NY 117: The Vanillaside (Game over)

[RayFrost]

ugh... 3 pages while I'm asleep. Not cool guys.

Vote: Incognito

You didn't say hi.

[RayFrost]

k, Mpr = town.

k, elli = lacksexplanation

[RayFrost]

ugh... 3 pages while I'm asleep. Not cool guys.

Vote: Incognito

You didn't say hi.

Just want to say that we're out of RVS already. Do you have anything you want to say about the game?

You

being out of the RVS doesn't mean

I

am prohibited from my random vote.

[RayFrost]

VOTE: RAY

^5 for voting me before I've even read the thread.

[RayFrost]

\

Unvote
Vote: RayFrost

I suspect one of RayFrost/SSBF is scum. They are not scum together. RayFrost's play in this game reminds me of his play in another game where I replaced him as scum(you left me quite a shitload which I got lynched for if I recall). SSBF, on the other hand, seems rather forceful with his wording and seems to enjoy being helpful without being helpful, such as his time storage idea in his fifth post, information instead of analysis. Or rather, analysis without actual meaning.

Of the two, I will vote RayFrost for now because of my experience with his play.

I recall that game, if you mean my first IC game. Do you also recall the details surrounding it? I was in ~5 other games, at the height of my being burnt out, and it also approximately preceded my taking a vacation from mafia for two months.

And if you are judging this off of

three

posts, I find it inadequate. My posting in that game was a long sequence of promises I never fulfilled. I haven't made any this game or, really, done anything, considering I've just woken up.

[RayFrost]

You being out of the RVS doesn't mean I am prohibited from my random vote.

By the time you've made your first post, RVS was already finished up and we were finally getting something to work on. All you needed to say was that you were catching up and that would be good enough as long as you actually come through with contents.

Blegh, this is a style choice more than scum or not.

@ Seph:

Working on it atm. I was before you voted me, too :/

[RayFrost]

Ellli help me out here because I just want to slam 87 to the wall and kill it dead because stretchinggggggg

Kill it. I'm too busy to do it.

[RayFrost]

Just some thoughts that pop out at me from reading through:

This entire post scream wrongness to me. The first 3/4 of the post is pretty much stating the obvious on not lynching immediately and not waiting until deadline. The whole 29% thing isn't very helpful either... seriously. It's an empty post up top. His response to socrates on his vote was fine, but his comment about MPR seems like a lot of stretching.

This post gives me iffy feelings. I don't see how seriousness = scum, but I can see how somebody might misconstrue MPR's style change to be caused by worry about being lynched. So it leans both ways on like and dislike

This contradicts the post above it.

This looks like not reading hybrid's posts - it can be seen that hybrid said that he's concerned/worried about being lynched

Stating the obvious AND missing some key points such as (as MPR said) the redirector role...

I beg to differ on the first point - it's happened in the past... even in games I'm in. Second quote - two people can read the same thing and get something different out of it, your post implies the bandwagon will lead to a lynching, which would be the concern about the bandwagon in of itself (which I think is what MPR read as well), third quote is good, though.

Vote: SSBF

FoS: Hybrid, Elli

I've been in one too many games where Elli-town provides more useful stuff than this for me not to feel edgy about him.

[RayFrost]

Oh, : x leads to angryfaec. I didn't mean for that to be the face.

[RayFrost]

Anyway, my good fellows, I shall be heading offline for now. I have a midterm to do, you see.

[RayFrost]

Lies - SSBF has "discussed" the matter of lynching reck, how we should spend our time day by day, and the MPR wagon stuff (along with a style-wise attack on me).

You just have your MPR wagon stuff and this new attack on SSBF soon after people question / attack you about only focusing on MPR

Comparably... you would be scummy from your own standards.

[RayFrost]

Unvote, Vote: DemonHybrid

Oh, I had forgotten you were even in this game...

Hows abouts somes contents ands explanations?

[RayFrost]

Haven't read page four or five.
Why the fuck is SSBF doing IIOA?

Vote: SSBF

Oh, hey reck. What's it like to be conf-town?

[RayFrost]

It feels pretty grande, actually.

Of course, it's probably bad, because this will encourage to play as shitty as possible and not give a fuck since I'm conf-town.

If you do that, I reserve all rights to push for your death, mmmkay?

