Mini 1070 The Godfather:Hunt for Sollozzo (GAME!)

[RedCoyote]

I'm confirming that I understand my role and win condition.

Mod

, I'm going to pick at your ruleset a bit just to make sure I understand everything.

Failure to respond to this prod will result in the replacement of that player.

Is there a specific time limit for this, or is this subjective/circumstantial?

Also do you have anything in mind for extensions?

---

Disclosure: I have never heard of this book/movie before

You're kidding me.

Mario Puzo's original novel was a best seller. The original film and the sequel both won Best Picture academy awards, along with many other additional awards. The film itself is a cinematic icon. The first and the second film are arguably among the best films ever made. They are absolutely iconic to the organized crime genre as well. If you have any interest at all in American/Italian mafia organizations, then you should really try to check it out!

---

I miss the idea of confirming by PM. I miss people sharing their excitement with me.

I love my role... and I'm excited.

[RedCoyote]

Well, the book was published in, oh, I think '70 or '71. I guess I could double check my facts since I'm on the Internet and all...

It's a fictional novel but it is, as the Mod quoted, a fairly accurate representation of New York crime in the late 30's/early 40's.

The book and the films are both a little mature, but I'd consider them mild by today's standards.

[RedCoyote]

I got an idea, let's gang up on the guy who's trying to bring us out of RVS.

Vote: Thor665

---

The Mod mentioned the video game. I've played it, but I wouldn't want that to influence this game. It was so-so. It felt like a poorly made GTA clone. I don't remember it very well; I just remember it being kind of glitchy and repetitive.

[RedCoyote]

Why wouldn't we go out of RVS?

I was being facetious. Were you unable to see that, or did you vote me in spite of that?

---

pacman's post 55 seems a little frantic. Are you normally this on edge, pacman, or is it because you have votes on you?

---

Btw, Andrius, if blue is anyone's color, feel free to change this^to navy. Kthx.

Also

/confirm

My role will never get me nightkilled unless I play extremely pro-town.

Is the blue supposed to indicate anything specific?

Additionally, what do you mean about the last sentence? Why are you talking about your role?

---

Oh hey guys, mafia get daytalk until 5pm PST. Let's stop posting until then shall we?

This was a good idea, did you just think of it when you posted this?

Also, do you think FC and Bub are slightly more suspicious because they ignored your request without addressing it?

---

I'm sorry that you now dislike me, you can still have some of my scumday cake, however.

Happy belated scumday, btw. I forgot to say that to you. pacman would do well to remember that this isn't personal... it's just

business

.

[RedCoyote]

My thoughts: lengthening RVS only helps scum. Therefore, RedCoyote's "facetious" attempt at lengthening RVS was anti-town.

I don't think you quite understand... I was being sarcastic; that was the point.

---

If I were waiting for something popular, I wouldn't have stepped forward and claimed 'x and y is scum'. That is a) very risky move for scum, specially on early game, and b) DOING something which goes against the definition of 'waiting for something'.

But that's the things with crap-traps. They're part-crap, part good. However, there's a difference. While I'm being completely conscious about what I'm saying, besides making a claim that 'x and y is scum', the responses I got were not the same. In fact, they're actually devoid of any direct answer to that statement. To everything anyone says, other people have unconscious reactions which they are not aware of. And that's generally how scum slip, wich is what I was trying to scan.

In other words you're lecturing everyone on how pro-town you are. This sort of conceit does not strike me as particularly positive.

ROLEFISHING HUH
Why address this and not address the 'discuss' part? What is the town motivation to find a comment about one's own role more interesting than a 'x and y are scum' claim? Specially, because I wasn't the only one who commented on his own role after confirming. What is town's motivation to ask 'why are you talking about your role'?

Don't tell me what I should and shouldn't bring up. You're the one who said it. I have no interest in you shooting your mouth off about x and y being scum because I know it has no substance to it, but if you're going to wave your hands up in the air and say, "Hey guys, btw, I have a role that will get me nightkilled!!!!", then that's something the

town

should deal with. If you can't keep your mouth shut about your role like the other 11 players, then that's something the

town

will have to deal with now. Maybe you're content with assuming the scum don't notice things like that, but I, for one, play as though the scum would be able to at least pick up anything I can and then some.

---

@Bub: Bandwagons are major source of information. Therefore, I believe it's good idea to build one right away.

Do you think Bub is sweating over a vote that you just admitted is pressure-based?

[RedCoyote]

Unvote

;

vote: bv310

Give us something to work with.

[RedCoyote]

Well, he said he was going to make a new post, and he hasn't.

Just about everyone else has, more or less, given us something to analyze. It's time for bv310 to take a stance on something going on, or, failing that, give us something else to talk about.

[RedCoyote]

Vote: RedCoyote

Bad acting is bad acting.
In short, BS pressure vote to look town.

