Open 241: Emotional Breakdown! (Over)

[Mysterio]

/confirm

Ya I'm from Texas

VOTE: Shotty

Also, I'm republican

VOTE: Xite

[Mysterio]

Vote: Shotty

i don't know why

[Mysterio]

Not a lot of useful posts so far in this game.

@ConfidAnon Why does AGar annoy you?

[Mysterio]

This game is starting off really slow. To make things interesting, I'll go ahead and reveal that I am a

Mason

. That's right, I get to talk behind your backs! So, watch what you say.

Unvote: Shotty

Vote: ConfidAnon

For bringing issues from other games into this one. If you find AGar annoying from another game, then keep it there. Bringing it here implies that he annoys you in this game as well.

[Mysterio]

I'm tempted to vote for him for wasting my time.

And there will be no counterclaims, for I am indeed a Mason. However, that was an interesting reaction, Xite. Why do you feel the need to tell other Masons not to counterclaim? That seems self-evident, not to mention a Mason isn't exactly a game breaking role. Counterclaiming would be pointless. And yet you act as if it's a huge revelation. Why?

[Mysterio]

And a better role to night kill...

Your reaction is what I would expect from scum who was just given a convenient target.

Unvote: ConfidAnon

Vote: Xite

[Mysterio]

Think about how a PR claim looks to scum when they know for a fact that the player making the claim is town. And then think about how they would react. Now, go back and read your post. Do you see any similarities?

A genuine attempt to not have a PR role outed is certainly a possibility, but given the role I've claimed and how early in the game it is, it doesn't quite fit as nicely as you being scum.

[Mysterio]

Here's my take on it:

A scum sees my claim, and knows that I am town. At this point in the game, it is in the best interest of scum to blend in. Making overtly scummy moves would obviously be bad play. What is the best way to blend in for scum who knows that I'm town? Make a fake attempt at stopping a counterclaim. At the same time, the scum would be thinking to themselves, "Easy N1 target." Unfortunately, that kind of thought can slip into the post without the person realizing it. You see, my goal in claiming was to try and catch someone slipping. I believe I have. Also, your reasoning doesn't make a whole lot of sense. If you truly thought someone would counterclaim me (so much so that you felt the need to tell people not to), then how much sense would it make for me to fake claim? Especially to fake claim as town, thereby opening myself up to be counterclaimed and possibly lynched/FOS'd even though I was town? That contradicts your initial reaction to my claim and reads like you're making it up as you go along.

[Mysterio]

This thread sure blew up since I claimed. Everyone altogether now say, "Thank you, Mysterio!"

1) Assuming you're town, which I am atm.
2) Uhm, that's every point in the game IMO. Sometimes, making overtly scummy moves is a good play, if done right, but rarely do scum take that chance
3) Who said it was fake? Nice Misrep
4) Bolded. How's that unfortunate unless you're scum? Also, I'd like you to point out that "slip"
5) How?
6) If you claimed it was for a gambit, it would make sense. If you said they were lying, it would make sense. Of course this wouldn't get you past D2 in most cases, but with 2 kills per night, that's not a bad chance of winning still.
7) To fake claim as town? Now here's a slip we can talk about.

Sidebar: A lot of these points were completely unnecessary. Fracturing someone's post and trying to pick out random crap makes you look very,

very

scummy.

2), 3), 4) - It's arguably more important in the beginning of the game when everyone is equal. Later in the game, there's a possibility of building a reputation that might allow scum to take more risks. Just how the game evolves. Also,

I'm

the one that said it was fake. That's not misrepresenting you, that's accusing you. There's a difference. Finally, 4) is a huge stretch. Have you never heard that figure of speech before? Please don't waste my time with weak points like these.

5), 6), 7) - These points should not have been fractured like that. They are all referring to the same main point, which is that your reasoning behind a town fake claim doesn't make sense. Point 5) was the setup, while points 6) and 7) were the explanation. Breaking up my post into nonsensical parts tells me that you're forcing the issue. If you are indeed town, then my advice to you is to stop trying so hard. If you're scum, well, just one more point against you. Also, your response to 7) is strange. Did you forget that you're the one who mentioned the possibility of me fake claiming as town? I'll even quote it:

a) I think you're town, just not a mason, trying to pull something I've actually done a few times before

If you did forget, then please try to keep up.

You claim mason
Theres a bit of discussion, a lot of which gives some good info during the day
If no one else claims, you get NK'd, giving town less of a chance of losing a PR
If others claim, there's still a chance of you getting NK'd, which is still less a chance of town losing a PR
Therefore, a successful gambit

What if I'm really a Mason? I'm interested to know how you'd read my claim then.

[Mysterio]

The statement that "scum knows that I [Mysterio] am town," is inherently false. Scum knows he is not their scumteam, and that is all.

