Mafia on Holy Orders (Game Over!)

[pacman281292]

Vote: Sebguer.

His avatar is WIFOMing me.

[pacman281292]

Dammit. 7 pages of discussion on 24 hours.
Sorry for not posting, busy @ university. No time to check.

*rereads*

Rereading, I find the whole "lynch Furcolow FTW" thing on page 2-3 just stupid. It's based on meta (a very stupid meta), so it makes no sense.
Many of the reactions there are just ridiculous. Will need to ISO some players in order to asess those actions adequately. Some of them might be scumtells, and many people are just trying to pull up the VI flag in order to protect themselves. Some people are even trying to just pull out scumbuddying this early!

What Fur said on page 4 about policy lynching has some basic logic sense, but has a main problem: it might involve lynching out a pro-town, which is IMO a higher cost than just a little bit of clean-up in thread (not to say Fur has contributed himself to the cluttering itself a lot...). If we wind up lynching scum, it would be awesome, but in order to pick up a scum we might need some scumhunting directed at those VIs before just hurrying and policy-lynching at total random.
If what you wanted was to policy speedlynch, I'm sorry but you're FAIL.
Fur has just tried to defend himself out of meta, too. I'm gonna give him a closer ISO review now. On the meanwhile,

FoS: Furcolow

Animorph, vezok and Friend also seem to be just filling the thread with one-liners where they just attack everyone recklessly. They are going to my ISO check.

Finally, while I head for the ISOs (whose results I'll try to post today, but if I can't I will do them tomorrow),

@Mod: Votecount please?

I'm working on it right now, as it turns out. ~Vi

[pacman281292]

Darn. This game is way too fast.
Nevermind the ISOs. I'm making a more general reread now (expect its results tomorrow). I'll be more active during the weekend, then when we're again on weekdays I will be pretty much caught up.

[pacman281292]

Well, I have no idea about why did vezok ping into my scumdar. He has posted nothing yet
But, why did AGar vote him?
Beefster was also under the same trouble. Under pressure with no reason, as he had hardly posted yet. Huh?

The whole policy lynch thing is stupid. I don't like how serious that have gotten. I need someone to explain why the hell are we wagoning Friend.
I'm definitely ISOing animorph. Many of his posts are just reckless attacks, and I'd like to give that a closer review.
Oh and

Unvote

. No reason to keep that random vote already.

[pacman281292]

Quick quick link a game reference one Friend quick quick quick!

YOUR COUPON FOR A FREE DAY HAS EXPIRED.

YOU GET ROPE FRIEND.

What? after 1 hour?

[pacman281292]

@Fur: Nah. zwet's statements have made sense, and while that post restriction makes it harder to find scumtells on him, his statements as of now have made pretty much sense.

[pacman281292]

@Fate: I don't care about any meta. So, I won't just laugh and say "oh, meta" at your posts. You're seriously getting to my nerves now.
Please try to get serious.

Yeah, I agree with you there.

We should watch who gets smoke/sunlight and act upon that.

Outguessing the mod = BAD
What if, smoke and light are unrelated to alignment (or related in an unusually complex way), we lynch someone with smoke, then someone with light, and both are town?
Outguessing the mod contains often lots of WIFOM, and while needed at experimental mechanics games like this, might be severely misleading if used the wrong way.
Also @MOD: Thread title is outdated (we're at battery 86%)

I knew I was missing SOMETHING... ~Vi

[pacman281292]

Socrates, what do you think about Fate's bogus "timing" argument?

Fate, The Voice of Socrates, Herald to the unwashed masses, has spoken. I seen no need to trouble myself with this issue.

It's very much in character for Fate, and is an argument I am not unsympathetic towards. You deployed a meta on an unfamiliar character with no further attempt to asses his motivations, giving the impression that you are not really worried that he is scum. Its an easy read for scum to fabricate, but one would normally expect a townie to be more paranoid. Compare to pacman's last post.

@Soc: I thought tiny text was forbidden.
Also, what do you mean at referring to my last post? I don't entirely understand that part.

[pacman281292]

vote: furcolow

you are a terrible player

wtf

[pacman281292]

Back to activity. Haven't fully read yet- any amazing revelations that go against Furc being scum?

I am not a medic.

unvote

glad noone voted me when I voted me
I was voting me because I wouldn't ever do that as scum
therefore, I am not scum
I already knew that, but I was trying to prove it to you all

I was also doing it for another reason. I wanted to see if I would get smoke on that post. I was "taking one for the team", sort of.

What. The. Hell.

Vote: Furcolow.

What you did right now is what scum would do (try to pull out a shitty reason to get called town, and further worse in a meta-following town like this). You're just WIFOMing us, and in a really horrendous way.

[pacman281292]

ok, guys, i'm going to go ahead and claim
I am just a townie. This wagon on me will be a mislynch if I am lynched. I wanted to act blue and draw a hit to help our team, but this pressure is unfounded and unwanted.

Err... what?
@MOD: Votecount please?

[pacman281292]

Also, what do you mean at referring to my last post? I don't entirely understand that part.

You were all like "I don't care what your meta is, Fate, I don't trust you!" Speaking of which, what IS your take on Friend defending Fate via Meta?

That was more meant to be "I don't care what you meta is, Fate, please chill down you're getting annoying!".
And I've no idea about the interaction between Friend and Fate. Gotta recheck...

[pacman281292]

Resigned myself to my impending lynch.

AtE?

[pacman281292]

Wraith's play as of late does not sit well with me... as has been pointed out by others.
Also, I could easily see him using a policy I use when playing which is: regardless of what you are asked, never lie when confronted with an obvbait question.... i.e. if you are scum, and someone just flat out asks if you are scum, don't deny it, just don't verify it either. When fate asked him if he was town, he didn't say yes, just "why are you asking.

Unvote, Vote: Wraith

Obvbus

I won't say that instantly, but his reasoning is bad. "Are you town?" questions are just plain ridiculous.
Welcome M=W!

[pacman281292]

Why the hell are we wagoning vezo?
For Active Lurking?

Sorry guys, but I'm not following. I'm not a Lynch All Lurkers fan.
Also, many people is just screaming around without saying any content, trying not to be branded as active lurkers just because they are notable.
Animorph might fall into this category IMO. His last non-fluff post was in saturday (and was asking to outguess the mod), and has hardly posted any content. A great part of his posts (if not all) have been one liners.
Fate might fall into borderline to this. A large amount of his/her posts are just nonsense screaming, asking to wagon someone just for the sake of lynching. I don't see him/her as being helpful, and I won't buy any meta reasoning to allow this. (S)he needs to contribute seriously.

FoS: Fate

However, I agree that Vezo needs to wake up, and start posting into this game.

Furcolow has contradicted himself many times. I just don't see what the hell is he trying to do there. I'm confused.
I hate those posts from some people saying "oh this guy is sooo obvtown". The only person I have a townish read of is zwet, but his post restriction might make him look townier, maybe because it simplifies his arguments, disallowing him to post actual full reasonings.
Gotta iso Wraith. He's acting quite odd lately...

[pacman281292]

drunkpost coming here. Don't expect much quality.
FoS: Wraith. His latest posts have just said "I'm not scum!" in many creative ways. No content at all, just pushing for the other wagon.
vezo seems to be making the exact same thing (while not AtEing as Wraith is). Wraith would rank into my scumlist higher than vezo, however. I seem to not to catch the point on vezo's wagon.
Also, I still hate when people *cough friend cough* just start saying "personx is scum" without the slightest bit of elaboration. Just saying (and repeating).

[pacman281292]

The post above me is AtE. No good.
Blergh, no idea on what to do. I'm not hammering wraith; his actions while over pressure haven't been good, but vezo's deffenses were poor, even for such a poor wagon as his was at the beginning.

[pacman281292]

EBWOP: NO MOD NOT YOURS; I MEANT WRAITH'S
NOOOO MOD'S GONNA PUNISH MEE!

May I recommend... THE GUILLOTINE?

(Actually, it did include an appeal of some kind...) ~Vi

[pacman281292]

I think it's hammer time.

Pac, do you still think that your vote is best served on Furcolow?

Let's see, in the other game, vezo had longer and more contentful posts, he seemed to know what's going on, he didn't OMGUS, and in general didn't do what he's been doing in this game. He was town.
Oh, you're wagon is "full of scum", is it, vezo? Do you think that's true, or is it just mass OMGUS? And I don't think the mod will care if you're just saying it to get the good stuff. Tomorrow, I'll look into fate and wraith.

Link? Cause I flat out don't believe you.

He hasn't made himself look townier, but you're right, I'm wasting my vote there. So,

Unvote.

Wraith, what you're posting is more AtE . That makes you look worse.

[pacman281292]

You're still sitting on your fence.

*facepalm*

[pacman281292]

NOOO FATERAGE IS BAACK NOOOOOOOO
*hides under the bed*
*comes back to the computer*

I won't buy any stupid meta argument. Wraith isn't contributing, and AtEing while under pressure. While I consider Fur still somewhat scummy, you're starting to become annoying at best and scummy at worst, Fate.
I'm not ruling out a Fur revote, but if I do that should be under a solid basis, not under screamposting pressure.

[pacman281292]

Can someone traduce #481 for me please?
More stuff tomorrow night. Gotta sleep.

[pacman281292]

Can someone define traduce for me?

Stop showing the fuck off, college isn't all that and a cup of briskets anymore

Then, please rephrase 481 in an understandable way.
Duh.

And, I don't get why Wraith is semiconfirmed.

[pacman281292]

my read on him is townie
i'm sticking by my read
i am not hammering him, unless 3 people in a row tell me they want me to

Why in the world are you trying to get other people to peer pressure you?

You very obviously want to hammer, and you very obviously don't want responsibility for said hammer.

Fate, should we be derailing this wagon?

This.

We're not discussing. Not even scumhunting. Wraith doesn't want even want to defend himself.
I'll ask Fur why does he think Wraith is obvtown. I totally disagree.
And, no need to consensus, Fur. If you are cowardly avoiding responsibility for the hammer, then don't think on hammering. If you think Wraith is town (and I disagree) then don't offer to hammer, because you're contradicting.

That's it. Good bye Wraith. Slammah hammah.

Vote: Wraith.

[pacman281292]

Dang.

Vote: Furcolow.

[pacman281292]

vote:Furcolow

I don't remember this being Nightless...

Did you read the OP? It's a modified Deep South.

Also, are you really going to keep on this Furcolow policy lynching bullshit?

-_-

FoS: animorpherv1

Consider yourself special, I don't use them very often.

We're not policy lynching Furc.
We're lynching him due to his scummy reactions against Wraith's stuff.

[pacman281292]

lol let's wagon !!!!!!!!!!! !.
Meh, mod disallowed us to.

[pacman281292]

obvious scumwagon
pick someone on my wagon (preferably zwet or mothrax) and counter-wagon

Is this supposed to be a defense?
heh.
Hahahah.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHAHAH!!!
*serious*

This post is horrible.

[pacman281292]

@SP: It's the Battery power bar...

[pacman281292]

@SP: It's the Battery power bar...

Please just don't speak.

?

[pacman281292]

Oh my Explain was at pacman btw

I quoted the mod post, seeing Socio's post. I found 2 random strings o' numbers.
One of them was the one you pointed out. The other "random stuff" that I could find was the code used for the batteries.

[pacman281292]

VOTE: PACMAN

I THINK MY WORK HERE IS DONE.

FoS: SocioPath

for voting me without the slightest speck of reason.

I am down with that.

unvote
Vote pacman

FoS: vezokpiraka

for coming back from lurking with a 0-reason vote.
Heh.

[pacman281292]

@Socio: OK IF YOU WON'T REPLY TO ME THEN I WON'T ASK.
BUT A BAD LYNCH I AM

I'm really tempted to switch my vote to vezokpiraka. He's not even able to explain why did he want to throw the "follow-the-shoutposter" vote. Scummy vote.
Now call me OMGUSer, scums...

[pacman281292]

V/LA for unknown time (hopefully short).
No time to post right now, sorry. Altough, by a quick skim, I see you've started to wagon me. Heheheh...

[pacman281292]

I'm no longer V/LA (internet seems to be back).

I have scum meta now
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=14990

so you all can see i'm town this game based upon that

stop my lynch right now

No meta for me. Shut up.
If you don't know why do I hate meta soo much, is b/c scum can just try and play differently to their scum meta, say "I'm not scum b/c that's not my meta" and pass by. Meta is a glass filled with exquisite chilean WIFOM, and I'm not taking it, sorry.

i have to go mow the lawn, but honestly, i have no reason to be at L-3 or whatever. Town need to unvote me, honestly, if you ever trust me on AtE trust me this game. I am a very devout person, and this thread title has special significance and meaning to me. I relate being town this game to actually fighting in a holy war on the side of good, justice, and everything right

AtE makes you look just worse.

Making full reread now. Just answering some stuff that just popped up to my eyes.

[pacman281292]

OK. I read plum's pbpa, in which her conclusion is that I'm scum. Her main argument is:

*headdesk* This indicisiveness is reading leaning scum, not leaning town read out of it. The 'I don't want to hammer' syntax and tone especially seem to be the product of not wanting to be saddled with blame which might lead to suspicion. Doesn't even give an idea why he doubts Wraith as Town, just that he doubts Vezo as not being a better wagon - mentality is scum debating between two competing wagons? I DO NOT LIKE.
Wait, why? THIS IS AN IMPORTANT QUESTION. Aso pacman's next post pander to Soc prodding him about aving his vote on Furc BUT doesn't commit to anything WHIILE incriminating Wraith - as if he's afraid he might have to hammer soon or risk suspicion.

Syntax? Tone? How the hell does this part of your attack work?
In fact, I wasn't totally sure about Wraith. It was annoying to see him just whining about don't caring about the game anymore. It was scummy too, and altough I made the wrong call there, his attitude was really hurting us. His defense posts were just, either trying to push the other wagon, or AtEing on the form of "oh well lynch me and see me flip town". NOT putting good reasoning on either way.
Scum debating two competing wagons? There was sooo much people just jumping relentlessly between wagons and no mention of them? C'mon.
vezok's wagon wasn't enough strong yet. That's why I don't jump it. Also, it's obvious that a scumteam isn't made of only one person. Someone holding suspiciousness for only one person can be accused of tunneling. There are way too much scumbags floating around.

Also, many of her points are based on "tone". Is it more of the hunch-type, or is there something that can be explained here? And if the second, explain.


Welcone CKD!

Plum calls for town unity in her 656, all in bold. I, despite being in Plum's scumlist, totally endorse that post.

Furc and vezok start bickering in a really lulz way. Zwet calls us to lynch Vi. What should I say?
hm... l0l?
Locke says I'm scum because I hate meta. Check my previous post, where I say why do I hate meta stuff. I don't like LaL because I often fell for it in my early days at MS, and it was often an epic-fail. I hammered wraith because, well, read my response to Plum's accusation.

More swinginess from Furcolow. Since when I left my computer 2 nights ago, he voted M=W, then mothrax, then M=W again, then me, none of the above votes with reasoning (mine just to avoid being top wagon). AND HE CALLS THAT TOWN IS REALLY SPLIT.
Furc is commanding in my list of scum. by a REALLY WIDE margin.

Top three scum:

Sebguer:
Friend:
Furcolow:

unvote, Vote: pacman

You name a top 3 scum, to vote someone outside the top 3. Why are you voting me then?

I don't know what to say about later posts. Many of the posts have been ridiculous bickerings about useless stuff. Furc has been obviously vote-hopping, and his arguments for voting me are almost nil. So,

my vote stands.

[pacman281292]

You name a top 3 scum, to vote someone outside the top 3. Why are you voting me then?

This feels scummy to me. It shows that pacman wasn't reallly paying attention to the thread and tries to invalidate Soc's vote.

unvote, vote: Pacman

Heh. I just thought it makes no sense that you don't vote your own suspect, but rather what someone else tells you. So I'm asking him whether or not he has any actual reason to vote me. It's not a "WHY ME!?!?!"; had he voted anyone else with the same "reasoning" I would have replied the same.

[pacman281292]

look at the straight up players on the wagons
my wagon is just straight up scummy in terms of playstyle. you would think those guys voting me, if scum, would want to keep me around just to "fit in". Honestly, pacman, mothrax, animorpher, and vezokpiraka.... and pacman has the wagon on him?

I really don't support a pacman wagon, honestly, it kills me to know he feels like town and i'm voting for him so i'm really in a pickle here, shackled by what i need to do at this time..for now, i will have to

unvote

, and put my vote on someone when I feel like I can make a more informed AND obvious decision.

What is this post supposed to mean?

Also, meta=WIFOM when you try to defend yourself with it.

[pacman281292]

Do you honestly believe I am mafia, pacman? If so, why; and if not, why are you voting me?

Yes I do think you're mafia.
You're just swinging around votes w/o reasoning, jumping into the best wagon when the time comes. Your votes on M=W and mothrax have very little backing behind them, then you vote on me with no reasoning, just trying to push a quickwagon while I was gone. That vote was very scummy, and the other votes show you as wagon-hopper (is that the right term?)
This, and some reasoning I game on D1 (I'm too lazy to go for it but meh) are the backing on my vote.

[pacman281292]

Furc is so obviously town.

WHY?

[pacman281292]

because he's friend and he says so.

lol

[pacman281292]

Pacman scum here I come.

unvote
Vote pacman

I will switch on these two wagons until one is lynched.

pacman has done absolutely nothing to deserve an instawagon, apart from doing absolutely nothing suspicious, which is only a mild scumtell and deserves only some pressure, not immediate death.

Doing nothing sispicious is mild scumtell? me confused.
vezo, are you serious?

[pacman281292]

OK. Might anyone bring up WHY THE HELL ARE YOU WAGONING ME?
The latest two votes are "because I'm doing nothing suspicious". vezo, if that's supposed to be sarcastic, then explain why am I suspicious for you. If not, stop acting like a derp and go back to game.
I'm not even talking to Socio. He can go shout all the BS he wants. He's just plain annoying, I won't care to anything he says anymore.