That's a valid point. It's incorrect, of course, but it's valid nonetheless. I'm not trying to "look" anything. Do you dispute that bv said he was going to post on Wednesday but did not? Do you dispute that bv is the last person to give any substantial analysis? Nothing about what I said is disputable factually, but, then again, you're not coming at me with the claim that my vote isn't rational, you're saying my motivation for it should be in question.

*shrugs*

It's your call, Kat. I can make a meta argument if you'd like, but I'm not exactly sure how I can retort that doesn't just amount to, "It's not a BS vote".

---

The quote this is adressing asked 'why didn't you do this' and such, it didn't say what you should or should not be doing.

The implication is clearly there. You're making this into the Exilon show, you know, and we're all little action figures in your cardboard box.

It's fine if you want to be a leader, but you're already rubbing me the wrong way.

Also, this:

Hey guys, btw, I have a role that will get me nightkilled!!!!"

, is not what I said.

The effect is the same. The point I'm making is that you're softclaiming.

Again, same question posed: Commenting on a role is more important than commenting on a 'x and y is scum' claim?

Because there is no scumtell, no read, and no power, that I know of, that will give you a perfect predicition of every player's alignment some 3 or 4 pages into the game. That's pure arrogance and foolhardy behavior that will just set everyone off course. The only players that know the scum are the scum themselves.

Commenting on the role becomes more important when you softclaim out of the blue.

Also, that part of the quote... it makes no sense. Please explain your last sentence? Again, I ask, 'why does town have to deal with it?'

You don't have to ask the same question multiple times in one post. My last sentence means that if I'm able to pick up on your, "I have a role that will get me nightkilled", then the scum will just as easily be able to.

---

It's slightly dangerous to say, but...I agree with Katsuki ::dives for cover::. The point on Red Coyote makes sense - declaring 'this is a pressure vote' when making a pressure vote sort of defeats the pressure, and thus the purpose, of the vote.

I don't get why it's "dangerous" to say you agree with Kat, or why you'd feel the need to dive for cover. Because of her age or meta? I mean, I understand this is more than a little tongue-in-cheek, but this rubs me the wrong way. Frankly, Kat is one of the most productive players so far, imo.

Anyways, your argument is slightly different. You're saying I'm being hypocritical. I would counter that FG's vote is significantly different than mine.

FG: Let's see how Bub acts with... two votes on him!
RC: bv said he'd do x, but he didn't. I'm voting him until he does something.

There's a stated purpose for my vote, whereas FG is just voting for voting's sake. I'll admit that my vote is less of a threat because of the purpose I've given it, but my vote is not intended to be working towards a lynch anyways.

Also I agree with your point against Zaj.

---

Red is my #1 scum read right now simply for his vote on bv. That is the single most glaring scum tell so far to me.

Why are you not voting me then? I do not like this. This sounds very forced.

His answer didn't convince me, because bv wasn't the only one who hadn't given much to analyze, and he's going through midterm week.

I'm getting a little sick of this. Kat did this too, but it's worse when you do it because it seems like you're just rewording what she said. I'm a student too, and I have mid-term tests as well. I'm not some anti-education ogre who is punishing precious, innocent bv, okay? Let's keep this in perspective and not use AtE to twist the situation up. bv said he'd post two days ago and he hasn't done so. Period.

Furthermore, I'm not even aiming these big guns at bv like you and Thor are claiming. I mean, I'm not sitting here pushing a lynch. I'm effectively saying, "Hey, bv, I noticed you didn't post, so don't think you're going to get to fly under the radar".

[RedCoyote]

I've already answered the bolded part.

So you don't like to throw around a vote. Okay, fair enough, but you're not voting anyone. It seems like a cop out answer. There's a thin line between not throwing your vote around and acting too passive.

Anyways, what you and Thor seem to be saying is that I could accomplish the same goal without using a vote at all. I guess that's fair enough; I'll back down.

Unvote

;

vote: FakeGod

For his general lack of passion and willingness to kind of preemptively assign his vote on a theoretical basis I guess is how I would describe it. I've never really heard of this strategy, but it sounds fake at worst and misguided at best.

---

...wow, I have a *very* different read on the effectiveness of Katsuki's posts then you do. I think there have effectively been 2.5 out of 9 that had any point to the game at all - maybe I'm just really dumb.

I don't and wouldn't count anyone's pre-game posts.

As far as diving for cover, it's because my tongue had to leap into the cheek trench due to the danger all around me. I'm fine if it "rubs you the wrong way" though I surmise you probably have little joy in your life.

Look, I get it's a joke. I'm not saying joking rubs me the wrong way. I'm just saying I don't really get it, especially given that I don't see Kat as particularly anti-town, which was, I take it, the implication of the joke.

