Mafia on Holy Orders (Game Over!)

[Furcolow]

agar, tone the ad hom down or i'll take it up with the mod

[zwetschenwasser]

*rolls eyes* I want to see fate and furcolow in a game together. I find the ms wagon a lot easier to buy than the fur or pacman suspicions.

[curiouskarmadog]

Ok, got a little more time to read, typing as I am going, left off at page 10, starting page 11.

255,

Well, I have no idea about why did vezok ping into my scumdar. He has posted nothing yet
But, why did AGar vote him?

strange statement, atp in the game, I found vezok leading in scumminess.

Page 12-13 friend and fate(town) go back in forth. In friend’s defense, I don’t have a clue what fate is talking about and he is coming off like a VI.

vote: furcolow

you are a terrible player

jesus fucking christ….you should be embarrassed by your play this far in the game.

Guess he trys to explain his actions in 305

313

ok, guys, i'm going to go ahead and claim
I am just a townie. This wagon on me will be a mislynch if I am lynched. I wanted to act blue and draw a hit to help our team, but this pressure is unfounded and unwanted.

a claim already? I don’t think he is scum, just a really really horrible player…now he could be a horrible player as scum, but I am doubting it. There is absolutely nothing good about your play if you are town..NOTHING

Page 14, wraith(town) starts to get steam.

346, SP vote
348, Iec vote
349, Friend vote
352, Fate (town)
358, Socrates, vote

With no real reason.

367,

Wraith's play as of late does not sit well with me... as has been pointed out by others.

Unvote, Vote: Wraith

What reason? Moth thinks this is a good wagon have the rush of 5 votes?....bullshit, scum meter just bounced a little here.

I think the Vezo wagon developing at the end of page 17 (but I know it doesn’t go anywhere)

As of 428, vezo and wraith are both at -3, what changed?

436,

After that votecount, I'm a whoooole lot more comfortable being with the people on the Wraith wagon than the vezo wagon.

unvote, vote: Wraith

Just noting, might be the tipping vote.

Zwet, in 442.

453...interesting.

Ok, so I received a PM from the mod that my latent abilities will be replaced by new active abilities come the beginning of day 2. I can only assume this came from an action on the part of someone else. For the record, my latent abilities were the PR and the red-posting. I still don't know what the active abilities will be. I'm still forbidden to claim.

488, Socio, with a fake hammer?....if that is what he was doing, it was a cool move…but anyone with a brain knew he was already on the wagon….

Pac hammers in 530, with horrid reasoning

UH, WHAT?..lol, game is nightless?..time to reread the rules.

“. What is it? Something that doesn't apply to this game. This game is Instant Night.”
“5. Can the Mafia talk to each other during the Day? Yes.”

Ok........so Fate probably scared someone, because he wasn’t looking like a townie to me atp.

EDIT: Fate threatened Vezo, and then Furc..with vigging...

551,

I can speak now! Hurray!

noted....so i guess i am to assume that if you went by your PR for a day, you got some ability

554,

Me=Weird is giving me bad vibes.
He is for a furc lynch even when he say yesterday I have to die. For now furc is scummiest. This may change though.

Vote Furcolow

yeah, M=W is giving you bad vibes, but you will join him on the biggest wagon anyway....WHY IS THIS PLAYER NOT LYNCHED!?!?! Actions speak louder than words.

----

Just going to break the reread so this isn’t a huge post. (end page 23)

at this point, I am pretty sure Vezo is scum, moth looks scummy, and now Friend, pac and zwet are rubbing me wrong....yeah, i know it is a fucking giant net, hoping I can narrow down before I finish.....right now, in this read, vezo should be the leading wagon, yet looking at current voting...not happening...cant wait to see why.

[Iecerint]

I like CKD's post a lot.

Vote: vezo

I reread Sebguer's 6 posts from ages ago, since there seemed to be a disproportionate amount of clamor about them. The Furc policy lynch is terrible, but it doesn't seem proportional to the scrutiny it warranted.

