Open 252 -- Whoniverse Jungle Republic Game Over!

[zipperflesh]

Vote: JesseSheffield

Third vote on the wagon! I must be scum! :V

[zipperflesh]

Are you implying that we are both town.

[zipperflesh]

Are you implying that we are both town.

No, but I am implying that we policy lynch anyone who claims anything, ever.

I'm down with that bro.

If you're wondering what Commie is getting at you should look at Newbie #999 for the context.

[zipperflesh]

You may use that I am town.

:/

Unvote. Vote: Cogito Ergo sum

Let's see if we can prove/disprove that statement.

[zipperflesh]

I more concerned that Commie actually used that pic.

He also tried to touch me in the shower. >.>

[zipperflesh]

Unvote. Vote: Dry-Fit

Sha-Zam!

[zipperflesh]

I disagree with you on a few things. I am against claiming, for one.

What?

Can you explain what you disagree with?

(Provide quotes plOx.)

[zipperflesh]

I think you're readying way to much into that. Dry-fit is saying policy lynching everyone who claims is a bad idea, which it is. It is also a response to a joke from Commie, which was a reference to the last game we played together. In that newbie we had two townies fake claim power roles, needless to say we lost and it left a bad taste for random claims in our mouth.

[zipperflesh]

I don't see where Dry-fit has done anything that needs defending. I'm attacking you for saying you have a valid reason to be voting for him, which you have failed to provide.

[zipperflesh]

Zipper, he should speak for himself, and you shouldn't play with chainsaws because you might hurt yourself.

I suppose I shouldn't attack bad logic and fail-cases then.

What do you think about furcolow's reason for voting Dry-fit?

@furcolow: You said you disagree with other things Dry-fit has said, can you point those out as well?

[zipperflesh]

Considering the scenario we are in, we have a very good opportunity ahead of us to lynch either a mafia member or a werewolf. I am very suspicious of people who aren't being active and pro-town: yellowbounder, nightson, and dry-fit just to name a few. yellowbounder has 1 post. I am going to vote him. I will consider unvoting if he is replaced or explains himself well.

vote: yellowbounder

I'm having trouble understanding the concept of being "inactive & pro-town." Can you clarify?

Can you justify how yellow, nightson, and dry-fit fit in the category "inactive & pro-town?"

You said you were going to scumhunt, but you return with what amounts to a lurker/inactive vote. I see this as a cop-out, as you never presented any findings of actually scum-hunting.

Unvote. Vote:Furcolow

[zipperflesh]

EBWOP: I feel it's relevant to mention that in that game that was linked earlier, Zipper chainsawed the hell out of someone D1 (he was town).

However, I would prefer it if we could hear the person defend themselves first.

I see it as attacking bad logic and poor cases. Personally, I don't see where Dry-fit has done anything that needs defending by him or anyone else. Furcolow's attack on him was unjustifiable, an action I consider scummy.

Do you find Dry-fit scummy? Do you agree with Furcolow's accusations against him?

[zipperflesh]

For players to show how unfunny and unoriginal they are.

No, but in all seriousness the random vote stage and the votes placed in it usually mean absolutely nothing. It's how we get out of RVS that matters.

I have to disagree, the RVS is the base from which the entire game is built off of, and I have to agree with Commie, votes lead to discussion. Its the discussion that becomes relevant later, yes, but we would never get to that discussion without some random votes to start things off. Also, the RVS can be studied during the late game to decipher vote patterns, which can help town find scum.

[zipperflesh]

First off, get off my nuts and quit tunneling.
second off, I said they're being unhelpful and inactive when i said "who aren't being active and pro-town". You knew this. You are just being a difficult fuck.

First off: Start scum-hunting and I will.

Second off: I see what you mean now, I completely misread that the first time and will admit being wrong. That being said, there is no reason to be a dick. I think that qualifies as a genuine overreaction.

Third-off: Hunting for lurkers doesn't qualify as scumhunting. Try again.

[zipperflesh]

I don't find Dry-fit to be scummy at all. Which makes me wonder, why did you vote him in the first place zipper?

I had no reason. I was hoping to generate some discussion by increasing the wagon on him.

[zipperflesh]

"there is 4 people voting you"
you are really making me trust in this town...
regardless, 6 of you who will read this are town, and should consider having my back

Why? Can you give them a reason not to vote you?

I am not going to claim at L-3, so either get votes on me or off of me
There are people rampantly ruining this thread, not committing to actually scumhunting, and just senselessly bandwagoning.

These are obviously serious accusations. How about you point out who is doing these scummy actions.

If you all would just go analyze a game in which I am town you would realize that I am not a fucking werewolf or mafia

I fail to see how metagaming and wifom help your case. So far all you've done is random vote, attack lurkers, and overreact. Those could all be actions of a scum Furcolow or a town Furcolow.

