Open 253: Sea Container C9++ [GAME OVER]

[Alduskkel]

Vote: Mothrax

. Part-OMGUS part-spell-my-name-right.

In fact, I think you deliberately put the word "kill" in my name to make me look scummier!

[Alduskkel]

Hey mothrax, who are/is your scumpartner(s)?

[Alduskkel]

Sleepless Assassin is stretching and jmj3000 is overreacting.

Neither action/reaction strikes me as scummy. Stretching a case at this point in the game is just to fire up discussion, and overreacting just seems sensitive, not scummy.

[Alduskkel]

I don't really think Mothrax thought massclaim through, at all. Scum would just claim vanilla and sit back and watch any/all Town PRs expose themselves. Then, systematic NKing. Mothrax, did you even stop to think about it?

Some pretty obvious OMGUS, and I'll explain why:

and since I am going to get called out for OMGUS, this is in another post:
My top scumreads ATM are Mafuyu and Katsuki.
They both hopped on Sleepless when he was pushing a case on jmj, and while it was admitadly not a strong one, it was more than others were doing. As soon as they say that wasn't going anywhere, Kat jumped on me for a stupid reason, and was closely followed by Maf, who was wishy-washy enough to accuse me, call me scum, say we needed a wagon on me, but not vote me.
Unvote; Vote Katsuki

Mafuyu explained his reason for voting for SA, then Katsuki copied his reason (that would annoy me if it wasn't early on). So, explain why Mafuyu's reasoning was flawed.

Then we come to your accusation that their votes suck. You don't explain why Katsuki's vote is "stupid" and Mafuyu has definitely given a detailed explanation on why you are scummy and why mass claim would suck. Right now you are just blustering at Katsuki and Mafuyu without backing up anything you say, mothrax.

So I will keep my now not-random vote.

[Alduskkel]

I don't really think Mothrax thought massclaim through, at all. Scum would just claim vanilla and sit back and watch any/all Town PRs expose themselves. Then, systematic NKing. Mothrax, did you even stop to think about it?

This sounds like you are talking to someone who you think made a poor play as town rather than someone who you think is scum.

Not really. I point out why Mothrax is wrong, and then I imply that any Town player would see this obvious flaw. Therefore, that means mothrax isn't town.

[Alduskkel]

Where is everyone? No posting in 24+ hours...

[Alduskkel]

I'm not calling their votes stupid, I'm saying they are voting me fore stupidity, not scumminess. I did think it through, but I miss things sometimes which is why I wanted other oppinions on the matter.

Can you lay out your thought process for us? What led you to believe massclaim might be a positive thing for us?

Read please:

I'm interested in hearing this as well. Massclaim has it's advantages in that we can narrow down the setup as this is really semi-open. If we do that we can find out what roles we may be up against. We can also use it to weed out fakeclaims as there are only so many that would work in this game. I do see the disadvantages as well such as outing prs. That's why I wanted others opinions. As for my SA comment, consider it an fos minus the actuall words fos. It's no different.

Do you still believe this, or was this an explanation of your initial vote? If you believe this, is there anything that has happened in game so far which makes you see Jmj as scum?

Yes, I still believe that. I also don't like his initial defense that he replaced out of the game when he admits he followed it, making the fact that he replaced out entirely null. And the "Nice try, but try harder" in his first post seems like an attempt to discredit me completely hoping I'll drop the issue and if I don't, then no one will listen anyway. Then he twists my case completely to make it out like I'm metaing his play in the other game and attempts to make the replacement defense relevant again (Protip: It's not.). Then he actually listens and says he would have kept furcolow alive because of furc's play in that game (Protip: Furc named the "confirmed town" scum team at one point). Then he's back to twisting my case into "he's scum because he knew the scum team in another game". His ISO 7 just speaks for itself. He's very defensive there.

Oh, and in 9 posts, what has he done to contribute to the game? Defend himself? Sure. Call out Mongoose active lurking? Ok. What else? Who has he voted? No one. Who does he think is scum. I dunno.[/quote]

Oh, Ald responded. Oops.

