I don't like this plan. Today's lynch is an important one. Worst case scenario, we lynch town today, two towns get bomber'd overnight, a town gets sub'd the next morning, and we're at 3:3:1, with town no longer in control of the lynch. Crosskills are possible but I'd rather not depend on them.
And they better hit nukers because if not they get lit up.
This is a power-heavy setup and definitely winnable at 3:3:1.
As it sits Percy will not be NK'd ever and I think that even a town flip is more than solid.
If townPercy is never NK'd, then that makes talking in the QT dangerous for the scum, which isn't bad. BUT (and I know I said I'd leave it but this thought occurred to me last night)...
AurorusVox wrote:(2) Why fake the Elscouta message as coming AFTER the hammer?
I was thinking about this, and I have come up with a very good reason why scum (or SK) Percy MIGHT have been backtracking and faking an Elscouta message coming post-hammer on this after all...
(a) He starts off trying to throw suspicion onto the people who hadn't hammered Elscouta, hence not mentioning that the message came post-hammer.
(b) He then realises that
he
was voting for Elscouta at the time. If he sticks to the story that the message came pre-hammer, he'd have had to unvote and/or try to slow down the Elscouta mislynch.
I can now see a very good reason for Percy to lie and to backtrack, so I'm unsure whether I still believe him. Either it was something he only realised later, or it's an unfortunate accident of timing. In any case, I could get behind an Enigma, Doomsbunny9 or Percy lynch.
Enigma wrote:For someone who is so smart you just failed miserably.
Your vigenere decoder, it decodes keeping the case constant. Your translations are from upper case to lower case, their translation remains at uppercase.
It also doesn't split text up into multiple lines.
Let me guess ... you decided to write down the entire mumble jumble then retype it into the post using lower case letters. LOLOLOL.
That.. is actually pretty weird. Why would you convert the text but not add the spaces back in?
Enigma wrote:Now timestamps got nuked so I can't compare when this was posted to the leaked messages, if someone want's to do that for me I it would be so appreciated.
Posts 3-5 were bunched together directly after the lynch, so all posts happen before the drop.
Which is actually kinda odd, now that I think about it. Percy didn't get any drops all of Day 2?
But anyway, it seems to fit on that end. By the time the drop hit, Percy had seen message 5, so his 'message is almost certainly intended to be seen by the town' post matches up.
Spyrex wrote:And they better hit nukers because if not they get lit up.
This is a power-heavy setup and definitely winnable at 3:3:1.
Being at 3:3:1 and having nukes flying doesn't fill me with confidence. Town nukes are hardly guaranteed to hit antitown targets. I'd rather have as much of a buffer as possible for when DEFCON 1 hits.
This is a power-heavy setup and definitely losable at 4:2:1.
I am tapping this out on my phone, hence no quotes or links.
Firstyly, apologies, AGM. Warning is duly noted.
Enigma said he would have used "maths based" ciphers, and didn't reply when I called him on this little nugget of bullshit. I find his reaction scummy still.
SpyreX is voting me because I might have the sub. Leave alone how dumb it would be for me to claim Eavesdrop when I don't have it, but apart from that, there is no upside to lynching me. I know I'm town and I'm still consumed with WIFOM whenever I read what I've been given. Knowing that the scum said those things won't help. If you're going to vote me on the limp-wristed strength of Enigma's result, then you're not thinking straight, especially if you think my (inevitable) townflip will help you at all.
The distinction I have drawn in the Doombunny case is not just that it sounds like him (and I was pleased to see Doombunny concede this point), but that it predicted his behaviour the next day so well. Pushing him as I've done has led me to a case that I think is strong enough even without the dropped message.
When I said "I received msgs 4, 5 at night" I meant they were scum nighttalk rather than daytalk. I can see now that I have no reason beyond context to assume msg 3 was daytalk, but that's how I read it.
With regards to the "uppercase" thing, I have two things. Firstly, I suggest you try using the tool to see how difficult it is to decode the vigenere portions. It works eventually if you cyclically permute the codeword like I suggested, but I ended up using pen and paper to confirm. Secondly, even if you don't buy this, I would have had to use a tool to encode the text, so what motive do I, as scum, have in misleading anyone about what tool I used? This says to me that Enigma, for either scummy or petty ego reasons, wants to tear my claim down by any means, and he's lost perspective.
