Newbie 985 Game over

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/confirm
Hello everybody!

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I'm puzzled by David's /conform, instead of /confirm. A typo? Could be. Freudian slip? Maybe. Innocent mistake? Also possible. Either way, some discussion can't hurt.

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You don't want to scum-hunt?

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Vote: AbeZTEAZ.

Am I pronouncing that right?

Nah, actually you can just call me Abenumbers.

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Vote: Zachrulez (Indubitably Crummy)

Just for pressure.

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I didn't actually do any ACTIONS. If I were confident he actually were a mafia (which is near impossible after reading 2 posts), I would have voted him. I didn't vote him, so I was merely asking. Sure, I was asking in an aggressive manner, but no townie will ever get anywhere without questioning.

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The asking about /conform? Yeah, I've never played on mafiascum before, so I've never seen it. I can tell Parker's a joker now, but before I had no clue. The only other time I've played mafia on a forum, it was incredibly aggressive. Aggressive as in, a new post would appear every 20 minutes or less during the day. If you miss out for about 12 hours, you need to catch up on 50ish posts. A typical game of mafia lasted for about 2500 posts (Huge games), so I'm still getting used to these sets of rules and small games. Your vote is fair enough though, as I can see you're just testing my reaction under pressure. You don't seem too scummy, so I'll

Unvote: Zachrulez

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Oops, the reason for the unvote is basically you're attempting to start discussion (even if it is on me) and scum-hunting.

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Vote: NashiNashi

Anything you have to offer? So far you've only posted a /confirm, so either you haven't checked up on the thread in a day or are lurking.

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Kalofer: No, the "too" bit could be entirely omitted. I have no evidence against him currently.

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Unvote: NashiNashi

Reason: His/her (sorry! :/) response was satisfactory. I'd still like to know what you think of the 2ish separate theories going on.

In response to FakeGod's vote, I believe I was not looking for a simple target. If anything I was hoping to 'out' a lurker, and now that I know Nashi was just busy I no longer need to have a vote on him/her (sorry again! tell us please ). I'm also definitely not lurking.

Next, the tvellalot/Zombeh-Pug. There's only been a few exchanges in this, but personally I don't think you're always obligated to respond to a RVS on you immediately. It really depends on your playstyle, although I would definitely respond to an actual reasoned vote, and expect more of people's defense in that scenario.
DavidParker is acting strange, but I don't have any normal behavior of his to base it off of.

And DavidParker seems to be a little worried by my vote or wants an early place to latch a vote onto, since he's the only one who's said anything about the dice and decided to immedietely vote back at me.

What's this about dice? I'm a bit confused as to what you mean

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Code: Select all

[quote="PLAYERNAME"] This is their quote [/quote]

That's how you quote for everyone who doesn't know
It looks like this

This is their quote

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After rereading the thread, there's one player in particular who stands out to me. Look at this:

I think that's everyone...

Vote: FakeGod

...for being a heretic.

Vote: Kalofer

..... for blasphemy!

Vote: NashiNashi

Anything you have to offer? So far you've only posted a /confirm, so either you haven't checked up on the thread in a day or are lurking.

I think this could be scum looking for a easy target (like a lurker) to attack early on, trying to give a town-impression.

Unvote, Vote:Abe27342

guys chill with the walls, already!!! people are making serious votes out of nothing already...

i lol'd @ nikanor attacking zach for fence-sitting.

thats mafia talk if i've ever seen it.

What, you wanna grill him till fesses up? (gets

torture

vote devices ready)

Yes, that is more or less what I did, shouldn't we question everything?

It's good to exercise a healthy dose of suspicion!

@FakeGod: Why did you choose your username/What does it come from? And, you said you got "vote devices" ready when tvellyboy (yes, that's my new nickname for him) said I sounded scummy, but you never voted me, did you agree with him? What do you think of early bandwagons(scummy or not-scummy, pro-town or anti-town, etc)?

@David: FakeGod sounded like a good scummer name. Because tvell didn't commit his vote, I assumed he was just joking around. I treat early bandwagons just like other bandwagons; they could be scummy/or not depending on the circumstances, but I consider most bandwagons to be informative, and therefore helpful to the town.

The ONLY time he has any response with some sort of content pertaining to the game IMO, is when he's directly called out. That's every single post of FakeGod's, along with Kalofer's vote on him at the beginning. FakeGod responded with (possibly) an OMGUS vote. Also, his vote on me is quite hypocritical. This is really the biggest lead I have right now, so VOTE: FakeGod


Now, in response to David, In hindsight on the whole saying you're voting for pressure, it was a really stupid idea. Sometimes you can't see what's obvious though before you've done it. I believe the main question you have is the WHY SO SERIOUS?? Well, basically I'm no joker like you.

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Quick post by me, Kalofer I suppose it depends on how you consider the OMGUS vote. If it was indeed part of RVS, then I suppose it wasn't hypocritical. Him accusing of me being a lurker is fairly hypocritical, considering he is being somewhat of a lurker himself.
Anyway, I have to go, my cousin's sleeping over tonight so I'm not sure if I'll get another post in. I haven't read the last 10 or so posts thoroughly, so apologies if I missed any questions of me.

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Ahh, Kalofer, yeah, I misread his post. I thought FakeGod was calling me a lurker, which he wasn't. His lack of scum-hunting is still something to be worried about, however.
As to Nikanor voting Kalofer, I'm going to go check out Kalofer's posts again, because I haven't found him very suspicious though. I think largely the reason of that was him defending a few people, but that could (as Nikanor pointed out) be a psychological play.

