Mini 1023 - City Watch Mafia - Game Over!

[Budja]

I, [recruit's name], do solemnly swear by [recruit's deity of choice] to uphold the Laws and Ordinances of the city of Ankh-Morpork, serve the public trust, and defend the subjects of His/Her [delete whichever is inappropriate] Majesty [name of reigning monarch] without fear, favour, or thought of personal safety; to pursue evil-doers and protect the innocent, laying down my life if necessary in the cause of said duty, so help me [aforesaid deity]. Gods Save the King/Queen [delete which is inappropriate].

[Budja]

vote Tasky

, for not saying the oath properly .

[Budja]

Jim is pretty heavily giving off newb-tells here.
Plum responded well.
Null all round.

@Mysterio, I don't understand how Button in particular stands out to you. That quoted post doesn't look unreasonable to me.

Preiview Edit: ^ I think I have point of view as KHG here.

[Budja]

^ That doesn't make sense. Your not voting for me.

[Budja]

Considering the Double Vote appears to be a one day only thing, the claim was fine.

unvote, vote VasudeVa

, don't like his vote.

[Budja]

@VasdeVa, you pushed jimfinn to L-2 after his reaction which gave off pretty clear newb tells. Scummiest thing I see.

@KHG, not a good play by Mysterio, but scummy?

[Budja]

^ QFT
D1 claiming is never (that I have seen) a good idea.

@KHG, my point is claiming VT at this point isn't pro-town or pro-scum.

@VasudeVa, can you elaborate?

[Budja]

Quick post:
Do NOT name claim.
Do NOT lynch Mysterio.

[Budja]

re. Mysterio. I agree pretty much entirely with Plum on this. Still, I am leaning town, it seems a little to brazen to be newb-scum.

unvote, vote Narsis

, commented early, voted later.

[Budja]

@Button, Weak != scummy. VasudeVa should haven't said that either IMO but its not scummy.

Glad the Narsis wagon is building steam. Thor's posting is good posting.

@VasudeVa, read Discworld! Its a humourous parody of pretty much everything and a great series in its own right.

[Budja]

@KHG, can you elaborate on your reads?
Why is Narsis scum over Mysterio now?

Looking back, FakeGod is just as guilty as Narsis over the Mysterio wagon. Happy to lynch too.

[Budja]

@Tasky, "commented early, voted later" => "Narsis commented early on the wagon, but didn't vote (or give a indication fo voting) until a wagon had built up".

@KHG, you did a very quick switch from Mysterio to Narsis. I'd like to know why (i.e your reads on these people)?

The whole "defend Narsis" post by Tasky was odd but on the whole I don't think it was scummy, just weak.
I like Plum's quoting of KHG though. Added to lynch-list

[Budja]

@KHG, Whether you are voting for him or not in a technicality. I want to know why are you interested in voting for Narsis rather than Mysterio who you looked quite happy to vote just a post earlier.
(i.e Why did you change your focus to Narsis?)

I am confused by the vitriol and scope of Tasky's attack - but suspect that if either Tasky/Narsis are scum then it's likely that only one of them is since I don't think scumTasky would make a post like that for scumbuddyNarsis since if we lynch Narsis and he flips scum that leaves Tasky in an awkward situation tomorrow.

^ Agreed.

More later.

[Budja]

I'd like to hear Narsis' response before voting for him. I will UNVOTE: Mysterio for now.

^ Explain this. Explain why you showed an interest in voting for Narsis. (and give me a proper answer this time.)

VOTE COUNT

Narsis (5): Plum, Budja, VasudeVa, Thor665, jimfinn
Mysterio (3): Tasky, Narsis, FakeGod
jimfinn (1): Chronopie
VasudeVa (1): TheButtonmen

Not Voting (2): Mysterio, KHG

With 12 alive, 7 votes are needed to lynch.

[Budja]

KHG, you kept dancing around the point of my question rather than answering it. (I asked three times).

I'm happy to switch to this wagon.

unvote, vote KHG

(Still think Narsis is scum.)

I'd like Chronopie to speak up a bit too rather than just latch to popular wagons/reads.

Preview: Ironic, KHG, since that is where you are getting a lot of your scumpoints.

[Budja]

I said I would consider voting for Narsis based off the previous explanations given. That was all I said, and I never moved past that point on Narsis.

No, you expressed interest in joining the Narsis wagon after been pretty strongly fixated with Mysterio. You didn't mention any arguments that had convinced you.
Whenever I tried to ask me about it you focused on relatively unimportant aspect of my post while missing the direct point, "what had convinced you to change your stance".
You still have only vaguely giving me an idea of why.

