Mini 1063 - Pointlessville (Game Over!)

[cruelty]

confirm

[cruelty]

sorry, had computer issues the last couple days. am reading through the thread now.

[cruelty]

yeah it has. i got infuriated with this game after a couple ridiculous games, am now making a tentative (yet undoubtedly glorious) return.

[cruelty]

anyway, onto the game.

I'm just content letting this play out for the moment as well. My main goal at this point is just to find out whether certain people are just being stupid or are scum. This game is so hard to play with VIs.

a) how are you going to find the answers you seek without asking questions?
b) are you scumhunting, or playing pin the tail on the VI(s)?


@parama, if we entertain the assumption that vibe is town, does that change how you feel about DP? specifically, do you think your case stands if DP isn't bussing/defending (weirdly, he seems to have done both) vibe?

for the record i tend to agree that there's a good chance DP is scum, although i'll also note [somewhat hilariously hypocritically] that there are a few players who've contributed basically nothing, so i'm going to hold fire on voting him until we're playing with a full deck of cards. for now, i'll;

vote: kage

. semi-active lurking. am aware this is still ludicrously early on in the game, but i'm not prepared to let a precedent be set.

[cruelty]

awesome

Oh, so charter is scum too.

And "cautious" scum arrives and votes for a lurker uselessly.

Cruelty/Vibebox/Parama scum team.

ok

two things.

1: i don't think a lurker vote at this point of the game is useless at all. if we assume kage is town, hopefully he gets the message and doesn't lurk the game away, thereby avoiding him drawing needless suspicion. if he's scum, well, i'm voting scum. he'll obviously feel the pressure (much like you seem to be doing), flip out, and we'll lynch him, it'll be fun.

2: the two quotes above are from consecutive posts. your immediate leap from charter to me (it's noted that charter is voting you, and i merely voiced a vague but ultimately unsubstantiated suspicion of you) implies that you feel my (single relevant) post is scummier than charter's (several) post(s). this bothers me, it's not just a clear pattern of omgus being established, but also an implication that you immediately and without reservation disliked something i said. given that your venom is reserved solely for my vote, you've got me wondering if i inadvertently struck gold with kage.


i wanna hear from kage.

[cruelty]

i'm here, i live in new zealand so i'm on at weird times.

that said i'm running really late for work, am down with whatever for claims, will be back in a few hours.

[cruelty]

i'm VT.

happy to vote SC at the moment.

The claim is believable,

but I'm with charter here—Parama should not have

posted his speculation about the entire setup, which may have helped Kitoari if he's scum. I'm willing to go CommieX over Seol if Kitoari isn't scum, though.

trying to create conflict between the bash brothers??

Oh by the way, I am 99% sure the last scum is a bulletproof GF. It's the only way to balance out a 2-goon setup with a vig.

no problems with what you're saying. not entirely down with absolutes (or even 99%s), though. let's not limit ourselves to the assumption that there's a godfather out there.



- kitoari's claim is fun; it's convenient and entirely unprovable. that said, i'm not prepared to lynch a claimed doc on day 2, so i guess this falls more under umbrella of observation rather than declaration of suspicion.



@parama & charter, why are you both voting a claimed doc? you've both posted since his claim.

[cruelty]

This is crap. There are two scum dead and you're still afraid to lynch someone who claims a powerrole? It shouldn't matter if he claimed Jesus Christ, claiming shouldn't save people from lynches. I kept my vote on him because he was scummy and everyone else hadn't claimed.

I would like to hold off claiming my role, because it can still be very useful, but much less so if revealed. Mysterious claim out of the way, I'd also say that (based on my role) I'm pretty much 100% sure Kitaori is telling the truth and is in fact a doctor.

you're positive he's telling the truth about his claim, yet you didn't take the opportunity to unvote until i questioned you about it? despite posting in the interim? c'mon.



@nopoint, thoughts on other people please? tunneling is fun but if you're wrong..

@kage you've posted no actual opinions on people today, merely setup speculation + claim + massclaim discussion. sup breh?

@wingless, care to play the game?



i feel like wingless's vote is pretty opportunistic - along the lines of dropping in, seeing which way the wind is blowing and voting without much reasoning. i'm kinda hesitant to condemn for it given the overall lack of contribution (and because SC is right up there in terms of who i find suspicious) but this is definitely someone i'm interested in hearing more from.

vote: wingless

[cruelty]

yeah i guess that's reasonable.

i don't think that means you can sit in the shadows though; i'd much prefer it if you were at least asking questions of people rather than playing a simple reactive game. you can contribute in ways other than casebuilding.