[pacman281292]

Syntax? Tone? How the hell does this part of your attack work?
In fact, I wasn't totally sure about Wraith. It was annoying to see him just whining about don't caring about the game anymore. It was scummy too, and altough I made the wrong call there, his attitude was really hurting us. His defense posts were just, either trying to push the other wagon, or AtEing on the form of "oh well lynch me and see me flip town". NOT putting good reasoning on either way.

The post above me is AtE. No good.
Blergh, no idea on what to do. I'm not hammering wraith; his actions while over pressure haven't been good, but vezo's deffenses were poor, even for such a poor wagon as his was at the beginning.

"I'm not hammering Wraith" reads "I don't want to be saddled with the stigma of having hammered Wraith" (yes, there's a degree of subjectivity here, but a phrasing like "I don't want to vote Wraith because I'm not very sure at all he's scum".

[Call it briefing my words. I wasn't sure about the sense on the Wraith wagon, but his later actions convinced me of hammering]

Moreover instead of explaining at all the you doubted he was scum you throw out a weakish attack on someone else to justify staying off the wagon

[I was trying to state what I thought of the other active wagon (vezo's - I often try to post thoughts in all the active wagons when I have them, in order to not throw myself into tunneling)]

- it did not seem like sincere doubt, but more like you'd not reached a conclusion within yourself whether it would be better to hammer Wraith despite the consequences on increased scrutiny Day 1 or whether it would be better to bolster the Vezo wagon and if Wraith would go, someone else would take the scrutiny.

[I don't get exactly what you said there, sorry]

Spending your vote the entire day on Furc (as opposed to say Vezo, whom you also suspected and was an alternate wagon with potential, unlike Furc)

[In fact, my suspiciousness on vezo started to rise late D1, as during early D1 I saw vezo as just being lurking. On the meanwhile, I felt Furc suspicious, so my vote stayed with him the whole day]

gives me bad feelings about the sincerity of your scumhunting in this game as a whole. Together these give the impression of a scumbag who doesn't want the blame of hammering Wraith but not really because he doubts his read on Wraith, just because he's still debating whether Vezo is a better wagon, whoile voting Furc over both of them.

[I admit the blame on Wraith's hammer. It was a mistake, but Wraith's denial of the game was being totally unhelpful, and that was just starting to make us blabber around nothing]

The continued reiteration of the same points on Wraith seem to be there to justify a potential jump to the Wraith wagon while never seeming to come to new thoughts or conclusions over whether this major wagon was worth your vote or not. Seriously, every time you say 'he's AtEing but I'm still unsure and anyway (player) is being scummy so I dunnnnno'. Every one. [

In order to avoind falling into tunneling, and in order to not to miss any big thing]

This rings of scum unsure whether he wants to commit to the wagon that late, not Town actively trying to figure out whether Wraith is or isn't scum. Anyway, when did you go from 'Wraith is scummish but I'm unsure' to 'Wraith

[Incomplete thought... Might complete?]

Also, many of her points are based on "tone". Is it more of the hunch-type, or is there something that can be explained here? And if the second, explain.

Second, and done above.

I got it. Explanations above too.

You name a top 3 scum, to vote someone outside the top 3. Why are you voting me then?

This feels scummy to me. It shows that pacman wasn't reallly paying attention to the thread and tries to invalidate Soc's vote.

unvote, vote: Pacman

Not to mention he didn't notice that Zwets meant to vote me when he voted Vi. Also, caught skimming Pacman's ISO:

I meant that that post made no sense. Also, I didn't get that part either.

@Soc: I thought tiny text was forbidden.

Hoping for a Modkill? It can be read different ways; this at least is mostly gut but I dislike it muchly.

Not looking for a modkill. Just annoyed at the tiny text. Don't make a mountain out of a molehill there...

Everyone categorically dismissing meta as a tool: You're partly right, but meta does have a place and denying that it does at all is ridiculous. Some people have playstyle things they do as both Town and scum, for example. Those are nulltells, even if in general they could be considered scumtells. I think denying the thoughtful uses of meta is an easy way to dismiss and argument without arguing it.

Well, I mean, the ones using meta as an argument here are using it AS THEIR ONLY ARGUMENT. meta + any other valid argument might actually enforce the argument, but meta as the only argument on something (like an obvtown read) or meta used in self-defense are full of WIFOM.

SPYREX????

I'll hold to CKD's quickmeta of Vezo as a decent reason to hold my overwhelming desire to suspect him for the moment.

[pacman281292]

Pacman: I see your explanations in response to me. It doesn't change my opinion of the instances I called out very much. Your interpretation is clearly along the lines of the impression you initially tried to give off, but it doesn't change the fact that when I read the statements themselves I see the very possible scum motivations for them.

Yep. I did see possible scum motivations there too. But, I did see town motivations as well, which were the ones which made me post that.

[pacman281292]

Mhm. You've not convinced me that they're not scummy, though; I'm sorry.

Uh. No idea how would I convince you then. Already posted my thoughts on what you said...

[pacman281292]

@Plum

this whole cry for help/unison while on the surface, townish, reads as almost rehearsed, like scum planned it out.

That is why. Between the three of you(You, AGar, and Socrates) the call for order sounds like a huge rehearsed attempt to consolidate arounf you. Soc(rates) blatantly said he would follow you vote wise. It is quite possible he trusts you and has confirmed you in some way, but it is also possible that you are scum trying to lead the town by looking ubertown.

Every time I see this kind of argument I want to ram my head through my monitor.

I wanteed to do this too...
Calling for unison is no scumtell. Scum will often try to fuel up chaos in order to stain up someone at random. Calling for order is good - however, I admit that it has more than its fair share of WIFOM. So, it's nulltell. No scumtell.
I somewhat agree with AGar's last post until the part he starts getting offensive with Furc.

[pacman281292]

I somewhat agree with AGar's last post until the part he starts getting offensive with Furc.

Which part? The telling him I'm not going to stop my playstyle and he should replace out part? Or the telling him how people will be less inclined to think he's scummy if he's truly town part?

I love how Furc makes a big stink about it, while I tell Mothrax to DELETE HIS ACCOUNT and he just moves on with the game.

Seriously people, CONSISTENCY much?

No. The part when you tell him to go back to the road to rome. Not useful, and offensive.
And telling moth to delete his account? stop acting like a bastard and scumhunt for serious.

[pacman281292]

wow, I get why furc got so frustrated... lets all play the bandwagon game. Plum, you wanna sic your dogs on me?
too many indians, not enough chiefs.

Not getting this.
AAaaahh... this game is getting confusing... moth's posts are reallly hard to read.
Meh, gotta reread him then...

[pacman281292]

@AGar: I don't disagree with your case; it makes totally sense. What I hate about your posts is when you start getting offensive with them.

[pacman281292]

What about that post is scummy, Furc?

[pacman281292]

1) misuse of words
2) disapproval of ad hom
3) active lurking

1) Why misuse of words?
2) What the hell is this?
3) Hypocrisy much?

Well, I tried to reply to Plum's case. She wasn't satisfied. So, I wasn't sure on what to say from there on.
The case on mothrax does make sense. I tried to give in some points there (not sure this is the right wording), but then decided against because stuff was already spoken. So I answered other stuff.
I also decided to not to bother about CKD's try, because I did think it would fail. I found what I was going to say already spoken in-thread so much times, I just decided to let it go.
You have been active lurking even worse, Furc. Don't come up with hypocrisy there, scum.

[pacman281292]

I don't actively lurk. I am the most prolific poster within this thread hands down.

OH DEAR, THIS MAKES MY EYES BLEED.
Indeed, posting a ton of spam without content is as active lurking as punching in to post things without content each 48 hours. Post count is a good reference factor, BUT not an objective factor. I

c

ould give you an example, hadn't that example been an ongoing game (which it is...)

I am not satisfied with any of your responses, either, and you are not making sense if you're town. What does the case on mothrax have to do with the case on you? are you saying you know mothrax's alignment?

WHAT THE FUCK?!?!?!?!
You're the one who makes no sense. What makes you think I do know mothrax's alignment? What makes you feel unsatisfied with my answers?

ad hom is a shortened version of a term for slander/baseless attacks which generally contain many cusswords
attacking the person instead of their argument

I'm not sure, but I think I get the definition.
However, what makes you think I'm making ad hom? Answer please.

no, it is not hypocritical

FALSE

i do not actively lurk

FALSE

i spam, if anything

TRUE

and don't call me scum, when you are the one who is more likely mafia

Hypocrite. hahahaha...

This post is terribly scummy. No way you can miss this, guys...

Furc, you active lurk. Deal with it. Pacman has scum on his wagon.

Possibly, but:

You can't say "Pacman has scum on his wagon" and then not name names.

ok, well, i'm happy with a couple wagons rolling
and i still dont believe i actively lurk
i always post when i get on
plus it's good to pressure people the way ive been pressuring pacman for town imo

This post IS active lurking. And scummy.

Guys, I might seem like tunneling, but that's it. Neither vezo nor mothrax need the noose yet (I see both them scummy, but not much; vezo has been lurking (inactive?) and wagon-hopping like hell, and I like Friend's (or who's?) case on mothrax). Furcolow has clearly earned it himself.

[pacman281292]

VI town
That's what my playstyle appears regardless of my alignment
If you disagree with that, I'd like some insight so I can fix it.
I can see some differences myself, but I'm not sure if you really do, Judge.
You are not as above and beyond yourself as you might think.

No sir, you can't use VItown as an excuse. If you know you're being a VI, you should have improved that playstyle a very long damn time ago.
You're still scummy to me.
I know I'm no perfect man, if that's what you mean. What made you think I thought I was?

Furcolow (L-5) ~ mothrax, pacman, Chronopie
Me=Weird (L-7) ~ Locke Lamora
Plum (L-7) ~ zwetschenwasser

These people need to pick a wagon, preferably mothrax's.

I'm happy with my vote, but should I be forced to pick I'd pick mothrax.

Gotta reread Furc's last post in-depth. It seems to have some sense, but does have lots of AtE as well.

[pacman281292]

unvote vote mothrax

L-1.

EBWOP:
This vote IS scummy.
Any particular reasons to keep vote-hopping as you are?

[pacman281292]

pacman, you understand that he unvoted you right, to join that bandwagon? strange that you are attacking for that, however, i get why you think vezo is scum...

Moth you need to claim now (if you havent already).

he is at -1..so wait for the claim to hammer.

Yes I understand that he unvoted me.
That doesn't change the fact the vote is scummy (vote hopping much?)
moth claim plz.

[pacman281292]

Just because I got a null track on him doesn't mean he is clean... could be a prless scum who didn't submit the kill... I am not going to ignore my reads on him when I am nt a cop, a nulltrack is not as clearing as an innocent.

Indeed, null track won't clear AGar.

preview edit: AGar is my number one scumread, however his lynch is unlikely as he seems to have backing from plum and no one else seems to want to contradict that little makeshift alliance.

Whuh? I can't see such alliance. My read on AGar is null BTW if you ask me.

Why vote for someone who has little chance of being lynched.

Because you can't just go and vote someone you don't feel is scum. Just shifting your vote around won't help to your case, and makes you look scummy if you ask me.

I figured if I saw him visit someone who turned up dead or someone who was blocked... etc... it would enable me to push his lynch much more actively.

That's why trackers do track. However, tracking might bring lots of WIFOM after a claimed result on certain circumstances.

Furc is scumspect number two and the vote for him came after what looked(looks) like a large slip to me, but after it became apparent that lynch wasn't going to happen it was time to move on again.

See above.

and no there was no crumb. something I am working on in my play is crumbing and softclaiming, not so great at it (i usually end up fullclaiming by the time anyone sees it) so I didn't even attempt it.

No trouble I guess. Getting one of your breadcrumbs caught by scum might be quite nasty.

[pacman281292]

You are confirmed scum. That's why.

Why?

[pacman281292]

You are confirmed scum. That's why.

Why?

nvm, got ninja'd.

[pacman281292]

re vote ablility: I didn't really read my abilities past those of the tracker other than skimming, and since I see voting listed as an ablity on other mod's role pms I assumed it was on this one as well... you know what they say about assuming.
Socrates, please tell me why if I am confirmed scum you did not push my lynch until after my claim? Opportunistic much? Want to get rid of a PR or am I getting to close to your buddies?

preview edit: yes I am at l-1

Whuh? I don't get it...
I think many people is falling into mod WIFOM here.
Socrates needs to explain why mothrax is obvscum, still. I just don't seem to get it, sorry.

[pacman281292]

Whoa... so I was wrong with moth...
*headdesk*

I still don't get how the remaining battery power corrupts a player.

I'm thinking maybe we should try running the battery right down today and see what happens.

Huh?
Not sure, but outguessing this way doesn't seem to be a good idea. I don't think batteries are affecting the lynches there.
Which was Fate's death flavor btw?

I think we should test the battery theory.
Let's quick lynch furc and see what happens. Or we ca wait for time to pass until the battery is down at 5% and then lynch furc.
Anyway I won't change my vote. Sorry.
He had the worst bus in the history of mafia.

unvote
Vote furcolow

Actually, if Furc is scum, this might be the worst bus in the history of mafia happening right now...

I've always just assumed the remaining battery power recharging to just be the battery mechanic starting up again for the next day. I dunno, guess I over-simplified it?

Anyways, it's already been said that mechanic speculation is useless right now.

@Soc: Why a massclaim when we still have some 13 players left? Have you figured something out about the setup that we should know?

*goodposting*
I do agree with this post My thoughts on that vezo post are quite the same.

um. i picked an EVEN mothrax wagon with an EVEN pacman wagon pretty much
are you kidding me vezokpiraka?
you realize mothrax tried to lynch me quickly on d2 just like this?
are scum really trying the same tactic again? funny
you must be scum since you're behaving just like mothrax did, trying to put wagon suspiciousness on me

vote: vezokpiraka

This post is scummy.
This whole interaction is IMO compatible with vezo-Furc scumteam trying to get each other bussed.
So be it.

Vote: Furcolow.

[pacman281292]

pacman, i would give anything for you to replace out if you are town, because if you believe that, and are not lying scum, you are the worst mafia player i have ever seen

vote: mothrax

if need be
not sure if he's scum or not, but i dont have a town read on him

This was after the hammer.
You say you had to pick a wagon. An even wagon. How could that be?
And why do you say you had to pick a wagon?
You have to vote players you have a scum read on.

I'm talking about when I unvoted pacman to vote mothrax earlier on at all
The only reason I unvoted is on the possibility he was a town power role
The fact you are trying to accuse ME of bussing is funny
You're on every wagon with little to no reason

First, offenses aren't going anywhere (1000000th time I say this).
Second, I now realize that 2 scum trying to bus each other is less likely than any other option.This whole interaction was extremely strange, and I thought it might be something set off by the mafia to confuse any distracted town. However, on second thought, I realize that that would only be possible if all scumbags were idiots. Which is, well, not possible.
However, I'm now confused.
I think that, the most obvious scenario is one of them is town, other one is scum, but I just can't decide which one of them is scum. However, when I think on it, it's suddenly possible that they might actually be both VItown, maybe because I don't see such an epic dive possible by scum (yeah, call it "too scummy to be scum").
...
Meh. When I try to think on this dichotomy, the scenario of furc being scum is just very unlikely. Thus, I

Unvote.

Gotta think on it later when my mind clears up.

[pacman281292]

you're saying vezokpiraka is "too scummy to be scummy"? I know you're at LEAST implying it. I am way more suspicious of you after i saw the duration of which you were riding my wagon with your scumbuddy mothrax. You also make me want to lynch you more than vezokpiraka with this above post, as you are riding the "confused town" card which you have been refuting by faking like you're not a VI while acting like one. You are trying to give off that aura if you are scum, but you, if town, need to fix that.

The main reason I'm switching my vote is because you're like "maybe one of them is scum, and one is town. no, they're both town! furcolow is town!" which is an entire flip-flop of what you've been posting the last 20 pages.

unvote: vezokpiraka

vote: pacman

Indeed, I've just flipped around my opinion. I've seen you as scum for quite a time, but this stuff has just gotten me to realize that it's just impossible that you're scum. In the 1 scum-1 town scenario, it's just very unlikely that you're scum.
And, I'm now honestly obfuscated. I wasn't just pulling out the "confusedtownie" card. I'm gona post my thoughts either later tonight or tomorrow.

[pacman281292]

@MOD: I unvoted furcolow. Thnx.

What, I have to read the topic now too? ~Vi

Well, regrouped my mind already. Sorry ofr acting like a moron.
Reasons for my surprising flip flop: My "theory" of vezo and furc being both scum is just impossible. *slaps self* So, we have 2 cases left:
1) Both them are VItown, of a really moronic type.
2) One of them is scum, and the other one is town.
If 1, well, furcolow is town then. If 2, then analyzing the vote posts, I realized that vezok would most likely be lazy scum trying to get off with a "half-assed" vote, while furc at least tried to make a case on vezok. Tis whole interaction, in brief, put vezok higher in my scum list than furcolow (vezo was already high there...). Therefore, as one of them is town, then I decided furc had to be town. I unvoted then.
I left vezok for later. He could still be anything. That's why I did just unvote furc, instead of voting vezo inmediately.
Soc's graph seems a good way of brief the voting patterns. However, he should have answered questions on him as well. A graph =/= god. Your work is appreciated, but we (or at least I) would like to hear some thoughts or gainings on it. As well as answers to questionings.

I'm gonna make a reread on mothrax, then I will be casting my vote. I'll most likely be voting vezok (due to this whole vezo vs furc stuff), but it might change pending on reread.

[pacman281292]

xvart isn't even playing, furc.
SocioPath... well... *brain asplodes*
I will try to post something later tonight, too. Got tired from university.

