Mini 980 - Trader Mafia (Game Over)

[SaintKerrigan]

Okay, for the newer guys out there, I just want to make one thing clear:

Both mafia groups can daytalk. This gives each group an

infinitely

greater ability to coordinate their actions during the day and can lead to some insane strategies. Look up the recently-ended Mini 975 if you want an example of this. In other words: be extra, extra vigilant.

With that out of the way, let's get down to business...

[SaintKerrigan]

##Vote: Jack

He himself agrees that he's scum. >_>

[SaintKerrigan]

Mod: Is there a reason for not using commas to separate people's names in the vote counts? Because it would be nice if there were.

[SaintKerrigan]

##vote: SaintKerrigan
Where are you during this discussion and thought process?

Not around/doing other things.

@ Flashstorm: As Jack implied, the strategy fails because scum can put said official over $999 and remove that player from the game. If your strategy actually broke the game for town, I would refuse to comply with it because it makes the game not fun or fair (and I'm saying this as town).

[SaintKerrigan]

##Unvote: Jack
##Vote: Flashstorm

because the double voter is on Jack (putting him at L-2) and I definitely don't want to lynch Jack right now. Since I can't simply unvote, my vote's going on someone who doesn't have any. (I picked Flash because of his plan. When I find someone that's actually scummy I'll move my vote to him.)

Meanwhile,

V/LA from playing games from today until early Saturday morning. I'll still be around for modding, but that's it.

[SaintKerrigan]

Ok, will be rereading this game (as well as others) today. Don't expect me to give my thoughts immediate presto, but I'll try hard to have something before the RL day ends.

[SaintKerrigan]

First of all, if a Townie has the Investigation Immune ability, please claim it now. You may not automatically believed to be town, but since the only reason a townie should have II anyway is to keep it out of scum's hands, there's no reason for you not to claim having it. If no one owns up to having II, it's very likely that whoever took it was scum.

(And if you're worried about getting NKed and giving the ability right back to the scum, consider this: scum are very likely low on cash/in debt due to attempts to grab other items. If they haven't already borrowed their limit, they'll have to borrow more money to take the II ability, which will hinder them in paying off their other debts, and will most likely result in the scum going bankrupt, forcing a sale of II and giving us a very clear idea as to one of the scum. If you're just afraid of dying period, then that's being anti-town.)

I don't get why Zaj thinks scum wouldn't go for the DV, considering it went for a very low price. I might've thought that was a DV breadcrumb, but Zaj wasn't on the Jack wagon so he can't be it (also because I know from future reading that Jack is the DV).

On the off hand, I also don't see why Fishy thinks scum would buy the ability more than town. In my opinion, the act of buying the DV is a null tell. The explanation he gives a bit later does nothing to illuminate this.

Zang has obviously never played with Haylen before. Self-voting in the RVS is not a scumtell, and I'm not even sure that it's a scumtell outside the RVS. Town have been known to do it.

I'm starting to get an uneasy feeling about Andrius' posts.

Oh hey, it's SPS. How much has he posted? Not a lot. (Yeah, I'm one to talk, but I was on V/LA, so I had an excuse for that.)

Jack's remark about VV is intriguing. Will be interested to see how VV responds.

Jack's 163 brings a good point against VV.

I'm still waiting to see anything town from SK who is posting nothing at all this game.

Hello? I posted a V/LA notice in this thread, as well as several other places. Pay attention, please.

SPS's vote hop is setting off my scumdar, especially when his first attempt was wrong and he corrected it by jumping on the actual larger bandwagon. Voting for bandwagoning's sake in RVS is one thing. Doing it post-RVS is something else entirely.

Zaj's VV vote is /facepalm territory. You aren't supposed to say it's a pressure vote, or it tends to ruin the effect.

VV's attempt to mount a Jack wagon is fail. Very OMGUSy.

Oh, a Flashstorm post. What has he done beyond his "game-breaking" strategy? Nothing.

VV further fails at providing good reasons why Jack is actually scum.

@Fish: "Talking about mechanics" is a gerund phrase, which makes it a noun, then the verb 'don't' refers to the discussion, not the mechanics.

If you read it this way:
Not really interested in

talking about

mechanics

that

don't really matter/apply yet.
Then what is the bolded part, hm?

So obviously it's meant to be read this way:
Not really interested in

talking about mechanics

that

don't

really matter/apply yet.
Red = Noun
Blue = Verb.

This is so bloody ridiculous and scummy. There is no way in hell anyone with a decent grasp of English would legitimately read your sentence as described in the second example.

To explain it grammatically: "talking about mechanics" is not the subject of the sentence; rather, it is the omitted word "I'm," which should be at the beginning of the sentence. Therefore, the main subject is "I" and the main verb is "am not interested". What comes afterwords is a description of what you aren't interested in; namely, "talking about mechanics that don't really matter/apply yet". To elaborate:

- What aren't you interested in? ("talking")
- What aren't you interested in talking about? ("mechanics")
- What kind of mechanics? ("that don't really matter/apply yet")

Trying to use false wordsmithing to say you meant something other than what you said is extremely scummy. I would vote you for this, in addition to the other things I've mentioned, but you're at L-1 and I'm not sure it's time to end the day yet.

And btw, I totally do not believe you when you claim you made a mistake. If you were knowledgeable enough of the English language to try and make an argument like that, there's no way you would've goofed on writing a sentence that comes out meaning something completely different from what you intended to say.

So, VasudeVa is #1 on my suspect list. The only reason I'm not voting him is because my vote lynches VV, and I don't think it's time for that yet.

Other suspects are Andrius, SPS, and Flashstorm. Everyone else is neutral or town.

##Unvote: Flashstorm
##Vote: Andrius

This'll do until lynch-time.

[SaintKerrigan]

flashstorm was replaced in another game I noticed.

Hmm, that may mean he's just flaking out. Guess we'll find out soon enough.

[SaintKerrigan]

I like the latter part. Makes somewhat sense. But then again it a deterrant to making a really good case, because you don't have to convince that other person.

So what is it exactly that you're trying to say with this?

Uneasy like how I feel when I stare at your avatar, or uneasy like you're going to puke your guts out after your first college party?
Because feeling "uneasy" makes me want to facepalm.

Uneasy like your posts have a scummy feel to them. Plus internal thinking about certain things you've said and how it applies to game mechanics. Considering I'm voting you, though, shouldn't you have been able to figure out somewhat what I meant by "uneasy"?

BTW, GUYS, I WAS SERIOUS ABOUT CLAIMING IF YOU HAVE INVESTIGATION IMMUNITY. POSTING IN LARGE, BOLD LETTERS SO NO ONE CAN SAY THEY MISSED IT.

[SaintKerrigan]

Note the sig. Also, you could check my wiki and ISO me and see the semi-bad engrish(at least, that's how I perceive it.). How is defending my sentence, which due to a mistake came out wrong, scummy?Why do you think I'm lying about making a mistake?

Because you tried to prove your interpretation of the sentence was correct, and only admitted that it was a mistake after it was clearly shown that you were wrong. The fact that your "mistake" just so happens to also be good English, but with a different meaning, doesn't make your story all that believable, either.

Also note: In the heat of all the mechanics discussion, Why would I openly claim in thread that the mechanics don't apply yet when they obviously do?

Because you'd been voted for being too quiet, so you had to say

something

. However, you were afraid that participating in the current discussion would give away your ulterior motives, so you simply dismissed the mechanics as "unimportant", in addition to saying a few other trivial things to appear like you weren't lurking scum.

[SaintKerrigan]

Why isn't it obvious that I'm town yet? (I would explain, but it would be better if you find out for yourselves.)

Because you're scum?

[SaintKerrigan]

I already said I'm not voting you because I don't feel it's time for that yet. I'd rather have some discussion first. Nice try, though.

[SaintKerrigan]

@ Farside: Pay attention. I said the person with Investigation Immunity should reveal themselves, not the Cop. Seriously, first you miss the post saying I'm V/LA and call me scummy for not posting, now for some reason you think I said the Cop should reveal himself when I never said that. What's going on here?

My vote is on Andrius because his posts feel scummy to me, but my top suspect is VV (who I'm not voting until a majority of us are ready to end the day).

[SaintKerrigan]

EBWOP: I said "themselves" instead of "himself". Late night writing ftw.

[SaintKerrigan]

You are ignoring my post btw.

To reiterate:

Why would I say that the mechanics do not matter? Quite important if you're seriously considering that I'm lying.

Because you'd been voted for being too quiet, so you had to say something. However, you were afraid that participating in the current discussion would give away your ulterior motives, so you simply dismissed the mechanics as "unimportant", in addition to saying a few other trivial things to appear like you weren't lurking scum.

And because I missed responding to this earlier:

1.That, or I could not have known the error I did until it was clearly pointed out to me. I don't disagree with you that it is good english. The main problem is it did not say what I wanted it to say.

How is it scummy that I was trying to make my point clear until the error of my ways have been pointed out? Of course, it's scummy to lie...but see here the message you have gotten from that sentence doesn't make sense (see cont.).

Because I don't believe you actually made an honest mistake.

2.That, or I could have just megalurked like you did(you're not getting away with that BTW.) until the wagon was actually threatening. But I chose to post.[/quote]

V/LA from playing games from today until early

Saturday

Sunday morning. I'll still be around for modding, but that's it.

And why would I post that the mechanics don't apply yet? It's just stupid to say that, since the mechanics DO apply.

Because you didn't realize how serious a goof it was until people called you out on it.

So, accdg. to you, because I was apparently being too quiet, I needed to post something that blatantly contradicts whatever is happening in the game? Makes no sense.

Scum trip up when they have to quick-post something to avoid the appearance of lurking.

[SaintKerrigan]

Failed tags...