[zipperflesh]

@zipper:
How sure are you of your vote? Give it a percentage, please.
Do you expect a wagon on me to result in a lynch? If so, what do you expect me to flip?
Who else are you suspicious of?

Its the first serious vote I've placed today. 60/40

No, I don't expect the first real wagon of the day to produce a lynch. 60/40 Scum/Town flip.

I'm not suspicious of anyone else at the moment.

Give a team of 3, and a team of 2

I'll do this later, battery is about dead, and I'm leaving work.

[zipperflesh]

Give a team of 3, and a team of 2

I'll do this later, battery is about dead, and I'm leaving work.

Meh.

I can't really do this right now. There's just not enough info available to make connections, and with two scum teams it just muddles the water.
I'm kind of wondering how you made the connections you did. Is there in thread evidence, or did you just pull five names out of a hat?

[zipperflesh]

Confirm Vote: Furcolow

@Sevei: Why are you so adamant that Dry-Fit is scum.

[zipperflesh]

Looks like we caught ourselves a werewolf. Sweet.

...or a mafiate... what makes you think he's a werewolf?

[zipperflesh]

Looks like we caught ourselves a werewolf. Sweet.

...or a mafiate... what makes you think he's a werewolf?

Nvm. I see where you got that from... >.<

[zipperflesh]

Yeah, I realized that after I thought about it.

[zipperflesh]

Vote: CES

I didn't like his actions regarding both D1 wagons.

I'm also slightly suspicious of Sevei for the same thing, but I'd like to try a CES-wagon again.

[zipperflesh]

Unvote. Vote: Sevei

Jesse is getting at the exact same thing I was.

What made Sevei so sure Dry-fit was scum?

[zipperflesh]

I'd like to know how CES concludes I'm mafia.

Completely happy with my Sevei vote... its Furcolow all over again.

[zipperflesh]

I'd like to know how CES concludes I'm mafia.

Answer the question.

[zipperflesh]

Obviously, you missed this...

Vote: CES

I didn't like his actions regarding both D1 wagons.

I'm also slightly suspicious of Sevei for the same thing, but I'd like to try a CES-wagon again.

...for some reason (perhaps you are scum?) I can't get a wagon started on you, so when the Sevei wagon started I hopped over since I was just as suspicous of him.

--------------------

So how does my actions toward Furcolow factor into you thinking I'm scum? Do you think I was busing him from the start?

There has to be something to back up your gut, otherwise you're guilty of the same thing Sevei is and deserved to be lynched. I suggest you go dig some stuff up if you're so convinced I'm mafia, and while you are at it, please connect the dots on how I'm partners with Jelly.

[zipperflesh]

I didn't miss it, but you never really tried to get a wagon on me going - if we disregard CommieX's V/LA notice, only Jesse, Sevei and I posted between those two posts of yours.

Well, I certainly didn't push it because all I've got is a vague gut suspicion.

So how does my actions toward Furcolow factor into you thinking I'm scum? Do you think I was busing him from the start?

I doubt it was bussing, but distancing which accidentally helped lead to his lynch is very much possible. There certainly was no reason to suppose that he would end up getting lynched at the time of your vote.

I hardly call outright attacking him "distancing." I had plenty of time to unvote before he even became close to being lynched. Furcolow was making baseless attacks against people, much in the same way you and Sevei are doing, and I attacked him for it.

There has to be something to back up your gut, otherwise you're guilty of the same thing Sevei is and deserved to be lynched.

My gut is quite reliable, thank you very much and Sevei doesn't deserve to be lynched, but, as it happens, my second point does back up my gut.

You still haven't proven how I'm mafia. All you've done is provide a hypothesis where I was scum distancing himself from his scum buddy.

please connect the dots on how I'm partners with Jelly.

That's just me having some fun. I have no intention of looking for pairings at this point in time.

You think baseless accusations are fun?

[zipperflesh]

I hardly call outright attacking him "distancing." I had plenty of time to unvote before he even became close to being lynched. Furcolow was making baseless attacks against people, much in the same way you and Sevei are doing, and I attacked him for it.

If it was "outright attacking", then you certainly couldn't have unvoted without it drawing a lot of attention. Anyway, I do not think your actions are inconsistent with the possibility that you're mafia in any meaningful way.

Are my actions inconsistent with the possibility that I'm town?

[zipperflesh]

So, if my actions in regards to the Furcolow lynch are a null tell, then what makes you think I'm mafia?

[zipperflesh]

Try reading my posts.

Firstly, my gut (which is as infallible as the pope) tells me so.

Secondly, your switch to Sevei strikes me as fairly opportunistic (I certainly don't see anything incriminating in Sevei's posts that occur between your vote for me and your vote for Sevei.)

Your subsequent attempts to undermine me serve as further evidence.