[pacman281292]

@Furc: You're STILL on the wrong game. No gandalf.
*facepalm*


Now, about my promised reread on mothrax:
D1: He starts off by voting ani (now Chronopie) because he was pushing a policy lynch. I don't know why, but this interaction gives me a slight towm vobe for former ani, current Chrono.
Then, he proceeds to attack AGar (an attack that quickly turns into a personal bickering), then makes up some shitty reasons to attack Furc. moth vs AGar gives me nullread (well, it was just some personal bickering), moth vs furc gives null too.
D2: Starts by accusing Furc of misreading ("FLAIL SCUM FLAIL") Then, he answers some isolated questions (mainly on his reads, and on his hate on meta). then accuses Plum+Soc of trying to "pull wood on town's eyes". Both attacks seem to give me a slight town read on Plum, Soc and Furc. More bickering with AGar, then some defenses when wagon is fully developing.
then, odd claim, claims having followed AGar to nowhere. Now, this does give a strong scumvibe to AGar.
Setting a bickering war over pointless fluff is actually quite possible for scum. And he did. Then, he claimed having followed AGar anywhere. That should have meant he knew AGar didn't make anything last night. Hummm...

FoS: AGar.

Blah blah blah, answers stuff to his roleclaim, then falls under its own weight. Bye bye.

another interesting thing: No mention to vezokpiraka. Not the slightest one. I'd call distancing here; vezok has been quite a "notable" player for a long time, so no mention at all does ACTUALLY mean something IMO. Further scumlean for vezo.
Therefore, i'll

Vote: vezokpiraka.

[pacman281292]

So.
Pacman votes me. Agar jumps imediatly. He suspected me so I think he has a reason to vote me and then comes a locke lamora with a vote on me.
What can I say. I'm delited. If for any one time I thought pacman was town I don't have that feeling anymore. Annd I feel that locke is his scum buddy or at least he is scum.

unvote
vote pacman

lol. This is OMGUS to the max.
/quickposting at university.

[pacman281292]

Bleh.
Furc, I think we're not outguessing the mod. That post had more than "I dislike both wagons". Plus, we don't know what glow means FFS.

Socrates you know what I am going to claim.
\I was a vanilla at the beginning but on day 2 I got a power. No. I won't say what power.

This roleclaim is confusing... why can't you say that power I'm wondering?

[pacman281292]

Vezok is confirmed town, everyone unvote. (There is actually exactly one scenario where Vezo is scum, but it is incredibly unlikely.)

vote: Locke Lamora

for now.

Massclaim is officially useless.

Damn, I hate soo much when people say things of this sort without explaining. I'd like to know why is vezo confirmedtown, but it seems like in this game it's just "follow Soc" or "follow Plum", and anyone opposing is obvscum and needs getting lynched.
So, why is vezo confirmedtown? Or, if you can't answer this, which is the only one scenario in which vezo is scum?

[pacman281292]

pacman, maybe he has secret role-related reasons. Ever thought of that?

Yes I did, and so I asked if he could say at the very least the only scenario making vezo obvscum. That way, I would at least try and understand why vezo is unlikely scum. Just "vezo is obvtown, I can't explain but plz trust me" might be dangerous in case Soc is manipulative scum, or even confused town, so I wanted to ger at least a little part of why should I remove my vote.
This interaction is actually confusing me. I'd like to hear something from Soc before unvoting.

[pacman281292]

I'm a vanilla townie, with no additional powers. Flavor? See page 1.
Time for another mislynch! Woohoo!

I know what trusting someone means, but it is still dangerous. I see Soc as likely protown, but if he's scum we're screwed. Also, if he's just confused town not actually sure of what's going on we would be screwed anyways. Can't I ask FFS?

Unvote.

I'm answering to Plum later. Haven't read her WTF post yet.

[pacman281292]

@Furc: I didn't read Plum's post. Read my post.
After reading it:

pacman, maybe he has secret role-related reasons. Ever thought of that?

Yes I did, and so I asked if he could say at the very least the only scenario making vezo obvscum. That way, I would at least try and understand why vezo is unlikely scum. Just "vezo is obvtown, I can't explain but plz trust me" might be dangerous in case Soc is manipulative scum, or even confused town, so I wanted to ger at least a little part of why should I remove my vote.
This interaction is actually confusing me. I'd like to hear something from Soc before unvoting.

Do people not read?

Soc is Town. All the people trying to insinuate stuff about him today are being disingenuous, or acting as if they are. That's scummy. That was my beef with CKD earlier, but pacman, insinuating that Soc is manipulative scum,

especially

in a case involving roles and claiming, is a bad idea and v. scummy.

Humm... got it. But I still feel uncomfortable about the idea of blindly following Soc, sorry.

Bleh.
Furc, I think we're not outguessing the mod. That post had more than "I dislike both wagons". Plus, we don't know what glow means FFS.

Socrates you know what I am going to claim.
\I was a vanilla at the beginning but on day 2 I got a power. No. I won't say what power.

This roleclaim is confusing... why can't you say that power I'm wondering?

DIE ROLEFISHING SCUM DIE.

Need I say more?

lol.
Buying blindly a roleclaim doesn't seem to be actually a great idea, you know? However, I think I'll settle with this for now.

Damn, I hate soo much when people say things of this sort without explaining. I'd like to know why is vezo confirmedtown, but it seems like in this game it's just "follow Soc" or "follow Plum", and anyone opposing is obvscum and needs getting lynched.
So, why is vezo confirmedtown? Or, if you can't answer this, which is the only one scenario in which vezo is scum?

Um, dude. Remember what happened last time we (by which I mean, the Town minus players like you) followed Soc? Oh yeah,

we lynched scum

which Soc

guaranteed

. You're rolefishing and you also seem mucho disappointed to lose a mislynch candidate which might've gotten your neck spared today, huh?

*head asplodes*
This time you're the one twisting my words upside down. First of all, you can't just burden us for Soc's proficiency (is that the right wording? IDK), and second of all, neither of the things you said there were my actual motivations.

More coherent thoughts on other stuff I guess when the RAGE AT PACMAN over the past few pages fades. That might be after a sweet Pacman

mis

lynch.

Fixed for you

More tunneling from Plum. lol.

[pacman281292]

Also, Plum, I don't think everyone is insinuating that Soc is anti-town, that's a huge stretch imo.

Maaaybe, but the fact that I'm seeing it at all in this case is a major WTH, so. I said 'all the people who are', and there have been more than one, as I recall, so.

I'll respond to Pac soon, but I remain

mostly

unconvinced that he's not very scummy and a majorly good lynch today. Also pacman, using the term tunnelling, with its negative connotations, when the tunnelling is justified. Your response to my rolefishing accusation is horribly inadequate and yes, I

can

just burden you for Soc's proficiency because it's not proficiency but a very good indication that he's Town in the know,

which you acknowledge, basically/reluctantly, in your claim post

.

You are categorically tunneling me. You haven't attacked anyone besides me during this whole day. Just trying to rebuff it will be of no use for you. Your tunneling is not justified.
Explain why my response to your rolefish accusation is inadequate.
You can't burden me for Soc's proficiency. It's a logical fallacy, and while Soc has proven being a good reference point, blindly following him is still a BAD idea. I think he's town, but he can be wrong.

i'll paraphrase:
plum: "pacman, poisoning the well on soc, our most prolific protown poster is scummy"
pacman's next post: "i'm a townie. if soc isn't protown and is scum we lost!"

furcolow's assessment: pacman doesn't read
opinion on a lynch target: need to find a different one, though I don't KNOW that. Just my gut.

Plum's assessment: Pacman is scrambling because he's done scummy stuff and feels trapped between what a pro-Town approach should look like and what his previous approach was - hence the quick reversals/
Opinion on a lynch target: I like this one. You've planted seeds of doubt, Furc, but.

lulz.
You still misread me. I've changed my mind because I've discovered my asessments wrong. Just keeping up with an obviously wrong asessment is something totally stupid, isn't it?
You've lost all your town points with these latest attacks. Now my read on you is null.

Gotta reread Locke, but I still don't find him particularly scummy. Mostly lurker, but nothing yet.

[pacman281292]

Also, pacman, why are you not voting?

I'm not done with my rereads. I should be catching up with this game tonight.

[pacman281292]

ISO'd Locke, found very little stuff.
Hmm...
Note: For all my ISO's, I post facts as normal letters, and I post analysis as

italics.

ISO 0-1: RVS, then V/LA.
ISO2: Votes Beester because of posting for the sake of posting.

Indeed, hypocritical, as he had posted nothing in the game. Much better would have been at least trying to read the f***in' game.

ISO3: Ani is ani. Furc is townspammer.
ISO4: Tries to rebuff an accusation of fence-sitting, then launchs a real case on Beefster.

Locke wasn't fence-sitting; he was plain lurking. The case seems sensical, at least in comparision to some bullshit cases that have appeared from time to time.

ISO5: Again on V/LA.
ISO6: Posts a list of scummy people, with reasonings.

The list seems to make some sense (OH WAIT I AM AT THAT LIST LOL), but his case on Beef/M=W is starting to look awfully like tunneling. Humm...

ISO7: Votes M=W, attacks me for "going for the OBV wagon".
ISO8-9: Plum is town, attacks iecerint for criticizing the M=W wagon.

This post does actually look odd. That attack on Iecerint seems like overreacting to the fact his wagon decision is being attacked.
wut.

ISO10: Busy.
ISO11: Suddenly hops on the vezo wagon, citing some reasons vaguely based on meta. Wary on a massclaim

I'm not sure on whether or not I can consider this case a legit case.

ISO12: Back to M=W, adresses massclaim issue again, then refers to glow-smoke stuff.

I'd like you did elaborate in your pinion about massclaim as stated in this post. Not sure on the glow stuff; I think that it would be possible that the "mystery players" are just players that don't account for the game, and that they are some sort of "refferees" which might wind up meeing us up.

ISO13: More talk about glow/smoke, then asks what could be gained from a Locke lynch.
ISO14: Asks for reasons for the wagon on him.
The answer to the ISO13 question (Furc's reply, not Locke's) was very very shitty. I think that, while Locke would be guilty of tunneling M=W in a way that makes my head asplode, the case on him is weak, altough his dodginess while at L-1 doesn't help him much. My read on Locke is still null, with a very slight scum lean (very little content, and his tunneling on M=W).

And now I need yet another reread. The twist of action is starting to make me put my eyes on Furc (YEAH again, his latest posts have been no good), and slightly on Plum (she seems to be assuming I'm confirmed scum on every post of hers, and she is starting to lack on contribution, despite calling for town seriousness on D1/D2). I seem to be also overlooking CKD's posts way too much.

[pacman281292]

@Furc: Outguessing the mod = BAD IDEA. While it's important to find out the dynamic's meaning, I think we can't just follow them blindly if we aren't actually sure.

Here's a theory: our two ?????s can indicate their approval or disapproval of any post with light or smoke. There is no set system to it, they just tell Vi which post they want the relevant effect to refer to and it happens in the next votecount. They may be doing this together, or they may be independent, with one on the side of the Righteous and one for the Demons. I don't see why it couldn't be the latter, which is why I took issue with Friend's assumption. It's possible that this may even be some kind of boost system, who knows.

I agree.

If there is one scum and one town and they both send the same signals the signals are meaningless.

unvote
Vote LL

L-1 again.

I disagree. Even if they are on different sides, we can "scumhunt" them out. Hard, but not impossible IMO.

[pacman281292]

*facepalm*

[pacman281292]

Site fail FTW.
Why would we need so much a massclaim? I now understand Soc's manoeuverings, but it's still possible he might be "wrong for the right reasons" in some sort of the word.
Me confused.

[pacman281292]

Let's stop the hatred. We need to come together as a town around me, there really isn't much of another option.
Who is with me?

Around you? I beg to differ.

I think it's likely that we're in LyLo. Don't make anything stupid, please.

[pacman281292]

It's possible.
17/6 isn't an impossible scenario. It's most likely it would be 17/5, but IMO we should consider the worst case scenario.

[pacman281292]

Or even 4 scum.

Oh yeah. You're right. Dumb me.
If it's 4 scum, then we still do have a healthy buffer. I'm still inclined to believe it's 5 scum, but I think we have concluded it isn't LyLo yet,. else the game would be severely scum-biased.

Furc trying to get town to rally around him is pinging my radar as a scum move. I dislike his "Whatever," hammer, and his posts after "I thought you were scum or a town PR, but didn't know alignment, so I hammered."

I do agree with this part of your post. Now that vezo is likely town, I think it's again

possible

that Furc is scum. Indeed, his play is quickly deteriorating again.

FoS: Furcolow.

More later I think. I'm overloaded with homework.

[pacman281292]

I'm still busy with homework. It's possible I won't get to post tomorrow, so expect some content saturday.

@Furc: That post is stupid. Acting like a VI isn't going to help us town.

[pacman281292]

I'm still busy with homework. It's possible I won't get to post tomorrow, so expect some content saturday.

@Furc: That post is stupid. Acting like a VI isn't going to help us town.

you are by no means "us town" to me yet

mmm... LOL?

Why would you want to wagon an active town poster who could be held accountable? We need to wagon someone who is lurking.

I cut the self-meta bullshit.

I'm not metaing you, I already stated my feelings about meta.

Why should we be wagonning a lurker? Scum target easy lynches, no?

Friend, shut the fuck up with your defense of Furc and do some fucking scumhunting. Seriously.

I partly disagree on that Friend can't defend Furc. However, he needs to avoid posting "FURC IS TOWN FURC IS TOWN" in every of his posts. More content would be appreciated.
Otherwise, I do agree with your post. Furc needs to stop using meta in order to cover his mess, and to try to make some sensical posts.

@Judge

in response to #1273

smoke/light: that was sarcasm, learn to read
vezokpiraka being town/scum: that shows my indecisiveness and lack of a list of scum, indicating town
on VI/vs good player argument: If you note in the post you're saying "contradicts" I said *I* can pick up on the differences. Obviously, you can't, or you're trying blindly to mislynch as scum. Which is it?

Also, Mothrax was voting me the entire day. He was not voting you the entire day. I try my best not to bus people, and if they're not idiots, which Mothrax isn't, I wouldn't ever have a problem. I've had to bus one person in 7 months, and that was millar13, who is a complete.... well. He's dyslexic, so I feel bad for him, but he has comprehension problems which extend beyond mafia. Off tangent, you are likely town, and you need to actually read up on me as scum.

If you think I am scum based on my meta you should view me as lurking and being unhelpful with one liners
that is my scum meta
will i do that next time I am scum? admittedly, probably not, so this is all null meta, but I am trying to be honest with you and you are beating your head against a brick wall with this.

Why would you want to wagon an active town poster who could be held accountable? We need to wagon someone who is lurking.

First didn't look like a sarcasm. However, I think it's OK that you explained.
The mothrax thing is just WIFOM IMO.
Again, to hell with meta. Also, as a matter of fact, many of your posts (mostly D1) were one-liners, very painful to read if you ask me.
And, finally, we can let the mod manage lurkers. Active lurking is scummy, but doesn't mean fact instantly.

Bleh, not done with reread. I'm dead tired right now.

[pacman281292]

HEY HEY HEY FURC
GUESS WHAT
ZWET IS DEAD
LOLOLOLLOLOL

[pacman281292]

EBWOP: Also, you please stop WIFOMing us to death.

[pacman281292]

@Furc: I remember you asking me to stop acting like an idiot early D3. Now, I'll ask you the same.
Not refering to the last post, but rather to your D4 so far. your posting has been of a terribly poor quality.
@Friend: Please post some content besides "furc is town because of meta".
I was going to ask for a Plum prod, but just remembered she was V/LA. She seriously needs to put some content already...

[pacman281292]

People keep acting like I'm not posting content. I don't know where you're getting that.

Because of reading your ISO.

[pacman281292]

Friend, you're still ignoring my questions.

Furcolow, if you're too fucking ignorant to realize the contradictions that I pointed out in your own posts with links, then that's tough. There is no elaboration why each specific contradiction is indicative of scum. If you'd read my posts, which I don't think you did, you'd have noted where I said (multiple times) I found it telling of scum when players make multiple contradictions of themselves. Not players who contradict themselves on X or Y issues. Just contradict themselves.

If you had actually read MY posts, you would understand that I disagree there are contradictions there whatsoever. Also consider my recent post has gained light and yours smoke

That's two light posts indicating Vezokpiraka is scum. He is generally unhelpful and scummy regardless, so I'm not sure I'm convinced and want to vote him simply based upon that.


M=W or Vezokpiraka are the lynch for today.

I remember you asking people to care slightly less for light/smoke, then you just start using it like crazy to demend yourself.
I still think we shouldn't blindly follow light/smoke. While it might be a guide, I don't think light/smoke clears you and pins vezo as scum anyways.
I'm not so sure on vezo being scum (mostly because of what Soc said about him...), and I need to reread M=W. Those are my thoughts on these guys.
I would also like to hear some serious posting from Chrono (unless I incredibly overlooked it, he hasn't posted much yet).

[pacman281292]

@Everyone, save for Friend and Furc

: What are your thoughts on the case I have presented against Furcolow, citing his multiple contradictions? How do you feel the meta that Friend has found factors in? I want to hear responses to this other than Friend citing meta and Furc digging his heels in for defense and throwing any other ideas of scumhunting to the wind.

I get what you say, but I'm leaning for a Furc-VI.
I don't care so much about meta; I rarely use it, and when someone uses it to defend himself, it's horrendously WIFOMy.

[pacman281292]

@AGar: I agree, as should be obvious by my vote.
pacman, are you saying you think furc not scummy for doing all that stuff

just because

he's a VI? VI's can be scum to you know.
You know friend, you still haven't answered my question from a while ago, "Why are you calling me out on IIoA on my mothrax case now, when you completely ignored it for so long?

MOD: V/LA on Tuesday until further notice.

Also, note sig.[/offtopic]

The fact he's a VI totally confuses me, and makes me hesitate from my own read. *headdesk*

[pacman281292]

World-seems-darker-around probably has actual in-game ramifications. Similar to mothrax flipping 'DARKENED Shadow Demon' on the amended flip.

Go back to Soctrates' post with the charts, the one he got light for. ANALYZE THIS IN THE THREAD WHILE I'M AWAY IF AT ALL POSSIBLE. I can't be here for religious holiday reasons, but that's what I'd invest my time in if I could over the next few days.

Vote: Me=Weird

I need to reread, but of top three wagons I prefer this slightly over Iecerint I think and a heck of a whole lot over Furcolow.