2.That, or I could have just megalurked like you did(you're not getting away with that BTW.) until the wagon was actually threatening. But I chose to post.

V/LA from playing games from today until early Saturday Sunday morning. I'll still be around for modding, but that's it.

[SaintKerrigan]

Goddammit...

V/LA from playing games from today until early

Saturday

Sunday morning. I'll still be around for modding, but that's it.

[SaintKerrigan]

StK, it makes no sense that you are 'convinced' that Vas is scum yet you refuse to vote. Clarify, please? You also have a list of "other" scum. Please, which is most likely out of that list to be paired with VV?

Dear. Fucking. God. I have only said this

at least

three times,

if

not more. How the hell did you miss this?

I AM NOT VOTING VASUDEVA BECAUSE HE IS AT L-1 AND I WOULD LIKE SOME MORE DISCUSSION BEFORE WE LYNCH HIM! HOW MANY FUCKING TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY THIS?!

Ok, now there should be absolutely

no

reason people should miss this now. Meaning: if I get asked this question again I am going to bust some skulls. Severely. Got it?/rant

Also, everyone who has commented on this issue so far has read that sentence differently from VV's claimed meaning, and they have all been in agreement on what they thought it meant. How is it that you read it like VV claimed it was supposed to be read? (Meaning: I'm wondering scumbuddy trying to derail the wagon/scum trying to look good if VV somehow flips town.)

Also, I don't particularly hunt buddies when we don't have flips. If I see something obvious I'll point it out, but lining up scumbuddies doesn't mean as much when we haven't had a scumflip yet. (That being said, you've made yourself rather conspicuous, defending VV and going against the grain on the grammar issue.)

[SaintKerrigan]

Of course, I tried to defend my mistake because

I did not know that I meant another thing

and even suspected Fish for twisting my words.

This, I can accept, is a grammar mistake. The other one, much less so.

Also, of course you'd say the mechanics apply now, after people have been harping on you about it.

This, btw, should be why I'm obv town right about now. I've been at L-1 for a while you know.

Only because I want some more discussion. You're living on borrowed time...

[SaintKerrigan]

You didn't realize just how unpopular that opinion would be.

Jack specifically voted you for not posting. When scum get votes like that, they tend to want to post something to avoid drawing more lurkervotes.

[SaintKerrigan]

StK, I did NOT MISS YOUR HUGE BOLD SENTENCE. I just think that 'convinced' along with 'not voting' is suspicious. Period.

Nuh uh. Being convinced someone is scum and not voting them is scummy, yes, unless the person has a good reason not to. In this case, I do have a good reason to not vote VV yet.

FoS: Nobody Special

I'm also doubting your explanation regarding the grammar stuff. If VV knows enough to try and spin "talking about mechanics" as a gerund phrase, he definitely should know enough about English to realize how that sentence reads to people who understand English fluently.

[SaintKerrigan]

Was rereading and found this:

VV is scum.

##vote:VasudeVa

Why did it take so long to vote VV, Jack?

[SaintKerrigan]

@ Jack: Ok

@ VV: No one is infallible. I just think you're using your lack of knowledge about the English language to excuse yourself from this fault.

[SaintKerrigan]

@ VV: Because what you said got you in hot water.

[SaintKerrigan]

##Unvote: Andrius
Vote: Farside22

I'll dig this for now.

[SaintKerrigan]

##Vote: Farside22

[SaintKerrigan]

@ VV: Because what you said got you in hot water.

that could come from both town and scum to avoid being (mis)lynched.

Because I don't believe you actually made an honest mistake.

[SaintKerrigan]

Vote: Steam-Powered Shovel

(Yes, this wasn't a real vote.)

[SaintKerrigan]

##Unvote: Farside22
##Vote: VasudeVa

I forgot that Farside was going to be less active in general. My missing that makes me less wary about her missing things that I said. Vote's now going on VV since he isn't at L-1.

@ Fishy: I saw an opportunity to try and get some info from Farside and I took it.

[SaintKerrigan]

FoS: Zang

[SaintKerrigan]

##Confirm Vote: VasudeVa

@ Andrius: We're lynching VV today (barring other epic claims of scumtastity), but don't worry, we'll come 'round for you tomorrow...

[SaintKerrigan]

Explain to me why we should lynch Andrius over VV today?

[SaintKerrigan]

Explain to me why we should lynch Andrius over VV today?

He's scummier, see that totally fake bit I quoted. Totally fake scumhunting = mafia every time.

Right. I guess VV can wait until tomorrow (as much as I'd still like to lynch him today).

##Unvote: VasudeVa
##Vote: Andrius

[SaintKerrigan]

@ AGM: Andrius is also one of my higher suspects. That's why I'm willing to lynch him now over VV and save VV for a later day.

[SaintKerrigan]

SaintKerrigan's vote was highly scummy because he followed Jack saying "I'll dig this for now".

AKA "Zomg SK didn't provide a 'good' reason for his vote, he must be scummiez." I do believe I explained later that the vote was to try and get information.

He also followed Jack onto my lynch.

Conveniently leaving out the part where you were already a high suspect on my list and I was in fact voting you in lieu of VV earlier. Personally, I think both of you need to find a noose, and it doesn't really matter which of you two finds it first.

Sometimes I say stupid things to see what people will do afterwards/ see how they will react. I said I agreed with the wagon so I could see if the people who were already voting farside would jump onto me.

And you expected people to

not

vote you for this? Say something stupid was "intentional" doesn't make it any less stupid, or less vote-worthy. Put another way: you're reaping what you've sown.

You can however, vote SK and appease me for a brownie point. (Not redeemable for townie points. Reedemable for brownies.)

And yet you don't extend me the same offer. Favoritism for a scumbuddy, eh?

It allows to me to watch suspicious players like VV, Jack, SK and see what they do. Naturally, VV votes me. Jack votes me. SK follows Jack. Why? We will find out.

I'm sorry, did you say you

learned

something from that?

Also, meta-cases are so lame. Lrn2scumhunt, plz.

[SaintKerrigan]

##Vote: Andrius

Andrius, claim any and all abilities you possess. Now.

[SaintKerrigan]

So why are you surprised that Jack is town, Zaj? You said yourself that the Double Voter (aka Jack) was likely town. Where did this sudden alleviation of suspicion come from?

Why do you want to lynch Andrius?

[SaintKerrigan]

I'm not surprised that Jack is town. I'm surprised that he's town given that VV is scum, which I found unlikely to begin with.

Wait a minute. You're surprised Jack is town because VV flipped

scum

? *dot dot dot*

I want to see where today goes. Andrius is our best lead from D1, so I'm voting him for now.

And yet you have no suspicion of him from Day 1.

FoS: Zajnet

Zang is also uber lurking and needs to get his ass back in here and contribute.

[SaintKerrigan]

Ninja'd by the creepy av dude.

*sends Zerglings to nomnomnom your body*

[SaintKerrigan]

Also, more contribution from you would be great as well, NS.

Why were you convinced yesterday that Andrius is scum, and yet you haven't voted for him yet today?

[SaintKerrigan]

And, why pick Zang out of all the players to call out on not posting?

Because he's not only not posting much, I've found his posts highly lacking in scumhuntingness. This is a big red flag that he might be scum.

Might you give a reason why you're positive that Andrius is scum? Because I've yet to see one from you.

[SaintKerrigan]

That was a typo, it was supposed to say I'm surprised that Jack flipped town given that VV flipped

town

.

I figured, but getting you to say it means there's no confusion about it.

Now that that's all cleared up, please tell me why you thought that one of VV or Jack had to be scum.

[SaintKerrigan]

The discussion between them gave me a gut feeling that one of them was scum. I don't know how to explain it, but it just felt that way.

You made absolutely no mention of this yesterday. You didn't even mention any hint that you thought Jack might be scum. Why is this coming to light now?

[SaintKerrigan]

Any reason in particular for the vote, SPS?

@ NS: I disagree with all of your reasons for voting Andrius. They look contrived.

FoS: Nobody Special

[SaintKerrigan]

289 and 290.

Why do these two posts make me scummy?

[SaintKerrigan]

@ Andrius: I know you have one of the other roles from yesterday. At the very least I'd like you to confirm that. If you tell me which role you have it may help to determine whether you're innocent or not.

Addendum: why FoS me instead of vote me?

@ Zang: Same question above goes to you.

@ NS: You can go look up my posts for specifics, but it boils down to a scummy feeling about his posts, false scumhunting, and internal investigation.

@ SPS: I already explained that my Farside vote was for reaction-hunting purposes. Once she reacted I unvoted her. Pay attention, please.

I have no clue how 290 constitutes a reason to vote me, so elaboration on that would be good.

Zang is not helping rid himself of the lurkerscum image I have of him.

He's been very vocal and pretty convincing in his defense, but otherwise posting a lot while doing very little looks like under-the-radar scum to me.

Are you referring to Andrius or Nobody Special here? Either way, please expound on this.

[SaintKerrigan]

Oh hey easjo

[SaintKerrigan]

He's been very vocal and pretty convincing in his defense, but otherwise posting a lot while doing very little looks like under-the-radar scum to me.

Are you referring to Andrius or Nobody Special here? Either way, please expound on this.

Andrius. He's used a lot of words to do very little in this game, and I think that comes from scum more than town - scum want to look like they are a contribution, but have less motivation to actually scumhunt..

Ok, I agree.

[SaintKerrigan]

Hi guys, currently dealing with getting my own modded game back online, stand by.

[SaintKerrigan]

I am aware of your attempt at revisionism.

Your narrow, one-sided point of view is not my problem, I'm afraid. At least explain why your explanation is better than mine.

Context. For more context, you could consider Jack's post 294.

Your point is still as obfuscated as it was before.

Did you say you had a case on me, by the way?

