Mini 1023 - City Watch Mafia - Game Over!

[KHG]

I, [recruit's name], do solemnly swear by [recruit's deity of choice] to uphold the Laws and Ordinances of the city of Ankh-Morpork, serve the public trust, and defend the subjects of His/Her [delete whichever is inappropriate] Majesty [name of reigning monarch] without fear, favour, or thought of personal safety; to pursue evil-doers and protect the innocent, laying down my life if necessary in the cause of said duty, so help me [aforesaid deity]. Gods Save the King/Queen [delete which is inappropriate].

[KHG]

Hey people I don't know, because I don't.

VOTE: Thor665 because I'm automatically more distrustful of people with numbers at the end of their usernames.

[KHG]

He seemed pretty eager to defend you against jimfinn's wiki strategy. Why did you assume my post was referring to you?

Though, to be fair, defending against jimmfinn's wiki-strategy was the most logical thing to do. I didn't sense any eagerness, just a question back regarding jimmfinn's vote.

[KHG]

Is this a serious question? Obviously, the mod isn't going to reveal my power in a vote count. Have you never played a game with someone who had a double vote?

I don't understand. If your vote actually counts double, it's the most logical thing

to

have it appear in a vote count. Unless my irony detector is off.

And, is the double vote the power of "CHARISN'TMA"? In which case Mysterio would be Cpl. Nobbs?

I'm not saying these questions should be answered as of yet; just getting them out there...

[KHG]

I would prefer if we stopped any more speculations about roles/powers/mechanics/etc.

Care to explain why?

Unvote; Vote: Trasky.

Any explanation? Random vote?

[KHG]

Also, we can assume that Mysterio won't have this power tomorrow.

[KHG]

Every vote I make is serious.

"Serious" meaning what? That's not an explanation for your vote.

[KHG]

I'm going to

Unvote: Thor

(my previous random vote) and

Vote: Mysterio

.

No one pressed Mysterio at all for any information, yet he writes:

Well, I guess I don't need to hide it anymore. Yes, my power is only good for today. Tomorrow I will revert back to a VT. Hence me not really caring about claiming early, since getting NK would only mean that town lost a VT.

We knew from the wording of the mod's day post that the power would only last a day. Claiming townie when a roleclaim was not necessary seems absolutely bizarre to me, especially the talk of getting night killed.

[KHG]

@KHG, not a good play by Mysterio, but scummy?

Claiming townie for no reason, then saying that it would be no big loss if he was night killed. I think so.

[KHG]

@KHG, my point is claiming VT at this point isn't pro-town or pro-scum.

I think it's pro-scum; why would Mysterio hammer the point home that he his a townie when no one was asking for a roleclaim?

I can't think of a single reason.

[KHG]

EBWOP: That quote above was from Budja.

[KHG]

Why not? It doesn't mean someone is being scummy because they're doing something that you can't figure out. In what way does my RC hurt town? Once you answer that, then you can start making the case for me being scum. So far, my RC is 1) uncounterclaimed, 2) revealed the nature of the CHARISN'TMA power for today, which can give us clues to any future powers it might give, 3) tells us that the main characters of Discworld are in use, so if someone tries to fake claim a really obscure character to avoid counterclaims (assuming no fake claims were given by the mod), we can call them on it. Although, even if fake claims were given, it depends on how many main characters are used. There are only so many.

You're going to have to do a little better, KHG.

I'm not referring to you claiming Cpl. Nobbs, I have no qualms about that, and your post above is absolutely correct. The bizarreness I was referring specifically to was in post #106, where you claimed vanilla townie:

Tomorrow I will revert back to a VT. Hence me not really caring about claiming early, since getting NK would only mean that town lost a VT.

I'd just like an explanation about why you wrote that. I'm not intending to be confrontational, that claim is just

Mysterio

us (ha) to me.

[KHG]

Yes, mass RCing does assume that the flavor plays a role in the game. I've never been in a theme game where the flavor meant nothing, but perhaps that's how things are done here. Obviously, if the majority do not agree, then it's pointless for me to try and pressure jimfinn. And with so many votes on him,

scum could jump in and hammer.

So, I'll Unvote: jimfinn.

Emphasis is mine. Because scum would be stupid enough to lynch someone like that, without any prerogative evidence? You've been pressuring jimfinn pretty much singlehandedly. My vote will stay on you.

Here's my question, if we don't go the route of analyzing RC's to find scum, then where do you suggest we proceed?

Post and relationship analysis, as a start?

[KHG]

I do think that our DV's PR is not indicative of alignment though since he says he loses it tommorow(and if he's lying about that, it's easy to catch so w/e.).

I agree that the double vote it says nothing about alignment.

