Scummies Invitational (OVER!!!)

[mykonian]

Good luck to everyone. I have a brief survey I'd like you to fill out;

1. Have you played in a Lights Out game before?
2. I give you $200 to place a bet on the first Day 1 lynch, with return odds of 15/1 for each player. Who do you bet on?
3. What do you think is the optimum number of lynches for Day 1?
4. What is your favourite animal?
5. Sum up your playstyle in one sentence.

Hi, I found the game. Posting as I read.

1. No, this is a first time. I'll leave the theory to the rest.
2. I'd split the money over Empking and myself. I know that we had our share of D1 lynches in the past. This might be true for someone else in this game, but then I'm not aware of it.
3. Lets see. D1 lynches have the name to be often incorrect. Further, I'd expect town to have at least an even amount of nightabilities (scum have a kill and maybe 1 or 2 active abilities.Without a doc which doesn't give us extra information unless he protects, we might do better earlier. This is because the town loses it's abilities as soon as they lose the player, but at least one scum power stay's till the last man: the kill.

The extra information generated by the first day lynch, the nightactions, and the discussion during day 2 should result in a longer day, I think.
4. It was a whale. I longer know now.
5. usually too active.

[mykonian]

Ojanen, Kinetic and mykonian were the favourites. You were going to conform because you're a submissive little butterfly. I don't believe the stance you are taking against me is genuine - it feels like a contrived act to assert dominance. Why didn't you want to do my survey?

Hoopla quite obviously doesn't know how I play or what my preferences for a game are. I'm quite disappointed.

5. Sum up your playstyle in one sentence. I find myself not sticking to one singular playstyle.

Hi, you are scum, aren't you?

That said Volk you raise some interesting points and then follow up with a throwaway vote? What up

None of the points I raised in relation to Hoopla resulted in me having suspicion such as might justify a serious early vote (at least until Hoopla answers my question), so I figured I may as well RV as normal. (I don't like RVS, but it's the worst way of starting a game except for all the others, and

sometimes

it works as a springboard.)

Now you are talking yourself into it.

You dislike RVS
Hoopla clearly creates a way to escape RVS
You

comment

on it.

and random vote anyway? Esspecially the incredibily effective (and discussion generating) OMGUS random vote!

Contrary to Hoopla, I dislike Q21's vote on Empking. Going for the likeliest target before he has posted and on page 2 is hardly protown. This is not daring, this might be creating a selffulfilled prophecy.

In other news, populartajo is pretty obviously town.

Explain, pls. THX.

no, we dn't play tht way arnd.

You aren't arguing why someone is town day 1. And unless you have good reason to doubt tajo right now, you'd better look for a different player in stead of "doubting" hoopla's read, which accomplishes nothing.

Or you are just scum who is "discussing" but does so in a for him harmless way.

[mykonian]

Myko is obvtown.

You want to bet?

God that was a silly joke.

More to the point: why are you posting oneliners. Bored, or trying to look typical annoying town?

[mykonian]

5. Sum up your playstyle in one sentence. I find myself not sticking to one singular playstyle.

Hi, you are scum, aren't you?

Yes I am <.<

Sarcasm. On the question "are you scum", this is considered a minor scumtell, right?

(Seriously now, I really am not consistent with my play. I'd consider myself aggressive but the game that we won the scummie for I was pretty much a lurker. In the last game we had, I got lynched as a lurker scum, but I also won my very first mafia game in Spies by being aggressive.)

Lol, you just didn't get the question.

Tenchi, as far as I know, you aren't an impressive scumhunter and you get into trouble early for theory stances. You generally stand out, and that is a dangerous position to be in at the start of the game. Now, the only way you don't get lynched early in the game is either to lurk there, or to bluff your way out by being aggressive.

Also, SpyreX, I am usually more paranoid then most. Therefore, I do not just clear people just because you say so. Also, I am wary of scum getting some brownie points just because they "figured out" that somebody is town. So... reasons?

And the most effective way of dealing with this is

asking why that person must be town?

Now your explanation on your PopT read? Right now, I am assuming all this declarations (you and Spyrex, maybe more?) are from meta reads which I am strongly distasteful about.

There are no reads without reference.

Tajo, I may end up voting Hoopla after we lynch Vollkan just so ya know.

Assuming a vollkan lynch. Excusing for a vote to Tajo. "I may end up voting".

you are joking here, right?

[mykonian]

Something makes me dislike Q21's post. It can't be logic, for I have been near braindead for a few hours and I am really tired right now.

So it must be something in the tone or intention of the previous post that sets me off (gut. Hi vollkan).

Now I think of it, none of his questions actually have any intentions of finding scum. The first is almost a rhetorical question, and even if it wasn't, it's answer won't give anything but bickering. The second question is asking how effective and strong Ojanen is as town. Now I have no idea why town would want to know this, for it gives very little information if that person is scum. I do know why scum would want to know this. It would give them better information for a nightkill, and focuses discussion on the town part of the game.


Disclaimer. I know my posts can get very hard to read when I'm tired in any way. If anything is unclear, please post what you don't understand and I'll try to explain it tomorrow.

[mykonian]

contrary to Tenchi, on this moment I think I believe Ojanen. I have seen at least one of Ojanen's playstyles, but that wouldn't give him a scummy.

wait. Tenchi. The guy who said his playstyle was always changing. Why not him? Bandwagon already too big?

[mykonian]

caught up/checking in.

I dont see anything that has my hackles up yet, even with all the theory discussion and D1 finger pointing. Until I get said hackles going, anyone have questions about my stances on anyone or cases being made??? Have a vote on someone, but no case?...maybe this is a good time to do it and try to convince to vote for your man.

I'm not playing with you. I'm not going to ask questions when you are in the game without

any

will to do

anything

.