Why do you think bv is worse in breaking his promise of when to post then pacman is?

pacman has given content, bv hasn't.

[RedCoyote]

@RedC: I don't get the "preemtive voting based on theory" thing. Explain?

I don't either. You're the one who made the post. It was something like... you're going to vote the next person to start a bandwagon. You threw Bub's name in there at some point. I don't like it, FG, and I don't really care for your interactions so far.

---

Will let Exilon vs. RedCoyote play out a bit.

Sorry to say that I don't have much more I want to bring up with Exilon at the moment. Everyone seems to think that Exilon's posts are filled with funny jokes that I'm, apparently, too dumb to understand. "The above sentence is a trap", "I'm claiming but I'm not", "this person is scum but he's really not". Sounds like a bunch of non-sequiturs and arrogance to me, but I have no idea how to even have a discussion about it.

[RedCoyote]

Ok awesome, but let's take a look at what I actually said.

I'll put my vote on the highest wagon after Andy gives us a VC.

and if you were unsure what I meant there for whatever reason, then let's look at what I posted right afterward after Andrius gives us a VC.

......and there is no highest bandwagon.

It should be pretty obvious what I meant at this point.

Instead of skimming everything, you should actually read if you're gonna go around accusing people.

Yeah, uh, if you have to double back and explain your "my vote is reserved for the highest bandwagon" theory, then it stinks. Sorry, this is just, like, you're admitting that you have no purpose for your vote other than to lynch whoever the most popular vote getter is. For you to announce is to act as though you have some sort of presence in this game. It's all fake. It's all made up. No one needs to tell you how to vote.

[RedCoyote]

@RedCoyote - you're seriously advancing as a theory that scumFG declared in thread "I'mma just support that highest bandwagon!" and that this action is scummy? Pretty much every game opener I've done in the past half year I've used the exact same logic and my first vote is always to the highest wagon (unless I'm the highest, natch) - what's so scummy about that at that stage of the game?

So, should we all just pile on Exilon then? He's a popular vote getter, so he must be scum? Why aren't you voting him?

[RedCoyote]

Hey Antihero. Please bring a little common sense to this game with you. I'm being assaulted from all sides.

---

Amazing, you responded with a mix of sarcasm and set up a straw man all in one go. Do you really think it's so unreasonable of me to ask you to explain why you think something you're calling scummy was scummy? Do you think his stated lynch plan is really identical to the example you just provided?

Look, the point I'm making is that, "I'm going to support the highest wagon" is surely not optimal play. I'm not sure why it is you're breaking up the game into stages. That's not a random vote (it's clearly aimed at whoever is the most popular vote getter), and it's not an independent vote either. What "stage" do you feel this comment would be appropriate in?

I do find it scummy. For you to sit here and write it off as "something you do", is that supposed to make me feel better about him?

---

Why do you protect him?

Explain what you mean.

---

You're attempting to apply RVS logic on to general mafia play. It does not follow.

Voting for the highest bandwagon is a random vote, FG?

---

Now, exilon calling you out on rolefishing was legit. I'm not sure what you're getting bent out of shape about.

Explain why. He said he had a role that would get him killed. I asked why he said that. Where's the rolefishing? I think you're skimming over the issue a bit.

[RedCoyote]

I don't understand your conclusion. How is that random in anyway? There's clearly a stated purpose to it. Whoever is getting the most votes will get mine in addition.

I honestly don't understand where either of you are coming from. FG's comment wasn't even during the RVS. To wit, FG criticized me about how the RVS was over. He even did that one better, he actually said it was anti-town to try and extend it. Then he turns around and tells Bub that he wants to build a bandwagon right away.

I think you're in an untenable position here, Thor. Either you should explain how a so-called random vote is random when FG comes out and says that there's a purpose behind it, or you'll have to explain why it's a good idea to appeal to popularity with your D1 vote.

To be more blunt, the scum motivation behind this is FG is hypocritically throwing around positions about what he thinks is anti-town and what's not. I think it's safe to assume that we have a player here who is playing fast and loose with his principles. This indicates to me that we have someone who is trying to act town instead of actually

being

town.

[RedCoyote]

RVS isn't random, it's just called that. You're silly.

I don't know what to say to you here, Thor. Unless you're one of those, "there's no such thing as a random vote" people, then I don't see how we can continue this discussion. If I can't even get you to acknowledge that there is such a thing as a random vote and one that isn't, then we're just at fundamentally different ends of the theoretical spectrum here. You seem like a rational person, so I honestly don't see where the disconnect here is. I don't think I could be more clear on my position, and I think it's piercingly valid. I'll concede that my case is a stretch, but it's no more a stretch than any early D1 vote, especially given the fact that 3 or 4 of our players haven't really given us anything in a few days, and one hasn't really posted at all yet.