I don't really think Mothrax thought massclaim through, at all. Scum would just claim vanilla and sit back and watch any/all Town PRs expose themselves. Then, systematic NKing. Mothrax, did you even stop to think about it?

This sounds like you are talking to someone who you think made a poor play as town rather than someone who you think is scum.

Not really. I point out why Mothrax is wrong, and then I imply that any Town player would see this obvious flaw. Therefore, that means mothrax isn't town.

So getting a scum role affects a player's ability to spot flaws in setup discussion? Note taken.

I would think a scum player would be less likely to see the pro-town side of things, yes.

[Alduskkel]

EBWOP: Let's act like that previous post didn't happen.

I'm not calling their votes stupid, I'm saying they are voting me fore stupidity, not scumminess. I did think it through, but I miss things sometimes which is why I wanted other oppinions on the matter.

Can you lay out your thought process for us? What led you to believe massclaim might be a positive thing for us?

Read please:

I'm interested in hearing this as well. Massclaim has it's advantages in that we can narrow down the setup as this is really semi-open. If we do that we can find out what roles we may be up against. We can also use it to weed out fakeclaims as there are only so many that would work in this game. I do see the disadvantages as well such as outing prs. That's why I wanted others opinions. As for my SA comment, consider it an fos minus the actuall words fos. It's no different.

Oh, Ald responded. Oops.

I don't really think Mothrax thought massclaim through, at all. Scum would just claim vanilla and sit back and watch any/all Town PRs expose themselves. Then, systematic NKing. Mothrax, did you even stop to think about it?

This sounds like you are talking to someone who you think made a poor play as town rather than someone who you think is scum.

Not really. I point out why Mothrax is wrong, and then I imply that any Town player would see this obvious flaw. Therefore, that means mothrax isn't town.

So getting a scum role affects a player's ability to spot flaws in setup discussion? Note taken.

I would think a scum player would be less likely to see the pro-town side of things, yes.

[Alduskkel]

And I saw the pro-town sides, I saw a few anti town, but I wanted the cons weighed out, so I asked. So if a scum player has difficulty seeing the pro-town aspects of things, your argument is void since I saw those and it was the anti I was having trouble seeing.

It's pro-town to spot the anti-town things in a mass claim.

[Alduskkel]

Wait, never mind, scum will see the pro-scum things to a mass claim which is equivalent to seeing the anti-town things.

Unvote

.

[Alduskkel]

Regarding Sleepless Assassin. First of all, his claim doesn't increase his chance of being town because Roleblocker is a role that isn't worth counterclaiming (there might be more than one roleblocker) so it's not a very risky scum claim until we've learned all 7 letters, and that might never happen until it's game over. Second of all, a Roleblocker has little impact on the game compared to other PRs. I won't go into why, since that might help the scum with their fake claims (just think it through for yourself).

OTOH I'm curious to see if SA will get NK'd or not. Maybe we can, as a town, control his roleblock. Mothrax raises valid points regarding SA town-tells. I also think his pressure for a lynch is fairly pro-Town. So I am not on board with lynching SA.

I've got a huge list of null reads right now and that's not good.

Too much of this Day has revolved around SA, jmj, and mothrax.

I will

Vote: a2rudeboy

. 4 posts, but that's not the only reason. The other reason is that in his iso #1 he said there was a lot to digest. Well, for all that digesting, what has he come up with? A few posts that consist of him asking questions which he doesn't follow up on at all. It's this contradiction and specific lack of content (while still having posts that

look

decent) that put him above the motley of other lurkers in this game.

@mongoose: Please get an avatar, it'll help me remember you.

Mod wants a vote in a clear spot, here it is a 2nd time:

Vote: a2rudeboy

.

[Alduskkel]

la

Is this supposed to stand for something?

[Alduskkel]

7 Letters refers to how the setup is determined. Reread the first post of the game, or read it if you haven't (and I suspect you may not have).

