Open 241: Emotional Breakdown! (Over)

[ConfidAnon]

Checking in.

[ConfidAnon]

Vote: a2rudeboy

No need to be rude . . .

[ConfidAnon]

AGar and drmyshottyizsik are pretty much in every one of my games. O.o

[ConfidAnon]

Unvote, Vote:CA

I'm curious what happens

Rapid bandwagon time.

Unvote, Vote: Andrew94

Unvote, Vote: ConfidAnon

Unvote, Vote: AGar

He annoys me.

[ConfidAnon]

Responding to the prod.

I noted in my sig I'd be V/LA, thought that'd be enough.\

Will catch up tonight at some point.

Awww . . .

[ConfidAnon]

ConfidAnon apparently hates me. :/

Where some would say "hatred," I'd say . . . friendly rivalry?

I don't hate you. Take this emoticon as a peace offering.

<3

[ConfidAnon]

Not a lot of useful posts so far in this game.

@ConfidAnon Why does AGar annoy you?

Ongoing game.

[ConfidAnon]

Dang, you caught me.

Unvote, Vote: ConfidAnon

But seriously, we need something to start discussion here, and an AGar wagon would work fine.

Unvote, Vote: AGar

[ConfidAnon]

But the AGar wagon has leather seats.

[ConfidAnon]

Open mason claim is bad.
Thinking that leaves him confirmed town is worse.
Ignoring the fact that there are two scum parties is even worse.

The only way he's not confirmed town is if all three members of the real mason group (assuming he's scum) CC. By sheer numbers, if he's lying, he'll be proven wrong by the cc. Both scum groups have two players in each, and they are not working together. Therefore, until the CC, unless my logic is wrong, I assume Mysterio is town.

Unvote, Vote: Xite91

For telling masons not to counterclaim.

FoS: AGar

I don't normally use these, but I kind of want to vote both of you right now. This is for bandwagoning on an uncc'd claim.

[ConfidAnon]

It's not like Masons are a Cop. Sure, they are our only PR, but they aren't actively providing information, they are just confirming each other. If all three were to claim, we'd have a scum caught, three day 1 clears, and at least one clear left remaining on day 2. It's not tragic. Not saying I want that to happen, obviously, but it's not OMGENDOFWORLDCRAPWELOST. If he's scum, we want Masons to cc. Period. There is no point in letting a scum get away with a pr claim this early on day 1.

Then again, knowing that the cc is inevitable with a mason claim as scum, there's not much scum motivation to do so.

Also, if I am not mistaken, scum don't win together. One scum from one group claiming to help out the other scum group is only calling for a loss in the long run.

However, this is theory vs. theory here, so I believe my Vote and FoS should have been swapped.

Unvote, Vote: AGar

[ConfidAnon]

Alright, sorry about the misunderstanding.

Unvote

[ConfidAnon]

Honestly, I think Myst and Xite are both Town. I don't know how much experience Mysterio has, but I think things went down a little like this: Mysterio wanted to get discussion moving in the game, so he claimed Mason. I don't see why he would claim Mason as anything other than Mason in this setup. He also wanted to gauge reactions. However . . . he didn't really know what he was looking for. I could see scum buddying up to the claim, fighting against the claim, ignoring the claim,

possibly

counterclaiming if they didn't think things through, or anything in between these actions. Mysterio was ready to find scum with reactions to the claim, so he took the first post saying anything remotely about it. Personally, I don't see anything particularly scumlike or townlike from Xite's response. When Mysterio pressured it, Xite got frustrated due to the fairly baseless attack on him, hence the exasperated, kind of flailing posts. The fact that a lot of people are jumping on Xite for barely anything makes me think there are scum on the wagon.

The wagon currently consists of: Mysterio, nopointinactingup, AGar, Kaiveran, drmyshottyizsik.

Mysterio I have no reason to believe is not the Mason he claims to be, so I don't think he is scum on the wagon.

drmyshottyizsik plays like a VI consistantly, so I'm not sure if this is scummy for him or not.

nopointinactingup strikes me as scummy, but not as much as the two players we have left.