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Basically Nikanor is saying Kalofer isn't deciding whether you're guilty or innocent and he's riding the fence. The specific part you didn't understand says Kalofer is adding suspicion to the bandwagon so that more people will vote you and push through the lynch. Is that clear?

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Current opinions: FakeGod's pressuring people to vote didn't seem scummy to me, and I'm think that he's just a semi-lurking townie (unfortunately, I've been lurking a bit too as I don't quite know what to say). I agree with FakeGod. Voting is good.

Unvote: FakeGod

Parker's a bit.. puzzling. He looks quite suspicious, but I'm not sure I want to put him at L-1.
I'm still inclined to believe Kalofer is town, off of a gut feeling.

VOTE: NashiNashi
Why do you believe FakeGod is scum? Was his answer about why he wanted people to vote satisfactory?

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My gut still says Kalofer is town. I'm no psychology genius, but the only time I've ever seen a mafia player spaz like that (it was IRL) was when we were about to kill him, and he never got quiet before. I think kalofer's reaction is very typical of a town-role. He quieted down and lost confidence, then finally broke and said fine, if you're going to lynch me be done with it. I still find that not very suspicious.
My vote has no purpose on Nashi anymore, sorry guys, the reason I've been lurking was my birthday was yesterday and we had a big family party on sunday. that took a lot of cleaning over the weekend but I should have everything together now.

Unvote: NashiNashi

Anyway, I think my vote is going to return to VOTE: FakeGod
FakeGod, what do you think of Kalofer's reaction to being at L-2? Do you still find him scummy? Why?

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oops, to clarify, the only time I've ever seen a scum spaz like that is how it should read.

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I think it's (pardon his french) [something] faggot shit [something];Zach scum definitely.


Anyway, on to my analysis.
Kalofer: Seems to have cooled down to his playstyle in the beginning of the game, which is posts like #332 from what I've observed. Although he could be fooling me, I find him pro-town.

NashiNashi: Good analysis on page 12, providing thought for the discussion, I have no reason for suspicion (other than the natural suspicion of every play of course ;D)

DavidParker: What the hell? Very strange playing, and after his big analysis where he critiqued every one, all of his posts are just "oh i rubbed my magic 8 ball and it said you're scum!" and his most recent post is even more confusing. Being annoying (sorry, it's not quite disruptive, but it is pretty annoying) is well.. not something I believe we should lynch someone for on day 1, but I'll definitely be watching him (How can you not?). He's overall not suspicious, but I'm suspicious of him being suspicious. If that makes any sense.

Nikanor: Very quiet player. He lead the pressure on Kalofer, and hasn't contributed a lot for a while. Where are you? Also, I think his post a while back saying that Kalofer wanted to put pressure on the lynch while at the same time defending someone is looking into things too hard. I just saw a townie who wasn't sure of whether or not that person was scum. Whatchya been doing? how do you feel about all of the players?

Zombeh-Pug: Unfortunate that you had to take a v/la, as I'm still not sure about your thoughts about other players. To answer your question, I'm here, just been waiting to type up this analysis. No questions have been asked of me, so I figured to just type up my thoughts on all of the players in this game.

FakeGod: I'm not sure what to think of you. I believe that you have been dealing with pressure by semi-ignoring it in this game, which could be a townie not wanting to self-incriminate themselves, or it could be a scum not wanting to defend themselves so much that (as ZachRules said) their focus has been lost from 'scum-hunting'. I know for sure that my vote on you isn't getting anywhere for now though, so I'll make better use of it somewhere else.

Unvote: FakeGod

ZachRules: I'm not joining the bandwagon on you. I agree, IC status doesn't mean you should make everyone follow you as sheep. In fact, if you were scum, that would just ultimately screw all of the town players in the game over. You've answered all of the IC questions directed at you (I believe) and you post a lot with good content and intent to scum-hunt. I'm getting a decent town-read, at least for now.

Which brings me to... Tvellalot.
Tvellalot: My, my, my. Kalofer's analysis sums it up, but I have one thing to add: Even before you said third to vote on a bandwagon is a scumtell--which is absurd--you said this
[quote=tvellalot]Hmmm, SOOO...
You obviously WANT Kalofer lynched...
In light of his more recent posts (including what was obviously a joke no mafia would make) I actually think he is newb-town and just not dealing with pressure well.

I voted for him because I thought he only had 2 votes and 3 seemed a good amount of pressure.

If I had kept my vote on him, it would have only taken one more for it to stick, which is why I removed it. I don't want someone I wasn't sure of getting lynched.
You're keeping your eye on me? Think I've been flying under the radar? Bollocks.
VOTE FakeGod
You're scummy as hell. I think you and DavidParker are partners.[/quote]
Heh. Yeah. right now you seem the most scummy candidate of everyone, but you're already at L-2 and I don't want to put you up to L-1 so hastily, or a scum could just hammer you if you are indeed town. But unless you defend yourself well, my vote will be on you.

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Shit... broke the quotation. XP dang quotation marks. Here's what it should be:

Hmmm, SOOO...
You obviously WANT Kalofer lynched...
In light of his more recent posts (including what was obviously a joke no mafia would make) I actually think he is newb-town and just not dealing with pressure well.
I voted for him because I thought he only had 2 votes and 3 seemed a good amount of pressure.
If I had kept my vote on him, it would have only taken one more for it to stick, which is why I removed it. I don't want someone I wasn't sure of getting lynched.
You're keeping your eye on me? Think I've been flying under the radar? Bollocks.
VOTE FakeGod
You're scummy as hell. I think you and DavidParker are partners.