Can you expand on this a bit? The fact is scum know I'm not on their team, whether or not they know if I'm on the other scum team is irrelevant. This would only be worth pointing out if the scum teams had some kind of win condition that forced them to collaborate. Otherwise, if I'm not on their team, then me being on the other team or town makes no difference to them. You're going to have to explain this a bit.

[Mysterio]

The statement that "scum knows that I [Mysterio] am town," is inherently false. Scum knows he is not their scumteam, and that is all.

Can you expand on this a bit? The fact is scum know I'm not on their team, whether or not they know if I'm on the other scum team is irrelevant. This would only be worth pointing out if the scum teams had some kind of win condition that forced them to collaborate. Otherwise, if I'm not on their team, then me being on the other team or town makes no difference to them. You're going to have to explain this a bit.

[Mysterio]

Crap, my browser screwed up there.

[Mysterio]

@mysteriou why did u claim so early?

Mostly to try and catch a scum slip, which I mentioned to Xite. However, another reason was for the fun of it. This game was literally dead, so claiming seemed like a good way to also satisfy my boredom. If claiming gets me NK, meh. It was still worth it.

A) Please, people, I need gratification! What, were you trying to get townie points or something?
B) Discredit without any actual information... Interesting
I broke it up to make it easier on the readers of it, and to me (answering it) It's a pain in the ass trying to remember where you were in a paragraph that jumped around so much
2+3) But the accusation was pointed out as definite truth. This is why I called it a misrep
4) No, I'd like you to point out exactly where the slip is, because if you can't point it out, then it's not there. That's not just a figure of speech, there's usually evidence involved with those.
5) It's really hard to tell when your points jump around so much.
6) Waitwaitwait... did you just say that if i'm town, to stop trying so hard? What the hell? Have you EVER played this game before?
7) Sorry, misunderstanding I saw "Fake claiming as town" and thought, he's "fake -claiming as town-" AKA your town claim was fake. It is really cute, though, how you're trying to make me look dumb to the rest of the group in order to discredit me. I kind of want to pat you on the head.

Then you eat rainbows and shit gold? For some reason I'm just convinced you're not an actual mason, so there's no scenario I can come up with.

Why do you assume it was for townie points? And if you're unable to respond to a post without breaking things up, then wow. Not sure how to even respond to that.

Anyway, this is the second time where your responses do not follow at all. Point 5) of your previous post bolded the "Unfortunately" word that I used, and asked how it was unfortunate if you're not scum. That is what I was responding to. Asking me to point out your "slip" makes no sense, because the post you were responding to did exactly that! So, either you didn't understand it, or you're deliberately muddling things up. As such, I will quote my post that explains your slip:

A scum sees my claim, and knows that I am town. At this point in the game, it is in the best interest of scum to blend in. Making overtly scummy moves would obviously be bad play. What is the best way to blend in for scum who knows that I'm town? Make a fake attempt at stopping a counterclaim. At the same time, the scum would be thinking to themselves, "Easy N1 target." Unfortunately, that kind of thought can slip into the post without the person realizing it. You see, my goal in claiming was to try and catch someone slipping. I believe I have.

In other words, your initial reaction to my claim is the "slip" I'm referring to.

Moving on...

Because you being town and you being scum teams are two completely different things to the town? Therefore it's important to differentiate.

There's an underlying assumption to your response here. You seem to be under the assumption that I'm simply trying to get town to accept my claim. That was clearly not my intention, given the fact that I made that point as an argument

against you.

Whether or not town accepts my claim is secondary at this point.

[Mysterio]

Xite is imploding. The fact is scum will not try to counterclaim because neither scum team has the numbers, period. If they did try to counterclaim, my real partners will chime in and we would have two scum handed to us on a silver platter. If instead scum stay quiet and I am night killed, you will still have two Masons collaborating and possibly dead scum if Xite gets lynched. That's a 1-to-1 trade off which is always bad for scum.

However, I disagree with Kai in that my partners should NOT claim unless I'm counterclaimed, even if I'm about to be lynched. Although, with Xite making himself look scummier by the day, that seems unlikely. Having all three of us claim would certainly clear three players and make us more likely to be town than anyone else, it would also give both scum teams clear targets. With two killing parties, two Masons could get wiped out in a single night. Hence why I've only been pushing for Xite to be lynched because of him incredibly scummy reaction to my claim. Anyone pushing for my partners to claim without me being counterclaimed either isn't thinking things through or is rolefishing.

[Mysterio]

Funny thing is I'm still unsure about how my reaction was scummy. You pointed out "what" was and beat around the bush plenty, but what about it IS scummy?

