NY 117: The Vanillaside (Game over)

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Vote: Incongnito

For winning all of his scum games.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

HEY GUYS WE'RE STILL VIGGING RECK.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

VOTE: MEHPLUSRAWR

CAUSE YOU SAID NO GRAMMAR, YET YOU FAILED TO END YOUR SENTENCE WITH A PREPOSITION

THOUGH YOU DID LEAVE OUT A COMMA

You sir, have forgotten to capitalize your sentences and put your post in all caps.

Unvote, Vote: DemonHybrid

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

*Looks at the Awesome Sauce that MehPlusRawr made.*
*Get some hot steak and try the sauce.*
*Spit out the steak because he thought it was gross.*

@MehPlusRawr: Your steak sauce sucked.

Unvote, Vote, MehPlusRawr

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

I think we need to use the bankable idea to the towns advantage.

No we shouldn't lynch immediately, that would be horribly detrimental to the town, but I think it would be a good idea to not wait until the deadline to lynch. If we were to wait until the deadline, we would start to notice the Days to decline and we would have less time to find scums overall. I'm going to do some math here.

Day 1 deadline: Twenty-one days
Day 2 deadline: Fifteen days
Day 3 deadline twelve days
Day 4 and onward deadline: nine days

Twenty-one days is standard for most Mafia games. Lots of time, right? However, that will start to decline. Luckily, every day that is not used gets carried on to the next Day. We need to use this wisely.

My suggestion for the first day is to lynch around six days before the Day 1 deadline. Doing some math, this rounds up to 29% of the time saved, which would put us in a position where we can use the same amount on Day 2.

We will still need to conserve, however. Day 2 and Day 3, we should consider conserving as close to the 29% of a Day deadline as we can. Doing this will leave us with this result:

Day 2: Twenty-one days (29% of Day 1 conserved, lynched six days before deadline)
Day 3: Eighteen Days (29% of Day 2 conserved, lynched six days before deadline)
Day 4: Twelve Days (28% of Day 3 conserved, lynched five days before deadline)
Day 5 and onward: Nine Days

This looks a lot better to you, doesn't it? This will give us more ability to scum hunt in a longer period of time and benefits town more then scum, so we don't have to rush nearly as much.

Any opinion on the idea? When do you think we should lynch on each Day?

---

@SSBF: Why did you vote MPR?

One it was because it was RVS. Two was to help form a bandwagon on him to see how he would react. So far, it's working. Like for example:

Oh, hey, I don't feel like shouting. Let's wagon someone else. I have a feeling this MPR dude is town.

Why is he concerned about a bandwagon that isn't even based on him being scummy? It's not like we're planning on lynching him yet.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

And yeah, anyone who gets voted 5 times in 5 posts gets concerned,

I don't see a good reason to be concerned over a bandwagon that started over RVS that put you only at L-3. Since we're starting to move away from RVS, I highly doubt you'll be quick lynched anytime soon.

And no, I'm not *concerned* that I'll be lynched, as such. I figured that I should comment on the fact that I'm the closest to dying as of yet.

Did we ever say that you were concerned about being lynched? The best I could find was that you were concerned over a RVS bandwagon. Also, I'm not sure how the "Let's wagon someone else!" comment was related to commenting on you being the closest to being lynched. I think you're overreacting on the situation.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Korts: Keeping xRECKONERx alive until endgame will be a very daunting task to do. We do not want to lynch him for sure and we obviously cannot afford him to be NK'd. With no protection role for the town, scum is going to be hard-pressed to keep him around, especially if he were to give his all to help the town. Prehaps him being completely useless until endgame would help his chance of survival, as scums like useless townies, but we all know how much we hate useless confirmed townies.

Basically, the chances of xRECKONERx living to endgame is very, very slim.

However, while we don't want xRECKONERx to die, one benefit of his death by scums hand is that scum would have to give up one of there power role and become Mafia Goon. It would suck to see a confirmed townie die, but at least scum loses a power role, so that's something to gain from xRECKONERx's death.