How many people are in favor of a policy lynch? Chances are just as good that CKD is scum, and we he isn't going to hunt for scum, so as town he'll just hold us back.

[mykonian]

Here we go. I get to call myself town because CKD says I'm not scumhunting (someway we are only talking about "why someone is town". Can we, after this, please get back to talking about why people are scum?)

First, we have my catch up post (52). I didn't know at first that the game had started, and didn't know where it would be so it took a bit of time. Hoopla had insured something was happening already, so there was something to talk about.


The person my first points were about was tenchi, who didn't want to talk about his playstyle, and "doubted" hoopla's townread on tajo (which is discussing the wrong way around, favorable to scum).
Further, vollkan's random vote was odd, knowing that Vollkan doesn't like the RVS stage and wants to get out as fast as possible. He could have, by reacting in any way to hoopla's survey.
The third player and second on my scumlist, q21 made the one vote that I disliked. Empking. If we want to lynch him, we'll get there, but this way was plain wrong.

Then, we have KMD's playstyle. I'm still trying to figure out what it means, since the last time I met him he seemed to have different opinions about the game.

we have a re-statement of my points against tenchi (since he didn't seem to think them that scummy), and a post by q21 that didn't show any intention of finding scum.

I find it rather insulting you accuse me of not scumhunting.

And the last post, about you. You show a reactive playstyle, and absolutely no intention of playing this game ("convince me of voting someone", "I have no stances currently, but you can ask about them if you want to know about them") I hate such people and I'd rather policylynch you then having to read such a post every two days. Wait. You know something better? I'll make a case on you

[mykonian]

1.) no
2.) Empking (for the record, I asked to not be placed in a game with him, so I am not sure how we ended up in the same game)
3.) dont know, think my answer might change as the day continues, but will guess 2-3.
4.) muppet
5.) passionate to the point of anger

Relevant for 5.) Later in the game, we'll see that CKD can hardly be called passionate. He is rather lazy.

was excited for a bit, thought DGB was in the game,

also

vote vollkan

respect yo

Do Ojanen, Empking, Kinetic know where this game is?

also,

unvote vollkan

, seems that mine is the only not serious vote on the boy. Not sure why the wagon started, but I am not feeling it, for pressure purposes, going to be gone mokst of the weekend (I think) and I hate having unintended votes (that I am not sure of).

Not getting anything to sink my teeth into...yet.

Something is happening on the vollkan wagon. CKD doesn't really understand why or how. In stead of trying to find out why vollkan gets voted, and seeing for himself if those reasons are valid, he says that there is nothing investigate... yet.

this is a clear contradiction, and this post makes no sense, unless you employ lurking as a strategy.

caught up/checking in.

I dont see anything that has my hackles up yet, even with all the theory discussion and D1 finger pointing. Until I get said hackles going, anyone have questions about my stances on anyone or cases being made??? Have a vote on someone, but no case?...maybe this is a good time to do it and try to convince to vote for your man.

It is clear CKD intents to play a reactive game. This post contains no new information, but states that he wants everybody else 1. to fight for his vote, and 2. ask him about his stances on anyone (this while his "hackles aren't up") and him having shown absolutely no stances on anyone till then.

Now, if CKD was town, on this moment he'd try to form an opinion of himself (not asking others to convince him), and develop stances that way. Being a good towny, he would help the town by discussing how he came to those stances.

But we see nothing of all that here. The only reason why he'd post this, would be because as scum, he doesn't really have to form stances on anyone, and he'd only have to be "convinced" to vote a towny. Further lurking would remove most of the threat town is to him. We have a lurking scum here.

vote CKD

[mykonian]

guys, before we lynch anyone, please let them post... (Q21, Kinetic)

[mykonian]

guys, before we lynch anyone, please let them post... (Q21, Kinetic)

What?

sorry, I forgot about Empkings post.

Kinetic, all right.
Just two more questions today: what was your motive in telling me now what you would use catch me later if I was scum?
and: does this line of thinking apply to mykonian vs. ckd in one way or another in your opinion?

would you mind if I answered the last question? (if it is your point to show I'm not playing "fair")

[mykonian]

In that case I'll leave it

I do agree with you though. As scum you can't really get away with a lot of overreaching. This has a reason, as overreaching very quickly makes the discussion a mess, and town really doesn't want that.

[mykonian]

That said Volk you raise some interesting points and then follow up with a throwaway vote? What up

None of the points I raised in relation to Hoopla resulted in me having suspicion such as might justify a serious early vote (at least until Hoopla answers my question), so I figured I may as well RV as normal. (I don't like RVS, but it's the worst way of starting a game except for all the others, and

sometimes

it works as a springboard.)

Now you are talking yourself into it.

You dislike RVS
Hoopla clearly creates a way to escape RVS
You

comment

on it.

and random vote anyway? Esspecially the incredibily effective (and discussion generating) OMGUS random vote!

I can't see your point at all.

You seem to be assuming, without any apparent basis, that because I commented on something non-RV-related, it thereby became illegitimate to RV. But, at a point in time when I hadn't any actual suspicion formed and when there was nothing preventing me from RVing (ie. Hoopla's survey occurring was not incompatible with RVS also occuring), it was perfectly legitimate for me to RV as well as engage with Hoopla's survey. Sure, my RV will be (and, in hindsight,

was

since RV stage has now passed,

Unvote

, ) ineffective, but you've failed to explain at all why that is relevant.

Or, to condense everything down into a simple question: In one sentence, what did I do that was scummy?

You stated you didn't like random votes. (see above), but still you

chose

to random vote. Can't be because you liked them, so you would have to have a reason for that.

Now, as towny I can't understand that reason. As scum this would gain you another post without any new information (this being the second you gained with it).

Could you give me another reason why a towny that dislikes random voting would random vote while there were alternatives?