[RayFrost]

First bolded quote: Notice how I said otherwise. Spyre said I was stretching on my vote of SSBF, and my vote of SSBF was due to the Reck post.

And sure, he talked about how we should spend our time, but that post isn't really relevant to the scumminess of people nor who should vote who. It was merely a suggestion of how to use a minor mechanic of the game, so I didn't really consider it important.

Also: I never said that he's scummy ONLY because he's talking about those things and only those things. You're warping my words around a bit.

So... "aside from the other things he's said, he's only said this" - really great argument here. I'm just blown away by your genius. Care to point out which reck post? If you are talking about the only one I've commented on, it came

after

your vote, so yah.

Fair enough.

I'm pointing out standards - you are as guilty for a limited quantity of discussion as SSBF is, and you've jumped ship from MPR as it shows it's not happening to SSBF right when pressure is mounting on him, which can be seen (and is being seen by me) as opportunistic wagon hopping.

[RayFrost]

First bold: Logical clarification: I didn't say that he was scummy because and only because he was only talking about the MPR wagon and dictating RVS votes. Again, you missed the word "otherwise".

I didn't miss it. Your otherwise was in your first post in which you- bah, reread your post... I was reading it wrong. I blame having just woken up.

Second bold: I'm talking about when SSBF was speculating on Reck, not any of Reck's posts. This one:

Read again: "and my vote of SSBF was due to

the Reck post.

" More word twisting.

It's not word twisting, it's misunderstanding. Learn the difference. "due to the reck post" was read (by me) as "due to the post made by reck" rather than "due to SSBF's post regarding reck" - can you see the room for misinterpretation here, now that I've made it obvious?

Third bold: Dude, my last post before that was when I asked MPR about the contradiction. First things first; I have a life and I do things, plus I'm in 4 other games, so I don't keep up fully with every post all the time. Second, SSBF hardly had any pressure on him whatsoever when I casted my vote. In fact, he has more pressure now than he's ever had before. Point out where pressure was building on him before I made my vote on him.

1. could not the same be for SSBF?

2. socrates' post, aside from that, I was misremembering the order of our own posting - I thought my post came before yours due to the fact I had been writing it before your post was up

[RayFrost]

SSBF contributed to a big chunk of this topic's posts. He's had time to talk about other things.

So lots of posts = lots of time?

I guess that means lurkers are completely innocent if they only talk about a couple of things?

[RayFrost]

It feels pretty grande, actually.

Of course, it's probably bad, because this will encourage to play as shitty as possible and not give a fuck since I'm conf-town.

If you do that, I reserve all rights to push for your death, mmmkay?

No, you don't, because I'm confirmedtown and pushing the lynch of confirmedtown is seriously a stupid idea.

It was a joke, man. Why so serious?

[RayFrost]

Ray and Demon butting heads like this is remarkable as they are both voting for SSBF still.

How likely do you consider each other to be scum? Has this effected your read of SSBF?

I lie attacking things.

As for why demon, I'll let you know in a bit.

And there is no relation between my demon attacks and my vote on SSBF - I can have multiple suspects.

@ Reck:

I'm stupid in the morning. Sue my porphyria.

[RayFrost]

EBWOP:

Should be "like" not "lie"

[RayFrost]

Considered me surprised that RayFrost actually defended my actions in #98. But I don't have a soft-spot for this, especially since it doesn't really make much sense that he is defending some of my actions, yet is voting me at the same time. Definently will keep a closer eye on him.

It wasn't a defense of your actions. It was pointed a failure in Demon's attack. I would've thought you had learned the difference by now.

This entire post scream wrongness to me.

The first 3/4 of the post is pretty much stating the obvious on not lynching immediately and not waiting until deadline. The whole 29% thing isn't very helpful either... seriously. It's an empty post up top.

His response to socrates on his vote was fine

, but his comment about MPR seems like a lot of stretching.

1. Wait a minute. You said that this entire post contained of wrongness, yet you said my response to socrates on my vote was fine. That indicates that not everything about my post is wrong, these two things kind of contradict each other.

Defense below:
2- Point me to one person before that post about the bankable days who suggested that we

both

do not lynch as soon as possible and not wait until deadline. I honestly doubt that was super obvious to everyone.
3- About the 29% thing, lynching when we have around 29% of the deadline left will give town more days to find scums overall, leaving more room to scum hunt and less rooms for mistakes.
4- How is my comment regarding MehPlusRawr streching? I was responding directly to that post and expressing that I didn't like the post at all.