Point #1 - Gut
Rebuttal - Gut means nothing, prove it or quit mudslinging

Point #2 - Voting Sevei
Rebuttal - Since you're both guilty of baseless attacks, I could care less which one of you is lynched first. If it were possible to lynch you both today, then I'd be all for it.

Point #3 - Undermining CES
Rebuttal - You have to have a valid case before I can undermine it. As of right you've got nothing on me except null tells and gut. If you really think I'm scum quit toying around and prove it. Otherwise you're just slandering.

[zipperflesh]

Gut is awesome and is a completely valid method scumhunting if a not particularly convincing one. You keep asking me why I think you're scum. The notion that me answering truthfully could in any way constitute mudslinging is laughable.

I don't have a problem with using your gut, I use mine all the time. What I have a problem is you attacking me without reasoning and blaming it on gut. Chances are if you truly have a gut feeling that I'm scum then I've done something to provoke that response. If not then you are lying scum.

I probably wouldn't have batted an eye if you had started the day voting Sevei, but the timing of the switch seemed highly opportunistic to me. I get the feeling that you switched to Sevei because Jesse was already pushing the Seveiwagon for you. I'm also not entirely clear how I'm supposed to be "guilty of baseless attacks" when I'm fairly sure all I did was fun bandwagonning (the advantages of which are aptly demonstrated by Furcolow's breakdown).

My vote on you was a carry-over of my vote on you yesterday, with an additional suspicion based on your wagon hoping, and sprinkled with me wanting to start the day off with a vote. I came back later once the Jesse/Sevei discussion was underway and voted Sevei based on his response to Jesse, in fact I was the first to vote him.

You are guilty of "baseless attacks" because you continually say people are scum without showing a shred of evidence. Need I remind you this is the same tactic Furcolow attempted to use which resulted in his lynch. If you think people are scummy then you need to put you money where your mouth is, otherwise you're mudslinging.

Then what is the "vague gut suspicion comment" about? What purpose does it serve? I do have more on you, but you're obviously not going to agree with me.

I've already explained what my gut feeling is based on --> Your baseless attacks, and the way you hopped wagons on Day 1.

If you've got more on me then POST IT! I can't very well properly defend myself from a guy calling me scum for no reason, but perhaps when you provide your evidence (I'm doubting you have any...) I'll be able to defend myself.

You'd have to be a fairly crappy player for me to be able to "prove" that you're scum by page with any regularity. That's not how mafia works. Also, calling people scum in a game of mafia is just part of game and not slander.

Are you saying that mafia isn't a game about collecting evidence on a player to convince the town to lynch that person? I don't think so, where I come from we have to prove our accusations or be held accountable.

Calling people scum without providing a reason is slander, not a part of the game. Proving someone is scum via a presentation of the facts is a part of the game and how you play mafia. Otherwise you're playing WitchhuntTM or GuessTheBadGuyTM.

[zipperflesh]

I need to respond, but I've had a busy weekend.

If I don't get to this tonight, I'll have my response Monday morning.

Nobody else posted within +24 hours of CES's post, so I don't think that should be held against me.

[zipperflesh]

But you were the one under fire with what's a pretty legitimate argument, so trying to diffuse the dodging accusation with "But everyone else was doing it" isn't going to fly, especially with the note that you were posting elsewhere on the site during the timeframe mentioned.

I did post in other games, but I wasn't under any pressure to respond immediately to CES's post. Personally, I respond to things when I have time. I had time to answer a menial question in a Newbie game, but I haven't had the proper time to adequately respond to CES's post. How 'bout you quit trying to meta me and have a little patience, or are you trying to get me lynched before I properly rebuttal?

Any rate, said rebuttal should be forthcoming shortly.

[zipperflesh]

First off I'd like to start with this:

I form my gut reads through reading ISOs

(I ISOed each player at the start of the day.)

and they tend to be based on the totality of a person's posting. I wouldn't be surprised if there were specific elements that triggered, but in that case I didn't manage to isolate them.

I'd be very much interested in seeing these, and I'd like to know your thoughts on each player based on them. Unless, of course you want to be caught in a lie...

...now unto this supposed contradiction.

I came back later once the Jesse/Sevei discussion was underway and voted Sevei based on his response to Jesse, in fact I was the first to vote him.

Good thing you pointed that out, because this is what you said earlier:

...for some reason (perhaps you are scum?) I can't get a wagon started on you, so when the Sevei wagon started I hopped over since I was just as suspicous of him.

You've just given two contradictory explanations of the same event.

Unvote, vote: zipperflesh

The first quote comes from #224, which was a response to #223. What I say there is correct, but I did use the wrong words. This was a result of me not fact checking, because when I replied Sevei already had some votes. I wasn't concerned about voting order, and what I should have said there was Jesse/Sevei discussion. It seems you believed Jesse had been the first to vote as well, since in #234 you said,

"I get the feeling that you switched to Sevei because Jesse was already pushing the Seveiwagon for you."

