Mini 1023 - City Watch Mafia - Game Over!


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Post Post #400 (ISO) » Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:33 pm

Post by Thor665 »

FakeGod wrote:But VV's anti-town to a point where I don't think I can justify to myself (at this moment anyways) that I'm helping town if I were to place my vote on anyone else. :?
:o

YOU THINK HE'S TOWN AND ARE VOTING HIM BECAUSE YOU DON'T LIKE HIS PLAYSTYLE!?!
OH GAWDZ, HELP ME, I'VE BEEN THROWN INTO CAPSRAGE!

I am being ungodly called to vote for you, and I don't even think you're the best lynch today - why would you do this to me?

@Button (who may or may not be on V/LA - I'm not bothering to go check) - how do you feel about your wagon mate right now? What is your logic behind the VV wagon?

VOTE COUNT

Chronopie (3): Narsis, Thor665, Plum
VasudeVa (2): TheButtonmen, FakeGod
FakeGod (2): Budja, VasudeVa
Narsis (1): jimfinn

Not Voting (2): Chronopie, Tasky

With 10 alive, 6 votes are needed to lynch.
Last edited by molestargazer on Sat Aug 28, 2010 6:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #401 (ISO) » Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:44 pm

Post by Budja »

I rest my case :P.
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Post Post #402 (ISO) » Fri Aug 27, 2010 1:05 pm

Post by jimfinn »

UNVOTE: VOTE: FakeGod on the basis of voting for someone who they don't believe is scum. Encouraging the town to lynch VIs is very scummy play.
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Post Post #403 (ISO) » Fri Aug 27, 2010 2:13 pm

Post by Thor665 »

jimfinn wrote:This seems suspicious [snip] for being the third vote on a wagon. Major scumtell.
Lollercoaster.

I dunno. Knee jerk reaction is this is too awkwardly obvious. Scum is going to go out of his way to defend this stance? Seem he's defending the stance because he's Newb and doesn't understand why it's scummy. That makes the heart of the "case" a newb tell, which is null, and not a scum tell. Thoughts?
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Post Post #404 (ISO) » Fri Aug 27, 2010 2:14 pm

Post by Thor665 »

To clarify the above post - first sentence is mocking of jimfinn.

Second sentence is in regards to FakeGod wagon - not a "scumtell" on jimfinn.
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Post Post #405 (ISO) » Fri Aug 27, 2010 2:28 pm

Post by Budja »

That does make me a little uncertain. I'll have to do some rereading.
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Post Post #406 (ISO) » Fri Aug 27, 2010 2:29 pm

Post by Budja »

Also, @jimfinn, what do you think of Narsis now?
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Post Post #407 (ISO) » Fri Aug 27, 2010 2:47 pm

Post by FakeGod »

Thor665 wrote:
FakeGod wrote:But VV's anti-town to a point where I don't think I can justify to myself (at this moment anyways) that I'm helping town if I were to place my vote on anyone else. :?
:o

YOU THINK HE'S TOWN AND ARE VOTING HIM BECAUSE YOU DON'T LIKE HIS PLAYSTYLE!?!
OH GAWDZ, HELP ME, I'VE BEEN THROWN INTO CAPSRAGE!
whoa dude I never said I don't like his playstyle.
Budja wrote:I rest my case :P.
I rest mine too. I'm gonna take a break from this intense mafia warz.
jimfinn wrote:Encouraging the town to lynch VIs is very scummy play.
We all have our opinions.
Thor665 wrote: I dunno. Knee jerk reaction is this is too awkwardly obvious. Scum is going to go out of his way to defend this stance? Seem he's defending the stance because he's Newb and doesn't understand why it's scummy. That makes the heart of the "case" a newb tell, which is null, and not a scum tell. Thoughts?
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Post Post #408 (ISO) » Fri Aug 27, 2010 3:19 pm

Post by Chronopie »

/prodded.

Sorry I haven't been paying as much attention to this game as I should. But I just bought L4D and been playing that every waking minute. [/not a real/good excuse, but w/e.]

So I see wagons on myself, VV, and FakeGod. I assume I'm being wagoned for lurking. AFAIK VV for Rolefishing/role-harpooning :P, FakeGod for... Wagon hopping and an overly strong attack at odds with the rest of his play?

OTOH: Thor looks extremely town, Plum looked good D1, but slacking a bit. I'm getting Null reads on Jimfinn, Budja, Tasky-v/la, and Buttonmen (And VV). null-Scummy on Narsis. idk about Fakegod. I'm going to look back on some past games for him.
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Post Post #409 (ISO) » Fri Aug 27, 2010 3:21 pm

Post by Chronopie »

Wait... FakeGod: Do you have any completed Scum games at all? I see only town games on your wiki :?
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Post Post #410 (ISO) » Fri Aug 27, 2010 3:28 pm

Post by FakeGod »

Unfortunately, I have never been scum in MafiaScum.net

Ever.
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Post Post #411 (ISO) » Fri Aug 27, 2010 3:31 pm

Post by Chronopie »

Well that doesn't help :?

