Mini 1057: Unsubsidized Mafia (Game Over!)

[Andrigan]

/confirm

[Andrigan]

Devon is pretty likely town.
No read on DH yet.

Devon most likely town? He doesn't have an avatar, which clearly makes him suspicious.

Vote: Devon

Also, Thor665, how can you have such a quick read on Devon, while claiming to have no read on DH?

[Andrigan]

Unvote: Devon

Yay avatar!!

[Andrigan]

[quote="Thor665"]
Why should I have a read on DH? Do you see something I missed?

Nothing strong yet. I was just trying to get a handle on your reasoning. Your comments about Devon make sense.

My avatar comment was RVS, though I was aware that it was on the cusp of ending given how quickly things progressed. I guess since it was my first post, and since I like the RVS, I wanted to at least get a quick shot in before it ended.

[Andrigan]

Drat. Sorry for the error. Meant to hit preview...

The first part should read

Why should I have a read on DH? Do you see something I missed?

[Andrigan]

VOTE: DemonHybrid most people who have played with me before know why

Sorry, I haven't played with you before, so why why why?!

[Andrigan]

I must admit I am a bit surprised at how hostile people have been to Far_cry. Even if he was being hypocritical by asking people to talk more or to say more substantive things (without doing so himself), I don't think this kind of hypocrisy is a scum-tell, nor even a sign of poor town play. It seemed like an innocent comment to get people in general to talk more given that we still have yet to hear from people at all so far. Moreover, in mafia I think that even banal comments such as "talk more" can have interesting consequences, and I think that it is right to conclude that the things Far_cry have said so far, as inconsequential as they may seem at face value, turned out to yield things of importance (namely, the defensive reactions to him by Thor, and some of the comments by nhammen). [I recognize that this last sentence is a shaky argument, so nothing should hinge upon it too much]

But getting back to the point, I guess my question for Thor is: What makes Far_cry's hypocrisy a scum-tell, rather than simply bad play-style? I ask this from you since you voted for him, rather than simply calling him in out on it. Nhammen agreed with your claims, but did not place a vote, so my question is not directed at him (though he is free to weigh in on it).

[Andrigan]

Why are you concerned with the "hostility" towards Far_Cry? I don't recall you being worried when I was voting Nexus - did you consider that a less "hostile" vote? Why/why not?

I considered the Nexus wagon less hostile given that it was early RVS, and I interpreted your vote as more of a trap to catch scum-tells from other players. However, when you shifted to Far_cry, you seemed more serious about it. This was concerning to me because I had believed that his apparent hypocrisy wasn't necessarily a scum tell (and more just a semi-botched attempt at getting people to talk).

Andrigan- What are your general thoughts? Anything that looks interesting to you?

Regarding my own stance on Nexus, the longer he waits to get back into the fray, the more suspicious I am becoming of him. I had expected Nexus to brush off the attacks as simple RVS and quickly move on, but he only became more defensive. From my view then, Nexus is the most suspicious person at the moment. Of course, this could just be his play-style or his inability to post due to time-pressure. Nonetheless, since I have nothing else to go on about him, I find him suspicious.

Right now, I am also waiting to hear from Jack to see what he has to say on page 5.

[Andrigan]

Andrigan: What do you think of Thor?

I was initially worried that he might be scum trying to quickly implant many small seeds of suspicion about people and let them run their course (against innocent townies). However, he has followed up on many of those seeds (instead of deflecting and planting more) which leads me to believe that instead he is planting traps for scum to fall into, rather than deliberately planing seeds of suspicion against townies.

[Andrigan]

Andrigan: What do you think of Thor?

I was initially worried that he might be scum trying to quickly implant many small seeds of suspicion about people and let them run their course (against innocent townies). However, he has followed up on many of those seeds (instead of deflecting and planting more) which leads me to believe that instead he is planting traps for scum to fall into, rather than deliberately planing seeds of suspicion against townies.

So very true. But why are you drawing attention to someone else's traps? If you identify them, shouldn't you let them lie hidden, to see if they catch someone? Also, why were you looking for traps in the first place?

Well, I didn't specify the traps I was referring to. But I will mention some that have already sprung since there is nothing to spoil anymore, namely the one in which he tried to get an early wagon going during RVS. I don't really see it as a problem to mention them if the traps are already out in the open for people to see (and Thor already admitted himself that he was searching for newb scum).

In response to your next question, I am looking for traps because the way I find scum is a mixture of town-hunting plus scum-hunting. If I can identify town like behavior, then I will be less suspicious overall of that person, unless shown otherwise. This narrows down my choices to select for scum (again assuming nothing else changes).

[Andrigan]

Jack, do you think you could post your thoughts on the game so far? It may be helpful for springing new discussion since we have not heard from you yet. I know you said you would wait until page 7, but I'm almost ready to create silly posts just to get to the 7th page to get your reads on people.

[Andrigan]

Speak of the devil...the 7th page!!

[Andrigan]

Sorry I've been sick this week, so I haven't had time to dissect carefully everything that has been written. However, as a starter,

Vote: Redtail896

This is mostly meta-gaming, but I find his playstyle to be far less investigative than he usually is. I will try and generate a more detailed case later, but I think his posts read to me as either trying to score town points with other townies (specifically his buddying with Thor), or very reactive/passive rather than engaged and scum-searching (this was early on). Again, I will have to go over his posts again with more care, but I wanted to get some material out there for people to think about (especially a vote).

I think Far_cry was suspicious of Redtail as well. Is this still the case? I know that Thor has presented some skepticism about Redtail being scum. But what do you think Far_cry now?

[Andrigan]

^ How very reactive (surprisingly)! I'm referring to the way I know how you play IRL! I like my vote where it is at the moment.

[Andrigan]

We might need to make a list of who isn't buddying with me in this game - why is that part of so many cases? Do I have a known meta for succumbing to buddying I should be aware of?

The buddying I am referring to is from this quote:

@Thor, I'm not voting DH because I'm deciding between him and signer. The "case" against you is so absurd that, if I didn't know better, I would consider it RVS.

The emphasis here seemed a bit stark for me. Even though I believe Thor is town, I'm not sure the case against Thor that Redtail is referring to is totally absurd or deserving of quotes around the word. This kind of certainty would seem characteristic of a cop had it been day 2, and the cop had already received a town reading for the person. Since it is day 1 and no cop investigations have taken place, I find Redtail's dismissal suspicious (as scum trying to score town points).