1. That's semantics. If something "screams wrongness" it means I dislike it. Would you prefer that I slightly altered it to say "the majority of this post screams wrongness" instead?

2. I hadn't noticed the bankable deadlines - I was considering raw play in that, in general play, it is crucial to not lynch early or late, making the whole discussion over it by you rather pointless. I repeat:

the obvious play for town is to not lynch as soon as possible and to avoid a deadline lynch

. 3. Even with bankable deadlines, I don't see much point in carefully planning out the deadlines to try and find an optimal time spread - it will change depending on new information anyway, making it too variable to matter.

4. The post part in question (put for personal reference)

Oh, hey, I don't feel like shouting. Let's wagon someone else. I have a feeling this MPR dude is town.

Why is he concerned about a bandwagon that isn't even based on him being scummy? It's not like we're planning on lynching him yet.

His post doesn't display a worry about his wagon past it being on him - MPR's PoV would be that he was town, so wanting a wagon on somebody else is a natural follow through regardless of how concerned one was about the wagon.

This looks like not reading hybrid's posts - it can be seen that hybrid said that he's concerned/worried about being lynched

Exactly why do you think that I was skimming DemonHybrid's post? I was responding to the same quotes, but wanted to look at it more.

And no, I'm not *concerned* that I'll be lynched, as such. I figured that I should comment on the fact that I'm the closest to dying as of yet.

Did we ever say that you were concerned about being lynched? The best I could find was that you were concerned over a RVS bandwagon. Also, I'm not sure how the "Let's wagon someone else!" comment was related to commenting on you being the closest to being lynched. I think you're overreacting on the situation.

When hybrid had quite clearly stated that MPR was

concerned

worried about being lynched

I beg to differ on the first point - it's happened in the past... even in games I'm in. Second quote - two people can read the same thing and get something different out of it, your post implies the bandwagon will lead to a lynching, which would be the concern about the bandwagon in of itself (which I think is what MPR read as well)

Usually, accidental quick hammers happen within newbie games or intentional scum quick hammers. These put a lot of heat on the scum if they intentionally did it and they are usually lynched without hesistation. Sure there are exceptions to the rule, but considering nearly everyone here has some form of experience with Mafia, I honestly doubt people would be stupid enough to quick hammer.

As for the second point, I did not imply that a bandwagon automatically leads to a lynch. I understand that bandwagons =/= lynches. If I did say that MehPlusRawr was concerned about being lynched, I would have said that he was concerned about being lynched.

First bit: accidental hammers can happen from people not knowing the vote count as well (and has happened outside of newbie games that I've been in). Scum that quickhammer will have a lot of heat on them

regardless

of your comment, but eh...

Second bit: That doesn't even counter my point that

people can misunderstand what is said quite easily

. (probably aren't countering this because it's a fact...)

[RayFrost]

Anything intresting in the last 6 pages?
I am always down for a lynch on DH

Vote DemonHybrid

Lots of interesting things starting page one all the way to page 6.

Why not read it...?

[RayFrost]

@MehPlusRawr:

Who's scum? Your wagon's gone, so you can't use "I WAS BUSY DEFENDING MYSELF" as an excuse for not producing reads. Your vote's still on SpyreX, and you haven't really commented on people's alignments. So do so.

My usual "gut glance over the playerlist" tells me that Nacho's scum(miest). Attempting to explain why is harder. Anyways. Nacho only has 4 posts, all of which are completely useless.

SSBF and DH are both really hard to read, and they're usually pretty good vigshots.

Didn't know I still had my RVS vote. Whoops.

Unvote, vote: Nacho

Vezok has five posts that are completely useless (or four if you want to count the vote as useful... somehow), so what makes nacho scummier from your PoV over vezok?

[RayFrost]

Scum will certainly try to redirect people to me, but that would involve targeting me, which involves them losing their redirector, Korts.

Seriously, me dying is a stupid idea.

Actually, the redirection doesn't count as a target, and the mafioso that does it is not vannilia'ed. I talked with hoopla about it when I signed up.

[RayFrost]

Scum will certainly try to redirect people to me, but that would involve targeting me, which involves them losing their redirector, Korts.

Seriously, me dying is a stupid idea.

Actually, the redirection doesn't count as a target, and the mafioso that does it is not vannilia'ed. I talked with hoopla about it when I signed up.

