Open 245 - Mini Love - Scum win!

[quadz08]

/confirm

[quadz08]

VOTE: ZeroFang purely to draw attention to his MIGHTILY AWESOME AVATAR.

[quadz08]

I'm gonna kickstart the game a bit, and toss in some RQS.

1. Lynch all lurkers?
2. Lynch all liars?
3. RQS or RVS and why?
4. Favorite previous game?

[quadz08]

Well, I guess we know Battousai's answers to #3 haha.

[quadz08]

A: Yes.

[quadz08]

1. Lynch all lurkers?

Depends why they're lurking

2. Lynch all liars?

Depends why they're lying.

Care to explain?

[quadz08]

Yes, good idea. "Getting nowhere, let's get going with MORE RVS! WOOO!"

[quadz08]

Well, then explain. Serious vote without explanation is far worse than random-vote during Day 1.

[quadz08]

Which you answered, without complaint.

[quadz08]

What, you expected your answers to provide an immediate start to the game? Come on, now.

[quadz08]

Quad's Q's only sparked discussion of his Q's usefulness. All in all, RQS only has any usefulness because there isn't a consensus on its validity. The questions themselves are irrelevant. And in the end, Day 1 will slump because of the RQS. RVS creates more content.

Unless you've got some examples, that's purely speculation. Day 1 will only slump if we let it slump.

QFT. And in my (admittedly limited, though apparently less limited than yours) experience, RQS has worked better than RVS.

[quadz08]

Wow, andrew. Just... wow. Chill out, dude, or I can guarantee that many a policy lynch is in your future, likely including one in this game. You're currently at the top of my list, for being so amazingly anti-town.

In fact, VOTE: andrew94.

[quadz08]

See Battousai, you want him out of the game whether or not he's scum. Townies don't care who's an ass or not. They want to hunt scum. If he's ruining the game for you, you can ask him to be nice, ask him to replace out (which you have), or replace out yourself. Don't vote people just because they piss you off. That's worse than OMGUS voting, and it's scummy.

I disagree. For one, Battousai DID ask him to be nice/say he'd replace out himself. Second, Day 1 is the time to get rid of anti-town players, and right now, andrew is the very definition of anti-town. I'm not ready to vote for him myself, but I absolutely will if he keeps this up, and nobody pops up as particularly scummy.

[quadz08]

andrew94 (5): Zed, Tasky, quadz08, Battousai, Mokujin_
Battousai (2): andrew94, ZeroFang
Tasky (2): WingsOWisdom, tvellalott
ZeroFang (1): drmyshottyizsik
Mokujin_ (1): GarethByrd
Tvellalott (1) : don_johnson

12 alive, 7 to lynch

*facepalm* crap. I did forget. Sorry, guys; this is what happens when you're in two games that started at the same time, are paying attention to two others in which I'm dead, and am taking 20 units. I apologize for that.

i see you havent paid much attention, he said 'dont be a dick' and he cant stand me, he didnt say im anti town.

Perhaps he didn't explicitly state it, but it seems pretty clear to me that he thinks it. And I certainly do.

[quadz08]

@Mod: I would like to have Mokujin_ replaced (and possibly banned) for his comments in 131, 133, and 136. I find them highly offensive and bigoted.

[quadz08]

If he was joking, then alright. But I gotta say, it didn't come across as a joke to me.

[quadz08]

I'm so confused... I swear he was listed as male when I posted that. *is now completely lost*

[quadz08]

because I thought he was being bigoted. That has nothing to do with the game itself.

[quadz08]

y'know, being considered the best lynch for today doesn't exactly put you in a prime position to dictate lynch candidates.

[quadz08]

Quite the opposite, in fact. If you flip town, we'll know that you had no knowledge of other players' alignments, and (to be blunt) you haven't exhibited much skill at discovering said alignments either.

[quadz08]

@Mod: I apologize for that; I seem to have been mistaken in my interpretation of his posts. I have no problem continuing in this game.

On that note, I'd also like to apologize to Mokujin_ for that; I misinterpreted your words, and I'm truly sorry if I offended you.

