Mini 1039 Lost: Season One (Over)

[Dekes]

/confirm

[Dekes]

I want a name claim from dekes. It's important. Just a name claim.

What Faraseradayaphim said (is there a an option to abbreviate this without offending one of you?).

I watched every episode of Lost mutliple times and I cried on two occasions. So yeah, you could say, I'm somewhat interested in this show.

Vote: Amedisk

for never having watched Lost and yet thinking he'll be doing fine.

[Dekes]

EBWOP: Sorry, Ademisk, of course

[Dekes]

Good, RVS is already over.
But gee, vezo, you really are fucked now. I'm Claire Littleton.

Now I see two options:
a) Vezo really is a daycop getting fake results (with Boone being fail on the show, too) (more likely)
b) (I see what you did there by saying I'd probably have fake claim. Now the following seems like an OMGUS) He's not a daycop at all and in fact he himself is Ethan Rom and his fakeclaim is Boone Carlyle. And he was trying to give his story credit by his meta: "I had a day ability once and used it right away. I'm doing it again now so I must be telling the truth!)

Why do I say I think the first option is more likely though the second one would be a more sensible defense for me?
Because if he he really made up all of this then the instant I flip Claire (guaranteed), he's pretty much screwed.
Now let's make a quick Iso on vezo, shall we?

Dekes is scum. I called it here and now. I want credit for it.

This apparently happend after you got your "result" as mentioned in #76. But hey, you say you're sure I'm scum yet later on you state:

Dekes is Ethan Rom.

I forgot Ethan was a bad guy. I though he was the kid with the dog. I then checked the wiki now when I had time and remembered who Ethan is.

So how could you be sure if I was scum if you only got a name and you state later on you didn't know who Ethan was? Already caught in a lie, aren't we?

It's not like John has to be pr and Jack too and Sawyer too and all of that people. Also this is vanillaless if I remember correctly.

Huh? If the second point is true, the first point must be true as well. Contradictions, too?

Anyway, if vezo really is a daycop (albeit getting wrong results), chances are high he won't see the light of Day 2. So let's deal with the scummiest persons now.

Vote: BloodCovenent

Opportunistic scum is opportunistic. So is The Longing. Votes are interchangable. They aren't even trying to question vezo's validity or sanity. And TheLonging, I didn't ignore vezo, you can read my Iso, it's not that long.

However, if the rest of you town is willing to lynch me based on that dubious claim, let me at least give my role out there before you bring me to the noose.

[Dekes]

Whatever you say dekes. I follow a claim of you being ethan which makes sense as a scum role what else was i supposed to do, ignore it?

No, but you could question such a claim being made on page 3. Especially one with contradictions in it. On top of that he gets the most convinient result. Ethan is the

only

person in all of season 1 that can clearly be defined as evil (Smokey wasn't known at that point, the polar bear hardly counts and fake-bearded Tom only has a 5-minute appearance in S1). What a wonderful coincidence.

You may call me opportunistic but it was no way opportunistic. I am, believe it or not rather good at keeping track of thresholds and if someone were to come in and vote quickly I would have unvoted to let the day evolve so that you had time to claim or rebuttal. No doubt I do agree that occasionally the third or fourth vote on a player can be opportunistic. However scum-bloodcovenent would blindly jump on a wagon as the late voter with no reasoning.

Well, I don't happen to have your scummeta on me. All I saw was you jumping on a wagon as a late voter with no reasoning...owait?

Note that it doesn't make sense for Scum Vezo to so early give off a fake claim though. Because i would assume he knows that if you flip town, he will be ultimately hung tomorrow

Hence why I didn't vote vezo myself. I agree that I don't think vezo's incredibly stupid scum. But I have another theory coming up later in this post.

@HackerHuck
No, reasons, eh?
How about I didn't want to give away my role prematurely when I wasn't in imminent danger of being lynched (= L-1 and people threatening to hammer)?
Or how about people only wanted me to give out my name to test out vezo's claim?
And before you give me the crap I'm scum hinting at a PR but stalling with my full claim to come up with a proper fake claim. If this is indeed a vanillaless game, this tactic would make me not more valuable to town.

This is not a smear campaign or chainsaw defending. This is simply people being wary of an extremely sketchy claim early Day 1. No one said, I couldn't be scum and no one said vezo's claim has to be a lie. But blindly following such a claim instead of questioning it is imo rather done by scum than town.