[curiouskarmadog]

603,

vezok is playing to town meta.

game link please..

(entire game) Furc, it is really hard to read you..town or scum, you are just a bad player…

I replace in 649.

I am feeling Plum’s frustration and beginning to see why Ani replaced out.

OMG, there are so many silly ass bullshit posts.

750,

my PR was removed by circumstances unbeknownst to me. I am forbidden to claim until the mod tells me I can, and I can tell you that I am not the physical manifestation of anything (which narrows it down a lot, obviously)

Sooo, your PR was removed, but you don’t know why….but you cant claim….not asking you to, but what happens if you do? What happens if you claim what you are not?

Page 31

@ friend, what is your case on Seb…if you felt he was scummy all this time, why not vote him versus all of your other vote hopping? How was Seb play scummy…his ISO was a couple posts, so it shouldn’t be hard to come up with a couple points. Also, Zwet was asking you for a direct answer, and instead of helping him scum hunt, you avoid and don’t answer the question directly, how is that pro-town?

Uhhhh, Chrono replaces in 805 (1:54pm), and is caught up an hour later….wtf? am I a slow reader?

Ok, caught up…

Going to meta Vezo really fast.

Most likely my vote will fall on Vezo….but it can easily be on Friend…..moth still looks scummy as well, the others (pac and zwet) are dropped to neutral.

[curiouskarmadog]

well shit, if you go by a quick meta, it appears that Vezo's play is indeed town..

as scum, he did not vote as much (could only find one game) and appeared to be reserved getting involved with wagons. As town, or even a town power role, he tends to vote hop....adding more content if he is a power role then a vanilla...going to look a little more closely..and reread him in this game. My gut says he is scum, but this meta does say otherwise...

not going to vote quite yet....also want to look over friend and moth again....should be voting today or tomorrow.

[Iecerint]

OK, well, w/e. I am your slave in the short term.

[Furcolow]

Furc,

it is really hard to read you

..town or scum,

you are just a bad player

…

Anyone else believe the bold and italicized parts make a sort of oxymoron?
Mafia as a game has a goal of people not being able to read you. If people don't know you're blue, or if they're blue/green and they don't know you're scum, and can't "read you", that's a good thing.

You saying this, curiouskarmadog, just shows me you haven't read up on my play. My play is the most blatantly obvious because I actually post like a human being.

[Furcolow]

There is absolutely nothing good about your play if you are town..NOTHING

im obvious
how is that not good?
town can follow my lead blindly.
this

is

mafia on holy orders, after all

[Friend]

Socrates brought up some good points about Seb's scumminess somewhere. I liked them.

[Furcolow]

Socrates brought up some bad points about my scumminess somewhere. I didn't like them. That makes me doubt anything he says somewhat.

[zwetschenwasser]

CID: I can claim something I'm not if I want to. I'm not sure why you asked that question, though.

[Socrates]

830 is soggy with a copious amount of town juice.

All of my reads are probably wrong. I should start over.

[SpyreX]

I'm right here, SpyreX ^.^

[Vi]

Vote Count XVII

~ News from above!

pacman (L-4) ~ Plum, Socrates,

Friend,

vezokpiraka, SocioPath

Furcolow (L-5) ~ mothrax, pacman, Chronopie
mothrax (L-6) ~ AGar, Friend
Me=Weird (L-7) ~

Iecerint,

Locke Lamora
Plum (L-7) ~ zwetschenwasser
vezokpiraka (L-7) ~ Iecerint

Not Voting:

Locke Lamora,

curiouskarmadog, Me=Weird, Furcolow

AGar 0 | Chronopie 1 | Me= 2 | Friend 0 | Furc 0 | Iece 0 | Locke 0 | mothrax 1 | pacman 0 | Plum 3 PROD1 5 | ckd 0 | Socio 0 | Socrates 0 | vezo 0 | zwet 0

-Plum is (edit: not) being prodded...

-The world seems darker around zwetschenwasser as of post 750...

-A small glow surrounds pacman as of post 789...