[RayFrost]

Well, it's definitely not worth lynching you for. It's just a waste of a lynch.

[RayFrost]

I'm a double voter!

...

...

okay, not really.

Seriously, though.

I'd forgotten nacho was in the game (again). I really don't like this, considering previous experiences with him.

Nacho: Please explain your absence

.

I'm looking forward to jack giving some content.

vezok feels like somebody that's trying to copy another person's style of play, and that's really throwing off my faith in any read I'd have for his alignment.

unvote

for now, need to get back into my head.

[RayFrost]

Fate is town.

[RayFrost]

I'll be part of the caps lock alliance if I don't have to caps lock.

I'm not in support of a nacho wagon / lynch at this time. Not enough posts to get a read on him.

I find sera's constant use of meta so far to be bothersome.

His "meta" is based off a single game for both myself and nacho (as far as I can tell), and the meta is "these people as scum lurk" - his votes are too early to be supported by his "meta," and he fails to give any other reasoning to support his votes. This makes his votes flimsy

[RayFrost]

Argh. I don't even know what to think. Seriously. Each wagon I've seen is going far too quickly for my tastes, and I can't tell who's bussing if anybody.

[RayFrost]

I'd prefer to not risk outing a second PR.

Vezo lynch plz.

Vote: vezo

[RayFrost]

Is it just me, or do the reasons people have for switching get shittier and shittier as we build more wagons?

?

I wasn't on sera.

[RayFrost]

I'd honestly prefer to move back away from sera at the moment.

I sincerely feel that vezok's blatant wagnoing and following the town needs to be dealt with - it's scummy, and he's worthless either way.

So my argument with vezo is 1. already claimed vanilla, so no risk of outing a PR

2. he's bandwagoning shamelessly and without reason while espousing "stop the wagoning" without actually attempting to stop it

3. his level of content borders on negative - his posts are so content-less they actually suck away my memory of previous posts. no joke.

4. people are commenting on how quickly the wagons are being created, but I notice that vezo is one of the mot blatant "lolol support all wagons" people, but there is nothing being done - instead, people are opting to go with sephi first and

if he isn't a PR

lynch vezo. Why risk outing a PR if you feel vezo is scummy enough to warrant a lynch? Slow your roll and lynch for least loss and most gain.

5. Vezo's scum.

[RayFrost]

Seraphim

:

I would like to request that you don't claim for the time being. I feel that the wagon is not appropriate, and I think that your claim is the goal of the more shameless wagoners (aka scum).

[RayFrost]

BTW I can get behind a vezok lynch, but Seraphim's active and I want him to squeal first.

...

Why do you want him to claim and risk outing a

second

PR on d1 when we have quite obv claimed non-PR scum in vezo, again?

[RayFrost]

Seriously SSBF isn't getting lynched without a CC. So, don't him and haw if its the truth and do it. POWER TO THE PEOPLE.

(Double hint if there is a CC and the CC is scum don't, DONT take that vig shot. Its an Ackbarian trap).

As for Vezok:

Just look at those first posts. Look at the after the fact. Then look at the nothing and lo and behold he's there to ask for the CC and give no input.

This post and this post are making me queasy.

SpyX, why did you point out the fact vezo's being absolutely worthless while not voting him and instead just wagon hopping into seraphim?

That doesn't really match my town meta on you, and nor does it match what I thin somebody that was town would do - you point out scum but reasonlessly jump on somebody else.

[RayFrost]

Because I don't feel like fighting that fight right now - Sera isn't a bastion of town I'm going to put on the armor and go to war for.

I'd much, MUCH rather lynch vezo and I still want answers from the jumpers but even moreso I want the game to progress forward.

How about a deal, then?

We lynch vezo right quick so the game progresses and then question the jumpers the day after?

[RayFrost]

That is a good idea thinking about it. Because you get the days added to the new deadline.
Although I stil don't want to be lynched.

Unvote:
Vote: Vezok

Yeah two claims a day is good.

I like RayFrost when he's talkin sense

:goodposting:

Moar votes on the vezokscum.

[RayFrost]

Ray if you're deflecting off Seraphim scum I'm gonna be sad.

Who said that seraphim's town?