[cruelty]

suspicious to you, or suspicious to town in general?

there's a distinct difference.

[cruelty]

Ugh fine

unvote, vote: Stranger

Don't blame me when he flips town. At least let's get some progress in this game - I hate when games stall.

so.. you're backing a wagon you think will be a mislynch to prevent stagnation in a day that's gone for about 4 real-time days?

I am questioning your 'get run over by scum' mentality. I didn't unvote until everyone else claimed (except Stranger, because I forgot about him).

Stranger still very much obvscum. If we have to lynch Nopoint or Wingless before we get to him, that's fine with me.

my what now?

if kitoari is cleared by your mystery role, then my being hesitant to vote him is hardly a 'get run over by scum' mentality. additionally, if we're gonna talk about attitudes i'm not entirely thrilled that you're so flexible when it comes to lynches. why are you even entertaining the possibility of lynching someone you don't think is scum?


(still very unhappy with wingless).

(also agree with kage's post above me)

[cruelty]

Man, I have half a mind to switch my vote to Cruelty since he seems more interesting in arguing for no reason than he does in finding the last scum.

i guess that's true. if questioning parama's willingness to lynch based on a fear of stagnation rather than a strong scumread, or wondering about your own willingness to lynch someone you consider less than the ideal lynch arguing.

except, i think both are valid points. clearly both of you are highly unlikely to be scum, but that doesn't make my point any less valid; neither of you appear(ed at the time) to be pursuing your #1 suspects.

Pro-tip: Reads change. Mine have been doing that a lot - trying to get a good grasp on who's scum and who's town. Have a few solid reads and a few that I'm still uncertain of. TBH, we have the lynches so I don't see the need to be 100% precise but I'd really like to lynch who I think is most likely scum.

you read (especially in iso) like you're just desperate for a lynch. not that your reads are changing.

I honestly don't want to lynch Stranger, but I don't want to lynch nopoint either.

ok

Wingless, probably. I'm really not 100% sure.

oh, ok.

Ugh fine unvote, vote: Stranger

huh? i should note that there's actually no reasoning as to why you're down with an SC lynch all of a sudden (but you do leave yourself an out by stating he's town, which you hilariously contradict later on).

unvote, vote: cruelty

ok.

(should prob note at this point that charter mooted the possibility of voting me in the post preceding parama's vote).

charter

nopointinactingup
cruelty

KageLord
Kitoari
Parama
Seol
StrangerCoug
Wingless

nopoint is suddenly 50% scum (was a town read earlier), i'm scum (with no reasoning), wingless is no longer scum (with no reasoning for the 180), strangercoug is cleared, seol is cleared on a vague read, kitoari is cleared (presumably based on charter's semi-claim because parama was ADAMANT about kitoari's guilt earlier in the day)

unvote, vote: StrangerCoug

then the next post SC is suddenly no longer cleared town but is obv scum again.



also;

Ugh fine unvote, vote: Stranger

Don't blame me when he flips town.

At least let's get some progress in this game - I hate when games stall.

SC, why your post is so bad:
1. There is at least a 95% chance that we have 1 scum left.

So you should vote your #1 suspicion no matter what

2. You really think I'm scum who tried to pull of the epic double-bus... on day 1?

unvote, vote parama

[cruelty]

EBWOP

except, i think both are valid points. clearly

both of you are highly unlikely to be scum

, but that doesn't make my point any less valid; neither of you appear(ed at the time) to be pursuing your #1 suspects.

i mean, clearly it's highly unlikely that both of you are scum.

suspicious to you, or suspicious to town in general?

there's a distinct difference.

Not that great difference. If a man is suspicious to a lot of players, then he's suspicious to the town, because the town is not a higher intelligence, that is us. Why would you vote me?

that's retarded cliched consumerist logic


suspicious to you = you've probably actually thought about it.

suspicious to town = you're a sheep.

big difference.


that said i'm pretty happy with you, i think you're just a VI.

[cruelty]

someone please explain to me why parama's innocence is being taken for granted.

