Mafia 119: MURDER AT HOTEL DEATH(GAME OVER)

[Pomegranate]

VOTE: PranaDevil

[insert meaningless reason here: ]

[Pomegranate]

CoolDoG: I

can

. But I'm lazy, and it takes too much effort.

[Pomegranate]

Oh, I missed that there was a second page, but I don't feel like if affected my RV anyway.

[Pomegranate]

Oh, I missed that there was a second page, but I don't feel like if affected my RV anyway.

Lazy. I think we should wait for CKD's claim before we lynch; what do you think?

I think so too.

On another serious not, I am suspicious of Espy for being wishy-washy and other fun stuff (like, how vollkan explained, that a smiley doesn't make Jack town, no matter whether it was the "correct response" in Espy's mind or not).

VOTE: Espy. (Prana: He has about four votes in a large game. Quicklynch WHATTTT?)

I will say that I have some meta of Espy acting similarly as town (Karma Mafia), but I feel like it doesn't count for much when it's so easy to replicate bad play like this as scum.

(Oh, Espeonage, you don't mind if I call you Espy, right? I kind of like it.)

[Pomegranate]

Pom (Hey again btw ), I may not be around regularly at the moment (or at least as regular as I have been in the past) if I'm not going to be around for potentially 24 hours I don't wish to have a vote on someone and have that vote possibly allow even an accidental quick lynch (recent issues elsewhere that I'm not allowed to comment on have shown that to me). Hence why I'm not out and out voting him for the moment. Consider me just being safe instead of sorry.

Okay. That makes good sense.

[Pomegranate]

iso 3

He is wishy washy.
Vote
He isn't going to by quick lynched.
He is consistent with his bad town meta.

Considering that was tipping point vote, I'm not happy about it. It is opportunistic and doesn't even give a real reason. A wagon flop if I ever saw one.

VOTE: Pom

That is the scum that is most likely on my wagon.

I said that I agreed with vollkan's statement in the post in which I voted you-

On another serious not, I am suspicious of Espy for being wishy-washy and other fun stuff (like, how vollkan explained, that a smiley doesn't make Jack town, no matter whether it was the "correct response" in Espy's mind or not).

And I didn't vote you

because

you weren't going the be quicklynched. That doesn't make sense, and I wouldn't say it. Stop misrepresenting me.

Also: What do you think of CKD's vote?

[Pomegranate]

How interesting. I have CKD's role as well, but with Pomegranate.

Zwets, you shouldn't have claimed. However, now that you have, I will confirm that this is true.

[Pomegranate]

VOTE: zwet In his claim post just before he seemed as if he was flopping onto the townieness of CKDs claim. I don't like that. Also that last post just now doesn't sit with me very well either.

I'm guessing you decided to dodge my last post.

It feels like I struck a nerve with you and you've decided to pass the buck onto zwet.

I want more people to comment on the Pom/Espy connection here. That was a pretty obvious soft-defense of her.

I hate it when people decide that I must be buddies with someone I think is scum. (Yes, Espeonage did something stupid again. He's still scum. It doesn't mean that I'm scum.)

[Pomegranate]

And NO. Saying the role name or any other available info is PRO-TOWN. That is a -fact-.

Sorry, but that is an -opinion-.

[Pomegranate]

Here's Pomegranate, who's been under the radar, passive in her views and soft-defended by Espy (someone who REALLY should be lynched either now or later). She is also one of the neighbors (who never wanted to be outed, by the way; I've been in plenty of games where scum neighbors did not want to be outed), which gives her just as much of a chance of being scum as CKD does but is more likely due to composure differences.

When exactly did I defend Espy?

And I should have WANTED to out myself?

[Pomegranate]

"This is a triumph. Making a note here, huge success!"

For once, I actually know what's being referenced!