[Budja]

vote: Fakegod

@jimfinn, do

you

think Narsis is scum.

[Budja]

^ Chrono isn't bad either. Narsis's recent posting makes me feel better about him.

[Budja]

I think there are many scummy players; too many for them all to be scum. Narsis is certainly one of the scummier players, but I won't say with confidence that he is.

Who? Share your reads.

Re. Fakegod, His push on VV felt wrong, too strong for his playstyle.
He was already my #2, guilty of the same things as Narsis (case strengthened with Mysterio's flip) and Narsis lost a few scum points.

[Budja]

Chrono is a useless lurker.
Fakegod is scummier from his actions towards Mysterio (hop only after wagon developed steam) and VV (strangely passionate attack is at odds with earlier behaviour. I get the feeling he was seeking a target to vote.). Plum's point about his attitude to the KHG wagon is ok too.
So Fakegod > Chronopie.

[Budja]

@VV, Give up on the Button wagon. His reasons for attacking you were not scummy.

People really need to look at the difference between anti-town and scummy. Your post Fakegod, showed how VV has harmed the town but not why he is scum-aligned.

[Budja]

Button has been consistantly against you since day 1, FG joined quite enthusiastically after your Vimes-claim idea after been fairly apathetic day 1 (where your behaviour was quite simular).

[Budja]

He's lurking and being a VI.

Chrono, jimfinn and Tasky need to post in here ASAP.

[Budja]

I rest my case .

[Budja]

That does make me a little uncertain. I'll have to do some rereading.

[Budja]

Also, @jimfinn, what do you think of Narsis now?

[Budja]

VOTE: Chronopie

[Budja]

Did you read Fakegod yourself or just my attack?

[Budja]

@Thor, its a bit of both. Chrono's attack looks pretty much like its copy/pasted from my short attack.

[Budja]

No one touched my question about who besides Chrono made EXTREMELY suspect votes on yesterday's KHG wagon. Because. I think it could be the antidote to the KHG mishaps yesterday. That is. A wagon which we can all pile onto real fast but this time actually net scum with it. ANY BITES, OR DOES NO ONE LIKE COOKIES AROUND HERE?

I assumed you were talking about Tasky here. I'm all for him posting ASAP when he gets back but their are better suspects.

Narsis takes potshots and I wonder whether that wagon on him yesterday wasn't actually a doubleplus good idea.

He was slipping under my radar too . Quite a strong contender for the lynch with Chrono.

@Plum, what do you think of Thor's #403.

VOTE COUNT

Chronopie (4): Narsis, Thor665, Plum, Budja
FakeGod (3): VasudeVa, jimfinn, Chronopie
VasudeVa (2): TheButtonmen, FakeGod

Not Voting (1): Tasky

With 10 alive, 6 votes are needed to lynch.

[Budja]

@Button, I thought you thought VV was bussing?

I think Chrono should claim his target.

vote jimfinn

[Budja]

With 9 players alive, a massclaim is too early IMO.

[Budja]

Not really, you are very likely town. Chrono is uncertain.

My reads are very similar the same as yours. I'd prefer jimfinn ATM because he is the most useless/sheepy and I keep WIFOMing over Fakegod.

[Budja]

4 scum is a mini is extremely unlikely. We just got lucky with the investigation/no-kill.

@TBM, top suspects?
@VV, I went through that line of thought too re. daytalk/gambit. There are enough factors to stop me voting Chrono, but not enough to label him obv-town.
jimfinn reads newb and has no original thought. I haven't got much of a scumread on Button, elimination pegs him as possible scum, but his actions are null to me.

[Budja]

I'm not CCing.
Getting the one-shot powers is a point in FakeGod's favour, but not a confirmation of townieness.

I predict jim/Button as the scum at this point.

[Budja]

Note here that I am semi V/LA til Sunday thanks to exams.

Noted. -M

I agree FG isn't confirmed, but he isn't scum for getting the power either. (No, I'm not calling him town but I'd still rather lynch jim or Button. Those players have given me less reason to be uncertain)

EDWOP for jim's post.
UNVOTE: VOTE: Button

[Budja]

^ Confirmed town is very powerful.
Think about LyLo for example.

These additional powers are good but not an absolute declaration of towniness.

[Budja]

Exams over!
I'll be posting later tonight.

[Budja]

Your VV vendetta is quite silly.