No. Wraith did have the world "become darker" around, and he flipped as a righteous. No darkening.
Not done with reread. Dead tired right now. Catching up tomorrow.

[pacman281292]

Seems like light/smoke is just a MASSIVE post restriction of the non-players of this game.
Effectively, its like only being able to quote a post, but not actually say anything about it.
There are 2 non-names in the game, so that would be one for light, one for smoke.

They are PROBABLY just quoting what they FEEL is correct, because alignment CONFIRMING would be silly, as THAT would be a SANE COP THAT IS UNNKABLE.




ALSO I WISH PACMAN WOULD VOTE FOR SOMEONE.

Interesting theory.
And I'm not done with reread, but when I am (that should be tonight), I should come up with a vote.

[pacman281292]

that theory is old
hes just regurgitating it

*rereads*
Yeah you're right. However, the way he worded it was better.

[pacman281292]

Well, I reread the last pages (the D4 to be more concise) and found some interesting stuff (CAUTION: WALL POST ALERT):

lol at the hypocrisy in furcs 1248 post.

Friend:
You voted me for voting furc, b/c we disagree about whether he's VI-scum or VI-town. Y/N?
You said the way I've been presenting myself about thinking he's VI-scum is scummy. Y/N?
I asked why the way I've been presenting it is scummy. Y/N?
Instead of answering, you said my case on mothrax was scummy too, for the following reasons:
I basically paid no attention to him for a while(I was trying to get my first suspect lynched).
I focused on VI-type "easy targets" instead(It's called voting my top suspects, and they were, regardless of how much of an "easy target" they were).
I made a IIoA case on him later(How would we lynch if everybody joined wagons quicker? And how is it IIoA? If it was, why did you ignore up until now? You got plenty of posts in after my case and before the lynch). Y/N? Most importantly, why did you deflect my question?

FoS: Friend

Many of these questions are actually loaded questions, or rhetorical questions. While Friend's dodginess and "furc is town by meta blah blah blah" is unhelpful for the town as well as confusing, this post is very poor.

FoS: M=W.

Well, I guess that means vezo's more likely town, but not definitely.

Vote: Furcolow

I've already stated some reasons, but he's now used flavor stuff that we don't know about as a case, hammered LL without a claim when he viewed LL as either scum or a

Power role.

Imagine if he'd been right about the PR. We'd be down 2 PR's, only having a idea about one target of one of them. Bad.

I'm thinking there's either 3 or 4 scum left, or 3 and a SK/other 3d party role.

Stuff like this is scummy. Hammering without a claim is well within Furc's meta as town, and just because he's not too bright doesn't make him scum. The argument you're presenting is the same one that's been gone over time and time again, but he's VI-town. That's just the way it is.

The rest of your questions are not worthy of a proper answer. How is it IIoA? Seriously?

Well, I remember a newbie game where I replaced for a girl who had been making comically stupid posts, and would get herself ejected for PMing a town player (the post was reported, but it wasn't deemed dangerous enough to warrant modkills/game abandonment). The IC would disregard her scummy play as VI playing. I replaced her, and won as scum, not without help from another VI town player who would self-vote in LyLo due to being annoyed at another player.
The lesson we learnt (as he posted post-game) was "Stupid players can be scum too". Just sayin'.
Now back to topic, M=W's quoted post is null for me.
I think you (Friend) said once (post 1296) that "Furc isn't enough smart to change his own meta". Which is also stupid reasoning itself; while Furc seems to care "a lot" for his meta, I don't do at all. Furthermore, such an easy "town meta" like the one Furc is putting out can be easily used to play low as scum.

Relevant because Soc was all CKD IS OBVSCUM and I was like WELL I DUN THINK SO HERE IS WHY and he was like OK THAT MAKES SENSE ACTUALLY THX.

But since then CKD has been sorta getting crap past the radar.

It could be that I am mourning Soc.

Humm... might you point out that post please?

Friend stop it.
Seriously. Furc is not doing anything.
He is just self metaing ,doing nothing and other stuff.

How do you know furc didn't try to appear town as scum?

Humm... you've not done much either...
I would like if you (or your replacement, in case you get replaced - BTW,

@MOD: Please prod vezokpiraka

-) posted some content there. You've been pretty much coasting through for a long time.

AGar, really? I'm not scumhunting? I insisted on mothrax-scum for a long damn time and I've been saying M=W is scum for a while now too.

Anyways, check this out: Furc town meta

HE IS ACTING EXACTLY THE SAME. EXACTLY THE MOTHERFREAKING SAME.

HE IS NOT SMART ENOUGH TO DELIBERATELY CHANGE HIS META.

THEREFORE, HE IS FUCKING TOWN. THERE SHOULD BE NO MORE CASES ON FURC.

It's ONE FUCKING GAME.

And he's not as fucking stupid as you think he is, trust me.

Your logic fucking sucks.

And today, you have only poached an easy wagon on M=W based on what - Beefster's slot - and defended Furc.

Making a case based on the former slot is by no means invalid. Indeed, it's harder to find scum in slots whose owner has changed during time. That pretty much sucks if you ask me .

Glancing through your iso, your targets (vez, Furc, me) do little to inspire confidence with regard to your scumhunting motives. Also, your predecessor was naughty.

I think the best way to convince me that you are town would involve making a case on someone or a town/meh/scum tier post or something. It looks like you're going after easy suspects. Your targets also mirror SP's, and I think he may be scum based on meta in large games like this as I just stated.

I am waiting to see whether Plum agrees with me about SP before I go too far down that rabbit hole.

I admit that Friend is a little shifty but I don't think he's scum with you (which is why a MW=>Friend case isn't going to convince me; it's just showing me that you're probably not scum with him).

I pretty much agree with this post (except for the part when you ask to wait for Plum).
The only valid point I could find at Furc's 1302 would be "YOU ARE TUNNELING" (directed at AGar). He's right; I'd loke to hear whether or not you do have any other reads aside Furc.
The rest of the defense is poor.
Another thing directed at Furc: while I've already accostumed my mind to read "judge" as "AGar", I think that in case a replacement appears, his head will explode while trying to find who the hell is judge. It would be appreciated if you called him as AGar (or if you made it clear before calling him judge, but this one would be spammier).

vote Iecerint

....I got a feeling that scum lie here.

FoS: curiouskarmadog.

Yeah, yet another FoS. But this one is for the possible interaction to Iecerint's 1272 (quoted just above). This vote looks like OMGUS, worsened by the fact his reasons are just "I got a feeling that scum lie here".
Another thing (not related to this, but to a later post by AGar): what does ad hom mean? I'm not used to that term, sorry.
This is the most interesting stuff I found in pages 50-53. Pages 54-57 later (tired now).

[pacman281292]

When Iecerint mentioned that you might be scum upon a Soc result.
Followed by you voting him with no reason at all.
That's it.

[pacman281292]

EBWOP: I think it was clear on my post (as I adressed Iece's post where he said that, then your out-of-the-blue vote).

[pacman281292]

EBWOP2: I adressed the wrong post there. The post where Iecerint points out what I mentioned was the third from the top in my 1408.

[pacman281292]

@Iec: Well, what I asked was where Soc said CKD was obvscum... I've got to read that post in-depth later
/quickpost no time for more

[pacman281292]

I completely disagree with the meta argument. I think meta is really important in a game because a scumtell for one person may be a towntell for another. Wow, Vezok didn't even try to play really, if you're not going to play then don't bother joining a game, speaking of meta that was an extremely botched attempt by Vezok - I would love to know what aspect of play he was metaing.

Sociopath, why did you vote for Iecrint in post 1317? I don't see very much of an explanation anywhere.

Ice post 1318, that was the worst play I have ever done, don't hold me to it, I had a lot of things going on at the time and only didn't replace out because UK would have been angry at me.

The ad homs are ridiculous, btw. ENOUGH.

Chronopie, why are you following the lights and doing what they say? If they are players just like us, then they aren't infallible, so what you're doing is exactly the same as sheeping. Do we even know what they glows and smokes mean yet?

Before anybody asks, I don't know what the special circumstances are that may make me scum. I have thought of something but I don't want to put Socrates at risk if I am correct.

Pacman, why don't you want to wait for Plum? It's pretty scummy not to want to hear the opinions of another player.

I can answer for Socio and myself:
That's just the way Socio acts. It's annoying, and A LOT, but he doesn't seem to change it.
And, waiting for Plum's opinion is OK, but what isn't OK is to make your decision based on what only one player thinks. It would be good to hear something from her, yeah.
Finishing reread later.

[pacman281292]

-A small glow surrounds Chronopie as of post 1419...

-The smell of smoke surrounds Chronopie as of post 1419...

lol

Yeah, lol.
However, it makes me think that it might be what Socio said (in his way of wording, which might be more accurate (?)).

...

Also, pacman, in case you weren't sure, that second post of my mine you just quoted is about MW -- not Furc. Your "the only valid Furc" thing makes me confused.

Unrelated note: my glow indicates that at least one !!!!!! says that he has non-Cop investigation abilities.

Yes I acknowledge that (how the fuck would Furc attack himself anyway?). The part where I speak to Furc is related to a wallpost from him, which I decided not to quote.


Back to reread funtime!

i will answer them.
I am town because I am actually responding to your stupidity, Judge. You are tunneling worse than I've ever seen anyone tunnel with 0 case and 0 real contradictions. Address any of those contradictions, like I have already challenged, not with linked vague posts but ACTUAL WORDS I CAN REFUTE, and I will make you see what I had going through my mind when I posted that in the first place. By tunneling me, I feel like you are likely to be scum who has been distancing and is trying to negate my inherently good scumhunting by making me constantly defend myself.

You have probably seen that Friend and I were just victorious in lylo, and you want us gone from this game.

Those questions aren't directed to you. And furthermore, what you do say here is like, "I'm town because I'm town, and you're tunneling me because your case sucks". Your first statement is WIFOM, and the other stuff is IMO a big lie (while AGar has been tunneling, and that is no good, his cases have made sense (I've disregarded them a bit because I see you as a VI, and because of the tunneling stuff), and they have been better than your "awesome scumhunting".
Sincerely, I've not seen you even trying to make a serious case.

CKD, why do you think I'm scum?

if you had to guess why...what would you say?

Don't dodge questions. Either I'm blind, or you have yet to put an actual case on Iec.

would anyone like to take the effort and going back and putting all the glow and smoke posts together in one post...I dont have the time, but am curious if there is a pattern.

If I do have time I'll try to give it a shot (not tomorrow, but maybe sunday). However I won't guarantee anything.

@AGar: I agree, as should be obvious by my vote.
pacman, are you saying you think furc not scummy for doing all that stuff

just because

he's a VI? VI's can be scum to you know.
You know friend, you still haven't answered my question from a while ago, "Why are you calling me out on IIoA on my mothrax case now, when you completely ignored it for so long?

MOD: V/LA on Tuesday until further notice.

Also, note sig.[/offtopic]

This post does look fishy. While it might come with good intentions, it might be an attempt to discretely push for a Furc lynch.
Humm... me confused.

Soc didn't specify. However, he said that vezo was confirmed town except for one minor possibility. Since Soc flipped tracker, a parsimonious explanation is that he negative-tracked vez and the minor possibility is that vez is a goon who didn't send in the NK.

Vez also said something with Soc that might have implied something else was going on. So there may be another thing to it, too.

This is what I think might have happened.
Also, I think vezo claimed town with a minor powerrole, acquired. This made Soc unvote.

Hi Haylen!

M=W, your theory is wrong. There is a way to tell whether furc is scum - I've read his scum meta and he's provided at least one example of it. He's very, very readable, and in this game, he's town.

Anyways, saying stupid things like "I'm starting to think you're scum, Friend" based on NOTHING except me saying furc is town is useless and scummy. You need the noose.

Nope.
First, again, YOU CAN'T RELY SOLELY ON META. AND I THINK MORESO FOR VIs LIKE FURC.
And second, the useless part of you calling furc "obvtown obvtown" is that you don't even argument it beyond "meta". And furthermore, that you haven't posted about anything contentful lately.
@Haylen: It would be appreciated if you gave us a better catch-up. Many things have happened. That post is lacking IMO.

[pacman281292]

smoke because "vezok/haylen" is not a good lynch, imo
i will do some scumhunting, just for you pacman
ill make a list in a moment

It's a good idea.

[pacman281292]

Guys.

I just got something important.

I received a message, presumably from either a player or one of the "holy ones." Here's what it contained:

bothhaveglow&smoke

Oh well.

otherisscum

This pretty much proves Locke's theory.
However, I think it's possible that it might actually be the scum talking, and trying to confuse us. Humm...

vezlie-d2ability

Interesting.

idme/wexplain-GGSCHB

???

batery->rolepoints

That means we need to lynch quickly?

Does anybody know what the GGSCHB means? We need to find out who these players are, because one of them is scum.

This is big.

Yeah, it's big. However, as I say there, it might be the scum talking trying to mess with us.
I think this says vezo lied anyways.
My other theory (and this one is pretty much of a longshot) might be that that post was made up. However, it's pretty unlikely.
Hummmm...

oh and Pac, I am getting scum vibes off Iece, because of his buddying up to me...i have done nothing this game to bode gettting that kind of trust....

I haven't seen Iecerint buddying with you.
I can see Friend horribly buddying with Furc (and I think everyone does). However, that PM confuzzles me even more.
I don't like this post.

[pacman281292]

Pac, i just want to make sure i am reading this correctly, this entire game, you have not seen Iecerint buddy up with me once?....not one comment that could look like someone budddying up to another...nothing?

Show me where. Please?
And, no, I won't vote you (as it would be a wasted vote). I'm tempted to vote Haylen/vezo in order to test the validity of the PM Friend "received". But I'm also tempted to follow my gut, which seems to tell me M=W is scum.
Oh well. I'll follow my gut. Testing the game mechanics is left for tomorrow. Also, I think that the holy ones might be WIFOMing us with that PM.

Vote: Me=Weird.

[pacman281292]

Guys.

I just got something important.

I received a message, presumably from either a player or one of the "holy ones." Here's what it contained:

bothhaveglow&smoke

otherisscum

vezlie-d2ability

idme/wexplain-GGSCHB

batery->rolepoints

Does anybody know what the GGSCHB means? We need to find out who these players are, because one of them is scum.

This is big.

Vote: Vezok

"vezlie-d2ability" seems to mean 'Vezok lied about his Day 2 ability.

As to the !!!!!!!! players, I have a hunch that Vi edited the signup thread. Perfectly legitimate, but I'm praying that Google has some of it cached.
"batery->rolepoints" = points to give their side roles/kill abilities for mafia (?)

I think

. No, shoot, it doesn't. On the off chance Vi secretly punished the people who didn't post avatars of other players while signing up with a sort of reciprocal removal-of-identity, Ellibereth is a 10-letter option (as is LynchMePls, come to think of it - but he wanted to play as a hydra, so I'd guess Elli over him if I had to). But then again, the slots missing

are

5 and 9, so. AND sottyrulez was /in, officially between Ani/Chrono and SocioPath on the signup thread, so. Definitely him, scratch Elli speculation. That's 10 letters. Number 5 was a pre/-in. Friend is a bunch of steps ahead of me. I've got no clue how we're going to find the other guy, but we can pray that sottyrulez happens to be our guy and not their guy (dunno what happens if we manage to reveal the Mafia power-smoke-glow guy.

So - HAYLEN please explain what I asked of Vezok - under what specific circumstance would it be possible for you/Vezok to be scum as per Soc's post

Vezok is confirmed town, everyone unvote. (There is actually exactly one scenario where Vezo is scum, but it is incredibly unlikely.)

vote: Locke Lamora

for now.

Massclaim is officially useless.

K. However, I think it would be a good idea if you put your thoughts on the other people.

[pacman281292]

@ Iecerint - Character limit in the message? That was my first assumption.

Pacman - I'm still trying to finish reading up &c. If you have something specific you want me to answer to, please quote it. Otherwise I'll be catching up/posting other stuff as quickly as I may. Obviously the shiny new stuff caught my attention pretty well, but rest assured.

OK. Take your time I guess, but don't forget we're pretty short on it.
(and also, vezo is no lnger it's now Haylen)

[pacman281292]

Interesting going-ons. Now, I want to hear from furc first, but

if we can lynch vezo(haylen now) that would be fine

by me. In any case, a furc lynch isn't going to happen.

Unvote

Vote Me=Weird

Why are you trying to prevent someone with a track from using their ability?

Nice catch there...

I'm willing to let haylen use her one-shot track for the good of the town. Vez "lying" about his N2 ability doesn't even make sense.

vez "lying" about his n2 ability is possible IMO.
However, I do agree on that we should let Haylen use her track ability.
The question is: on who? Or we do let her choose at will?
Also GUYS WE'RE NO LONGER IN A HURRY, UNLESS THE HOLY ONES ARE SCREWING WITH US. WE DO NOW HAVE PLENTY OF TIME.
While it looks like the M=W lynch is a given, we should try to use this chance the holy ones gave us.
@AGar: We do have 93% battery because Vi got delayed with the votecounts.

Unvote

until we do decide on these topics (i.e. whether we do give Haylen a target or if we do let her choose).
PEDIT: Thanks for hurrying the lynch needlessly Furc.
The unvote obviously applies no longer.

[pacman281292]

EBWOP: Still awaiting on your scumhunting, Furc.
Also, why the f*** do Plum and Friend get town points?

[pacman281292]

Yes, it's strange. However, it could have actually been of some use for us.
And, on second thought, it would have been a bad idea to tell Haylen who to track. she needs to save that decision for herself, then post the results and "act accordingly".
@Furc: Answering questions on next post. I seem to have overlooked that.

[pacman281292]

What are people's thoughts on Plum and Friend votehopping around?

Plum votehopping? I don't think so.
However, I think she needs to hurry on her catch-up. Her posting hasn't been the most helpful, not even on late D3 where all that she did was tunneling on me.
I'm not sure on what to think about Friend's hopping, but I do feel a slight scum vibe from him, mostly due to his unhelpful buddying to you and almost active lurking.
Now more scumhunting, and answer my question. NAO.