Next up, the "Eavesdrop means scum because I scared everyone" argument from Enigma. Three things. Firstly, I claimed Eavesdrop was my second preference. If anyone else had Eavesdrop as their first or second preference and I was lying, I would have been immediately cc'd. Secondly, I think Eavesdrop is great, and it would have been even better if Enigma hadn't put me in this position today. Thirdly, Enigma panned Fighter if I recall correctly, and now he has it. This is just fucking stupid and I'm not going to waste any more time on it.
As for AV's point about how I might have had scum motive for faking the Elscouta message... ok, I guess? I don't know, I'm not scum. This role is all about WIFOM, and there is nothing I can tell you that will make me confirmed town. I was actually very happy with my Elscouta case until the flip...
I don't think I'll get another chance to do this before deadline, but Doombunny is scum, and I think the way the town have played today is a disgrace. Lynch Doombunny, it's the best and only good lead I have right now.
As many good points that have been made... I just can't piece it together. Percy said something just now, he said if he was scum with sub why would he risk claiming Eavesdrop, not knowing if it was taken or not. I don't have an answer for that. I don't have an answer for why there has been no counter-claim. I just cannot imagine everyone left it sitting there. Additionally, if you know you attempted to pick Eavesdrop and didn't get it, then someone else had to have gotten it. So there's that.
I'm not saying some of you are wrong to challenge Percy here, but I am saying there's but a thin sliver of him possibly being scum.
Vote: Doombunny9
I'm thinking Doombunny was the one who was being addressed with that hammer comment. I'm thinking if Doombunny
does
flip scum, then we'll all feel a lot better about Percy.
Hey, AGM, Doombunny is currently voting for Enigma ^^
I can still get on board with a Doombunny lynch. I've explained why I found his D1 play suspicious, Percy's message could be talking about him (especially considering how he danced around hammering Elscouta late D1).
Vote: Dommbunny9
Enigma: I find it interesting that you voted for DB all of D1, but have barely mentioned him today.
(Fixed, thanks. --AGM)
Last edited by AlmasterGM on Sun Sep 26, 2010 4:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
I'm willing to believe Percy. His reads and suspicions based on the drops add up. There's a lot of convenience going on but one thing that made me suspicious of him was how he started arguing on my part during D2. The drops and him explaining why he thought I was town add up. It's alot WIFOM about the eavesdrop claim/messages but his motives and actions seem pro-town enough for me to accept.
Enigma: You're thinking town-Percy wouldn't get eavesdrop because you told others the disadvantages of it? And you're thinking he's scum because of the convenience and how the dropped message wasn't mentioned in his leaked messages? Why is that scummy?
I want to hear from Enigma before I decide but at this point, I'm down for a RC, Doombunny, or Enigma lynch.
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
No I'm saying Eavesdrop isn't pro town because scum should be smart enough to make sure it won't disadvantage them. And also town has no way of knowing if the messages are genuine and it just becomes a mess of WIFOM. There are much better options for a second preference than Eavesdrop for a pro town player.
All you morons that taking the leaked messages to heart are just as stupid a scum who would be idiotic enough to say such incriminating things in messages that can be leaked.
I stand by my point that I still believe Percy is scum, or maybe SK. And Percy is more than capable of creating some crazy busing play to trick all you naive idiots if Doombunny flips scum.
The messages are inconsistent with the game thus far, and the mental abilities of the players in the game. Anyone smart enough can make up some story which complements their earlier play, it doesn't necessarily mean its true.
Also, Eavesdrop is one of the safer claims as scum because as a result of my denouncing of the ability, it is likely (read not certain) that most townies would not have chosen that ability. And it's convenient that they can fabricate an entire plot simply because they know exactly what is happening in the game.
@Percy
I don't want to answer your question because it's trivial and stupid and proves nothing in regards to the game. Lovely to see how you manipulate that into being scummy.
But just to satisfy your curiosity, I would have used a Hill Cipher. Something simple and easy to understand, and personal preference really.
I actually did try your tool ... that's how I know it keeps the case constant (HURRDHURR). It's not difficult at all, copy paste text, type in code word, copy paste result out. Simplicity. There is zero need to use pen and paper. Your just lucky that town are too dumb to have any understanding of cryptography and are too lazy to try some of the basics out themselves. That or they are just your scum buddies feigning ignorance.
