Mafia 119: MURDER AT HOTEL DEATH(GAME OVER)

[a2rudeboy]

vote:a2rudeboy

this guy's been known to lurk, keep your eyes open

[a2rudeboy]

vote:pomegranate

for being too damn lazy to come up with a semi-humorous RV

[a2rudeboy]

@volk- why not throw it out there? just reading through a couple of times, it seems pretty clear to me that the two people who are most closely buddying up are jack and esp. they also happen to be the two players that are the most on the defensive now. i'm not sure if i've gotten good enough of a read on either yet...but if you asked me to pick my scumpair right now, it would be them. although there is the point about scum trying to stay neutral this early in the game, but being experienced they would know it and could use it as an easy defense if they chose to play it agressive, but... (endless WIFOM tunnel)

that being said.

vote:esp

bandwagongogogo!

[a2rudeboy]

cooldog I claim scum, I'm scum with espeonage, your move

See. It's stuff like this and that exchange earlier that make me think that I would stand by a lynch on either of you guys, even if you turned up town. Because, at this point, if you aren't scum, you surely aren't pro-town (and it's not as if it's in your meta to play the VI) And that's enough of a reason for me.

[a2rudeboy]

prod pick up.

doing a read.

[a2rudeboy]

prod avoidance.

still reading, been trying to figure out which of many ongoing theories is the most compelling right now.

[a2rudeboy]

Hello.

(very quickly steps out of character) Apologies for the lurking/total disappearance. Without going into too much detail, something drastic occured IRL, could not post. But I used the extra long night phase to catch up.

(steps back)

Ahem.

I think Prana was coming off incredibly reasonable at the end of d1/ I do not like at all how quickly the train built up on NC, and while once the attention turned on him he definitely started acting scummy and flailing all over the god damn place, I still think the initial reasoning behind the beginning was flimsy at best. I am more concerned with Jack's overwhelmingly anti-town play at this point. There were the comments in the early stages of the game, his frantic desire to switch everyone from Espy -who we had seen him as acting buddylike with- now a confirmed scum, to NC which is now confirmed town. At one point he even outright stated that the game wasn't really providing any interest for him anymore.

@Jack- Why the incessant tunneling on NC, even before he started flailing? After the flips, how do you justify more or less single-handedly leading the town from a scumlynch to a mislynch? If you aren't scum, please tell me what actions you have taken that were pro-town?

vote: Jack

CoolDog I think at this point deserves a

HoS Cooldog

for things such as: posting at night, his constant "i'm going to be going, but.." posts, AtE overload. The biggest tell for me however, was the posting of the case after the hammer, especially considering how his case was just exact repetition of a previous case from someone else. I am unable to tell at this point if it's for sure a scumtell, or just stupid play.

@Cool- Why the need to constantly tell us you are leaving quickly when you post? Is it a reason to cover up for lack of content? Wouldn't it be more pro-town to wait until you had time to build a case and post? Explain why you justified the lynch after the hammer, without original reasoning? Explain how any of these actions were protown.

[a2rudeboy]

So, having equally incredibly strong suspicions on two players after 24pgs is considered scummy now?

[a2rudeboy]

I'm just verifying that you quickly switched your vote from one based on a large amount of theory (cooldog) to one based entirely on theory (myself).

[a2rudeboy]

ebwop : large amount of evidence (cooldog) to one based entirely on theory (myself)

[a2rudeboy]

None of those points are at all paticularly reflective of any actual analysis, and all but the vague "AtE overload" charge are only dubiously scummy at best. I can't see how they could justify a HoS. But then we get the "biggest tell" of repeating a case. Putting aside whether that really is a huge scumtell, a2 immediately proceeds to undercut this with his last sentence (bolded). In other words, he both thinks it is the "biggest scumtell" (among a handful of rather piddly 'scumtells', the aggregate of which apparently justifies a HoS), but is also uncertain about whether or not it is a scumtell.

So, having equally incredibly strong suspicions on two players after 24pgs is considered scummy now?

Quote for me please where somebody attacked you for 'having equally strong suspicions'?

Vollkan, I misspoke myself in that last section, and I admit that I contradicted myself. What I meant to say is that all of those little things, even though separately may be only dubious scumtells, added up together, they give me the biggest impression of scum. I am unsure if the unnecessary repeating of a case at a time when no case was needed was either a scum slip or if it was just stupid play (certainly not needed/beneficial to either side). At the same time, if i take the repeating of the case (which I am unsure about until i hear more from CD), but combine it with the previous little things, that's what caused me to say biggest scumtell. It's not the biggest on it's own, but for me it's what tipped his overall play into scumland.