[Pomegranate]

Here's Pomegranate, who's been under the radar, passive in her views and

soft-defended by Espy

(someone who REALLY should be lynched either now or later). She is also one of the neighbors (who never wanted to be outed, by the way; I've been in plenty of games where scum neighbors did not want to be outed), which gives her just as much of a chance of being scum as CKD does but is more likely due to composure differences.

When exactly did I defend Espy?

And I should have WANTED to out myself?

You misread again...

And you were pretty hesitant after you were outed to confirm based on the composure of your post.

I'll reply to voll later.

Sorry, my bad, I did misread (but I don't think that it's the second time... It's possible, whatever).

Also, you're saying that I'm scummy because I was (soft-)defended by scum (Espy), but you're voting me, and not Espy. How does that make a shred of sense?

Um, hesitant? I said that I confirm that what Zwets claimed is true in the first post I made after his claim; the wording was clear enough.

Your case is full of fail, and you're misrepresenting me. Don't call it OMGUS, but I find you pushing such a lame case (if even that) is scummy in itself.

I got my eye on you DH.

[Pomegranate]

And yeah, you were hesitant; you outwardly expressed disdain towards Zwet forcing you to claim. I've seen plenty of scum neighbors go "Oh man...well I didn't want to claim, but sure, I'm a neighbor with X." Usually, they're neighborizers or neighbors from the start of the game. Town would want that information out in the open; scum wouldn't.

You're right that I wasn't pleased that I had to claim. I don't see how that't anything but a nulltell, and I disagree that town would want the claimed information out in the open.

Would you have claimed D1 if you were in the same position as CKD, or me (etc.)?

[Pomegranate]

EBWOP: Explaining further, if they were all town "Masons", I would completely agree with you, but Neighbors are a

completely

different ballgame.

Neighbors with vig kills are also

completely

different ball games.

[Pomegranate]

Pom, you're lacking a desire to lynch scum here. That's what's making me so uneasy between our back and forth. If you know that outing neighbors basically narrows scum down to 1 or 2 of four people, then why WOULDN'T you be for it, even

with

vig kills?

1. In a game like this, I would not say that 1 or 2 out of the 4 are scum- not to outguess the mod, but that is very predictable, and had I designed a setup with neighbors like these, I wouldn't necessarily have proportioned it like that.

2. I'm not lacking the desire to lynch scum- but I am giving the neighbors the same chance of being scum as any other player at this point.

3. The part about vig kills was me saying that I wasn't thrilled to claim because of them, so I don't get your point bringing it up here.

[Pomegranate]

1. Really? So you think that, out of 18 people (and if scum usually comprises of 1/4 people, we'll say 4 and maybe a third party), there could be 4 town neighbors?

That would be out of 13ish town. I would assume half of those or at little more than half are VTs, so we'll say 6 VTs to be generous. That leaves 6 power roles. That would mean that 2/3 of these power roles are neighbor vigiliantes. That sounds ridiculous and I'm sure that you'll agree

.)

Now, on the flip side, if there are 4 scum neighbor-vigs, that would comprise of all of the scum, or 4/5 if there are 5 scum instead of a third party. That also sounds ridiculous. Same goes for 3 scum: 3/4 of mafia are neighborvigs.

So, it sounds like you're trying to discredit logical thinking to debunk an argument that I have. Or would you agree after seeing the numbers?

2. That wasn't my point. If you know my point 1 of this post is valid and logical, then you'd know that there would be 1-2 scum in these neighborvig combinations. If you out the neighbors, then you have drastically narrowed down where one or two of the scum might be, then you can pick and choose from those 4. You were trying to prevent that and are arguing that it's not such a great idea, therefore it's a lack of desire to lynch scum.

3. Here's an example of that lack of desire to lynch scum. I would think that killing mafia would by far and away trump outing a simple mechanic like a vig shot to most townies. Even if so: you shouldn't have anything to worry about because if mafia chose to kill the town neighborvigs, the chance to find the scum that I mentioned earlier in point 2 would be

drastically

heightened. So why does this bother you so much?

You do convince me of some points in this post. Let me see...