[mykonian]

sorry, forgot to add this:

Myko:

However, can you give me the short and sweet on Tenchi and your thoughts that way? Tenchi CKD twofer? Mmmm

What I told you already. I haven't got any news (you'll get it if I find it), and on this moment Tenchi is on the scummy side of the game. On this moment I haven't yet made a ranking or something like that. Mostly I'm making some cases where I can, get some discussion going and review what I did later this day.

So basically, I have to answer your question with: "no"

[mykonian]

unvote vote Q21

[mykonian]

damn, q21 left already.

The most important point to make about Q21's post is:

that is not the way to make a "test vote" to see how someone reacts. You want to keep them guessing about the reason, and you certainly don't want them to know it is a test vote. Q21 was way to cautious.

To react on Incog: Q21 is clearly testing if Tajo can actually stick with his statement that he considers everybody who votes for me or hoopla scummy. Now, this is of course a very bold statement, but you'd have to ask what good would come from doubting this. Q21, in this case, isn't scumhunting, he is trying to argue that someone elses reads aren't that definate. This is an easy statement to make, since nothing is that clear in mafia, and certainly not on page 6. Q21 could have used his time better with getting some reads of his own.

unvote vote CKD

[mykonian]

Actually, Myk, that post wasn't to test pop's response. You're right, if it was I did it badly - completely gave the game away. It was to test yours. I had a slight scum read on you for the ckd case that I disagree with (as stated with my vote) and was looking for a way to either strengthen or weaken that.

The knee-jerk OMGUS vote strengthens it.

This post by q21 is scummy.
The description of mykonian's instant no explanation vote as knee-jerk omgus assumes mykonian to be an idiot barely able to control his actions at all. That is not an accurate nor a townish assumption. mykonian was obviously looking for a reaction in a way that has some chance of having effect, (or pretending to do so if he was scum), contrary to q21's "hi this vote is because I want to see a reaction" (whether he would have been looking for a reaction from tajo or myko, saying that one is looking for a reaction pretty much collapses the wave).
Labeling the reaction as knee-jerk omgus is hitting an easy buzzword that only someone thinking of the game very shallowly would use in this instance. I find it hard to believe q21 is sincere about scumhunting here.

unvote
vote: q21

QFT.

Esspecially since I explained my vote in the next post and went back to my original case.

Q21 reaction (OMGUS!) is twisting what was going on, assumes I'm a fool (while he knows I'm not: he was the one nominating me for this scummy) etc. It makes no sense. Unless you are scum and you hope the word "OMGUS" is going to convince people.

unvote vote Q21

[mykonian]

provoking reasons is ok. Just don't be cautious about them (which is scummy).

Further, screaming "OMGUS" had nothing to do with taking risks. It never does, as you are leaning on a Wiki-tell that has completely no use in this game (as we all know about it). It had a lot to do with not reading properly, as my next post already showed it wasn't even

near

omgus. It was my annoyance with his way to cautiously "test-vote".

He tried to abuse this annoyance by simplyfying it into an "omgus" vote, which it wasn't. Q21 is scum.

[mykonian]

When I say this, keep in mind that I'm probably the biggest Nazi around in terms of requiring reasons with votes: it was perfectly acceptable for Myk to vote without reasons. You cast what was a terrible vote for him, vague and apparently largely predicated on somebody else being scum. Your vote was self-evidently bad, to the point that that turning around to attack Myk for OMGUSing is frankly just silly.

This may all be true, but was not the whole reason for the vote. I posted what I know as a test vote (which is more likely to get results). I had the hope Q21 would still be online and I could use his answer to show how his "test vote" was a rather bad way of doing it.

When Q21 evidentaly logged off, I made a post which said what I intended to say. I went back to my original case and voted CKD.


And then Q21 chose to react to my example of a "test vote" anyway, without caring about what I posted next. I guess he saw a better opportunity there with me then with Tajo.

[mykonian]

I wouldn't worry about Empking too much. I'm quite confident in my reads on him.

Have you never played with Vollkan before, Kinetic? Anyway, if I had to gamble here, I'd think he is scum. I would expect him to be more "important" in the game (sorry, can't find the right english word.) Esspecially with the recent activity, there was every room for Vollkan to make his points, to scumhunt, and for some reason, he didn't.

[mykonian]

139, Mykon states he thinks q21 is scum hunting (either?) but returns his vote on me.
@mykon, at this point, if you feel like q21 isnt scum hunting, why do you return you vote to me? Did the size of my wagon versus q21 have anything to do with it?

147, uh, Mykon replaces vote on q21 AFTER oj votes him. (noted)

CKD, I get the feeling you start tunneling. Anyway, between my revote of you and my vote of Q21 I was asleep. I would have voted Q21 as soon as he came with that OMGUS-case.

Further, 139 contains a typo, right? I haven't really been talking there about scum hunting, I have stated that Q21's way of making a test vote was too cautious (and therefore lost most of it's possible effect)



My last scumgame I replaced into and I only had to play that for the last 2 days without a lot of problems. I don't think that will help you a lot. The one before was teleportation mafia

Further, in general, you seem to dislike that I post some of my arguments against people as soon as I think of them (pretty much every "myko puts out feelers"-post), or am I misreading that?

[mykonian]

I think I missed something...

How many people are in favor of a policy lynch? Chances are just as good that CKD is scum, and we he isn't going to hunt for scum, so as town he'll just hold us back.

Wait a sec, are you negotiating with everyone for the lynch of somebody? Is your pursuance of the CKD case dependent on what everybody else thinks?

FoS: Mykonian

130, woah, tenchi comes out of no where and also expresses interests in my wagon (if need be).
@ tenchi, be a dear, and 1.) explain why my playstyle is reactive I was on page 4 asking for people to explain to me their cases, which reminds me, on page 4, you had a case on vollkan 2.) if you really thought vollkan was scum, why did you reiterate your case at that time? 3.) lets just have a little play time right now, lets say I was being reactive, how is that scummy? Wouldn’t it have been easier as scum to rehash someone else’s case add a couple lines and vote? (that’s reactive)..I actually think my asking people to put forward their cases again is proactive.