---

Explain how voting for the highest wagon is not RVS logic.

and you misrepped me. I didn't criticize you because RVS was over. That doesn't even make sense.

I clearly said that you were trying to lengthen RVS, which is clearly anti-town.

And I'm not "throwing around positions about what I think is anti-town or not." Again, you're misrepping my position.

Since I sincerely believe in my position, I'm ready to argue against you for my position.

If you wish to tell me that lengthening RVS isn't anti-town, go right ahead. I'll argue back.

You're missing the point, big man. It has nothing to do with what you or I think about RVS.

Appealing to popularity is blatantly unrandom.

"I vote John because my quarter told me to" is random, "I'm voting whoever has the most votes when I get back" isn't. If you can't even acknowledge that, then we can't have any form of reasonable discussion here.

---

FG certainly seems like a functionally obvious mislynch candidate due to the way he's playing, but to be advancing a scumtell like that I almost wonder if RC is the type of scum to lead a case and try to push it on a VI.

It's too easy to write candidates off like that. I'm sure you've played with actual VI's before, FG doesn't strike me that way (no one here does, even Exilon is a million times better than a player like drmyshottyizsick or millar13).

[RedCoyote]

If it's not random (like I was originally arguing to begin with, it was you and FG who, for some reason, felt the need to even bring RVS discussion into this at all, by the way) then my original point stands. Frankly, it doesn't matter whether he used his vote or not, it's selling out your vote and it's faking content. If you don't agree with that, I'd rather you just say that then try to sell me some garbage about how it's in the RVS or whatever.

Actually, him actually not following through makes it all the more worse. "There's no highest vote getter, so I guess I can't use my vote" was basically what he was implying at that point. Moreover, his attempt (and you coming to his aid for whatever reason) to play damage control and try to convolute the issue by insisting that it was somehow tied to the RVS (you bring it up in post 191, then FG decides that's a good defense and runs with it in post 194), makes it look all the more worse.

Additionally, as I was going back over the exchange, I'm really put off by both Kat and Zajnet's votes. Zajnet's vote was already addressed. He's given us nothing except for the position that he doesn't like to switch his vote and then piggybacks on those voting me. He's not giving any sort of unique content. Kat's vote, while it would've been fine if she would've taken the time in here to engage me, now sticks out like a sore thumb. She basically says, "Meh, don't have time for the game, just, like, vote RC since I voted him before. Whatever." The fact is, she does have time for the game. She feigns interest here, but anyone can go look at Kat's sitewide posting history and see that she's not only posting but actually staying very active in

multiple

games. So she's active lurking without a doubt.

In other words, I would like to see some votes on FG, Kat, or Zajnet. I think these are all good places to work with, and I'd like more people than just Thor to either agree with me or engage me.

[RedCoyote]

There are a couple of those types of posts, but there's more to it than that. Look, I'm not going to go into ongoing game territory, but there's a game where Kat posted 10 or 11 times on Tuesday alone. I'm not saying the same effort should be matched across all of her games, but when you haven't given us a decent post in a week, that's a more than a little noticeable.

Anyways, don't take my word/Kat's word for it. Go look at her history yourself and come to your own conclusions.

[RedCoyote]

Pacman, Zajnet, and bv could all use a prod if you ask me.

[RedCoyote]

@Exilon - you, RC, and myself ought to debate RVS methodology sometime.

Hah, sure.

---

Mod

, don't be afraid to throw that prod around. They signed up for this game, and they need to play or get out.

We're wasting precious D1 time on inactivity here, and the scum are loving every minute of it.

[RedCoyote]

OK, I can buy this.

Why are you asking Thor for voting tips and not anyone else? My suspicions are public record, do all three of them not tickle your fancy at all, or did Thor really just sell Bub that much better?

---

Would someone explain to me what fencesitting is? I need to understand it because it is said in this topic.

Fencesitting is, like, trying to straddle two sides of an issue. It's an accusation that someone is trying to appeal to two sides of an argument that usually requires a firm answer.

Also, I can't imagine how someone could have too much trouble keeping up with this game. It's moving at a crawl.

[RedCoyote]

The question was initially an open one as to what the case is on you, and Thor665 suggested I consider Bub Bidderskins instead. I never directly asked anyone whom I should vote, as I interpret your question.

I realize that, but I essentially threw my suspicions out to everyone, openly, SC included, before you even asked.

Was there a specific reason that you decided not to comment? Should I take it that Thor's case is more appealing?

---

RC

:
He votes Thor for taking us out of RVS. Why? He talks about Exilon's role. Why? He makes a pressure vote on bv310. He thinks Exilon wants to be a leader. He agrees with Thor about Zajnet, who doesn't put here the suspicions and who wants to remain flexible. He votes FG for having no motivation to the game. He thinks FG's highest wagon is strange. He says the sarcasm post about everybody voting Exilon.
My thoughts: a bit scummy. He isn't parroting. There are a few scummy things about him, but nothing really serious.

