It's Always Sunny Mafia! (OVER-The Gang Saves Paddy's Pub!)

[DTMaster]

CONFIRMATIONED. Also, awesome, lets get the rest kthnks.

[DTMaster]

@Snow White
1. D'aww I'm flattered by the RVS comments.

@RVS
I'm NOT MISSING YOU.

Vote Socialpath

for insulting me right after.

@Exi
This is some seriously poor theory because not jump starting discussion leaves you in an infinite RVS/RQS loop. Number two generally also leads into 3. Also a good bandwagon from 1 leads into

@Raiv
You do realize that you can look into

our games via Wikis, or with the post search

. Why did you come in here to post that you like to meta, and nothing at all after discussions started?

@Mask on Fate
I agree Fate just claimed

Miller Princess

. It's better play to let someone NK him then lynch him and give scum two extra scum kills in a second night phase right away. I'd totally kill Fate just based on his role/etc.

@Mask on Raiv
Ew.

Kill Raivann

. I'd rather kill the non content poster over Fate right now.

Edit, only one of these day vigs are real. Which one is it hahahah1

@Verzol
Wait, what

YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO VIG The MASK DAMNIT

He's ripe for investigation, not kills. The fact that you shot him after his double voting powers = scummy scummy scummy. Especially more so if he flips town.

@Exilion agian
Why are you anti bandwagon. Bandwagons let me do VC analysis. It pressures Chrono. And if someone quickhammers, only scum would do that. It's full of information and brings us

out of RVS

. The fact that you are attacking Mask right now with attacks is evidence of that. Fail logic makes me want to put a bullet through your head tonight.

@Hacker
He claimed Miller Princess. Princess.

The Beloved Princess is a normal Townie, but when she dies, the next day phase is skipped (because everyone is at her funeral). Despite being a pro-Town role, the possibility of two consecutive night phases favor the anti-Town factions.

If VV is day vig, he's an idiot and didn't shoot the claimed princess. Scummy mc scumm is within Hacker who missed the rest of Fate's claim in the same post.

LOL I JUST RE-READ MY ROLE PM. I BANGED YOU FOR $250 LULZ

BUT BECAUSE IM SUCH A SLUT-WHORE/WHATEVER/SHADY/FUCK:

I"M A MILLER.

BUT SINCE IM SO HATED I"M LOVED, IM ALSO A PRINCESS (O_O????) SO UHH YEAH. TWO NIGHT PHASES AND SHIT HAPPEN IF I DIE AND THATS NOT COOL.

/endRVS

PREVIEW: OOP

Unvote, Vote Hacker

Here is my super scum list. People who'd I lynch are my scummiest scum reads.

Lynch = vezokpiraka, Hacker

People who I kill are anti-town, and not necessarly scummy but I'd still shoot if I was a vig. People who are on the lynch list are automatically on this list.

Kill = Fate, Exilion, Raiv

If I was a cop, I'd investigate these people because they read as town, but it's good to be reassured

Investigate = Fate (wait whhhhrrry? Sanity checks durh) , Mask

[DTMaster]

Scum Day Vig is possible. I was one in KMD KRAZY MAFIAZ

[DTMaster]

Post coming later just finished work .

[DTMaster]

Apologize. I was gleeing over SC2. Will post at a time when I'm awake and less Zerg rushes.

[DTMaster]

It's a little early, but Dram's death is weird. Brief NK analysis points towards Vez. Self note reread Vez. Reexamine Hacker case.

Vote Vez

[DTMaster]

Time for some actual rereads.

1. I just realized a flaw in my plan with Fate. Scum would only kill Fate and end the game 2 cycles before lylo. Because of double night, scum can end the game early. Dram/Hacker has the right idea of ending this WIFOM early.

2. I don't like the speed of Chrono's death. It was terrible. Originally I thought the neighbour would be scum with Chrono based on the speed of it. But Hrez just soft claimed this. Then threw in a hard bread roll. Was opposed to the lynch. Textbook style. I'd investigate this though.

3. Offtopic: Irony is fun.

you mean a counter-wagon to yours?

Well of course, I'm your scumbuddy <_<

^Blatant admitted scum buddying to a townie noted >.>

ITT, Chrono has a better scumdar then the "townie" Miller Princess Fate.