When I answered that, I did go back, and I fact checked. This was where I saw that I had in fact placed the first vote, which as you can see I hadn't realized myself. In all honesty, I thought I had voted after Jesse, but the truth of the matter is that while Jesse was "pushing a Sevei-wagon" with their discussion he was doing so without a vote.

So, I made a poor wording choice and a mistake due to posting based on my memory of events rather than what actually happened. Mistakes happen, and that doesn't make me scum. What CES has failed (and still refuses) to do is show reasons (prior this discussion) that make me scum. Why has he done this? I suspect it is because he is scum. Is it unreasonable for me to ask CES why he found me scummy, and is it unreasonable to expect a valid answer from him?

I was going to respond to the rest of your post, but screw it. Die, scum, die.

This just shows how callous you are. If you are town, you are doing a poor job of it. You refuse to acknowledge my points because you know they prove you wrong. For some reason you are reluctant to admit you have nothing to hold against me. For you're convenience, I'll repost the specifics:

You are guilty of "baseless attacks" because you continually say people are scum without showing a shred of evidence. Need I remind you this is the same tactic Furcolow attempted to use which resulted in his lynch. If you think people are scummy then you need to put you money where your mouth is, otherwise you're mudslinging.

Then what is the "vague gut suspicion comment" about? What purpose does it serve? I do have more on you, but you're obviously not going to agree with me.

I've already explained what my gut feeling is based on --> Your baseless attacks, and the way you hopped wagons on Day 1.

If you've got more on me then POST IT! I can't very well properly defend myself from a guy calling me scum for no reason, but perhaps when you provide your evidence (I'm doubting you have any...) I'll be able to defend myself.

You'd have to be a fairly crappy player for me to be able to "prove" that you're scum by page with any regularity. That's not how mafia works. Also, calling people scum in a game of mafia is just part of game and not slander.

Are you saying that mafia isn't a game about collecting evidence on a player to convince the town to lynch that person? I don't think so, where I come from we have to prove our accusations or be held accountable.

Calling people scum without providing a reason is slander, not a part of the game. Proving someone is scum via a presentation of the facts is a part of the game and how you play mafia. Otherwise you're playing WitchhuntTM or GuessTheBadGuyTM.

[zipperflesh]

List of things CES needs to provide:

1) ISO of every player and his read thereof.
2) Evidence prior our discussion that provides reasoning for him calling me scum.
3) A valid response to the ignored portion of post #240

If he fails to provide the first two he should be lynched under LaL.

Especially, #1.

#3 is a personal request, as I don't think valid arguments being ignored.

[zipperflesh]

Lynched...with two votes. That's stretching.

As an aside, a rebuttal can take more than one wall of text to do. You apparently had time to post that little retort, a teaser of your defense would be appreciated.

Its entirely possible you're scum attempting to accumulate votes on me before I had time to rebuttal.

-----------------

@Sevei: Apologies for using the wrong gender pronoun.

[zipperflesh]

Interesting Post.

unvote, vote: zipperflesh

Thoughts plox?

[zipperflesh]

You seem to have misunderstood. I simply read each player in ISO. There's nothing for you to see. The only meaningful conclusion I drew from it I've already shared: that Djelibeybi is harbouring a dark and terrible secret.

I thought you said you were joking when you called Jelly scum. Can you explain why you feel he is scum?

You're not addressing the central issue, which is that you have posited two wildly different motivations for your Seveivote.

What do you mean? I was suspicious of both of you for baseless accusations, but I choose to switch my vote to Sevei because of his reaction to Jesse's attack. How is that a contradiction?

I most definitely have explained why I think you're scum (gut + Seveivote). You just seem to think that I need to provide a convincing case (which my gut is unlikely to provide) merely to include you on my scumlist, which is simply false.

A gut call is not a valid reason to cast suspicion upon anyone. In order for it to be worth a damn you have to validate your gut with evidence. The fact that you continually fail to provide a reason for why I am scum proves to me that you scum just looking for an excuse to lynch someone.

Just fyi, conciseness is pro-town. But, sure, I'll respond to it as soon as I have some time.

Dodging accusations and questioning is anti-town.

[zipperflesh]

EBWOP:

That part should read: Dodging accusations/questioning is anti-town.

[zipperflesh]

Apparently, CES thinks he can catch scum on gut and meta alone, both of which he has admitted has nothing to do with in game actions. This is a dangerous and anti-town stance to adopt, either he's scum or a terrible player, now I've never played with him before so I'd rate it as scum trying to pass off gut as an excuse not to scumhunt.

[zipperflesh]

Really? Because it looks like here that you voted me because you agreed with Jesse's attack, not my response to it.

Jess was attacking you for the same thing I was...

[zipperflesh]

My votes on Jesse and Dry-fit were both joke votes.