[Alduskkel]

Have you read the setup completely?! Maybe you should just check the wiki if you still don't get it.

[Alduskkel]

I personally find Katsuki to be scummier, because SHE JUST TALKS LIKE THIS AND SO PEOPLE PAY ATTENTION TO HER BUT SHE'S NOT REALLY SAID ANY REASONS FOR ANYTHING.

Sounds more like policy to me.

@a2rudeboy: Don't ignore my accusations against you like they don't exist.

[Alduskkel]

@Aldus- There was lot to digest as in, informational theory-heavy posts that I needed to wrap my head around for a while to clearly understand. After I read it through a few times, and reading it again right now those pages boiled down to SA's attack on jmj, and the slapfight that ensued (which was a bad basis for a case and soon turned into two people flailing defensively) and the discussion whether massclaim would be good or not, considering this particular setup (I always think D1 claims are unnecessary). I find your case to be a bit of a stretch.

I will accept this but:

vote:nexus

"i'm just going to take some time off and lurk for a while..."

Where the hell did this quote come from? Nexus never said this. Why are you shoving words in his mouth?

Vote: a2rudeboy

.

[Alduskkel]

I need to reread... no longer suspicious of kat/looker at this point...

Why not?

Also, anyone who posted without significantly contributing at the start of this Day should take a hint and do the opposite. They are:
Looker
BlakAdder
Nexus

andrew94 gets a pass for being V/LA, mothrax just seems lost ATM. No such excuse from the above 3. Who do they suspect today? Has Day 1 significantly changed their opinion, if so why?

[Alduskkel]

You contribute by, for instance, saying who you suspect. Consider yourself added to the above list, andrew94. Who do you suspect today? Even if it's the same as yesterday, vote accordingly.

And no, Nexus never said that. Please read the game.

[Alduskkel]

Ald, I don't like how you jumped on me for a "policy vote" when I feel my reasons for voting Katsuki were, at that point, entirely justified. ALL SHE DID WAS TALK LIKE THIS AND NOT SAY ANYTHING. She just posted votes. That isn't helpful for the town. At all. Yet, it looks like she's doing something, when in reality she isn't. So, Katsuki/her replacement are still up there, but it'd be a little unfair to vote for the replacement until the replacement gets some kind of speech.

So, how was it a policy vote, exactly?

It seems to me that that is just Katsuki's play style. But I see your point.

Mafuyu's going to go out on a limb here and theorize Mothrax/Alduskkel as part of the scum group. Mafuyu doesn't like how their posts play off one another. In addition, mothrax isn't in a position to be voting people based on perceived skepticism of ineptitude. That is, his argument applies in parallel to his massclaim attempt.

Vote Mothrax

I think you need to be more specific about how our posts "play off one another."

ok, i think that morthrax and katsuki is scum .
because morthrax accuse katsuki, is a weak attempt at bussing.
then he says 'i dont go after replacements' again a weak attempt at stopping the bussing

and well, so i find the relevant quote later

This is a really weak case. Again, scum team hypotheses before any scum flips is really jumping the gun, and it seems to me that you don't have any individual scum tells on either.

OTOH I'm curious to see if SA will get NK'd or not.

Prophetic words sir. Why mention him getting NK'd at all?

As we know, SA was a power role and power roles tend to get NK'd. I was curious how the NK WIFOM would play out. Would he be left alive to be mislynched? Would he be night killed? Would he remain alive because he was scum? It's not important now since that uncertainty has been resolved.

[Alduskkel]

a2rudeboy hasn't responded to my new case on him. Also, this game is outrageously slow. I think I will reread the game on Thursday or Friday and I'd recommend everyone do the same. Even skimming the game over again. We need to do

something

to try and get this game back up and rolling.

[Alduskkel]

Serial Killers usually don't bypass doctor protections.

[Alduskkel]

Oh, SKs always get at least DI and BI according to the setup. Whoops.