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It's a pandabear! A better question is what the hell is your avatar Fakegod? XDD

Oh, and tvell, I never actually *voted* for you. I just agreed with kalofer's argument. In fact, Nikanor just jumped up a bit on my suspicion level. You still think kalofer is scum? Do you have new evidence since your major accusation and followup on pages 6 and 10? I assume your second scumpeg is DP as you said you'd be down for a lynch on him. Do you at least have thoughts on the other players if either of these turn out to be town?

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DP, you just want anyone killed. I doubt kalofer knew that rule, but he knows it now. no damage was done and you know that. Since it appears we're either going for a DP/Kalofer/Zach lynch, and I find the latter two to be pro-town generally,
VOTE: DavidParker

Claim? You're at L-1

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I'll be out of town until tomorrow night ish. Sorry, see you all then. Haven't read the thread, I just see it's day 2 and zombehpug is dead. I don't have much time, so talk to you all tomorrow

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Hmm.. well not much discussion since I left. Nashi's hammer is interesting, but I'm not sure it's something to jump on. FakeGod has yet to post in D2, so nothing new on him. I'm not sure why kalofer thinks the nightkill implies Zach. In fact, the nightkill probably doesn't imply anyone, because the mafia may just want us to think that, or they may want us to think that they just want us to think that. It's a matter of bluffing/double-bluffing, and so nothing is certain or IMO necessarily raises the suspicion of anyone. Not sure how I could be convinced otherwise.
Out of Nikanor's 3 people he suspected, 2 of them are now dead. Not sure if that is just a coincidence or not.
Seems we have a lot of people taking v/la, unfortunate. Good thing we have a 3-week deadline.

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Theory 2 is unlikely.
In fact, basically all you are saying fakegod is asking people how likely they think each person to be scum. Not that that's a bad thing. I'm just saying, basically (7 nCr 2) = 7*6/2=21
(5 nCr 2) + (2 nCr 2) + (5 nCr 1) (2 nCr 1) = 10+1+5*2 = 21

Theories 1 and 3 are therefore equally likely, each with 10/21 probability of occurring.

That's of course, by pure chance. But I do see reasoning in tvellalot's saying theory 1 is the most likely occuring NOT by pure chance. I'm actually going to think about whether you can draw any conclusions from that (Probably not but worth a try!)

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Nah, you can't draw conclusions on it from math unless you arbitrarily decide probabilities of the three scenarios based on what your mind thinks. However, that's not a smart thing to do.

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tvell, what else do you find fantastic about nashi^2's post? I agree, it was well put, but the only thing you mentioned, I pointed out earlier. See FakeGod's quote directly above me.
And yeah fakegod, the chances will be different for everybody;
Person on the bandwagon: 2/5 , 1/15 , 8/15
Person not on the bandwagon: 6/10, 0, 4/10
That still doesn't help you though, as if you do the "math" all you do is discover, OH MY GOD! Everybody has a 1/3 chance of being scum (6 people besides you, 2 scum remain)

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Requesting v/la from tomorrow until Tuesday. Ill be here tomorrow morning but I'm leaving for my aunts cabin. Sorry for the disturbance

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Turns out I do have internet here, so I'll just come on and point out a few things (just got done swimming on the lake ).
I agree with fakegod actually, nikanor has been looking scummy to me for a long time (I FoS'd him a while ago, before the end of d1 and I still haven't forgot about that).
also, nashi, those odds are wrong. Odds are what I posted them at before, which is
Theory 1: 10/21
Theory 2: 1/21
Theory 3: 10/21
to emphasize my POINT though, this doesn't actually help you at all, because if you do the math, you get essentially what kalofer was saying.
there are 7 people, 2 of which are scum
Calculating odds does squat. I'm going with my gut on Nikanor.
VOTE: Nikanor

See you all tuesday night!

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Kalofer, tvell is correct. basically 5 nCr 2 reads 5 choose 2, which you can do in 10 ways. It's relevant because you're picking 2 for scum out of 5 people etc. The math isn't rubbish, it's pointless and a smokescreen to seeing that everyone has equal chance of being mafia.

Agreed with fakegod, vote peoples.
I'm back from vacation ^^

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What makes you so certain kalofer?
Sorry about RL nik.

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Tvell, Ive been playing a lot of epicmafia also. If you've ever seen me play as town, I'm logical and talkative. That is because in EM, discussion is focused around claims, clears, prs, and logic. Playing EM is drastically different from forum mafia. I'm typing this on my itouch, so sorry for my inability to quote you multiple times (it's a huge pain, sorry) but you say in fakegod's analysis that lurkers do not equal scum, then you say I'm probably scum for flying under the radar? Sigh.
I'm sticking with my vote on nikanor, as tvells post doesn't seem scummy, just inconsistent as usual.
FakeGod's absolutes are making me get more suspicious of him, however. Inconsistency doesn't always mean scum. Not voting doesn't mean vote: abstain. Etc.
Therefore, my two highest FoSes are nik and fakegod.

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Nikanor, people are idiots tonight, but most of the time it's fun. Play ranked, and don't expect much of unranked.
Interesting thought about the fakegod-nashi scumteam.

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If we're in setup 1, doctor and cop should both claim now.
yay we hit the roleblocker

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Reason for massclaim if you haven't already seen it:
Mafia cannot CC your mass claim. Doctor is only good to protect cop unless they're a god at predicting saves which so far they haven't been. The reason mafia cannot CC is that if they do, we lynch one claim, then another as we have a mislynch.
Anyway, if the cop has an innocent on any of the three blue claims (I claim blue, btw, I'd have already gone with my plan if I were cop or doctor), it is autowin. If they don't, we have 2 clears (Doctor and cop) and the cop will live tonight. We lynch one of the blue claims, and cop investigates one of the remaining two blue claims.
Summary: If you are a doctor or a cop right now, claim and it is autowin.

