scum, because it looked like he was sheeping. 3rd quote was also an attack, but I threw in more sarcasm.

I didn't claim that it would make me town or scum, and it's not really self-meta because he thought joking around was a scum tell. If anything, it's a null-tell because I know a whole lot of players who joke around regardless of alignment that I can't even think of it as a tell anymore. Was it really a double standard? Am I still using a double standard? Also that last line made me laugh, thanks.

[TheLonging]

Another thing for Sera: I hate using meta as the sole reasoning for calling someone town/scum. Gut feelings are also different from meta, like how I have a gut feeling ckd is town. I only refer to meta when the difference between someone's town play and someone's scum play is drastic. Not when it's sort of off, and even then, I don't use meta solely to build a case, but rather, a small nugget of it.

[TheLonging]

Tasky for pushing on ckd for very minor/irrelevant reasons, RC for not posting much useful content. That's top 2, but I'd rather hear from more over time.

[TheLonging]

Tasky for pushing on ckd for very minor/irrelevant reasons

do you find it minor/irrelevant that CKD got so sure about someone being scum, that he even crowned himself "mafia catcher", and then unvotes because he is V/LA?
If I were V/LA I'd unvote if I'd fear that while I'm away that person could be lynched using my vote without me wanting that... but didn't CKD really want to lynch gandalf?
or at least that's what I had got from this post:

Got ya...and in 4 pages too. (feel free to nominate me on mafia catcher after the game is done).

and then, how could he be so sure somebody is scum if he was only "skimming and hadn't read thoroughly"... (quoted from this post)

About the V/LA thing, before I move on to your other points: If I was V/LA for any time, I'd unvote because a lot of stuff would happen in my absence, so I'd find it natural to unvote. If I was suspicious of someone, they might do something to change my mind, and what if a bandwagon starts that gets out of hand/

"reassuming it was the fact that he unvoted after being 100%-sure and the only thing which had changed was the notion of razorback not being a gorilla but a human..."

^I didn't quite understand that, I interpreted it as a reason for pushing the ckd vote even more, which IS minor. gandalf insulted (or tried to) ckd, and ckd/gandalf did have flawed logic (being somewhat sure in a vote based on a vibe, gandalf assuming that a vote based on a vibe is 100% serious) (whether or not that was intentional I have no idea), and ckd jumped on it I guess. It's not that scummy as it is null/being ooverconfident.

Will respond to diginova's post after lunch

[TheLonging]

In Iso0, TheLonging's question about posting in twilight is odd. The main beneficiaries of not being able to post in twilight are scum, as they can just quickhammer and prevent discussion about how the power roles should act / prevent additional discussion that could out them.

In Iso1, he states he doesn't like the RVS and takes a single small point and votes Tasky. However, he then keeps on this vote, constantly saying that it's a good idea without giving any additional reasons up through Iso6.

I think the main issue going on is TheLonging trying to add snark to his comments such as the "if you say so Master Overlord" and the constant joking. It seems like the constant joking is trying to hide actual thoughts that may seem scummy in a layer of misdirection. The sarcasm doesn't help town as it causes confusion and deniability as to whether or not you are serious at any point in the game.

In Iso18, he states that he doesn't vote using meta as the sole reasoning, but gut feelings are different. Gut feelings are actually at best a form of meta, especially if you've played with them before, and at worst detrimental to successful scumhunting. As you showed with your Tasky vote, you had a gut feeling initially and that caused you to continue claiming scum without giving any new information. It's hard once you get an idea in your head to move away from it, as shown with your continuation of Tasky as a main suspect based on the same minor point of the push of ckd.

TheLonging, you got my vote.

Vote: TheLonging

Thus, following up on 207, I would change the target to TheLonging, though I would still have hesitation to shoot as it's only Day 1 and there hasn't been too much useful information put on the table.

Iso0: I'm not bothering to respond to that because it's so out of there, and you're clearly not thinking of what I was going for with it (see I doubt it's response)

Iso1: I generally don't like the RVS, overall, because it's basically (in my case) vote randomly for up to 10 pages (yes I was in a game with RVS lasting for 10 pages. Scum got away nicely in that) before someone makes a vote that's somewhat serious. In that case, I pushed it for a minor reason to see how he would respond, but I gave up on it partway and didn't really care, then Anon comes in and pushes a case on me that's mostly BS.

Iso18 doesn't even seem like a reason. Gut feelings for me are different, I don't associate them from meta. I guess meta is unavoidable, I just don't like using it as much as I can for past stated reasons.

Also with the snark/joke things: I can't really defend myself there, it's how I play like it or not, I brought it in on this game, bad move apparently. I'll stop from doing it on purpose, because clearly people are getting annoyed. For example, I was gonna make a snarky comment about Anon's ego, but I'll stop myself.

[TheLonging]

I have, you just missed it apparently.

V/LA until Friday, maybe Saturday.

[TheLonging]

I have, you just missed it apparently.

V/LA until Friday, maybe Saturday.

Would you care to point out where, rather than being dismissive and unhelpful.

TheLonging has started to read a lot like caught scum who has lost interest in self-defence. While I normally expect the first couple of wagons out of RVS to fall apart based to the inherent weakness of them, TL's case has only gotten stronger. I like to lynch the centre of attention D1, because a flip on that player will usually give us reads on more players than anyone else. Combining scummy with centre gives us the easy choice:

unvote, vote:TheLonging

Has to do with law enforcement actually, I'm getting hardly ANY time today, no time tomorrow through Friday (maybe), and then I'm sure I'll be back Saturday.

Because I'm gone for that long:

I'm John Anderton from Minority Report, I'm a non-time traveler, my abilitiy is Fugitive (innate), and I'm a miller. I'm practically more useless than a regular VT.

[TheLonging]

Bah.