What is "PR"? Not in the Wiki.

[KHG]

I wanted to know if anyone else had experienced a D1-doublevoting scum before.

The mod's post implies it's a one day power, perhaps bestowed to him randomly? I wouldn't read too much into the double-vote in how it relates to his alignment.

[KHG]

Query: Do you have any idea why you were chosen for your power?

I'd have to guess it was random (or semi-random), considering there was no night zero and no actions that could have taken place.

I'd like to hear Narsis' response before voting for him. I will UNVOTE: Mysterio for now.

[KHG]

Query: Do you have any idea why you were chosen for your power?

I'd have to guess it was random (or semi-random), considering there was no night zero and no actions that could have taken place.

I'd like to hear Narsis' response before voting for him. I will UNVOTE: Mysterio for now.

70% sure this guy's scum.

Hi D2 lynch!

What does a post like this contribute? I'm 45.7% sure you're scum. My sources are the Easter Bunny and Ty Cobb.

I'd like to hear Narsis' response before voting for him. I will UNVOTE: Mysterio for now.

If this doesn't sound 'connection-y', I don't know what does. Unwillingness to vote hop on a wagon that's building up on a scummy player who's not yet in any danger is a good tell.

Not yet in any danger is hyperbole. My vote would be L-2. It's perfectly reasonable to want to hear someone's responses to the questions asked before voting for them as opposed to hopping on their wagon.

@KHG, can you elaborate on your reads?

Which reads are you referring to exactly, Budja?

[KHG]

Mod can please delete that post from FD2 (old account never used) and edit it into the post above.

[KHG]

Mod, you could simply edit out the post to remove everything if you like, and just copy what I wrote their into my next post.

Done. Continue.

[KHG]

EBWOP: @KHG: Aside from 'wanting to hear from him'. Even with your vote, He'd still be alive and we WILL hear from him unless he gets a coordinated scum speedlynch which is an awesome scum-tactic which all scum should totally do when I'm Town.

I don't like hopping on a bandwagon without wanting them to respond to some questions. I've voted twice in this game: for Thor, randomly; and for Mysterio, who I believe I was the first person to vote for. Nothing I've done has been illogical.

All you're doing is shouting names, saying "these people are scum".

[KHG]

Sorry, bad tags. The quote above is from VasudeVa.

[KHG]

And, is the double vote the power of "CHARISN'TMA"? In which case Mysterio would be Cpl. Nobbs?

I'm not saying these questions should be answered as of yet; just getting them out there...

ROLEFISH MUCH?

I don't understand. I was speculating about the mechanics, and I specifically said these questions should

not

be answered.

I'm going to

Unvote: Thor

(my previous random vote) and

Vote: Mysterio

.

No one pressed Mysterio at all for any information, yet he writes:

Well, I guess I don't need to hide it anymore. Yes, my power is only good for today. Tomorrow I will revert back to a VT. Hence me not really caring about claiming early, since getting NK would only mean that town lost a VT.

We knew from the wording of the mod's day post that the power would only last a day. Claiming townie when a roleclaim was not necessary seems absolutely bizarre to me, especially the talk of getting night killed.

NO ONE PRESSED MYSTERIO FOR INFORMATION??? WHAT WAS THE ROLEFISHING ABOVE? ARRRRRGH.

Was I asking Mysterio for any information? No.

@KHG, my point is claiming VT at this point isn't pro-town or pro-scum.

I think it's pro-scum; why would Mysterio hammer the point home that he his a townie when no one was asking for a roleclaim?

I can't think of a single reason.

HE WASN'T 'I'M A TOWNIE' HE WAS 'MY ROLE IS VT'. THAT'S NOT SCREAMING ABOUT YOUR TOWN DRAW, THAT'S . . . ARGH. BUT in other ways he seems to be following some degree of internal consistency . . .

I'm sorry, but I fail to see the distinction between "my role is VT" and "I'm a townie". I don't know what point you're trying to make with "ARGH", because I can't understand what you're trying to say when you don't finish your sentence.

Will reread Tasky later. Might move my vote to one of {Tasky, KHG, VV} depending on how my gut reads and feelings develop but NOT BEFORE we hear more from Narsis and I can gauge his reactions and play in response to everything.

You're saying you want to hear from Narsis before moving your vote; I said I wanted to hear from Narsis before hopping on his wagon, and VV said I was his scum buddy.

@KHG, you did a very quick switch from Mysterio to Narsis. I'd like to know why (i.e your reads on these people)?

I'm not voting for Narsis right now. I said I'd like to hear from him. Apparently, my not voting for him is scumlike, and if I voted for him, that would be scumlike.

Hard to please you guys.