Also, if it is setup 2, there is only one mafia left so if they try to claim doc/cop it will be obvious, as the counterpart won't claim.

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Fakegod, popcorn style is pointless. Cop and doc just need to out themselves and the rest will come naturally.

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Wifom.

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a) I have an intuitive playstyle that doesn't really lend to me explaining my suspicions well. On top of that, I had a bad experience with my first game as IC. For those reasons, I'm going to shy away from teaching for a while.
b) At the time, I didn't deem anyone yet worthy of my vote. Fence-sitting on page three is hardly a vote-worthy offense, and I figured it'd be better to pressure Zach a little without placing my vote on him.

About your post, David; I think I've found a tell! I'll wait to see if it plays out, though (and this is just a note to self for when I re-read).
Zach: It's the same tell that I've figured out I can catch your wife with, as of the last game I played with her. Don't tell her, though.

Vote: FakeGod.
Yeah, really.

Early bussing? or lying about the tell?

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I agree with tvell. Right now my FoS list is Nashi first, followed by tvell/kalofer (quite a ways back though) and then fakegod.

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VOTE: Kalofer

Full list, from least suspicious to most suspicious--
FakeGod: Pioneering a lynch on the roleblocker pretty much, along with lots of protown behavior and activity. Nikanor claimed a tell on you d1, along with an early vote. I'd be surprised if you flipped scum.

tvell: Also helped the Nik lynch, along with put himself out there on page 24 or 23 or so (the post about his playstyle)

NashiNashi: Not very active, although not quite a lurker. Sitting on the fence, a lot of this is gut tell and the tell of the others innocence.

Kalofer: That logic post just reminded me a LOT about a game of EM I just played. It was a multisetup clusterfuck, and the mafia was incredibly skilled (far better than me), they provided ridiculous amounts of logic to show why it made sense I was mafia, only to be countered by the non suspect (he was cleared by afk -.-) to point out that I wouldn't go to that length when choosing the kill target. Logic like that in this scenario is all useless largely because of wifom. Anyway, your defending nik was suspicious, along with your play past d1. if you're mafia, you're a very good mafia. Also,

We need a big, chunky post from you Nik and soon.

Don't count on it.

FakeGod, when did your town read of Nashi came into play? I'm thinking the same thing as Kalofer here: you're spending an inordinate amount of time asking questions of someone you think is town.

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tvell, games of the same setup should be played in a similar opening, which is the optimal opening. If there are multiple good openings, they should be played out in one of them. Your style only works to a point in the beginning. In a game with watcher, 7 blues, and mafia, you shouldn't tell watcher to claim.. The reason why people evolve to playing a setup a certain way is because it is the smart way to play that setup.

And yep kal, we have a ML. sorry if you're town :/

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Kalofer, it's possible, but just because Nik said that doesn't mean that fakegod is scum. Scum don't always give up on their dying words. It's a good though, though.

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that sounded like I was doubting kalofer's theory--I believe it is quite possible, but not as likely as kalofer thinks.

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Heh. lol at Nashi's massclaiming. We're in worst case scenario: there aren't any PR's. if there were PR's, it would have been autowin.
Please though, feel free to claim a PR if you aren't indeed, a townie!

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I claimed VT. Look at my post right at the beginning of d1.
Kalofer's reaction to L-1 is once again, so much town. I really don't want him lynched at this point. I'd rather have nashi at L-1.

Unvote: Kalofer

VOTE: NashiNashi

It's not the cluelessness that makes you suspicious, it's also the way you claimed and the way kalofer reacted that puts him down on my FoS list.

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d3* XD. the post about massclaiming at the beginning of d3.

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That's the kind of logic I can back actually.. there's no wifom involved.
To add to that, the roleblocker would be the one bussing the Nilla, as by bussing the roleblocker, town then KNOWS that they are in either setup 1 or setup 2. Mafia doesn't want to give town info.

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Kal, FakeGod's logic isn't wifomable because if he bussed as suggested, he risked a 50% chance of town automatically winning. That's a pretty dang hefty risk. If nik and him decided to bus, Nik would have bussed FakeGod as even though Nik and Fake would know they were in setup 1 or 2, town wouldn't and they wouldn't be asking doc/cop to claim due to setups 3 and 4.
You know, at this point, even though kal has done a good job of looking town on his reactions, the logic is just too stacked up against him.
UNVOTE: NashiNashi
VOTE: Kalofer
Sorry for the wishywashy today

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Kalofer, your defense is wifomable. Fakegod's logic against you is not. Non-wifomable logic is much more sturdy than wifomable logic.
Fake's gonna learn if you're mafia from your lynch. He doesn't want nashi hammered because he thinks you're scum kalofer, and right now I think you're just yelling in a desperate attempt to not get lynched. That's one of the basic scumtells, if you were town you'd realize that we have a mislynch and it's not the end of the game if you die.

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Kal, chill. Not wanting to get lynched is scummy, because when we have a ML, town gains info from lynching a townie (Sure, it's better to lynch mafia, but tomorrow we'll have INFO.) The reason why that's a scumtell is because you're playing for your own survival instead of for the town's survival as you should be.
Kal, I'm not newb town also. I'm not as good at forum games, but you're the most useful lynch right now.

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Of course, that's a reasonable request. Tis usually how I end my games when I'm blue if town decides to lynch me.