And back to TL saying I was ignoring vezo. What would you call vezo's latest posts?
He's completely ignoring everything that's been directed at him and instead is giving an amazingly inaccurate description of Lost with the sole purpose of making Claire seem a good fake claim.
Why do you keep assuming that scum probably did get name fakeclaims? You seem to take it as a given fact. Do you have inside knowledge about this?

So, MoI's post gave me an idea. I thought about the day namecop getting wrong results and it wouldn't really work if he only gets the names. Would he get a different false name for every person? That would be hell of confusing. Or if he was - let's say - a paranoid cop, would he get only Ethan Rom as a result? That would be kind of boring.
So, I thought of the following option:
- Vezo, Ethan Rom, Lyncher gets the fake name claim Boone Carlyle (since he keeps bringing up there are likely mod-provided fake claims) and has the highly suspicious name Ethan Rom to frame his Lynchee, Claire Littleton, with.
Makes sense? In the context of the show (though Charlie would be a better analogy in terms of lynching, however, Claire is Ethan's main target after all) and in the context of this thread?

[Dekes]

First of all, thank you, vezo, for dropping the charade.
Secondly, there's a lot of truth in MoI's post

I'm not getting the greatest vibe from you at the moment, as it seems more like you want to tear other people's arguments down than actually make any of your own.
Since I'd like you to post some thoughts.

inb4 chainsaw defense, but wtf? He was spot on with the Lyncher analysis before vezo claimed and he's questioning the people who were blindly following that claim. I may be a bit biased here, because it lputs me in a good light, but after the shit that's been thrown at me, I think I deserve that. People considering lynching the lynchee nonetheless to "get rid of the distraction". Now if that isn't anti-town...Lyncher's win condition =/= Town's win condition and a Lyncher is not a pro-town role, he may be aligned to the town but he's working towards his own goal and doesn't care if it decreases town's chances of winning.
Now that that's out of the way, I would rather look at the people who hopped onto my wagon, because let's face it, whether scum knew there was a Lyncher involved or whatever, they know I'm town and the scenario would've provided a perfectly excusable townie lynch ("We had a dayname cop with Ethan Rom as a result. That's practically a guilty, what else was I supposed to do?").
I'm still looking at TL, BC now with HH as backup, because I maintain the assumption, that rather town would doubt such a claim, especially after the holes of Vezo's story had been pointed out. Scum would be more stubborn with an easy mislynch right in front of them.
I don't think all three of them are scum who took the bait, but I'm guessing at least one scum is among them. Now I don't like how BC declared HH town just like that. I've read a couple of games and apparently it's been done like that by the pros around here. But imo it leaves too much room for manipulation.
Btw, HH, why would you expect a cc to Vezo's claim? A dayname cop seemed like an arbitrary role made up especially to avoid being cc'd. I was thinking that even before Vezo fessed up.

[Dekes]

@vezo situation
Let's just hope for a vig out there.
Even when being offered a deal he's clearly not interested in helping town.

@Farasera
What make you believe Claire is a fake claim, when the Lyncher has confirmed me as being Claire?
But lynching them for this? What's up with that, dramonic?

I'd rather be interested in what BC, LL and HH have to say to the accusations brought up against them mostly by MoI. But it would be really helpful if people were additionaly voting them. It did help in getting a really decent post by jenni, didn't it?

[Dekes]

Just wanted to address the points in BC's post directed at me:

Dekes Response post the the claim.
-Really Half Ass
-Remotely scummy
-WHY? I'll tell you!
--He spends the majority of the post Rebutting to Vezo's claim and even finding holes in it.

Correct. What would you have done if someone had fakeclaimed a guilty on you? And the holes were pretty obvious, too.

Yet when it comes down to the point he votes Me and stands that his vote on me/TheLonging are interchangable. That we were opportunistic.

Correct. Are you asking me why I didn't vote vezo instead? I answered that. Because I didn't (and don't) think he's scum.

i don't question cop-like sanity issues unless there has been a problem. Like if

someone claimed a guilty on X and X flipped scum.

Freudian slip?

Here's your first problem. I follow claims. Yes there were holes, however they were from Vezo. You should have all fucking seen that coming since FaraSera's Policy vote/lynch post. Vezok is a poor player sometimes.

Wait a second? What are you trying to say here? If I'm not mistaken you're saying that because Vezo is a bad player we should expect and accept holes in his story when he claims cop. Are you serious?

Anyway, I will

Unvote

because I don't want to be part of a lynch if some exonerating info about/from BC comes up while I'm away.

@mod: V/LA until Monday

[Dekes]

Picked up my prod. Though I announced my V/LA until...pretty much now in the thread.