Kaiveran's assault on Xite rubs me the wrong way. It is full of unwarranted AtE, and feels like scum overzealously jumping on the bandwagon. However, this could be reflective of personality/playstyle more so than alignment in this particular game.

Here, AGar earns my vote. Having played with AGar before (and been on the brunt of his attacks), his vote on Xite smells of a bandwagon. The reasoning for the vote is not as thought-out as I have seen his votes before, and the fact that he's now kind of lying low in this game (I know I have been too, haven't been able to bring myself to read the thread and make a post) after placing his vote on Xite bothers me.

Vote: AGar

[ConfidAnon]

Now to the good stuff. So far, you're in my good graces. You're not the most active, but you display a healthy amount of critical thinking, field an interesting viewpoint on the current conflict, and seem to really think through your analyses. Tell me something though; how do you feel my arguments against Xite use AtE excessively? I generally bring a lighthearted attitude and sense of humor to my playing, but try not to let that get in the way of relevant information. Sure, I made a few wisecracks, but apart from the "mistake forgiveness" bit, I don't see how I'm playing the AtE card.

Sorry about the activity. It will definitely get better.

During the first post where you express suspicion of Xite, your tone is fairly neutral. However, by the second post (your iso #3), they go from a neutral tone to an antagonistic one, something which I feel could be scum going over the top to seem like the better side of the argument. I personally don't have a problem with snarky posts (which yours are), but it seems like the reactions came at an unwarranted time. AtE comes in here with trying to convey frustration, which in turn people could equate to a Town alignment (you are genuinely frustrated with the responses your suspect is giving you.) While frustration is a null-tell, as I said, it could be used to attempt to win an argument.

However, I don't have meta on you, so I don't know if this is how you always play or not. I'll look that up soon.

(For references, its phrases like these:

OMG, they used a similar phrase, they must be scumbuddies! Protip: Being pegged as scummy for tunneling on someone doesn't mean you can shift your attention to someone else to get out of it. You're just exhibiting the same behaviors against me, which is not doing anything to avert suspicion. Digging up petty shit like this is only getting you dirtier.

Looks like I'm not the only one who could brush up on my reading comprehension.

Etc, etc.)

@Confidanon: Please elaborate your meta on Agar.

Ongoing game. But from my experience, he's not a state suspicion and sit on wagon kind of guy. He's a doggedly pursue who he suspects kind of guy.

ConfidAnon making a vote based off of "meta" when he's been in two games with me, BOTH of which are ongoing and lacking conclusive flips on both sides of the fence, is awful.

Regardless of alignments in the ongoing games, you are just camping out on a bandwagon. Which is uncharacteristic for you. Scummy.

[ConfidAnon]

I done been prodded. Who are we lynching? I would prefer to not have to read up.

This seems like a pretty scummy post. are you not interested in the game? if so, please replace out.

Anyway, I originally saw Xite as town, but I'm wavering on that read. not really sure what to think now.

as for bv, he still hasn't contributed much, jumping on the Xite wagon, and still having few, if any, posts about the game and doing scumhunting. vote stays.

This seems like a pretty scummy post. Setting yourself up to take whatever stance on the Xite wagon is most beneficial to you. You haven't contributed much either, yet you are attacking someone for not contributing much.

Also, dj, get read up. I'm pretty sure the leading wagon is town.

[ConfidAnon]

nopoint - It seems more subdued than I've experienced it, but now that I think about it, it could be because before I was on the brunt of it.

So,

Unvote, Vote: bv310

Very quiet. A ton of fluff posts and theory posts, but very little content. The content is jumping on a bandwagon (Xite, namely.)

[ConfidAnon]

Obviously he's not a mason, or he and Mysterio wouldn't have been going at it for the entire game.

However, I think he's town.

[ConfidAnon]

completely ignoring the wagon on Xite.

This is untrue. I thought the wagon on Xite was scum-powered based on people's reactions to it, how it built up, etc.