1a. THIS IS REALLY REACTIVE

caught up/checking in.

I dont see anything that has my hackles up yet, even with all the theory discussion and D1 finger pointing. Until I get said hackles going, anyone have questions about my stances on anyone or cases being made???

It apprars that you are waiting for people to call you attention, or you are waiting for other people to make cases on other people so that you can react on them later on. In other words, you have no plan to initiate discussion yourself.

1b/2. IF YOU WERE REALLY READING THE THREAD. It is clear, along with Incognitos and Hooplas reactions on me that I didn't have a case on Vollkan.

3. Again, being reactive is scummy because scum would rely on the initial naivety of town since they do not know who's who, allowing town to make blind, and wild suspicions. It would be advantageous for scum to avoid this D1 mess.
You asking people to participate is nowhere being proactive. I can put banners and posters to encourage people to post but unless you start asking questions and suspecting people, that can only take you so far.

First you attack me, and then you continue

the same

case on CKD that his playstyle is reactive. That is not the way it works, Tenchi. You act like you don't have an idea what you are doing.

Further, Meta is good. General tells are bad. Meta (whether you take this as playstyle or mental capabilities) is individual, and by definition more likely to be accurate. Voting people just for using meta is newbyish and counterproductive. Get a real case.

[mykonian]

@Imaginality, just to make your work easier. I've heard that I seem to be touchy/cautious etc. more often. If this is observed, it is usually on day one. Accusations against me don't seem that serious to you, and I seem to overreact on them. The reason mostly is that it hasn't been uncommon that I got lynched day 1 by people all voting me for different little reasons. I'd rather seem a little cautious then let that happen here. (see also my answer at Hoopla's question)

Activity is not a towntell for me.

[mykonian]

Vollkan makes a good point: in a game with this kind of players, we shouldn't be distracted by the one or two weird players we have. We should lynch scum. If Empking is scum, we'll lynch him. If he isn't, we'll keep him. No need to make the game easier for scum by lynching people who we think to be likely town.

With the amount of support for a Q21 lynch, if nothing changes after this prod (remember me, Q21, didn't you lurk too in our game when you got under pressure?), I think we should lynch him. There is no need waiting for the deadline, as we can discuss after the lynch. Further, this frees the game up for discussion about the amount of lynches, wagon analysis (without one person already killed) etc. I think that if Q21 can't convince us now we are completely wrong, he won't ever. Better get it done then in stead of letting the game drag out. There is no penalty, as we aren't shortening the day.

[mykonian]

Why don't you agree with the SpyreX hate? What's he done that's town-ish?

I'm not sure you are town either. Should I vote you?

[mykonian]

Ooooooooh let's make a loop! I'm not sure you are town either. Should I vote you too?

What's scummy about me, mykonian?

Suddenly you are asking the right question. Why do people have to prove Spyrex is town?

And sorry Hoopla, but I would hate letting Q21 get away with his play today, and I haven't seen a better lynch. His lurking now does help him, people are losing interest, but I think he is the lynch today. Tomorrow we can look at the others.

[mykonian]

unvote vote vollkan

Sorry Q21. That post was made to get a lynch soon (though it asked for you to post something to change things, like a claim, well before deadline), but I don't want to lynch you now. The role would make sense, I think, as the mod can't really determine how many nights there are, and a 2 shot vig gives him some control over that.

it is quite late now, and the above vote is purely gut, but my vote is certainly not going to support a lynch on: spyrex, empking, tenchi.

[mykonian]

people who I could vote: Vollkan, Incognito, CKD. Not in any particular order. On CKD it is my points against him from some time ago, and there is a post coming (2 hours from now, I hope) which explains why the other two might be possible lynch candidates. I have no idea's about imaginality, but I don't see a spyrex-lynch working right now.

[mykonian]

a vollkan lynch is never going to happen, this way.

---

My problems with vollkan and incog are in a way similar. I feel they are making it themselves too easy, and they would be capable of better scumhunting.

vollkan starts slow, with some questions about the questions Hoopla asked, a random vote, and some theory talk about that. (iso 0, 2, 3 and 5). iso 2 is an example of using a question to defend one self against an accusation and basically not saying anything with it. We see this repeated in iso 4:

I can't see your point at all.

You seem to be assuming, without any apparent basis, that because I commented on something non-RV-related, it thereby became illegitimate to RV. But, at a point in time when I hadn't any actual suspicion formed and when there was nothing preventing me from RVing (ie. Hoopla's survey occurring was not incompatible with RVS also occuring), it was perfectly legitimate for me to RV as well as engage with Hoopla's survey. Sure, my RV will be (and, in hindsight, was since RV stage has now passed, Unvote, ) ineffective, but you've failed to explain at all why that is relevant.

Or, to condense everything down into a simple question: In one sentence, what did I do that was scummy?

the question used to stall and defend.

The keyword in this quote is "legitimate". Vollkan cares about if he

should be allowed to do

, not if it makes sense, or if it helps town forward.


In iso 5 we have a lot of defense, and Vollkan his first "scumhunting", when he votes Kinetic (for quoting a part of a post):

and here vollkan stops

. He never goes off Kinetic, never looks

at anyone else

. With post 7, vollkan shows what he is capable off, as he goes all out on Kinetic's "policy lynch-strategy". This is EASY. Everybody has been taught policy lynches are bad, and vollkan simply makes a wall of text about it.

---

Conclusion

: Vollkan takes the easy way. He seems to be scumhunting, but only attacks Kinetic, and writes out a single point to a wall of text: it seems he is doing a lot, but he isn't.