[SaintKerrigan]

Last chance to claim you have a role pricier than $100, Andrius. Otherwise I'll tell the town why I'm positive you have one and how your unwillingness to admit that makes you more suspicious.

[SaintKerrigan]

EBWOP: Also, you can easily vote me and still ponder your other suspects. It's not that hard, Andrius. I did it today. You can, too.

[SaintKerrigan]

EBWOPx2: I didn't vote myself, but you know what I meant by the statement.

[SaintKerrigan]

##Unvote: Andrius
##Vote: Zang

Andrius confirming he has a role makes him more likely to be town. Moving on to the lurking man with the empty words.

[SaintKerrigan]

If you are scum and someone says to you, "If you do not claim PR, I will unleash a case against you," what do you do?

You claim PR. And, because you started with a lot of money, you probably have one. So you can't even be called out for lying later.

Mission: Accomplish Nothing: Accomplished.

Wrong, actually. There is one role I'm positive Andrius is not, and it's one of the roles that is definitely in scum hands. Of the remaining five roles, I think two of them are in scum hands. Thus, mathematically Andrius has a 40% chance of being scum. I could still lynch on those odds, but there's other people that need my attention right now, so they're getting it.

Your point is still as obfuscated as it was before.

Yeah you're right I suck but I still won't explain it anyway.

Fixed!

No, I implied it.

Can you show me where you implied it, then? I'm totally not seeing it.

No, it does not. Want to come up with a better reason for ditching the Andriuswagon?

Because other people deserve my attention more right now? Also, you're wrong. See response to AlmasterGM.

[SaintKerrigan]

Wrong, actually. There is one role I'm positive Andrius is not, and it's one of the roles that is definitely in scum hands. Of the remaining five roles, I think two of them are in scum hands. Thus, mathematically Andrius has a 40% chance of being scum. I could still lynch on those odds, but there's other people that need my attention right now, so they're getting it.

You are completely avoiding the question. Fine, we now have some "40% chance of scum" number (which isn't even actually mathematical legitimate because it is based on what you "think" and not actual number crunching). You don't want to lynch on it, I don't want to lynch on it...so what did that buy us, exactly, other than the outing of a PR?

I gave you the answer I wanted you to know. Anything else I may or may not have been trying to do, you don't need to know.

I'm positive that two of the six current roles in this game belong to scum, and I'm very sure that at least one other role is also scum. Throwing out one of the scum roles because I reasonably certain Andrius doesn't have it, that leaves one definite scum role and one highly like scum role against three town roles. Thus, 40% chance in my estimation. Is it pure math? No, I never claimed it was pure math. Completely mathematically, taking no intuition or gut reads into account, Andrius has a 33% chance of being scum (since 2/6 roles are definitely, provably scum). That's only a 7% difference.

Also, quit misrepresenting me. I never said I wouldn't lynch on those numbers; in fact, I quite clearly said I

could

still lynch on those numbers.

[SaintKerrigan]

I'm just fascinated watching the bidding process.

FoS: Nobody Special

[SaintKerrigan]

Ok, so Size 24 means something entirely different on this server...

FoS: Nobody Special

Better.

[SaintKerrigan]

I'm not the only lurker.

But right now you're MY special lurker. See earlier accusations of not saying much other than going after Jack, etc.

[SaintKerrigan]

@ Steam: Your sarcasm detector failed. I was belittling your "case".

Also, you are not getting it. 40% scum is

only

taking role stuff into account, and nothing else. There is

definitely

a 33% chance of Andrius being scum no matter what because he has a role. Other evidence against him is additive to the percentage of likelihood. (It's not mathematics. It's not gut. It's gutematics. Get used to it.)

Also, I'm pursuing other targets by using my vote. I have plenty of reason to unvote. Kiss my ass.

(I'm in a snarky mood today. )

[SaintKerrigan]

@ AGM: Of course I was rolefishing. Why is that scummy?

[SaintKerrigan]

If I have other things planned in my mind, that's for me to know and to enact.

So people have absolutely know idea what I'm getting at (or they claim they don't). Let's try this again, in the Dummies! version.

- Andrius has confirmed himself to be a power role
- Before the last purchase, there were six living power roles (we will be working with this from hereon down)
- Because of monetary factors, it's safe to assume that there's one role per person
- Two of the six power roles are definitely scum: Nightkill and Inv. Immunity
- Since two of the six power roles are definitely scum, we get a 2/6 (33%) chance (excluding all other factors) that Andrius is scum
- In my opinion, at least one of the other power roles is also in scum hands
- I also don't think that Andrius was the one to purchase Inv. Immunity
- This completely removes one of the power role options from consideration
- Of the remaining five, one is definitely scum, and I believe that at least one of the other power roles is also scum
- This now makes a 2/5 (40%) chance that Andrius is scum
- All of this is just based on PR speculation. This does not include any other suspicions I might have of Andrius.

Meanwhile, I'm going after other people who are sitting quietly on the sidelines and aren't doing Jack (pun fully intended) while this great debate rages on. This means you, Zang/NS.

Someone let me know when SPS' "case" stops being attempts to provoke a bitchslapping contest, please. Thanks.

Fishy, equating like percentages from different statistics does not make things null in any way whatsoever.

[SaintKerrigan]

@ Fishy: Believe what you will, then.

[SaintKerrigan]

Regardless, I still want an answer to my question: what did you hope to achieve when you demanded that Andrius claim he was a powerrole?

If I have other things planned in my mind, that's for me to know and to enact.

[SaintKerrigan]

*claps gleefully and grabs more popcorn*

[SaintKerrigan]

Not going to be on Mafiascum much today for RL reasons. Just thought you ought to know.

(Posting this in all my games.)

[SaintKerrigan]

AGM assumes too much, methinks. Answer me this: why are the things I've done regarding Andrius scummy?

For the rest of you, aside from my recent shenanigans, why am I scum? (Steam is not free to answer this question because I already know he is a shut-down hypertunneling townie. Kinda reminds me of Cyberbob in Mini 934, eh Steam?)

[SaintKerrigan]

@SK: you are scum because of your recent shenanigans. I have no read on the rest of your play.

Why do my recent shenanigans make me scum?

I totally am free to answer the question. You might not want me to, but you can't impugn my right of free speech.

I'm just trying to save people the time of reading your answer when the outcome of your answer is already known. (P.S. Get your sarcasm detector fixed. It's broken.)

I was, of course, not actually depriving you of your constitutional rights. What's the difference between you and Cyberbob from Mini 934, by the way?

[SaintKerrigan]

Good attempt, Fishy, if a bit flawed.

If I were on the scumteam with the NK, how does blatantly rolefishing (i.e. something widely considered as a live grenade) benefit me and my partner? There's a high chance I get lynched, and a very low chance I actually get Andrius to cough up what his role is. One scum member for one power role in a game with many power roles? Unless Andius was scum, this is a suicidal move for scum. Even with that condition, this just gives town a better chance to catch the surviving scum members.

This also applies in the other scenario. While having a member of one scumteam "suggest" targets to the one that has the NK does have some merit, you again encounter the problem of sacrifice. You more than likely get yourself lynched, and

maybe

the other scumteam uses that kill to kill the power role instead of hunting for your surviving buddy. Again, how does this benefit the scum team suggesting the targets?

As for your problem with finding town motivation for my behavior, well, all I can say is that you need to think harder.

[SaintKerrigan]

Oh hai Spyrex. Ready to [redacted - ongoing game]?

I agree that the cop should claim his result and then sell. *waits for people to jump on him again*

I also mostly agree with your scumlist. For me it's SPS who's in the iffy position instead of Zang. Also, I'd have Zajnet on the iffy list as well.

##Unvote: Zang
##Vote: NobodySpecial

I'll deal with Zang later.

@ Andrius: No, doc is useless to the cop if the doc is mafia, and right now we can't tell the difference.

@ AGM: If I felt like telling you anything else other than what I have already provided, I would have done it by now.

[SaintKerrigan]

Ok, I'm here and I'll post something tommorow

I love this kind of contribution! /sarcasm

[SaintKerrigan]

If you are scum, you clearly thought this play is the kind of thing you could justify doing as a town PR - and that explains your odd justifications to do with Andrius's alignment. Rolefishing when it looks plausibly townie is a good thing for scum to do, and I'm guessing that's what you thought here.

This is a sign that you're tunneled on me, Fish. This entire supposition of yours is WIFOM.

I've thought pretty hard about why you'd do what you did as town. I will do so again - perhaps I'm missing something obvious, but I can't see any way in which you had any information about Andrius's alignment.

Here's a hint: think outside the box.

I think it's extraordinary that most of the town seem unconcerned with SK's blatant outing of a PR with no reason to do so.

Y'know, I have said similar things as scum, when someone (town) did something that I thought was incredibly lynch-worthy, but when I tried to sell the case the rest of the town was like "meh". It's a sign of scum frustration.

FoS: Fishythefish

Oh, and I don't like this from SK:

I agree that the cop should claim his result and then sell. *waits for people to jump on him again*

This draws a totally false link between this statement and his play early today.

Here you demonstrate a complete fail at looking at things from someone else's point of view and continue to exhibit signs of tunneling.

In other news, SPS dislikes Spyrex calling my bandwagon lame. (This reason shall be used to explain his FoS until such time as he puts forth a better explanation.)

[SaintKerrigan]

Please explain how my argument is WIFOM. The only thing in this which approaches WIFOM is you saying that you wouldn't have done something as scum because you would be suspected for it. I simply said why I think your play is likely from scumSK.

Because your entire response to my claim that "My behavior is suicidal for scum" is "Well, clearly you-scum thought that you could justify it as a town power role" and "You thought you'd look plausibly townie while rolefishing." At least I backed up my statement by showing why it was suicidal for scum to do what I'm doing. You did no such thing. It's purely hypothetical. Thus, WIFOM.

