Mafia on Holy Orders (Game Over!)

[Plum]

Oh well then there you have it.

[Plum]

CKD has been around today and posted just now and I want to see a post in response to my stuff.

[curiouskarmadog]

what stuff?

my read on iece?...it was based on a.) the following of my vote, b.) the buddying up (when I wasnt that towny), c.) the vote off of moth (but he shifted the blame to a proxy vote)...and just a general gut read.

however, I am not feeling it today as much...


I also think the proxy vote is bullshit...take responsibility for your own vote.....it is easy to say later, "i was just following X"....

[Vi]

Vote Count LX

~ Mod as rules lawyer

Iecerint (L-3) ~ SocioPath, Furcolow
Haylen (L-3) ~ AGar, curiouskarmadog

pacman (L-4) ~ Plum

Not Voting:

Iecerint, pacman, Haylen, Chronopie

AGar 2 | Chronopie 0 | Furc 0 | Iece 0 | pacman 0 | Plum 0 | ckd 0 | Socio 0 PROD1 1 | Haylen 0

-A small glow surrounds Plum as of post 1889...

--With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Battery power:

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(62%)

[AGar]

EDIT: Just realised what happened with the Vi's PM. Whenever a person's inbox fills, it says in very small writing that they're role PM's are on hold until they sort it out. Sorry, so sorry, I didn't notice this. I did get a result on Iecerint. He targetted Furcolow. Confirm or deny?

Ambiguity. You never specified "my box got filled."

I assumed you weren't referring to yourself, as thus.

@peeps

Pardon me, but I'm not exactly keen on "pro-town uber alliances." Take a look at Open 239 (Ythan's C9++) to see why.

Haylen, I haven't been only pushing you based on Vezok.

Vezok wasn't a push for VI ness. It was a push because he was really scummy in his actions, as I highlighted.

You came into the spot I was most suspicious of. The claim smells of stewing bullshit to me, and your follow up doesn't help.

You say that there are 7 colors, but 8 letters. I didn't accuse you of that. I accused you of an inconsistency. You said that the letters were the color of the rainbow, but one color didn't match. Its not that your point wasn't clear. It's that I found a hole in your fabricated story.

You have had inconsistencies all over the place. That is what I have pursued you for. NOW you're resorting to AtE.

As plum pointed out, you've basically accused people who find you scummy of being scum because they find you scummy and misrepresented their points.

@CKD

The breadcrumb itself? Perfectly unimportant. The consistency of her story, especially when it's shrouded in suspicion? Completely and utterly pertinent and needing to be vetted completely.

[Iecerint]

a.) the following of my vote, b.) the buddying up (when I wasnt that towny), c.) the vote off of moth (but he shifted the blame to a proxy vote)

A. I had no reads I liked too much and trusted you.
B. I thought you were very towny.
C. Untrue. I unvoted before you did, because moth had just claimed some kind of PR or something and I unvoted to get it off of L-1. You unvoted after that, but then said you noticed something he'd done or something and reapplied pressure.

[pacman281292]

Sorry for being late. Post coming up right away.

[Iecerint]

Vote: SocioPath

[Plum]

Sorry for being late. Post coming up right away.

This had better be good.

Also, it occurs to me. Why did mothrax claim

Tracker

of all things? Granted he didn't show much proficiency at claiming, but really. Why not Doctor or something easier to get away with longer than a Day?

OR does the team have (someone with) a Tracking power available? I suggested that before, but this is, oddly enough, another piece of evidence supporting the plausibility of the suggestion.

AGar, no apology needed.

[Iecerint]

He flipped as a DARKENED Shadow Demon. Maybe that was because he'd been given some kind of PR (e.g. Tracker)?

[Plum]

That may be the case (but that says nothing about my thesis about Haylen's power). Or he may have gotten a something else. Hmmm.

[Iecerint]

Yes.

[Plum]

So Pacman, where's this post I've been hearing about???

[pacman281292]

@Plum: Patience please...

OK.
First, adressing Plum's questions:

FREE ANSWER QUESTIONS (THESE ARE

NOT

RHETORICAL):

1. Would mothrax say this if pacman was his scumbuddy, after Soc's soft counterclaim or whatever of mothrax? Explain using your own words.

The best thing we can do right now is all shut up,

don't

talk about anyone else, and speedlynch mothrax ASAP.

so you want to deprive town of more information?
At least pacman is being sensible and not just taking socrates for his word...