Kinetic is town, and the victim of scum needing to make a case. His policy lynch- strategy wasn't clever, but mostly made him an easy target.


Next post: incognito.

[mykonian]

since incog is smart, I don't think we gain a lot of information from his reaction to hoopla's survey.

after a large gap (from page 2 to 6), Incog comes back with his biggest post.

TBH, I was also surprised Incognito was the first nonconformist. For some reason, I think he is not an agressive guy, have we played together before?. Incog, would you define your town playstyle as agressive?

Yep.

I'm much more passive as scum.

You might remember us playing together way back in Mini 594 - Portal Mafia.

Hoopla, I think you're just mad because you have the hots for me, and I didn't kindly answer your little questionairre like you wanted me to. I had two options when I came into this game:

1)

comply like the other three or so people who complied with your questionairre before me (

if I was scum, I would have totally done this making sure my answers are nice and neat and pristine and SO town-ish

) or

2)

do something really cool that'll really kick the game off like not complying. I chose the latter option because I thought it would be more fun and would bring out more alignment-revealing information than just complying like everyone else.

unvote, vote: SpyreX

This doesn't leave Kinetic off the hook, but I'm not liking post 211 at all. SpyreX, what's so bad about two people agreeing with one another? What about those quotes makes you dislike Slicey?


Seriously, my "who I would lynch" Today list is beginning to look something like this:

Kinetic
SpyreX
populartajo

Tajo's more a gut thing right now; I'm having real trouble believing that he thinks my reaction to Hoopla's questionairre was unnatural.

I mean, DGB who isn't even in this game commented on it and seemed to lean town on me because of it.

I really think a tajo-town would've shared a similar thought process to DGB for some reason. Plus he's way too lurky here for my taste.

This when he stated earlier that pop's reads and his were suprisingly similar. I know this is not accepted as a tell, but Incogs thinking completely goes against who I (and on that moment, many) think should get lynched. No Q21, no Tenchi, no Empking, etc. Further, Spyrex is quite towny and Kinetic is a town-read of mine, which leaves me to think Incog is scum here.

The bolded is the three times Incog "assures" us he is town.

Then we get some stuff about the wagon on Q21. This is of course incredibily funny for scum if they are not on the wagon, or only in small numbers. The case on Q21 wasn't bad, and I wouldn't be surprised if townies were on him. But incog suspects

the last four on the wagon

and actually doesn't care who of those gets lynched.

If we do go by this:

q21 (7) -- Ojanen, mykonian, Empking, populartajo, imaginality, Kinetic, SpyreX

I'm against lynching Ojanen and mykonian. Empking's a meh. The final four, though, are pretty much interchangeable to me.

As a conclusion: During this game, several people (Hoopla, Ojanen) who have been questioning Incog's scumreads have gotten the standard answer "why are they town?", and Incog staying with his reads. Nothing changes, while his reads are percieved to be weird.

If people want, I have a point where I would seriously doubt Spyrex would be scum, and I could post that. In any case, I'm not going onto the Spyrex lynch, and with the little enthousiasm for Vollkan: VOTE: incognito

[mykonian]

Btw, mykonian, your case sucks monkey balls. Because I don't agree with yours, Ojanen's, and Hoopla's reads, I'm scum? Who the fuck made you king?

I'm town. You disagree with me, this makes you more likely scum. I think Ojanen, Hoopla, Spyrex, Kinetic are all town. You disagree with them. This makes you even more likely scum.

Don't Panic. Cursing won't help you.

[mykonian]

I'm town. You disagree with me, this makes you more likely scum. I think Ojanen, Hoopla, Spyrex, Kinetic are all town. You disagree with them. This makes you even more likely scum.

Yeah, because your reads are proven to be 100% accurate in all of your games on Day 1s 100% of the time.

Go learn to play Mafia.

Nope, not 100% accurate. But you clearly think completely different then I do. And I think as town.

Why can't you stay polite, btw?

[mykonian]

This is the first time I ever used this reason

. I never do because an argument like this ("his reads are different then mine") usually isn't accepted.

YOU LIE.

Confirm vote Incognito

[mykonian]

Q21, I know you are being guided enough, but if this stupid lynch goes through, shoot on the wagon. You are probably good enough yourself to know who to kill. Still, incog is a better lynch, and everybody should come over.

about spyrex:

And while you're not going to get a faaabulous case from me on why I'm going to call out... *gasp* slicey. You will get this exchange:

I haven't liked a thing Kinetic has written so far.

His first "real" post seems like a whole lot of noise since it's merely a summary of all of his experiences with all of the players. He describes it as getting his meta experience out of the way just in case he needs to call on it later, but I'm not sure I buy that explanation - it's not like Kinetic went into elaborate detail about each and every person he's played with so far; he kept things pretty vague, imo. He's didn't bother to comment on a thing that's happened here so far in that post, and he certainly hasn't seemed to do so in his subsequent posts either. And I reeeeeeeeeeally don't like the policy lynch vote on Empking - I disagree completely that Empking will become a "distraction as town" - it's not like we're completely unable to prod and probe the guy and ask him questions about his stances - and slipping by as scum? How exactly would that happen?

vote: Kinetic

Goddamit just lost my post. >__> I'll try to remember what I wrote.

Tajo, explain to me your reads on Myk and CKD. You say you like the case on CKD, yet you think he's town? I'm kinda confused. Also, why do you think myk is obvious town? He seems a little jumpy to me IMO. I don't necessarily think he's scum, but I definitely don't think he's obvtown as you say.

Kinetic, what I don't understand is, is that you keep talking about how bad Empking is in other games and how much of a liability he is, yet you're not commenting on him in THIS game, which is what actually matters. Empking has made enough posts that you can comment on, whether you think it's townie posts or scummy posts, yet you have said nothing on him in this game. You're voting him and attacking him for nothing he's done in this game, but his meta and reputation alone.