(when he cites a double bus as a reason for him not being scum, we're aware that's wifom, correct? [also given the play of dp day one you could make a fairly compelling argument that his lynch was actually beneficial to scum, but that's neither here nor there]).


we have a guy here who's contradicted himself by voting someone other than his #1 suspect after specifically stating that SC was scummy for doing exactly that. also, his votes flip flop throughout day two (wagons, baby), and his reads change (which is fine) without explanation (which isn't). his post 71 (in iso) illustrates exactly what i'm talking about.

i'm also dubious about his early D1 buddying to charter;

Charter is town.

1. Me and charter's playstyles mix together incredibly well
2. Charter has pretty awesome reads already.

most important imo is this;

I'd link you to another game where this

exact same thing happened but it's ongoing

. Like I said, me and charter's playstyles mix really well.

read between the lines; "hey charter we were superpals in another game it's happening again!".

vote: parama

[cruelty]

oh yeah;

Plus, as you said before, even with a mislynch here, and a misfire at night, we will still have 3-person lylo.

The only flaw in the draw plan is that the remaining scum might be RB

, meaning scum would win if we mislynch at 3.

you're still alive, so this is unlikely. i think the optimal play last night would have been to block kito and kill you. occam's razor suggests no rb. this is not fact, though.

he thing is, the setup seems pretty darn unbalanced so far. I don't know what the remaining scum role is, but we have 3 town roles to 1 scum role if you believe Kitaori.

..unless you're an sk.


the most obvious point against that is killing vibe n1 (once vibe was dead, another scum dying and game continuing = your alignment becomes obvious), except that's null because it was pre-claim. also, charter was a universal back-up rather than a specific back-up (eg: nurse) which implies more than one town role, although i guess that's not necessarily the case.

[cruelty]

and here we have a wild cruelty trying to push a bad mislynch when he knows he can't win

lol.

why the step back from the spotlight today man?

[cruelty]

BTW, this is why cruelty killed charter:

LOL

Please vig Cruelty tonight. He's either scum or going to be a gigantic hindrance to the town if we didn't just win.

lol

you're saying that crueltyscum saw that quote and thought shit, this dude is a bigger threat to me than the claimed doc+vigi combo?

gimme a break. if anything, charter died specifically so you could pin his death on me.



also, you're not trying to lynch scum, you're not actually saying anything of value (other than pointing to a shabby framejob you're trying to pull). your contributions today have been as follows;

1: speculation setup, slap on the wrist for kage for not shooting 'scum', vote for me (no reason given).
2: complaint that seol was confirmed town.
3: statement that game is ruined.
4: more stuff about seol, make sure 2 people who aren't parama die (no reason given), game should be over. eyeroll.
5: kitoari is a doctor.
6: setup breakdown, scum = in townies. kill these two (no reason given).
7: something about a song (irrelevant).
8: cruelty's gone crazy! none of my points refuted, though.
9: trying to lynch scum (well this clearly isn't really true. i'll concede that you're trying to lynch someone, though).
10: appeal to emotion (you'll look like idiots when i flip town!).
11: drawing attention to a shoddy frame-up (nobody else noticed so you had to point it out yourself. sucks).


no reasons given for anyone being scum other than speculation about the reason charter was killed. lots of suggestions to town that we should do this and that.

[cruelty]

iso is short for isolation. down the bottom of each page you can choose to display posts in isolation (eg: all my posts by themselves).

[cruelty]

Coheed and Cambria is never irrelevant!

i don't even know who they are though!

[cruelty]

Nopoint is scum if cruelty is not.

ie: i'm not 100% convinced that the guy i'm trying to lynch without a case isn't scum.


also agreed that the others need to get involved. especially nopoint, who needs to respond to per's case.

[cruelty]

oh he is too, i forgot about that.

i think the question should be, "why don't i find nopoint to be as scummy as parama?" mostly because my feelings on parama are fairly well documented.

the answer is because whilst i generally have no issues with your case on nopoint, i feel as though he's at least been consistent. his suspicions of kitoari/kitoari's claim were documented back in his iso post 1 (which is his second post), i thought his case on SC whilst not great, was an actual case (something we're not seeing at all from parama) and i don't get the feeling that he's been a) directing the town and b) ducking the spotlight (unlike parama).


so i'd concede that yes, there's absolutely a case to be made on nopoint, but he's not my #1.

[cruelty]

http://www.quicktopic.com/44/H/wUMxW935BcRMY