Either way, the Town Power Roles should do nothing to him during the Night.

And I had another realization. With a Vigilante, if we lynch scum ToDay, kill scum ToNight, and lynch scum agan Tommorow, town wins. Yes, a Day 2 victory for the Town is possible. But we need to be completely accurate with lynching and the Vigilante killing scums and hope that the Vigilante doesn't die.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

The wagon was growing too quickly for my liking. And yes, you did say that I was concerned about being lynched, in this quote.

If the bandwagon was growing too quickly, you would be at L-2/L-1 already. The town would not be dumb enough to put someone that close to a lynch this early in the day.

Oh, hey, I don't feel like shouting. Let's wagon someone else. I have a feeling this MPR dude is town.

Why is he concerned about a bandwagon that isn't even based on him being scummy? It's not like we're planning on lynching him yet.

I asked you why you were concerned about a bandwagon that wasn't even based off your scumminess, not why you were concerned about being lynched.

It's not even close to an overreaction, either. It translates to "Eh, I'm getting voted, but it's RVS so it doesn't really matter. Anyways, I always like having other people getting lynched over me, because I'm always confirmed FMPOV as whatever alignment I am, and lynching people of my alignment brings me further from winning!"

Wait, didn't you admit to being concerned about being bandwagoned? Now you're changing the story by saying "I'm getting votes, but since it's RVS, it doesn't matter.". Then why did you have a problem with your bandwagon going "too quickly" in the first place?

MPR's Meta Tip of the Day: If I'm posting, I'm town. If I'm not posting, I'm either town or scum.

Sorry, but I'm not playing the "town meta" card for that. Just because you're active doesn't mean that you're going to flip town. Argue all you want, but you can be extremely active but still be scum. Remember this game? You were a Serial Killer, yet you've made around 150 game-related posts in the game.

You consider a second vote on a player a bandwagon vote?

I personally think that any votes that isn't the first vote on a person can be considered some way or form a bandwagon vote. It just becomes more apperent with latter votes.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

SSBF: Do you have a recent scum game you can link me to? More than one would be awesome.

I have two scum games so far:
Smash Bros. Mafia: This was in Smash World Forums. The game went horribly for me.
Mini 988: Small Town Mafia: First on-site game where I was scum. Notice that my game considerably improved.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

ugh... 3 pages while I'm asleep. Not cool guys.

Vote: Incognito

You didn't say hi.

Just want to say that we're out of RVS already. Do you have anything you want to say about the game?

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

You being out of the RVS doesn't mean I am prohibited from my random vote.

By the time you've made your first post, RVS was already finished up and we were finally getting something to work on. All you needed to say was that you were catching up and that would be good enough as long as you actually come through with contents.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Considered me surprised that RayFrost actually defended my actions in #98. But I don't have a soft-spot for this, especially since it doesn't really make much sense that he is defending some of my actions, yet is voting me at the same time. Definently will keep a closer eye on him.

I'm also surprised that vezokpiraka hasn't shown up yet. Even thought he is generally considered useless, it's not like him to not have at least made one post, even thought the game has just started.

---

The first bolded quote: How does he know what scum's going to do? Furthermore,
that's -quite- a lot of speculation of the twist we have in this game.

These are likely circumstances that would happen with xRECKONERx, not something that will happen. I am trying to find a conclusion that will be the most likely condition for xRECKONERx to actually survive and be able to help the town.

The second bolded quote: He seems to be very set on how long this game should last. Call it gut, but that kind of speculation subconsciously rings out as somewhat scummy to me. It shows eagerness for the game to be over.

So let me guess, you don't want to find an easy way out to get rid of all three scums? I am not asking the town to rush the Days, as explained before, I want to give the town plenty of time to find scums. On top of that, this would also force the town to find two scums in one Day, one to lynch and one to vig during the Night.

RVS ends for different people at different times. You can't dictate when someone's RVS is over.