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Also kal, it's not the end of the game if you're town. Even if fakegod is wrong, we still have another freaking lynch.
As fakegod said earlier, if you are town but the town consensus is you look scummy, you may be doing the better thing by removing yourself from the game in order to let town focus more clearly.
FMPOV, Fake is nearly clear btw. if he flipped scum I'd be incredibly surprised.

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IMO, no you shouldn't. The information of who hammers you is useful info, and in general town shouldn't self hammer (If you care to claim scum, by all means--hammer! XP).

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If Kalofer isn't scum, I'm thinking nashi is scum. Tvel hammered Nik when he could have just as easily hammered Fake. He was also not strongly leaning towards one or the other, and hammering your roleblocker is *almost* like saying "Lemme flip a coin. If it's heads, I lose! If it's tails, I have a chance" (I say almost, as it was possible mafia would hit a PR that night if we were in the PR setup) Nashi was the third on the wagon on Nik, which I believe scum might risk and hope that the townie wouldn't hammer their roleblocker though.
Kalofer, the fact that you insist on fighting death so damn much is scummy in of itself. We have a mislynch. I reiterate. We have a mislynch. We do not lose if you die and are townie.
Anyway, I believe Nashi to be scum if kalofer isn't.

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Fuck this, nobody's gonna hammer, so I will.

Unvote: Kalofer

VOTE: NashiNashi
Kal is just too good of a scum to believe if he is one, and I really want this day to get on as we're not getting anywhere. I said in my last post I believe one of Nashi and Kal to be scum, and I'd lynch either of them
Good luck town.

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Well, sorry for hammering on nashi, but he looked pretty darn scummy (I think most of agreed yesterday).
Anyway, I played a game of EM just like the 5way ML situation we had. I can see where kal is coming from; Even though it's a ML, you don't want to die when nobody has a good solid reason to believe you're scum.
Kal, if you're scum, you're one hell of a good player.

Also, as another good player said in a game where I was terribly outmatched skillwise, "It's not the read on one player, it's the read on both of them."
VOTE: tvellalot

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tvell, I had little doubt kalofer was town before that post. Now I have no doubt. Kal is clear at this point, as if he were scum he would have hammered you. Also, weren't you the one saying you were sick of things going on forever a few days ago and you really didn't care about this game at that point? Do you care now and want to win? Sure, you may have reacted strongly once to being FoSed, but kalofer made a huge hissyfit that looked 99% town.

I don't think any of us are surprised that Fake died btw. If you want to reread and make accusations, I'll be happy to defend them and offer up some against tvell.

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OK: Here comes lots of quotes XD

UNVOTE

VOTE Kalofer

- You're very scummy my friend. I smell a rat!

FoS still on DavidParker

UNVOTE

Actually, 3 votes is enough.

FoS on Kalofer & DavidParker

Posts 192 and 193. Fake pointed this out on the next page. Inconsistencies/no real reason for any FoSes

Tvell's entire analysis on post 268 is also based purely on voting, which although makes his post look indepth, it's really just a semi-short analysis. In it, he says

Nikanor - Might be townie: I'm not sure about you. You're active in discussion and voting, but you're also on the Kalofer bandwagon... I'm watching you.

Scum tends to not give a stance on their scumbuddies I believe (at least so early in the game).

Moving on, (Also, feel free to quote me tvell, I'd like to defend myself as I'm sure you would also!)

Posts 273-277, tvell has a discussion with Nik about how to bus somebody, then tvell jokingly sticks up the finger of rudeness at nik. At the time, this seemed normal, but I dunno, it could be a bit too playful?

Oh, as a side note, I think nik hardly acknowledged me all game. If someone could quote a post of him saying anything about me, that'd be great ^^

Two OMGUS votes? LMAO! I knew you two were scummy.
Zach: I've already explained twice how there is clearly a difference between "jumping on the bandwagon" and voting for someone because you think they're scummy. I explained why I voted for you. If I said it was because a magic 8-ball told me to (sorry Parker ) then that would be one thing, but I find both your voting pattern and your conduct up to now scummy.
FakeGod: You're voting for me because you think I'm "jumping from wagon to wagon?"... Are you following this game? My first two votes were completely random. My third vote I immediately retracted because Kalofer has enough pressure for such little evidence.

I'm pretty sure you two are the scum pair.

This is after tvell votes zach for being third on the bandwagon. coincidentally, tvell was third on the bandwagon. IMO, you can conclude very very little from a list of everybody's voting records.

NashiNashi: I've been very clear about my game plan up until now. The first 10-11 pages I was just throwing votes and FoSs in every direction, just to see who would take the bait. I then layed my analysis of the game on page 12 and clearly explained why I was voting for Zachrulez. I find his very quick OMGUS vote even more suspicious.
Don't vote for me, because there simply isn't a good reason to. Vote for whoever

you

think is most suspicious.

The main thing I see here, is the last line. "Don't vote for me, because there simply isn't a good reason to." There's nearly always a good reason to vote for someone.

Whoa!
I'm sorry if my wishy washy behaviour is seen as scummy. I don't think it's fair to lynch me because I was throwing around FoS and votes. Isn't that the whole idea of the game? Calling people scum clearly doesn't mean anything if you have no evidence, which i've openly admitted I don't. I think you're taking a lot of what I've said out of context and it's probably going to get me lynched now, but I'll remember for next time. If you want to win this game, be a loser and fly under the radar. Don't call anyone scum. Don't switch your votes around. Don't come up with ridiculous theories in an effort to get the game going. You all suck.
How do I build up a case to defend myself when there's nothing to defend?
GTFO.