So I'll just have to contrast it one of your town games...

From Go Play in Traffic (complete)
FakeGod - Townie wrote:
kunkstar7 wrote: You find it weird that Fate changed his post style, but he seems more logical, so you are hesitant to follow him? Then you blatantly join the wagon just because Fate said so? Do you understand the reasoning behind the wagon?
Well, logic doesn't mean I should follow him. I play by inconsistency-tell, so when someone suddenly changes stance I get suspicious.

When I said logical, I didn't mean he was more convincing, but rather in a different style. It was a miscommunication. Don't worry about it.
This Quote just sticks out at me, because FG claims (as part of his town meta) to play by inconsistency-tell, yet commits inconstancies here.

VOTE: Fakegod
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Post Post #412 (ISO) » Fri Aug 27, 2010 3:32 pm

Post by FakeGod »

And may I ask where did I commit inconsistencies?
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Post Post #413 (ISO) » Fri Aug 27, 2010 3:56 pm

Post by Budja »

VOTE: Chronopie
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Post Post #414 (ISO) » Fri Aug 27, 2010 3:58 pm

Post by Chronopie »

The excessively strong push on VV is at odds with the rest of your playstyle. Thus inconsistent.

-P.Edit: ya know, reasons help-
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Post Post #415 (ISO) » Fri Aug 27, 2010 4:01 pm

Post by Budja »

Did you read Fakegod yourself or just my attack?
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Post Post #416 (ISO) » Fri Aug 27, 2010 4:38 pm

Post by FakeGod »

To Chrono and Budja while I'm at it: you guys care to explain how my push on VV is at odds with the rest of my playstyle?

Just wondering if it's a fact not fact thing or playstyle thing
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Post Post #417 (ISO) » Fri Aug 27, 2010 6:21 pm

Post by Thor665 »

FakeGod wrote:whoa dude I never said I don't like his playstyle.
Yeah, but when your case is broken down it is "you're anti-town because of the way you
play
" Taking away all the gloss and glamour you're tossing on it - you're voting him for playstyle disagreements (you feel his play hurts town). Though I am not a giant fan of VV's play I'm not sure I'm personally of the opinion that his play is not hurting town any more then I feel your play is hurting town - and neither of those beliefs is worth hanging a vote on.
FakeGod wrote:
jimfinn wrote:Encouraging the town to lynch VIs is very scummy play.
We all have our opinions.
::facepalm::

VI lynches happen Day 1 in Minis, that's how it's done. By Day 2 after a mislynch you don't have the luxury anymore. A case needs to be more then 'Gawrsh, he's VI' on Day 2. Even VI's do scummy things - find it or get back to scumhunting other people, but stop advancing this non-case.
FakeGod wrote:
Thor665 wrote:I dunno. Knee jerk reaction is this is too awkwardly obvious. Scum is going to go out of his way to defend this stance? Seem he's defending the stance because he's Newb and doesn't understand why it's scummy. That makes the heart of the "case" a newb tell, which is null, and not a scum tell. Thoughts?
I'm afraid I don't quite follow you.
For a man who supports the lynch of VI you're very much angling for that role from my perspective.

In short; the quoted commentary from me is an explanation of why I disagree with the case on you. I had been asked earlier by Budja ("I rest my case") to consider you as a viable vote since I'd just admitted that I found your play to be poor and potentially scummy. I then responded with the quoted commentary you're noting to explain why I disagreed with the case on you. Budja then agreed with me (and/or didn't like Chronopie's latest posts) since he shifted his vote over to the wagon I'm selling.

What's your read on Buttonmen?
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Post Post #418 (ISO) » Fri Aug 27, 2010 6:31 pm

Post by Narsis »

Chronopie wrote:Well that doesn't help :?

So I'll just have to contrast it one of your town games...

From Go Play in Traffic (complete)
FakeGod - Townie wrote:
kunkstar7 wrote: You find it weird that Fate changed his post style, but he seems more logical, so you are hesitant to follow him? Then you blatantly join the wagon just because Fate said so? Do you understand the reasoning behind the wagon?
Well, logic doesn't mean I should follow him. I play by inconsistency-tell, so when someone suddenly changes stance I get suspicious.

When I said logical, I didn't mean he was more convincing, but rather in a different style. It was a miscommunication. Don't worry about it.
This Quote just sticks out at me, because FG claims (as part of his town meta) to play by inconsistency-tell, yet commits inconstancies here.

VOTE: Fakegod
personally i'm not a huge fan of using meta to catch scum. so if that's your reasoning for voting him...looks a bit weak to me tbh.
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Post Post #419 (ISO) » Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:36 pm

Post by Chronopie »

Budja wrote:Did you read Fakegod yourself or just my attack?
Skimmed the last few pages of thread, and compared his iso in Traffic and this game.

--

I'm not a big fan of Meta myself, but We don't have any NA interactions / scum flips to draw info from.
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Post Post #420 (ISO) » Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:03 pm

Post by Budja »

@Thor, its a bit of both. Chrono's attack looks pretty much like its copy/pasted from my short attack.
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Post Post #421 (ISO) » Sat Aug 28, 2010 3:48 am

Post by TheButtonmen »

Back, catching up now.