Incidentally, where are you getting the idea that I was insinuating being a power role?

Here, you've done something I think is very scummy, and the rest of the town is like "meh". My post is born of town frustration.

I would be more sympathetic with this point of view, but I happen to know that I'm town (heard it from a reliable source). Thus, I also need to keep the scum frustration element in mind.

How is my recent point a failure to look at things from your POV? What you've said there is that people are likely to jump on you for what is pretty clearly a bad reason. Implicitly, you are linking that to the other reason people are jumping on you, and so taking a totally unjustified dig at the case against you. It's effectively strawmanning the case against you into an argument that hasn't been made.

So you haven't noticed all the other times I've insulted people (mainly SPS) on my wagon? Incidentally, you're the only one (to my knowledge) that is actively giving me reasons to respond to. Everyone else on my wagon is like "lol scummy behavior votevote" without showing why what I'm doing is scum-oriented. Personally, I feel justified in deriding them for this stance.

Hence, you're failing to look at it from my PoV.

Is there any reason you think my point is tunneling other than that it's a point against you?

To clear up the accidental misrepresentation that I'm sure you didn't mean to commit, the fact that it is a point against me in general has nothing to do with why I called it tunneling. The fact that you're firing missiles at caterpillars, is. (In other words, your spinning things that aren't actually scummy into things that look scummy. Hence, tunneling.)

[SaintKerrigan]

This guessing game is so stupid, I'm not going to try and speculate on what you are thinking so I can then speculate on Andrius. Either its too hard to figure out and your "speculate" point is stupid, or its easy, I'm stupid, and the scum have already figured it out, meaning your "speculate" point is stupid.

P.S Did I mention it was STUPID?

Good.

Now would you mind telling me why what I was doing is scummy?

And what are your thoughts on people other than me?

[SaintKerrigan]

I do dislike it (obviously). That's a very weak reason to be suspicious of someone though, whereas my actual reason is only sort of weak.

So what was your actual reason for FoSing Spyrex, then?

ISOing NS gives me a slight town read on the dude.

This needs to be explained.

[SaintKerrigan]

Unfortunately, I have Nothing Special to claim. Just a vanilla townie here, no powers to speak of.

All right, then.

##Vote: Nobody Special

@ SPS: Your attempts at imitating me are failing miserably. Please stop it.

Also, gut-check time.

[SaintKerrigan]

So while you're still alive, NS, care to make a last-minute effort to derail your bandwagon?

[SaintKerrigan]

A) I don't see the point; my understanding is that I'm dead (why Mod came in and didn't... whatever.)

B) I honestly don't even know what the reasoning is, aside from lurking. I think examining my voters will yield much info.

DAMN YOU StK. I just realized what you did.

Mmhmm. So...why not go back and see what people have to say against you, and try your damned best to persuade them to lynch someone else instead?

You're a VT, right? So you might as well try, right?

[SaintKerrigan]

NS was already hammered though.
Why try to undo what cannot be undone?

You might want to check the previous votecount, Andrius.

[SaintKerrigan]

:'( I'm not stupid, I just have my stupid moments.
Stupid moments, because I'm not blonde.

*points to Andrius' avatar*

[SaintKerrigan]

Zaj asking the question in thread does

not

make him scum. It just means he did something stupid. I've seen town do this before (L4D Mafia), so it's not a reliable tell.

[SaintKerrigan]

I'm pretty sure that we lynched for real yesterday (after my little stunt)...

[SaintKerrigan]

EBWOP: Nvm, all of those were Zaj votes. My bad.

[SaintKerrigan]

NS was town? Damn, that's bad news.

Spyrex was NKed? Damn, that's bad news.

Y'know, I'm sick of all this goddamn bad news. Let's have some good news for a change.

I caught scum. Now

that's

some good news. Doesn't that just brighten up your whole day?

Vote: Andrius

(Yes, I know this is not a real vote. The latter parts of my post should suffice to explain why.)

To explain: I bought the Mugger ability yesterday. I mugged Andrius, and guess what I found? Investigation Immunity. I believe I already explained earlier why a townie that had II should claim it right away. I even posted it in large bold letters so no one could miss it. Well, nobody claimed it, so that pretty much makes it a scum ability. Thus, since Andrius turns out to be the guy with II, he's scum.

I also feel that I can fully explain what I was doing yesterday. Yes, I was trying to make Andrius blatantly obvious as a power role. The idea behind it? Why, get him nightkilled, of course. Unorthodox a strategy, to be sure, but if we can get scum to waste a kill on one of our suspects instead of us having to waste a lynch on that suspect, bully for us. And if the suspect turns out to be someone on the other scumteam, bully for us. In the event that Andrius wasn't nightkilled, for whatever reason, or if he was somehow town and died, I had another aspect to the plan: the mugger.

I got the mugger ability for two reasons. First, I get to learn what exactly Andrius is, and depending on what roles he has I can further figure out if he's scum or not. Second, if he gets nightkilled and turns out to be town, I get his abilities so the town doesn't really lose a power role; if he's scum, then scum loses those abilities and town gains them. Yay! And this being Day 2, I was pretty sure scum wouldn't outbid me on roles this time.

Andrius also possessed the Doc ability, which I would've kept secret, but he's bound to let everyone know anyway (since I'm guessing he's gonna try using the "I didn't reveal that I had II because I didn't want to get nightkilled because I was the Doctor" line...have fun with that one, Andrius ), so I might as well say it now. That said, unless I can think of a reason not to tomorrow morning I plan to sell the Doctor ability, both to pay off my debt and to get the role in the hands of someone less...conspicuous than I (confirmed doc makes for a lovely NK target). I won't do the same with II, though. If the scum NK me, then II is lost forever, and all the better for the town.

So here's the plan for today: we wait until the current abilities are sold (and my doc if I decide to go with that), and then we

lynch

that motherfuckin' scum Andrius. Then we go and kill all his friends, and the enemies of his friends (town excluded), and those that remain live happily ever after.

Now isn't that some damn good news?

NO ONE VOTE FOR ANDRIUS UNTIL WE GET ABILITIES SOLD. AT LEAST WAIT UNTIL I GET CONFO FROM ZORASTER ABOUT SOMETHING IMPORTANT.

[SaintKerrigan]

Oh, lol, guess what? There's another reason why Andrius is scum: The doc is a two-shot ability. Guess how many shots are left on Andrius' doc? Two.

Game, set, and match, folks.

[SaintKerrigan]

EBWOP: This also confirms that Andrius' team is the one that had the nightkill. Why use the Doc when you control the only killing ability?

[SaintKerrigan]

EBWOP x2: A plan for us to consider:

If town wires someone they think is town a crapton of money, then this town person could by the Arson role and thereby eliminate the scum nightkill entirely. We might want to figure out if one of us is town enough that this strategy is viable, because it'd be uber powerful. Obviously whoever gets it is at the direction of the town; deviations should merit lynches.

[SaintKerrigan]

EBWOPx3 (sorry!): Crap, hit submit before I was ready.

Just heard from Zorro, and the bidding process does

not

stop if we lynch before the bidding deadlines are up. So scum can't quickhammer us to oblivion.

However, we STILL should not vote Andrius yet. There are things we need to discuss. If town gets the Arson Role, then Andrius can be saved for an Arson kill. (Roast flesh sounds rather scrumptious to me... ) Once we have some discussion on what to do,

then

we can lynch Andrius.

DO NOT VOTE ANDRIUS UNDER PAIN OF BEING CONSIDERED SCUM AND BECOMING PREY TO ANOTHER ONE OF MY WILD SCHEMES.

[SaintKerrigan]

Nice friggin' catch!

There's still no way to know that you (SaintK) aren't on the other scum team, but Meh.

I'd like to think a Spyrex voucher makes me a certified townie.

...wait, this is a cynical lot, isn't it? Oh well.

True, I could be on the other scum team. Guess I'll just have to say that I'm not and leave the rest for you guys to figure out.

[SaintKerrigan]

(I'm seriously sorry for the spamming, but I just realized something majorly important.)

Holy fuck...

Finally:

The Interest Rate has now been set to 15%!

I'm glad I payed off my debt during D2 xD

Anyways, so we're at 4 townies, 2 mafia A, 2 mafia B.

With the NK out of the way and the arsonist being so conditional, we're quite a ways away from lylo.

I'm glad I payed off my debt during D2 xD

I payed off my debt during D2.

Looks like is raining manna from heaven, folks. We just caught us another scum!

You see, three of the seven D1 abilities are now confirmed to have been in scum hands: NK, II, and Doc. DV was town. So the only abilities unaccounted for are: Pickpocket, Cop, and Bulletproof. What's the common factor among all of them? The debt accrued from buying one of those abilities cannot be paid off

by a townie

on D2 (except if the Pickpocket hit a fuckin' jackpot, which is probably what Zaj will have to claim, and he better hope he can back up his claim). Therefore, having his debt taken care of during Day 2 makes Zajnet 99.99999% scum. (The jackpot scenario being the only possible way he did this as town.)

Damn, how'd we get so lucky?

Hey Andrius, Zaj, mind telling us who your partners are?

Might as well try to take advantage of our current run of luck.

[SaintKerrigan]

Yet ANOTHER EBWOP (Jesus H. Christ):

SAME VOTING RULES FOR ANDRIUS ALSO APPLIES TO ZAJNET. JUST IN CASE IT WASN'T OBVIOUS.

[SaintKerrigan]

What about paying off debt after buying a D2 ability?

Of the two abilities that were sold higher than a townie could afford without borrowing, I owned one, and the other was too expensive for you to have paid off the entire debt

on the same day that you had bought it

.

Or what if I didn't buy an ability, but borrowed money and bid on ones. You know, like the NK that I bid $146 towards.