If you want to win this game, fly under the radar. This is day 1, where town has 2 mislynches. Tvell still had a high chance of winning as town. As scum, not so much.

FakeGod, Zachrulez, Kalofer and anyone else who votes for me because of these two reasons:
-I said being third on the bandwagon is scummy and then I voted for Zachrulez third.
-I'm jumping from wagon to wagon.

...

You are morons.

UNVOTE
VOTE Abe27342

He votes me. I was third on the wagon--I still believe being third on the wagon is absolute BS.

Ooooo... Look at that! Another suspicious play from tvellalott. "LYNCH 'IM QUICK Y'ALL! HE'S A WITCH!"

But get this:
My reason for voting for Zachrulez was that he hasn't been the first person to vote for anyone. It wasn't a very strong point. He's broke that cycle. For now, 'nuff said.
Abe27342 comes out of nowhere and calls ME suspicious? ME? GTFO. I better not say you're scummy though, because that's a scumtell apparently.

When tvell gets pressure, he gets pissed apparently.. Kalofer's reaction was a TON different. Btw kal, if you still find me suspicious for my early vote on tvell, it's because I wanted to clear you. I was almost positive you were town, and if you were scum, hell you deserved the win anyway.

Since I don't have much to go on..
VOTE: NashiNashi for dropping the hammer on a townie.

You had the entire d1 to go on..

I bring to your attention post 485 and tvell's followup post 486. By saying theory 1 is more probable, he implies that he is less likely to be scum.

510 and 511:

Obviously the games on this forum (at least this one) are a lot more serious than the other forum I'm playing on. I've finished at least 3 mafias in the time this one has been going, so I suppose my impatience is probably making me look scummy.
Regardless.... UNVOTE: FakeGod

I'm returning to the position I had at the end of the last day phase. I don't particularly care if you pack of fence-sitting chickens think that me changing vote after vote is scummy. It isn't. The only way to apply the pressure is to put your vote on someone, isn't it? So when someone comes out with a good long theory and it sounds good, hell yeah I'm going to vote, especially if they're too pussy to vote themselves. This is ridiculous. It's like a bit circle-jerk here and I'm standing in the middle, just like Parker was last round.
Like FakeGod, I don't really care if I get lynched. Not only will it prove how stupid certain doubters are, but I want to get a game under my belt so I can go and play bigger theme games.

You all need to wake up and look at who is trying to not get voted for, flying easily under the radar, instead of who is throwing off BS 'scum-tells' which mean nothing.

VOTE: Abe27342 for continuing to lurk. If I was mafia, I'd be lurking, waiting patiently while the townies fought it out amongst themselves. If you had enough time to come and tell us you were going away, you should have thrown down a vote or a theory or something. Zachrulez did.

Oh crap, Abe27342 was really active on the last page >_<
I feel stupid now. I should have checked before I wrote that LMAO!

Inconsistencies, along with implying he isn't scum subtlety

What I'm more interested in is why Tvel picked Abe over Nikanor. He really hasn't said that much about Nikanor, but he's in a pretty similar position to Abe with his overall activity level at this point.

This is simply not true. Nikanor was a hell of a lot more active than Abe DP1 and because of that I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt for his lack of activity the last couple of pages...

Defending nik and attacking me. Note that tvell's vote is on me over nik this whole time right up until the end of d2 where he hammers nik.

Having played so many games with roles and storylines, at this point I just don't care about this game.
Having said that, I am going to tell you all why you think I'm scummy: because my playstyle stands out.
I've looked at this game subjectively and I can see why I'm apparently "legitimately scummy".
HOWEVER
I've been playing a SHITLOAD of epicmafia lately and my scum-hunting skills have massively improved VERY quickly.

So, here it is, in order of scumminess...

tvellalott

: Me. I have encouraged voting, applied liberal and even pressure to most played, discouraged lynching DavidParker and have listened to other peoples theories.

Zachrulez

: Well, I clashed with Zach a bit earlier in the game and I don't think he has gotten over that. I see him as pro-town.

FakeGod

: I have FoS'ed the crap out of FakeGod and he has taken his lynch off me and started applying it to lurkers. I've learnt that lurkers =/= scum. I don't know... Probably town.

Kalofer

: Classic newb sheep, which doesn't really indicated anything. Fence-sitter and generally useless. Having said that, I still think he is reasonably pro-town. I'm trusting my gut on this one. :/

Nikanor

: Again, I just don't know. Was very pro-town first day, but lead the lynch on DavidParker and has been reasonably quiet so far today, even when pressure started to be applied. Understandably, he has life issues going on. Maybe scum, maybe town. We need a big, chunky post from you Nik and soon.

Abe27342

: My most last FOS still stands. I think you're flying under the radar and being generally useless. Probably scum.

NashiNashi

: Based on my recent experience, newb, unroled mafia tend to play exactly like you are. Flying low under the radar and when it comes to the crunch, they always seem to be lynching townies. You hammered Parker, which isn't a DEFINATE scum-tell and now you're on another bandwagon.

UNVOTE: Abe27342
VOTE: NashiNashi

Tvell says he is the least scummy in the game. This is an interesting post. He still has yet to decide about nikanor--he doesn't want to commit to a vote as scum to bussing. He waits until he sees the hammer is inevitable, and finally thinks he might as well do it himself to earn town creds.

I suppose that's enough for now--sorry for basically spamming the thread with all of tvells posts, but hey, you wanted my thoughts. I'll look at day3 in a while, although I mainly just remember kal freaking out

[Abe27342]

Tvell, of course I am. You can put your vote on kalofer if you'd like, but he's cleared.