I still believe this, as the Werewolf faction could have easily been pegging Xite as an easy day 1 mislynch. From my pov, there's only one unknown that wasn't on the Xite wagon, Smashbro of the SSS. I find it difficult to believe that SSS would vote directly with his partner to save him (that would be fairly obvious), although I know nothing of SSS's experience level. Also, I believe out of the two Werewolves (assuming SSS/AGar), AGar would be the more likely one to go for the alternate case (believing Xite is Town) to earn town points. Therefore, I don't really suspect him that much.

I'm going to

Vote: bv310

I do believe AGar is not the only scum on the Xite wagon.

[ConfidAnon]

^^ at no point do i state that xite is townie, i simply point to my personal preference to hunt the wagon regardless of alignment.

How can you do so?

A bus vote is going to look different than an opportunistic bandwagon vote, I would think, and you can't say "OMG THATS A BUS" without knowing the alignment of the wagoned player. Same goes for the opportunistic bandwagon vote, but with the wagoned player being Town.

Also, Mysterio has a point. A scummy bandwagon definitely implies that the wagoned player is town. Which makes the hammer fairly suspect.

Unvote, Vote: don_johnson

[ConfidAnon]

I have strong suspicions of Confid at the moment. He joins the Xite wagon for only one post, and switches his vote to AGar. Xite repeated suggests voting for Confid, with a weak case, and doesn't vote for Confid. I see him as Xite's buddy, and so I will vote him soon, but I'm not going to check the votecount at the moment, so it will wait.

This post is bad. When I voted Xite, I was the second person to do so. That's not really "joining the wagon." The point about Xite is fairly valid (nothing I can really say about that), but the "i'm not going to check the votecount" comment is kind of fishy. It's only been day 2 for a page or so, and your already displaying caution about hammering? Overcautious scum, perhaps? Or possibly waiting for others to vote for this player?

Unvote, Vote: smashbro

dude post the case on ca, stop saying your gonna post it and never post it, lurker

I want to see this case so I can bandwagon on it too.

Don't really like this post, but it could be a playstyle thing.

Imma try to reread the thread. There are a couple of things I want to check up on. I'll let you know if they come to fruition.

[ConfidAnon]

I'm a townie (as far as I know). I've tried to be a productive member of the town, but it looks like I've played myself into a bit of a hole. I didn't think straight early on, and my crappy playing might just cost me my life. I'm ready to accept that, if need be, as a developing player of mafia. I'd much rather someone else be lynched (especially someone I find suspicious), but I think that's somthing that can apply to all of us.

I don't like this blatant AtE.

I balk at the thought of hammering myself further into the mold of a wagon rider

This is also very bad.

posts 1-2 : standard beginning of the game stuff
post 3: rapidfire bandwagon ending on agar. votes himself in the middle. possible distancing technique? no one would take the post seriously, after all
4-6: AtE? Ehh whatever not much here...
7-8: more jokes, tries to start the AGar wagon officially

This was RVS/trying to get out of RVS (7-8) with a serious bandwagon. Things changed quickly soon after, as I found a good place for my vote.

10: based on theory argument, switches his vote back to AGar. at this point has established as someone who was against xite for a little while, then turned around and went back to his seemingly tunneling on Agar, which may or may not be mostly based on previous games at this point. true, ag flipped werewolf, but there wasnt enough info floating around at this point for him to seem that scummy. also, doesn't seem too upset at the possibility of losing a town pr.

Your forgetting that I FoS'd AGar along with Xite in my original post, and the vote for Xite had reasoning that was disproven valid. You are also forgetting that my original AGar reasoning had no logical backing behind it . . . I was trying to start a bandwagon to lead us out of early discussion, as I often do in the early point of the game. There wasn't enough info? I posted for bandwagoning on the unCC'd Mason claim that AGar was scummy. How is this not enough information? I, seeing no scum motivation for the Mason claim, found it suspect.

11: retraction, another unvote. at this point we are halfway through his iso, and the tally is (including RVS so feel free to judge as needed) : 8 votes, 2 FoS. Every post seems to vote or unvote.

You are counting my post where I voted three times (joke), self-vote (joke), and opening RVS vote. This feels like an attempt to take something out of context in order to bolster your argument - which isn't a town trait.

