Mini 1021: Battousai's Mountaintnous Mountain Mafia (Over)

[ConfidAnon]

Vote: LoudmouthLee

Qualifying your vote as random? Want to make sure that no one suspects you for it?

[ConfidAnon]

My vote was based on the fact that you felt the need to make sure everyone knew the vote was random, not the fact that the vote was random.

The majority of votes at the beginning of the day are expected to be random, I don't think that will ever change. =P

Although I do approve of a loudmouthLee bandwagon. Can we get some more votes?

[ConfidAnon]

Bandwagon why, CA? So I can claim Townie? Here. I'll make it easy on you.

Roleclaim: Townie. Vanilla.

Did you even look at the link I posted, CA? Did you see the last time I played a game? Look at most all of my games, in the good old days, when you made a vote that wasn't random, you used that to your advantage. You differentiated between a "vote with heft" and a "random vote".

With that being said, my vote stands on Prana and a

IGMEOY: CA

I actually laughed at the role claim. What does "IGMEOY" mean?

But you are right, a bandwagon on you is not needed.

However,

Unvote, Vote: Leech

Much more lucrative place for a vote. Everyone come and hop on the Leech wagon.

[ConfidAnon]

saga

just cause he voted me. now this place plays mafia alot different than i do, so please dont jump on me, i have to adjust.

You need to vote in the form of

Vote: xxxxx

for it to count.

[ConfidAnon]

LmL - Pretty much all of those acronyms/terms are still in use. I had seen IGMEOY before, just never knew what it meant. Thanks!

I disagree about placing the third vote on the wagon being a tell in the RVS (It's very situational as a tell), but in the interest of getting a hearty bandwagon going,

Unvote, Vote: Prana

[ConfidAnon]

Seeing as it's not worked. I actually had somewhat of a plan in voting for you Lee. At this stage I don't think you're scum. However, an early wagon can often draw up some opportunistic scum.

Wagons create reads, such as you yourself is doing. While I jumped on the wagon late, I still wanted to see how others react.

But CA is also curious, considering you are admiting to voting me solely to get a wagon going. Interesting.

Do I need to point out the inconsistancy here? You just said you were wanting to create an early wagon with the lee vote.

[ConfidAnon]

Oooh. Sorry for missing the question.

Nothing, really, I just want a bandwagon to carry us out of the opening portions of the game.

[ConfidAnon]

Prana - I've never heard someone say "that was a curiously town move. interesting." Besides, either way, the inconsistancy in your post is still there. How can it be curious if you did the same thing?

[ConfidAnon]

Three Votes on Three Pages. Seems to be trying to get a bandwagon started by hook or by crook.

That is . . . exactly what I am doing.

Tell me, what's wrong with getting a bandwagon? They generate information on where people stand on various players. Information is good.

[ConfidAnon]

CA, you say you are just trying to get a bandwagon going on anyone, but... you moved your vote away from LML, who had several other votes, and who you had actually given some kind of reason to vote onto Leech, who had no other votes for no reason. Why on earth would you think that that is an effective way of getting a bandwagon going?

And why are you just trying to get a random wagon going anyway when there are clearly actual serious cases being made in the game?

The way I see it, all this "I'm just trying to get a wagon going" stuff is just an excuse to avoid accountability for your votes, and I'm not going to stand for that.

It would be interesting to see, for instance, if player X wagoned player Y but not player Z. Also, you can learn things from reactions to erratic play. Haven't formed any ground-breaking conclusions yet except a scum read on Prana. As of right now, I am not trying to get a random wagon going. I wanted a random wagon with my LmL and Leech votes, however, I want a non-random wagon on Prana, he's the scummiest player so far. Coincidentally, the only actual cases I see are the ones that LmL has made on myself and Prana. Your question implies that you feel I am ignoring them in order to pursue random wagons. How am I doing this right now?

Lee, I picked you solely because you already had two votes on you, absolutely no other reason, at that time I had no clue if you were town or scum, just the knowledge I could get some info from not just yourself, but from others who might choose to hop on the wagon.