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Post Post #422 (ISO) » Sat Aug 28, 2010 5:05 pm

Post by TheButtonmen »

@Thor:
A) At the moment Chrono however right now my reads are very much D2 centric as I desperately need to reread D1, I've lost track of things while I was gone so I'll get back to you tomorrow with a final answer.

@VV:
Do you think I am scum?

@Plum:
In regards to FakeGod scum after ISOing him he appears to be acting quite towny however this could be a perspective problem as he's buddying up to my views on a lot of things.

@Thor / Plum:
You both asked me about thoughts on FG so I'm being lazy and answering you both at once, I don't think he's scum, he's been playing in a very earnest and straight forward townie manner and though his recent posting in regards to the VV wagon really confuse me they actually make me more sure he is town.

One thing that I did notice during my read of today was:
Narsis wrote:
Chronopie wrote:Just saying Rolefishing is a Scum tell, doesn't help. As afaict it isn't much of one.

I know that I'm probably the antithesis of a good townie. And I know that I tend to Rolefish (sometimes inadvertently), ALOT. Alignment independent. Null tell.
if you are the antithesis of a good townie then what is the point of keeping you around? wouldn't it be better to kill you now then have you causing trouble later?
Narsis wrote:
FakeGod wrote:My conclusion at the end was: VV has done many anti-town things, but in order to do them he would have to be town. :?
so in that case wouldn't it be better to find and lynch scum?
I'm not liking the contradiction here.

More later after I've read D1.
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Post Post #423 (ISO) » Sat Aug 28, 2010 6:51 pm

Post by Plum »

THOR I have recently been revisiting a game I played fairly recently with Chrono-scum and in fact there are distinct similarities in the play. Excessive discussion of mechanics instead of scumhunting is rampant here as there in the early section of the game. I would not shed many tears over a Chrono lynch, sure, BUT we don't have much margin for error and we NEED more informations.

VV, TBM is not likely scum. I have a ad bad feeling you two are both Town having a catfight and frankly that's counterproductive.

FakeGod, VV's call for a Vimes claim is mitigated by the fact that he pretty clearly is entirely unfamiliar wit the flavor basis of this game (not recognizing who Nobby Nobbs was, for example). Many of your other points show that subjectively VV might have a poor grasp of theory (like calling for direct organization of the Town &c.) but points to no scum motivation specifically over theory disagreement. I find your case against VV uncompelling as an argument that he's scum. A LOT of extraneous points you put down (not showing respect for others in the game, not listening to the Mod's request for unvotes to avoid confusion - none of these are scumtells but all are brought up. Why? They seem to attempt to pile more incrimination on VV for things which clearly aren't remotely related to scumtells).

Although. I can't recall why I asked you who you'd prefer to be voting at the time of my post - I probably intended to link to a post of yours when you
weren't
voting. I'll try to recover that sometimes for us.

Narsis takes potshots and I wonder whether that wagon on him yesterday wasn't actually a doubleplus good idea.

THAT said I heavily dislike FG's attempts to lynch players he agrees are mostly anti-town and not mostly scummy. As ANNOYING as that is I'll take the higher road and start to doubt my earlier read on him . .. it's all going to bits and pieces . . .

CHRONO. VOTE NOW. WHY HAVE YOU LIKE NOT VOTED HALF THE GAME?

OH. YOU VOTED. GOOD. BUT. UM. WHAT ARE FG'S INCONSISTENCIES HERE? I'M SMELLING OPPORTUNISTIC SCUM WAGONING BY YOU.

TBM Narsis points are triple plus good. However. Am more feeling the Chrono wagon of late.

No one touched my question about who besides Chrono made EXTREMELY suspect votes on yesterday's KHG wagon. Because. I think it could be the antidote to the KHG mishaps yesterday. That is. A wagon which we can all pile onto real fast but this time actually net scum with it. ANY BITES, OR DOES NO ONE LIKE COOKIES AROUND HERE?

:(
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Post Post #424 (ISO) » Sat Aug 28, 2010 7:11 pm

Post by Thor665 »

Okay, I'm happier about Button now. This pleases me.

He does remind me of issues I have with Narsis. I still tend to think Chrono is the smarter lynch for today considering the activities yesterday.

@Button - last(first) time we played together in the without-a-doubt-fully-balanced Dr. Horrible Mini you struck me as more aggressive then you have been thus far this game. Thoughts?
Plum wrote:No one touched my question about who besides Chrono made EXTREMELY suspect votes on yesterday's KHG wagon. Because. I think it could be the antidote to the KHG mishaps yesterday. That is. A wagon which we can all pile onto real fast but this time actually net scum with it. ANY BITES, OR DOES NO ONE LIKE COOKIES AROUND HERE?
I considered trying - but it seemed really hard to do. Frankly I was just hoping you'd tell me and spare me the effort - I like to be told brilliant things so I can
claim them as my own
compliment the person who came up with them and cheer them on.

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