I'm not going to rehash all of this discussion. I will note that you have really backed off now that you've got a few votes on you. Why? Earlier you were quick to break apart posts and overreact, but your "demeanor" has very quickly changed to a more quiet defensive state. This looks to me like you know exactly what makes you look scummy, and so you're changing your playstyle in order to not stand out as much.

who else do you think slipped mysteriou?

At this point, the only one who looks suspicious enough to warrant a vote is Xite. I would put some of the spotlight on Kai, who was very quick to defend me, and his reasoning about my partners claiming is way off. Also, smashbro has posted in other games, but hasn't posted in this game since voting for bv310 in post #101. I'd like to know what he thinks about Xite's play.

[Mysterio]

Or, I could have lost a lot of my extra time by getting some terrible news and trying to cope with it as well as trying to get a job, looking for a new apartment, hospital visits, and trying to sort things out with a bunch of stupid people? Maybe I haven't been doing so much because of that, just maybe.

Appeal to emotion. You act as if my question about your changing playstyle was unwarranted, and then you go off on some personal note that really has no place in this game. I also have to wonder why you're still here if all of this is true. Real life issues should come way before some silly forum game. I don't know if you're taking this personally, or if you're just using an appeal to emotion to try and get everyone off your back. I'm leaning toward the latter.

Bolded. I love isolation like this, why didn't you say about the game in general

Because the game in general is about you. You're at L-2 and have acted the scummiest by far. I'm interested in what Smashbro's read on you is since his last post.

@andrew What is your read on Xite? Do you or do you not find him scummy?

@nopoint What makes you think andrew is Xite's scumbuddy?

[Mysterio]

@don_johnson That was an incredibly weak post. Not caring who we lynch doesn't bode well for you being town.

FoS: don_johnson

Read through the thread and give us your thoughts, please.

@Shotty You never posted a reason for your vote on Xite. Why does Xite look scummy to you?

@Nopoint You admit to bandwagoning, but you don't see it as scummy. Okay, then tell us what exactly town gains by bandwagoning.

Xite is at L-1 with two obvious bandwagon voters (and one players who seems willing to bandwagon). This is important to note before anyone hammers.

[Mysterio]

I don't care if someone hammers, because I think Xite is scum. However, if Xite flips town, then the obvious bandwagon voters need to be noted.

[Mysterio]

@don What specifically about Kaiveran makes you think he's scum? In post #200, you tell us that you're going to find the crappiest vote on the lead wagon. Shouldn't that be the bandwagon voters who have given very few, if any, reasons for their votes? At the very least, Kai has made numerous posts defending his vote on Xite. Meanwhile, you have Shotty and Nopoint who have given little to no reason for their votes. That seems like a disconnect in your logic.

[Mysterio]

The case against Kai is making more sense to me, but the case against andrew is extremely weak. I simply view it as being cautious, as I don't think scum would so obviously buddy up like that.

@mod I will be V/LA until Wednesday.

[Mysterio]

So, don just hammered after previously stating that he didn't think Xite was scum. He then made weak comments about not having any problems with a Xite lynch, but continued to make a case against Kai

while defending the bandwagon voters

who voted Xite for no good reason. He then apparently gets bored and hammers Xite. No matter which alignment Xite flips, I think don should be under strong suspicion come Day 2.

Anyway, at this point I'm guessing we're just waiting on the mod to grace us with his presence.

[Mysterio]

Well, that's an interesting night phase. I guess WIFOM is pretty strong with two killing parties. They each probably figured the other was going to kill me.

Anyway, looking back through the thread, I see that AGar and ConfidAnon distanced themselves early, but then ConfidAnon suddenly dropped his case against AGar in post #223 to vote for bv310, completely ignoring the wagon on Xite. It could be a harmless misread, but it's also possible that he's Xite's scumbuddy. Either that or AGar's scumbuddy. Either way...

FoS: ConfidAnon

But I have to

Vote: don_johnson

. What was that hammer all about? Especially considering it contradicted all of your previous posts.

[Mysterio]

So, because no one went along with your scumhunting, you decided to hammer the same wagon that you thought was being pushed by scum? That's not a great explanation. Why shouldn't we just conclude that you're one of the scum that jumped on the wagon after some weak attempt at distancing?

[Mysterio]

Quick read through.

Unvote

Will post thoughts in a bit.

[Mysterio]

Okay, fell asleep before I could post again. Don's defense makes sense to me, and when you include some other things he said, I have a hard time believing he is scum anymore.

A point on Shotty, this guy only knows how to play as VI. When he is town, he is of zero help to town. The fact that he pushes to vote for andrew while confusing the fact that andrew being Xite's buddy means he couldn't possibly be a werewolf. But I'm sure that just slipped his mind.

Now he pretty much piggy-backs off my suspicion of don, but doesn't even acknowledge don's defense and instead spams useless crap. I currently have other suspicions, but I see no harm in getting Shotty out of our way. If he's scum, then all the better.