/goes back to game

nah, you can look at the ppl on wagon, the ppl off the wagon and reactions etc

None of which has anything to do with how good of a scumhunter you are, or how inclined we are to listen to a list of people you want lynched.

[quadz08]

I feel that andrew's play is making it essentially impossible to scumhunt, in all honesty. I think he's our best lynch for today, in order to ensure our future productivity in scumhunting, once we have more information after the night.

[quadz08]

I don't think he's worth keeping around. If he really is the doctor, the chances of him making a correct save are essentially nil anyway.

[quadz08]

I don't think he's worth keeping around. If he really is the doctor, the chances of him making a correct save are essentially nil anyway.

What the hell are you talking about, there is no correct save. There aren't any other PRs.

Uhhh..... what? By correct save, I mean protecting the player the mafia targets.

It wouldn't surprise me if the mafia did leave him alive, honestly.

Andrew, you have no case on either of them. Make a serious, legitimate case, and I'll consider it.

[quadz08]

andrew, you really don't know what you're doing, do you? I like Mokujin's idea from 210.

[quadz08]

I feel that andrew's play is making it essentially impossible to scumhunt, in all honesty. I think he's our best lynch for today, in order to ensure our future productivity in scumhunting, once we have more information after the night.

It's already been suggested that he be replaced, and I put forth the suggestion that we ignore him for the most part. There's no need to lose our uncounterclaimed doctor (no matter how scummy or annoying), and if he is a doctor he'll die tonight anyway. I still maintain that townies will want to lynch scum, with the scum wanting to lynch anyone but other scum. I see this as opportunistic scum trying to set up a wagon on a rowdy townie.

UNVOTE: VOTE: quadz08

As I've said before, I consider him essentially useless as a doctor anyway. Doctor seems to me like a very difficult role to play, and I have very, very little confidence in Andrew's ability to play it correctly. If Andrew is lynched today, we make our lives much easier for the rest of the game, as well as be able to get more information from tonight's NK than we would if scum killed the claimed doc.

Now, just as clarification (I thought I had written this before, but I appear to be mistaken) I'm not saying we should lynch him over somebody who's decently scummy. I just don't think there's really anyone who's particularly scummy, yet. I'm also not calling for an immediate lynch; I want to be able to use this Day to try to find scum for as long as we can. However, I'm more than willing (obviously) to lynch Andrew if a real scum candidate doesn't come up.

[quadz08]

I suppose my ultimate motivation for it is thus: Do you REALLY want him in endgame? And when else will we be able to afford lynching him?

[quadz08]

How is he out of the game if we don't lynch him and the mafia doesn't kill him?

[quadz08]

andrew94 (4): Zed, Tasky, quadz08, Battousai,
quadz08 (2): tvellalott, ZeroFang
Battousai (1): andrew94
Tasky (1): WingsOWisdom
ZeroFang (1): drmyshottyizsik
Mokujin_ (1): GarethByrd

Not voting (2): don_johnson, Mokujin_

12 alive, 7 to lynch

Deadline Wednesday 29th September, 10PM GMT

Still looking for a replacement for Battousai

So your plan, I gather, is to see if he's killed tonight, and if he's not, then he's suspect #1 tomorrow?

[quadz08]

No, don, just trying to make my thoughts known. I just don't think it's that much of a stretch for mafia to leave him alive. I think his value as a tool for confusion/distraction could be more powerful than his claimed PR.

[quadz08]

... alright. That makes sense. I've never played an open game before, so I guess I just wasn't thinking about it the right way.

UNVOTE:

[quadz08]

Yeesh. Show a little restraint please.

Stay classy, mafiascum.

[quadz08]

VOTE: andrew

He's at L-2 now, by my count.

I await his replacement eagerly.

[quadz08]

I feel so bad for whoever replaces him. Scum or not, they're pretty screwed.

QFT.

[quadz08]

Just posting to check in/avoid a prod. School and other things hit hard recently; I'll make content ASAP. Sorry!

[quadz08]

If you would keep reading, you'd see that I admitted to my mistake. As I've said, this is my first Open game, and I hadn't thought of the implications of an open setup.

[quadz08]

Hey, just letting everyone know that I'm officially declaring V/LA until this weekend. Attack of the homeworks. :/ Sorry!