@Hinduragi
If you fail to see why that is scummy (herrpaderrpa because for all you know it could just be a fake claim and he made up all those messages to trick gullible people like you) then I pity you.
AurorusVox wrote:Enigma: I find it interesting that you voted for DB all of D1, but have barely mentioned him today.
Any comment on this observation? I also find it interesting how you're already preparing your reasons for keeping your Percy case going through a DB scumflip with your above post. Do you already know DB's alignment?
I'm sure you find alot of things interesting such as butterflies, walks on the beach and choc chip cookies.
I voted for DB because I didn't support the Escoulta wagon and it was obvious that the narrow minded group of people who voted for him weren't going to rest until he was dead.
It's MY (<-keyword) Percy case, not yours. So I will keep it alive as long as I still continue to find him scummy, which is not for you to decide. Kthx.
Here let's find out DB's alignment since you think it's going to be a scumflip as you just stated above. VOTE: Doombunny
Enigma wrote:It's MY (<-keyword) Percy case, not yours. So I will keep it alive as long as I still continue to find him scummy, which is not for you to decide. Kthx.
Anyway, I wasn't trying to "decide" when it was okay to drop the Percy case; I mean, even if that was what I was trying to do, I've found plenty in Percy's claim that looks suspicious, so I have no problem at all with you finding him scummy. I was more interested in how you were
already
playing with the assumption of a DB scumflip, which - as far as I could see from your votes - you had abandoned during D2.
I want to get something clear before the flip: did you hammer him because you would rather mislynch a townie than have a no lynch; or did you hammer him because you think he's scum?
SpyreX is voting me because I might have the sub. Leave alone how dumb it would be for me to claim Eavesdrop when I don't have it, but apart from that, there is no upside to lynching me. I know I'm town and I'm still consumed with WIFOM whenever I read what I've been given.
Knowing that the scum said those things won't help.
If you're going to vote me on the limp-wristed strength of Enigma's result, then you're not thinking straight, especially if you think my (inevitable) townflip will help you at all.
Uhhh.
On top of the fact you picked the oddest direction in which to make the bolded (one would assume that, as town, you'd say "knowing that I'm town and said those things won't help.") this belies the other much larger issue:
You're absolutely wrong.
A flip from you either way says a LOT about what is going on.
But, it looks like the chucklehead express took off to f--town so if the morrow finds me dead I want this real clear:
If doombunny is town, tomorrow I want an immediate nuke launched at Percy. Immediately.
If doombunny is actually scum I'll eat my crow on this matter but with so much not adding up and the "I know I'm town guys" AND "This town is a disgrace" actually pulling weight enough to swing the wagon I'm shocked.
And, YES, I will throw this hammer down to meet deadline.
Whatever Doombunny flips, Enigma throwing his hands up is bs.
That's always a big red flag for me, especially when it's a hammer.
"Okay, I'll join the wagon... but don't hold me responsible! My hand was forced!"
You are responsible for your actions. Period. Deadline or no, we had a few days before DEFCON 1. In light of Enigma's whining about my hammer yesterday, I'll be damned if I'm going to let him get away with that.
My hand wasn't forced silly ... I did it by my own free will.
It's not like all you ignorant people would actually do more than: "Ohh I agree Percy's story is inconsistent and very convenient but I still think he's town".
RedCoyote ... you sir are a fucking genius. I never knew I was responsible for my own actions. I always thought someone else was responsible for what I did. Thanks for enlightening me buddy.
Please tell me where I explicitly claim that I voted because my hand was forced?
Having someone lynched is a team effort, 6 people contributed to the vote not just one and you contributed to that so stfu. And if I were you I would go google the definition of a few days because your understanding of it is horribly wrong.
He would have been lynched regardless, I just cbf waiting for the day to end and having to read another idiot ignore my Percy case to hammer doombunny. Ironic how we're still waiting huh?
Idiots with your mentality are probably just scum making an excuse so you can say "Ohh I nuked Enigma because I found him scummy for hammering ... HERPADERPADERRRPPPPPP!! "
AurorusVox wrote:I want to get something clear before the flip: did you hammer him because you would rather mislynch a townie than have a no lynch; or did you hammer him because you think he's scum?