Mafia will vote for mafia, its a tactic called busing/distancing. They'll lynch their partner in order to buy town pants.

[zipperflesh]

Unvote. Vote: Jesse

Sevei's last post is actually a fairly good defense.

I don't like CES, but I'm getting the feeling that's more OMGUS than he's actually scummy. Although, baseless attacks are a pet peeve of mine, and I will pressure someone if they don't provide any reasoning.

While I agree with him, I always get a bad vibe from people who buddy up with me. I think appealing to another player's ego is a slight scum tell.

I'm also not a fan of Nightson, for reasons already stated, and I'd be willing to pressure wagon him.

[zipperflesh]

Unvote. Vote: Nightson

[zipperflesh]

I don't understand how that's especially scummy though. I would think anyone who was accused would be like "well then, provide proof I'm a baddie."

It is practically impossible to provide "proof" that a player is scum, especially now that there are no power roles in the game. In my experience, scum who think they are playing a good game get pretty annoyed when somebody catches onto them, but then does not explain why.

So... JesseSheffield is still alive. This is a problem.[/quote]

Keyword is catches onto them, that implies said scum has done something worth of being caught, which would me the attacker would have a valid explanation for their attack.

What you are talking about is exemplified in mu catch of Furcolow, he was so aggravated that I had caught him for baseless attacking Dry-fit that his actions devolved into mindless babble. What you see in me is peeved town trying to discover why he's being attacked.

[zipperflesh]

tag fail

[zipperflesh]

And I have found that scum have a tendency to use baseless attacks. Case in point: Furcolow.

[zipperflesh]

Reading will have to wait until tomorrow, I have a test to prepare for today...

IN OTHER NEWS.

Vote: Zipperflesh

La sigh...

Reasoning?

[zipperflesh]

Ya' see, this is what I've been talking about. CES stands around calling people scum and when asked to support his accusations all he can say is "gut & meta." Its completely and utterly ridiculous that he should be able to do this and get away with it scott free.

[zipperflesh]

Please lynch CES.

I have nothing else to say.

(I've already given my reasoning for voting Jessie)

Tier 1 - (Lynch these dudes)

CES
Nightson
Jessie

Tier 2 - (Scummy or Suspicious, Investigate)

Mafuyu
Katsuki
Jelly

Tier 3 - (Null Reads, Lurkers, POST MOAR)

drmy

Tier 4 - (Town Reads)

Sevei
Sapro

------------------------

Its pretty obvious that scum are pushing my lynch over both Jessie and Nightson. It wouldn't surprise if at least one of them were scum, if not both.

I think Mafuyu and Katsuki reasons for voting need to be looked into for possible scum motivations.

[zipperflesh]

I think drmyshott's meta is to replace into a game and jump on whatever the most prominent wagon is at the moment... can you give us you reasoning on why you find me and Mafuyu as the scummiest and why (of all people) do you have a town read on CES?

also, it should be noted I have tried to get CES lynched, because I remember you saying I had to be scum because I didn't push any lynches... (horrible logic btw)

[zipperflesh]

His argument was that I didn't push a lynch because I had a night kill. :/

Quite defending his illogical attacks with you own kooky logic to make me look worse and him look better.

[zipperflesh]

drmyshott, your playstyle disgusts me. Just sayin'

perhaps if you applied some logical reasoning and less vulgarities people would take you more seriously

[zipperflesh]

Rebut what?

All you did there was out of context and mis rep...

[zipperflesh]

Vote: JesseSheffield

Third vote on the wagon! I must be scum! :V

Ok Zipper this is your first post and it is already scummy. Because here, Zipper made a joke about being scum, and thus tried to instill in our minds the fact that he isn't. I've used this many times, as has a lot of people who I've played with as scum. It may just be meta(provide links if it is), but I find it to be a scum tell.

One word.

Joking

How about you provide links showing that this is a valid scum tell

, you know, since you and people you've been scum with have done it so many times.

You may use that I am town.

:/

Unvote. Vote: Cogito Ergo sum

Let's see if we can prove/disprove that statement.

Yay! for random vote hopping!!... but wait whats this?!?

Unvote. Vote: Dry-Fit

Sha-Zam!

Om nom nom! OMG he did it again two posts later!! I find this really scummy.(Both of them)
Because in the first one it almost sounds as if he is saying "hey guys let's lynch him for fun and a little bit of info"

The vote on CES was in relation to him saying he was town.
The vote on Dry-fit was a joke as well, but I was also pushing the wagon on him for reactions.

Can you explain how these actions are scummy?

Again, this was taken from early in Day 1. Voting someone for fun/info is exactly what you are supposed to be doing.

I don't see where Dry-fit has done anything that needs defending. I'm attacking you for saying you have a valid reason to be voting for him, which you have failed to provide.