I understand that I can't, but staying in RVS-land while everyone else is looking for scums is not something that I like. This encourages active lurking and gives us little to work on. I'm not going to harp on RayFrost for the RVS issue anymore since he's finally producing contents, but I didn't like his RVS post at the time.

This entire post scream wrongness to me.

The first 3/4 of the post is pretty much stating the obvious on not lynching immediately and not waiting until deadline. The whole 29% thing isn't very helpful either... seriously. It's an empty post up top.

His response to socrates on his vote was fine

, but his comment about MPR seems like a lot of stretching.

Wait a minute. You said that this entire post contained of wrongness, yet you said my response to socrates on my vote was fine. That indicates that not everything about my post is wrong, these two things kind of contradict each other. Defense below:
- Point me to one person before that post about the bankable days who suggested that we

both

do not lynch as soon as possible and not wait until deadline. I honestly doubt that was super obvious to everyone.
- About the 29% thing, lynching when we have around 29% of the deadline left will give town more days to find scums overall, leaving more room to scum hunt and less rooms for mistakes.
- How is my comment regarding MehPlusRawr streching? I was responding directly to that post and expressing that I didn't like the post at all.

This looks like not reading hybrid's posts - it can be seen that hybrid said that he's concerned/worried about being lynched

Exactly why do you think that I was skimming DemonHybrid's post? I was responding to the same quotes, but wanted to look at it more.

I beg to differ on the first point - it's happened in the past... even in games I'm in. Second quote - two people can read the same thing and get something different out of it, your post implies the bandwagon will lead to a lynching, which would be the concern about the bandwagon in of itself (which I think is what MPR read as well)

Usually, accidental quick hammers happen within newbie games or intentional scum quick hammers. These put a lot of heat on the scum if they intentionally did it and they are usually lynched without hesistation. Sure there are exceptions to the rule, but considering nearly everyone here has some form of experience with Mafia, I honestly doubt people would be stupid enough to quick hammer.

As for the second point, I did not imply that a bandwagon automatically leads to a lynch. I understand that bandwagons =/= lynches. If I did say that MehPlusRawr was concerned about being lynched, I would have said that he was concerned about being lynched.

---

If you do that, I reserve all rights to push for your death, mmmkay?

We are not trying to kill xRECKONERx here. He is a confirmed townie and we should treat him as such.

How likely do you consider each other to be scum?

Based off the argument that arose between me and RayFrost, If I had to guess between which two people were the most likely of different alignments, it would be those two. I'm leaning town on DemonHybrid and leaning scum on RayFrost as I personally thought DemonHybrid's argument made more sense then RayFrost and I thought RayFrost's defense of me in some areas was pretty unecessary.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Mod: Please delete the one post with the username The Master Hand. This is the exact same post, so keeping the other one would be useless.

Strangely, I get the message; 'you can only delete your own posts'. It will just have to be.

- Hoopla

1. That's semantics. If something "screams wrongness" it means I dislike it. Would you prefer that I slightly altered it to say "the majority of this post screams wrongness" instead?

Yes, because it makes more logical sense and it wouldn't look like a contradiction.

2. I hadn't noticed the bankable deadlines - I was considering raw play in that, in general play, it is crucial to not lynch early or late, making the whole discussion over it by you rather pointless. I repeat: the obvious play for town is to not lynch as soon as possible and to avoid a deadline lynch.

Most people tend to lynch when there's less then fourty-eight hours left in the deadline. That's very close to a deadline lynch. Lynching six days before the deadline is still relatively close to the deadline, but it's not a deadline lynch either.

3. Even with bankable deadlines, I don't see much point in carefully planning out the deadlines to try and find an optimal time spread - it will change depending on new information anyway, making it too variable to matter.

Given the player list, I find it highly unlikely that we'll receive a replacement due to flaking anytime soon. Even with replacements, they do not = deadline extension unless the deadline is very close to the deadline and right now, I'm not seeing that happen in this game yet. Also, planning on when to lynch can give us more time in the long run to find scums.