Edit 2: Fate can't read Chrono. Chrono is inheritly scummy. The fact that you said that his town game is simillar to his scum game is serious back tracking in this post Exilon is horrible for putting the blame on Fate. Fate at least spearheaded the case and went through with it. I'd investigate Fate who inheritly lied (seriously, he just posted that he couldn't read Chrono) and shoot Exilion.

4. I put my vote here to get my vote on the table on Verzok. But I just realized that Fate/Hacker pointed out something powerful. Verzok multi-daykiller is controllable and is an awesome force. We have a strong Day Vig wagon. Except now that he proved he's one shot steam dropped from the Verzok wagon from it's most vocal players (see SP) and Dram died.

Edit: Actually the proven is still on hold. I reread page 10 and the VC hasn't been done.

5. Exilion: Reread Dram's role. He is an action manipulator. He probably did that instead of killing (if he has one). Question is who? Also see Edit 2 (above)

Finally some rested brain power.

Summary of case:

1. Shifts blame of Chrono's wagon despite being on it:

Aside: Chrono's lynch went through so it technically counts as 7. Reck is being a bad mod and kept it at 4. 3 people didn't lose their vote or else Reck seriously messed up.

Fate (2): HackerHuck

Chronopie (4)

: Raivann, Fate,

Exilon,

vezokpiraka, BloodCovenent, Snow White, SocioPath
HackerHuck (1): DTMaster, Hrezs
vezokpiraka (3): dramonic, Chronopie
dramonic (1): seth

2. Asks Hacker why Fate should die when he is pushing for a Fate case. Talk about horrible contradiction in motivation. If Exilion wants Fate to die, he wouldn't ask Hacker for why he should die. He should say: more Fate vote nao. Hacker already presented his reasoning for his D1 Fate case. Exilion is supposively pushing for a Fate scum case based on his failed meta read. Now he's back tracking.

Vote Exilion

Lynch Nao kthnks.

[DTMaster]

1. Why are you questioning other's people motivations when you're starting with a Fate case/pressure. You don't ask people's motivations, you infer them from what they do. The fact that you asked for someone's motivations without presenting any of your own is scummy. Horrible, and isn't scum hunting. It looks like you're back tracking from your case, and using that point to attack someone else when you are guilty of it yourself.

If it's not an attack, it

makes someone build a case for you

. There's no work involved. That's not scum hunting. That's letting someone else do the scum hunting.

Why are you voting for Fate? You said you pressured him right? Day 1 and all? You should already have motivations to direct pressure that way. We already have lots of information from a speed wagon and people's reactions to it. Yours is horrible because you chose to pressure the guy who spearheaded the wagon.

When you pressure, you're saying that person looks scummy, lets find out more or I have no idea what my read on this person is. If you seriously don't have a read from Fate yet, then you are seriously, seriously, not reading the same posts.

Reread: What happened after Verzok killed and what Fate said

.

2. Also reread Hacker. Many questions are answered from that.

3. Way to bring insults to this. Also, nice shift from:

unvote: Fate
Yet you're not off the hook.

The only thing that I backtracked was my vote on Fate. I would be asking for votes in case I beleieved my case was genuine. Problem is, THERE WAS NO CASE.

Obviously you have something that ticked your radar when you go

IGMEOY FATE

. Less bolding, and not exactly the same exact words but same concept.

[DTMaster]

BC do claim. I have the hammer.

[DTMaster]

I'm debating about this, because the SK flipped action modifier. An action modifier could potentially mess up the game. But a town copier gives town three kills if BC is telling the truth. I'm going to sleep on it before I decide.

[DTMaster]

V.V. An extra vig is balanced by mulitple BPs/docs/protects/blockers. Hence why I didn't immediately jump at the too powerful theory.

Dram flipped Action Manipulating SK. Not just an SK. It doesn't look like an SK with a kill. Two theories:

a. Dram modifies actions.
b. Dram directs actions.

Claiming that a vig claim is too big of a stretch is ringing on my scumdar.

[DTMaster]

Oh forgot to answer. Snow_White. I've played with Chrono and he plays scummy in all his games as town or scum. It's frustrating, and very policy vig/lynch worthy.