Hypocrisy!! yay, more scum tells. =D. Also Zipper buddy chainsaws are dangerous, but this was more of a weed wacker with a diesel engine. Or in other words it screams scum at me, yet in reality it didn't hurt you very badly even when you cut your self with it.

Can you point out the hypocrisy?

Using Chainsaw defense against me is irrelevant, because it only matters in cases where the person being defended flips scum.

Can you explain how defending someone from a baseless attack makes me scum?

ok so here I numbered the points I am going to make against you.
1. with a game made of almost 50% anti-town roles, they fit hand in hand. And your anti-anti-scum mentallity is noted.
2. Ok now you are twisting his words(and the scummy goes to zipper). He is saying they don't. So DO NOT ask him why they do.
3. And what scum hunting have you done zipper? So far you have said oh he is scum, oh no he is scum. BUT THERE IS NO WAY HE IS SCUM!!" and all of that nothing adds up to you being scum.(active lurking IS a scum tell)
4. HYPOCRITE!!!! You just did exactly what you are yelling at other people for doing. Just go die scum.(I mean you already bussed your partner)

1. & 2. were a misunderstanding. I acknowledged this in the next quote you ISO'd. Reading in context is fundamental.

3. Up to that point, I had probed around with a few random votes, made some general comments, commented on who I thought was town/scum, and started probing my #1 suspect up to that point. I know you are trying to make it look like I was actively lurking, but you failed.

4. This is an outright lie. I suggest you go back and read this in context to exactly what I'm talking about.

Yay more random "let's start a wagon" votes. Dude that's not pro town D-2.

Yeah, not random. If you're going to attack me at least get it right.

Explain why going after you top two suspect at the start of the day is anti-town.

You are partners with jelly because he is chainsawing you, and yes you were busing him.

Again, get your shit straight. At this point in time Jelly had never raised a finger to defend me. This is complete and utter ridiculousness.

[zipperflesh]

I'd like to know why Katsuki thinks I need to hang.

Does anyone voting for me actually have a reason?

[zipperflesh]

Katsuki, you have the brains of a cupcake.

How about actually pointing out why I am scum instead of just saying "Scummy as fuck"

I don't think you've posted anything substantial this whole game and now you are pushing a wagon without explaining why I'm a goods lynch.

[zipperflesh]

WIFOM^^

What?

Apparently, you need to learn the meaning of that phase.

[zipperflesh]

Now now, isn't this starting to resemble furcolow all over again?

Nope. Furcolow was squirming scum who got caught. I'm just aggravated because people keep calling me scum without backing up their words.

So, until someone says something I can actually defend against I'm just going to join the crowd.

I have to give drmys some credit though, his case is crap, but at least he tried to back up his feelings.

Furcolow wanted people to stop attacking him. I, on the contrary, don't care to be attacked. All I ask is if you're going to attack me, then at least have the decency to back your shit up with some valid reasoning. I'm the target of a witch hunt, not a scum hunt, and I hope the town will remember it when I flip town.

[zipperflesh]

DX!!!! OOOOPS I meant to say AtE!!
Lawlz

meh

not really, I thought I was being rather clever with my pun...

...i just hate being ostracized, which is what Katsuki (and others) are doing...

[zipperflesh]

what do you think about Nightson's redisappearance...

...and Jessie's stepping out...

feels to me that their letting my lynch take the spot light while they stay to the shadows...

[zipperflesh]

Why then don't you vote Night and tie the vote?

I doubt there is enough steam for a Jelly lynch. As far as can tell, only you and CES find him scummy, unless I missed something.

[zipperflesh]

Unvote. Vote: Saporovirus

[zipperflesh]

Now that that is out of the way, perhaps you'll listen to me now. It was obvious that I was lynched to divert the town from lynching actual scum.

One of Jesse and Nightson are probably scum, as they were the only competing lynches at the time the wagon on me emerged.

[zipperflesh]

/amused

That's because your scum.

[zipperflesh]

This is a fairly accurate account of how I feel at the moment.

Tier 1 - (Lynch these dudes)

CES
Nightson
Katsuki

Tier 2 - (Scummy or Suspicious, Investigate)

Sapro
Jessie
Mafuyu

Tier 3 - (Null Reads, Town Reads)

drmy
Jelly
Sevei

[zipperflesh]

Also, if CES and Katsuki turn out to be town, then they need consider changing their playstyle because it's a terrible way to play and only leads to screwing the town.

drmys may not get it right, but at least he's attempting to contribute to the town.

good luck town.

[zipperflesh]

I thought I was lynched until I saw the vote count, went back, and realized Jelly never unvoted. I've been quiet since so as not to spoil the reactions with an OMG I wasn't lynched post. There's no way to make you believe I was being honest with my last few posts, but if I do still end up being lynched please pay attention to them as they are my honest last thoughts.

I changed my read on Jelly, because of his discussion with CES, which came immediately after my last tiering.