[pacman281292]

My intention was to wait for the replacements and the people yet to speak (namely you, Plum and Furc, and possibly Chronopie). I thought Furc hammered, but it seems not.
I want to wait for the aforementioned to post before re-voting. That's my intention.

[pacman281292]

Her posting hasn't been the most helpful, not even on late D3 where all that she did was tunneling on me.

HOW IS THAT NOT HELPFUL?

She hasn't posted content since her ISO38. I haven't seen her actually thinking anyone is scum with reasons since when she attacked me D3.

[pacman281292]

are you saying we should lynch you, or that plum sucks?
i disagree with your entire post

wut?
I say that Plum needs to contribute more. That's it.
how the hell do you interprete it like I wanting to get myself lynched?
I'm waiting for your input as well, Furc...

[pacman281292]

shut up, seriously
you dont fucking scumhunt
i have done a lot more than you, even compiling posts with smoke and light
you get off your fucking ass and quit being a hypocrite or i swear to god i will get you lynched

WHAT
*explodes hilariously*
Not only you don't contribute, but claim having contributed. Yeah, you gathered some of the light/smoke posts. *applause*. So what? I asked you to reread the latest posts, and try to post your reads on everyone around. If I didn't, I'm officially asking you to do so.
And me not scumhunting? Read posts 1408 and 1435, then read your own posts. While I'm not the king of scumhunting, you've been lacking there.
And now, stop this stupid ad hom war.

furthermore, pacman, am I not on the M=W wagon? Did I not just try to get him to say something through faking a hammer? Don't you think him not saying "Bah, I hope you all win, town!" is pretty damning in and of itself?

I jumped off to give the replacees and the inactives time to post, if that's what you meant.
Also, he not posting doesn't mean anything. lol.
*facepalm*

[pacman281292]

pretty sure based upon the recent light post that pacman is scum. He was voting with mothrax there, who was scum. He also hopped on before the 3rd/4th vote which is a good way to stay under the radar. His recent pestering of me to scumhunt when he is providing no real scumhunting himself is sheer hypocrisy.

I'll do some "scumhunting", pacman, through actually listening to the light for once, and I'm voting you for voting with mothrax.
Even if you're town, you're voting with scum there, and voting me in that votecount.

unvote;
vote: pacman

Oh... what the heck?
First: This is a logic fail. How do you conclude that I'm scum because one of the holy guys enlighted Vi's VC.
(which wasn't even true, apparently. ?).
Furthermore, read my #1526, where I state what I do think about this stupidity.
Second: This statement doesn't even make sense. Blindly following a light that "says I'm scum" (by a way I don't even understand, so please explain how do you arrive to this conclusion) is not scumhunting. Later you say that even if I'm town I voted with scum and therefore should get lynched.
WTF.

Reading on the Haylen stuff later. Catching up with other game + not much more time.

[pacman281292]

@MOD: I'm V/LA until Friday. Way too busy with RL stuff.

[pacman281292]

way too busy to be actively defending yourself against a wagon?
wagon go i. m. o.

lol. you are telling me that you read my 1556 and NOT my 1555?

smell of smoke = botched attempted scumhunting... i hate seeing that.

unvote

i guess the light from that post might have been from something else

perhaps the bad !!!!!!!!! put that there, though, to confuse me.
I hate being in WIFOM land.

I don't want you to scumhunt by trying to find out what do the "holy ones" try to say.
The current "valid theory", said by the holy ones themselves, is that there is at least one scum player among them.
He might be messing with our minds. So, it wouldn't be a good idea to follow what they say blindly. Else we would be WIFOM'd to death, as happened to you right now.
I want you to scumhunt by trying to read some posts and find allegiances from them.

[pacman281292]

Back.
Rereading.
Posting tomorrow.

[pacman281292]

Another catch up post. Another wallpost warning. *yawn* you know how this works.

smell of smoke = botched attempted scumhunting... i hate seeing that.

unvote

i guess the light from that post might have been from something else

perhaps the bad !!!!!!!!! put that there, though, to confuse me.
I hate being in WIFOM land.

Our main theory (from Friend's PM) is that at least one of the holy guys is actually scum.
So, basing your decisions only on the damned lights/smokes will inevitably "put you in WIFOM land".
I repeated this, but it should be noted.

^ So, that looks like the guy in charge of DARK is upset that I called the LIGHT guy town and that I was wrong that both had both OR that both had different gradations.

ALSO -- there was an error in the relevant post -- the *DARK* guy lampshaded the ancient VC rather than the LIGHT guy subject to Vi's correction.

could you explain that in language that an old man can understand?

Who is town? speak up. We don't have a seperate thread to communicate like they do. We need to communicate here. Who's with me?

That's stupid. Scumpoints.

Pointless, but not scumpoints, actually. We need to advance, and I think that that's what he meant.
However, posting "townlist" won't be of so much use, actually.

instead of spouting off town reads...why not just give scum reads...why paint a kill target for scum? Top two scum reads from everyone would not only make everyone declare a stance and "narrow down the lynch pool", but will not expose those who the town believes to be the most town....

it is a scum move that only benefits scum.

easy
M=W(because of beefster), vezokpiraka (Haylen now)
both are good wagons, but we need to pick one
M=W himself hasn't been bad, but I really felt beefster was scum on D1, and I feel like we let that slot off the hook. I am glad it resulted in us countering mothrax's wagon on me with one on him and being successful on d2, but we could have done better if we would have kept pressure.

pacman + CKD (because of sebguer) I took as VI primarily, though that can be null, so I wasn't really against their dying. Sociopath/Chronopie would be a good lynch because I feel like they are just slipping by inactively.

Town Id put in Agar, Myself, Plum, Iecerint, and would be against any of these lynches. Agar less so, because he has been busting my balls.

ebwopreview: @ckd: I sort of agree with you here. I figured sebguer was scum, but your play has been really helping the slot in general which is why I've

Oh well. My reads then?
Town: AGar, Iecerint, me (OBV). I like AGar's posting (plus a little of gut feel), Iecerint is mostly gut read.
Null: Chronopie/ani (Both have lurked throughout the whole game), SocioPath (WTF), Plum (I can understand her being V/LA, but she hasn't posted content since a very long time ago), CKD (His posting has been confusing, there are some points that tell me he's town, but some posts make me feel him scummy), Furcolow (Again WTF?!).
Scummy: Friend (This is more like "leaning scum"; his active lurking is horrid, but the fact he was apparently PMd by the "Holy ones" makes me feel uneasy) M=W (I stated a post which I felt very scummy some time ago, plus he is also starting to lurk when the pressure on him got removed), Haylen/vezok (while Haylen's posting has been relatively good, vezo was very scummy. However, the claim makes me feel very uneasy of my read on Haylen. I will rather wait for tomorrow and see Haylen's results in case she does have any, then act accordingly).

Can we just lynch M=W please?

Oh what? So you have nothing more to say?
This is officially active lurking. QUIT IT.

Iecerint claims havng received an ability, then Friend just comes in asking for it. While in this case it wasn't actually so much important as his ability was already useless, this falls into rolefishing. Furthermore, still no actual posting.

FoS: Friend

Furc, I've been swamped by schoolwork. Sorry. I'll try not to let it get to me.

Anyways, yeah, M=W is still probscum, IMO.

Oh OK. However, your posting is still unhelpful, and some of your actions have been scummy.

I th

i

nk we should lynched M=W t

o

day, for the

r

easons that have already been stated. I am s

e

riously pissed that he didn't want me to use my track, it's not ofte

n

that I get to have any sort of ability in a gam

e

. I would also like to know why Iec was so in

t

erested in discu

ss

ing the post in which

I

got told I had my a

b

ility, I was also like to know how,

c

learly, Iecerint knows that the scum give abilities.

Happy FoS time!

FoS: Haylen.

This is totally unrelated to the "breadcrumb". Indeed, I think the breadcrumb might have been made in order to scare people from reading this post. Unrelated, but oh well.
The attack on Iecerint is extremely weak. He trying to discuss the post in which you got your ability? I don't think that happened. Iecerint knows scum gives ability? Where do you think Iece might have ever hinted this?
And you want to lynch M=W instantly. This is more ambiguous (as the discussion was starting to stagnate at that point(, but I think you might want to avoid the additional discussion we got and quicklynch.
This post is bad.

Major FoS: Furcolow

For Role-fishing.

Where did he rolefish?
I beg to differ.
Also don't quadruple-post one-liners. That's hard to read.

Furc attacks Haylen and CKD because the slots they have replaced in were scummy, and they aren't being helpful either. Point.
CKD's question is somewhat loaded. Furc voting Haylen after her "breadcrumb" isn't IMO related. If he feels Haylen is still scum after the crumb, I don't see how it might change anything.

Major FoS: Furcolow

For Role-fishing.

My vote is staying until you explain your encription. It is obviously a code, if I couldn't find the proper anagram.

You'll find that difficult because I'm NOT explaining until tomorrow.

Also, Furcolow, when I replace into a game I don't give a crap what other people think of the person I replaced my job is to play the game as I would play a game, not do what other people expect of me.

OK. Don't give a crap about the person you replaced. I won't contest that.
However, being voted on what the person you replaced did is still valid.

(in a different voice)hey everybody, who is CKD voting?.....

(in yet another voice) it looks like Iece...

(first voice)man, he seems persistant on that vote.

(second voice)yeah....we should join him to at least put pressure on Iece.

(another chick, possibly a sex operator), what about the M=W wagon?

(second voice) what about it?

(chick) shouldnt we put pressure there?

(first guy)...I say no...CKD has good gut instinct

(chick) but he hasnt really even put a case out there...what is his case, "dude, buddied with me for no reason"? that really isnt a case.

(first guy)...true, but I have seen CKD action, and if I know anything about him, he always kicks himself in his ass if he doesnt follow his gut..

(chick)...so you want us to follow you based on a gut vote..

(first guy)...it is CKD....dude is like a scumdar. come on everybody.

(everyone)...yeah!!!! ok lets vote him.


((no breadcrumbs were used or town was hurt in the making of this presentation))

I'm tempted to vote you after this post.
This post is unhelpful. Not only you decide not to try and put a case on Iecerint, but you also say that your vote was only on gut. Not only that, you decide to ignore any other wagon. Without ever thinking on it.

HoS: curiouskarmadog.

woah I didnt say anything, those are obvious other voices.


but those voices DID say that it is gut AND the fact that Iece did buddy with me for no reason...there was no reason to state that I was obviously town, what had I done at that point that was so town to trust me that much...nothing. also his general play is setting of scum vibes.


but what really is a vote anyway?....usually a gut vote...you see person X doing Y and you think it is scummy...

you have a problem with my "gut" vote?

Yes I do.
If you wanna make a case on Iece, do it and try to convince us of voting. Else stop putting flaff and admit you have no point there.

why would you vote her if you thought she was dropping a crumb?....

i just dont know if Furc is scum, or just a horrid player....i am constantly back and forth on it.

You are doing the exact same thing Haylen is. You have replaced into a slot with a lot of suspicion put on it. I will admit that you have helped the read on the slot, but if you continue making irrelevant two liner posts I'm afraid I will have to make a case for your lynch solely based upon the person who was playing the slot before you replaced into it which will be fairly valid.

"a lot of suspicion"? huh....didnt Sub post like 3 posts? my post was irrelevant...I explained my stance on you....what

you

havent done is answer the question in the post.

get off my balls, dude
your slot was scummy
i don't have to answer a question from someone i have a scum read on

wrong. Either you say why do you think answering the question would be pointless/the question is invalid/you have already answered that, or you do answer it. else, it's dodging questions.
Hayelen seems to be blatantly misreading Furc's posts. WTH?

Haylen, please explain in 2-3 points why M=W "needs to go".

I agree.

sorry, haylen, but scummy=/=scum
you, though not scummy, are scum

*head asplodes*.

Then, furc brings back soc's chart. If your point is saying "I'm town as of this", then I won't pay attention to this.

explain to me how that chart doesnt cast suspicion on you yet semi-clear me and i will answer your question

In reply to "explain why does the chart make you town".
This is blatant dodging. CKD's question is valid. Answer it.

@ CKD - i just said i was going v/la and that was a response to furcolow saying 'how convieniant'. Honestly, right now, I'm far to upset to answer any questions and I ask that that is respected. I'll be fine to answer tomorrow, hopefully.

He said the same about me going semi-V/LA. And I didn't ragepost.
That's a bad reaction if you do ask me.

then you would actually know for yourself. I'm not going to sit here and baby you. You can read, you can analyze charts, and if you're "such a better mafia player than me", like you're implying, you wouldn't fucking need me to hold your little hand.

First: Ad hom. Quit it, dammit.
Second: Answer the question. Your statement was blatantly dodging it.

Oh well. As always, Furc keeps acting like an ass, but his actions are actually pulling out reactions. While I dispute his way of playing this out, I'm starting to feel him somehow townish. The only thing that holds me from feeling him as actual town is his terriposting itself.
*head asplodes*
CKD is scummy. So is Haylen. M=W is lurking, and his scumminess hasn't diminished a bit.
Chronopie, STOP F***ING ACTIVE LURKING. NAO.
Socio is acting like an ass. He's totally unreadable. I would like to vote him in order to make him stop acting like such, but he's just way too confusing. I wouldn't like to play with him again.
So, I'll go back to my vote.

Vote: Me=Weird.

[pacman281292]

pacman, I've been really busy lately, and the posts I have made didn't need much original content. And would you mind refreshing your case on me?
AGar, which post are you talking about?

I'm refreshing this later. I've already stated why some of your posting is scummy (in my other two wallposts, but I don't remember well).

I agree my active lurking has been bad - school last week was way overwhelming. I'll do my best to stop though, I promise.

But M=W's response to that was consistent with the rest of his scummy play.

I disagree with your accusation of rolefishing towards me, pac. I think knowing what ability someone received is majorly important.

OK, it would be appreciated if you did so.
My point about your rolefishing is mostly that you just punched in out of the blue asking for knowing the role Iec got.

" Friend wrote:Can we just lynch M=W please?


Pacman wrote:
Oh what? So you have nothing more to say?
This is officially active lurking. QUIT IT."

Pacman wrote:
So, I'll go back to my vote. Vote: Me=Weird.

Pacman, you have both friend, M=W, and Haylen as your "scummy reads". I'll admit they're scummy, but WHY ARE THEY NOT TOWN? WHY ARE THEY SCUM, NOT SCUMMY?

AGar said "sitting on the fence", and your sheer terminology is sitting on a fence. Either call them scum or don't. It makes me feel like I was wrong to put you as a town read when you start contradicting yourself by criticizing friend pushing M=W, and then voting M=W yourself. That feels like you have ulterior motives as scum trying to push for an easy lynch on someone who was "scummy". While you mentioning vezokpiraka in that sense when referring to haylen, and always criticizing my play in the very back of your null reads (probably because your scumteam has tried to wagon me numerous times and failed because town has a majority.), makes this cemented in my mind even more that it is what you are doing when you are going for the easy calf in the back of the pack like a wolf sitting in wait.

It's funny that I can find you town through 30 medium sized posts, but when you try to mimic a huge town post I actually am starting to lean more towards you as being scum again.

unvote;
vote: pacman

???
Calling someone scummy is indeed similar to calling them scum. At least for me.
I don't see how stating someone is scummy means sitting on the fence. I criticized Friend, not for pushing M=W's lynch, but rather for pushing it without reason and not doing anything else. I'm gonna re-state my case on M=W later (tomorrow, no time now).
I don't understand what you say in the end of that paragraph.
When you talk about me talking about vezo, you meant that I mention vezo/Haylen as scummy, right? If so, see above, and stop misinterpretating my posts. Then you throw some loaded logic on it.
WTH.

[pacman281292]

hey light, is pacman being hypocritical?

Hey furc, might you please say why do you say I'm hyporitical?
Serious question. Please don't launch random attacks without even knowing what are you talking about.
Now back to the M=W thing. Hold on.

[pacman281292]

OK. Going back for my posts, I only found this:

lol at the hypocrisy in furcs 1248 post.

Friend:
You voted me for voting furc, b/c we disagree about whether he's VI-scum or VI-town. Y/N?
You said the way I've been presenting myself about thinking he's VI-scum is scummy. Y/N?
I asked why the way I've been presenting it is scummy. Y/N?
Instead of answering, you said my case on mothrax was scummy too, for the following reasons:
I basically paid no attention to him for a while(I was trying to get my first suspect lynched).
I focused on VI-type "easy targets" instead(It's called voting my top suspects, and they were, regardless of how much of an "easy target" they were).
I made a IIoA case on him later(How would we lynch if everybody joined wagons quicker? And how is it IIoA? If it was, why did you ignore up until now? You got plenty of posts in after my case and before the lynch). Y/N? Most importantly, why did you deflect my question?

FoS: Friend

Many of these questions are actually loaded questions, or rhetorical questions. While Friend's dodginess and "furc is town by meta blah blah blah" is unhelpful for the town as well as confusing, this post is very poor.

FoS: M=W.

This post was the one which struck out the most to me. Explanation already there.
However, in second thought, many of the posts I considered initially scummy weren't such, actually. However, his lurking isn't helping either.
Furthermore, upon reading Beefster the only things I could find were that he was active lurking (maybe overwhelmed by activity?), plus that he had tunneled Locke.
WTH.

Unvote.

Gah, my head is now confused. New vote coming up tonight.

[pacman281292]

Bad, bad case by M=W.

Pac, if that's the only thing scummy you can find about Beefster you're not looking hard enough.

Let's stop asking the light for stuff - one of them is scum guys.

I looked his ISO. He had only 9 posts. So, I don't think I missed anything.

Sorry, but no vote tonight. got to go right now, sorry.

[pacman281292]

But he's not scum with Haylen. Near 0% chance. Rite?

So...

How so?

What is the case on Iecerint?
Plum? your vote is unreasonable, as it is like "iecerint has no scumtells. vote iecerint. i'll switch"
I don't like that post.