Also see above about why I didn't hammer BC. Doubt says that we could have tested BC scum by directing his kills in thread.

[DTMaster]

Vote: Snow White

Cause Raiv tracker's result support my cop result on Snow White.

[DTMaster]

Full resuts are: N1 Fate showed up as innocent. N2, Snow_White showed up as innocent.

Since Fate claimed miller, I targeted him to test my sanity. I am either Naive/Random/Insane. I think I'm an Insane cop.

[DTMaster]

Huh, then why are you voting Her? Doesn't matter, my Cop result shows that she is scum.

[DTMaster]

Reck where are you. I'm waiting. Also wait for my results plz k thnks.

[DTMaster]

While we wait,

Vote: Rai

. A Mafia Watcher who didn't watch or submit the kill is super, super fishy.

[DTMaster]

Lol apparently I got no result so I was blocked last night. W

[DTMaster]

ERR which means Mafia has a RBer. Still Raiv wagon is a go. He still needs to claim his result, so yeah.

[DTMaster]

Oh wait hahahahahahahaha.. makes sense. Except the lack of kill.

Unvote

result plz.

[DTMaster]

If scum has a RB they would have blocked Rai N2 because I didn't claim till day 3. Hence S_B and no result is plausable because Rai would be blocked.

[DTMaster]

Guys. You do realize in a 12 p game a person who didn't target (see that 2 mafia and 1 sk is dead, therefore its likely only 1 mafia left) is cleared in this game? Rai's track works as cop clears. We need the result now.

[DTMaster]

In fact, Rai's track of people not actioning are better clears then my cop investigation due to investigation immunity roles.

[DTMaster]

Hacker, with a Mafia RBer and 2 investigation roles, he has to block one of the investigation roles. The other one will still gain a result still that is accurate. (because he clearly said S_B did nothing, which reminds me..)

@Rai

Reckoner said you got no result on S_B right?

.

@Seraphim
Er, 14 players my bad.

[DTMaster]

Rai. If I was blocked, your results

supports that

.

[DTMaster]

Why are you voting me? If I was blocked, you would get: DTM did nothing and you get no result. Thus I couldn't visit anyone and you wouldn't have gotten a result on me.

[DTMaster]

Why does it look like Rai claimed tracker only to bus and only to backfire with that post. Like it's super super dumb. I investigated Rai last night too and got blocked so...

Plus why would you track the claimed cop who got an innocent (insane one) on mafia and got that person lynched? Your track results can confirm people's alignment if they didn't action last night (see townies) if there are kills present. With no kills, not so much, but you function as a better cop then me FYI.

[DTMaster]

Wow a hider , a tracker and a cop. Generally hiders die when they hide behind scum. If all of these claims are true that means scum has powerful investigation immunity. I wouldn't put it past Reck to have a second godfather (assuming 4p).

[DTMaster]

Also will answer questions soon I'm on my iPhone and I'd rather type things out.

[DTMaster]

Ok questions and comments.

1. I outted my self with a result. You don't save cop claims till late game, you get them out early. You test their sanities. Hence why

I investigated Fate and claimed at S_B

. If I got a guilty (which would be an innocent on S_B), I'd wait because I didn't catch scum. Hence I kept on the wagon.

2. I investigated Rai, because of his earlier post that:

Snow_white did not action but Snow_white = Mafia Watcher. Because Snow_white didn't "action" I felt that Rai's claim was faked. I unvoted only today after when I realized that a role blocker exists. This makes sense to the lack of result. See my earlier posts this day on you and my initial vote. It's easier to see this in isolation.

3. This is scummy.

Why investigate me? I'm 2 for 2, soon to be 3 for 3. Please answer that.

Your vote was on S_W. Your track result, would have kill cleared S_W and actioned cleared her. Which is steps higher then unknown. In fact, you claimed no result on S_W. You caught Blood. You didn't catch S_W. My cop claim after your "subtle" hint that you had a tracker result snowballed the wagon.

Being on the winning wagon doesn't mean you were the reason for said wagon to go all the way.