I chose Button over jimfinn after jim's Fakegod support (he doesn't strike me as a buser and FG is one of the biggest counter options to Button). Fairly weak but I see little difference between them in scum-level.
As I have already said jim + Button are the lynches I will support today. This is heavily due to elimination of one from or another and both their uselessness (jim sheeps, Button tunnels). Yeah, anti-town != scummy but I'm IMO the chance at least one is scum is quite high.

@Thor, both Button and FG have been anti-town/anti-scum. Any particular reason you support a FG lynch over Button?

[Budja]

I'm not convinced of you case regardless of your alignment.
I find your reasoning flawed, I am much more inclined to see VV's guilty on Tasky as a pro-town action rather than a bus.
Occum's razor and I've had a town read on him for a while anyway.
You are tunneling.

@Thor, read-yes, comprehended-no.

I think jim/Button is unlikely now. jim/FakeGod is possible.
Change of mind, ignore my last post save that^.
UNVOTE: VOTE: jimfinn
for connections.

[Budja]

@Thor, I mean to say I missed it first time around. I get it now.

[Budja]

unvote, vote FG

Vote + power use show strong survival instinct.

VOTE COUNT

TheButtonmen (3): Narsis, Chronopie, FakeGod
FakeGod (2): VasudeVa, Budja
Budja (1): Plum

Not Voting (3): TheButtonmen, jimfinn, Thor665

With 9 alive, 5 is needed to lynch.
Deadline is Friday 17th.

[Budja]

I could see a townie trying to persuade Thor, but removing his vote? That bugs me.

[Budja]

@Thor, posts like this are why jimfinn is suss ^. He's a big sheep.
(but FG is proving to be a better lynch.)

@FG, your use of the word confirm is wrong. The mod show that powers are being given out to players. We don't know the criteria or even if the mod is the one doing it. All we know is getting a power mean you get a power, no more.

[Budja]

@Fakegod, its hard for me to be sheeping I was the first one to point it out. Also my case just fine, if compact. Plum said it better than me, you are more concerned with survival than scum-hunting.

[Budja]

^^ Gambler's Fallacy is exactly what FG is doing.

[Budja]

If I thought it did, I would have unvoted.

[Budja]

^ The problem is the more days that pass, the stronger a confirmed-town player is.

I must admit that my reads are a bit all over the place ATM. VV's point re. Tasky last attack hits me with more uncertainty.
UNVOTE: VOTE: jimfinn, this is my last switch. If FG or Button were scum I had jim pegged as the partner.

@Plum, I don't blame you. I've been distracted from this game recently and my play has suffered.

[Budja]

@Button, eh I'm really not sure anymore. I've WIFOM-ed myself a little too much.
jimfinn doesn't have as much of the uncertainly you and FG have.

@Chrono, you have no reason to be proud of being anti-town. Pick a side here.

[Budja]

Uh Thor, you

can't

vote.

[Budja]

It looks like there are 7 hrs until deadline and I am going to bed now.
Button and Narsis get to choose if jim or Fakegod die.

[Budja]

I want all players to repeat the following statement, word-for-word.
"I am aligned with the city watch and win when all mafia are dead".

[Budja]

Feel free to start the claiming Button.

[Budja]

..and to finish off.
Captain Carrot, neighbour with Thor.

My power for today is a lie-detection which I can use for alignment purposes (hence the quoted statement). I haven't used it yet, but it has made me uncertain something else.

What is the chance that two "day-investigative" powers are chosen.
Also, how does "Drunkenness" link with investigation? All other powers link someway to their ability, but Vimes was always weaker when drunk.
I (shock) agree with Button. I think VV is scum.

I've sent in my lie-detect on a player I would guess as third scum in the above situation.

[Budja]

Shit. I missed.
Now I feel stupid.
Plum is town.
The odd night-kills had me paranoid.
Heading off to uni now.
Feel free to yell at me but tell me what you think of VV.

[Budja]

The thing which is getting to me is the scum's choice of nightkill.
I'm pretty sure Thor is town and Plum fitted perfectly into my scum-team theory.
---

I also think Chronopie is town. Considering Thor and I bring little, if any extra power to the town and Narsis flipped PR.

So:
TheButtonmen
VasudeVa
FakeGod
with Thor as a outside chance.

Considering VV/TBM have been on each others throats for most of the game, (I cannot believe VV would bus Tasky and Button),
VOTE: Fakegod

[Budja]

@Thor, it would have fit my theory perfectly. Also, the fact that players like Narsis are dying made me think someone on "town" side of the scale was really scum.

