Open 250 - Pie E7 - Game Over! Scum Win

[SaintKerrigan]

/confirm

Congrats to CKD on the baby! Also, hi to all the folks I've played with before (and I think there's only one person here that I've not played with yet...I think).

Vote: nopointinactingup

, because my N0 kill on him failed, so Imma be trying this again.

Mod: Would you mind putting a player list in the first post or something? Would be very helpful to me, at least. Thanks in advance.

Mod Note: Done, player list added to write up also

[SaintKerrigan]

Confirm Random Vote: nopointinactingup

[SaintKerrigan]

Cause he said he was going to quit playing mafia and he's a LIAR.

I also said later that I'd likely do one more game before I left the site. Well, here's that game.

What does that npau first-vote mean? I mean, you confirmed it so

Just wanted to make sure my random vote got counted, tz'all.

[SaintKerrigan]

@St.K: I meant was there any real reason for choosing npau.

Nah. (Unless you want to make the argument that he was scum in the last game I played with him so my subconscious automatically defaulted to...yeah.)

[SaintKerrigan]

@ NPAU: My scumbuddy and I tried to nightkill you on N0 and it didn't go through, so now we're trying to lynch you. Clear things up for ya?

@ VP: Any particular reason for focusing the questions on one specific player?

[SaintKerrigan]

@ NPAU: My scumbuddy and I tried to nightkill you on N0 and it didn't go through, so now we're trying to lynch you. Clear things up for ya?

I'm gonna call you on this one.

Unvote: sottyrulez
Vote: St. Kerrigan

(L-1)

You think I'm telling the truth?

[SaintKerrigan]

Somewhat. I think you would be more likely to make this kind of joke as scum.

Explain why I would be more likely to make this joke as scum than as town.

[SaintKerrigan]

@ Vi: And what makes you assume that what I'm doing doesn't have town reasoning or isn't simply neutral-minded jesting?

[SaintKerrigan]

Vi, what intrigues me is how you look at me joking about being scum, and you automatically assume that I'm doing this, as scum, in order to make people think I'm town via correlation with the attitude of "Scum wouldn't do this, so he must be town." By default you preclude a town reason for my behavior because you fail to see any, and conclude that I'm just being unhelpful and lack the desire to lead the game anywhere.

In answer to the allegation that I'm doing this as scum, I first invite you to check your own linked example. If Emptyger was indeed trying to take advantage of this tactic, it backfired on him miserably. As for the second part of the allegation (where you allude to posting from a thread you can't find), you fail to establish that I'm scum trying to push the envelope with what I can get away with (you haven't even proven that I'm doing this as scum, instead choosing to link my instance with Emptyger's case and misconstrue a link from that). And finally, you arbitrarily rule out a town reason for what I'm doing by saying, "And I trust you're not the type who likes to claim NK-Immune Miller Vig for fun." This precludes the possibility that what I'm doing could be an less-orthodox town stratagem that you just haven't realized yet.

In answer to the allegation that there is no town reason for what I'm doing, then you simply aren't looking hard enough for one. They do exist.

And finally, in answer to the allegation that I'm not being helpful and am willing to lead the game anywhere, I find that very ironic considering that my antics have become the central topic of serious conversation, at least for now. How exactly is this not an attempt to be helpful or lead the game somewhere, hmm?

I do wish we had more people commenting on this, though. Arguments are much more productive when everyone says their piece.

[SaintKerrigan]

I knew Vi was scum since before I was lynched.

The whole scum-joking thing was for reaction-hunting purposes, and Vi fell quite cleanly into the net.

[SaintKerrigan]

Anyway, gg scum. Although I wish D1 would've gone on longer so I could explain what I was doing.

[SaintKerrigan]

That leaves either nopoint or sottyrulez as Vi's partner. I think the probability is higher for sottyrulez to be scum, because I don't think that npau-scum would popcorn his scumbuddy,

Oh, like I did?~

So I was wrong. To be fair, though, that wasn't the only reason why I suspected Sottyrulez over npau.

[SaintKerrigan]

(Sorry for the quadruple post, but I forgot that I wanted to post this.)

For Vi's amusement: the other game where I claimed scum.

[SaintKerrigan]

(Sorry for the quadruple post, but I forgot that I wanted to post this.)

For Vi's amusement: the other game where I claimed scum.

So I'm still trying to figure out what reasonable ground you had for thinking I was scum, without success.

It was the way you brought the argument about. Joking that I'm scum doesn't actually mean I'm more likely to be scum. What people are supposed to do is take it as a neutral joke and roll with it. But people like to latch on to this because of all the WIFOMy potential, and hence, why I used it. When I was scum, I played this to my advantage by maintaining that my actions were neutral, and left the other people to use their bias to determine how they wanted to color me. Here, I used it to provoke reactions from people to not only get the game moving, but also to analyze what they brought to the table. You not only refused to consider the possibility that I had town motivation, you made sure that my actions were painted as scummily as possible. It wasn't honest scumhunting, but rather the setting up of a mislynch.

It might've been more obvious if I'd had the time to finish gathering reaction data and then present my findings, but oh well.

@ Mod: I'd be up for a reroll of this.

[SaintKerrigan]

@ Vi: By "setting up a mislynch" I mean "making some other guy look nice for a noose," which is what a lot of scum tend to do in lieu of scumhunting, in my experience. And it wasn't that you were the first to push that got my attention. It was the way that you pushed.

Joking about being scum definitely creates WIFOM. But there are scum and town ways to make use of that, not to mention joking for the sheer hell of it, and that's why I view it as a neutral action that can't, by itself, conclusively prove someone's guilt or innocence. (Note: here I define "neutral" as "something that isn't definitively one alignment or the other.) Disagree with me if you wish, since the fact that people do disagree with this is what allows me to make use of it as a strategy in the first place.

[SaintKerrigan]

Also dammit stop voting for me already, peoples, you already know I'm not scum!

[SaintKerrigan]

I think I need to change my name to Anvil.

[SaintKerrigan]

So...any word on whether we're doing the reroll or not?