-A small glow surrounds curiouskarmadog as of post 830...

--With 15 alive, it will take 8 to lynch.

Battery power:

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(65%)

[Plum]

My spam was so that a hypothetical player in charge of warm/yucky light messages could give us information about how to interpret them, if you didn't quite follow what I was doing.

I have an exam tomorrow, but will do your exercise after that.

Yes, but I felt that too substantial a portion of your play was mechanics-focused as opposed to scumhunting focused. Reading you in ISO that feeling is tamped down a bit but some things are still a bit odd.

Vote: Beefster

. He was my favorite wagon yesterday until Wraith's shenanigans.

Where did the LL vote play into all that, then?

AGAR: The mothrax case looks fairly decent, though I admit the only part that moves me so very much is the fact that he strongly attacked ani for pushing a policy lynch at all (the rest is less conclusive and would seem to go either way, and I'm not seeing too heavy a contradiction).

Funnily enough, about a month ago, I'd crucify you for asking for this.

Hmmmm, hmmmm. Rings honest, slight townread on those sentences.

LL

, what's your read on me now/as of page 28?

Scums: Vezo, I've already said why. His posts since then haven't helped him. Furcolow. I've also said why for him. And I guess Friend, but I'm about to check into him. Either a case will be up, or a different scumpick.
Town: You. That post is why.

What about that post rang Townie to you?

Our problem this game: The town is WAY TOO SPLIT
Our solution: consolidate around Furcolow

Let me be your voice of reason lol

It's sad, but I have heard worse ideas.

especially =/= because

Your pendantry amuses me.

And me as well, but against my will my read on Friend has shifted from scummy to just plain afsbjdglsj[p;efjbe;.

scumreads should be obvious:
Furc for the reasons previously listed. His actions late D-1 are redic. And his defense is weak at best.
AGar- Regardless of actions, he seems to be acting as Plum!lapdog. His hipocracy in rtfts is also noted.
Other than that, You and Soc are up there... this whole cry for help/unison while on the surface, townish, reads as almost rehearsed, like scum planned it out.
And as for townreads, you aren't priviledged enough to have that.

Why is Soc one of your scumreads?

Furc IS Town, unless I'm much mistaken.

VOTE: PACMAN

I THINK MY WORK HERE IS DONE.

Marry me?

Say it IN CAPS LIKE YOU MEAN IT.
OR IT WOULD NEVER WORK OUT.

MARRY ME???

I like CKD's intro post, goes a fair way towards mitigating the Sebguer read.

Sebguer's play was scummy. Just because a replacement comes in and acts less scummy doesn't change that.

Yes, but if a replacement comes in and acts actively Town it can be a legitimate basis for revising or revisiting a scumread.

Syntax? Tone? How the hell does this part of your attack work?
In fact, I wasn't totally sure about Wraith. It was annoying to see him just whining about don't caring about the game anymore. It was scummy too, and altough I made the wrong call there, his attitude was really hurting us. His defense posts were just, either trying to push the other wagon, or AtEing on the form of "oh well lynch me and see me flip town". NOT putting good reasoning on either way.

The post above me is AtE. No good.
Blergh, no idea on what to do. I'm not hammering wraith; his actions while over pressure haven't been good, but vezo's deffenses were poor, even for such a poor wagon as his was at the beginning.