CA, what's wrong with a bandwagon? Nothing in essence, but there has to be a reason, throwing your vote onto absolutely everyone is helping nobody, for one you're not building a wagon by changing your vote so often because it isn't hanging around long enough to create a possible wagon. For two you've announced by your own hand that your ENTIRE reason for doing so is to find where people stand on various players... well you can not only do that without wagonning absolutely everyone, but by announcing what you are doing, you have destroyed it's effectiveness.

That was why I refused to give any more info on my voting for Lee, I couldn't give any actual reasons. I couldn't come up with any bullshit to spew to vote for him, as when I voted him I had no reason, but I wanted to make out I'd "seen something" that led me to him, hence saying the minimal at the time. The only person who did do anything was Lee himself, who jumped on the defensive fast, and as I have said, for good reason, so I feel he's possible town now.

CA is looking scummier in my eyes the longer this goes on, and... iamausername makes an exceptionally good point both with jumping onto Leech for no reason, and then the view of CA avoiding accountability for his actions. So with that in mind...

vote: ConfidAnon

Meh about destroying the effectiveness of the strategy. I probably could have held out longer, but you know what they say about spilled milk. How exactly am I avoiding accountability for my actions? I have explained so for my motivation for everything.

Plus, your bandwagons aren't achieving anything but put you under suspicion.

I don't see how this reflects upon my alignment.

[ConfidAnon]

The fact that my bandwagons aren't achieving anything makes me desperate to get a lynch on someone who's not me? On Page 3?

[ConfidAnon]

However CA's wagons had no reason because the reason he's stating is nullified the very second he states he wants to wagon for the sake of wagoning. It's interesting to note that the second that is pointed out he is strongly pushing for my lynch. I would go so far as to say that CA is actually trying to push for my lynch now because he was caught out, and can no longer hide behind the random voting.

No, I am pushing for your lynch based on the curious comment after you said you tried to start a bandwagon. It seems, to me at least, that the only motivation to call something out as "curious" is to leave it open as an avenue of suspicion. This is hypocritical in regards to you wanting to start a bandwagon.

[ConfidAnon]

Asking people to bandwagon on someone is not the same as saying "I am starting a wagon for the sake of reactions."

[ConfidAnon]

lol what?

I don't even know where you're going with that one... it is the same, because we were both after the reactions of people. However you said you wanted to start a random wagon. That obviously shows that you had no clue if the player was scum (or knew they weren't ) and so no right minded scum would fall into that trap, as was already said it reads exceptionally like "I don't want to be responsible for my actions so I'll claim I'm voting randomly".

Ok, I see what you mean.

Unvote

I wasn't fully following your line of thought.

His vote was opportunistic, for sure, but you are actually stating you're pushing for a lynch? That seems a bit excessive. It's one thing to pursue a lead, but to state that you are actively pushing for a lynch at this phase of the game is insane.

Wrong wording, perhaps. I don't intend to push for a lynch this early, but I did suspect him.

[ConfidAnon]

Vote: havingfitz

Doesn't really post until xite calls him scummy, and then ignores most of the discussion going on and attacks someone for being new. I don't see how the nooby confusion is a scumtell.

[ConfidAnon]

Confid is town
Username is probtown

Why?

Post #0 - Simply voting Lee
Post#1 - You're saying that you approve of the Lee wagon. What exactly made you change your mind in post 3?
Post #2 - Hm, a sudden change of heart? It looks like you've decided to back off Lee because you don't believe you'll be able to achieve any sort of lynch? why didn't you keep your vote, the whole point of having a bandwagon is to bring information so do you not believe that if you had stayed on Lee the information you've been looking for would have came up?
Post#3 - It seems you've changed your mind again? This is all in the sake of getting a good bandwagon going? Were the last two not good enough?

1. No leather seats.
2. He didn't get enough gas mileage.
3. I liked the newer model better.

Seriously, I was just hopping votes to get reactions, see what wagons would form, etc. That's that.

Before I continue with a large post 9as I will only get a chance for one post today... I would like to mention that this is Nexus's "suspicion" list, yet his vote is currently levied on me, 4th on his list. This screams of blustering at fellow scum but not voting for them. You can call it OMGUS if you feel like it. I say it's worthy of a vote.