For that, I will Unvote, Vote: Kinetic.

I'm not liking anything he's saying.

I'll just Mega FoS: KMD

That similarity is jarring. Enough that it raised my cackles. I'd be shocked and awed if they were scum together though.

That said:

The majority of the Kinetic business revolves around a policy lynch on Empking. While

normally

that is eye raising because policy lynches are a great way to "waste" a day's lynch

that isn't the case here at all

. We can have cake and eat it too!

The very fact that that similarity struck his eye means that he was reading the thread very closely. He was scumhunting. Spyrex is likely town.

A quick guess at the scumteam: Incog, Imaginality, CKD. Tomorrow a series of quicklynches should take place.

Moriturus te saluto

[mykonian]

Clearly, Incognito is the way to go. Q21, for information purposes, could you kill him? Then we know what the choice here was (and why certain people rather stayed on Kinetic)

[mykonian]

VOTE: incognito

Lets get that piece of information for tomorrow. Hoopla, lets see if your theory was right. In case both wagons were on town, you will still lynch more accurately tomorrow (as you don't have to assume anything about the Incognito) . If one proves to be on scum you have a lot of information (scum having to pick between both lynches).

Otherwise, I would support a whole series of lynches tomorrow. There are a few townreads that are quite uncontested: these are valuable. Multiple lynches will protect them for endgame.

[mykonian]

No.

Stop being silly. We need the Kinetic flip first.

First, I think Incog softclaimed PR. Let him do (or fake) his work tonight.

Second, making a hasty lynch that depends on the flip of the other wagon will only give erroneus reads on the long term.

We should lynch obvscum Spyrex. God. Please.

Lets spot the contradiction here. You don't want a Incog lynch, as we need the Kinetic flip, but you need a spyrex lynch? Come on, who are you fooling?

I want to know what the choice of bandwagons was. Scum behaves differently if they had to choose between two town wagons or if one of the wagons was on scum. And Incog is a good lynch regardless.

Further, I absolutely HATE that you are claiming a PR for him here. 1. you shouldn't be powerrole hunting. Scum only does 2. If he is a powerrole, he clearly doesn't want to be outed. 3. if he wants everybody to know,

he'll claim

[mykonian]

Incog is town.

Unvote Vote: Kinetic.

Claim or die.

Myko, I want that damn reason about Spyrextown in your next post. I have very very very reliable meta that proves Spyrex is scum here.

Ojanen, are you basing your read on Spyrex in one game or do you have more examples?

God this is awkward. You named kinetic

once

, in your post where you gave your opinion on every player. And here you hopped on.

Your jokes give me inspiration, tajo

[mykonian]

unvote vote incognito

. Lets get the obvious lynches done fast. There is no use in waiting for the deadline. More lynches=more chance you are right.

[mykonian]

This wagon would almost too good to be true if Incog is scum - we'd get so many likely towns from present people, even Slicey's piping.
tajo, that quote is a survival comment, not a softclaim.

This is a post to remember. Who on your wagon yesterday were scum, incog?

The only reason I'm not unvoting is because I believe we benefit from having a lot lynches today. I'm having my doubts, and my current first choice is never going to be quicklynched (vollkan is scum)

[mykonian]

this post was made while I was tired. This makes me lazy.

@incog: it was the case before the case on you, yesterday.

@Vollkan. you ask a question that has already been answered in my previous post or the post before that. Read the thread first, and don't ask silly questions that won't find you scum anyway.

@Ojanen: thank you, well done.

unvote vote CKD

He's the first lynch today.

[mykonian]

Lets get a lynch first, Q21. I'm sure you'd like CKD, Imaginality, slicey etc to go. Lets get that done in the first week, and get some decent scumhunting after that.

[mykonian]

case

VOTE: Vollkan

[mykonian]

I think probably one of myko or Vollkan is scum, and lean slightly more towards myko. Also I noticed Empking speak up in myko's defence at one point and I think he's more likely to have done that for a scumbuddy.

Oh My God U Suck.

unvote vote Imaginality

. A it is called buddying. B Vollkans overall play consists out of a single big movement against Kinetic, textbook scumplay. You dismiss the whole game to "lean slightly more towards myko" because of the buddying of Empking.

[mykonian]

I think probably one of myko or Vollkan is scum, and lean slightly more towards myko.

Also

I noticed Empking speak up in myko's defence at one point and I think he's more likely to have done that for a scumbuddy.

Oh My God U Suck.

unvote vote Imaginality

. A it is called buddying. B Vollkans overall play consists out of a single big movement against Kinetic, textbook scumplay. You dismiss the whole game to "lean slightly more towards myko" because of the buddying of Empking.

Note the bolded; your assessment is not correct. I saw you as scummier (well, at that point as less town) than Vollkan in my D1 read, and I do so still, except less sure that Vollkan is town than I was yesterday. And there's something about the way the two of you are interacting that gives me a gut feel it's not a town vs town thing.

Make a case for me, please. I can't properly OMGUS vote you if you don't.

[mykonian]

At least a few more of us need to collaborate if we actually want to get multiple lynches in today.
I'd appreciate more of these people stating their preferences out of the block [Slicey, Tenchi, vollkan, kmd]. Right now there's 2 votes on each of Slicey, Tenchi and vollkan instead of a wagon on anyone.

Okay, I'm happy to help here. Let's get Slicey going.

Unvote
Vote: Slicey

Of the other three, my preference is Tenchi > Kmd > vollkan.

Where is my case? If you don't want to post it, you can leave it, but you are going to say something about it.

unvote vote slicey

[mykonian]

and again vollkan finds it terribly hard to move his vote. He's scum.

