Mini 1023 - City Watch Mafia - Game Over!

[TheButtonmen]

@Mod:

Can we get a FG prod.

VOTE COUNT

FakeGod (2): Thor665, VasudeVa

Not Voting (5): Chronopie, Budja, Plum, TheButtonmen, FakeGod

With 7 alive, 4 is needed to lynch.

[Plum]

V/LA through Saturday Night

Understood. -M

[Budja]

The thing which is getting to me is the scum's choice of nightkill.
I'm pretty sure Thor is town and Plum fitted perfectly into my scum-team theory.
---

I also think Chronopie is town. Considering Thor and I bring little, if any extra power to the town and Narsis flipped PR.

So:
TheButtonmen
VasudeVa
FakeGod
with Thor as a outside chance.

Considering VV/TBM have been on each others throats for most of the game, (I cannot believe VV would bus Tasky and Button),
VOTE: Fakegod

[Thor665]

That's L-1.

@Budja - again, why Plum?

[FakeGod]

I'm terribly sorry for not being here when the day 4 started.

The hotel's wifi was failing/nonexistent. I did not have internet for last two days and wasn't able to post V/LA either.

I will be rereading what I have missed right now.

[FakeGod]

It's too late for me to say "I am aligned with the city watch and win when all mafia are dead."

It appears that prs can also receive powers.

Because there was a JK and a doc, I'm almost positive that scum attempted to kill VV in n2 and hence the no deaths, and that VV is town-aligned.

If Budja is town-sided, then plum is town as well.

From my point of view, I am town, and therefore scum are among Chrono, Thor, and TBM.

If Budja is lying scum, then possible scum would be from my point of view are:

Budja + Plum (easy to lie about the lie-detector and possibly clear his partner)

Budja + Thor (easy to lie about neighbors with your scum buddy)

Budja + Chrono or TBM

[Thor665]

You've successfully listed a lot of possibilities.

What are your opinions about which possibility we are in?

As a snarky aside - now that we believe PRs can receive day powers why do you also now believe scum can as well?

[VasudeVa]

Actually, the scumteam I have in mind is:

TBM/Thor - Neither of them received a power yet. Plus I'm sorta kinda irked at that Thor's defense of TBM that was slightly unwarranted. But the unconfirmed masonry sealed the deal for me. Unconfirmed masonry is the mod's way of teasing us with 'One of you guys is scumm~' (And when someone teases, they probably will please~)

TBM really should have died yesterday. jimfinn deserved that lynch though.

Vote: TBM

As an added bonus, I remember Thor was the one so vehement in theorizing that scum get mod-announced day powers.(As opposed to the other theory back then that VTs get day powers). I think it's possible that it was scum frustration that we figured that out and he was pushing as much bad info as he can(and we ate it, D2.). In fact, I remember that he was the only one to push that/believe that. He was projecting his frustration and was getting away with it because so many people put him in their Town list.

---

I suddenly remembered that I read FG as Town. (I hate night phases when VT. >.>)

Everyone is still ignoring my case on why FG is Town via Tasky's return post? I really think that that was valid.

If nothing else, Chrono was so obviously Town from Tasky's return post because opportunistic Tasky-scum put him at L-1(somewhat near deadline, IIRC. Too lazy to check ). We STOP suspecting him. And I'm Town because of the claimed JK.

[Thor665]

Could you please quote the Tasky post you believe clears FG?

Woosh on the rest of that.

[VasudeVa]

I just noticed this in my reread but, Tasky's last big post has a huge parroty case on FG(And Chrono). I don't think that him Tasky would make a case on his scumbuddy, especially since there was some heat on FG during that time(I was calling him obvscum etc.), also Tasky wouldn't make such a huge case on his scumbuddy. This logic also works on Chrono, since Chrono was the leading wagon on Tasky's return.

FG's recent waddling reminds me of myself when I'm town with a heavy wagon. I have a bad feeling that he's Town and he's being genuine. + I agree with the auto-clearing of Town with Powers every day. However, it's not as imbalanced as you people make it seem. There was a chance that Town won't figure that out, but we did so it's cool.