For once, I agree.
That last post by Chronopie wasn't good. Voting M=W without thinking on why are we voting M=W, and still keep the active lurking.
WAKE UP, DAMMIT.

[pacman281292]

@Plum, CKD, and anyone voting Iecerint: Why do you think (aside from CKD's... er... gut is it?) that Iecerint is scum?
Just voting in without reason is useless, and annoying. did you know?
@Iecerint: I think you're now under pressure. So, I think that active lurking will worsen your situation. WAKE UP.
Post (and likely vote) tonight. No time now
/quickposting

[pacman281292]

yeah, just as useless as not voting, at least you know what my fucking stance is.

also, is my vote just gut pac?...read over my posts.

Huh? I read your post, and say "Iec is buddying with me" and "it's gut but my gut is so pwnsome it's 100% accurate".
If you have any other reasoning, point it out plz.

I'VE BEEN VOTING FOR AGES. AND POSTING CONSISTENTLY. LYNCH SP WITH ME. HE IS SCUM.

I'll help lynch M=W if it comes to it. It looks unavoidable at this point, since the Haylen wagon is gone and no one will lynch SP with me. But I'm not going to like it, because I don't think M=W is scum with Haylen.

This is all very old news btw. Just to be clear.

???
You're losing the town points you had.
You've been posting consistently, but lately your posts have been severely lacking.
You want to "lynch SP" because he's acting like an ass. That's old news, but as much as I hate saying it, SP is a bad lynch right now. Unless we get more certain on that SP is the "scum flaming lurking SP" instead of the "everyday flaming lurking SP", I don't think it will be a good lynch.
Furthermore, he's an easy lynch target. I think it's obvious that there is more than one scum left, so instead of dedicating to the VI, you can try and find the other scum.
What you say about M=W is, indeed, confusing.
Also, instead of pointing out the "old news", it would be better you concentrated on the "recent news" i.e. the more recent posts.

Eh. Tuesday's are really busy, but I'll

tear hayl's case to bits

respond to hayl's case tomorrow. Deadline's coming up, and a chrono lynch isn't going to happen, it seems.

Unvote, Vote: Iecerint

No reasons(yet, it's possible I'll have some reasoning tomorrow). It's just me not wanting a no-lynch and not wanting to be lynched either.

*head asplodes*
This vote is scummy as hell. It's the very definition of bandwagoning in Mafia (voting just to lynch anyone, not pointing out reasons to do so; you say you will post 'em tomorrow, but I don't think that tomorrow in RL we will still be in D4 in the game).
Furthermore, the fact that you just join the new wagon when you are under threat is indeed worsening it.

All in all, I'm still disliking the Iecerint wagon. He has dropped from "town" to "null" in my scum list, but I don't think he's enough scummy to me. I think the wagon is bad, and I'm yet to see any serious reasoning behind it. There's many poeple who have been lurking or absent lately and that have jumped in just because.
I'm voting for M=W; while I still don't understand a big part of the case on him, his latest post is extremely bad. Furhtermore, he has been in the verge of active lurking almost the whole game.
Ergo,

Vote: Me=Weird

. Again.

So basically, you're defence is 'Im town, I can't be being bussed' correct?

No. I think he thinks that your reasoning there was loaded to Furc being scum. If it wasn't, please paraphrase.

[pacman281292]

lol, well with Iece the only one not voting one of the two leading wagons..>I guess we know, how this day is going to end.

Unless someone switches wagons, that is.

[pacman281292]

VOTE: Iecerint

Can we do THIS, lynch THIS, and massclaim tomorrow or the next Day? YES. LET'S DO THAT.

So you have nothing to say in the latest developments?
Oh dear...

VOTE: Iecerint

I third the notion of doing this today.

--

Interesting way to crumb while concealing... Might have to 'steal' it one day.

FoS: Chronopie.

You have been asked many times to contribute, but now what you're doing is senselessly sheeping on the lynch.

lol, M=W was lynched??...mother fucker....cant wait to hear what Agar and pac have to say today.

Well, I admit I was wrong. Again.
I didn't go for Iecerint because I didn't feel him enough scummy to warrant my vote. I'll have to rethink my scumlist after this, but while I no longer see Iecerint as town, none of you have convinced me into believing Iecerint is scum.

now I got an issue....I have problems believing haylan's claim at this point ("I got a no result so there must be a RB"), but when the Iece wagon started anew, Iece comes out with the haylen deflection...

Well, I think that holding on to wait the tracker claim isn't so much big. Well, that's my opinion.
If you were adressing something else please point out.

I also heavily pushed Iece yesterday and his wagon got a lot of steam...., yet scum felt that should off Friend, who wasnt on the wagon (mental note: go back and reread his note from the others).....ehhhhhh....not feeling Iece as strong as I once did....Iece does have a point that people should be wanting to see the claimed tracker's result before starting his wagon up.

Oh well.

in so many games, I kick myself at the end when I dont go with my inital gut read on a player (iece)....but I dont believe the claim and need to go back to reread how that claim came about.

SP...plum, your thoughts on the tracker claim?

I've not fully read the Iec/Haylen discussion. I'm trying to catch on something there, but my brain is frozen.

(confused)

Iece, have you claimed something yet and I am missing it?

He claimed being a Neighborizer.

[pacman281292]

VOTE: Iecerint

Can we do THIS, lynch THIS, and massclaim tomorrow or the next Day? YES. LET'S DO THAT.

So you have nothing to say in the latest developments?
Oh dear...

Excuse me? The latest developments did nothing to indicate that my best choice for lynch yesterday was any worse. Haylen slipped my mind for a minute, but either way I was the first vote of the new Day and there as no risk in me putting out an initial top-lynch-choice vote. AT ALL. Furthermore you don't seem to have much to say about the latest developments: You admit to being wrong about Me=Weird (no duh, Sherlock), say that you've gone from Townish to neutral on Iec (but not

why

), don't see waiting for the Tracker claim as a big deal anyway (unless you meant something else, because your wording there was too close to incomprehensible for my liking), and manage an 'oh well' comment on CKD's musing. Well, that really was SOMETHING to say on the latest developments. The only thing close to content was accusing Chrono of sheeping on the Iec wagon (and honestly, again, that

had not happened

by the time of the post of mine you quoted). TL;DR, you're a hypocrite and a scummy one at that.

I was unclear then. By "latest developments", I don't just mean what has happened since the start of the day 5. I mean what has happened since you went inactive. I don't think it's "nothing happened", and I want you to catch up there.
I said why did Iece slide from town to null in my scumdar in my 1727. He has been active lurking, and the post I quote there was bad.
Sorry if you didn't understand what I meant. I'm not native english speaker, so I didn't know how to word myself. What I meant is, asking to wait for the tracker claim is IMO a null tell. It's just common sense. If you think it's indeed something else, then say why.
I didn't understand CKD's "musing". I got lazy there; the fact he's no longer saying "Iec is scum due to my pwnsome gut" was somehow relieving.
But, on second thought, that wording looks fishy. I'll think on that later.
The Chrono sheeping had nothing to do with your post. That was referring only to Chronopie. I didn't talk about the discussion because I was (and still am) too tired to think on it adequately.

Chronopie, Pacman, CKD, SocioPath, Haylen
I want you all to pick someone from this list. Consider adding Plum. I am null on her, leaning town. Nearly null, I guess. AGar is semi-cleared by mothrax, Iecerint DID neighborize me, I know my role, and that leaves the rest of the list.
Chronopie I am ok with being lynched
Pacman I have interpretted as a VI, but he could be a scum VI very easily
CKD would surprise me if he flipped town
SocioPath is probably town, but he hasn't contributed enough to fully convince me. He likely is just good at imitating his meta as all slots.
Haylen feels like squirmy scum that has replaced into a slot. I also have no idea how she knew Iecerint neighborized me. I don't see how this fits in with the gravedigging claim, either, so I am going to vote to lynch her.

vote: haylen

ebwop: chronopie, unvote. I didn't know Iecerint.

Making my official picks later (tomorrow) when I can think, but as of now I'd say CKD, Chronopie and (possibly) Haylen. Socio is WTF but discarded (somehow), and I know my role. I'll have to reread the last 2 pages in order to settle my Iec read, and I'm also unsure of Plum.

UNVOTE: Iecerint Teach me to recheck for past claims in future. I interpreted Haylen's "no result" statement as either Iecerint-scum

Ninja[/i], or a scum-RB targeting Hayl. (FTR: I just got lynched as a ninja in another game, so it's fresh in my mind).

@Furc: Hayl tracked Iecerint to you. Iecerint previously claimed Neighbouriser... 1+1.

--

Chronopie

, Pacman, CKD, SocioPath,

Plum

,

Haylen

I want you all to pick someone from this list. Consider adding Plum. I am null on her, leaning town. Nearly null, I guess. AGar is semi-cleared by mothrax, Iecerint DID neighborize me, I know my role, and that leaves the rest of the list.
Chronopie I am ok with being lynched
Pacman I have interpreted as a VI, but he could be a scum VI very easily
CKD would surprise me if he flipped town
SocioPath is probably town, but he hasn't contributed enough to fully convince me. He likely is just good at imitating his meta as all slots.
Haylen feels like squirmy scum that has replaced into a slot. I also have no idea how she knew Iecerint neighborized me. I don't see how this fits in with the gravedigging claim, either, so I am going to vote to lynch her.

vote: haylen

So I'm just an "ok" lynch, no read either way? Makes a change from my typical scummy meta.
What's more I know my own role, although I'm in no way proven.

Haylen's proven role, if not alignment. However the role is heavily town biased, for the simple reason that Scum would have an upper hand in accurately choosing/predicting deaths to imitate. I'd advise an Unvote.

So my list would be: Pacman, CKD, SocioPath,

and

Plum

.

I agree on pacman.
CKD's play this game doesn't look much like Ninja mafia, but idk if that's due to his being cop in that game, or being scum in this, or just a general apathy due to a VT role. I know I tend to suffer from such.
I don't have a good read on Socio either way :/

Plum.. idk, sometimes town read, sometimes not. That last post is a townie post.

This is a bad post.
Your picks are me (sheeping Furc's ambiguous argument), CKD on meta, and Socio even if you don't actually have a read. My thoughts on Haylen's role will come tomorrow, but I do think that that role would be impossibly hard to play in town hands.
The fact she got it midway in the game makes me feel somehow uneasy.

[pacman281292]

also random question for smokes/lights

is there any benefit in correctly IDing you?

This post got illuminated??
WTH.

[pacman281292]

@Furcolow: We're 9, so it's impossible we're in MyLo. We *might* be in LyLo, however. If that's the case, voting no lynch would be a stupidity, as scum will quicklynch it.
Nonetheless it makes me think that we *might* not be in MyLo. Either way, I don't think no lynch will actually be good.
/quickpost.

[pacman281292]

Plum, who is scum and why? Why do you seem so "disinterested" in the game?

Well, Socrates died and the Pacman pressure died, and I lost hold on which directions scumhunting was going in and why. I admit that I don't have as good a grasp on the game as a whole as I'd like, which promotes a vicious cycle of moderate disinterest.

That said, I'm going to bet that I was right in the beginning and pacman is scum and CKD probably

isn't

in that case. The reasons for which I found him scummy at first still stand, I should think. As for the rest, Iec isn't a

bad

choice, and Chrono is a meh choice for scum. I have

nothing

on AGar, which is minus points for him. Somewhere in there, I hope, are two scumbags.

VOTE: pacman281292

This post seems bad to me.
You seem to want to go lazy with your case, and pull your D3 case on me back on, in order to get on with something.
That "disinterest" is indeed no good for the game, and you do seriously need to wake up.
________________________________________________________________________________

I've reread the Iec/Haylen interaction for the claim. Haylen's reasons for targeting Iecerint is valid, and her claim of getting her PMs on hold seems plausible.
What I found interesting there, however, is the wording of her claim of not receiving results:

I did received "no result", so I conclude that either Iecerint has a hiding ability or there is a roleblocker in the game. If that player is scum, then I was obviously targetted because of my tracking ability and not killed because that would be stupid as I could still be lynched. If that player is town then they will receive a rather pissed off response from me after the game. If that player I town, I will not ask them to make themselves known, just...don't do it again. That was a one shot.

I think I might be just way too paranoid on thinking this, but this wording makes me think Haylen claimed having

received "no result"

as result, not

not having received result

. While the following staging of events makes Haylen's claim of not having results pretty much possible, this wording is somehow unusual. It might have been just a redaction mistake, however, so this might not be so much important.
I don't believe Haylen's claim that "vezlie" meant "vez + Haylie". Occam's razor just tells me that it's most likely that "vezlie" means "vez lie". However, the fact that that "holy one" might have evil motivation makes me hesitate from the truthfulness of the statement.
uh...
Now, about the Haylen/Iecerint interaction: It's possible that Haylen or Iecerint might have gotten their powers while being scum. However, this is IMO relatively unlikely, altough it's obvious that their receiving PRs might be beyond our understanding. However:
If Haylen is lying, and she didn't have the track power (and thus I would conclude this means she is scum), either she's a fortune teller, or scum does have a tracker/watcher of their own, or Iecerint is scum with Haylen. Otherwise there would be no reason to get Haylen to catch Iecerint going to Furcolow's.
If Haylen does have said ability, this would mean Iecerint didn't lie. However, it's still possible that any of them would have gotten their powers as scum.
I'm still thinking that the "grave digger" power Haylen had would be horribly hard to play for a townie. However, again, the fact she claims having received it mid-game makes me think that the fact there is an evil "holy one" might be puzzling us.
These are my thoughts on Haylen's and Iec's powers. I'm still somehow puzzled, but I think Haylen is still likely to be scum, mostly due to the power she had. I'm not sure on Iecerint, however. I don't know which lynch would give us more info either, as the scenarios I stated would still leave lots of "loose ends".
I'm rereading Sebguer/CKD. I've been feeling a strong scumvibe from him, so I'll recheck here.

[pacman281292]

I have never had an inbox fill or pm someone who had it filled.

I did received "no result", so I conclude that either Iecerint has a hiding ability or there is a roleblocker in the game. If that player is scum, then I was obviously targetted because of my tracking ability and not killed because that would be stupid as I could still be lynched. If that player is town then they will receive a rather pissed off response from me after the game. If that player I town, I will not ask them to make themselves known, just...don't do it again. That was a one shot.

She said she "did receive "no result""....this to me says that she got a PM that said no result

I adressed this point in my 1822. It does bug me a lot as well.
It's important IMO, but might be indeed a redaction mistake. However, there are some points that make me feel uneasy as well (all adressed in post 1822)

[pacman281292]

Plum calls for town unity in her 656, all in bold. I, despite being in Plum's scumlist, totally endorse that post.

Then why did you never write up a 3 scumreads/1 Townread list like I asked? Or did I miss it somewhere?

Yes you did. I did it in one of my catch up wallposts (I think it's post 1776, I'll tell you the exact number later). I know that was late, but it's there.
Otherwise I do like that post.
Not done with the CKD reread. Adressing that and the "FREE ANSWER QUESTIONS" tomorrow.

[pacman281292]

EBWOP: At my 1776 I do post some scumreads, but mostly based on skim-reads, and my former "official" scum reads, which are stated in post 1663.

[pacman281292]

EBWOP: At my 1776 I do post some scumreads, but mostly based on skim-reads, and my former "official" scum reads, which are stated in post 1663.

Keep standing on your fence.

did you even read those posts? no? then don't come here with flaff and read.
stop lurking. if you actually do feel suspicious of someone, speak now or STFU forever.
dammit...

[pacman281292]

Sorry for being late. Post coming up right away.

[pacman281292]

@Plum: Patience please...

OK.
First, adressing Plum's questions:

FREE ANSWER QUESTIONS (THESE ARE

NOT

RHETORICAL):

1. Would mothrax say this if pacman was his scumbuddy, after Soc's soft counterclaim or whatever of mothrax? Explain using your own words.

The best thing we can do right now is all shut up,

don't

talk about anyone else, and speedlynch mothrax ASAP.

so you want to deprive town of more information?
At least pacman is being sensible and not just taking socrates for his word...

2. Friend (flipped Town) received information presumably from one of the !!!!!!! players. The information implied that Vezok lied about his Day 2 ability (indicated vezok/Haylen scum). Grave Robber is not similar to Tracker or Neighorizer (and yes, one-shot Neighborizer is the standard, not the variation, so). However, her Track of Iecerint was in fact accurate, as far as we know. Apply Occam's Razor to this problem and explain whether it more strongly imples Haylen-scum or Haylen-Town.

1. I can't find any correlation there, but I think it's mostly due to me standing on a biased PoV (the question is about mothrax and me, and I do know that I'm town).
2. Applying Occam's, I'd say this implies Haylen-scum more strongly. However, there's the fact that Friend's "holy communication" might have been sent by the evil "holy one". Nonetheless, I insist that the "grave-digger" ability would be almost impossible to play for a townie, but much easier to use in hands of scum.
The fact that she correctly tracked Iecerint leaves me with 4 choices: a) Haylen lied, but posesses psychic powers (likely scum), b) Haylen is scum and her scumteam does have a tracker/watcher to help her, c) Haylen is scum with Iecerint and d) Haylen did get the power as she described (which still wouldn't imply alignment IMO). a is obviously unlikely, and I think the other ones are perfectly possible.

My reread on Sebguer/curiouskarmadog:
Sebguer: He randomvoted, then started epictunneling Furcolow. Then, flake. What could I find here? Nothing. Maybe that he was pursuing an easy lynch on Furc, but I think that the info is way too meager to reach a conclussion.
So, I'd say null.
curiouskarmadog:
(I'm gonna split this one in 2 parts; his iso is way too long and I've got to leave soon).
ISO1: Starts his game with a catch-up post.

I think it somehow lacks analysis, and tunnels on easy-lynch vezo and PRed zwet, while letting other bizarre players (e.g. Furc) at large. Humm...

ISO2-5: Some spam bickering with Friend.

lol?

