Ladies Night -- Game Over

[esuriospiritus]

/confirm

[esuriospiritus]

Y halo thar.

Tell me about your playstyle, your in-game experiences and what you offer the town by being alive.

I empathize with a lot of what Haylen says. I suck at being town too, but that's partially because I fucking LOATHE playing town. Deception is much more of an interesting concept to me than deduction, and I am better at it. I kind of float around in a pool of cluelessness as town sometimes, and like Haylen that's something that no amount of reading up on theory has really helped me with. I've realized lately that I am more likely to find someone town than I am to find someone scummy enough to start a new wagon on, so lately I've been trying to figure out who the town is and work backwards through PoE rather than trying to figure out who the scum are directly. We'll see how that works.

I have two scum games on this screenname and another on an alt that I replaced out of. I won both of the games on this account, though one of them I don't really credit to me, as ... sotty of all people (hi sotty!) pretty much pulled our team through for the win. That was my first newbie on this site (I had played four town games on another site previous to joining here).

I don't keep track of my town win/loss record, because frankly I just don't care about it like I do my scum record. <_<

I have yet to play third-party.

I will probably go for a stretch of three days without posting at least once throughout the duration of the game. If I can't think of anything interesting to say, I'll just stay silent rather than post "I don't have interesting to say. x y and z are still town and q is probably scum. Nothing has changed from where I'm sitting."

I am bad about leading bandwagons, unless something seems really really obvious to me. I am more likely to follow someone I perceive as a strong obvtown player, and I realize that's something I need to work on, but I have to work on getting more confident in my own reads first.

Umm... that's about it for now. <_<

Vote: Sotty

Hi. Are you scum?

[esuriospiritus]

Oh, one more thing: You can tell how interested I am in a game by the length of my posts. <_< Long posts = having fun. Lots of one-liners = "oh god scum, plz kill me and save me from this AGONY"

...Oh, and I suck at handling pressure. And that's pretty much as both alignments, although I think I'm probably worse if anything as town because I know everyone is accusing me wrongly.

[esuriospiritus]

Relevant, maybe, in that it shows Haylen is at least capable as scum. Telling of alignment... nope, can't say that I've gotten any tells out of it.

With any conversation like this it's important to keep in mind that unless someone actually goes and reads a person's meta, they can pretty much make it out to be whatever they want it to be, and this could be a useful tool as scum. "Oh look, I told them I'm a weak town player, now I can get away with playing weakly even though I'm actually not that bad" would be a probable scum line of thinking in Haylen's or my case. I'm aware of that, so I'm taking her description of her town play with a grain of salt (like I'm expecting people to take mine), but I don't really get a read from it.

I have seen her do the self-vote/crazy claim thing before, so that's not telling to me in any fashion, either.

[esuriospiritus]

Since we are old battle hardened war buddies wanna tell me if your scum? If you are I'll make your death quick and painless, I promise.

Nope. Boring ol' town. /sigh.

However from what I have seen of you Haylen, you overreact quite a bit and so it is a null tell.

/agree

unvote; vote: Apokalyptika

Gut, and like Hoopla said, overjustification. I have a vendetta against people using the word 'interesting' to describe a situation (#55). 'Interesting' could mean damn near anything and I've seen scum use it as a word that allows them to look like they're commenting on a situation without actually giving away any thoughts of real substance. At least Apokalyptika isn't guilty of a lack of elaboration on

why

it's "interesting", but it just kinda reads like fluff to me.

[esuriospiritus]

Camn,

If I have something new to say, I will not hesitate to say it, but if someone beats me to a point I feel like reiterating that point is contributing to the noise ratio, and I'd rather lurk than do that. I also don't have a hell of a lot of confidence in my ability to read people correctly, but I'm trying to work on that. I want to get better as town because I

want

to like playing town, seeing as how it's the role I draw most of the time, but it's a process.

I don't get a read off camn's post either way, UK. .-. What makes you think it's scummy, exactly?

[esuriospiritus]

esurio, hate to beat a dead horse, but do you regard the Haylen/Hoopla interaction to be more or less fluffy than my use of the word "Interesting"?

More fluffy, actually, but like anything else in the game of mafia it's the context that says everything, not necessarily the fact that there's fluff itself.