Just got back from my V/LA. Dead tired. I will have a catch-up post up by no later than 2 p.m. GMT +1 (which is 14 hours from now).

[Dekes]

My apologies. I was feeling lazy after work, hence the delay.

Well,
a lot of questions that arose during my read through were answered later on:

Ademisks continued pursuit of vezo's lynch: Even if he's not a confirmed lyncher (but I don't see how he couldn't be yet still managed to frame Claire as Ethan before I name claimed without any inside info), he's at least 99% confirmed not town and can be dealt with later. Not looking for (another) scum now is - as others mentioned before - only motivated by scum intent.
His other suspect, BC, has been cleared by dram for now. Ademisk said his claim is similar to and therefore equally questionable as vezo's, which is not true. BC has been cleared by another person and this is much more believable because few scum would link themselves with another person by a claim to save their buddy. If dram is lying then it can be found out and can be dealt with later.

Bottom line: Not really making an effort in scumhunting but going for targets that are very likely not going to be lynched anyways.

Dram's claim: Like many said, now he's painted a bullseye on himself as well as BC. I don't think dram would fake softclaim here, especially with how scummy BC has been playing so far. This should not be investigated further without any flip/NK info.

I don't get the suspicions for jenni though. She was passive at the beginning, but has picked up the pace (granted, after she has been prodded by others) and her posts didn't seem that useless at all. Strong stances, questioned her suspects, no vague infos. And no, I don't think I'm confusing long posts = town posts here, just because I tend to make fewer, but longer posts myself. Not on my scum list.

I'm awaiting AGar's and HH's posts including their suspects, since both (in AGar's case TheLonging) have been on my suspect list for a while now.

For now I will

Vote: HackerHuck

for reasons brought up earlier by others and myself.

[Dekes]

The non-voters need to vote. We are less than a week away from deadline and it's time for us to move towards lynch vicinity.

I hope, HH's second half results in a vote. His first post is definitely promising. I agree with you here, Jason has to be looked at closer. He's been flying under the radar for a while and his Iso's were too much IioA.

Dram hasn't posted in four days in this thread, yet is happily posting massively in other threads. Bad dram.
After a quick iso of him the only "useful" thing he's done was softclaiming to clear himself and BC, while he was trying to determine his suspects through PoE. Bad dram.

BC isn't helping his case. He voted jenni admitting only having skimmed her post. Then after a couple of questions were asked at him the only thing he's reacting to is a point to bring yet again his meta into play. And in his latest post he's whining about PBPA's by others.
Bottom line: No useful info for town whatsoever for quite a while now.

Ademisk's trying to appease to town too much. His FSDH Iso is rather pointless right now if it results in a townish read. And his suspects are still BC, dram and vezo, three people the majority is definitely not going to lynch. With that limited pool of suspects Ademisk is pretty much distancing himself from any possible lynch today.

Unvote; Vote: Ademisk

[Dekes]

EBWOP:

@mod

chesskid announced V/LA until 9/11 here.

Whoops.
And THAT is why you pay attention to V/LAs.

[Dekes]

Sorry, still here. But not much to add at the moment.

I'm still up for an Ademisk lynch. He's yet to engage in real scumhunting. His latest vote was Vezo over a week ago and he was busy defending himself and suspecting Vezo, BC and dram since then. Let's see what his next post brings.

BC, I'd like an updated suspect list from you. Your vote is still on chesskid, but apart from that you haven't really expressed any suspicions against someone in a long time.

You do realize I have the 4th highest post count in the game right now only topped by

Chesskid 61
Fara/Fara Hydra 41
Vez 40....

I hardly call that lurker scum.

So you would call yourself just regular scum?

[Dekes]

Too many linked roles shrouded in complete mistery. Can't shake the feeling there's scum in there, especially with how opaque all these softclaims are. Add to the fact that some of the people are still the scummiest persons in this game so far:
- BC is at the very least mentally absent from this game and has yet to add anything useful, for example the suspect list I requested
- Ademisk's claim. Well, I'm not surprised no one is taking their vote off of him. How are we supposed to believe you based solely on trust and nothing else?
And you have presented a case against AGar and it's two days before deadline and you still haven't voted anyone, wtf?

I'm keeping my vote on Ademisk until he gives me something to believe in his innocence or a better lynch candidate is presented (and wagoned) before deadline

@jenni
Who will you vote for?

[Dekes]

Sorry, missed your vote there.