Since I assume this means you aren't claiming Pickpocket, we have a way to check on that.

The Pickpocket needs to claim. Once the Pickpocket claims, Zajnet tells us

exactly

how much he borrowed each day, when he paid it back, what he bid on with it, whether he got the item or not, and finally, how much money he has now. Tonight, the Pickpocket pickpockets Zaj, and tomorrow morning he tells us exactly how much money he got from Zajnet that night. The Pickpocket gets doc protection (if the doc is town; if I still have it I know I'll protect the Pickpocket). If the Pickpocket's number is different in any way from the total calculated from Zaj's report, Zaj gets lynched. If Zaj is town, the Pickpocket is lynched the next day.

If the Pickpocket doesn't claim, it's a safe bet that the role is scum, and we'll have to lynch Zaj the old-fashioned way.

It's really that simple.

[SaintKerrigan]

You're neglecting to realize that I bid, say, $146 on a D2 item, but then won it for, say, $101.

And I just told you of a way we could check on that. In the unmentioned part of the post you quoted.

Incidentally, what was the point of remarking that you were glad you paid off your debt before the interest was raised if you already knew the interest was being raised in the first place?

Also, weren't you the one that said $146 was close to the maximum limit a townie could bid and safely pay off the debt later? Why bump it up to 166? Wouldn't that put you over the safe limit?

[SaintKerrigan]

I just realized something: If we quicklynch Andrius before the bidding is over, we can actually circumvent the NK entirely (should a mafia wind up with it). Since half the people here are scum, I think depriving mafia of a NK would help a lot. Let's discuss this quick.

Hi nopointinactingup! Its been awhile since 930.

##Vote: SaintKerrigan

I did have the Doctor ability, up until I was mugged. I did not submit a N1 action because I had no idea who the scum would target. And with two shots I didn't want to waste either of them, thinking- of course- that another NightKill ability would hit the market D3. I did actually submit a N2 protection, but it either arrived after deadline or zoraster missed it, sadly.

Your excuse for a no-show on N1 is bullshit. Of course the doctor doesn't know who the scum will target exactly. That doesn't excuse the doc from protecting people. You aren't a player that I consider dumb enough to legitimately make that kind of mistake. Oh, and if you thought there would be another NK ability on D3, why not also assume that there'd also be another protective ability on D3? As for your "submission" on N2, even if you'd really done it it wouldn't have gone through; my mugger steals most abilities before they activate (and no, you don't get to know what abilities get priority over the mugger). Of course, this is all highly irrelevant, since you and I both know that you never used either of those protects because your team controlled the nightkill.

I did not have the Investigation Immunity, or else I would have claimed it. SK is obviously trying to pin it on me, with an obvious excuse under seemingly-true pretenses. Yes, I was mugged. This is the perfect opportunity for the scum_mugger to lead the town into another mislynch. Either SK has the Investigation Immunity or his partner does. I did not have that role at all. SK pinned this on me in the hopes that he'd be able to lead you all in yet another mislynch.

So let me ask you this: right now, half the players in this game are scum, on two separate teams, against four town players. If I were scum, and I was trying to lead the town into mislynching you, I'd be quicklynched the next day. Assuming town doesn't have control of the new NK and a townie is NKed, that leaves my scumbuddy against the other scumteam and two town players. If my team doesn't control the new NK, it's game over for my team. Even if my partner has the NK, this is bad for us. So if I were scum, why would I deliberately try to mislynch a townie when what my team actually needs is an opposing scumlynch?

Is it possible that I'm scum trying to get that other scum lynch? Certainly. But that pretty much means you're scum, now doesn't it? After all, why would I as scum pull this crazy stunt unless I was certain that you were a member of the other scumteam?

Don't let this scum lead you in another mislynch. SK's play is no shining light; and this scum gambit only makes it more apparent: that SK is scum.

When exactly did I lead the town into a mislynch before, Andrius? And why was it apparent before that I was scum? You weren't pushing the idea of my scumhood yesterday, giving me an FoS (so weak!) for D1 antics, and then melting in the background watching other people peck at me, never once getting in the ring yourself. It's only after I come out with incriminating evidence against you that you finally slap a vote on me and say, "Oh look, SK's obvscum." If it was that obvious before, what were you doing yesterday when my wagon actually had some steam?

@SPS: Are you suggesting SK is scum?

He's been doing more than suggest that for quite awhile now.

Townies get $20 each day, not $30 like you do.

This has no relevance to the quote this was in response to. None whatsoever.

Also, now that Spyrex the Townie is dead, care to explain what the FoS on him was for yesterday?

Zajnet, as long as you're claiming stuff, claim exactly how much money you had in your account at the start of Day 3.

[SaintKerrigan]

$34

Ok, that's about the number I came up with as well. (Mine was $34.2.)

Was there a reason you only put $146 on the NK? Instead of, say, $147?

[SaintKerrigan]

I still think we should have the auction before nightfall. 4:2:2 is a bad position, and temporarily ruling out some nightkills looks at most marginally good. Masoniser is a protown ability, and FRC looks pretty neutral. On balance, I think having these abilities in the game is protown.

The problem is, if we wait for those and one of the mafia factions ends up with the NK, then we still have to contend with that tonight. If we quicklynch Andrius now before the bidding is over, we deprive a Mafia NK and we'll still get the abilities on D4 for people to use. Think about it as the town getting a free scumlynch (well, except for people paying off debts).

The more I look at it, this actually is a decent idea...

[SaintKerrigan]

I misread the rules and thought the 5% reduction was everytime you payed off debt, so I thought $46 was the most I could borrow without going into bankruptcy.

I can show the math if you want it.

That wouldn't be a bad idea.

[SaintKerrigan]

Hmm...

In any event, this is how I calculated the maximum safe borrowing amount.

1.1X - Y = A
1.1A - Y = B
1.1B - Y = C

X = Debt 1 (Initial Debt)
A = Debt 2 (Day 1 Debt)
B = Debt 3 (Day 2 Debt)
C = Final Debt (Day 3 Debt)
Y = Income

C = 0
Y = 20

1.1B - Y = C
1.1B - 20 = 0
1.1B = 20
B = 200/11 = ~18.18

1.1A - Y = B
1.1A - 20 = 200/11
1.1A = 420/11
A = 4200/121 ~ 34.71

1.1X - Y = A
1.1X - 20 = 4200/121
1.1X = 6620/121
X = 66200/1331 = ~49.74

All of that is assuming you spend exactly this much money on the ability and don't pay anything back on the same day.

I just realized I could've replaced A and B with the equations and made a single large equation.

1.1X - Y = A
1.1A - Y = B
1.1B - Y = C

1.1(1.1X - Y) - Y = B
1.21X - 1.1Y -Y = B
1.21X - 2.1Y = B

1.1(1.21X - 2.1Y) - Y = C
1.331X - 2.31Y - Y = C
1.331X - 3.31Y = C

1.331X - 3.31(20) = 0
1.331X - 66.2 = 0
1.331X = 66.2
X = 66.2/1.331 = 49.74

(Yes, this has no relevance to scumhunting, but I found it rather fun!)

[SaintKerrigan]

##Vote: Andrius

Operation: Speedlynch is underway.

@ Everyone: Let's continue discussion about PRs and such, but go ahead and vote for Andrius ASAP. This way we get a free scumlynch without fear of scum reprisal.

[SaintKerrigan]

I got $34 from zajnet.

All right, we've got a problem. Zang and Zaj can't both be town. Three scenarios present themselves:

1. Zang is the Pickpocket, he stole from Zaj last night and got $34. Since Pickpocket only steals 25% of someone's cash, that means Zaj actually had $156 dollars. This amount requires Zaj to borrow more money than he can safely pay off in three days, which violates the logic he's been establishing. Therefore, Zaj is scum.

2. Zang is lying about having the Pickpocket and trying to incriminate Zaj as described above. Therefore, Zang is scum.

3. Scum Zang claims to have the Pickpocket (whether he does or not is irrelevant), and claims he stole $34 dollars from his partner, Zaj, in order to try and confirm him as town. However, he fails to account for the 25% factor as described in Scenario 1. Therefore, both Zang and Zaj are scum.

Thus, we can safely conclude that at least one of Zang and Zajnet, if not both of them, are scum. Zajnet seems to be the proper first lynch, but before we start voting, the person who is selling the Pickpocket should claim,

especially

if it isn't Zang. Zang, if it's you, why did you sell the Pickpocket? (I think I know the answer but say it anyway.) Also, claim your previous Pickpocketing targets.

Also, if the cop is still alive and has at least one innocent on people who are still alive, claiming that now might be a good idea.

[SaintKerrigan]

Also, I just discovered a problem. I still haven't paid off all my debt, and if it's not paid off by tonight, I have to sell all my abilities to help pay off the debt. This includes Investigation Immunity. This gives the scum an opportunity to get it right back. I'd prefer this didn't happen.

So if anyone wants to help me out by wiring me some money to pay off the debt (I need around $160) to keep II out of scum hands, I'd really appreciate it. Multiple people could wire me money rather than one person doing it (and that's actually a better idea).

[SaintKerrigan]

EBWOP: I've decided against selling the Doc for the moment because we're going to get another protective role soon, and I can draw the scum NK by having Doc, thus forcing them to get rid of II. Of course if I don't pay my debt off soon I won't be able to keep II out of scum hands.

[SaintKerrigan]

I had $34, then I borrowed $102. Then I got payed $20, giving me $156 exactly.

The issue at hand is that you borrowed more than $49 dollars, the safe amount a townie can borrow and pay back without going broke. This is in gross violation of the behavior you've claimed to have exhibited thus far. Thus, I think you're scum.

This response eliminates Scenario 2 in my other post. This means Zajnet is confirmed scum. Hold off on the votes for now, though. I want a little discussion first.