4. If I was blocked, then I couldn't have visited any one. You wouldn't get a result off me because I was blocked. The fact that you claimed this after me saying I had no result and after Reck cleared in thread that no PM = no result, means I was blocked.

What's scummy is that you aren't asking the

mod for this

, you're asking the players. It doesn't look like you're geniunely intrested in clarfying role details when you do that. It looks like you're fishing for the correct answers in your track claim, from the town. Not from the mods.

5. Hey mister, note how Reck answered me in thread after the question.

6. Why is flavour suddenly important now? I don't like Fate's line of questioning on this.

7. Oh, SP is awesome sauce. I'm at work so I'll mull things over.

[DTMaster]

Oh right. Hide = untargetable. seraphim shouldn't have a track result on Hacker.

[DTMaster]

I'm used to the hider role from Xylbot in IRC mafia, where hiders use: untargetablity for their hide. If you consider the following few things:

a. The role of the hider is that you hide behind a person. Thus actions that target you fail because you are hidden. It depends though, some mods don't do that and it's an interpretation of the hider role. Hiders are pretty powerful because they act as confirmed sane cops. If you die that night, and your target isn't dead, that means you were killed via ability (see why it usually is this below)

b. Action Order Resolution
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... &start=500

Hide resolves before anything else. Therefore you can't be blocked/redirected/bussed/etc. Your hide resolves first (the only thing that works before is copy). Mods usually follow this, but it's not a hard rule of thumb.

See how Misc is low on the list. Misc includes investigation powers, therefore you should hide before tracks can happen. Watches should work if it's on Seth of obv reasons, because its a target on Seth, not you.

[DTMaster]

You do realize that you should announce your targets starting now. Since S_P was the mass blocker, we have an insane cop, a claimed tracker and a claimed hider. We can break the game with these roles.

The cop will investigate a claimed person
The Hider will hide behind a claimed person.
The tracker will track a claimed person.

Scum will have to choose between killing the hider/tracker/cop. If they no kill, the hider/cop will find him. If they do kill, all 3 people will find them.

[DTMaster]

If we have redirection/RB/bussing, 2/3 results will work, and at the worst case 1/3 will get through. It's enough for a large confirmation cycle to begin via PRs.

Also hacker, your question is super scummy. You stated that Raiv was most likely scum that night, so you didn't hide behind him.

I targeted you N2 because I thought that you were probably town based on your ability and because I figured that Raivann was a more likely scum target that night.

When all D2 you said the following:

You're not quite as trustworthy as Raivann's tracking, but a lack of result just means that she didn't perform the kill. It would be a good test of your sanity (unless random), but I want to think about this one some more. Unvote: Snow White

He's 1:1 so far. That's good enough to put Fate off for another day.
Vote: Snow White

[DTMaster]

Plus you asked the question on why Raiv was scummy, when you should know the answer if you thought he was. Hacker, you should hide behind a public scummy person. If you die and the target doesn't die, we caught scum. Now is not the time to hide behind town reads. You outed your bullet proof powers, so scum won't shoot you. Now it's the time to act as a better cop then me.

[DTMaster]

Um if Seth is the bomb, Hacker is lying you do realize that right? That means he's scum because he didn't blow up when he targeted seth. Or Seth is lying. Its more likely the latter.

[DTMaster]

Oops, sorry that's right, bombs =/= PGOs. Also I have a plan.

Seth do you blow up the hammerer? If so it's a good idea to have Fate hammer Seth so scum can't get back to back nights if necessary. This way we lose Fate miller and it should, skip his BP's power I think because his death is in the day.

[DTMaster]

1. Rai, why did you ignore my post? My explanations, etc.

ZOMG I STARTED BOTH WAGONS is weak sauce.

2. Fate, you are dumb. There is a mafia role that is perfect for this.

3. Rai. you didn't post for the rest of the day.

How could you have unvoted if you didn't post? You're justifying active lurking now and that's super scummy

. You attacked me for attacking S_W. You commented that S_W had no result, but you still voted S_W. Like, wut?

Rai, who's scum. Why are you so focused on your town points that you're not scum hunting me.

4. Fate. I claimed blocked

before Rai

. Are you seriously saying you thought mafia could multi block? Fate is scum. So scum. You thought Rai got blocked after I claimed blocked. I jumped to the conclusion that my no result was a block. Rai already said S_W had no result.