And honestly, yeah, I wouldn't mind nightfall soon. It's pretty tough to look at who's scum and who's not with so many softclaims floating around. A couple of flips couldn't hurt and there's a lot to work through already when it comes to reviewing Day 1 w/ info from a lynch and a possible NK.

[Dekes]

Dekes. (were is

she

?)

For real?

I'm not willing to vote chesskid yet, since I have bigger suspects and because I didn't get a lot of bad vibes from him on D1. Obviously I agree that he definitely deserves the accusations for his fakehammer gambit, because it was at the very least a stupid move. Whether you intended to draw scum out with that move or not you put a claimed cop at risk and he eventually got killed. Not only was HH's caim the most believable of the later claims (though I did believe Jason's claim, too, to be honest), but you could've easily switched to Ademisk or someone else. Because the deadline wasn't that imminent that HH had to be lynched right then.

Because what else should I have said to fake-vote him? Also if Jack is mafia goon how is a flavor cop even remotely useful?

Well, we didn't know flavor was bastardized back then, did we? Or did you know something we didn't?

Anyway, I neither like your case on AGar nor his case on you. Feels like town vs. town to me.

Are you Lovers with BC but not alignment confirmed?

Good point. I was thinking something similar because I still have BC as one of my top suspects.

Dram, how about you start contributing to this game and stop avoiding questions starting with this one:
Based on how BC has been playing so far, do you believe he's town?

My other main suspect is still Ademisk. His nameclaim didn't really convince me that he was town back then and now that it's confirmed we have bastardized flavor (lol@Jack being scum, btw), I'm even more convinced of his guilt.
Jenni brings up a fair point in #444. It would indeed be unfair if scum knew a player's name and role beforehand. But if you look closer, he only claimed to know her role. He very well might have bluffed there to gain more credibility ("Of course I'm not outing role jenni's role here") or even try to draw out jenni's role there.

I'm undecided about jenni. I mostly get town vibes from here and I would believe a scenario where scum had a town player's name but not vice versa (I believe there's a role that does that, but I can't recall what it's called). Jenni being alive irks me though. I can see FSH being killed based on his play style so far, but Jenni openly claiming a dangerous PR not being killed? But eh, this is just pure WIFOM here.

With all of that said,

Vote: Ademisk

for the same reasons as yesterday.

[Dekes]

So, let me get this straight:
- chesskid is voting AGar because he wanted to vote the TL/AGar slot. He promised reasons but has failed to provide any.
- AGar is voting chesskid based solely on his fakehammer gambit.
- Since then, everything one person has been saying has been declared as completely scummy by the other.

...Yep, sounds like town vs. town to me. Still fail to see scumminess from either.

BC jumping on the imo weaker person in this debate doesn't surprise me at all.

@dram

I know you've got a lot of other games going on (I'm addicted to your Alphabet-mafia), but just skimming this thread to stay alive just isn't cut it. You've been asked questions and this time I bolded your name so that you actually notice it.
Your Iso isn't really helping you either. At the very least it shows your lack of interest into this game and it could be seen as scummily flying under the radar as well.
Again, based on his playstyle only, do you believe BC is town?

@jenni
Well, if we go for show flavor here, then Michael states several times that his only interest is getting his son off the island. He's not on best terms with a lot of the other survivors and the more the season progresses the more he distances himself from the other Losties except for the raft crew.
And again, Ademisk didn't prove your role. He only said he could prove your role. Scum have been caught lying in order to gain credibility before.

[Dekes]

@Dekes: Post 458. Your reasons for voting me were that my suspects were protected, and apparently suspecting them under such circumstances is bad. And yet you are guilty of suspecting me when I am under the same circumstances. Why so?

There's a lot wrong in here. It was decided by the majority of the town that the claimed linked persons should not be lynched unless we had more infos.
Now we do have more infos. We know for example that role names don't determine their alignment.
And I never said you no longer couldn't suspect those people who weren't to be lynched D1. I myself was suspicious of you and BC (and still am), but what you did was that you were still pursuing a lynch of vezo although it had been decided that he was not to be lynched D1, thus you were distancing yourself from any possible lynch.

And I’m no longer going to ignore Dekes as

Claire’s connection with Jack just might be a reason for Reck to have made her scum.

I thought I should address this before this bogus reason will ever be used against me. Beware, Season 3 Spoilers:

It wasn't revealed before midway through S3 that Claire is Jack's half-sister.

Chess, if AGar flipped scum, I'd be looking at you first. Just sayin'.