I'm saying I'd rather not risk outing a second PR to go for

possible scum

when we have

super obv scum MK2

right in front of us with a vanilla claim.

srsly

[RayFrost]

My only statement:

FFFFFUUUUUU @ people on seraphim over vezok

I don't like this lynch, but this game must go forward, and it's clear that you guys intend to stay on.

Lemme just say that I feel the scummiest people on the wagon are vezok, Jack, and MPR in that order.

Vote: Seraphim

The game must go on, and I refuse to let stagnation prevent this.

[RayFrost]

I was wrong. A lot yesterday. And I was vocal about it AND I'm really not going to fight this too much ESPECIALLY since until you see my flip NO ONE is going to take this serious.

Rayfrost is scum.
Why is he scum? Real simple. Sera wasn't an accident. Sera got daycopped. Ray

knew

that running Sera up would reveal another PR and took the power hammer because it was going to become apparent.

So, check that early wagon. That wasn't an accidental push on Sera. It was a scum one.

Seraphim - 2 (Korts, Jack). That's not a bad place to look.

Unvote, Vote: Rayfrost

Bull. Shit.

I was

against

the seraphim lynch. I wasn't stalling, I gave a good argument, and what do you fucking know... IT WAS BLATANTLY BRUSHED ASIDE. THE GAME WAS STALLING TO A HALT. YOU, YOURSELF, SAID SO. YOU DEMANDED THE LYNCH AS WELL, AND NOW TRY TO PASS BLAME TO ME FROM THE ARGUMENT OF A DAYCOP RESULT.

IF I HAD A DAYCOP RESULT I WOULD

WANT SERAPHIM ALIVE

to redirect to the innocent child that is reckoner. Don't pretend to lack the insight to see this. Your argument is based off of bullshit, opportunism, and deflection.

ARGUMENTATION FAILURE.

TRY AGAIN. This time, without some bullshit story.

I'll admit that my hammer was, in part, poor. I'll admit that I was frustrated, angry, and at a loss on the matter. I laid out an argument that pretty much none of you listened to with a full ear. Korts completely ignored it and brushed it aside as a policy lynch, you ignored the meat of my argument with the excuse of "the game is stalling, must continue," and reckoner

didn't even consider it at all

.

I'm pissed, in case that wasn't obvious. Me being pissed is a rare state. I'm trying very hard to retain my composure. This isn't a threat: it's a statement of fact.

Let me break down all holy hell regarding the wagon as well as the bull shit that's with it in a separate post.

[RayFrost]

I'm just going to start with korts here, as I feel taht his 15 posts will be the quickest to read through and deconstruct.

I'm going to ignore some of them to deal with the ones I feel are scummy. Feel free to bitch and moan abut how I left out like... two posts that seem remotely townish and a bunch of worthless ones. You might get a reply.

Quick comment on a perceived contradiction with this post and korts' later comment that his first "100% serious vote" is here.

The contradiction here is brought to light by the extensive discussion that korts made about

lots of players other than nacho

that were actually more solid than his reasonoing for his vote, not to mention the

utter and complete lack of any mention of seraphim

. This means seraphim didn't catch his eye...

at all

. Looking at the actual timing of the post, I would like to point out that this is when

tremendous pressure

and an entire wagon was forming on vezok, not to mention the attacks on DH. The sudden attack on seraphim was born from nothing new that was major since his previous postings: deflection at its finest. Not to mention that he's made multiple spiels regarding vezok, but has yet to actually vote him. Oh, he hims and haws, saying that he would,

but...

and then points to something else.

I also find the contradiction of emotion in the talk about reck's lynching or not-lynching relative to his posts regarding play to be odd, not to mention the fact that korts barely pushed his wagon on seraphim. He made a small case (small compared to the reasoning that he pointed out for disliking other players in his initial catch up post + the combined cases of other players), and he just makes small nudges, such as this one.

I would also liek to point out the

extreme disparity

between this post and this post, each made a day apart. The first one is before my own case on the vezok lynch, and he states seraphim is active (when sera hadn't really been posting at all... HMMMMMM). And then, after my case, he just goes "is this a policy lynch?" when it clearly wasn't. I'd made a case, he went against his previous comments on getting behind a vezok lynch and instead sat happily on his seraphim vote without contributing virtually anything and making weak questions with no real evidence of having actually read the case put forth or, if he had, that he had deliberately misrepresented it in order to weaken it and provide an excuse to either draw out the game or at least not change his vote.