Again, it was clearly a sarcastic comment. I was being cute, but I had no idea it would be blown up the way it has.

I never "talked about Exilon's role". All I did was ask him why it was he was even bringing it up. Wingless, if you were given a "role that could get you nightkilled", would you announce it to everyone?

---

I still think RC is the scummiest person here, I'll probably get around to an iso soon.

Yeah, you and Kat are just two peas in a pod, huh?

[RedCoyote]

If you think your cases are better than Thor's on Bub Bidderskins, then by all means point me to them so I can look them over.

Post 202 explains my FG vote in further detail, but it also goes into why Kat and Zaj are good D1 lynches.

---

Yeah, the prods were picked up, but they're still not doing anything about it. I like how Kat is replacing into 86 page games (this isn't the game itself, this is a link to the replacement queue thread) but can't be bothered to keep up with this one.

Unvote

;

vote: Katsuki

I think we're obliged to burn a lynch on a lurker. It's just out of control at this point. bv has effectively made zero posts this game. pacman will be gone for a bit longer. Kat doesn't care. Zaj doesn't care. Antihero, Bub, FG, Exilon are running at about a post every couple of days (no, I don't count "I'm here, I'm posting tomorrow" nonsense). So, you know, there you go. There's 8 out of 12 players. Take your fucking pick.

I mean, I'm sorry for that, but I've about had it. Exilon gives us a Wingless vote of all things. Completely out of the blue. At this rate we'll have 6 wagons with one person each by the deadline. I hope to God that Thor, SC, and Wingless are all town. Since us four are holding the game up, I suspect we're going to have to get together if the town will have any hope of lynching today.

If I can't convince everyone to take out one of the chronic lurkers (e.g. bv, Kat, or Zaj), then I will get on the Bub wagon. This is a pretty pathetic start to this game though, I must say.

[RedCoyote]

I am only replacing into that game because mod can not find anyone else, as I had signed up for replacement a month ago.

Perhaps more people should vote you Kat. It seems to be the only thing that gets you to pay attention to this game.

No, I don't want you to have Mr. Flay PM me, I want you to give

this

game the attention it deserves. I could care less whether you were in line to replace or not. I know I would never replace into an 86 page large game if I couldn't even keep up with my 11 page mini games, regardless of whether I was in line to or not. I also know I wouldn't take advantage of a game where 8 of the players are posting at an extremely slow rate or not at all

unless

I was scum. As a townie, I'd be pissed at this nonchalance, and if I was part of the problem, I would get my act together or I would apologetically replace out.

Moreover, I wouldn't be asking questions that I obviously don't care about the answers to. That's called faking activity, Kat.

So, Kat, come in here and start tearing me apart, but quit giving excuses and making emotional appeals. Tell us why the Bub wagon is a bad idea. Tell us why I should be lynched, or whoever else. Do that or replace out of this game. If you're a townie, you're wasting a slot that can be used for someone who has the time to play the game. I don't think you are though. I think this replacing into an 86 page game is just the straw that broke the camel's back.

I would love to hear whynot zajnet.

Why not Zaj? Why not you? Why not anyone of the 8 I mentioned? Be honest, you only care because it was you. If you weren't looking at this game through scum-tinted glasses you'd acknowledge how much of a drag you'd been instead of making excuses and trying to call me scummy for making a valid point. But what do you care? I'm the only one who's calling you out for this, so all you have to do is continue to paint me as the bad guy and there's no real harm done, right?

---

What exactly are you calling Exilon down on?

His vote is misguided. He's making a new wagon on Wingless out of the blue. He basically ignores everything that went on in the thread for the past 4 pages or so. Thor is right, he's completely self-centered (but I caught on to that some time ago). Do you realize, with that vote, we now have 7 different people being voted? This is what happens when no one is here to debate and argue. I contend we need to address this problem by voting one of the lurkers, and I singled out Kat because she's paying attention to this game, she just doesn't care. I think if Kat was really too busy for this game, she wouldn't spring into action the second someone voted her, nor would she willingly replace into an 86 page game.

Check this out, I've been crunching some numbers.

There are now 257 total posts in the game so far. If you subtract the posts from Thor, Me, SC, Wingless, and the Mod, you get 119 posts. That means that more than 50% of the activity in this game has come from four players. If you subtracted all the posts that were little more than "I'm posting tomorrow" or "I have activity issues and will post later", it would be even more lopsided. Hell, I'd argue that me and Wingless aren't even really heavy posters. Rarely do either of us make more than one post a day, and we both average just slightly more than that.