I really think that jimfinn is the better lynch right about now. I really dislike his last votehop.

----
@FakeGod: Did you honest to god see my breadcrumb and STILL proceeded to make a huge case on me? Or were you just bluffing as Town? That's one of the big reasons why Thor wants you dead(and was the big reason I called you obvscum D2.)

Link is there. So.

[Thor665]

Hmmm, big parroty case on FG and he...FOSes him.

Then makes a case on and votes Chrono.

I'll agree it makes me feel better about Chrono - not sure why it should make me feel better about FG. Seems to be just as likely distancing as it is trying to help cast down a townie. Anything in particular sell you on that one?

[Budja]

@Thor, it would have fit my theory perfectly. Also, the fact that players like Narsis are dying made me think someone on "town" side of the scale was really scum.

Right now my bet is heavily on VV/Fakegod as the scumteam.
I may have been dead wrong with my guess of Plum but drunkeness = daycop doesn't make sense to me like the other powers. I wouldn't mind other comments on this!

@VV, that kind of speculation doesn't work for me. If power-getters were town, then scum wouldn't have much of a hope.

[Thor665]

drunkeness = daycop made perfect sense.

Reread the fluff when mole gave it to him. (paraphrasing here) 'staring through it, everything looked clearer through the bottom of the glass'. When I read that my first thought was honestly cop or watcher.

I'm dismissive of this angle of your case, if he's scum certainly we can do better then "but Drunkeness doesn't makes sense as Day Cop"

[Budja]

I take your point. It could make flavour sense as a "paranoid day-cop" too. Dismiss that.
What it does explain which I didn't mention was the odd interaction of FG/VV re. the claim.
Well, regardless, I'm happy (or at least as happy as I am going to get) with FakeGod.

[Chronopie]

Radical idea.

D2, I claimed JK'er shortly BEFORE night started. There was no kill.

I thought that I got lucky and protected VV.

It's too late to ask, but Narsis/Igor-Doc may have successfully protected someone else instead...

[VasudeVa]

@Budja: I already explained this. It could go both ways. If Town figures it out, good! If Town doesn't, then boo. Plus I'm thinking aboveaverage/high powered scum team + only weak Town PRs. (JK is weak. Doc is meh. Unconfirmed masons is meh-er.)

Why does Town gets day powers make less sense than Scum gets day powers? Both are unsubstiated mod-WIFOM. (In fact, it steers more towards Town get day powers from my POV since I'm Town and I got a Day power but I digress.)

Also, aside from "Bad feelings" can you substantiate/cite evidence of your VV/FG scumteam? Do you honestly think I would bus/attack FG-buddy that hard D2? Do I seem like that kind of player to you(I remember you using this kind of reasoning on your vote hop to FG.)

Why the hell are you for flavor-WIFOM but against setup-WIFOM?

@Thor: It's a very minor version of the case with ChronoPie. Regardless, it's essentially the same case. Tasky to heavily attack those two players upon his return. I understand that you don't get it though, but that plus FG's waddling yesterday(reminded me of me as Town with a heavy wagon.) makes me not want to lynch FG.

Explain why you were totally against the Town daypowers theory and why you were constantly pushing that theory D3. Also, the TBM defense. I don't really think it's very Townie to defend TBM like you did yesterday, especially since you really had no reason to.

--
@Others not named ButtonMen: What's your take on the current discussion?

[TheButtonmen]

What happened between;

Believe me, I srsly would have wanted to die right last night when I found out I was wrong about jimfinn.

Vote: FakeGod

How many mislynches do we have left?

In that post you believe that FakeGod is scum but in the your next post;

Actually, the scumteam I have in mind is:

TBM/Thor - Neither of them received a power yet. Plus I'm sorta kinda irked at that Thor's defense of TBM that was slightly unwarranted. But the unconfirmed masonry sealed the deal for me. Unconfirmed masonry is the mod's way of teasing us with 'One of you guys is scumm~' (And when someone teases, they probably will please~)

TBM really should have died yesterday. jimfinn deserved that lynch though.

Vote: TBM

You think me and Thor are, what made you change your mind to town!FG?

[Insert obligatory snark about VV falling back to roles again / still here.]