As regards the equally strong suspicions. That was how I interpreted DH's vote. The argument was based on having seen scum drop a vote and a HoS in the same post and get away with it too many times before. I haven't seen that yet in my experience on this site. If you'd like, I can link you to a game where I was scum and one where I was town. My question is, had i only FoS'd CD, or still mentioned my issues with him and not done any action at all, would we still be having this conversation right now? At this moment, I suspect Jack as much as I do CoolDog, feel that both are worthy for more than a FoS, but could only vote one.

I might not be able to post much as of late but, I will be happy to answer all of your questions.

It WAS (to my knowlage) 24 hours. Do any of you have any questions for me?

Yes, I do. Could you please answer them? Do you need me to repost them:

@Cool- Why the need to constantly tell us you are leaving quickly when you post? Is it a reason to cover up for lack of content? Wouldn't it be more pro-town to wait until you had time to build a case and post? Explain why you justified the lynch after the hammer, without original reasoning? Explain how any of these actions were protown.

@Prana- I've tried pushing Jack, but it doesn't seem to be picking up much steam.

[a2rudeboy]

@Snake- What do you make of Jack's tunneling on NC and earlier buddying with confirmed scum?

[a2rudeboy]

@ CoolDog- Reading comprehension. I didn't vote you, you got a hand of shame, true I expressed desire to vote, but I still see you as a lesser lynch candidate than Jack. Pay closer attention to details = more town.

@Horrordude (from a while ago)- Case based on lurking= flimsy. Case based on active lurking = stronger.

@CKD- Care to elaborate a little on your vote for looker (#659) ? SInce the vote, his responses have surely upped my scumdar, but I was just wondering what it was before then that made you vote him. It appeared out of nowhere to me.

@Jack- I'd still like the answers to my questions. Also, eagerly awaiting that bandwagon analysis.


Let's not hammer until we get the replacements in and get their views on the game

[a2rudeboy]

LMP- Is your case still based on the "he voted and HoS in the same post" theory?

[a2rudeboy]

Similarity in both wagons - Jackscum was huge proponent

[a2rudeboy]

LMP- Is your case still based on the "he voted and HoS in the same post" theory?

I haven't been in the game very long and I've made my arguments against CD very plain. I wasn't the one who brought that post up, I simply agreed with the player who did. I made a huge post listing point by point my case on him. Go read it again.

You scum buddies are really funny.

I was referring to your case on me.

[a2rudeboy]

vote: jack

[a2rudeboy]

@LMP- How does it read in that way?
I was asking if your case on me was still based mainly on the post in which i voted/fos'd at the same time (a case which i found weak) or if you had picked up new information from other posts which have strengthened your case.

[a2rudeboy]

I am still massively surprised we haven't lynched Jack yet.

And oh, look, Pom disappeared again

[a2rudeboy]

because clearly your fos:CD/vote other doesn't look scummy when the person you fos isn't scum.

Sarcasm?

I may have asked this before but I'll ask it again: If that post in question read exactly the same way, minus "fos:CD" Would you still be voting me?

[a2rudeboy]

v/la until Monday... I has mono, and need the recovery time.

Feel better, a2.

[a2rudeboy]

@Pom- And who are we lynching today? Pacman's vote puts Jack back at l-2, if PD were to switch his vote back to where it's been the majority of the game, that would be l-1, and I'm sure someone around here would be willing to hammer. As far as I'm concerned, Jack is the scummiest slot in the game right now, for reasons I've previously mentioned. Why, if Jack could be a future lynch is he not today's lynch?

[a2rudeboy]

@Vollkan- You seem to have a good enough knowledge of Jack's meta. What does Jack play like when he's scum?

p-edit- LOL

[a2rudeboy]

unvote

Believe it or not, I'm actually starting to come around to the idea of Jack being town. Although I'm still against some of his earlier play. Jack, any chance we can get that bandwagon analysis you promised way way back.

This game must be giving Vollkan massive headaches...I believe that's the second time we've seen that gif this game.

I was going to put a vote down...but I can't figure who i think is the scummiest right now.

[a2rudeboy]

ebwop-

unvote

[a2rudeboy]

(shit, i thought i had posted this up last night)

Claim: VT.

We've already discussed how it's unlikely there are many vanilla roles in this game. I simply don't think there are two left. And the claim i least believe is..

vote:evilpacman

I don't think any of the neighbors are scum.

Also, why do we think there's two mafia left instead of one? Just the number of power-heavy town roles?

[a2rudeboy]

Pacman: Did you read the game when you replaced in?

Volkan: What I was saying, was that given the earlier discussion that was had regarding originalmod's attempting to put strictly VT in the game, and the fact we've already lynched a couple, I would be doubtful that there is more than one vt (myself) left in the game. If pacman has a neighborhood alignment or something else to distinguish him from this, now would be the time to mention it. Otherwise, my vote is staying there. Also, it goes without saying i think that vezok was a pretty anti-town slot.