Of the two linked pairs (Adem - jenni, BC - dram) I definitely get a more scummy vibe from the latter one as a pair. Individually It's still Ademisk.

MoI, I'll definitely follow your VC analysis as it progresses throughout the game though town should not forget that if we go with this D1 VC analysis that you are a possible scum candidate, too. Basing on your playstyle there is absolutely nothing that would warrant me thinking you're scum, but I've been fooled by good scum before.
Despite all your analysis and your stating of your top suspects you still haven't laid down a vote. You aren't trying to manipulate your VC analysis by holding your vote back now, are you?

[Dekes]

EBWOP: Messed up the quote tags. The second quote is directly by MoI, not by dram.

[Dekes]

How about instead of spamming around you work on that case against AGar you promised pages ago.

I just skimmed your annyoingly long Iso and what I found was lot of spam, a lot of tooting your own horn and sulky comments if you don't wanna face accusations towards you.

There may be a case against AGar, but it's definitely nowhere to be found in your Iso. Not even a single reason. While I believe his case against you based only on that fakehammer gambit is pretty weak, but at least he has a case.

[Dekes]

This combined with the next quoted part is quite a disproportionate reaction. The point I was making is this – you got a pretty free ride Day 1 due to vezok’s lyncher play and your claim as Claire. Now that Jack, arguably THE main character of the show, has flipped scum you get no flavor based protect as Claire.

I beg to differ here. The game could've been over for me not five pages into D1 because people were following a questionable claim by a known VI. Not what I would call a free ride exactly. I had to claim my name in order to prove vezo's claim wrong. But I never considered myself to be unlynchable on D1 because I had claimed the name Claire. On the contrary, people were debating whether the lynchee could still be scum. But I weren't getting a lot of suspicion later on D1 although other "Unlynchables" like vezo or BC still were. I wonder why that is?

@Dekes: Well the thing, your vote on me today is "for the same reasons as yesterday". Your reasons yesterday was me being suspicious of the unlynchables. Therefore your point about having more info to base your vote on is moot.

That was one of the reasons. The others were your distancing from the lynch candidates and your dubious claim (not the name, but the circumstances surrounding it).

If you want a D2 update why I think you're scum, here we go.

It starts off with your catch-up post, which - for my taste - contained just a tad too many filler questions to make you look like a good, curious townie.
That post ends with a case against chesskid and a vote on him.
So, two pages into D2 in your first post you vote the person that you claim to be one of your top town reads D1. What happened to your supsects on D1: BC, dram, vezo and even AGar whom you made a case against late on D1?
Incidentally - and here it gets interesting -, besides AGar and yourself (and vezo's obligatory vote on me), chesskid was the only one with a vote on at that time. And he had the weaker position in that debate with AGar (BC, for example, sided with AGar).
Sure as hell could be looked at as you sacrificing your top town read (or even your scumbuddy, who knows?) to start an early counterwagon with all the suspicion you're still facing.

wth, you're playing like crap today. On D1 you were near the top of my towny list along with MoI. Now you are just not even trying. With posts like these you are not doing yourself any favors, and make me think more my vote is accurate.

This is irritating me. Feels like you weren't even that suspicious when you voted him back then (which would support the counterwagon theory) and now you're trying to strenghten your original vote.

Couple that with your continued vagueness about your knowledge of jenni's role:

If chess thinks the softclaim was BP and you (MoI) do not, what else could it be (rhetorical)?

Lol, if you know her role why do you want other people to guess? The fact that you added rhetorical makes it even worse.


Dram's and BC's behaviour surrounding their softclaim is unsatisfactory indeed. But it's fine for know, the longer they are alive the more questionable their claim becomes (inb4 WIFOM). I have a greater problem with the fact that they've been only addressing this matter lately and haven't been engaging into scumhunting for a while now (especially BC). I'd advise you to get on it and people will automatically drop the poking for your fullclaim.

[Dekes]

Well Dekes, regardless of what you add to your case now, the point stands that when you voted me you had nothing other than D1 stuff, which aside from Vezok was nothing.

You hadn't posted on D2 so I couldn't have included anything from D2 now, could I? The only thing I added was the info that Jack had flipped scum and so your nameclaim became void.
And I don't see the wrongness in continuing a case if new evidence comes up?