[RedCoyote]

It doesn't matter if we extend the deadline or not. I think it's clear Kat is the worst offender here, but I could argue until I'm blue in the face... if I'm not being listened to (that is, being listened to by anyone who hasn't been active), it doesn't matter. I strongly urge the

Mod

to at least try to get some replacements in here.

The worst part is that I don't feel like SC or Thor are particularly townie. Wingless is probably the only person in this game I feel okay about, and possibly Antihero too (but that could be bias talking).

So, whatever,

unvote

;

vote: Bud Bidderskins

. Extending the game by a day won't help. If anything it's going to be worse this weekend (Halloween weekend in the US).

[RedCoyote]

Good to know you'll be back in time to get Bub voted. How gracious of you. And you'll be fine with a Zajnet lynch? Such options to choose from... we are truly blessed. Watch out scum, Kat will move her vote to avoid a no lynch!

I can hear the teeth chattering from here.

(This is a sarcastic post, by the way. I know I've been criticized for it in the past, so I thought I'd add a helpful disclaimer.)

[RedCoyote]

Surely you must be joking.

I suppose you think Kat, FG, and Zaj are all great townies too, yeah?

Seriously though, I've got to hear this one, gandalf. You've had time to read the thread. Give it to me.

[RedCoyote]

Vote: antihero

Conclusion: pacman and/or Exilon is probably mafia, and FG and/or RC is probably town.

Why would you not vote someone who is "probably mafia"?

---

See, I, for one, think Strangercoug was a mafia kill and Thor was the vig kill, mainly because Stranger was laying a bit low but was acting in a townish way (or at least that's what kinda showed by the lack of attacks on him) and that wouldn't probably let himself be pushed into a mislynch. Thor's case is a bit different, as he was a bit more participative, had some people suspecting him, etc.. In any case, discussing what was vig kill/sk/mafia is a bit irrelevant and doesn't add much to the game.

Interesting perspective. Why do you not think it adds to the game though? Do you think FG doesn't have a point? Do you think it's too WIFOMy?

---

Exilon was technically Wingless's first suspect. But doesn't that mean Bub was his second suspect, not me? What?

Conclusion: Wingless isn't even keeping track of his own suspects.

Explain this. I don't get the same vibe at all. Wingless voted Bub long before he "suspected" you as far as I know.

[RedCoyote]

gandalf is the closest thing we have to "confirmed town". If anyone thinks he's lying, they should speak up now. Because of this, I'd really like him to take the time to read the thread if he can. It's not very hard, gandalf. There are a lot of fluff and, "oh, I'm going to post later" posts.

Zajnet and Kat are completely ignoring the game, despite the Mod telling us all that the game has started. It figures.

As far as I'm concerned, we could lynch both of these people. I can virtually guarantee you one of them are scum. Do you know how I know? Scum are playing the inactivity card, and they're playing it hard. When I did everything I could to call attention to it, Kat voted Bub. Who were the kills last night? The two biggest contributors. One of them was killed by mafia, but it doesn't matter which one because they were both making more posts than anyone else.

Bub Bidderskins (7): Thor665, Wingless, RedCoyote, FakeGod, Exilon, Katsuki, gandalf5166

RedCoyote (1): Zajnet
FakeGod (2): Antihero, Bub Bidderskins
Katsuki (1): StrangerCoug

Not Voting (1): pacman291282

I've yet to come across a game where there wasn't at least one scum on the first lynch, so let's break it down.

Thor is town. I'm town. gandalf is probably town (miller claim). I personally think Wingless is town (I know some of you dispute this, but let's go with my point of view for the sake of argument).

That leaves FG, Exilon, and Kat. I'm so-so on Exilon, but he's definitely more likely to be town than both FG and Kat.

Kat is both in the active lurking category and on the Bub wagon. She's asked questions of people without following up on them (meaning she was faking activity). She's been on V/LA for, like, two weeks, yet she always seems to have time to post when anyone votes her. She only moved to Bub to get the lynch to go through, as far as I know she never even suspected Bub.

Vote: Katsuki

[RedCoyote]

It's like watching half a movie and explaining the ending...

[RedCoyote]

I really don't feel like putting a lot of effort into this game right now.

I was very busy yesterday.

Yeah, I had only read up to page 7.

If there's anyone rational left in this game, just let me lead you. Y'all are obviously all to busy to play the damn game except for FG and Wingless. I swear that I'm just going to stop making posts again.