[a2rudeboy]

EBWOP: I jumbled up some words. I meant, the originalmod's wish to put mostly non vanilla roles in game

[a2rudeboy]

Pacman- Your question, I felt was more general than Vollkan's. I can count on him having read and followed along the entire game, I am unsure about you as you replaced in when the game was already large. There was a discussion on D1 about how Seraphim was likely to keep the game from having too many Vanilla Townies. I believe at one point it led to disbelief of a VT claim because some were under the impression there were no vanilla roles.

[a2rudeboy]

The idea of a town with little or no VT does seem possible to me. Because just about every slot in this game has at least a neighborhood they were a part of, I just simply don't believe there were two more vt out there.

I have been acting under the impression this game was a little town-sided, partially because i believe that none of the four who claimed D1 were scum (I think it would swing far too heavily in scum's favour if one of them was scumz)

unvote

[a2rudeboy]

Was not aware I needed to spell out everything:

Recent posts by other people and a re-checking of the tracker role description ( Have not played with one in a while) have led me to take off my vote on pacman.

Better?

[a2rudeboy]

Why are we tunneling on me?

[a2rudeboy]

Who is a better vote? I'm not sure.
I don't think any of the neighbors (CKD, Lewarcher replacing Pom) are scummy spots as I've already said.
I believed LMP and Volkan's claim.
Pac apparaently can't be scum because of the mentioned reasons.
I'm town.

So, that would lead, I guess to LMP and Volkan. I haven't got anything less than from major town from volkan, but looking at his play style, it seems even if he was scum, he would be hard to catch in a slip up. I've had my doubts about LMP for parts of the game, a lot of it based on his overenthusiastic wish to get me lynched.

[a2rudeboy]

I'm trying to say, I have no suspects. And am really unsure what to do at this point in the game.
I believe that none of the neighbors are scum more than I believe your guys' claim So if i'm being pressured to scumhunt and put down a vote, it will end up being one of you two.

[a2rudeboy]

I was trying to elaborate on how I've come to this position and why I do not have vote down. I haven't completely eliminated anyone, just saying (again) I believed all the neighbors to be town, and CKD / Lewarcher's claims have already been backed in the thread numerous times.

You guys are more likely to be scum, because your claim is dependent on each other...at this point the scum possibilities as far as i see are CKD and Lewarcher (highly unlikely) a combination of one of ckd / lewarcher and one of volkan / LMP (possible, but i still dont think if there are 5 scum in this game, they need the added kill) or Volk / LMP. I see LMP as the scummiest player so far, so this is the avenue i have to follow, yes?

vote: LMP

[a2rudeboy]

CKD- I was pushing a Jack lynch hardcore from day one, even after most people considered him town. If I was scum, wouldn't I have foregone the lynch when there were better/ easier candidates and just NK?

(Yes, the above is WIFOM, yes, I still think it makes a point)

[a2rudeboy]

Scum to town:

LMP
CKD
Volk (strict middle, can get no read)
Pac/Warcher

[a2rudeboy]

/ prod. walls walls walls, reading them now.

[a2rudeboy]

I'm alive in two games at this moment...the other one is a bastard mod, with a lot of quick posting and not much analysis being required...thus it's easiest to post there. And if you did a wide span of my meta, you would see i lurk pretty regardless of alignment. At this point, there's also not anything I feel I can do is this game to really clear myself, as I'm already the designated lynch and LMP/others are just trying to draw out the day for more info.

[a2rudeboy]

Lynch- I can provide 2 or 3 lazytown games for every lazyscum game. Here's a hint: see the list at the bottom of my sig? Try most of those.

[a2rudeboy]

Question for EVERYONE: When i get lynched, and flip town, who is going to be your top suspect?

LMP- Here, I'll help you some.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=15307 Town
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... &start=775 Scum
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=15289 Town

Those are ones I've been in that are finished. There are also ones in my sig. If you can find something definitively different between my scum lurk meta and my town lurk meta, I would love to hear it.

[a2rudeboy]

CKD- Was that post really necessary? I've already explained there are only two ongoing games I am in where I am still alive. And I don't think you really needed to repeat the 'ass' portion.

Volky- Because I want to know who else, if anyone, people suspect.

[a2rudeboy]

Oh, fuck this.

vote: a2rude

[a2rudeboy]

LMP- It doesn't matter...there isn't a single way i was getting out of this day alive.

[a2rudeboy]

At this point, it was either going to come from Volkan or Pacman. It isn't like there's a large difference in which of them does it, you still have 5 days worth of analysis.

[a2rudeboy]

Well, I'm not.

Pacman already said he wouldnt hammer.

[a2rudeboy]

i read the entire game.