ISO6-7: Second part of catch-up. First insist on vezo's scumminess based off 4 posts on early D1 (wtf?), and keeps assuming Furc is town-VI. Followed by pinpointing mothrax's sheeping of a wagon that didn't actually make sense. Good catch.
However, this catch-up post is otherwise still full of IIoA, and many times focuses at frivolous happenings (like zwet getting his ability to speak back, or Furc being town at meta). The catch-up lacks lot of things, and seems like overhurried approaching the end. Not sure on what to think here...

Sorry, but I've got to go. Computer running out of batteries + it's 11:20PM here (I should be asleep). I'll complete the reread tomorrow.

[pacman281292]

ISO6-7: Second part of catch-up. First insist on vezo's scumminess based off 4 posts on early D1 (wtf?), and keeps assuming Furc is town-VI. Followed by pinpointing mothrax's sheeping of a wagon that didn't actually make sense. Good catch.
However, this catch-up post is otherwise still full of IIoA, and many times focuses at frivolous happenings (like zwet getting his ability to speak back, or Furc being town at meta). The catch-up lacks lot of things, and seems like overhurried approaching the end. Not sure on what to think here...

Sorry, but I've got to go. Computer running out of batteries + it's 11:20PM here (I should be asleep). I'll complete the reread tomorrow.

Back to complete this.
ISO8: Suddenly flips around from vezoobvscum to vezoVItown due to meta.

????

ISO9-10: Jumps into the mothrax wagon for "not liking his play", flips again to vezoscum due to gut.

This post makes me think that you might have known mothrax was scum with certainity (by being scum yourself). Not sure, but that's the feel I get from this post. Also, the fact you keep shifting in your vezo read bugs me.

ISO11: A weird reply to a mothrax post. I does not compute.
ISO12-27: Starts by saying that he dislikes the mod speculation, then decided to make a (failed) test of the light/smoke mechanic.

This is active lurking. You can try and make the test, yeah, but you haven't contributed actual content since your catch-up. And you keep not being helpful.

ISO28-29: More mod outguessing, this time at the field of the !!!!!'s identity.

Again, no contribution aside from outguessing the mod.

ISO30-31: One-liners.
ISO32-34: First scolds me for attacking someone for unvoting me (

I wasn't attacking him for unvoting me, I was attacking him for the vote he made then, altough I don't remember details well

), then asks for claim. Then shifts his vote to me mindlessly after moth's failclaim, then unvotes, asking for reasons on his track.

This part is confusing. My feel is that he mindlessly shifts away after seeing moth claim, but suddenly changes his opinion, maybe after seeing how unfeasible moth's claim was. However, I'm not sure.

ISO35-37: Disagrees with mothrax's reasons to track AGar.

I don't know what to feel about this.

mothrax is lynched.
ISO38: Promises a reread after the D2 flips.

Which never hapens. lolwut?

ISO39-41: Some short replies to the ongoing speculations (namely battery speculation, and the idea of massclaim).

In posts 40-41, I see you pointing at me disimulatedly, first asking everyone's feeling about me after the moth flip, then saying "pacman wagon is better than Furc wagon". This feels a little like "testing the waters" for a wagon on me. Huh.

ISO42-43: Complains about Soc's chart.

Well, Soc's chart alone isn't of much use, indeed. However, it's useful to see tendencies easily. That's the point on making it IMO.

Promises a reread.
ISO44-46: Coming back from not-announced V/LA. Scolds Furc for proxying his vote to him.

And the reread?

ISO47: Votes Plum (

with no reason lol

), asks her a relatively pointless question IMO (

I think this is related to her tunneling on me but IDK

).
ISO48-49: Scolds Furc for his reasonless vote on Locke, then scolds Locke for his poor defense.

Well, if you see that the votes on Locke seem to be reasonless, then which defense do you expect from Locke?

ISO50: Hops on Locke's wagon.

Hypocrite. You scold Furc for hopping into Locke without reason, then you do the same. No, ISO49 wasn't enough reason, at least for me. Heh.

ISO51: Attacks Locke for his response to your ISO49.

Your response to this is IMO a misinterpretation of what Locke said. Locke's question is valid.

ISO52-56: Attacks vezo for his attack on Locke and (later) on him.

vezo's attack and attitude was poor and contradictory at that point. Then his question dodging was also scummy.
Then vezo flakes from the site. lulz.

ISO57: Answers Plum's question regarding his question in ISO47.

The reasoning there is somehow twisted, and I think it's meta-related. If it is, I don't quite see the point of the question in first place...

ISO58: One-liner. Agrees with massclaim.
ISO59-60: Wonders about whether Furc is VI or scum after AGar votes. Then, briefly mentions feeling uneasy of Iecerint.

I see both these statements as testing the waters. You had stated for long that you just felt Furc was a VI townie. then, you doubt after AGar votes him. Humm... Also, you later would start recklessly attacking Iecerint. This is the first time your slot mentions Iecerint the whole game.

ISO61-62: V/LA. Then, you hop for Iecerint.

The only time you mention Iecerint before this post is ISO59, and your statement is basically "testing the waters". Then, you vote him with no reason whatsoever, while you've been often attacking people for voting without reasons.
Lol.

Strong FoS: curiouskarmadog

ISO63-65: Some iffy one-liners.

More active lurking. Also, when Iec asks you why the (reason-less) vote you plain dodge the question.

ISO66-69: More mod speculation.

More active lurking.

ISO70:

This one will be somehow long, despite being about a one-liner. Well, it's just re-stating my answer to the question there.
Shortly before this post, I would make the first of my catch-up posts. There, I pointed out a post by Iecerint where I present some reason to think CKD might have OMGUSed him. Humm... where did it go?
...
Found it.

Relevant because Soc was all CKD IS OBVSCUM and I was like WELL I DUN THINK SO HERE IS WHY and he was like OK THAT MAKES SENSE ACTUALLY THX.

But since then CKD has been sorta getting crap past the radar.

It could be that I am mourning Soc.

I'll repeat the question to Iec here, as I think it went unnoticed (or I missed/forgot the answer).

@Iecerint: Please point out the post(s) where the interaction you mention at the quoted post do happen.

Iecerint pointed out this post. Soon after, CKD votes him all of a sudden. The feel I get from those posts is that, when Iec points out that Soc thought CKD was scum at certain point of the game, CKD might have somehow misread and counter-attacked with no reason. That was the feel I got there, altough it might be me being paranoid. Oh well.
I would like to see those posts, to see whether or not it's worth the point or not.

ISO71-75: Some speculation about Friend's Holy Message.

HEY, WHAT HAPPENED TO THE CATCH-UP?

ISO76: Finally states some (very poor) reasons to think Iec is scum. It is: Iec is buddying with him.

I asked you where did such thing happen. You never replied.

ISO77: One-liner.

I don't get what you ask there.

ISO78-79: Speculation about the names of the Holy Ones.

Yeah, I think it had been stated by there that if we guessed the holy ones names we would get certain king of advantage. However, it's more active lurking. You've lurked through the whole extended D4 by keeping almost all of your posting dedicated to dynamocs speculating. WAKE UP!

ISO80-81: More one-liners.

I don't understand what is he addressing there.

ISO82-83: Dodges my question by saying "Iec's buddying with me is OBV".

If I asked you it was because I hadn't seen it. If you do truly feel this, point out where.

Then questions me for not voting.
ISO84-86. Asks for explanation to the M=W lynch.

Do I need to say the trouble with this post or not?

ISO87: Listen me! I think Iec is scum!

Answer my question!

ISO88-91: Disagrees against the proposal of posting the town reads. Proposes putting scum reads better.

Well, why don't you put yours (aside from "HEY GUYZ IEC IS SCUM LOLOLOL")?

ISO92: Confirms vote on Iecerint.

This is a standard tell. I know I just read it somewhere yesterday. Gotta read the wiki...

ISO93-94: Some bickering with Furc, first about his vote then about Sebguer's suspicion.
ISO95:

I'll brief this post in 10 words. "Hey, guess what? I have no actual reason to vote Iecerint, so vote him!"
Wait, those were 14 words. W/e. You get the point don't you?

ISO96-97: Reaffirms the point of ISO 95.

The vote on Iec is baseless. You say that "hey, all votes do have gut on them!" True, but false; many votes have a little bit of gut aside from actual reasons to vote. Not a (very) little bit of reasons aside from gut. Your vote has no floor, and you've just found yourself in such a dead end after being questioned for reasons that you're forced to resort to "gut". lol.

ISO98-99: Asks Furc for reasons on his Haylen vote (

*DANGER hypocrisy alert DANGER*

), then asks Friend why does he think Furc is town.

This post looks fishy, but I'm not sure why. Humm...

...
I'm tired right now, and still do have almost another hundred posts to adress. However, CKD has been active lurking for most of the game, often trying to look active by talking about the mechanics on the game. His vote on Iec was basically BS, his votes are often reasonless, and he acts hypocriticaly against non-reasoned votes.
So, I've decided to

Vote: curiouskarmadog.

I'm finishing the reread tonight.

[pacman281292]

lol, did anyone think that pac's iso would end in anything else BUT my vote?

that is the worst tunnel vision I have ever seen(and I have seen a lot of games).....if ask pac, EVERYONE OF MY POSTS ARE SCUMMY..

If you think I'm wrong, go ahead and defend yourself from the accusations. However, try to do it on a better formatting than mine, otherwise you might end up creating a wallpost worse than mine

example of this, you say i am active lurking, yet completely overlook Plum and Chrono....if you compare our posts, you would see that I have provided not only more content and posts, but actual stances....I am not saying that I think the two are scum (maybe scummy), but you completely ignore that....every post you commented on, you found a reason I was scummy...

Don't proxy the active lurking accusations towards Plum/Chronopie. Yeah, they are active lurking as well. However, this post was dedicated to your ISO, not to theirs.
Also, the fact they have taken almost no instance doesn't mean you're clear; if your instances are scummy themselves then you've got no point.

I dont think you are scum (again you were the counter wagon to moth), but you really need to open your eyes...

Huh?

here is some insight into your future..

lets says the town/remaining scum reads your post and says..."hey, pac has got a point, lets lynch CKD"..I am lynched...you then find out I am town...your only input today is your fucking tunnel visioned post that took MOST OF THE DAY to do... I can point out to you where have I put my input

if you think i am scum..fine, keep your vote on me (though I have a feeling your tunnel vision foolishness is going to hurt you later)

This whole "insight" is AtE. You try to (somehow) make me feel uneasy on attacking you "as it would have been the only input I did D5". Which is false. First, I've already posted something. Second, a case on you isn't all what I plan on posting D5. Duh.
Also, point out the input you claim having done up to that point. I'm not done with the reread.
Second part is straightforward AtE. Not scummy, but rather worthless.

but I would like your stances on everyone else today too...a sentence or two will be fine, but, I want to hear it.

Coming up tonight, maybe tomorrow.

also pac, one more question, what are your thoughts on the lynch yesterday? good lynch? why or why not? (yes, i know obviously a town lynch is bad, but what information was there any info that came of it?) Also what about the counter wagon, and the speed of it today?..thoughts?

I guess that wasnt one question, but I think your stances on these items are important to have today versus tomorrow...dont you agree?

I'm answering this question tonight as well. I'm currently at the university, so I don't have much time.

[pacman281292]

I rechecked, and while some of the points I stated were indeed overreactions, or harsh interpretations to "ambiguous" posts, (in case CKD/anyone willing to read such a wallpost noted), most of my complains to CKD's posting are because of CKD's active lurking. I mention this almost every line, as CKD promised rereads and stuff, then suddenly forgot it after seeing some bizarre "Holy happening".
Corrections here:
At ISO9-10 I overreact over the fact CKD suddenly jumps into the moth wagon with no reason whatsoever. The reasoning is a harsh interpretation to what happened. However, point on that he had no reason stands.
ISO32-34 is again an overreaction. However, I still think the hops were strange at least.
ISO39-41 is mostly a feel, but point stands.
ISO52-56's analysis is directed at vezo.
ISO70... well, I read Soc's post and didn't understand what would it implicate (if anything). It's still posssible that CKD's vote is an overreaction to the post, but the point is now weaker.
Everything else is OK. CKD is overreacting to my post. Whuh?
When I finish the reread (will happen tomorrow, got distracted with another game and might not have time to complete this), I'll group the strongest tells that I get from CKD. Still, my vote stands.

PEDIT: AND TALKING ABOUT "HOLY HAPPENINGS"...
WTF HAS JUST HAPPENED...
So Haylen flipped scum. As first, this further strenghtens my feel of Furcolow (due to the vezo-Furc interaction). This changes the situation with Iec as well, but I'm not sure how. Gotta check the implications of this in-depth later.
Also,

Sorry for being late. Post coming up right away.

This had better be good.

Also, it occurs to me. Why did mothrax claim

Tracker

of all things? Granted he didn't show much proficiency at claiming, but really. Why not Doctor or something easier to get away with longer than a Day?

OR does the team have (someone with) a Tracking power available? I suggested that before, but this is, oddly enough, another piece of evidence supporting the plausibility of the suggestion.

AGar, no apology needed.

this is of extreme relevance (apparently).

Vote: curiouskarmadog

. Answering questions I promised in my next post.

[pacman281292]

Humm.. I suddenly got to leave.
Sorry, but answers will have to wait for tomorrow as well.
@Iecerint: Yeah. I'm aware we didn't get a time extension.

[pacman281292]

wtf?..you are still voting me???...after Haylen even?..and with no change in the %.....AND you "suddenly got to leave"?

wtf.

I don't know how Haylen's scumflip might change my opinion on you. That goes for tomorrow.
I'm not supposed to be posting.

[pacman281292]

The fact that she correctly tracked Iecerint leaves me with 4 choices: a) Haylen lied, but posesses psychic powers (likely scum), b) Haylen is scum and her scumteam does have a tracker/watcher to help her, c) Haylen is scum with Iecerint and d) Haylen did get the power as she described (which still wouldn't imply alignment IMO). a is obviously unlikely, and I think the other ones are perfectly possible.

The fact Haylen flipped scum doesn't nullify any of the options. b and c are somehow more likely (now that we know Haylen was scum).
What Plum wrote on post 1908 was, basically, that the scum would likely have a tracker, mainly due to mothrax's fakeclaim. So, that would mean that choice b) among my choices would be right. So, I think it's now more likely that Iecerint is town, but I don't see it as 100% confirmed.
Humm...
Now, my thoughts on the other players:

Plum: She had been active lurking for most of D4, but she seems to be back. Her posting has improved lately, but what somehow bugs me is the fact she won't take stances on the other players. Indeed, it seems the only player she has posted her instance on lately has been myself, and it seems to be changing like crazy (first obvscum, then not so scummy, then null, then scum again, then VItown,...).
I'd like Plum to post her thoughts on each player, as I'm doing right now. Otherwise, my read is null. Some of her posting has been townish, but her active lurking severely hurt her image.

Furcolow: This player can be described by 2 words: Village Idiot.
Not intended to be an offense, but it is.
His posting is extremely contradictory. I've stated before that I feel his playing style is just one made to provoke other players into providing strong stances, while often contradicting itself. If it was for his posts, I would just have no read. It's just way too confusing.
However, my read on him is strong town, mostly due to his interaction with vezo. The fact they were going so much cutthroat for each other would almost instantly nullify a bussing argument. Also, Furc's playstyle might actually have been going for this, and it would be a set-off vezoScum against a self-sure FurcViTown.
So, I strongly believe Furc is town.

SocioPath: This player can be described by 3 letters and four question marks. WTF????
He's just absolutely unreadable. I'd say that, when the time comes, we will be able to discard out Socio as the last scum (in case he is). I'd leave him alive for now, even with his sheer uselessness.
uhh...

Iecerint: Some of his posting has been poor/useless, and he hasn't taken stances lately (barring the last string of like 8 consecutive posts I've yet to read), other than SocioPath and Haylen being scummy. Also, he has sometimes been active lurking, and mod-speculating. I would like him to provide more content (altough I've yet to read the latest things he said).
I couldn't find whether Haylen's claimed track would imply Iecetown or Iecescum. So, my read is also null, altough I'll have to reread him in ISO (I'll try to improve my formatting and be briefer, as my post about CKD was unreadably huge). I want him to point out stances as well.

AGar: His posting has been somehow good, and his votes have been often reasoned. However, since the start of D5 he would just tunnel on Haylen. Yeah, his cathces were indeed accurate, but Haylen isn't the only other player. This interaction, nonetheless, gives off a town vibe (well, he was one to point out the loopholes in Haylen's claim, and I don't think a scum would make such a thing when many townies are still undecided on the claim. Again, such degree of bussing is unlikely). My read on him is leaning town, altough I'd like he made a list of stances as well.

Chronopie: This player can be described in 2 words: Active lurking. He shamelessly hopped on almost all of the popular wagons with little to no reasons. The only post where he has stated his stances in more than one player was ISO26. As AGar and Plum, I'd like he stated his (updated) stances, with at least some reasoning. Overall, my read is null, with a (very) mild scum lean.

In numbers (10 being obvtown, 0 being obvscum):
Furcolow 8.5
AGar 7
Plum 6
Iecerint 5.5 (pending on reread)
Chronopie 4
SocioPath 3.5
curiouskarmadog 2.5 (pending on last part of reread)


The other question: The lynch on M=W had weak bases. Yes, I was on that wagon. However, the reason I decided to stay on it was because I didn't believe on the case on Iecerint. Some of M=W's posts had been scummy, so I decided M=W's wagon was better than Iec's. Well, he flipped town. Bad thing, but the best is to move on.

I'll go back to the CKD reread tonight (altough the post might come tomorrow morning). I think I might make a VCA as well, but I won't guarantee this one.

[pacman281292]

EBWOP: I should seriously stop making wallpoost, shouldn't I?

[pacman281292]

AGar: His posting has been somehow good, and his votes have been often reasoned. However, since the start of D5 he would just tunnel on Haylen. Yeah, his cathces were indeed accurate, but Haylen isn't the only other player. This interaction, nonetheless, gives off a town vibe (well, he was one to point out the loopholes in Haylen's claim, and I don't think a scum would make such a thing when many townies are still undecided on the claim. Again, such degree of bussing is unlikely). My read on him is leaning town, altough I'd like he made a list of stances as well.