Kal, it's not that big of deal if you hammer wrong, it's just one game on the newbie forum.

[Abe27342]

Wasn't the best move kal, I agree. I actually thought nashi was scum--he acted a lot scummier than tvell, and I really believed you were town, so I didn't want my vote on you much longer. Day 3 also really wasn't getting anywhere.
If it helps, I immediately attempted to clear you, which is quite a bold move to make as both town and scum. Town for obvious reasons, but if I scum would I really want a cleared person on lylo? Up to you to make that call.
Either way, where is tvell?

[Abe27342]

Just sayin', I just realized I know Fake IRL. lol. but I didn't know that until today, so don't worry no cheating going on. small world, eh?
Anyway, I'm going to explain my behavior yesterday in case neither of you caught my semi explanation before.
Kalofer just leaks town as I've heard other people put it. I may have voted him yesterday and sheeped fake (sorry about that) but after his reaction I knew he was town. Also, nobody hammered him, so there was no real reason to take my vote off of him. In the end, I realized nobody was going to lynch kal, and I'd really rather have him around for endgame as a clear, which I made sure to establish right at the beginning of the day, so I decided to hammer Nashi.
As to my saying we should use the mislynch, that's what I truly believe, as long as town has a good reason to kill the person with the mislynch. The error I was clearly making was killing someone I thought was town, just to confirm they were town--even though it sounds absurd when you say it, lots of people subconsciously fall into this trap. The cold hard logic also made sense, even though everything about what kal said seemed townie. I'm all for using a mislynch; just not on a town player. That's why I hammered nashi. Nashi was scummy.
Also, tvell, your point about how fake was killed because he would have seen how obvious it was I was scum is absurd. Any of us would have killed Fake as scum simply because he was the most clear. Nobody FoSed him. The only time scum wouldn't kill a clear is when they are wifoming, and clearly that didn't go on here (He's dead and confirmed townie).


Anyway, Your points about d2, I don't remember FoSing fakegod d2. I was on nik all the way. I know I FoSed him d1, but I don't believe d2.

Tvell, at your first point, I didn't come out of nowhere and agree with you, 100 posts earlier I said this:

Ahh, Kalofer, yeah, I misread his post. I thought FakeGod was calling me a lurker, which he wasn't. His lack of scum-hunting is still something to be worried about, however.
As to Nikanor voting Kalofer, I'm going to go check out Kalofer's posts again, because I haven't found him very suspicious though. I think largely the reason of that was him defending a few people, but that could (as Nikanor pointed out) be a psychological play.

I believe that should cover all of your points attacking me. I'm not going to argue with your points defending yourself, because they're true.

[Abe27342]

^^that quote is on page 6.

[Abe27342]

1) Nashi/Abe - for now I see either of the 2 having an equal chance of being scum mostly due to the fact that tvell and Fake, both of whom were critical in the lynching of a scum have a higher chance of being town.
2)Fake/Tvell - Once again, I can't decide who is scummier than the other but both seem relatively town (if I choose to disregard my paranoid feelings) as both have been critically involved in the lynching of a scum.

There are 5 people left now, one of which is a scum. Up until D2 I thought FakeGod was a more likely candidate due to the reasons I mentioned, as well as the peculiar tendency of asking people to not lynch the most scummy person under the reason of "we'd get more information if we lynch someone less scummy". Yet FakeGod also have led the lynching of Nik. It is still possible that he is the scum who have gained a good deal of credibility by doing this, but right now I'm really leaning town on him. The only other strange thing is that being THIS active, I found it strange that the mafia killed Zach over FakeGod last night. You'd think FakeGod is the biggest scum threat right now.

Right now my top FOS is Tv. I have read town in the first two days thinking lots of his behavioru was based on being new at Mafia, a bit like Kalefor or myself. Yet out of all three of us who played pretty badly, he's the only one who self-confessed to be a more regular player. So in that case, I wonder how much of the over the top hissy fits were for show.

FakeGod is not the biggest scum threat at all, he lynched Nik on a lurking basis and because of his gut feeling which I consider lucky, the only special thing about Fake is how he latches onto a person and just doesn't let go. If he was the biggest scum threat he'd be right in voting for me which he isn't. I find this post flawed (and the spelling mistakes make me think you were typing in a hurry?) and as a result will vote for you.

VOTE: NashiNashi

THERE YOU GO, I JUST LEFT A PERSON ON L-1, IS THAT BIG ENOUGH REASON FOR SOMEONE TO HAMMER ME NOW???

Hmmm…. You vote for NashiNashi because you want to be lynched and because of spelling errors… This put NashiNashi briefly to L-1 but then…

UNVOTE: NashiNashi

I've just had a revelation!!!
Either Fake is one of the biggest idiots ever, or he's scum. I mean seriously, who would start and push (and I mean PUSH!) a wagon on a lurker, that requires a hell of a lot of belief doesn't in it, and those are the things about starting a wagon on a lurker, you don't truly believe it and you don't truly wanna kill the guy do you? You just want to add pressure. But Fake didn't JUST add pressure, he pushed it to the end. Furthermore when continually criticised by me he finally said it was a "gut" feeling. AND HE STILL KEPT PUSHING FOR THE WAGON. and now when Nik flipped scum we all think he's town and I'm guessing that's exactly what he wants us to think. Let's recall Nik's dying words: "good luck town, you're gonna need it", an implication of a hidden threat. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if Nik (an SE) told Fake to start the wagon on him in night 1 and thus gain permanent town cred. Then Zach is nightkilled both to probably frame me AND because zach was a pretty reasonable guy who was an IC AND also questioned Fake and as such would perhaps be a bigger threat to Fake if left alive than me. Then there is the fact that Nik voted for Fake at the end without saying anything that might give the whole operation away, thus making himself seem scummier AND giving more town cred to Fake.