1. I'm not saying that it's not likely that there's one mafiate in there- it is, I guess- but I wouldn't assume it. Also, as far as the bolded part goes, check out something I found on Seraphim's wiki page:

I have decided to commit myself to a mission: games that combine complicated, mostly no-vanilla setups along with mechanics that favor scumhunting to create games that generate interest in both phases.

I think that that would put your calculation as to the number of VTs and PRs all off.

2. If the point 1 above is logical, then therefore my original point 2 is still logical, IMO.

3. I am a bit confused (and I feel like I proved my point well enough by now).

HOWEVER: I'm not saying that there necessarily are no scum within the two pairs of neighborvigs.

[Pomegranate]

I'm getting terrible vibes from SS. I think that CKD revealed an okay amount, and we were fine without knowing it was a 1-shot. That's not so bad though.

The way CKD summarized the QT doesn't put SS in a positive light-

SS, do you agree with the way CKD explained the conversation in your QT?

Still, we should lynch Espy now.

[Pomegranate]

Has anybody seen Pomegranate?

I have!!!!

(Sorry for the unexplained absence- I forgot to mention that I would be v/la for a couple days due to Rosh Hashanah. Will read up.)

[Pomegranate]

[*]Pom, why were you opposed to claiming?

Are you asking about before or after CKD claimed?

[Pomegranate]

zwet and pom...did you guys have any doubts as to the alignment of each other?

Well... I don't get a scummy vibe from him or anything. However, with the dynamics of the neighborhoods, I feel like there's a slightly raised possibility of him being scum over anyone else in the game at random.

[Pomegranate]

the mod is WIFOMing us. I don't think any of the neighbors are scum.

Just clarifying: You think that none of the neighbors are scum just by the way the neighborhoods work(, or because you don't find any of them scummy)?

[Pomegranate]

THAT'S RIGHT NERO, YOUR DREAMS HAVE BECOME REALITY, MY VOTE ON YOU IS INVALID BECAUSE I MISSPELLED YOUR NAME

BTW I MISSPELLED YOUR NAME BECAUSE YOU'VE BEEN LURKING HARDCORE

AND I HAVEN'T SEEN A POST FROM YOU IN FOREVER

Why me and not NicolBolas?

Because you responded to a vote after a 6 day absence and JUST NOW you tried to deflect suspicion onto another lurker?

What does it matter what Jack thinks of NicolBolas?

This makes total sense!!!! I'm just supposed to lie down and not respond when being call scum. And it matters 'cause I'm being voted for lurking, what makes me the best lurker lynch? 'Cause I posted in another thread? Oh yes that just means I HAVE to be scum huh?

Deflection is NOT a defense, period. No one is expecting you "to lie down and not respond when being call scum". Please, write up a proper defense.

Hint: A proper defense isn't ""Wait, what? He did it too!! Kbai."

@Mod- Can we PLEASE have a votecount?

When I can see if a Nero Cain wagon is plausible, I may switch my vote.

[Pomegranate]

Espy wagon is better than a Nero wagon k thx.

I mean, Espy is okay, but the wagon is a bit stale and hasn't gone anywhere new recently. I'd prefer an NC lynch if we could get one, but I won't be upset with Espy.

[Pomegranate]

Pom 526 is fail.

Still waiting on Jack to answer 523.

That was a lovely defense.

Vote: Nero Cain

.

(Prana: Have you noticed that all of NC's reactions are REALLYREALLYREALLY SCUMMY? Cuz that's not a nulltell.)

[Pomegranate]

But what's he meant to reply to? "You turned up just after something was directed at you?" "Oh, so I did".

Except that "Oh, so I did." wasn't his response- it was "But didn't NB do it too?"

(By the way Prana, I don't think that Espy is a bad lynch, and I think that he's likely a good candidate for tomorrow.)

--

Gah!!!

Stop defending me Prana.