The questions I asked I stand by. Maybe the one I asked jenni could be considered superfluous, and even then I was trying to clarify how that role worked (lyncher gets fakeclaim, yes/no?). More importantly, my question about what the BP role is remains unanswered. You know it, Dekes, and you are using it to make a case on me, so why not explain? Coupled with your bad case on me earlier, and and you skewing the data against me (I ask superfluous questions, you don't help answer so they seem more superfluous), I wonder what you're up to. And why wouldn't I want to know what people derived from the softclaim? I could use their answer and see how well it matches to her softclaim, which could provide a lot of valuable information.

I saw more useless questions than that. Especially the ones directed at dram. "Why are you surprised I'm still alive?" Do you really expect an answer by dram that you couldn't have figured out yourself?
By no means did I include your ignorance of the role BP. And you can't really have tried hard to acquire the information. I searched the Wiki for "Beloved Princess" and this was the first and only page that popped up.
I'm rather interested in why you keep poking others for information about jenni's role if you claim to know that role? Because it could provide valuable information? Yeah, sure, if you actually don't know jenni's role I suppose it could.

Chess is playing objectively bad today. Sure he was pretty high on my town list but I consider today's events over yesterdays. I still view dram/BC to be scummier from yesterday, but chesskid has been climbing steadily up my chart, and if this pattern continues he will have well earned that vote by the end of the day. And just because I have my vote on him now does not mean I want him lynched today, period. For that matter, I am the only other vote on him. If he was higher up, I would have thought twice.

This is bad, really. Again, you imply you don't believe chesskid deserved your vote in the first place but you assume he will have "earned it by the end of the day". Then why did you vote him if he apparently didn't deserve it back then?

[Dekes]

I would post more frequently if there was more to address right now.

There's a lot of arguing between AGar and chesskid which, apart from a few points, is only cluttering the thread. It may become important again once we've seen one of the two flip.

Like I said, especially BC needs to address the Adem-situation and/or talk about his suspects plus reasons.

I just quick-Iso'd jenni. Boy, is she flying (at least under my) radar. Her last post is almost three days old, she hasn't expressed any suspicions at all on D2 and instead has only been answering to questions directed at her and continued trying to clear Adem. This makes me more wary of her wary of her than I originally was.
Jenni, who are your suspects and why?

@mod
V/LA for about 48 hours (until sunday morning)

[Dekes]

Also, it's pretty rich that you would call someone out for not posting much since your post about me not posting much basically starts with a reason you're not posting much.

Yet I've posted on a rather regular basis, have I not?
This is the second time we had to prod you to give us your thoughts. Not really in town's best interest.

Question:

Why paint it as though you have been wary about me all along, when you haven't been?

Intentional misrep? I said I wasn't that wary of you (meaning not wary enough to think you might not be town. I'm somewhat wary about everyone in every game, don't see anything wrong with that) up until that post.

Question:

Can you build a case on anyone that doesn't revolve around what others have already said about that person?

Hilarious. If you wanna accuse someone of not adding a reason or case to their vote don't look in my direction.
Because a reason on one of my votes was similar to yours then it's constant parroting by me?

@577
I obviously can't comment on why jason chose to ignore/defend me. I don't know how aware he is of his supposedly known scum meta and whether scum decided pre-game to bus/distance from each other and/or townies.
But I can comment on my lack of interaction with jason. I usually only concentrate on people that warrant my further investigation. You can look up all my games for that. I had basically no contact at all with FSH and they ended up town.

Dekes asserts that scum would be more likely to push his lynch through--but it's Jason, and not HH, who tried to stop it, so that theory is derailed right there. (While I've got this quote up here, in this quote, the last part (beginning with "BTW") could be rolefishing; why would a dayname cop be arbitrary or unlikely?)

Lots of nonsense. There's no possiblity jason intentionally distsanced from this theory (after I presented it, no less) to give him more town credit after my flip?
And it was HH who was looking for a CC for vezo's role not me. How am I rolefishing when I call him out on that?

In his ISO: Dekes holds people accountable for not questioning Vezo's sanity/claim; creates the "triumvirate" list of HH, TL, and BC. Votes BC; makes a case on HH; unvotes BC while V/LA "because I don't want to be part of a lynch if some exonerating info about/from BC comes up while I'm away" (and stain my hands with a mislynch?); votes HH in ISO 9 even though he spends most of ISO 9 discussing Adem and Dram; in ISO 10 says this:

I hope, HH's second half results in a vote. His first post is definitely promising. I agree with you here, Jason has to be looked at closer. He's been flying under the radar for a while and his Iso's were too much IioA. <snip stuff about Dram/BC> Ademisk's trying to appease to town too much. His FSDH Iso is rather pointless right now if it results in a townish read. And his suspects are still BC, dram and vezo, three people the majority is definitely not going to lynch. With that limited pool of suspects Ademisk is pretty much distancing himself from any possible lynch today.