I haven't seen anyone give me love. /faux-emo

Super-easy Paws wagon is super-easy, and while I know it's probably not going to end in a lynch because nothing ever does this early in the game, I'm still wary of hopping on.

@Paws:

Is there anyone on your wagon you view as being too opportunistic in voting you? Why?

[esuriospiritus]

The constant AtE's make my head hurt and have NOTHING to do with this game!

Mercury goes retrograde soon.

THIS EXPLAINS EVERYTHING.

<_<

[esuriospiritus]

random discombobulated thoughts upon re-reading the thread, hooray! expect bad sentence structure/fragments/grammar because I am tired and taking a nap after this.

Her 69 actually bugs me seeing how she's accusing someone for over justifying yet is voting Apok for the use of one word.

I fail to see how this is the "hypocrisy" you claim it is. over justifying =! having a moderately reliable tell and using it, kthx.

I was just going to kind of ignore this because I didn't even think it was worth responding to, but in the light of camn vs chau seeming like a scum vs town fight to me (gut, lawl) chau was worth taking another look at for me.

if paws flips scum, take a look at sotty. The coaching in 110 made my gut twinge more than anyone else's suggestions/etc to paws.

cepi is town guise. agree with sentiment on chau. Chau has a disturbing knack for making things out to be a bigger deal than they are, I think, and I see scum intent with that. Push a boundary here, agitate a person there, until something sticks and then VOILA! a mislynch. That's the vibe I get, anyway.

unvote; vote: Chau

camn is probtown, upon reread.

DGB is intimidating (in a good way), but I thought that

before

joining this game, so meh.

Paws has ample experience on other sites to not pull the ZOMG IT'S DAY ONE I'M GOING TO NOT DO JACK CRAP bull.

GDS Mafia- 3:6 (33%) Town- 3:4 Scum- 0:2 Indy/Survivor- 0:0
Crazy Off-Shoot- 1:1 (50%) Town- 0:0 Scum- 1:1 Indy/Survivor- 0:0
Mafia Central- 1:0 (100%) Town- 1:0 Scum- 0:0 Indy/Survivor- 0:0

12 completed games. Unless the sites Paws comes from totally failsuck at mafia (not impossible, sure, but out of what looks like three different sites, I'd hope ONE of them would be semi-decent) Paws should know to not active lurk (another tell of mine, huzzah!). I didn't even notice this until re-reading the thread, but it makes the "zomg, but it's obviously a newb-town" a lot less likely imo.

current guess for scumteam if I HAD to shoot three people right this moment is chau/paws/sotty, overwhelmingly due to gut. Apo is the nonexistent fourth scum. HUZZAH.

ok slptiem

[esuriospiritus]

I'm really not quite so sure about sotty as I may have appeared in my post earlier today, DGB; it's just that if Paws is scum I immediately want to scrutinize Sotty, and Paws is pretty scummy, so therefore sotty gets put in my list too. TBQH I'm fighting a bias of

not

wanting to think sotty is scummy due to admiring what I've seen of her play (I have this problem with other people, too, but it's not as relevant due to the other people in question not doing anything to make me question the towniness I so want to believe they possess), and I'm trying to keep that bias from

actually

colouring my perception of her too much, but it makes me kind of waffly in my head.

Paws is being... silly (stealing your word, UK) with withholding thoughts about suspects. 'Silly' is really not the word I want to use, but I'm aware that I've come home from work severely agitated and I'm trying not to take that agitation out on someone else. So... 'silly'. BUT SRSLY PAWS, WHY ARE YOU NOT DOING THE ONE THING NUMEROUS PEOPLE HAVE ASKED YOU TO DO. FRELLING. SHARE. YOUR. THOUGHTS. ASRGIARGJADJGADFKAAAKLJASKLJGDKLJSADFLJKSADGLHAWRHLEIOHJ.

So yeah, right now I am waiting on Sotty and Chau to post regarding my post earlier today (and in general). Huzzah.

[esuriospiritus]

[quote="esurio, post 35]I have to work on getting more confident in my own reads [/quote]

but the wishy-washy language nags at me.

I don't want to come across as any more sure of myself than I am. It's still early, and just because a person's done one or two things I find suspicious doesn't mean they are the MOST OBVSCUM OF ALL TIME. OF ALL TIME~

Snow_Bunny:

-snip-
Come on girls, more camn love. This reaction to my vote is interesting.