I'm all for my lynch. I mean the mafia is not going to kill me 'cause I'm "scummy" since I chose to lurk until I had something to add. So I found the game boring...definitely a scum tell. So each day that I live the mafia are going to use me as a distraction and say that I still could be scum.

I'm pretty disappointed in SS and Pom...I don't quite understand them. I mean what the hell am I supposed to do?

Hey guys I'm not scum, here's my pm.

'Cause really that's the only way anyone is going to believe anything.

Deflection is not a defense!!!

, yells the fruit.

Isn't that the whole point of the game? Person A says XXX is scummy 'cause ____ Person B says this person is scummy 'cause ____ so on and so forth until a vote is met.

I find in rather pathetic that I'm scummier than Jack and Espy but w/e.

All I can say is that I'm 100% VT and maybe tomorrow you guys can actually scum hunt.

Oh gosh, this post is so full of fail. Let me try to address things in order.

Playing the "Yeah, I would lynch me too." card doesn't do anything for us. If you would lynch yourself, then how are you expecting us not to? I hate that after this you say that you're 'disappointed' with me, and you don't understand me. Again, why do you expect me not to try to lynch you if you wouldn't do it for yourself? You're right, you can't just pull out a Role PM. Try to defend yourself. Do some scumhunting. There

is

no "Get out of lynch free card" in this game, however much you feel at loss when it comes to defending previous scummy behavior.

Idon't get your point with deflection. Mine is that just because NB was also lurking it doesn't get you off the hook(, and just makes you seem scummier). If you want to build a nice little case on him, that's a somewhat different story.

We are scumhunting today. The fact that

you

are playing scummily does not mean that the problem is on

our

end, but, whatever your alignment, on yours.

[Pomegranate]

another good bet is that Nero is quite town.

if only the rest of you understood that.

Not that it matter what I think but I still find DH scummy and I'm starting to suspect Pom.

Any reason? (I smell a bit of OMGUS here, but I'll hold off until you you post again, and therefore have another chance to explain yourself.)

I do admit to tunnelling a bit, but I feel that it's justified.

[Pomegranate]

Oh hey, I missed that that was a lynch. Lovely.

[Pomegranate]

Good. We were right on Espy. That was a nice shot.

[Pomegranate]

No. I was trying to indicate that we shot Espy, and I was pleased that he was scum, without saying, "We shot Espy, and I'm pleased that he was scum!"

[Pomegranate]

What?

Zwets and I killed Espy last night. Clear enough?

[Pomegranate]

I could go for that too, but I think that there's no need for a quicklynch right now. We have time for this.

[Pomegranate]

We're at 3 votes... that's L-5. Are we really in danger of a quicklynch?

At the moment: No.
If the wagon continued at it current pace: Yes.

[Pomegranate]

Sorry Vezo AtE?

AtE= Appeal to Emotion.

(I have read the thread, but I'm a bit too lazy, and don't know if I really have the time to write the post I want to right now. Definitely by later tonight or tomorrow morning.)

[Pomegranate]

We're at 3 votes... that's L-5. Are we really in danger of a quicklynch?

At the moment: No.
If the wagon continued at it current pace: Yes.

Well, hey, that's a good thing, seeing as how Cooldog is probably scum.

Why are you "ehhhhhhhhhhhhh.........mayyyyyyybeeeee laterrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr ughhhhhhhhhh....cuz.....quicklynch and.....yeh." about this?

I'm not. I have seen people put at L-1 quickly for pressure, and hammered, within a few pages of a day starting.

I am however suspicious of CD. 625 is scummy, has the facts wrong, and is simply complaining about posting, without any actual content.

--

Surprisingly, the fact that Espy flipped scum, and the fact that Pom readily agreed to the target in the QT last night increases my scum read on her by about 5 percent.

Well, I'm not sure why, considering the fact that I stated explicitely in the thread that he was my second choice for a lynch, and I would be very pleased to see him go after NC. Since NC was lynched, I happily agreed to kill him. Where's the question?

--

No.

I didn't like Pom gloating. We already know Pom/zwet's roles.