I changed my read on Saporo, because if his discussion with Jessie. I'm suspicious of both, but after that discussion I feel Saporo came out smelling worse.

[zipperflesh]

Funny how zipper has PJ down as "town", even after the (pretend) hammer. I think we are good to go with zipper.

Not really, despite his vote on me I still felt his play to be townie. It wasn't surprising for me to be hammered after switching my vote to Saporo. I knew voting him would be a risk, but at that point it was damned if you do, damned if you don't, so I decided to play like I wasn't about to be lynched.

[zipperflesh]

I wasn't suspicious of you all along, it was your most recent discussion with Jesse which affected my read on you. Just because I voted you doesn't mean you're #1 on my list. If I died with a Nadar vote on CES, the town wouldn't learn anything from my death. It goes back to that "line of suspicion" thing Jessie was talking about and had I died with my vote on you the town would have known to start looking with you.

[zipperflesh]

@Zipper: The context of which PJ "hammered" was entirely anti-town. There is no way you can justify that as a town action, yet you were like "OH HAI GUYZ, HAMMER ASIDE, I THINK PJ IS TOTS TOWN".

Actual hammer would be nice at this point.

Are you trying to say that only scum would hammer me?

I mean, how can you call Jelly's hammer scummy, when you yourself haven't given any reason for voting me, aside from "Zipper's Fucking Scum."

Everyone was calling for my hammer, so how exactly can you deem Jelly's hammer as anti-town? IMO, this just proves that you think your own vote is anti-town.

[zipperflesh]

Now that that is out of the way, perhaps you'll listen to me now. It was obvious that I was lynched to divert the town from lynching actual scum.

One of Jesse and Nightson are probably scum, as they were the only competing lynches at the time the wagon on me emerged.

Hey zipper.

Are you aware of the gaping flaw in the logic of this post?

How about you point them out.

[zipperflesh]

Jesse come on bro first off RTFT, and you will know why that is true.
Also there are 5 scum =DDD

4, 1 is dead.

[zipperflesh]

Now that that is out of the way, perhaps you'll listen to me now. It was obvious that I was lynched to divert the town from lynching actual scum.

One of Jesse and Nightson are probably scum, as they were the only competing lynches at the time the wagon on me emerged.

Hey zipper.

Are you aware of the gaping flaw in the logic of this post?

How about you point them out.

I don't think they started the wagon against you?

Your point? Just because they didn't start the wagon, doesn't mean their scum partners aren't pushing it to keep them from getting close to being lynched.

[zipperflesh]

Your idea that all the people who think you're scum are scum themselves, and that the two scum groups are coordinating just to get you lynched.

This is not what I think. In fact, Jessie was defending me. I find it likely that at least one of you are scum, or you both are scum of a different team, and your respective partner/partners (depending on if its only one or both of you) are pushing my lynch. I think that you, Nightson, have a higher chance of being scum than Jessie because it was in response to your pressure wagon that the wagon on me gained ground.

I mean honestly, if you were town you should be able to realize how silly it is, but of course it's a very handy attack to use as scum. And heck with two scum groups there's probably a decent chance that there is a member of the other group on your wagon.

This is very wishy-washy. You say that me attacking the people on may wagon is silly, yet you go on to say that there is probably scum on my wagon.

[zipperflesh]

Everyone was calling for my hammer, so how exactly can you deem Jelly's hammer as anti-town? IMO, this just proves that you think your own vote is anti-town.

This quote is why:

I just read zipperflesh's posts in isolation, and I am reverting back to my opinion that he is Town.

I suppose its a sin for someone to change their mind? Also, Jelly gave no reason for his vote on me. It could possible that he just wanted to end the day by lynching me for information.

[zipperflesh]

Zipper, you say yuo made the list, and you before it you said you thought Nightson or Jesse was scum, but you put Nightson and Kats on Tier One and Jesse on T2. Why?

That's because I think they are scummy that Jessie.

I have an ill-feeling about Jessie, but its not strong enough to make me want to lynch him over the Tier 1er's.

Katsuki & CES are guilty of baseless attacks.

Nightson is suspicious because of my wagon gaining more speed than his.

[zipperflesh]

Thanks for doing the ground work, Katsuki is probably your partner. I never said it was definitive, but when a townie goes down when there are two other lynch option you have to start thinking scum where saving their partner.

I don't find drmys scummy, I find him to be playing in his typical manner.

Time to update:

Tier 1 - (Lynch these dudes)

Katsuki - Scummy for saving Nightson / Baseless Attacks
Nightson - Scummy for being saved by my wagon
CES - Scummy for Baseless Attacks

Tier 2 - (Scummy or Suspicious, Investigate)

Sapro - Wishy-washy
Jessie - Slight suspicion for defending me / competing wagon
Mafuyu - I don't even remember / Probably baseless attack / Will research

Unvote. Vote: Katsuki

[zipperflesh]

Katsuki + Nightson = Team

CES + (Sappro or Jessie or Mafuyu) = Team

Guessing, I'd say CES & Jessie are a team because CES has been blabbering about a Jessie wagon since RVS.

