Mini 1023 - City Watch Mafia - Game Over!

[TheButtonmen]

Your VV vendetta is quite silly.

Question, I get lynched and flip town will you bother to go back and read my case on VV or are you going to dismiss it?

By that I mean do you think what I'm saying isn't worth discussion because your sure I'm scum trying to mislead town or do you find my reasoning flawed?

You haven't made it clear where you stand on the matter.

VOTE COUNT

TheButtonmen (4): VasudeVa, Narsis, Budja, Chronopie
FakeGod (1): Thor665
Budja (1): Plum

Not Voting (3): TheButtonmen, jimfinn, FakeGod

With 9 alive, 5 is needed to lynch.
Deadline is Friday 17th.

[Budja]

I'm not convinced of you case regardless of your alignment.
I find your reasoning flawed, I am much more inclined to see VV's guilty on Tasky as a pro-town action rather than a bus.
Occum's razor and I've had a town read on him for a while anyway.
You are tunneling.

@Thor, read-yes, comprehended-no.

I think jim/Button is unlikely now. jim/FakeGod is possible.
Change of mind, ignore my last post save that^.
UNVOTE: VOTE: jimfinn
for connections.

[Plum]

To put it another way as to why Button is staying at second tier with me - I think scumButton might have been a bit more conciliatory at some point. The "attitude" towards you rings honest to me.

That

has been my issue with TBM overall. I would not have expected scum-TBM to be so confrontational towards a claimed Vimes Dayvig, towards one who called a guilty on Tasky, &c. Those are my major misgivings with the entire premise. That said, a reread of him would be useful for me. I'm trying to force myself to write a college-type essay right now, so.

[Thor665]

That said, a reread of [Button] would be useful for me. I'm trying to force myself to write a college-type essay right now, so.

I really hope the essay is not for this game - if so just post the thesis statement and we'll call it square.

@Budja - what don't you understand about my Button thoughts? I've stated them in two different ways already and Plum has now just sort of provided a third rewrite. I'll add (presuming you find meta tells worth the bytes they're encrypted on) that Button tends to be an aggressive player from what limited meta on him I have, and I honestly felt more scum energy towards him earlier in the game when he was quieter - that felt more Button scum to me. If you can narrow your confusion down maybe I can answer it better.

What's the jimfinn case again? I recall thinking he was town after some of the antics Day 1 and I haven't noticed anything new that I would call scummy from the slot.

[VasudeVa]

Well, I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks TBM is silly. Although, what makes you think that this attitude isn't scum motivated?

[Thor665]

@VV - was that question directed at me or someone else?

[VasudeVa]

To you and whoever thinks TBM is Town for his silliness. I may just be emotionally compromised with TBM, so convince me.

[Thor665]

I would stress meta awareness from another game we were in (and also seeing how he acts in MD).

This will be a slightly odd example, because I *was* scum in the game I'm noting, but in that game I opened with my usual RVS sentiments and used the phrase 'the RVS is now over' in a (in my opinion) obviously joking manner. TBM totally was all over my case for the rest of the Day phase and part of the next on that comment alone, he did this despite my dismissive attitude of the 'tell' and even with pretty much every obv. town player in the game calling him loony tunes for doing so. As town I would have really acted the same during RVS, and I found his whole concept to be silly and incorrect, but he's clearly a player willing to fight for the concept of what he believes is correct regardless of what other players say.

I'm not saying he's town.
I am saying that I could see townButton acting in the exact manner to your claim that I see him acting now - and that makes it less of a home run tell in my opinion.

That's why he's second for me - I *could* see him as town.
I *really* don't believe G's story about trying to lynch you in order to put some dirt on you in order to protect you from scum NKs. That story makes no sense to me. Hence he's over Button.

[Budja]

@Thor, I mean to say I missed it first time around. I get it now.

[VasudeVa]

I see. That makes sense, and is annoying.

What do you say about FG's claim though? That's the only thing preventing me from switching my vote. I know all about FG, I made that case on him. But the Dorfl claim makes it a little more than a no-brainer. I kind of wish that Tasky was here to at least fake-claim Sgt. Littlebottom or something.

[Thor665]

I've explained that it is my belief that the mod is not clearing town each and every day. Since you believe Chrono is telling the truth, town has night powers as well. I do not believe that in addition to auto-clearing town every day *and* giving them day powers, which are the most potent form of power in the game, that the mod would also then give town night powers and then have even one vanilla goon on the scum team. The appearance of a vanilla goon suggests that not all scum have powers - without all scum having powers I have a hard time believing the game is balanced if the day power is also an auto-confirm.

If you agree that it seems unlikely that the day power is an auto confirm then it is easy to suppose that Scum will also get day powers, but will get them for the falseclaims that are part of their roles (note the Cheery notation in Tasky's lynch - he was both scum Chyrophase and *also* a fakeclaim Cheery - make no doubt). So then we presume that if scum get a day power the day power will be granted to the falseclaim persona.

At that point the *only* thing that FG's Dorfl claim proves is that nobody else has the Dorfl role. That's ALL it proves, it is meaningless to alignment. So at that point you need to look at the rest of his play and decide whether or not you think he's a scummy or townish player.