Unvote; Vote: Ademisk

Hmmm. Calling for more investigation of Jason, then talking about Dram and BC before voting Adem.

How is any of that making me scum?
I have to keep my vote on somebody before going on V/LA to show my commitment to my vote? Even though at any given moment new info can arise that can clear or frame someone? Okay.
I can't talk about others before giving a reasoned vote? Okay.

Also, in this post, Dekes seems to imply that he is looking for good wagons, not scum.

I'm keeping my vote on Ademisk until he gives me something to believe in his innocence or a better lynch candidate is presented (and wagoned) before deadline

...
Deadline was getting closer and I had no intention of voting somebody else unless I was convinced to vote someone else.
Yeah, I'm only looking for wagons because I'm such a nasty wagon hopper.

@MoI
I'm of course a bit biased here. Normally I wouldn't mind a a vezo lynch. He obviously isn't interested in this site and it's too unreliable to have him around during L/MyLo. Only problem is like you said, we can't control the vig's/SK's kill and if they hit town it's MyLo despite the Lyncher lynch. We have more control over the lynch today and I'd rather take this chance trying to lynch scum to avoid MyLo.

@Adem
Being suspicious of you for the second half of D1 and the info that flavor is scrambled sure is enough for me to vote you. Is that why you stated again that you weigh today's events more than yesterday's? Because you want to weaken arguments that are aimed at your actions from yesterday?

There is absolutely no reason for you not to claim when people off the wagon threaten to hammer you. If you were town, would your role be more useful if you're dead taking your claim to the grave? Or would it be more useful to claim your role and thus you might have a chance to avoid this in your eyes mislynch?

[Dekes]

It wasn't just my vote; you phrased it so it looked like your original thoughts when it wasn't, and you didn't even acknowledge where it came from or try to make new points. (Your ISO 9 compared to my ISO 10-11--written several days before your case) Your other "cases" are also somewhat unoriginal.

In your case against Adem you said his pursuit for vezo's lynch was him aiming for the easy lynch. I on the other hand it as distancing from any possible lynch on D1. So while we both didn't like Adem's pursuit of vezo's lynch why would I acknowledge your post if my case aims in another direction?
"My other "cases" are also somewhat unoriginal"? Way to be precise here.

you only vote for who looks like the biggest wagon at the time: BC, HH, Adem.

Where do you come up with this stuff? I was the first person to vote BC and the second to vote HH after I expressed suspicions against them for a long time. And I'm still on the Ademisk wagon no matter how small or big it's been. Surely big tells of a wagon-hopper.

I think HH's flip proves he was doing nothing of the sort.

So you just fluffed up your case by trying to frame me for rolefishing when I was obviously not.

]It makes you scum because
a) you're setting it up to protect yourself no matter what wagon you end up on by basically naming almost everyone else as suspects;
b) if you thought HH's points on Jason merited a vote, why not vote him? Why vote Adem? You actually said you HOPE it results in a vote, and YOU DIDN'T VOTE HIM;
c) you removed your vote not out of fear new evidence would clear him and we would mislynch town, but because you wanted to be sure you wouldn't get tied to his mislynch by VCs in D2--there was no need to unvote him because if new evidence were presented, the rational townies on his wagon would have unvoted him and he wouldn't ahve been lynched, but you took an extra self-protective precaution;

a) Untrue. Just because there are certain aspects I don't like about people's posts doesn't mean I think they're scum. I'm questioning people on suspicious actions and so should everyone.
I never said I think either AGar or chesskidis scum. I simply said if AGar flipped scum I'd be looking at chesskid. Because I believe their argument looked like one of two people of the same alignment. And I'm leaning town and said so.
I never said dram is scum. I don't like his non-commitment to the game and the way he and BC are handling the softclaim. I said their claim becomes more unbelievable the longer they are alive. Doesn't make dram automatically appear on my scumlist.
b) Please, if you go so much into detail, read everything I say. Before that I said I wanted the non-voters to vote because deadline was drawing nearer and I thought they had to show their commitment on who to lynch. I was hoping for a vote in general by HH, not necessarily on jason. And I voted Adem because I found him scummier at that moment and I explained so.
c) Again, I was the one who started the wagon on BC and as you can see from my posts I still think BC is scum and would vote him if my vote wasn't on Adem. So you say I unvoted to distance from that wagon and manipulate the VC analysis?...Sure.