Right now my bet is heavily on VV/Fakegod as the scumteam.
I may have been dead wrong with my guess of Plum but drunkeness = daycop doesn't make sense to me like the other powers. I wouldn't mind other comments on this!

@VV, that kind of speculation doesn't work for me. If power-getters were town, then scum wouldn't have much of a hope.

[Budja]

I take your point. It could make flavour sense as a "paranoid day-cop" too. Dismiss that.
What it does explain which I didn't mention was the odd interaction of FG/VV re. the claim.
Well, regardless, I'm happy (or at least as happy as I am going to get) with FakeGod.

[Budja]

@VV, my WIFOM had a little more basis, but Thor has shot it down anyway .

[Budja]

^ A bit simplistic to split over those lines. It might be that I am easily swayed, but I am now back to "iffy" on your scummyness.
FG however, needs to die. You and Button are not both scum. The rest have town reads.

[Budja]

1. FakeGod suggested it earlier and was shot down. Admittedly, the lack of an "empowerer" type role surprises me and I did speculate that scum choose the power-getter, but confirmed town are more and more powerful as the game goes on and I don't believe that the mod would take such a risk. Thor's rebuttals were quite good, IIRC I agreed with all of them.

2. It was a theory, I was surprised to get two "cop"-type roles and looking at your power-name "drunken-ness" lead me to speculate a VV-Plum-Tasky scumteam. However, placing you as a "paranoid cop" fits flavour and balance so I am back to square one on that.
Right now with the elimination of town-reads and the solid belief that you and Button are not scumbuddies, Fakegod is the way to go.
That sums up my entire thought process of the day really.

[Budja]

If he does flip scum, I will be surprised.
Waiting...

[Budja]

^ Plum is confirmed town.

Now, the reveal.
Thor and I are not neighbours, we are lovers which he can confirm.
What I suggest is that we lynch one of FG/Button today. Should that fail and both of us survive the night, you can lynch one of us, killing us both. I would be fine self-hammering tomorrow.
Since my suspects ATM are Button and Thor, this seems good to me.

[Budja]

That's L-1.
I am perfectly willing to hammer, later.
I don't think FG in that scum-team would make sense.

(On a side note, Fakegod/VV might actually have been right . This is worthless speculation at this point, but I think scum gave out the powers.)

[Budja]

I'm not planning on hammering you, Thor promised a post and Plum has to check in. I probably should have a second look too.

The later was just idle speculation, so I can say "I knew it!" post-game if it happens .

[Budja]

I am not certain, if I was I would have hammered and been done with it.

However, scum have been killing relatively scummy players and that is something I cannot see a FG/Chrono/Tasky scumteam doing, especially after Tasky's death.
Chrono's actions also suggest scum-coaching to me, and I don't think FG-scum would be a risk-taker.

[Budja]

^ It would help if you and Button were less apathetic.

@Plum, all the player who have received powers have been considered scummy (day 1 doesn't count here). That would help me believe my pet theory above.
The only powerful powers were VV's and mine. The town isn't really that strong. I wouldn't be surprised if the third scum was also a goon.

[Budja]

@FG, I want you and Button to fight, not just wait for the rest of us to decide.

[Budja]

^ Yeah, I was just about to correct you.
No lynch = bad idea.

[Budja]

^ Right on all counts.

VOTE: Button
Pretty much everything points this way.

VOTE COUNT

TheButtonmen (2): FakeGod, Budja

Not Voting (3): Plum, TheButtonmen, Thor665

[Budja]

If one of us is killed, Fakegod is scum.
I'm pretty sure we will win on Button's lynch.

[Budja]

^ Should we both survive the night, I will self-hammer.

Waiting on the hammer.

[Budja]

The flavour was good. I liked your attempt at capturing Pratchett's style*.
I am surprised with the way you assigned PR's, I really was expecting them to be handed out by scum at the end . FG was right for the wrong reasons.

Anyway I enjoyed this game despite my completely faulty scum-dar.
(Notice my late breadcrumbs on the delayed kill. That was my backup plan if FG was scum.)

*including footnotes.

[Budja]

Lover's QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/44/H/MjZDuG4NLVkT

I did underestimate you Chrono .

[Budja]

Yeah, well I ended up second guessing my every read in the end and we didn't really trust each other.
After this, I think it would be a lot of fun to play as a Mason.

[Budja]

The way you could work as a team (much like a "town scum-team") interests me. I think conflicting reads and playstyles would make being a Hydra quite difficult.

If we were confirmed Thor, I think we would have been more effective. Trust is quite powerful.