[KHG]

Okay, Plum, I shouldn't have asked those questions.

I am a VT = I don't have any abilities.
I'm a Townie = Look guys I am so completely and totally Town, really super Town!

I still don't see the sense in this, for the record, but it's not a pertinent issue.

@KHG Now you've unvoted me and are jumping on the Narsis wagon. What about my previous scumminess has changed?

I am

not

jumping on the Narsis wagon. As of this moment, I have not voted for him.

I was the first person to vote for you, Mysterio, and your later posts led me to believe you were pro-town.

Narsis has not posted over the last two pages, and I'll give him a chance to respond.

I've decided that Narsis and Tasky are buddying far too much, especially in the light of the arguments made in #246. I've also been slightly appeased by Mysterio's attitude in his most recent post, even though I'm still a bit suspicious of his original insistence on the massclaim. However, I think it is worth the vote switch, so I will unvote VOTE: Narsis

You're voting for Narsis simply because of "buddying" with Tasky?

VOTE COUNT

Narsis (5): Plum, Budja, VasudeVa, Thor665, jimfinn
Mysterio (3): Tasky, Narsis, FakeGod
jimfinn (1): Chronopie
VasudeVa (1): TheButtonmen

Not Voting (2): Mysterio, KHG

With 12 alive, 7 votes are needed to lynch.

[KHG]

@KHG, Whether you are voting for him or not in a technicality. I want to know why are you interested in voting for Narsis rather than Mysterio who you looked quite happy to vote just a post earlier.
(i.e Why did you change your focus to Narsis?)

Whether I'm voting for him or not is far from a technicality. A vote is an instrument in a lynch, far more than simple interest in hearing a case against him. Mysterio's actions after my case against him (I was the first one to vote for him) appeased me, and he seemed townlike.

@KHG - why no vote yet?

I haven't been fully pleased with the cases against Narsis to merit a vote. I'd consider casting one should further discussion have more of a palpable explanation.

The great irony of this game, of course, is, had I voted for Narsis at this point, the subject now would be my wagoning.

[KHG]

@KHG - if you're waiting for a case to become actually worth supporting what are you doing in order to help this happen?

In other words - you seem to be sitting on the sidelines and not helping, my gut says 'OMG, no scumzhnting means obvious scummorz, vote pl0x!!!' Why is my gut wrong?

I don't believe Narsis is worth voting for. That's not the absence of scumhunting. You've jumped from me not believing the case against Narsis is strong enough to me not wanting to lynch scum.

[KHG]

Where do you think I said this? (please offer the quote and explanation)

In other words - you seem to be sitting on the sidelines and not helping, my gut says '

OMG, no scumzhnting means obvious scummorz,

vote pl0x!!!'

Maybe you were being trite, but I don't see the purpose in using language like that. I said I didn't see a case for Narsis, which is different from "sitting on the sidelines".

Well, who's your top suspect right now? Sitting around without a vote on anyone is a common symptom of deficient scumhunting.

Perhaps I am truly "deficient", but I don't have a top suspect right now. I'll read through the thread when I get a chance.

[KHG]

@KHG: Why do you always assume they are talking about Narsis when they mention scum hunting and whats your main reason for disliking the Narsis wagon?

I'm not sure what you mean by the first part of that question, perhaps you could clarify? No one has made an argument against Narsis that I can agree with. If someone can, I can vote for him. That initiated early in the game, when it seemed the Mysterio wagon stalled, which I'll look further into when I have a chance tomorrow.

@KHG - I don't see how my comments were unoriginal. I do think lack of scumhunting is a scumtell - do you see any reason to disagree with me on that?

If yes, why?

If no, could you please point out some of your scumhunting efforts (I've clearly missed them).

What do you mean by unoriginal? I never used that word.

I don't disagree with you. I'm not going to comb through my posts and decide when I was scumhunting; you can do that yourself, if you're interested.

^ Explain this. Explain why you showed an interest in voting for Narsis. (and give me a proper answer this time.)

I didn't show an interest in voting for Narsis so as much I said I was willing to vote for him, just as I am willing to vote for everyone. Perhaps if you explained what was so

improper

about my previous answer, I could attempt to give you a

proper

answer.

[KHG]

Meanwhile, I won't get the chance to post again for roughly sixteen hours, should anyone ask any more questions of me.

[KHG]

You used the word 'trite'. Trite = unoriginal. Maybe use smaller words if you're uncertain what bigger ones mean?

Trite also means banal. That's what I was referring to. And, what, exactly is the point of an attacking comment like that?

You clearly said "I'd like to hear Narsis' response before voting for him." This implies that you were not merely willing to vote for Narsis (apparently that's default status towards all other players for you; if you were merely as willing to vote him as anyone else, why state it at all?) but actively considering doing so, depending on his responses. You were considering it, and you were interested in it. You never stated why you would be. Please explain.