Hmm...

interesting

? Given that this actually has no elaboration behind it, would you like to give some? Also, esurio, any comment?

Indeed. I missed this (and in searching for the post in question, I discovered UK's 103, in which "interesting" is used twice with not terribly much elaboration. HASDGAOERJGSKDLAJG. But that's like 5 pages back now and I'm lazy so quite frankly I cannot be bothered to pursue bothering UK over it. e_e)

...Upon finding the S_B post (177), it occurs to me that there

is

elaboration. The paragraph

above

the offending sentence:

Why are those two the only two options? Please, don't play dumb with me. A voting doesn't mean a lynch, and they are not on the same level. When a wagon builds, more info can be drawn upon, both on the wagoners and on the wagonee. With that extra info, a better, non-policy lynch can be reached. So, stop suggesting that a policy vote means a policy lynch. And, btw, just saying, it's only your opinion that policy lynching/vigging are great. I beg to differ.

Given context, I don't see the same use of "interesting" here as I attacked you for earlier. The use of "interesting" in conjunction with wishy-washy language in 55 set off my scumdar in a way that other uses of "interesting" hasn't (evidently). Context is everything. FWIW I think your 184 has largely redeemed you of that initial accusation -- goodposting is good.

@ UK 194: Here's that "interesting" popping up again. More recently, and no elaboration this time. Care to elaborate, UK?

How is the use if the word 'interesting' a reliable tell?

It's not, on it's own. On its own, it's just a red flag that makes me pay more attention to the rest of a person's post. "interesting" + wishy washy wording or no elaboration = non-committal, while trying to appear committal. Trying to appear committal without actually saying anything of value (does "interesting" equal scum-interesting or town-interesting or neutral-interesting? WE DON'T KNOW) = putting off actually putting opinions out there for a later time = scum intent. Thus "moderate".

When have I made a big deal out of something? Plus, you do realize what game we are playing right? This game is all about gauging reactions. You attack people and analyze their reactions.

The

manner

in which you attack people comes across as blowing things out of proportion and generally being opportunistic. I can't be arsed to go back and look over your iso right now though.

Why is Apo the 4th scum if you had a "moderately reliable tell"?

Because I earlier paired paws with sotty, wasn't letting up on you, and there are only three scum. at the time, was more sure about you than about apo. I've now let up on apo a little. You, I need to reread, which I am entirely too lazy to do right now.

[esuriospiritus]

I can't see scum protesting town-reads early on, which she did.

Could you elaborate on this, camn?

-

Upon skim-re-reading page 9 again, I've got a new theory milling around my brain. Going to go iso a couple people to see how it holds up. bbs. <3

[esuriospiritus]

In fact I'd be up for a Paws lynch even before the mod brings in a replacement. I doubt that this will gather much support, but that's what we need to do if we're going to lynch scum today.

This isn't the iso-related post I'm actually working on, but yes, I would be down for this, especially after seeing the replacement request.

[esuriospiritus]

Vote: Paws/replacement

You must unvote before voting someone else.

This vote brought to you by an incredulous looking old!Spock. Because this is how I will feel if Paws flips town.



Still working on that iso post.

[esuriospiritus]

Paws has given us absolutely nothing in either direction.

Irrelevant.

Paws

hasn't.

Other people

have in relation to Paws. Hold that thought, mmkay.

[esuriospiritus]

Okay. For this little experiment, let's pretend for the sake of argument that Paws has already flipped scum (because there's ample enough evidence there right now that, barring a SPECTACULAR improvement from the replacement, Paws slot is scum).

Now, before I do any of this, yes, I realize connecting players before anyone's even flipped is, generally speaking, a bad idea. However, even if Paws were to somehow get nuked and flip town right fucking now, I don't think this connection-analysis is for naught.

So.

CONNECTIONS TO PAWS AS OF POST 223.