[jimfinn]

@Thor: could we be looking at an 8:4 with a massively powerful town? That might explain the vanilla goon despite day and night town PRs

[Thor665]

@jimfinn - You're right, this is some strange 8:4 uber scum team vs. auto clearing bastard town mod setup. The problem is they haven't realized yet that they need to target the mod with their NK in order to win. Let me put it this way - odds are you are wrong either about the thought only townies become daypowers or you are wrong about Chrono being town.

Speaking of...

@Chrono - you alive man? I would love to hear your opinions, as our town PR, natch, as to the relevancy of the belief that only town are getting day powers.

[VasudeVa]

There are three lynch prospects today. Deadline is in three days. Everyone, rank your lynch-ables now. No equal signs.

Me: FakeGod>Buttonmen>>>>>jimfinn

Reasoning: I'll buy Thor's reasoning for now. We lynch TBM tomorrow, maybe. jimfinn reads to me as newbTown.

Vote: FakeGod

[FakeGod]

V/LA took longer than expected.

Still crazy busy, but quick read reveals that Thor's been doing nothing but tunneling on me, pulling threads about a conspiracy theory and trying to get VV support at all costs.

I hate to get lynched after a mod-confirm-un'ccd claim, especially when last two times (Mysterio and VV) mod gave powers to Vanilla Town. (Mysterio flipped Vanilla, and as far as I can tell, our JK saved VV from an attempted Night Kill, so VV is town, plus, my own situation, a Power-Received Vanilla Town, adds to the credibility if you look at it from my point of view)

In fact, one thing mafia would want to do is to discredit/lynch a mod-confirmed VT, and the exact argument they would make would be to argue WIFOM on how broken the game setup would be if mod were to confirm a townie every day.

Button is also guilty of this with his relationship with VV, and given the time-constraint, he's going to be our lynch today.

Vote: TheButtonmen

P.S. I'm using STRENGTH on Thor. lol

[molestargazer]

Chronopie is being prodded.

[Narsis]

P.S. I'm using STRENGTH on Thor. lol

why? by doing so you are removing one of the key ways that the town gains info.

[Chronopie]

/prodded.

What've I missed?

--

@Chrono - you alive man? I would love to hear your opinions, as our town PR, natch, as to the relevancy of the belief that only town are getting day powers.

Can you say broken/breakable setup? We could just wait for any awesome powers (like the day-Cop) and cruise by, with another confirmed townie each day.

--

Don't use Strength. (I think making someone voteless is kind of a dud power for a townie anyway.)

[FakeGod]

P.S. I'm using STRENGTH on Thor. lol

why? by doing so you are removing one of the key ways that the town gains info.

Seriously, what am I losing out? Thor made his stance clear and he wasn't going to change it any time soon.

[FakeGod]

Don't use Strength. (I think making someone voteless is kind of a dud power for a townie anyway.)

Telling me not to use Strength after me telling you I used it doesn't really work, dude.

Plus, you do realize you're just repeating what Thor said about the setup. Anything you want to

add

?

[Narsis]

P.S. I'm using STRENGTH on Thor. lol

why? by doing so you are removing one of the key ways that the town gains info.

Seriously, what am I losing out? Thor made his stance clear and he wasn't going to change it any time soon.

you may not necessarily be losing anything, but the town is losing out on information.

[FakeGod]

P.S. I'm using STRENGTH on Thor. lol

why? by doing so you are removing one of the key ways that the town gains info.

Seriously, what am I losing out? Thor made his stance clear and he wasn't going to change it any time soon.

you may not necessarily be losing anything, but the town is losing out on information.

Please share with me what kind of info the town's losing out on.

[Narsis]

P.S. I'm using STRENGTH on Thor. lol

why? by doing so you are removing one of the key ways that the town gains info.

Seriously, what am I losing out? Thor made his stance clear and he wasn't going to change it any time soon.

you may not necessarily be losing anything, but the town is losing out on information.

Please share with me what kind of info the town's losing out on.

who Thor would vote for, whether he'd switch his vote...etc. basically any information related to Thor's use of his vote. gotta put your vote where your mouth is...but now he cant.

[Chronopie]

Don't use Strength. (I think making someone voteless is kind of a dud power for a townie anyway.)

Telling me not to use Strength after me telling you I used it doesn't really work, dude.

Plus, you do realize you're just repeating what Thor said about the setup. Anything you want to

add

?

Yeah sure.

Given Series Flavour, I'd be reluctant to believe that Dorfl is town.

Nobby, Vimes - Both Important Characters in the books.
Colon, Angua, Carrot, Detritus - Other important Characters in the books

Dorfl... Not so much. Down there with

Cheery

, Stronginthearm, A.E Pessimal etc.

[FakeGod]

@Narsis: He wanted me lynched; hence his vote was on me.

He showed no intention of switching it, and deadline's in 4 days.


@Chrono: It's great that you know the flavor much more that I do.

Flavor Question: I wiki'd a bit and learned that Dorfl, like other golems, speak by pronouncing all of his words with capitalization. Is this true?

Because I breadcrumbed in my 327 (onset of day 2) this:

Why State Obvious Things? Just In Case Mafia Didn't Understood???

Capitalization of all words. Something (I hope) what Dorfl does in the series.

Since you know the flavor well, I take it that you saw the breadcrumb? (did anyone else?)

or are my wiki skills failing....