This is quite a good point.

LmL vs. Nexus looks like it's gonna go on for a while . . . probably only gonna comment on the stuff that jumps out at me. Doing this as a running commentary as I read the thread.

That really strikes me as scummy as it's like "look, vote Nexus. I'm right, listen to me!" it's really insistent.

How is insistence a scumtell? If you believe someone is scum, you want others to vote them, correct? This seems like a bad attempt to make your attacker look bad.

With that said I still have two more things that I think we should all remember:
1.) There are ten of us, we need to work as a team. We are not individuals (well we are, but you know what I mean).
2.) There are ten of us, it's okay if we lynch a townie or two on accident. Even a lynched townie garners information for us to analyze.

I don't like the entire post, but this in particular bothers me.

The entire post has another vote count (information over analysis), a vote where the rationale is "I don't believe you," creating an excuse to lurk through the day "I'm not gonna be very useful," and what I quoted. I see it as kind of a Town motivational rallying cry . . . either side can do it, and it strikes me as a cheap way for scum to earn town points.

Unvote, Vote: Korashk

Forgive me if I don't care about your opinion and what you find suspicious. You're an admitted noob.

And now your an arrogant bastard.

Unvote, Vote: Korashk

No need to come down on players and say their opinion is not valid just because they are a noob. It leads to cliqueyness in the site, and new players won't want to play any more if everyone has that attitude. Too bad that's not a scumtell, but at least you have enough in the previous post for me to vote you.

So, ConfidAnon appears to be pretty blatantly responding to his wagon by lying low and waiting for it to blow over. I am disappointed that this appears to be working for him.

. . . or I just forgot about the thread. Tell me how that confirmation bias works out for ya.

Also, how's the tunnel? Any lights in there? As I said above, my rvs play was mainly to get reactions. I did not have every thing I did analyzed and planned out to a T . . . it was mainly for kicks and giggles, although I was interested to see how people would wagon and things of that nature. So lynch me.

Nexu's inconsistant suspicions are kind of scummy, but could be a noob mistake. So I like the Korashk vote better.

And sorry for not posting for a while, got a little busy in real life and forgot to check mafiascum. Catching up in my games now.

[ConfidAnon]

the direct question/challenge to CA which he never follows up on despite CA basically ignoring (as far as I can see) the post/question/challenge by Korashk.

Huh? Where was this?

I'm still not liking CA's reasoning so much, because if he were trying to do what he says he was he would have known pointing out what he was trying to do would also have got him nowhere, and it smells more like not wanting to be responsible for his votes.

Funny . . . I thought it smelled like vanilla with a hint of cinnamon. To each his own, eh?

He has played here before despite stating he hasn't. He commented on the rules for voting...displayed his ability to vote properly in his previous (un-acknowledged) game...and yet can't vote right here. He is just coming off as a poor little lamb lost in the woods to me and I am not buying it. Obviously your interpretation of lying is different than mine.

Utterly rediculous. As someone else pointed out, the other game had minimal involvement from him before he replaced out. How about this explanation? He forgot how to vote since that game he barely participated in. Not everything is an epic scum plot designed to deceive us.

However, new player or amazingly crafty/cunning/lying scum mastermind who is gonna give *insert vet player here* a run for their money or not, I would like to see more content than "I really don't know what to think." Dalt, who do you think is scum?

[ConfidAnon]

Korashk has requested replacement!

Ugh.

[ConfidAnon]

@CA: I think we're on the same Dalt page. I'm actually feeling like a HF lynch would be almost better than a Dalt lynch. Has HF been on any wagons at all? I did find it interesting that you liked the points thrown out at nexus, and in the same post, voted for Korashk without even an FOS of Nexus. Do you think that Nexus is pro-town or anti-town? Why?

I don't really use FoS's that much . . . they are kind of pointless, and saying you suspect someone gets the point across. I think Nexus is anti-town with the inconsistant suspicions but that could easily be a newb tell.

[ConfidAnon]

I checked.