"I'm not hammering Wraith" reads "I don't want to be saddled with the stigma of having hammered Wraith" (yes, there's a degree of subjectivity here, but a phrasing like "I don't want to vote Wraith because I'm not very sure at all he's scum". Moreover instead of explaining at all the you doubted he was scum you throw out a weakish attack on someone else to justify staying off the wagon - it did not seem like sincere doubt, but more like you'd not reached a conclusion within yourself whether it would be better to hammer Wraith despite the consequences on increased scrutiny Day 1 or whether it would be better to bolster the Vezo wagon and if Wraith would go, someone else would take the scrutiny. Spending your vote the entire day on Furc (as opposed to say Vezo, whom you also suspected and was an alternate wagon with potential, unlike Furc) gives me bad feelings about the sincerity of your scumhunting in this game as a whole. Together these give the impression of a scumbag who doesn't want the blame of hammering Wraith but not really because he doubts his read on Wraith, just because he's still debating whether Vezo is a better wagon, whoile voting Furc over both of them. The continued reiteration of the same points on Wraith seem to be there to justify a potential jump to the Wraith wagon while never seeming to come to new thoughts or conclusions over whether this major wagon was worth your vote or not. Seriously, every time you say 'he's AtEing but I'm still unsure and anyway (player) is being scummy so I dunnnnno'. Every one. This rings of scum unsure whether he wants to commit to the wagon that late, not Town actively trying to figure out whether Wraith is or isn't scum. Anyway, when did you go from 'Wraith is scummish but I'm unsure' to 'Wraith

Also, many of her points are based on "tone". Is it more of the hunch-type, or is there something that can be explained here? And if the second, explain.

Second, and done above.

You name a top 3 scum, to vote someone outside the top 3. Why are you voting me then?

This feels scummy to me. It shows that pacman wasn't reallly paying attention to the thread and tries to invalidate Soc's vote.

unvote, vote: Pacman

Not to mention he didn't notice that Zwets meant to vote me when he voted Vi. Also, caught skimming Pacman's ISO:

@Soc: I thought tiny text was forbidden.

Hoping for a Modkill? It can be read different ways; this at least is mostly gut but I dislike it muchly.

Everyone categorically dismissing meta as a tool: You're partly right, but meta does have a place and denying that it does at all is ridiculous. Some people have playstyle things they do as both Town and scum, for example. Those are nulltells, even if in general they could be considered scumtells. I think denying the thoughtful uses of meta is an easy way to dismiss and argument without arguing it.

SPYREX????

I'll hold to CKD's quickmeta of Vezo as a decent reason to hold my overwhelming desire to suspect him for the moment.

[Plum]

EBWOP: NO NEED TO PROD, Vi!

[Me=Weird]

I've been too busy lately. Catch-up post tomorrow, I'll look into mothrax and pacman. I think we may have found our mystery player, spyrex,

[Plum]

Uh, no; I saw what Spy originally posted and it was basically Vi's votecount above; Spy's the backup Mod, so.

And I would delete that post except phpBB3, etc. ~Vi

[Me=Weird]

Oh.

[Iecerint]

@ Plum -- IIRC, this is what happened.

Beefster posts something.
LL votes Beefster for crap reasons.
Beefster responds with crap.
I vote Beefster for the 2nd crap (Beefster's), since I didn't notice LL's crap the first time.

Then later on, I notice LL's crap and vote him for it.

Possible early game distancing between them if one flips scum idk.

[pacman281292]

Syntax? Tone? How the hell does this part of your attack work?
In fact, I wasn't totally sure about Wraith. It was annoying to see him just whining about don't caring about the game anymore. It was scummy too, and altough I made the wrong call there, his attitude was really hurting us. His defense posts were just, either trying to push the other wagon, or AtEing on the form of "oh well lynch me and see me flip town". NOT putting good reasoning on either way.

The post above me is AtE. No good.
Blergh, no idea on what to do. I'm not hammering wraith; his actions while over pressure haven't been good, but vezo's deffenses were poor, even for such a poor wagon as his was at the beginning.

"I'm not hammering Wraith" reads "I don't want to be saddled with the stigma of having hammered Wraith" (yes, there's a degree of subjectivity here, but a phrasing like "I don't want to vote Wraith because I'm not very sure at all he's scum".

[Call it briefing my words. I wasn't sure about the sense on the Wraith wagon, but his later actions convinced me of hammering]

Moreover instead of explaining at all the you doubted he was scum you throw out a weakish attack on someone else to justify staying off the wagon

[I was trying to state what I thought of the other active wagon (vezo's - I often try to post thoughts in all the active wagons when I have them, in order to not throw myself into tunneling)]

- it did not seem like sincere doubt, but more like you'd not reached a conclusion within yourself whether it would be better to hammer Wraith despite the consequences on increased scrutiny Day 1 or whether it would be better to bolster the Vezo wagon and if Wraith would go, someone else would take the scrutiny.