His post doesn't display a worry about his wagon past it being on him - MPR's PoV would be that he was town, so wanting a wagon on somebody else is a natural follow through regardless of how concerned one was about the wagon.

Wanting a wagon on someone else means that you want pressure reduced on yourself and when done later in the game then when he did it, it becomes a lot more evident and a lot more scummier. Considering that he did it during RVS, I take it as mildly scummy, but it becomes a serious scum tell later on.

When hybrid had quite clearly stated that MPR was

concerned

worried about being lynched

This is wrong. DemonHybrid stated that he didn't like how MehPlusRawr dropped his yelling act by the time that post came along. He also stated that he thought MehPlusRawr was scum at the time, so he kept his vote on him until switching to me later yesterday.

First bit: accidental hammers can happen from people not knowing the vote count as well (and has happened outside of newbie games that I've been in).

That is because they didn't read the last vote all the way up to the latest post before accidentally hammering and I honestly doubt most of those accidental hammer happened during RVS. They need to read before hammering anyone.

Second bit: That doesn't even counter my point that people can misunderstand what is said quite easily. (probably aren't countering this because it's a fact...)

Everyone view things differently, that is a fact that I will give you, but it is not a fact that bandwagons will lead to lynches. Are bandwagons necessary for lynches? Yes they are, but not all bandwagons will lead to lynches.

---

Too many walls of text.
If you can tell me it would be very helpful.

Don't expect us to do your work for you. 150 posts is not really that much to look over and I highly doubt you'll spend over thirty minutes looking over the thread, so there isn't an excuse for this.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

You're not in this game.

Sorry about that, accidentally posted with my modding account for an ongoing game. I need to check my account before posting

anything

.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Unvote
Vote: Vezo

Right now I'm just following Socrates and Spyre BTW.

To be honest, this doesn't really sit well with me. Now granted, I don't have a problem with voting vezokpiraka, as I am suspicious of him. However, for you to follow up Socrates and SpyreX on voting vezokpiraka without really giving additional reasons of your own definently doesn't scream "town" to me.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Does that make me town or scum?

Right now, I personally have a null leaning town read on you. However, I personally disliked ISO: 10 as stated before.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Unvote, Vote: vezokpiraka

I still think that MehPlusRawr is suspicious, due to earlier posts, but he has been playing a more pro-town game recently.

vezokpiraka is a lot worse. He's currently putting forth the minimal effort possible, showing a lack of care for the game. His response to pressure is much worse then MehPlusRawr's, who at least put forth effort toward defending himself. He has still not answer Socrates's question on who else is scum.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Hey, Incognito, you were a reviewer for this game...what sort of thoughts do you have about the set-up in its current state from your unique standpoint?

Since Korts reviewed the game as well, I'd also like to hear his answer on the same question.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@vezokpiraka: Way to completely dodge DemonHybrid's question. I really did not like the AtE that you've made when you said "Go ahead and lynch me!". You also claim to care about the game, yet has done nothing for the town.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

vezokpiraka's PBPA of DemonHybrid (hopefully) shows that he is willing to contribute to the game after all, but not exactly one of the better PBPA's I've seen. The post is strechted out way too long and he could have easily condensed the size by just linking to DemonHybrid's ISO or at least quoting the part he disliked. The parts where he gives DemonHybrid townie points and the part where he quoted a post where he couldn't make of could easily have been cut off.

Still happy with my vote on him.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Hmph.
I think i misplaced Supersmash on the last list so he's the probable scum on vezo IMO.

Care to explain why I'm the most likely scum on the vezokpiraka bandwagon?

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

SSBF's reasons for still voting vezok suck. Notice how he doesn't rip apart any part of vezok's PBPA, but rather says "the post could've been shorter and he gave DH townie points, so scum."

This is vezokpiraka's case against DemonHybrid, I'm not going to attack vezokpiraka's case on him, he can do that himself (And he has already proven that). And this is coming from a person who has not read vezokpiraka's ISO/DemonHybrid's rebuttal.