He's in another game. His last post was on the 8th, but there is no mention of him requesting replacement.

[ConfidAnon]

CA's not that suspicious.

CA's more suspicious than I thought.

Voting LmL.

He's only fourth on my list.

Things like that.

[ConfidAnon]

Okay, makes sense, but hasn't he already explained those things?

I should probably reread to make sure I'm not missing something, but those are kind of strange mistakes to make. They sound like lazy scum . . . but as I said, it could be a new player tell.

[ConfidAnon]

Hey guys, I would like to call to your attention that Korashk posted just yesterday in his other game.

Can we get some votes on him?

[ConfidAnon]

You mean the guy who replaced out and is no longer playing this game? Vote switch time.

unvote; vote: CA

At least pretend to pay attention to what's going on.

So much fail here.

Obviously I mean his playerslot. The fact that he replaced out of this game when he took heat, but not another game, is hella suspicious.

That said…as Korashfluff is my second option…if CA can actually provide a link or quote to what it is he is talking about that would be helpful.

Not sure if that would be legal.

Why too lazy to look yourself?

[ConfidAnon]

@CA….regarding your recent post on Korashk being in another game and my FoS on you. I misread your post and thought you were insinuating he (Korash) had madesome sort of incriminating comment in another game that related to his play in this game. When I did not see anything of the sort it made me suspicious of you for leading others on a goose chase. A reread this morning shows me my error and that you were just calling him out simply for posting period.

Why is replacing out of a game but remaining in others suspicious? If I had to assume alignment based on replacing out…I would say either bored town or mafia resigned to their fate (i.e. under a lot of pressure). Korashk could fall under either of those categories so it is a null tell for me. I know if Llama was lynched and flipped town, you would shoot to the top of my suspicions. Likewise…if Llama did flip scum, I would put you squarely on the town side.

@Llama…what has me atop your list? My suspicions towards the player formerly known as Korashk? My continued suspicions towards dalt?

Regarding dalt…between the ongoing debate with the people making excuses for him I have been spending more time on him than I should. Perhaps a single response/explanation from dalt might have resolved the matter. As I’m tired of defending my dalt suspicions and no one else shares my suspicions of him…and his replacement won’t be expected to answer for him (especially considering PD has already taken care of that) my efforts on him are apparently in vain…I’ll

Unvote

.

That brings me to suspect 1a. Llamafluff. Primarily for Korashk’s play. In the two post’s of content Llama has provided…the only things I have issue with are: the no-lynch comment and the subtle ad-hominem attack on me insinuating I am not playing well this game…which I read as people shouldn’t put any merit what I am saying (which coincidentally has been the case re: dalt).

Vote: Llamafluff

BTW Llama…do you play on this sight under any other names?

I thought it was extremely odd that he would replace out of this game the moment he takes heat over something. There was no indication that he wouldn't have the time needed for the game, and he has continued to be active in his other game. To me, it strikes me as something that scum would be more likely to do . . . but you're right, it is plausible for town to do it as well. Hm.

Hafingfitz and CA need to read the thread, especially modposts

If this is directed at the "must post 48 hours to be considered active" in reference to the Korashk slot . . . Battousai posted that Korashk requested replacement, implying it was voluntary, not due to inactivity.

181 (CA) - *twitch* First he seems to challenge a town read on him and IAU from Xite, I think CA had IAU as town, and I would expect to think himself would be town if he is town. Why is this being challenged? He really glazes over the Nex-LML debate, just taking one shot at Nexus before moving on. He votes Korask for a null tell! Which he attempts to justify as a scum tell, then proceeds to attack korashk additonally for being a dick (which he was, but that is not an alignment tell). Then he attacks IAU for 'tunneling' on him when he had not posted since the 'tunneling' started. Really bad post all around.

I find it

very

interesting the way you ignored the majority of my points on Korashk in this post. Here is the post for reference. I suspected him for Information Over Analysis, subpar reasoning behind a vote, and and an excuse to lurk through the day before I even mentioned what you said. Notice that I said being a dick was not reflective of alignment in my post as well. Yes, either side can give the town rallying cry, but I feel it's slightly more likely to come from scum (personal opinion based on off-site games).