@Others not named ButtonMen: What's your take on the current discussion?

Hmn?

It's stuff like this that really confuse me, who knows maybe it's a playstyle diffrence but if your 100% that I'm scum and that I still have a partner out there wouldn't you want me posting?

Secondly if you don't want me to respond because you think I'm scum why not include Thor on the mute list if you think he's my partner?

[TheButtonmen]

Can't believe I missed this when I was making my post.

@Thor: It's a very minor version of the case with ChronoPie. Regardless, it's essentially the same case. Tasky to heavily attack those two players upon his return. I understand that you don't get it though, but that plus FG's waddling yesterday(reminded me of me as Town with a heavy wagon.) makes me not want to lynch FG.

According to this post VV thinks FG is town due posting Tasky made and due to the wagon yesterday. But how did VV enter today?

Believe me, I srsly would have wanted to die right last night when I found out I was wrong about jimfinn.

Vote: FakeGod

By jumping on the FG wagon.

@VV:

'splainy?

[Thor665]

Explain why you were totally against the Town daypowers theory and why you were constantly pushing that theory D3.

I explained why I was against it multiple times yesterday - it struck me as unbalancing in every sense of the word.
I constantly pushed this because it was what I believed and because the person I wanted to lynch (FG) chose to use that as the entire basis of his defense.
I will note I've already been proven half right in my original supposition, insomuch as now it's clear PRs get the day powers as well.
FG has even come out and claimed scum on people who've received daypowers now.
Why are you so convinced that scum don't?

Also, the TBM defense. I don't really think it's very Townie to defend TBM like you did yesterday, especially since you really had no reason to.

"I don't really think it's townie of you to defend FG like you are today, especially since you really have no reason to"

I didn't like the case on him and I didn't want him lynched yesterday. It's no different then the current FG situation. If you think it is explain how and then I'll bother trying to justify my insane actions more.

[VasudeVa]

You think me and Thor are, what made you change your mind to town!FG?

[Insert obligatory snark about VV falling back to roles again / still here.]

I forgot. I forget things. T'is part of being human.

Hmn?

It's stuff like this that really confuse me, who knows maybe it's a playstyle diffrence but if your 100% that I'm scum and that I still have a partner out there wouldn't you want me posting?

Secondly if you don't want me to respond because you think I'm scum why not include Thor on the mute list if you think he's my partner?

I like to ignore scum-posts. It's easier on me to ignore scum when they flail as hard as you do.

By jumping on the FG wagon.

I like wagons, haven't you noticed? *cough*D1*cough*

[VasudeVa]

Explain why you were totally against the Town daypowers theory and why you were constantly pushing that theory D3.

I explained why I was against it multiple times yesterday - it struck me as unbalancing in every sense of the word.
I constantly pushed this because it was what I believed and because the person I wanted to lynch (FG) chose to use that as the entire basis of his defense.
I will note I've already been proven half right in my original supposition, insomuch as now it's clear PRs get the day powers as well.
FG has even come out and claimed scum on people who've received daypowers now.
Why are you so convinced that scum don't?

Regardless of it being unfair or not, it's still unsubstiated mod-WIFOM. If you haven't noticed, the theory itself is just a minor part of this case. Whoever the hell was pushing theories(you) is more important.

If anything, scum have nothing to gain to push the theory "Town get daypowers". It'll make mislynching so hard for them, and will easily PoE their assess out of this game.

Scum have everything to gain by pushing the "Scum also get day powers" theory. If everyone buys this bullshit, it opens the possibility to mislynch those modconfirmed to be in-this-game too.

Also, the TBM defense. I don't really think it's very Townie to defend TBM like you did yesterday, especially since you really had no reason to.

"I don't really think it's townie of you to defend FG like you are today, especially since you really have no reason to"

I didn't like the case on him and I didn't want him lynched yesterday. It's no different then the current FG situation. If you think it is explain how and then I'll bother trying to justify my insane actions more.

Wrong. I have good in game non-meta reason to defend FG(via Tasky's catchup post.).