Apo/Haylen

- apo didn't even mention paws at all until her last post. I initially got a town impression off of this post, but noticing it in this context gives me pause. I kind of get the impression upon re-reading this post that it's possible Paws and Apo are scumbuddies. The total lack of mentioning Paws prior to this post (by which time Paws already had 3 other votes on her and a few other people -- like me -- stating her scumminess but not outright voting her) and then suddenly jumping on the wagon to put Paws at L-3. There's also this, which in hindsight bothers me (although I admit I might just be nitpicking here): "One thing I did notice is your subtle defense of Paws." Apo, talking about Haylen. Really, there was nothing subtle about Haylen's defense of Paws. Nothing subtle about it at all. Furthermore, Haylen really came across to me as a self-appointed Guardian of the Newbie. She is active with the newbie section of the site, and it totally makes sense to me that she would be hesitant to pounce on a lurkernewb compared to the rest of us. In that context, Apo pairing the two of them is... bothersome. Speaking of Haylen, Haylen placing a vote on Paws could be the thing that made Paws finally give up and request replacement. (This seems to me to be not a reflection on Haylen's alignment, but worth mentioning anyway to let other people make of that theory what they will. I'd imagine having the closest thing to a defender end up voting you and feeling your lynch is imminent has got to make a newbscum crack.) Haylen's isos 24-27 seem genuine to me. DGB's observation to expect to find scum in one of camn, sotty, or haylen due to those being Paws' suspects applies, though.

camn

- is town if paws is scum, barring a well-played bus (but I doubt that's the case). DGB's observation to expect to find scum in one of camn, sotty, or haylen due to those being Paws' suspects applies, though.

cepi

is null for obvious reasons. So is

ojanen

.

chau

... surprised me, actually. I think if Paws is scum than chau is... not cleared, certainly, but

probably

not scum. Which is probably the best thing I've had to say about her all game Chau's aggressiveness toward Paws seems to fit her aggressiveness toward everything and everyone else in this game (for the most part), which is probably a point in her favour. Maybe.

DeeGeeBee

are Borg

is town. Resistance is futile. Paws-related analysis is irrelevant.

esurio[/i] is town. You want to argue otherwise, you're going to have to do your own gorram homework.

Fenchurch

is null due to lack of content, but defense of Paws seems genuine if likely misguided. (If paws is town, could be getting on the correct side of a popular mislynch. Camn mentioning something like this earlier reminded me this was actually possible, lawl.)

Hoopla

is null. She just hasn't said enough.

S_B

... er, hasn't posted pretty much anything about Paws, but unlike the above posters has actually been here enough to have imo. Some scumpoints awarded for that if Paws flips scum.

sotty

- Coaching suspicions in iso 7 still apply. DGB's observation to expect to find scum in one of camn, sotty, or haylen due to those being Paws' suspects applies. Not looking good for sotty if Paws flips scum.

sucrose

also initially dissented on the Paws wagon. Sucrose's observation about UK's reaction to Paws is

perhaps noteworthy, but I haven't read UK's iso yet soooo....

very likely unfounded, upon looking at UK's iso.

UK

- "Not particularly one I disagree with, but not particularly one I feel will lead to scum." This is a sentiment that, IIRC, I agreed with at the time (I think this was about the time I said something about the paws wagon seeming too easy). Being resistant to lynching before the replacement comes in at least comes across as a legit townie concern. Slight town points.

----

Overall I don't think this has changed a hell of a lot on my own personal reads of people. Chau is a little bit lower on my scumlist, Apo a little bit higher. Mostly I think this post will be good to look back after a Paws flip -- which I think is inevitably soon at this point.

[esuriospiritus]

broken tag fail, argh. I knew I should have previewed it. :<

[esuriospiritus]

You must unvote before voting someone else.

Meh.

unvote
vote: Paws

L-1.

PREVIEW EDIT: Fen, it looks like you... completely ignored me, even down to ignoring that DGB posted a town read on me. :<

[esuriospiritus]

<insert ojanen daytalk catch praise echoing here>

I'm going to give some love to my other games tonight; hopefully by tomorrow we'll have a Paws replacement.

Leaning town on ojanen but wary of bias due to agreeing with her when she's effectively had 10 pages of testing the waters and gauging safe opinions if scum. (Is there a name for bias due to agreeing with someone? /toolazytogoogle)

[esuriospiritus]

Bah, go town, etc.

[esuriospiritus]

Whoo!

This was, I think, the first town game I've had in a while that I didn't have to just fake giving a rat's ass about. I genuinely enjoyed trying to hold myself to the high standard I saw most everyone else playing at. I'm glad I died when I did, though -- I was starting to feel a little in over my head.

Paws was definitely the right lynch. Even though she flipped town.