I summerized how Rai could have been blocked N2 you dumb person, and that Rai's result would have confirmed me even if it wasn't.

In fact, you claimed that Rai was blocked before SP's claim of his All block.

You are seriously dumb. When Rai said he had no result on me you said this:

If DTM was scum blocking you he would fake a result, not fake being blocked.

I mean come on.

Come on

Maybe your role got disabled or some shit.

Way to go Fate. Way to justify Rai's action while discrediting him at the same time.

[DTMaster]

If Seth's bomb works with lynches, I want Fate to hammer.

[DTMaster]

I got that Hacker was Innocent. Therefore I'm either Naive or my cop powers are awesome.

Vote Hacker

.

[DTMaster]

Now I'm worried that the last scum is a re-director. I'm alive when I shouldn't be. I assume that you Seraphim tried to kill last night? You might as well claim the target.

[DTMaster]

Wait, Seraphim, how did you know you were blocked? With your abilities that you still have you can't know that.

[DTMaster]

Also I realize that there isn't a scum re-director in the game, unless scum is that stupid. But Seraphim must claim his action first.

[DTMaster]

A scum redirector would redirect Seraphim to Seth to kill off the bomb, and kill 2 townies (if they are both townies), as well shoot Fate BP to cause a 3 kill turn over over the night. With that scum can kill again and redirect Hacker to themselves and kill the last townie causing 5 deaths all scum derived over two nights. Aka, scum would have won by now if he was a redirector.

[DTMaster]

Seraphim, if you assume 4 scum, this is mylo because Fate's death causes 2 night phases. If its 3 we still have a night cycle to survive and it'll be mylo tomorrow if Fate dies.

05. Exilon Seraphim [Bruce Mathis]
06. vezokpiraka [Barbara Reynolds]
07. SocioPath [Charlie Kelly]
08. HackerHuck [Dennis Reynolds]
09. DTMaster [Luther Mac]
10. Fate [The Waitress]
11. seth [Rickety Cricket]

7 people. Assuming 2 scum left and Fate dies and is town that's 3 deaths leading to 2 and 2. Assuming 1 scum left and Fate dies that leads into 4 people and 1 scum.

[DTMaster]

Also Seraphim, because you announced this, scum would just shoot Seth and avoid the bomb. You kinda broke your own bussing strat.

[DTMaster]

What you should do is to bus someone you think will die, and someone who's remaining on the scum list. That way scum would have to shoot a scummy person to get to the person they would want. If Hacker flips town, Seth won't be touched anyways. It's more efficient this way and Seth will live. If Scum chooses to shoot a confirmed town, they'd gamble by shooting the wrong person and hitting a scummy person anyways.

This cuts through the unconfirmed people faster, and doesn't give scum a loop hole so they can avoid the bus. It'll be a gamble for them and they'll speed up the process for us to win. Win win win!

[DTMaster]

Again announcing the busse is bad. Seraphim should have a pool of people to bus from so scum doesn't know who to target their kill.

[DTMaster]

Considering I caught SW and that relies that Fate was scum, I'd be 2 for 2 like Rai (except for S_W Rai didn't get it right but his targeting was good).

Rai flipped town, and claimed he has no result, we can assume that there is a scum role blocker, or S_W literally did nothing o-o.

Seraphim should bus from a Pool of Seth/Fate/3rd person that has been confirmed town via Hacker and the rest as his potential targets. Remember this. Announcing that you're bussing Fate/Seth is poor because scum would just need to attack that person. It's terrible.

[DTMaster]

Fate, did you just agree to a PR plan "cough"ELILAND"Cough"

[DTMaster]

I KAN'T I GOT WORK FATE.

[DTMaster]

[quote="DTM"ITT, Chrono has a better scumdar then the

"townie" Miller Princess Fate.

[/quote]

See here is my bread crumb. And I was a Sane cop but pretended to be insane for lols after Reck messed up my information. Hence the whole post about rants, etc.

[DTMaster]

Arg tag fail

[DTMaster]

I was tempted to investigate Sephriam last night, but his posts felt honest to me for some reason so I stuck with my gut reads :3