Each instance he's spoken of vezok, he's had a distractor along with it. I'm going to call korts + vezok right here and now.

I'd also like to point out to the rest of you yet again that korts' postings have repeatedly stated that vezok is scummy, but he's also then said "BUT WAIT, LOOK OVER THERE!" instead of actually pursuing it.

I actually had this written in my head before the day started, but it changed a bit when I actually read korts' postings. He's avidly avoided joining a vezok wagon at all times: when it was starting up, an apparantly non-serious vote on nacho, and when it was peaking: a mention that he disliked vezok's play but a distractor in the form of a seraphim vote. Korts has made many mentions of vezok, not pursued them, not fully engaged in them, and held them at arms length as if hoping that the stink will not attract to him. Distancing. Defending through distraction. Ignoring cases.

[RayFrost]

Next up is spyrex, and I'm going to ignore his bullshit argument for lynching me today. That way I save space, considering I've already made my rebuttal to it.

Why no alliance?

I would like to point out that spyrex never explained this vote, he let the arguments of others fuel the wagon while not doing much if anything towards it but voting. This kind of passivity is not something I'm used to from my [insert like only two or three games here] with him.

And then he switches and abaondons the DH hate without so much as a real explanation while also dodging the elaboration on town reads.

Now I'm going to ignore the relatively pointless banter that follows until something cmes up again...

I would lie to point out that spyrex states sera is a low target, and he demands answers from people, but...

doesn't really follow up his question in that regard and kinda just lets it float away like a bloated corpse floating downstream

still dodging an alliance without reason

suddenly a seraphim vote whereas beore spyrex had given no attention or thought or any some such towards spyrex

In fact, he, like korts, had done a lot of pushing and shoving vezok's way (though he a bit more actively than korts, I admit)

just goes "I'm too lazy" as an excuse to not push for a lynch on obv scum and completely disregarding my argument even as he admitted to it being right.

And then bam, he says I'm scum because I RC'd a vig and decided I should lynch him rather than redirecting him to the innocent child like real scum does.

Not as bad as korts, but still bad.

I hope you lot don't mind if I call out spyrex / vezok / korts *

* prone to change - spyrex is an iffy one for me, but I'm 100% confident on the other two

[RayFrost]

Nacho's posting looks like he's being extremely lazy - doesn't explain until people bug him about it.

Makes a good point on korts, seems genuine and not distancing, korts is scum, so nacho is town.

I'd also like to point out in nacho's postings that, although they are a bit on the sparse side, they don't show any signs of distancing to me or attempts at deflection

That is, until we get to him agreeing with me and then switchin' cuz reck said so

this feels slightly off to me in that my argument against the sera lynch was for the reason he wasn't pushing DH. Why not argue against the seraphim lynch in favor of the vezok-claimed-vanilla-that-is-realy-scum? Reck feeling strongly is not really a good basis - reck overreacts to shit. And is slightly exagerative. He was back when I was a newbie, he still is.

this makes enough sense to me, though...

Overall, I'd say neutral, leaning lazy town that better get off his ass and do something

[RayFrost]

oh, and I'll do the rest some other time.

For now,

vote: korts

BFoS: Spyrex, Vezok

[RayFrost]

^ THERES A PROBLEM HERE.

YOURE STILL POSTED>

AKA NOT HAMMERED>

WTF GUYS I HAD FAITH

Fate, buddy... I'm really happy for you and imma let you finish, but the korts lynch is the best lynch of all time!

Let's lynch korts instead.

[RayFrost]

I vastly prefer korts.

KORTS NOW.

Vezok going with spy is decreasing my certainty about that, but I'm 100% certain about korts and vezok scum team.

[RayFrost]

Vote: Nachomamma

Reck, I love you and all, but you aren't voting correctly.

VOTE KORTS.

NOW.

DO IT.

[RayFrost]

Jack's possibly lurkerscum.

I can't really get a read off of 7 posts, most of which are one liners.

[RayFrost]

Fuckin cold bullshit

Unvote:
Vote: Korts

RayFrost I swear don't fuckin forget about Spy when he kills me tonight,

Inb4wifomkill

Reck.

Vote korts already.

FFS

[RayFrost]

I really, really, really like Soc's 447. In that deep belly rubbing way.

[Post that says spy isn't likely to be scum and defends korts kinda]

Also, no response to my case and my defense?

++scumPoints