Yes, there was scum on the wagon before, but you got off quick enough in time to make this post. This post reeked to me of trying to distance everyone from the Mysterio/Xite argument, as a simple case of town v town. True, as dj said, most times there is an argument like this on d1 that turns up both people as town. In this post, you both buddy up to the un cc'd mason and try to deflect the heat off of Xite a little. This seems like a perfect combo of moves for Xite's scum buddy. We could say that Xite was flailing due to baseless attacks...but we know now that that's not the case.

I agree with everything except the last sentence. I had no idea Xite was scum, as I said I believed it was town vs. town. You calling the arguments not baseless is not a valid argument. Yes, Xite flipped scum. This does not make the arguments used to get him lynched valid, especially the early debate with Mysterio. I still see no base for the Mysterio attack on Xite . . . because at that time, there was no info about Xite's alignment. While information can be gained by how people joined the wagon, etc, the wagon was started on what I feel was a not-well-performed gambit.

You then drop another vote on AGar, largely based on meta. You are doing a sort of rapid flailing of your own at this point, dropping votes and unvotes and FoS all over the place. Scummy.

Already answered why I am not doing a rapid flailing, but I want to point out that this is why iso scumhunting can be dangerous. You risk taking posts out of context, and then misrepresenting your target. (Although, it's hard to believe that you could seriously say the triple vote post was serious.)

More AtE.
A little bit of analysis, some valid points, not much here. Keeps the pressure on AG, while trying to argue that it isn't solely based on meta.

It is partially based on meta, partially based on camping out on a wagon being scummy. So yes, I am trying to argue that it isn't solely based on meta. I don't see your point here.

14:Smashbro's town read on Xite is wavering, CA calls him scummy. CA also asks that Johnson do a read through of the thread instead of just voting whoever the top lynch candidate is (not a problem, standard) but also feels the need to again state how he thinks Xite isn't scum.

Still don't see anything scummy here. Smashbro saying his Xite read is wavering is the perfect setup for a scumpartner to drop his vote on the wagon after previously defending him. He saw the wagon growing large, and wanted to distance from him in case he got lynched.

15: vote change to bv, gives a little analysis. largely seems to be voting an active lurker.

What's the problem here?

17:Says Agar would be the one more likely to go for xite being town, out of a possible Werewolf team of AGar/SSS. Not quite sure what to make of it, but it definitely doesn't seem all kosher. Thinks the wagon was scum-powered, yet he was one of the first on the wagon. Votes bv again, despite his vote already being there. A little careless?

I outlined my reasoning for this. Try reading the post. Your "definitely doesn't seem all kosher" statement makes me think you are suffering from confirmation bias. Why don't you agree with the post?

[ConfidAnon]

I feel like I had something I really wanted to post but when day ended I didn't get the chance to do so.

I'll go back and read in the morning and see if I remember it.

[ConfidAnon]

Here's a thought: Should we have the Masons claim today? None of them have died yet, and that claim would leave us with four unconfirmeds, two of whom are scum. It would narrow down our odds for the lynch quite nicely. Am I overlooking something obvious, or does this seem like a good idea?

Also -

Vote: a2rudeboy

I don't like how after I post my defense to your case, instead of responding to it, your only post is a lynch pool. Do you have any comment on my defense, or did you even read it?

[ConfidAnon]

CA-
I read it. I actually just went back and reread it again. I didn't really see much in it worth continuing discussion about , unless there's something you'd like to go into? There's far scummier people around than you right now, and you answered most of my questions. With that being said, is your vote on me based solely on my not responding to you (in which case, it seems a bit like OMGUS) or do you have other things right now?

Your final post from day 2 bugged me . . . felt like you were ignoring my response and just blindly swinging for my lynch.

This post, however, sounds protown to me.

Unvote

Tonight after I get home I will try to make a better investigation into who the scum are.

[ConfidAnon]

Mysterio, can you verify?

[ConfidAnon]

I agree that Xite RE: Kaiveran makes Kaiveran look very Town.

I'll also point out Xite's complete ignorance of a2rudeboy while he was alive.

Vote: a2rudeboy