"I didn't like the case on him" is not a good enough reason to defend TBM as hardly as you did. "I didn't like the case on him" is the easiest excuse to defend someone. Plus, your defense was almost purely meta to make TBM's actions look null(which I regrettably bought. This is why I like to ignore scum posts.).

[Thor665]

@VV

Scum have plenty to gain from pushing the theory 'Town get daypowers' if 1-2 scum have received daypowers. That's how you get yourself a coast to endgame.
As I said, the theory was pushed because that was the grounds FG chose to defend himself on. I also pushed his actions towards you the day of your claim - his response to that was lacking, and I kept bringing that up as well.

If you take in game actions over meta as far as defense goes, that's your business. I don't agree with your reasons to defend FG and you don't agree with mine to defend Button. That's the way the game works, neither is telling of alignment until the person we're defending flips. There's a reason the chainsaw defense isn't a be all, end all scumtell - even according to the guy who 'invented' it, and both of us aren't even in chainsaw territory.

How do you define my defense of TBM as a "hard" defense? At what point did I cross the line into unreasonable defense of him?

[TheButtonmen]

You think me and Thor are, what made you change your mind to town!FG?

[Insert obligatory snark about VV falling back to roles again / still here.]

I forgot. I forget things. T'is part of being human.

I like to ignore scum-posts. It's easier on me to ignore scum when they flail as hard as you do.

Doesn't make sense, you deflect my attack by saying you forgot who you thought was scum and then simultaneously try to dismiss it as flailing.

Either me pointing out your randomly changing your scum reads is a valid point (hence you admitting you made a mistake and forgot your scum reads) or it's worthless scum flailing.

Also why is it every time I point out yet another example of cognitive dissonance or scum slip in your play you always immediatly dismiss it as flailing scum rather then actually defending against them or at least explaining where I misinterpreted you?

By jumping on the FG wagon.

I like wagons, haven't you noticed? *cough*D1*cough*

You like bandwagoning someone your 100% positive is town D4........

Right.

Scum.

[VasudeVa]

@VV

Scum have plenty to gain from pushing the theory 'Town get daypowers' if 1-2 scum have received daypowers. That's how you get yourself a coast to endgame.

Oh, now I'm scum!? I thought you felt better about Chronopie, and if you feel that Chronopie is Town, it only follows that I'm Town(No deaths N2, claimed protect yada yada.). Falling under pressure? Hmm? In fact, I feel like scum is purposely avoiding killing me and Chrono now since my/his death will lead to Town easily smoking them out by PoE.

As I said, the theory was pushed because that was the grounds FG chose to defend himself on. I also pushed his actions towards you the day of your claim - his response to that was lacking, and I kept bringing that up as well.

If you take in game actions over meta as far as defense goes, that's your business. I don't agree with your reasons to defend FG and you don't agree with mine to defend Button. That's the way the game works, neither is telling of alignment until the person we're defending flips. There's a reason the chainsaw defense isn't a be all, end all scumtell - even according to the guy who 'invented' it, and both of us aren't even in chainsaw territory.

How do you define my defense of TBM as a "hard" defense? At what point did I cross the line into unreasonable defense of him?

No. You defended TBM because you saw his actions before.

I'm defending FG because of what Tasky did.

It's hella different. My defense of FG is alot more powerful than your petty anecodatal meta defense of TBM. My defense is based on real evidence from a guilty party. It doesn't matter if you disagree with it(of course you would! You're scum!), but it holds a lot more credence than yours.

Also, hard defense means that you put a lot of effort to stop TBM's lynch. IIRC, you did. It was quite unreasonable, really.

--
@TBM: I didn't say 100 percent. I just prefer to lynch one of you two before I start lynching FG.

Also, boo hoo, I make mistakes. N3 was a long night. You're making stupid mistakes look scummy. In fact, after a whole night of night talk, Scum-Vas would have a better opening post than that! That looks more like a Town tell to me!

[VasudeVa]

Also, what do I have to gain from defending obvlynch FG? We all know that he will be lynched eventually. Scum and Town will both want him out of this game. I just want to test my TBM/Thor theory first before I start trusting the two who is pushing for FG(obv mislynch).

I must be the pickiest scum ever!