[I don't get exactly what you said there, sorry]

Spending your vote the entire day on Furc (as opposed to say Vezo, whom you also suspected and was an alternate wagon with potential, unlike Furc)

[In fact, my suspiciousness on vezo started to rise late D1, as during early D1 I saw vezo as just being lurking. On the meanwhile, I felt Furc suspicious, so my vote stayed with him the whole day]

gives me bad feelings about the sincerity of your scumhunting in this game as a whole. Together these give the impression of a scumbag who doesn't want the blame of hammering Wraith but not really because he doubts his read on Wraith, just because he's still debating whether Vezo is a better wagon, whoile voting Furc over both of them.

[I admit the blame on Wraith's hammer. It was a mistake, but Wraith's denial of the game was being totally unhelpful, and that was just starting to make us blabber around nothing]

The continued reiteration of the same points on Wraith seem to be there to justify a potential jump to the Wraith wagon while never seeming to come to new thoughts or conclusions over whether this major wagon was worth your vote or not. Seriously, every time you say 'he's AtEing but I'm still unsure and anyway (player) is being scummy so I dunnnnno'. Every one. [

In order to avoind falling into tunneling, and in order to not to miss any big thing]

This rings of scum unsure whether he wants to commit to the wagon that late, not Town actively trying to figure out whether Wraith is or isn't scum. Anyway, when did you go from 'Wraith is scummish but I'm unsure' to 'Wraith

[Incomplete thought... Might complete?]

Also, many of her points are based on "tone". Is it more of the hunch-type, or is there something that can be explained here? And if the second, explain.

Second, and done above.

I got it. Explanations above too.

You name a top 3 scum, to vote someone outside the top 3. Why are you voting me then?

This feels scummy to me. It shows that pacman wasn't reallly paying attention to the thread and tries to invalidate Soc's vote.

unvote, vote: Pacman

Not to mention he didn't notice that Zwets meant to vote me when he voted Vi. Also, caught skimming Pacman's ISO:

I meant that that post made no sense. Also, I didn't get that part either.

@Soc: I thought tiny text was forbidden.

Hoping for a Modkill? It can be read different ways; this at least is mostly gut but I dislike it muchly.

Not looking for a modkill. Just annoyed at the tiny text. Don't make a mountain out of a molehill there...

Everyone categorically dismissing meta as a tool: You're partly right, but meta does have a place and denying that it does at all is ridiculous. Some people have playstyle things they do as both Town and scum, for example. Those are nulltells, even if in general they could be considered scumtells. I think denying the thoughtful uses of meta is an easy way to dismiss and argument without arguing it.

Well, I mean, the ones using meta as an argument here are using it AS THEIR ONLY ARGUMENT. meta + any other valid argument might actually enforce the argument, but meta as the only argument on something (like an obvtown read) or meta used in self-defense are full of WIFOM.

SPYREX????

I'll hold to CKD's quickmeta of Vezo as a decent reason to hold my overwhelming desire to suspect him for the moment.

[Plum]

Pacman: I see your explanations in response to me. It doesn't change my opinion of the instances I called out very much. Your interpretation is clearly along the lines of the impression you initially tried to give off, but it doesn't change the fact that when I read the statements themselves I see the very possible scum motivations for them.

[pacman281292]

Pacman: I see your explanations in response to me. It doesn't change my opinion of the instances I called out very much. Your interpretation is clearly along the lines of the impression you initially tried to give off, but it doesn't change the fact that when I read the statements themselves I see the very possible scum motivations for them.

Yep. I did see possible scum motivations there too. But, I did see town motivations as well, which were the ones which made me post that.

[Plum]

Mhm. You've not convinced me that they're not scummy, though; I'm sorry.