I already said that it wasn't meant to be gloating. I would say that it was the equivalent of high-five-ing zwets at this point. That was the way it was supposed to be read. It's the sort of thing I would say in our QT if it wasn't locked at the moment.

--

I'm surprised to say that I'm pleased with Vezo's vote.

--

I see that zwet and Pom used their ability last night on Esp?...curious, who came up with the suggestion first?

Zwets. However, I will say that I was pretty busy, and didn't even make it one to MS from Wed. night to Fri. afternoon.

--

HoS: CD.

Will likely become a vote after the next VC, depending where he's at.

[Pomegranate]

V/LA until Saturday night- holidays & stuff.

[Pomegranate]

Who is against me hammering at this point?

[Pomegranate]

He's referring to me.

[Pomegranate]

I like LMP.

[Pomegranate]

VOTE: CooLDoG.

[Pomegranate]

and that made no sense

[Pomegranate]

fun fun fun! the cooldog wagon was so bullshit, though. We'll see how it goes.

You suggested vigging him last night, after Espy.

[Pomegranate]

Oh, and I did

not

kill zwets or anything... I have a bad feeling the mafia are trying to frame me or something. We killed Looker.

[Pomegranate]

I am still massively surprised we haven't lynched Jack yet.

And oh, look, Pom disappeared again

Since when have you suspected me this game? IIRC, the answer is never.

[Pomegranate]

I dunno, Jack feels a lot like he usually does to me. I mean, it's undoubtedly a scummy playstyle IMO, but he plays town like that.

[Pomegranate]

But I think CKD is also town. Town vs. Town, I think it is.

[Pomegranate]

Jack isn't today's lynch. Whether he's a lynch maybe tomorrow, or sometime afterward is up for debate.

[Pomegranate]

V/LA until Sunday morning.

V/LA party at the hotel! Noted.

[Pomegranate]

UNVOTE: vollkan
I'll come back to this when people are more willing to listen.
VOTE: Jack
just iso'd him. 74 posts and next to no content. Most of his posts are useless one liners. Definitely not pro-town play.

That's slightly better (although he doesn't seem to realize that Jack isn't being lynched today).

[Pomegranate]

Blah.

I'm to busy (and a bit lazy) to read everything that's gone on in the last few pages.

If it's necessary, I plan to vote Prana before deadline over Jack. I'll iso him tomorrow.

[Pomegranate]

Silver is the best lynch for the day(, even though he could be scummier).

VOTE: Silverbullet999

[Pomegranate]

@Mod- I am requesting replacement. I cannot handle mafia right now.

Sorry to hear that, Pom. I'll start looking for someone else.

[Pomegranate]

guys, everyone played great... if vollkan were lynched earlier, it would have been harder ro convince everyone that in my neighborhood we were both town. On the other hand, I think that mafia made a big mistake killing the tracker (meaning they knew he was not jailed)... If I were you, I would have killed LMP on night3, and then I would have denied to be a jailer... that could have been a nice wifom...

well, anyway, a third pary win deserves a:

YEEEEAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!

@mod: I think that CKD and LMP deserve the title of "best town" ex aequo.

I congratulate you greatly. Brilliant play, lewarcher!

I recall playing with you once before (though I can't remember the game). I think you were basically a newbie then; it was a long time ago. I think you've improved greatly since then.

I really didn't want to replace out, but schoolwork was just too much for me, and I was quickly falling behind this game due to its size. I agree that I was scummy, but I like to think that I contributed to your win, at least minimally.

I'm not sure why zwets never gave me any trouble, but I tried to use it to my advantage. I was thrilled when he didn't care about who I killed, and when he died shortly thereafter it became a non issue.



Great job Lew. Superspecialawesome!

[Pomegranate]

It was this game- https://www.mafiascum.net/archive/viewt ... 0#p1848462. It was my first game as scum, and we (the scum) managed to lose very badly.

Hopefully we'll play together sometime in the future, though.