[zipperflesh]

Also, your theory that the instrumental people on your wagon are scum really only rings true if you are obviously town.

Exactly!

Since, I'm the obvious lynch today, I'm going to dump all my thoughts unto the table. When I flip town, the town can look back and follow my suspicions.

[zipperflesh]

You do realize that under that theory, zipper, one of us would have to flip scum for it to even be a possibility right? You're basing too much of your supposed reads on inter-relations that are unfounded. It feels to me like you're attempting to draw players together by chance that if one does flip scum it's easy out lynch to lynch the other. Which is great once someone's flipped scum but beforehand? Doesn't make any sense from a town player's perspective.

How does that makes sense from a scum perspective? If I flipped scum, then all my opinions would be nil anyway.

I'm basing my assumptions of what's available in thread. I know it's not foll proof, but its the least I can do for the town. When I die, the ground work will be done for future lynches. In all honest, I'm not feeling the you CES thing 100%, more like 50%. However, I wouldn't be surprised if Katsuki and Nightson are partners.

[zipperflesh]

zipper you are using AtE, and you know you aren't lynched right?

I'm pretty damn close. What's your point? The best thing I can do is leave my thoughts fresh in the town's mind.

If I'm not lynched today, I'll be surprised.

[zipperflesh]

How does that makes sense from a scum perspective? If I flipped scum, then all my opinions would be nil anyway.

Because why not? Anything to not get lynched right.

Sure, but as you can see from Nightson's post underneath you everything I'm saying is getting twisted. I don't want to die, but if I do die I want the town to gain the most out of my posts.

[zipperflesh]

unvote
vote nightson

Zipper is acting really town AtM

People who say things like "When I flip town..." are usually scum.

Nah, dude. Its cool, I hope they hang you from your fuzzy little neck. I mean, what's the case against me anyway?

Before I'm hammered, I'd like each person voting me to plainly state why they are voting me.

[zipperflesh]

I don't like the lists for several reasons, and how he says Nightson and Jesse are scum but puts Jesse in T2...

...My remaining scum reads: Jesse, Kats, and Nightson.

Its a little odd that you dislike my lists, yet you pretty much agree with me in regards to everyone except CES and Mafuyu.

[zipperflesh]

So your vote on me is based on your suspicion that I'm busing / distancing myself from my scum partner, correct?

I can see you line of thought, but couldn't I also be town putting all my thoughts out there? I just don't think that's reason enough to lynch anyone. Why do you think Kats, Nightson, and Jessie are scum and what makes me more likely to be scum than them?

[zipperflesh]

Because you make posts like this. You consistently behave in a manner more in keeping with scum who is very concerned with keeping themselves alive.

I am concerned with keeping myself alive, but if I am to die I want my last will and testament to be known.

Your scumhunting further seems more like opportunism which are dressed up in rationale instead of being the honest result of that rationale.

I'm being honest in my rationale, although, I'm not the best at swaying the town into listening to me.

You feel the need to profess your towness every five posts.

I profess nothing. I give my thoughts, that is all.

You are

very

OMGUSy.

Granted, this is just me dying. Although, I think I've presented valid reasoning why you are Katsuki are probably scum. I've been against CES since yesterday, so that doesn't really count. Jessie and Saporo aren't voting me, so that doesn't count either... and I'm still not sure about Mafuyu, but I don't have a town read on him so he's suspicious for that alone.

You seem very nervous and very interested in making me look bad... perhaps you are scared people will start listening to me and lynch you.

[zipperflesh]

Thats because all the scum are already voting me. :V

(I'm only being half serious)

[zipperflesh]

Unvote. Vote: Nightson

[zipperflesh]

if he flips town though, then nightson you are dead

This is kind of scummy... sounds as if you know I'm about to flip town and will use that to chain lynch Nightson. If you are both scum, then you are not scum together.

Go town. Please take a look at my tier. Its not perfect, but really CES and Katsuki shouldn't be allowed to get away with baseless accusation. I was pretty much lynched simply because they yelled scum enough times.

I feel stronger about Nightson being scum than Jessie. Hell, the only thing I've really got on Jessie is a gut feeling. You should focus on Nightson, CES, and Katsuki, followed by Saporo, Jessie, and drmys. I never went back to check on Mafuyu, so put him with Sevei and Jelly as probably town.

[zipperflesh]

Ah fucking shit.

Jeep Tell

[zipperflesh]

Flavor was awesome, and the game was fun.

I feel pretty good despite the lynch as I think I played fairly well. Had Nightson been lynched instead of me, I think the game would have been wildly different.