VOTE: FakeGod

I WILL DIE WITH THIS BELIEF!!!!

Again, you reference your own lynching after your revolation. You openly admitted during day phase one that you use the “Lynch me now, I DON’T CARE!!!!” defence to stop yourself from being lynched. Now you’re doing it again. Fake replies to this and destroys your last theory. So you…

You know tvell I have NEVER seen you come into any contact with nikanor excluding the hammering you did on him. I am right now seeing this to be a large scum tell because it somehow seems to fit your psychology ( to me at least) but more importantly because of what you said in #612, which goes something like this: "I was also framed", but I don't think you were framed, I think you're trying to build sympathy out of my misery. You hammered Nik to gain town cred and so that people could forget the FoS's on you and you killed Zach because he wanted to push the most for your lynch and because it would frame me. So right now I think you have a fairly large chance to be scum and I tihnk your lynch will be more useful than mine, but I guess I won't be able to convince Fake or Abe who don't seem to be very much into the digging deep business.

Vote:Tvellalot

You also seem pretty smug to me this day as opposed to yesterday and the day before that when you were raving like a lunatic.
So while I still support a Fake lynch I admit that the possibility of him being town is weighing on me and if he is town, I don't think we'd get very far (because we've basically done the mafia's work for them). I think town could learn a lot more from a Tvell lynch on the other hand.

You know Kalofer, I DID interact with Nikanor, though I admit it was minimal. I’ve already explained this too. During day one I was pretty sure he was town. He seemed very pro-town, even with the lynching of DP. Day 2 he was hardly here to interact with. I didn’t lynch him because I thought he was scum, but because I thought FakeGod was more useful to town. Turned out to be a very wise choice. I don’t want people to forget my FOS’s and I’ve repeatedly mentioned them. Remember WHY they FOS’ed me. Because of my wishy washy voting and crazy posts. That isn’t the case at this point of the game. Now I’m being calm and analytic. As for being ‘smug’, well maybe a little bit. I did hammer the roleblocker by fluke.
The point here is that YOU are now the one raving like a lunatic and wishy washy voting.
I’m not going to hammer you, yet. But I’ve lost my town-certainty with you.

You seem so desperate NOT to get lynched Kalofer that it's hard not to let doubts about your townieness creep in...

@Kalofer Pity that in order for that to work you shouldn't have told anyone that you are requesting modkill to get hammered.

I have stated my reason why I don't want to vote for Kalofer. Tvellalott, what's your reason?

Some like... I'VE BEEN SAYING I THINK HE IS TOWN THIS ENTIRE GAME.
I'm tired of this.

You're much scummier than Kalofer NashiNashi.

3 sequential posts of tvell from yesterday. Tvell, can you answer a question without getting indignant?

[Abe27342]

Tvell, my opinions changed. I had an epiphany of a sort. I took my vote off of kal when I realized that. Fake wasn't gonna stop tunneling. He's actually pretty stubborn ;p (sorry if you're reading this ^^)
When did I say I wanted to hammer kalofer because I was sure he was town?
When did I say I'd rather have kalofer around than fakegod? I'd be happy with either of them, because they'd both be clears IMO.

I did confirm kalofer in a risky play, but hey, less risky than the chance of 50% autoloss you faced when hammering nik, hmm? I've said this a million times and I'll say it again, I had every bit of confidence that kalofer was town coming into today. Why else would I immediately throw up a vote on you tvell?
Please, if you're going to make accusations against me at least quote the part where I say it or say what post that's from.

[Abe27342]

GG then, Tvell's scum.

I very very very strongly disagree with you on to hell with gut tells. Gut tells are what win you games; I hardly ever find myself underthinking a game. I always overthink it, end up not going with my gut, and losing. Scumtells are more BS IMO. Some of them are valid, but there is no universal scumtell. They vary from player to player.

[Abe27342]

It's not probability, although occasionally math enters the game.

[Abe27342]

YOU WON'T SEE ME TOMORROW CAUSE YOU'LL BE DEAD
LOLS
Oh, mod is this discussion against the rules? Sorry if it is, but game's over sooo yeah

[Abe27342]

Eh, Kal I didn't play d4 the best and hammering nashi was a bad play also. My main fault would be not saying that I was pretty sure you were townie earlier. It looked way too erratic to d3 be voting you the whole day and then d4 say "OMG HE'S TOWN." Even if I did clear you, it was incredibly inconsistent.
DP, I do not regret voting tvell at the beginning of the day. I regret d3 and keeping my vote on kal even though I knew he was town.

Oh, and at tvell, the only way you didn't lose if we were in the PR setup is if you killed cop/doc the night after nik died. I can see how clearly there weren't any PR tells though. good move.

Finally, Nashi, don't expect anything out of unranked on EM. Ranked has some pretty decent games, and if you play with a few of your friends, you can have great games. (I had one in the multisetup with 7 people and daystart, it was nearly a 1.5 hour long game with the last day 3way lylo like 25-30 minutes long)
Oh, and I always try and go with my gut in the end.

[Abe27342]

Eh, there are quite a few noobs who play comp, but you can normally tell if the people you're playing with are idiots and if they are leave the game. If you play enough you'll get a sense and recognize some good players' names anyway.
And nik, sorry we weren't a scumteam