[mykonian]

Tajo, help us lynch Slicey, KMD and maybe vollkan and I'll give you my vote for a SpyreX wagon after. Come on guys, we really need to get on with it before we waste any more time.

second

Tajo, I know you are town, now come on and do something in stead of staying stubborn.

[mykonian]

I find your summary to be odd, and basically saying nothing. I'm sure it is helpful to you, but you don't calculate in the amount of information you are looking at. Spyrex and Hoopla having the same score, while you said 1 ( ! ) thing about spyrex is a good example. Concentration of tells is important.

Your part about spyrex is odd anyway. Don't set him up as your buddy.

[/bump] Guy's, this is silly. The activity is horrible here. (

mod, could I request a mass-prod?

)

[mykonian]

Answers to a few things:

I think probably one of myko or Vollkan is scum, and lean slightly more towards myko.

Also

I noticed Empking speak up in myko's defence at one point and I think he's more likely to have done that for a scumbuddy.

Oh My God U Suck.

unvote vote Imaginality

. A it is called buddying. B Vollkans overall play consists out of a single big movement against Kinetic, textbook scumplay. You dismiss the whole game to "lean slightly more towards myko" because of the buddying of Empking.

Note the bolded; your assessment is not correct. I saw you as scummier (well, at that point as less town) than Vollkan in my D1 read, and I do so still, except less sure that Vollkan is town than I was yesterday. And there's something about the way the two of you are interacting that gives me a gut feel it's not a town vs town thing.

Make a case for me, please. I can't properly OMGUS vote you if you don't.

I thought it was mainly D1 you're this touchy...

@Imaginality, just to make your work easier. I've heard that I seem to be touchy/cautious etc. more often. If this is observed, it is usually on day one. Accusations against me don't seem that serious to you, and I seem to overreact on them. The reason mostly is that it hasn't been uncommon that I got lynched day 1 by people all voting me for different little reasons. I'd rather seem a little cautious then let that happen here. (see also my answer at Hoopla's question)

Where is my case? If you don't want to post it, you can leave it, but you are going to say something about it.

I'm going to leave it for now while we focus on getting a few more obvious lynches done today.

this has nothing to do with cautiousness. I think you said something, for whatever reason, that you can't prove to be true. With Vollkan's active lurking + completely tunneling on Kinetic, you'd have to twist this game completely to see me more likely as scum. Thank you for proving my point: you can't make such a case without making it obvious that it is a bad case.

[mykonian]

Hi. Anyone aside from me thinking mass claim?

I wouldn't mind discussing who we think is scum first. If we get massclaim, that'll tell us something about the order in which it should happen.

Further, strategy is needed. Are we going to random lynch everybody who isn't ubertowny, or are we going to lynch one person and assume we are accurate again?

Rereading the game, I get very good vibes from KMD's early game, while Imaginality is on top of my scumlist.

VOTE: Imaginality

[mykonian]

nice, that list.

Seen that Hoopla is convinced we can lynch fast enough to end this game today if we have one or two confirmed players, I'll claim.

I'm a 2-shot town powerrole cop. I can find out if someone is a town powerrole or not. This means town powerroles will be my confirmed innocents.

Tajo and Q21 are

town

powerroles

.

Seen that tajo that the flips this day made tajo somewhat an easy target for scum, I wanted to know who suspected him. Ojanen her read on Tajo was

very accurate

confirm vote imaginality

[mykonian]

That's a strange role, but I have no reason to disbelieve it. So, it's guarenteed that these players are town powerroles, myko?

If so, we can lynch through everyone except Tajo and q21, to guarentee the win. Mykonian needs to be lynched too on the off chance he is lying about this. We should really only have one more scum to catch, so lets power through these lynches.

VOTE: imaginality

yes, it is guaranteed that q21 and tajo are town powerroles.

[mykonian]

VOTE: tenchi

[mykonian]

haven't looked at that, sorry. For as far as I know, Tajo is a doctor, and his reads have been a little... overconfident. Nothing is lost if Q21 and tajo are town.

[mykonian]

neither does it hurt to lynch myko anyway.

start claiming if you want a massclaim. You won't get another one from me.

[mykonian]

^ scum trying to stall.

I know, I know. Doesn't really matter. Massclaim is senseless (we won't see the flips anyway and optimum strategy is to make sure the mafia doesn't get another NK, as to preserve the 2 confirmed players (1 is not enough)), and assuming that there aren't 5 scum, 3/4 of the reads in this game haven't been accurate, even Tajo's confirmation isn't even needed (though he will be able to give it anyway)

Let incog play his own little game.

[mykonian]

I knew the last thing we should do is give tajo the idea that he was important.

Tajo, being the last with massclaim is fun and all, but it only helps when scum fakeclaims a PR and this is accidentaly yours. It doesn't matter here, as town has to make sure you and Q21 stay alive for the win, and lynch the rest (regardless of "role")

[mykonian]

now I really want tajo to claim.

there was no kill night 1. It surprised me as Q21 kindly broke my hope of drawing a doc-protection.

[mykonian]

Tenchi needs to get in here and claim ASAP. His last two posts are making me think he's either scum or a PR. I can't see any other reason why he'd call me town when he's reached L-1 otherwise. I don't get why he didn't even claim.

Hoopla, why didn't you guard anyone on either Night?

can't we lynch incog first?

[mykonian]

a vt who shot scum night 1.

[mykonian]

it's just that I promised myself not to play another game while this was going on.

and it is getting boring as tajo is a lurker and tenchi will never come back again.

Does anyone know a good joke?

[mykonian]

no...

[mykonian]

yeah, if you are town, we absolutely didn't work well together. Last game with you was definately better then this one. Anyway.

The uselessness of the post. It doesn't really matter if tenchi is a pr. Further, the question posed for hoopla is for the sake of asking a question: you won't ever deduce from that if someone is scum or not. You would already have, or you are assuming she is town at this point. The answer will only reinforce what you were already thinking. Plus that it won't actually matter, as hoopla will be lynched early enough to never win the game as scum.