All right, we've got a problem. Zang and Zaj can't both be town.

why not?

For the reasons I described in that same post you quoted. Go back and read them and try again.

I sold it because i'm in debt.

Ok, I thought so.

AGM and Nopoint are free to confirm being pickpocketed if they so wish, but it is not really necessary. I'm pretty sure now that Zang was telling the truth about having the Pickpocket. (This doesn't mean if someone can counterclaim they shouldn't.)

[SaintKerrigan]

Ok, forget everything I just said about Zajnet and Zang. I forgot that you could only borrow up to 300% of your total available cash (for some reason I kept assuming it was 300% from the starting cash limit ). Taking that info into account, Zaj's reported results check out fine. There is still technically a chance that he and Zang are scum together and lying, but for now I'll leave it alone. Plus, Pickpocket was something I figured town would more likely go for than scum.

Oh and Zang: So

you're

the one that outbid me on the Pickpocket. I'd say damn you, but it turns out it was good thing I didn't blow all my money on that.

[SaintKerrigan]

So, assuming Zajnet and Zang are telling the truth, they aren't scum. I'm not scum (because I said so). From my perspective, likely scum candidates come from:

SPS
AGM
Nopoint
Fishy

Damn, that's not bad. 3/4 chance of those people being scum (again, assuming Zaj and Zang aren't lying). Something about AGM makes me feel more town on him than the others, so my current scumpicks are SPS, Fishy, and Nopoint (in sorta that order). I'll need to reread people though.

For now, no votes. Now that we don't have a confirmed scum on our hands, I'm not interested in quicklynching.

@ Fishy: Scum aren't going to NK me tonight if they can get II back by waiting a night, forcing me to sell it because of debt, and then killing me after that.

If I don't get money, I am going to have to sell the Doc in order to get the necessary money. I was hoping to avoid that.

@ NP: What do you mean?

[SaintKerrigan]

I'm going to reread and look for Andrius' buddy. Although, admittedly, I'm really not worried about Andrius' buddy because we can be pretty sure he was the one with the NK, and that means that he doesn't have much money left to do anything. It's the other scum team that scares me. You know, the one that likely contains SaintK.

Why do you think I'm scum?

[SaintKerrigan]

Call it a vibe. You keep telling us you're town, but without any reasons for us to believe that you actually are. Not to mention that the mugger went for a crap ton of money. Not more than a townie could technically have, but a crap ton.

What am I supposed to do, say I'm scum? Of course I'm going to say I'm town, regardless of alignment. It's up to you whether or not to believe me.

I borrowed a lot of money to get the mugger. That's why I'm in serious debt right now. That's why I've been asking for money to avoid having to sell the Doc ability to make up the difference. Again, why does this make me scum?

Do you have anything more than a "vibe" to back up your suspicion?

[SaintKerrigan]

Oh, by the by, don't bother bidding on Andrius. He had zilch cash when I mugged him, which means there's only $30 there for the taking.

[SaintKerrigan]

So, bid 1 on him and you gain $29 to pay off your debt.

I already wired the rest of my money to Zorro to help pay off my debt. Besides, I'm worried about scum one-upping me just to keep me from getting a lot of money.

I disagree, Andrius' buddy is the one that has the nightkill so i think he is more dangerous to the town. And also look at the market, the other mafia probably used all their money on the arsonist so that Andrius' buddy would have more money.

The NK was only 2-shot. Depending on whether the buddy bought anything else, he may or may not be in debt right now. I'll need to wait and see how the current lineup sells before making more decisions. (Meaning: something just occurred to me and I need to see the final bidding to see if I'm right.)

Also, since the Cop has already been used up, I suggest the person who had it should come out and claim results.

Although Fishy's latest two posts bring up something interesting: if Zaj is Andrius' buddy and wired money to Andrius to appear townie, then Andrius would have more than $30 on him. Maybe someone should bid $30 on Andrius and check it out.

[SaintKerrigan]

EBWOP

a lot of money.

Relatively speaking.

[SaintKerrigan]

Why did you think that Andrius was a scum PR rather than a town one (before mugging him)?

His posts didn't read town to me, D1 in particular. I can't really explain exactly how or why, but I did not get a town feeling from those posts.

[SaintKerrigan]

@SK: can you shed any light at all on your D1 gut feeling on Andrius?

I can't really explain exactly how or why

, but I did not get a town feeling from those posts.

[SaintKerrigan]

SaintKerrigan, the difference between my behaviour and Cyberbob's behaviour in mini 934 is that my behaviour was mostly exaggerated to draw a reaction from you.

...okay? What kind of a reaction were you trying to get out of me?

FoS: Nopointinactingup

He's been mysteriously quiet as of late, and there's some outstanding questions posed to him.

@ Zang: Why am I town?

[SaintKerrigan]

Zaj, how much money did you have at the start of Day 4?

@ NP: You didn't answer my question.

I confirm. Zang is telling the truth apparently. So Zaj is scum, or a liar?

What is the meaning of this?

1> Why can't someone else outbid the scum on investigation imunity instead of wiring money to you, which is very risky? You sound like you're trying to make an excuse to draw money to your side.

My way, II will definitely not end up in scum hands. If I let it go to market, I can't control who gets it. If someone wants to try and outbid the scum and land into a nice pile of debt, they are welcome to do so.

Why is SPS a tunneling townie instead of tunneling scum?

SPS's lack of posting isn't helping his image at all, but he's also not present in another game I'm playing with him, so I'm not sure it's intentional lurking. Nopoint is starting to ping more heavily on my scumdar.

Also, the Federal Reserve Chairman should claim and explain the nature of his role. There has got to be a catch if the role allows you to destroy it, and I'd like to know what it is.

[SaintKerrigan]

Actually, if my guess about the role is correct, using it will also deflate the value of our money. We'd get a temporary economic boost, but then our wages would be worth less than before so it would hurt us in the long run. That's just my speculation, though, based on how I understand inflation.

[SaintKerrigan]

Whoever got NS' stuff should claim in their next post and report on what NS had.

The masonizer should also use his ability today, and he and his target should confirm it in thread.

[SaintKerrigan]

Zaj, how much money did you have at the start of Day 4?

Answer this, plz.

@ Fishy: What day did you take out your only loan?

I'm still mulling over things, but right now quicklynching SPS and Andrius doesn't seem that bad of an idea to me. The question is which one do we lynch first?

[SaintKerrigan]

Can anyone confirm receiving a raise from Nopoint's claimed Promotion ability?

Better yet, can anyone counterclaim having the ability?

[SaintKerrigan]

My promotion ability was from NS' estate btw.

Oh.

That would've been a nice thing to know earlier...

[SaintKerrigan]

Forgive my measuredness as I need to make sure you guys will not just take my info and kill me.
1> If you are concerned I might be Mafia B then it's a tempting move for the real Mafia A to claim right now to eliminate a mafia B to increase their chance of winning.

Hi nopointinactingup! Its been awhile since 930.

And this, does Andrius say hi to anyone besides me?
Though those are weak arguments, those are the only I have to convince you that I'm Andrius' buddy.
2> If you are concerned with the fact that I might have Arsonist, I would like to ask you where do I get such money to buy Arsonist $300 when NK $147, Firefighter $121, and

NS' estate $100

pile up on my debt?
3> I would, but why should I put promotion on Sale?
4> Cannot answer that until we get thing straight.

I did say earlier.

That's hardly what I call plain and obvious. It could've just as easily been you forgetting to include that in there.

Whatever, though. This knowledge straightens out my thoughts about a few things.

[SaintKerrigan]

Everyone. Massclaim. Now.

What roles you have/had. How much money you have. Your entire spending/borrowing history. What you bid on. Everything.

Our best chance lies in identifying who the final Scum B is, and our best hope of doing that right now is for everyone to claim so we can try to catch someone by the paper trail.

Meanwhile, bring SPS to L-1. He is definitely Scum B. After the massclaim, or after 5:00 p.m. CST,

I

will hammer SPS.

Anyone

else who does so will be identified as scum and lynched. If a townie decides to be a jackass and hammer anyway, you will be hated and scorned for the rest of your days, in addition to being lynched. Do I make myself clear?

[SaintKerrigan]

EBWOP: Also, you need to say exactly when you made payments to pay off your debt.

[SaintKerrigan]

EBWOP x2: I'd go first, but I just discovered some irregularities with my cash amount that I need to get cleared with Zoraster. For now, I'll just say that Mugger was the only ability I bought, and I currently have Investigation Immunity and Doctor x2 from mugging Andrius. I'll do a detailed report after getting the cash situation ironed out.

[SaintKerrigan]

Fishy, how did you only get $84 remaining after paying off the loan? 5% of 300 is 15, so you should have had $85.

Zang, are you sure you only got $20 off of AGM?

Almaster, we have a problem.

7 Night Kill x 2 - Twice per game, you may PM the mod with a target. The following night, you will attempt to kill that person.
MB: 50

CB: 297

Deadline: 0:01:00 7/3/2010

This was the bidding report from a couple of pages back. In the post immediately afterward you said this:

Regarding quicklynch, here's the dilemma -

I am currently winning the Nightkill.

However, according to your report, you should only have $296 in your account -- one less than $297, the number listed when you claimed to be winning the nightkill. So what's the story, here?

As for Nopoint, his numbers definitely don't add up.