[ConfidAnon]

Wrong modposts.
I meant replacement announcements, mostly.

Doesn't change the alignment of the playerslot.

[ConfidAnon]

1) "I do not like the entire post". Great! Why?
2) "He made a votecount! That is IIoA!" Sorta but not really, IIoA more applies to summarizing events that are occuring and not giving your own insight to them, like if I broke down the whole LML-Nexus thing
3) "Voting due to not believing someone". His vote is not horrible in reasoning here, just lacks backing. He is voting someone who he thinks is scum trying to wagon baselessly.
4) "Saying he is useless". You say it is trying to give him reasoning to lurk, without him ever exhibiting lurker tendancies. The "I am outclassed" possibility is completely ignored by him here. If CA wants to go after lurkers, there are other candidates.
5) "Rally Cry". This continues on to be said as "either side can do it". So CA is trying to force a null tell into a scum tell here to help further his case, although he says he views it as a scum tell.
6) "He is rude". Again, not a tell.

2) Wouldn't a vote count be a summary of events that is occuring and not giving own insight into it?
4) Who said I was going after lurkers in particular? His post sets him up to go under the radar for day 1. I don't think he will disappear completely, but it still provides an excuse for a lack of analysis.
5) I play games on another chat mafia site (epicmafia). While that game is vastly different than mafiascum mafia, when I play, players who give rallying cry type comments (no big deal, we can still win this, no point in dwelling on mistakes, etc) are players I've found more likely to be scum.
6) I was never using it as reflective of alignment. You'll see in my original post that I voted him before calling out the elitist statement against noobs. The revote was more for dramatic effect/snarky commentary.

CA reacts to this comment by missing the entire point. IAU brought up that he was lurking to get the wagon off him, CA responds by saying he is tunneling on him, which is not the case. IAU brings up some points, such as the contridiction that I mentioned already, and you never respond to him, instead you stop posting for a few days (ie lurking to get a wagon off of you).

Apparently you missed or didn't read the part of that post where I said I forgot about the thread.

Also there is the attack on town reads of himself and IAU, attacking town reads of people you do not think are scummy is in itself scummy. I mentioned this earlier and it also got ignored. CA has missed/ignored quite a few things directed at him.

All reads should have reasoning behind them. Scum don't have honest reads, they would want to fake them. If the reads were on other players, I would have questioned them as well. Without reasoning given with them, scum can take a stance without having to back up why they are taking said stance.

[ConfidAnon]

thought you were talking about CA... question still stands for CA though.

I don't believe so. There may have been times when I updated one game but not the others, not entirely sure.

[ConfidAnon]

1) I shouldn't have to respond to this. "I don't like the whole post" was a statement which was expanded upon later on in the post. It was the reason I voted him, however, it was more detailed than that. I don't see how this is scummy. I said I don't like it, then outlined why.
5) Completely agree that EM is about the jokey play, however, you can have a good game and take it seriously with the right people. I haven't played there in a while because the community contains a lot of fail. However, scumtells that happen in real-time I believe are still valid in a forum game. Not all of them, but looking for similar behavior seems like it would give similar results. I still think it's a scumtell, although this is going to be a difference of opinion I think.

Eh. I tried to be cool in the RVS and use a bandwagoning gambit. Didn't really know where I was going with it. So then I flailed when questioned about it. I didn't do it well, and now I'm paying for it. Sticking to random votes in the future.

[ConfidAnon]

It's somewhat hilarious that TW was Adel.

Was the slip-up with your alt a complete accident, Adel?

Also, not liking Xite's reactions right now.

[ConfidAnon]

I'm in five games at the moment, and in a few of them, this one included, I'm not that engaged in the game. I would love to change that though, just not sure how to get back into it.

I think no lynch is good later down the road, but not for day 1.

[ConfidAnon]

Mod: I apologize, but I'm going to ask for replacement from this game. I can't get into it, and I don't want to continue to be dead weight past the point of no replacement, and the game's already pretty big as it is.