Just vote with me because, frankly, I'm getting sick of checking this thread every day for nothing. I'll win the damn game myself. We went with Thor's (no offense if you're reading this, Thor) stupid lynch yesterday, and Bub was a horrible lynch if y'all don't mind me saying so. It was a complete shot in the dark. Bub hadn't said anything incriminating that I can recall. He was a mediocre townie who was gone half the day anyways. How Thor managed to corral us into that is still beyond me. I gave up trying to stop it because SC and Antihero were seemingly the only players who gave me the time of day. Now I capitulated yesterday due to the coming deadline and the inactivity, but there's no excuse for me to do it today. Everyday I read this thread I get more and more aggravated. We're not going to get a new Zaj post for a week. Kat has checked out. pacman has made a total of one post in the past two weeks due to his V/LA. Antihero is still below any reasonable post threshold. gandalf basically had a week to read 14 pages of "can't post now, be back soon", but didn't do it... etc.

Confront me or follow me, but please don't ignore me. Hell, I'll even accept y'all going with Exilon, FG, or Wingless at this point. At least make a stand.

This is the last time I'm complaining about it though. I know I sound like a broken record. I'll make a promise to stop, regardless whether y'all heed my advice or not. This is not like me, by the way. I'm direct, sure, but I try to be very polite. I'm just sick of the constant excuses though. I was really looking forward to this game and I take it as a personal slight that so many of you could care less about playing it. This isn't an obligation to me; this is something I do for fun.

[RedCoyote]

I agree with you on your point that inactivity is not helping the game at all. That town has to waste lynches on inactive people is hateful. Not yet voting Katsuki, though, as I want PRESSURE ON WINGLESS.

If it was anyone but Wingless, I may be open to persuasion. I just don't see it here. I'd like Wingless to fight back more, but, honestly, Wingless seems like one of the few players who is explaining his positions and sincerely trying to arrive at conclusions.

This post in particular seems quite good to me. He clearly explains how he arrived to a Bubscum conclusion (although I very much disagree with him) and he followed through.

---

And Wingless said I was his 2nd suspect. Bub is his second suspect. That makes me #3, not #2 as he said.

I think Bub and FG are the most scummy now.

FG, what do you say to this?

@RC: I would be willing to go with you if you have a better reason than "Let's Lynch a Lurker!"

Kat is both in the active lurking category and on the Bub wagon. She's asked questions of people without following up on them (meaning she was faking activity). She's been on V/LA for, like, two weeks, yet she always seems to have time to post when anyone votes her. She only moved to Bub to get the lynch to go through, as far as I know she never even suspected Bub.

She's done more than that. She's been faking activity by asking questions and then not following up with them. She stuck her vote on the Bub wagon without any real reason for doing so (other than to get a lynch). Whoever replaces her has a chance to redeem the slot, but I think it's the best angle we've got now.

[RedCoyote]

FG, no offense, but I think it's a pretty lame argument. I've read over Wingless and I don't see any insincerity. Maybe he was a little overzealous in pushing Bub yesterday, but that's a pretty big stretch.

[RedCoyote]

If stating and acknowledging your lack of activity = faking activity then sure. If you accused me of outright lurking then ok, but you're accusing me of active lurking, which is not what I have been doing (aka, RC misrep on me).

I'll gladly post it again, but I thought you were replacing out.

So I was suppose to sit around and leave my vote idle a day out from deadline? I think not.

Let's not get into what you're "supposed" to do, hon. For starters, you're "supposed" to not leave your town hanging while you replace into more games. Don't blame me for calling attention to your poor vote.

---

And how would Carlo Rizzi be mafia?

Carlo Rizzi could very easily be a mafia role, actually. He basically setup Sonny's death.

[RedCoyote]

You may post "it" again.

This is the only post where you ever asked a non-rhetorical, game related question of someone else, and you never did anything with it. I hope everyone can let the full impact of that sink in. Kat has only asked one real question during this entire game, and she never did anything with the answer at all.

I confronted you with it here, but you ignored me. Then SC voted you, and that finally got you to make a post. What a surprise; it was an attack on SC for "misreading" you. Every time someone has something critical to say about you, you throw it back in their face. That sort of antagonism may benefit scum (e.g. "Don't you dare say anything bad about me or I'll attack you right back!"), but it's usually not the best approach for townies. Most townies realize that the majority of players aren't out to "misread" anyone. They're trying to come to the best conclusion they can with the facts they have. Do you really think that SC and I were trying to purposefully frame you? No, Kat, you put yourself in that position. SC's flip should be some sort of a wake up call in that regard.

[RedCoyote]

Zaj, you should claim. I'm very prepared to hammer this. If I can't get Kat then I'll surely take Zaj today.

If Zaj is town then Kat and FG must be scrutinized.
If Zaj is scum then one of Kat/FG is probably bussing, the other scum I'm going to have to thinking harder about (Antihero, Exilon, or Wingless most likely).

I would really like to hear more from pacman before we finish the day though...

[RedCoyote]

Really love this post. If Zaj flips town, look at kat and FG. If Zaj flips scum, still look at kat and FG.