PAGE 10 OH BABY HELL NAW:

UNVOTE:
VOTE: SSBF

What is it about page 10 that is so scummy to you that caused you to switch your vote?

UNVOTE, VOTE SUPERSMASH

Okay then, mind explaining why I am worthy of your vote? Same question to vezokpiraka.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

My claim is a Town Tracker. I am able to track anyone that I choose and see who they target, but I am not informed if my action is redirected, nor do I have a gun. I win if all scums are elminated.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

I agree when we should stop the bandwagoning all the time in here. The frightening amount of bandwagoning that's going on with this game could potentially out all the PRs if we are not careful here. My bandwagon already forced me to claim my role and I really don't see the case on me.

Also, I'll need to re-read the thread, especially during the Night. I really do not have that many solid conclusions on players yet due to the large amount bandwagoning that's been going on lately and hopefully this should lead me to some decent reads. The person I consider to be the most suspicious will be the person I track.

---

Especially this post and this post, to a degree, offer us a lot of nothing while giving his posts quite a lot of volume. However, the interesting part is how he doesn't follow up with ANY of his "ideas". His day-rationing plan went ignored and, unlike Korts, he's not following it up, not bringing it up again, which seems to indicate that he didn't really believe what he was saying.

Regarding my day-rationing plan, I did bring it up a few times between me and RayFrost, so I didn't just completely leave it behind.

However, I am not going to spend the majority of my post (At least for Day 1) saying "Please listen to my day-rationing plan!", when I know that there are more important things to do. Like for example, find scums.

Bolded the important part. There were arguably other players at this point in the game who were putting forth minimal effort, such as Ellie and Nacho, and yet SSBF did not point them out and wagoned onto Vezok.

And I argue otherwise. vezokpiraka at the time has done absolutely nothing productive for the town. Nachomamma8 gave a decent explanation for why he voted for DemonHybrid. Ellibereth gave his town and scum reads, and asking us to stop talking about RVS ending. vezokpiraka did litterally nothing.

This is where he outlines his reasons for keeping his vote on Vezok. His reasoning(or rather lack of it):

Translation: "my initial reason for voting Vezok(his lack of effort) is pretty much disproven. I need a new reason to appear consistent so I will attack his content."

The majority of my reason toward voting vezokpiraka are reasons that people have already said, I'm not going to simply parrot them to make my case look better then they really are.

I want you to read through his posts in ISO if you haven't yet. It reveals a sort of...controlled, careful play. It doesn't read as town to me. This is more gut than anything to be honest but I rely a lot on my gut when I play so this makes sense to me.

So me attacking MehPlusRawr, bringing up the day-rationing idea, and putting forth effort toward refuting points made against me is part of a careful, controlled play?

---

And abandoning a wagon because someone said "there's scum on that there wagon!" would be really dumb considering that there is scum on EVERY WAGON EVER.

I see your point here, but not every bandwagon has scums on it. On rare occasions, all scums may avoid the mislynch bandwagon. That will probably gain them all town creds.

Stop switching wagons. You will then blaim me for waggoning.
unvote
Vote seraphim

Congratulation, you just admitted to being a hypocrite.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Is it just me, or do the reasons people have for switching get shittier and shittier as we build more wagons?

As if these weren't shitty votes-jumping reasons?

Unvote, Vote: vezokpiraka

Unvote, Vote: Seraphim

Let's be honest here, you had better reasons of your own to vote for DemonHybrid then vezokpiraka and Seraphim. At least you put up a decent case against DemonHybrid. With vezokpiraka and Seraphim, you only said a few things about them and I honestly feel that your recent votes on them were unjustified.

Although I stil don't want to be lynched.

Then why not put up a proper defense? None of the case against you has really been resolved.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

I agree with Fate here, this game is stagnating. Let's pick up the pace and get some action going.

(Goes to re-read to see what to bring up).

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

For a game filled with mostly experienced players, I was heavily disappointed with the town's play.

Still, it was fun being in this game while it lasted.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Also, I thank the mod for running this set-up. It was a solid set-up.