- If is predecessor borrowed $200 and paid off $53 dollars of debt, once you subtract the price of the NK

and the 5% interest ($10)

that leaves Nopoint with $115 dollars, not $125.
- Putting N1 Wages in, at the end of Day 2 Nopoint would've only had $145, not $155, and thus Zang would

not

have gotten $38.75 off of him.
- This implies two possibilities: Nopoint is Scum B who didn't buy anything, or Nopoint is Scum B

and

Zang is Scum B, and both lied.
- Even ignoring this and assuming Nopoint has been accurate thus far, it is impossible for him to have borrowed $160 dollars on Day 4. Why? Because of the cash-debt relationship. The amount of money you can borrow is 300% of your current cash

minus debts

. So if Nopoint had $1 in debt, but $101 in cash, this means he'd be able to borrow 300% of $100.
- This makes Nopoint's borrowing $160 completely impossible, as at this point he has

not

paid off his debt, so it's been compounding (10% the first two nights, 15% last night). If he started off $147 in debt and hasn't made any payments since, that would put him at approximately $205 (204.5505) in debt. Once you put the $215 he accrued in the interim into account, this leaves Nopoint with $15 he can use to borrow with. And even borrowing to the max, there is no way he can get $160.
- All this strongly implies that Nopoint is Scum B.

There is a problem with Nopoint being Scum B, though: SPS is definitely lying about what abilities he has. If he really was Mafia A and bought both the NK and the Bulletproof Vest, his BV should've gone to auction today, like Zang's Pickpocket did. SPS would've paid $294 for those two abilities, and the most money he can scrounge up in three days time to pay the debt off, including his starting funds, is $215. Therefore, since BV did not go to auction today, he definitely did not buy one of those abilities, and it has to be the NK. This means SPS is also Scum B.

This leads to an outrageous, yet not implausible possibility:

both SPS and Nopoint are Scum B

. If that is the case, then the odds are that SPS has the Arsonist. If Nopoint had the Arsonist, SPS wouldn't have counterclaimed Mafia A, because he'd want his partner to live as long as possible and get at least one kill off.

The other two questions, of course, are who is the real Mafia A and who's going to get the NK?

[SaintKerrigan]

EBWOP:

Regarding quicklynch, here's the dilemma - I am currently winning the Nightkill.

[SaintKerrigan]

@SK: the 5% is actually subtley different from that. If you spend $X repaying, then only 0.95X of capital is payed off. So to pay off 300 it takes 300/0.95, which is (just less than) $316.

Thinking. Hard.

Your math is off. To figure out a percentage of something, you multiply the number by the decimal representation of the percent. 5% of 300 is 15. You then add 15 to 300 to get $315.

What I'm not getting is why you're using this odd equation when that's not what Zoroaster's been using (I had $90 after paying off a $200 loan on D1. Using your methods I would've actually only had $89). The fact that you're using this with all of your numbers strongly implies that you're lying, as you could've simply used the reports Zorro gave you.

I'm getting a very strong vibe that you're the final scum...

@ Nopoint: Right...

[SaintKerrigan]

No. Zang put it up for auction himself, that wasn't the mod's doing. I'll go bankrupt once we lynch today, that's how the timing works out. Feel free to check with the mod.

Actually, you're right. Checking with the mod about my own debt confirms that. And with that, I'm now entirely sure on who to lynch.

##Vote: Fishythefish

With SPS's announcement, I am now positive that he is the real Mafia A. I do not believe Nopoint at all when he says Andrius forgot to submit the protect on him N1. I am now positive that Nopoint is Mafia B. However, I doubt he's the one with the Arsonist. That means his partner is the one who has it.

Fishy is Nopoint's partner. He lied today about his report. How do I know? The fact that he says he has $84 dollars instead of $85 dollars after repaying his entire loan on D1. I was wrong earlier about the 5% being applied to the whole loan if you pay any amount of it back on the same day you borrowed it; the 5% interest actually applies to the amount you pay back. However, this mistake is irrelevant. The final outcome is not actually changed.

Fishy claims to have borrowed to the max ($300) on D1, bid on stuff but failed to get anything, and then repaid the entire loan on the same day. However, if he paid off his entire loan ($300), he would need to also pay 5% interest on what he paid back. In this case, $15 (since 15 is 5% of 300). That means he has to pay a total of $315 dollars back to the bank. When all's said and done, that leaves Fishy with $85 dollars.

Not

$84, as he claims.

Why is his number 1 integer off? Because he's not actually reporting what he actually had. He calculated, in his own way, how much money he should have based on the story he was telling, and used those calculations to back up his report. Unfortunately for him, he screwed up his calculations. Since there is no reason for a townie to lie about this report, that makes him scum. And since I believe SPS is the true Mafia A, that makes Fishy the other Mafia B. Which means he's the one with the Arsonist.

Therefore, we need to lynch Fishy first, and fast. Tomorrow we speed-lynch Nopoint, and the next day we speed-lynch SPS. Provided we get the Arsonist with our first shot, this will be a town win.

But we've gotta move fast. So vote now.

Everyone, vote FishytheFish!

[SaintKerrigan]

SK, do you still have the doctor? If so protect nopoint.

Thanks, but I'm protecting someone that I think is town.

Fishy is getting speedlynched tomorrow. He has the Arsonist. I'm also pretty certain he's the one outbidding AGM for the other NK. He needs to die ASAP.

@ Fishy: Except the $315 comes from adding the 5% interest ($15) of $300. You're advocating that someone would have to pay 5% on the whole amount, and then pay 5% again on the new amount. Which is absolutely ridiculous and not how the system works.

You're scum. You're dead tomorrow. Accept it. I have.

[SaintKerrigan]

3. You may pay off your debt at any point.

However, any debt you pay off in the first day is charged a 5% service fee. So for example if you take out a $100 loan and pay off $50 of that debt, you will only have paid off $47.5 of the debt, leaving you with a debt of $52.5.

Bzzt!

[SaintKerrigan]

Um... you might want to think about that some more. It precisely support

my argument

. You know, like I told you a few posts ago.

You pay $50. How much is paid off?

$50*0.95=$47.5

In your system, how much does it cost to pay off 47.5?
$47.5*1.05=49.875.

Learn to read. Either other players posts, or the mod's pms, or the rules.

You are completely misrepresenting my system and Zoraster's.

This is how it works: You have a debt of $100. You make a payment of $50 on the same day you borrowed. According to the rules, a 5% service fee is charged on what you pay. This is deducted from what you are paying. Since you're paying $50, 5% of 50 is 2.5, and 50 - 2.5 = $47.5, which is the amount of debt you've actually paid off.

Multiplying by 0.95 is not the same thing as Zoraster's system, nor is it even correct mathematics. And adding 5% twice is definitely not accurate.

Regardless, our arguing doesn't really matter. Zoraster should answer your question when he resolves the lynch, and then your lies will be confirmed to be lies.

[SaintKerrigan]

"Since you're paying $315, 5% of 315 is 15.75, and 315 - 15.75 = $299.25, which is the amount of debt you've actually paid off."

By this reckoning, you're still $1 dollar in debt.

And even

if

somehow all this information is erroneous, you're still going to be lynched tomorrow because you hammered SPS. I said last night that

I'd

be the one to hammer SPS. Anyone else who does it, regardless of what alignment or motivations they claimed, would be lynched the next day. This was to discourage scum quickhammers, but apparently you didn't heed the warning.

The fact that the hammer was when I was trying to get people off the SPS wagon and onto you makes it even more damning.

[SaintKerrigan]

You know, Fishy, I'm not going to continue arguing with you about that because no matter what I say, you're going to disagree with it since it proves you're guilty. I'll just wait for the mod to come in and prove that your numbers are off.

And sorry, but we're lynching you tomorrow. End of story. I was pretty clear about this last night. If you forgot about it, too bad.

[SaintKerrigan]

@ Everyone else: Make sure Fishy dies tomorrow no matter what, especially after he incinerates me tomorrow to try and get town off the rails. Don't listen to his lies.

[SaintKerrigan]

Well, things just got trickier. If what Fishy says is true, that means the mod is rounding off numbers...which actually makes

Zang

the final scum we're looking for.

Earlier he said he pickpocketed 38.75 off of Nopoint. However, since Fishy's mathematics absolutely requires the mod to be rounding off all of his numbers, that means the 38.75 from Nopoint would actually have been rounded up to 39. This definitely looks like a calculated number by Zang to try and support Nopoint's story.

So, things seem quite clear. If my version of the interest battle is correct, Fishy is undeniably scum. If Fishy's version is correct, then Zang is absolutely scum. If the mod does not answer the pertinent question with his next post,

do not vote for anyone

until the mod has answered the question.

I'm telling you this now because I'm pretty sure the Arsonist is going to try to kill me ASAP tomorrow so I can stop pointing these things out. This way, I can still get this vital info out for you guys.

[SaintKerrigan]

EBWOP: If Zang is scum, lynch Nopoint first. Zang sank a lot of money into Pickpocket and didn't get nearly enough to pay it back.

[SaintKerrigan]

Ok, so the mod actually

doesn't

round numbers, except when reporting the Asset PMs.

...which actually places even more suspicion on Fishy since all he should be doing, actually, is read from his Asset PMs. If he were actually doing so, Post #808 is completely unnecessary.

At the same time, why did Zang get $38.75 off of a pickpocket?

[SaintKerrigan]

EBWOP: How did Zang

know

he got $38.75, a fractional number, off a Pickpocket?

[SaintKerrigan]

Yeah, Zang would "hypothetically" be told the exact number he got from the Pickpocket, but still have his Asset PM rounded up.

And...yeah, I'm in the wrong. Dammit.

All right, no one vote at all tomorrow, since we can't stop someone from getting the NK with a speedlynch anyway. I need to think things over (again).

[SaintKerrigan]

SK, you'd be dead by tomorrow. Fishy's on you

I well aware that I'm almost certainly a dead man tomorrow.

[SaintKerrigan]

Zang: Did you or did you not receive $20 from AGM on the N1 Pickpocket?

[SaintKerrigan]

STOP VOTING RIGHT NOW!

If we vote the wrong person and they're town, town loses the game. We need to think for awhile before we start throwing votes around.