Why wait for someone else to convince you? Why even state that you would change your vote if someone else convinced you? You could have just said, I think he's scum and I'm sticking to it. More fence-sitting.

Is that why my vote is still on Adem?

This is classic tunneling right here where literally everything I say or do is painted as being scummy (talking about 2-3 people, then voting for a 4th person...that I also address in this post and give reasons for voting him; unvoting before going on V/LA; non-existant wagon-hopping).

[Dekes]

I'm not responding to jenni's WoT with another WoT because there's been enough cluttering already. I've presented my standpoint, she's presented hers (several times).

Just a few notes about her latest post:
- HH was Flavor Cop, not Day Namecop which is slightly different and I haven't come across the latter one during my search in this forum and the Wiki.
- Your statement that I wanted to vote chess after calling him town is false.
- I use parentheses all the times in all my games. It doesn't make the statement within the parentheses more or less important, it's just something I do. You could've noticed this in the Castlevania game we played together.

@AGar
If you believe in a jenni/chess scum team, how do you think about Adem's claim? Do you think a non-scum was given the name and role of scum pre-game?

[Dekes]

Awaiting flip.

MoI, the only people that gave me a lot of heat were jenni with her textbook tunneling and you picking up on one point of her case. I said jason needed more attention, true. Yet I sadly continued to skim his posts because I was focusing on HH, BC and Ademisk on D1. That jason flipped scum is only indicative of my improvable scumhunting abilities. I ignored scum as town before and I most likely will do it again.

There is absolutely no reason at all that Adem didn't vote in his giant catch up/defence posts. You were suspicious of dram and me, yet you didn't vote either. Didn't you wanna look like scum trying to hop on the only other wagon (me) to avoid your lynch in the hopes your claim would be enough for people to unvote you? Even that wouldn't make a lot of sense.

[Dekes]

also if I were going to fakeclaim why would I fake two guilties seriously huh?

Because so that you can set up my mislynch tomorrow by gaining credibility by sacrificing your buddy today.

I'm doubting neither your name nor your role. But a scum tracker is all but unheard of.

And the fact that you got caught lying in your tracker results and BC is pretty much confirmed town and vezo is lyncher that leaves you and AGar as scum.

But, seriously, BC, wtf would you kill off your vig partner if that's what happened last night!?

vote:chesskid3

AGar tomorrow.

[Dekes]

Lol. I believe neither your results.

[Dekes]

o_O? Is it?

Seriously, did BC kill you last night? Did he think you might be a scum/town vig team?

[Dekes]

Err, wait a sec. I'd rather wait for Reck before going into post-game discussion...

[Dekes]

I'm curious: Why was BC able to kill you if AGar supposedly jk'd you? I always thought jk-ing would work as both block and protection?

[Dekes]

I TOLD YOU DEKES WAS SCUM.
I CALLED ON PAGE 1.

Lol, that makes the win even sweeter

nah man scum should thank BC for winning

^This.

Honestly, there's no way we should've won this thing after N1 and how we (had to) play(ed) after that. It was miracolous that we pushed the Ademisk lynch through. We were already grasping at straws and realizing this thing's over for us in the QT (it's in the role pm for anyone who's interested).

But we couldn't have wished for a more beautiful N4. BC killing off dram. Chess tracking AGar, so that BC got the impression that chess lied about his tracking results, simply perfect. But I will never understand how AGar wasn't an automatic lynch after his hammer on D2.

I'm impressed by chess who went from noisemaker and our main lynch target to the most obvtown by the end of D2.

When I read through the dead QT I was expecting mostly "Yep, Dekes and AGar fo' sho'. Town's got this one in the bag!". I'm surprised by how much suspicions MoI received. He was imo unlynchable in this game.

Overall, I'd say this deserves a scummie nomination for most outstanding, overwhelming scum perfomance by jason, AGar, me and BC....no? >_>

The modding by Reck was great. Flavor was awesome, mod presence was perfect. But lol@the setup supposed to be non bastardized. A town nurse for a mafia doc, who turned out to be useless even if he had lived longer? Two limited vigs who weren't alignment confirmed and didn't know their kill was strongman? Those are not basic roles and it's at least borderline bastardly
But it's all good, it provided a fun, very swingy game.

I'm definitely /pre-in for S2.

And since you so shamelessy advertised the dram's and your OoT-game in this thread, I thought I'd show my interest in that one, too
How soon can we expect this one to roll?
What are the /inning requirements? And more importantly, how much experience would you advise to join this game?