Vote: Shotty

[Mysterio]

Shotty wagon needs more votes. rudeboy is non-existent from this game and should probably be replaced. @Kai, who exactly do you plan on voting for? I think don's case against you was actually pretty good, which is probably why your defense consists mostly of discrediting don rather than answering his accusations.

[Mysterio]

That doesn't explain why you aren't voting for ConfidAnon. You just made a massive case against him, but have decided to vote andrew because... he looks like an easier lynch?

[Mysterio]

I second that. There's really nothing else to add, and another night phase will narrow things down for us.

[Mysterio]

More delicious WIFOM. I think the scum teams figured don to be a Mason based on our interactions. I figured that might happen, but assumed they would come after me. The fact that they haven't probably means they're trying to throw doubt on my claim by letting me live, unfortunately for them that will only work if they manage to take out one or both of my partners, which they've failed to do. Having said that, I'm still uneasy about my partners claiming while we still have two killing parties. WIFOM seems to be strong in this setup, but they could still get lucky and take out two of us in one night, which would hurt town chances dramatically. Plus, my partners claiming would eliminate the possibility of scum crossfire, which has already helped us with AGar.

So, I say my partners should hold out on claiming unless they think it will be advantageous to do so.

As for who to vote for, ConfidAnon is absolutely correct in the number of players left who are unconfirmed. And of the 4 remaining, it's a total toss up at this point. If you're town, I suggest you step up your game and convince us of it. In the meantime, I'll go ahead and put more pressure on Kaiveran.

Vote: Kaiveran

[Mysterio]

Unvote

vote: bv310

At the very least, andrew has made efforts to defend himself. bv310 doesn't even bother responding to any of the votes against him, and instead seems intent on getting rid of andrew by accusing him of the same things he's guilty of. Also, trying to get my partners to out themselves when we still have two killing parties in the game is pretty damn scummy.

[Mysterio]

Don't have a lot of time to post right now.

Andrew is a Mason. I'll post more thoughts later today.

[Mysterio]

Wow. I mean you hammered the guy I wanted lynched, but lol. I really hope this guy is scum.

[Mysterio]

Yep, Smashbro is a Mason.

I'm liking rudeboy as the last scum. But I'll iso Kai and CA as well.

[Mysterio]

Having finished my iso read through, I can confidently say that scum is one of ConfidAnon or a2rudeboy. As it stands now, we can lynch both and still win (if we mislynch today). But if Kai is scum, then he wins. I want Smashbro to give me his reads before I'll place a vote.

[Mysterio]

Exactly, and everyone Xite mentions in that post has already flipped town except for Kai. It seems unlikely to me that Xite would mention his buddy in a final scum post, especially after arguing with Kai for so long.

My problem is that since Xite flipped scum, we completely ignored this post. It could be that Xite and Kai were simply distancing themselves with their argument, knowing that Xite flipping scum would cause us to keep Kai around instead of lynching him Day 2. So, right now I'm torn when it comes to Kai. My gut still says that CA or rudeboy is the final scum.

[Mysterio]

If rudeboy flips town, we go into LyLo. Scum seem to think keeping me alive helps them or something, since I still haven't been killed, so I'll follow smashbro on this one. My view is we lynch rudeboy no matter what, and then deal with Kai/CA during LyLo if necessary.

[Mysterio]

Where is Kai?

@dram, requesting prod on Kai.

@rudeboy, how about you tell us who you think we should lynch?

[Mysterio]

Isn't it awesome when players disappear during endgame?



Rather than wait for Smashbro and Kai to come around, I'll just go with my gut.

Vote: Rudeboy

[Mysterio]

lmao, gut wins! I learned from my mistake in another game where I went against my gut and got burned. Rudeboy had no chance so he self-hammered, sorry bro.

Also, Shotty wins yet another game by doing absolutely nothing of worth. Epic VI play seems to work for him. /rage

Thanks for the game, dram!

[Mysterio]

Another note for the Mod. After I died, I noticed your "wrong topic link" message was sent to: Kaiveran don_johnson AGar bv310 nopointinactingup andrew94 Xite91 a2rudeboy drmyshottyizsik Mysterio

As you can see the scums and werewolves are next to each other.

Oh snap, I never even noticed that.

And I'm not sure if any of the scumz plan on coming back to post, but I'd like the question about not killing me answered as well. If you guys would have taken me out earlier, I'm fairly certain this game would not have ended well for town. It would have been a lot harder for Smashbro and andrew to prove they were Masons.

[Mysterio]

Heh, Smashbro definitely called the N1 WIFOM that kept me alive.

Here's the Mason QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/44/H/qk69krmVcim

As you can see, we definitely took advantage of the fact that all 3 of us survived for so long, especially Smashbro and I.