Obviously AGM's claimed result looks damning on Fishy. But this claim is exactly what a Scum B would do in this situation, because if a townie is mislynched, then the Scum B can NK one townie, arson a second one, and ignite both the primed townies at the start of D6. That leaves only two people alive, and since he controls the only remaining NK that likely means a win for Scum B. So if AGM is scum this is a perfect move for him to claim.

And quite frankly, I'm bothered about Zang only getting $20 from AGM on N1. If AGM still had all of his cash and was town, Zang should've gotten $25 off of the pickpocket, not $20 (since 25% of 100 is 25). At the same time, I don't know how scum AGM would've had only $80 dollars left when Zang stole from him. However, AGM claimed to have not done anything with his money of D1 so if Zang's right we can lynch based on LaL. So Zang, in light of this, I'll ask you one more time to make sure that you got $20 from AGM instead of $25.

[SaintKerrigan]

EBWOP:

THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE VOTING SHOULD UNVOTE TO PREVENT ANY KIND OF SHENANIGANS FROM HAPPENING!

[SaintKerrigan]

Also, current Pickpocket owner needs to claim and share who they Pickpocketed last night.

[SaintKerrigan]

Fishy is 100% the last scum. I have the gunsmith ability; I investigated him last night and he has a gun.

If that's true, why is there no vote in this post?

[SaintKerrigan]

INSTEAD OF UNVOTING, VOTE FOR YOURSELF IF YOU'RE ALREADY VOTING!

And no, the numbers don't add up, AGM. You claimed to do nothing with your money on D1, therefore Zang should've stolen $25 from you on N1, not $20. That's why I'm making him check all this.

[SaintKerrigan]

WOULD SOMEONE OTHER THAN OUR LOCAL CONFIRMED SCUM PLEASE VOTE FOR SOMEONE OTHER THAN FISHY, GODDAMMIT!!!

Ok, so the $20 issue is resolved. There's this new NK aspect to deal with now, and it entirely depends on when Zoraster resolved the NK purchase and the end of D4.

[SaintKerrigan]

EBWOP:

SOMEONE ON THE FISHY WAGON, I MEAN!

[SaintKerrigan]

All right, either AGM's telling the truth or AGM does not actually control both the NKs (in which case he can't afford to out himself like that).

Either way, Zang and Zaj need to move their votes so we can discuss who needs to be lynched.

[SaintKerrigan]

##Vote: AGM

until the mod answers me.

Preferably on someone we

aren't

going to lynch today. Basically, no more than one vote on any particular person.

So, nobody else vote for AGM until town (and by that I mean I) say so.

[SaintKerrigan]

Hey, I thought ..

Lynching and Voting:

1. Votes must be preceeded by ## and be bolded. For example:

##Vote: Zoraster

2. There will be NO unvoting.

Means you can't change your vote? Am I wrong again?

Yep.

[SaintKerrigan]

Oh ... So it means I can do this?

##Vote: AGM

I'd call you scummy for this, but...yeah.

[SaintKerrigan]

AGM, if you had a 100% positive result that Fishy had a gun, I can't see any protown reason for you not to vote for him immediately afterward. After all, he's confirmed guilty, and in possession of the NK. That's more than ample reason to lynch.

Right now, the two options I see are either AGM is telling the truth, and thus Fishy has the NK/maybe the Arsonist as well, or AGM does not possess both the kill abilities, as he would've hammered Fishy if he had both. In that case, either AGM or Nopoint is an acceptable lynch (I think, I haven't done all the math to make sure Nopoint can't get both killing abilities yet). In the other case, Fishy is the best choice for first lynch, since he's confirmed to have one of the killing abilities.

[SaintKerrigan]

##Vote: AlmasterGM

[SaintKerrigan]

DAMMIT TOWN, THIS IS WHY YOU DON'T GET TRIGGER-HAPPY WITH VOTES IN LYLO!!!

AGM WAS SO CLEARLY SCUM BECAUSE HE DIDN'T VOTE FISHY DESPITE KNOWING FISHY WAS SCUM AND IN POSSESSION OF THE NK!!!

[SaintKerrigan]

Dude.

So what if the Arsonist gets two kills? One kill or two kills, we'll still be in a MYLO/LYLO position the next day. It's actually better not to kill the arsonist first because we'll have forced him to use up his kills.

The fact that you have the Governor is even more evidence that you're scum, AGM. Because having the Governor means that you did

not

put all your money towards the NK, like you were advocating.

WHAT IS THE SCUM MOTIVATION FOR HOLDING BACK THE VOTE ON FISHY. WHAT IS IT. TELL ME. I'M DYING TO KNOW.

Besides the fact that I have two cases where someone was absolutely positive someone was scum and yet didn't vote for them (and then that person was scum themselves), you withheld your vote because you didn't control both the kills, so you didn't want to make it obvious to the other killer (Nopoint) who the final scum was.

Who bid against me on the NK?

Nopoint, obviously.

[SaintKerrigan]

I really hope you just hadn't fully thought things through and Fishy really is scum, AGM, because otherwise you've doomed town to a hailmary prayer.

Of course, if you're scum, you know this and don't care.

[SaintKerrigan]

On looking back, Governor actually sold later than NK...thought it sold at the same time...

Sorry, AGM. People were firing votes way too fast for the state of the game we were in and I went into panic mode.

That's still a bad idea to fire off votes that fast, town. AGM could still have been lying scum, and throwing votes down like that would've cost us the game if that had been true. That's why I advocated not voting for awhile today.

[SaintKerrigan]

Ugh, after getting so right on Andrius how did I fuck up so much after that...

[SaintKerrigan]

Ironically though, I was starting to get that same gut feeling from Fishy that I'd gotten from Andrius.

[SaintKerrigan]

##Vote: Nopoint

for good measure.

35...
36...
37...
"Near...I've won!"

Nopointinacting, a member of Mafia Group A, has been lynched on Day 6.
Zajnet the Townie dies of a heart attack on Day 6
Zang the Townie dies of a heart attack on Day 6.
AlmasterGM the Townie dies of a heart attack on Day 6.

SaintKerrigan, the Death Note Owner, survives and wins the game.

(The above has obviously been a joke. Except the vote.)

[SaintKerrigan]

In particular, I enjoyed SaintKerrigan’s posts.

I'm glad you enjoyed them, despite me getting so many things wrong after the Andrius lynch and

almost

costing town the game. Although I

did

correctly call the remaining scum at the beginning of D4, lol.

Fishy's quickhammer is the hero of the game. It literally prevented a shift to a mislynch. Well done, Fishy.

Overall, this is one of my favorite games I've played in a long time, flaws and all. I actually love working out the math stuff (even if I get things wrong), so I'd love to find a way to keep math a good part of the game while at the same time not letting it totally dominate.

AGM's suggestion about fixing the debt is a good one. Another possibility is to offer more opportunities to increase wages. As long as scum get higher wages than town, they have the capacity to outbid town on anything. Maybe if the person who hammers gets an increase if the lynchee is of the opposite alignment or something? (Sorry, but that's the best I can think of ATM.)

@ Andrius: Yeah, Death Note ftw!

And yeah, you really should've gotten rid of II. Although as long as it's in scum hands if it gets discovered it's kaput for the guy who has it. Also, get your protects in on time.

[SaintKerrigan]

Fishy's quickhammer is the hero of the game. It literally prevented a shift to a mislynch. Well done, Fishy.

Oh my god, did I really just say that?

[SaintKerrigan]

Well, obviously math will take some part in the game. Bidding for assets is the core principle of the game. How I incorporate it is still something I'm mulling over. But I think I'd like to avoid scenarios where 38.75 is looked at as different than 39, etc. Figuring out how much money you have, figuring out how much you think your assets are worth, etc. will still take part.

Well, perhaps instead of using exact numbers for one part and rounded numbers for another part, you could either use all exact numbers or all rounded numbers (I think the latter is better, especially for those that don't like the math).

Also, maybe scum and town should both start with the same wage. Scum already have the potential advantage of knowing who to wire money to safely to outbid other people, so I'm not sure that giving them a higher income than town is that necessary.

Debt shouldn't be eliminated from the game, I think. It's a check against people who hyperbid to get an item no matter what. AGM's suggestion seemed pretty good to me.

[SaintKerrigan]

Game went great. Sucked to get killed n1 without getting to use the cop ability though.

Last few days were crazy.

Ah, so you had it. I figured after a while that the cop probably got NKed.

[SaintKerrigan]

Yeah, clearing NS would've been nice. Although that might've gotten a lynch wagon to come my way before I could carry out my crazy plan.

Thanks for helping derail that btw, Spryex. Your efforts were not in vain.

[SaintKerrigan]

Yeah, clearing NS would've been nice. Although that might've gotten a lynch wagon to come my way before I could carry out my crazy plan.

Thanks for helping derail that btw, Spryex. Your efforts were not in vain.

I would have derailed any wagon heading your way

"Voting SK at this point is a scumtell"--Jack in dead QT

Good man.

Also, @ Nopoint: For future reference, if someone claims Doc and they can't self-protect,

always

target them for a kill. That's the only 100% chance of killing someone you'll get. Zang and Zajnet were the two people I protected on the last two nights.

[SaintKerrigan]

Last day would've gone a lot better for my faction if SK's mathfail hadn't forced a mafia B-lynch. SK has accused way too many players of being scum based on his own misunderstanding of the rules.

Yeah, next time I'm definitely checking with the mod so I know which equations are being used. I think I also should've forced the massclaim earlier, because then the option to quicklynch both you and Nopoint before NK was sold would've existed, and would've significantly reduce my paranoia level (which was the cause of my D5 spasm).

Oh well. At least I was wrong at the right times.

[SaintKerrigan]

@DN club: notice my Ava? Lol

Lol there were

so

many times where I almost called you L.