[quadz08]

I'm with shotty on this one. VOTE: Tasky

Are you serious? You're just gonna switch to whoever's got the largest wagon? Super-town play, there.

Tvell, you're second. Lurking isn't doing town any favors.

Zero: I agree that getting lynched as a VT is bad for town. However, survivalism is worse. It prevents us from getting information. And as Wisteria pointed out, lovers have no need to be survivalist until the treacherous lover is killed. It's actually pretty terrible play to do so, in my opinion.

[quadz08]

i agree with the quadz=oppurtunistic. i don't see much on tasky that doesn't apply to everyone else.

Really? You don't see this:

so if i vote for some one and it gets more votes than this wagon will you switch again?

probably.

as scummy? As different than what others are doing?

I may have voted for the same person as shotty, but that's because I think his points are good. Not because Tasky is the biggest wagon. Biiiiiig difference.

[quadz08]

Also, quadz08, looking at you in ISO, I noticed that your sole focus on Day 1 was andrew94. As I understand it, you made this into a policy lynch because you believed that he would be a liability in LyLo. What is interesting to me is you were never able to call andrew94 scum or touch on the possibility that andrew94 was scum; it was almost as though andrew94 was just a lynch candidate rather than a scum candidate. Why is that?

This is essentially correct. Until the end of the day, when it was pretty obvious that he must be scum (i.e., after the doc cc) I didn't really find anybody scummier than anyone else. EVERYBODY was a null-read at that point; I rarely get good reads on D1. And IMHO, lynching someone that highly anti-town is almost better than lynching scum on D1.

All right. I have run through a few possibilities, and I think this is appropriate given a number of things. Of course, if I am about to do something incredibly stupid, I will hear you out in post-game discussion.

I claim lover with quadz08.

You just did something INCREDIBLY STUPID. Now that we're outed, if I'm NOT mislynched today, we're both dead tonight, pretty much for sure. Well done.

However, I do agree with wanting to hear all about this breaking strategy. I find it rather unlikely that it exists, especially after Wisteria's breakdown.

Tasky: Were you being serious in response to shotty's question?

[quadz08]

Tasky, please respond to my question.

[quadz08]

you mean this?
if that's it, well I was serious about wagoning until something happens. something has happened today. today we lynch you, then tomorrow I will bandwagon again until scum slips up again.

Yeah, that's what I was referring to. Do you plan on continuing that strategy the whole game? Simply mindlessly hopping on wagons? Because that's anti-town, at the very best. I like my vote where it is.

[quadz08]

No, you did. You said you would probably hop on the largest current wagon. That says "mindless" to me.

And no, I'm not. I said "anti-town at best." Very different than just plain anti-town.

[quadz08]

I have yet to see people jumping on the largest wagon for no reason other than its size catch any scum.

Let me fill in what I

thought

was implied: "anti town at best, scummy at worst."

[quadz08]

Here's my thought process: we should search for a goon, NOT a treacherous lover.

If we lynch Wisteria and I today (under the assumption that I'm scum) then you've lost both a townie and a scum-member. Lynch just a scum-member, and your odds are better from here on out.

If we lynch Wisteria and I today (under the assumption that I'm town) then we've lost two townies. That's a LOT in one fell swoop. Either way, it's more productive to search for a goon.

If we don't find a scummy enough candidate, then it would make no sense to lynch someone we don't suspect, so I would be the lynch. However, I think it's more prudent to search for a goon (i.e., someone NOT outed as a lover.)

[quadz08]

Currently, my suggestion is Tasky. However, I plan on re-reading and ISOing soon. If the person flips town, then my idea didn't work (obviously). If the person flips mafia, then we've lynched a goon.

Obviously, we'd have to find to someone scummy enough that the risk of lynching them is less than (my scumminess - your contributions/opinions).

[quadz08]

*facepalm*

Dammit, man. You couldn't even let any damn discussion go on about my perfectly valid, good idea? Ugh.

I still say look at Tasky; I'll try to get a re-read/brief ISOs before night falls, but I can't guarantee anything.

[quadz08]

Yes, I am.

[quadz08]

I agree.