Uh, no. If Zaj is town then both of you are scum, if he's scum then only one of you are. That's a bold prediction. I've disliked Zaj for most of the game, but you are significantly worse given that you were on Bub's wagon. You should thank your lucky stars that everyone loves you.

---

@RC: Kat's right. It seems like you already made up your mind that FG/Kat is scum no matter what Zaj flips.

Then why push Zaj lynch at all?

Zajnet and Kat are completely ignoring the game, despite the Mod telling us all that the game has started. It figures.

As far as I'm concerned, we could lynch both of these people.

Go back to my earlier post.

I wanted Kat first, but, failing that, Zaj and you were next in line. I'm pushing Zaj because I've been pushing Kat forever and no one wants to give me a hand.

---

If Zaj doesn't claim in his next post I'm voting him btw.

[RedCoyote]

Seriously. Your posts are now just words expressing your desire for Kat scum with next to no scumhunting.

How can I scumhunt when you, Zaj, Antihero, Exilon, and pacman go for several days without posting? What scumhunting have you done? "RC is picking on me... misrep!", "SC is picking on me... misrep!", etc. I mean, what else am I supposed to say here? I've tried multiple times to bitch everyone out about activity, but everyone seems content on keeping it this way.

Additionally, I don't know how I'm expressing any "last resort" theme. I'm making it clear you're still the best lynch for today, but I have no problem with lynching Zaj either.

---

I don't buy Zaj's claim. gandalf is pretty much on the money. It sounds very fake. Rocco Lampone is indeed a character, but he's kind of a minor role.

Unvote

;

vote: Zajnet

[RedCoyote]

A) Why is gandalf still alive? (and why is he the most useless player in this game?)

B) FG is scum.

C) Antihero is his partner. Luca Brasi makes perfect sense as an investigative role.

D)

Vote: Antihero

[RedCoyote]

Hmmm... simlupost.

Well, that was quick.

[RedCoyote]

FG, I think I was a bit rash earlier. Me, you, and Wingless are pretty much confirmed at this point given the vote counts. The first day was a bit odd.

Vote: gandalf5166

for trying to prevent Antihero's lynch. Antihero was the obvious choice yesterday even before the investigation, frankly.

[RedCoyote]

I need to reread as well, but, frankly, I'm also leaning toward Exilon. Mostly because both Wingless and I helped lynch two scum while Exilon tried to stop it. Rereading you both in isolation.

[RedCoyote]

Oh, yeah, let's claim.

I'm

Michael Corleone

. I have a

2-shot jailkeeper

power (kind of like how Micheal "jailed" his father while he was in the hospital to prevent Sollozzo from shooting him). The first night I jailed FG (I mostly did FG instead of Kat because I thought if they were both scum then FG would be more likely to submit the kill, and I also kind of hoped we would have a Vig that would shoot Kat ). On the second night I didn't use my power. On the third night I jailed FG again because it would confirm whether or not he was scum if there were three scum (which it looks like there is). I knew FG was confirmed town yesterday, which is why I made this post. I still think it's probably pretty unlikely Wingless would have been so risky as to vote Antihero and Zaj at the times he did.

Exilon?

[RedCoyote]

I got to be honest, Exilon. Willie Cicci is not a name I even considered. I expected to see Connie or Clemenza or someone before seeing someone like that. I'm trying to think if Willie even has any lines in the movie. All I know is that he kills the head of the Barzini family, I think.

As far as flavor goes I'm noted as a "Corleone family member".

[RedCoyote]

Vote: Exilon

I hope this works...

[RedCoyote]

Thanks, everyone. I can't believe how on the money gandalf was towards the end, although I think there was some serious issues with the activity in this game.

Mod, I thought the writing was very well done and I enjoyed the theme very much. I feel almost bad because I don't think the game was done enough justice in the sense that it seemed to just move so quickly and the powers you put in place almost felt as though they had little importance. I guess they were important, but it was almost like we canceled out the town's power to an extent, with the exception of pacman's Antihero investigation. We got fairly lucky on the kills though, and something the Mod said in the QT was very true. He mentioned that although the town had soem inactive players that Zaj and Far_Cry weren't very active. Antihero helped that though.

I was very surprised that Michael Corleone wasn't used for the town, because that fake claim was really a godsend for us. Originally Antihero was going to claim it. If you see on the scum QT, we very much had a good strategy going into the third day. It was cut a bit short thanks to me and Wingless voting at the same time (which was definitely an accident). The reason I chose FG over Wingless/Exilon was because Exilon was the only one left who hadn't voted Antihero. On top of that, I didn't think he suspected me like FG or Wingless may have. Wingless had such a low profile that I thought he would be questioned by Exilon. I was also worried that FG would've been more partial to gandalf's argument than Wingless would have.

gg all

[RedCoyote]

http://www.quicktopic.com/45/H/JwVJumrQnuV

Scum QT, btw.