It was a throwaway line. I meant that the evidence did merit my voting for Narsis at that time; I shouldn't have implied it was dependent on what he was saying next.

Referring to Mysterio, his responses throughout the thread convinced me that he was pro-town.

[KHG]

Banal = unoriginal. But please feel free to give me your definition of banal and how you intended it in your commentary.

I used the attacking commentary because I was unamused how you were playing a definitions game to try to redefine the discussion - I still think you're trying.

You still haven't really addressed how I should find your scumhunting work yet. I still submit it's not there and all you seem to be doing currently is defending yourself (and not that well, if I may make a personal observation).

I took trite to mean devoid of real meaning; perhaps I used it incorrectly. Do you honestly think a comment like that is the right thing to say?

I said you can read my earlier posts and decide if I was scumhunting. If you think my actions merit a lynch, go ahead. I'm pro-town and the town would be closer to losing. You say I'm not defending myself well, but I don't know what to say. Everything's been said about this one post I that I said about Narsis, and maybe I got caught up in my words.

I'm Sergeant Detritus and I'm a townie.

Plum made a big deal earlier about the distinction between a townie and a vanilla townie (which I don't understand), but my role PM simply said townie so I'll leave it at that.

[KHG]

Well I'm happy with my vote.

I expected something like this. Obviously there's less risk involved in lynching a townie than someone with another claim, so the town has comparatively less to lose.

I've said what I've said, so I'll let you guys talk it out and decide. But if I'm lynched, look back at the end of the Mysterio wagon and the change to Narsis. I think a lot of relationships will be exposed there.

[KHG]

What exactly about the switch from Mysterio to Narsis do you find scummy?

The seeming lack of enthusiasm for Mysterio's lynch without explanation from certain players. I don't have time to go through it right now, but I'll take a look if I'm still alive tomorrow.

Now, I'd appreciate if you answered my question.

[KHG]

KHG, you kept dancing around the point of my question rather than answering it. (I asked three times).

I'm happy to switch to this wagon.

unvote, vote KHG

(Still think Narsis is scum.)

I'd like Chronopie to speak up a bit too rather than just latch to popular wagons/reads.

Preview: Ironic, KHG, since that is where you are getting a lot of your scumpoints.

I don't know what you want me to say. I answered your question, then you told me my answer was inadequate without telling me why. I said I would consider voting for Narsis based off the previous explanations given. That was all I said, and I never moved past that point on Narsis.

[KHG]

Alright, done for the night posting.

I'd assume the people voting for me simply don't believe my claim? Is that assumed? Buttonmen and Budja haven't given explanations.

[KHG]

I said I would consider voting for Narsis based off the previous explanations given. That was all I said, and I never moved past that point on Narsis.

No, you expressed interest in joining the Narsis wagon after been pretty strongly fixated with Mysterio. You didn't mention any arguments that had convinced you.
Whenever I tried to ask me about it you focused on relatively unimportant aspect of my post while missing the direct point, "what had convinced you to change your stance".
You still have only vaguely giving me an idea of why.

I unvoted Mysterio because I was pleased with the answers he gave. They felt town-like to me. It was an intuitive feeling.

KHG, you had three votes on you. Why did you claim?

I was unsure of the next time I could post again and thought I should get it out there.

VOTE COUNT

KHG (4): Plum, TheButtonmen, Chronopie, Budja
Narsis (3): VasudeVa, Thor665, jimfinn
Mysterio (3): Tasky, Narsis, FakeGod

Not Voting (2): Mysterio, KHG

With 12 alive, 7 votes are needed to lynch.

[KHG]

then he claims at L-4 (3 votes)... talking of unnecessary claim...
at this point the only conclusion I can draw is that you are scum, who has a fakeclaim you believe to be good and at the first opportunity want to get that fakeclaim out in order to be cleared for the rest of the day (or maybe game).

That's the only conclusion you can draw?

I said I was unsure when I would be able to post again. As it turns out, I got a chance to.

I think this post shows how important that claim is for you. You are trying really hard to make people think you are town. And that is scummy.

I don't know how hard I'm trying, but it's in my best interest to make people think I'm town because I am town and it's easier to accomplish my win condition. I don't see how that's scummy.

Tasky seems to be jumping to conclusions.

@KHG, let me ask you what specifically about my posts caused you to unvote me? Don't give me the generic "your posts seemed pro-town", actually cite a specific example.

No sentences in particular, just your general reactions and tone. Sometimes that all you can go on. Posts #133, 142, 200 as examples gave me a better idea.