So wait, tunneling on scum who might not have been lynched and wasn't expected to get shot and flip during the Day is some sort of point against him??? The tone is strikingly reminiscent of that.

What was bad was the tunneling itself. Not the fact the tunnelee flipped scum. You're misreading me.

Basically you end up wasting time semi-implicating people you have Townreads on for good reasons for things

which are themselves nulltells or Towntells

. This smells of something.

Again, you misread me. AGar was further more cleared as town (for me) due to his interaction with Haylen, but I'd like to hear some content about everyone else. That's it.

Anyway, I'm not doing what you did. Call it a style difference, but that's not an appealing use of my posting time in this game. Really really not, actually. If you have the time/energy to go through each of CKD's posts (or nearly so) and declare something scummy about each of them, you have time to think through Haylen's claimed Track and figure out what you think the implications are re: Iecerint. I'd rather do that (and I'd also rather you did that, but whatever).

Huh? I think my question is indeed adequate. You've just been tunneling on me for a long time. I'd like to at least hear your thoughts on the other people.
I did the thing you said. Yeah, checking info based on known flips will give us info. But, when we don't have enough info from it (as is the case, I checked and didn't find any conclussion), we should find more "subtle" scumtells at the players' posting. That's what I think.

You know who I think is pretty definitely Town. Read up on mothrax's interactions with Chrono, plus a few other things (I think he's been early/only player on Haylen/vezo a few times) if you don't want to take my word on Chrono.

I skimread Chrono, and didn't find anything that would imply him being obvtown. He's just lurking through IMO.
About mothrax/Chrono, I don't actually know. Please point out why do you think the moth/Chrono interaction implies Chronotown, else I won't buy it.

In brief, don't be lazy. I think you still need to answer what I asked.

More tomorrow.

[pacman281292]

I've been distracted with other stuff lately, so I've not been able to finish the reread. Sorry. I'll try to catch up tomorrow.

Now, as we watch him flail, lets see him shove attention onto someone else he has been avoiding for a while to minimise flake towards himself by pointing fingers.
Especially with that new scum flip, to cut all ties to the recently deceased scum:

The fact vezo was scum really makes me think the above points to pacmanscum, with a fail-bussing on vezo's part, with the whole "good vote because its not bad" crap that I was talking about before.
Looks and feels like a half-assed bandwagon bussing to get whatever cred he can by going "oh I wanted him dead so obviously I'm town."

Then there is this beauty:

SocioPath: This player can be described by 3 letters and four question marks. WTF????
He's just absolutely unreadable. I'd say that, when the time comes, we will be able to discard out Socio as the last scum (in case he is). I'd leave him alive for now, even with his sheer uselessness.
uhh...

SocioPath 3.5

Chronopie: This player can be described in 2 words: Active lurking. He shamelessly hopped on almost all of the popular wagons with little to no reasons. The only post where he has stated his stances in more than one player was ISO26. As AGar and Plum, I'd like he stated his (updated) stances, with at least some reasoning. Overall, my read is null, with a (very) mild scum lean.

Chronopie 4

Chronopie is an active lurking null read, he gets a 4, which is null learning towards scum...okay.
SOCIOPATH is "absolutely unreadable", but can be left alive because useless...which is 3.5 for being scummier.

Last time I checked, finding someone to be scum means you are GETTING A READ ON THAT PERSON.
Not "oh I cant read you...so you're scum."

Wish THAT wash.

Vote: pacman

AND AFTER THAT THERE IS THE IECING ON THE CAKE.

You have posted almost no content (OH MIRACLE YOU AT LEAST TRIED TO DO SO TODAY! ZOMGOMGOMG!). You're absolutely unreadable, as you seem to not have ever tried to play the game for real. That worsens your situation against other active lurkers IMO. That's why I scored you as slightly worse than Chronopie.
I don't understand the first part. I think you mean I'm scum because vezo was bussing me, right?
If so, point out where. You have decided to throw a case, so explain what you say plz.
If not, then explain what do you mean.
@Plum:

Everyone saying 'we shouldn't vote Pacman today because he was the Mothrax counterwagon needs to go back and carefully evaluate the evolution of Day 2 and it's wagons. I hope to do that myself tonight, but don't just write it off.

Answer these questions (in italics, in case you missed them):

Anyway, I'm not doing what you did. Call it a style difference, but that's not an appealing use of my posting time in this game. Really really not, actually. If you have the time/energy to go through each of CKD's posts (or nearly so) and declare something scummy about each of them, you have time to think through Haylen's claimed Track and figure out what you think the implications are re: Iecerint. I'd rather do that (and I'd also rather you did that, but whatever).

Huh?

I think my question is indeed adequate. You've just been tunneling on me for a long time. I'd like to at least hear your thoughts on the other people

.
I did the thing you said. Yeah, checking info based on known flips will give us info. But, when we don't have enough info from it (as is the case, I checked and didn't find any conclussion), we should find more "subtle" scumtells at the players' posting. That's what I think.

You know who I think is pretty definitely Town. Read up on mothrax's interactions with Chrono, plus a few other things (I think he's been early/only player on Haylen/vezo a few times) if you don't want to take my word on Chrono.

I skimread Chrono, and didn't find anything that would imply him being obvtown. He's just lurking through IMO.

About mothrax/Chrono, I don't actually know. Please point out why do you think the moth/Chrono interaction implies Chronotown, else I won't buy it.

Also, related to the post itself: I'm not sure of that interaction. I don't care much. If you want to throw me off as scum, make a real case. And, again, stop tunneling, and at least try to read the other guys.

[pacman281292]

@CKD: lolwut?
Second (Yeah I'll make it the other way around): The way I (roughly) define tunneling (as it seems it's a different definition for you) is only attacking one player, while blatantly ignoring the other ones/not having stances on them.
I think it might be the wrong definition, but I think you might now understand what I'm trying to say about Plum.
And first, that vote DOES look terribly scummy. It's basically OMGUS; you have no case, and haven't ever tried to rebuff my case on you. Yet again, many of my "attacks" were at the fact that most of your posting was useless, and that you kept promising real content and never posted it. The points I somehow exaggerated are pointed out at post 1927. Again, if you feel that my case is poor, rebuff it. Don't just say "oh god pacman said all my posts are scummy so he's scum lynchhimnao".

[pacman281292]

EBWOP: About the quote about me, I think I said it. At that point (when I posted the quoted post), vezo had only posted 4 posts, none of which was actually voteworthy.

[pacman281292]

@CKD: lolwut?
Second (Yeah I'll make it the other way around): The way I (roughly) define tunneling (as it seems it's a different definition for you) is only attacking one player, while blatantly ignoring the other ones/not having stances on them.
I think it might be the wrong definition, but I think you might now understand what I'm trying to say about Plum.
And first, that vote DOES look terribly scummy. It's basically OMGUS; you have no case, and haven't ever tried to rebuff my case on you. Yet again, many of my "attacks" were at the fact that most of your posting was useless, and that you kept promising real content and never posted it. The points I somehow exaggerated are pointed out at post 1927. Again, if you feel that my case is poor, rebuff it. Don't just say "oh god pacman said all my posts are scummy so he's scum lynchhimnao".

1. I'm not tunnelling on you. If the fact that I directed a lot of energy to trying to sort out Iecerint and Haylen today isn't enough to make the plain and clear, I don't know what it. I have plenty of stances on other players (it just seems you don't like to hear it when the one's I'm most confident on are a set of three very strong Townreads, huh).

2. CKD never said that because you called all his posts scummy you were scum; in fact, he spent a while thinking you were Town very much in spite of that fact. You're calling OMGUS when it's not there. It's not even a strawman, it's a downright untruth, like when Haylen kept insinuating that anyone who found her scummy was basing it only of Vezo's scumminess.

1: If you mean Chronopie, then please point out the posts that make you think his interaction with mothrax implies Chrono being obvtown. I've yet to see your stances on many other guys. If you do have them, point out "I've already stated on personx" and I'll look for it myself. If you haven't mentioned those players, please try to read them and post something about them.
However, I think it's fair enough (somehow).
2: The first part is fair enough. I think I misread there.
The second part I don't totally agree. His read on me flipped all the way from "confused town" from "scum" without any reason, as my wagon seemed to take off (with SP voting and you having apparent intentions to jump in). I saw it as a form of trying to get an easy OMGUS under other people's reasons.
On second thought, it might not be so much of an OMGUS vote, but rather of a shameless bandwagon. I still think the vote is scummy.

Pacman, several players have made cases on you. Claiming that there is no case on you is just not true.

AS far as I've seen, Plum and SP have made cases. I've replied to both them if I'm not wrong (I might have missed answering something to Plum; if so please restate). CKD doesn't have a case on me; he just hopped in blindly when the wagon took off.

[pacman281292]

The gist of the posts I made is a series of isos where I decide that you are scum.

I never finished SP, though.

Humm...
Going to reread them in-depth right away. By skimming over the only thing I found was "I reread him in ISO and decided he wasn't actually town but scum".

1. I don't need to post through every single player to not tunnel, even according to your definition. I'm not tunneling.

2. He had some reason. Namely, he looked at what I mentioned he should look at and decided that it reflected poorly on his Townread on you.

1. I'm going to reread your posts. However, I think we'll need as much info as possible in this stage of the game. That's why I was so much eager of you posting something about all people.
2. I'm not calling this one. The only thing he pointed out was the fact I decided that vezo's first 4 posts alone weren't particularly scummy. I still think the flip was scummy.

@CKD: lolwut?...blah blah blah

so it seems like you are trying to plead your case with that post....I thought you thought i was scummy, why are you trying to plead anything with me? My vote isnt OMGUS....I did think you were town and did after your vote on me...but I went back and read (mostly because of the vote I missed by SP) and also reread my entrance into the game again (tons of content in those first two "replacing in and reading the game" posts alone). I also reread the wagons...I found you scummy and have explained why.

Also, I asked you to give me 3-4 bullet points as to why I am scummy (you havent put forward a case)...but you failed to do so...it shouldn't have been hard because you just tunneled me in an ISO, if you really thought I was scummy, you should jump at that chance to have dialogue with me in regards to that...but you avoided it.

I do not believe you really think i am scummy....I do however, feel you have an agenda.

Don't put the "blah blah blah" there. You know I said something.
I just said your vote was a very scummy flip-flop. the "blahblahblah" was my reasons why it was scummy. The point on your vote seems now clearer, but I still want you to point out what does actually make me scummy.

The 3-4 bullet points... I think I had them on my case post. I'll restate them when I complete the reread (I'm getting busy, so I've been pushing it back). However, there is a case on you, and it stands unless you explain yourself.
I don't get the last part of logic in that post.

Yes, I think you're scummy. No, that's not "an agenda" as you say. It's a case, as bad as it might sound to you.

[pacman281292]

again, why do you care if I think a case is "bad as it might sound"?...if you really think i am scum, of course I am going to think all cases are "bad"....I think you think the case is bad, but that is all you can come up with because I am a threat (or a perceived easy target)..


RESTATE THE CASE IF YOU HAVE ONE!!!!!!!!!...i have asked about 4 times now...if you have a case put it out there...all I see if a ISO that you obviously started as thinking I was scum and didnt read (or didnt want to read) as anything other than scum...that is called tunneling....now, i just dont know if you are town doing it or scum doing it....I am leaning scum....

First part: I misworded myself there. I didn't know which word to put (lapsus linguae FTW). There is a case (somehow poorly worded), but you seem to be too lazy to see it.
Second part: I'll restate my case (YEA IT EXISTS) in my next post. It'll be more of a catch up, actually; I've been somehow busy, and I'm soon to become V/LA.
However, what you say is STILL wrong. You're the one who doesn't want to read what I say, and instead go with "hey you called ALL my posts scummy so you're tunneling".
@MOD: Ouch, that should hurt.
Well, how did you ban

yourself

from the site anyways????

[pacman281292]

Argh. Got distracted by Marathon Day.
Sorry. First thing I'll do tomorrow when I log in will be catching up with what I promised.
Damn.

[pacman281292]

@AGar: I already claimed in the D3 wagon. I'm vanilla townie with absolutely no special power.
Time for defense. First, completing the CKD reread I never finished. Hold on.

[pacman281292]

Before starting, I want you to think something here. On ISO157, CKD says that he can understand my vote, as I do have a case, and Furc doesn't. This, alone, means nothing. However, shortly thereafter, the idea of lynching me got reborn (thanks to Plum *cough* *cough*). Then, at ISO171, CKD decided that I didn't actually have a case, and he voted me with no good reasons (as far as I saw, only thing you noted was the quoted post from... what? 5 PAGES into the game). On the meanwhile, CKD decided to keep his vote on SP because of him "withholding his vote". What could have caused that flip-flop, other than the idea of my lynch reappearing?
Seriously, I don't know.
Also, the case on me: Plum's case is her D3 case. I think I already replied it back there, and Plum decidede that my reply wasn't convincent enough. Either I missed something really big, or she did never state why wasn't my reply adequate. Then, her D5 case ended up being the same than the D3 case. Chronopie sheeped because of the lights (WARNING don't forget that one fo the lights comes from scum. Don't get fooled!), then AGar and Furc jumped without much reasons either (AGar passed from not mentioning me on his posts to suddenly call me scum. whut? Furc had been flip-flopping between SP, CKD and me the whole day). All I can wait for is CKD or Iecerint quickhammering.
lol.
If I do have time, I'll try to skimread Chronopie. I want to recheck what Plum said about him being obvtown.
Humm...

[pacman281292]

EBWOP: means nothing scummy, at first paragraph.

[pacman281292]

@Iecerint: Heh, as I expected. However, I want to finish my deeds before getting hammered.

ISO100: Complains about Furc callig himself obvtown as of Soc's chart.

Fair enough I guess. What makes Furc so obvtown is his interaction with vezokpiraka early in the game. That was discussed on early D3.

ISO101: Asks for reasons behind the M=W lynch.

This question, coming four hours after your "hey guys Iec is scum because pwnsome gut says so" post, looks *somehow* hypocritical. However, it's still a good point.

ISO102-103: First points out some flip-floppy posts by Furc.

Is there any point you're trying to show, other than Furc's flip-flop? It would have been better to elaborate. No need now, but...

Then, more of "why the chart explains you're town".

Again, lacks content.

ISO104: Elaborates on the previous attacks on Furc.

Aahh, better.

ISO105-106: Repeats the question in ISO100, then points out Haylen's flail post.

Not sure on what should I feel here.

ISO107: Posts his stance on Furc: Poorly-playing Town.

I don't like this post. Basically, you have just been pushing hard against a player that... humm... you consider town. This means all the string of aforementioned posts were just useless posting. You just slipped that all your posting was active lurking.
LOLWUT

ISO108: ISO100.
ISO109: Gives up on questioning Furc.

Indeed, it's better to stop this. What you had been trying to do was just useless anyway. I don't think the chart implies Furc town. What implies Furc town is different. I just don't know which point were you trying to prove here.

ISO110: M=W points out player interactions to CKD. CKD misunderstands, asking what would that imply on M=W's case.

No, that means nothing for M=W's case. That is, indeed, the reason why Furc is actually town. He basically answered you the question on ISO100. The chart doesn't imply fact without analysis; what implies Furctown is player interaction.
The post itself is null IMO.

ISO111-112: Repeats question in ISO101.

Still good point. When I tried to answer it, I didn't find much things implying M=W scum.

ISO113: Asks lights whether hammering would be a good idea.

What made you switch from thinking "There is no case on M=W" to think "I'm thinking on hammering M=W. Thoughts?"?
WTF

ISO114: More questions for lights.
ISO115: Tries yet another reckless push for the Iecerint lynch, as the M=W lynch had again fell through.

If you want to achieve a lynch on yourself, act scummy. If you want to achieve a lynch on Iecerint, make an actual case. This kind of posting is plain useless.

ISO116: Votes Chronopie.

Mind saying why do you think Chrono is scummy?

ISO117: Jumps back to Iecerint.

What the heck?

ISO118: I'll directly quote this post.

Agar, is my "doing nothing" scummy? Why or why not.

Two words. ACTIVE LURKING. It's what you've been trying to do. Looking active, while actually not contributing to catch scum.

when Iece flips scum, how will that affect your opinion? What will you be saying tomorrow if M=W flips town?

Two words as well. Loaded logic. You say "Iece will flip scum" as it was fact. If you do actually want Iece to ever flip, make a f***ing case, explaining us why do you think he'll flip scum. M=W flipped town, yes, but...

ISO119-120: Useless one-liners.
ISO121-122: Asks AGar to say a percentage of how scummy M=W is. Asks me why do I think he has no case on Iece.

I don't know how would the first question be of some use. Second question... I replied it back there, and after rechecking my answer still stands.

ISO123: Useless one-liner at the very end of D4.
M=W (town) is lynched.
ISO124: Comments on the M=W flip. Claims feeling the Haylen claim was a lie. Turns around on his gut Iece case (

maybe the fact he wasn't able to back it up forced him to drop it? IDK

).

I don't know what to feel. The sudden Iece turn-around looks fishy, and I don't know whether the speculation on Haylen's claim is sincere or just staged. Humm...

Pages 6-8 of ISO in next post.

[pacman281292]

DON'T TEMPORIZE.
IT'S ILL-ADVISED
TO MOISTURIZE.

?

What is this supposed to mean??

[pacman281292]

@Plum: I don't know what do you mean.
My reads are (mostly) stated at post 1980. My top scum read is still CKD.
Do you want them more elaborated? or briefer?
Also, is there anything on my case other than your D3 case? Or not?

[pacman281292]

mmm... OK.
As fun as it might sound to you, the "miracle" you said is actually true.
I'll try to gather all I've already stated on first part of my reread, then pull in the second part. Please wait.

[pacman281292]

whoa, I didn't get hammered while I was taking lunch?

Finishing reread right away.

[pacman281292]

CKD.
Already stated why. Currently working on restating.
Iec is null for me.

[pacman281292]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO d'oh?

[pacman281292]

*headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk*

AAAHH WTFFFFFFFF
Good game everyone. Bad that I was totally misled .