[mykonian]

Tenchi claimed last. With information that we were looking for a doctor.

He claims only 1 nightaction, and says he had saved Incog.

This must be the easiest fakeclaim ever.


Now, who is too stupid to see that with Q21 and Tajo as last players in this game, we win?

[mykonian]

Lol, why do you guys want to lynhc Incog. He is OBVtown

spyrex was obvscum. According to you. Further, your activity suggest that you actually don't care about the game (who wouldn't post for 2 days when you are in the middle of a massclaim?).

VOTE: KMD

[mykonian]

for the simple reason that Tenchi's claim STINKS.

Seriously, doesn't claim on L-1, in a massclaim situation. Then, the whole town agrees that there must have been a reason that there was only 1 death N1. After all this, tenchi claims doctor with only target.

Another thing to consider is that Patrick might have used the idea that town should have 1 of each type of role.

I'm the investigative part
Q21 would be the killer
Tajo is the blocker
and who does the protecting? Hoopla

and

Tenchi?

I see no reason for another night. Just lynch the bunch and win with Tajo and Q21 (the 3rd confirmed player is not necesary, and I can't investigate anymore anyway.)

[mykonian]

Hoopla, it wouldn't have to be a guess for myko to know power roles. He could easily be a scum rolecop which is why he eventually needs to be lynched too.

I have the feeling hoopla already knows, and accepts that possibility. She was the one saying that my claim was weird. Which it is, as "town PR cop" would be a nice scum powerrole, while it makes little sense as a town PR (it would only be sensible to limit the information to the cop)

[mykonian]

myko is 2 shot, just like Q21. (which was why myko particulary believed Q21's claim, as it resembled his own role). So we are getting no more confirmed players, and we need at least 2 to win a game for certain.

Which is why we should lynch everybody but Tajo and Q21

TODAY

[mykonian]

nice, that list.

Seen that Hoopla is convinced we can lynch fast enough to end this game today if we have one or two confirmed players, I'll claim.

I'm a

2-shot

town powerrole cop. I can find out if someone is a town powerrole or not. This means town powerroles will be my confirmed innocents.

Tajo and Q21 are

town

powerroles

.

Seen that tajo that the flips this day made tajo somewhat an easy target for scum, I wanted to know who suspected him. Ojanen her read on Tajo was

very accurate

confirm vote imaginality

[mykonian]

if that means you will still try to get a night, yes.

[mykonian]

NO

[mykonian]

Tenchitown: game doesnt end if q21 is scum.

Tenchiscum: game doesnt end if q21 is scum.

So, no.

What if tajo is scum?

[mykonian]

which makes me wonder why tajo's only comment to this game is that he thinks Q21 is scum.

Just get my role: In case I would investigate a vanilla, or a Mafia RB, or a SK, the result would all be the same: "no town PR". My role doesn't get guilties, only innocents. There never has been a reason to give a possible SK immunity to my role (

as he couldn't be caught by it anyway, unless he claimed vig

)

Futher, any plan that leaves incog is a bad one. Just as we won't leave tenchi alive today, or KMD. Q21 has played very well apart from the wagon to his claim, just as Ojanen has been percieved as very town. Just get your list back into memory.

[mykonian]

I just as much confirmed Q21. Tajo being "paranoid" is mostly being "stupid"

[mykonian]

you tell me

unvote vote Tenchi

Lurkerscum.

[mykonian]

Good, get me lynched.

Now vote Tenchi, plz. You'll get me in a few lynches.

[mykonian]

No really. Explain your role a bit more if you can. I don't get why you're paranoid about tajo now. Do you think he's just being dense or do you think he actually might be scum?

I am annoyed. He is town, and acting like a fool.

[mykonian]

Momentum. I just want the lurkers out so we can lynch faster afterwards. Lynch tenchi and KMD and incog become easier

(did you notice how Incog wanted to be "confirmed" if tenchi wasn't scum?)

[mykonian]

Ok that's better.

If Tenchi really is the final scum and really DID just claim Doc to save himself, then my guess for the N1 shenanigans is that the scum just didn't get to submit the NK. I know Patrick is usually pretty strict with Night submission deadlines, and I've definitely seen him mod at least one game where the scum forgot to submit an NK and the Day began with no kill. With a hypothetical scum team of Empking, Tenchi, Slicey, and vollkan, I could maybe see that happening. vollkan seems like the only normally active one within that group and now that I've looked back on it, even

he

was fairly inactive during Day 1 also.

Looking at it from that way, I guess lynching Tenchi really is the way to go.

If the game doesn't end upon his lynch, then from all of your perspective I should at least be confirmed town.

like, wth?

[mykonian]

sorry incog.

[mykonian]

You're observant, a strong skill in any mafia player. You've always been good at sniffing out poweroles, especially when playing as scum, and you don't see why that shouldn't carry over to FTF. You've made many games, you know what items poweroles use and you know their mannerisms. Direct enquiries tend to result in accusations of fishing, but at night you can certainly take action. Twice during the game at night you can investigate a player to find out whether they hold a town powerole; you dare not do it any more than that for fear of waking someone up.

Your results will be either "town power" or "not town power".

In games terms, you're a 2 shot powerole cop. You win when all anti-town roles are eliminated. Confirm by PM.

You can't blame this on Flay

[mykonian]

All in all, pretty good game by town, but we screwed up by having confirmable players in a multilynch situation. Better way to handle Role Cop would have been to either just give Power/No Power, or the type of role without alignment.

The role was meant to give just power / no power.

I miss the "town part" here.

anyway, fun game. scum had the weaker players.

[mykonian]

good. Scum actually noticed I was trying to draw a protection to me :/