2. Friend (flipped Town) received information presumably from one of the !!!!!!! players. The information implied that Vezok lied about his Day 2 ability (indicated vezok/Haylen scum). Grave Robber is not similar to Tracker or Neighorizer (and yes, one-shot Neighborizer is the standard, not the variation, so). However, her Track of Iecerint was in fact accurate, as far as we know. Apply Occam's Razor to this problem and explain whether it more strongly imples Haylen-scum or Haylen-Town.

1. I can't find any correlation there, but I think it's mostly due to me standing on a biased PoV (the question is about mothrax and me, and I do know that I'm town).
2. Applying Occam's, I'd say this implies Haylen-scum more strongly. However, there's the fact that Friend's "holy communication" might have been sent by the evil "holy one". Nonetheless, I insist that the "grave-digger" ability would be almost impossible to play for a townie, but much easier to use in hands of scum.
The fact that she correctly tracked Iecerint leaves me with 4 choices: a) Haylen lied, but posesses psychic powers (likely scum), b) Haylen is scum and her scumteam does have a tracker/watcher to help her, c) Haylen is scum with Iecerint and d) Haylen did get the power as she described (which still wouldn't imply alignment IMO). a is obviously unlikely, and I think the other ones are perfectly possible.

My reread on Sebguer/curiouskarmadog:
Sebguer: He randomvoted, then started epictunneling Furcolow. Then, flake. What could I find here? Nothing. Maybe that he was pursuing an easy lynch on Furc, but I think that the info is way too meager to reach a conclussion.
So, I'd say null.
curiouskarmadog:
(I'm gonna split this one in 2 parts; his iso is way too long and I've got to leave soon).
ISO1: Starts his game with a catch-up post.

I think it somehow lacks analysis, and tunnels on easy-lynch vezo and PRed zwet, while letting other bizarre players (e.g. Furc) at large. Humm...

ISO2-5: Some spam bickering with Friend.

lol?

ISO6-7: Second part of catch-up. First insist on vezo's scumminess based off 4 posts on early D1 (wtf?), and keeps assuming Furc is town-VI. Followed by pinpointing mothrax's sheeping of a wagon that didn't actually make sense. Good catch.
However, this catch-up post is otherwise still full of IIoA, and many times focuses at frivolous happenings (like zwet getting his ability to speak back, or Furc being town at meta). The catch-up lacks lot of things, and seems like overhurried approaching the end. Not sure on what to think here...

Sorry, but I've got to go. Computer running out of batteries + it's 11:20PM here (I should be asleep). I'll complete the reread tomorrow.

[Furcolow]

That said I don't recall pacman posting a whole lot of substance recently. Urgh.

EBWOP: At my 1776 I do post some scumreads, but mostly based on skim-reads, and my former "official" scum reads, which are stated in post 1663.

Keep standing on your fence.

did you even read those posts? no? then don't come here with flaff and read.
stop lurking. if you actually do feel suspicious of someone, speak now or STFU forever.
dammit...

COME ON PLUM.
LEARN TO READ.

lol

[Furcolow]

I feel very comfortable doing this:

unvote: my neighbor
vote: haylen

[Haylen]

NOW you're resorting to AtE.

lolwhat? This is one of the few games I HAVEN'T got too emotional in as town.

Am I the only one who sees AGar's last post as a complete strawman?

Furcolow, wtf? Care to give any reasoning.

[Haylen]

I have a theory. If one of the !!!'s is scum and can also grant powers then they might have tried to frame Vezok with an ability that people would consider a scum one. That's the only way I can explain receiving this ability because no way was Vezok playing townie enough to receive one.

[pacman281292]

ISO6-7: Second part of catch-up. First insist on vezo's scumminess based off 4 posts on early D1 (wtf?), and keeps assuming Furc is town-VI. Followed by pinpointing mothrax's sheeping of a wagon that didn't actually make sense. Good catch.
However, this catch-up post is otherwise still full of IIoA, and many times focuses at frivolous happenings (like zwet getting his ability to speak back, or Furc being town at meta). The catch-up lacks lot of things, and seems like overhurried approaching the end. Not sure on what to think here...

Sorry, but I've got to go. Computer running out of batteries + it's 11:20PM here (I should be asleep). I'll complete the reread tomorrow.

Back to complete this.
ISO8: Suddenly flips around from vezoobvscum to vezoVItown due to meta.

????

ISO9-10: Jumps into the mothrax wagon for "not liking his play", flips again to vezoscum due to gut.

This post makes me think that you might have known mothrax was scum with certainity (by being scum yourself). Not sure, but that's the feel I get from this post. Also, the fact you keep shifting in your vezo read bugs me.

ISO11: A weird reply to a mothrax post. I does not compute.
ISO12-27: Starts by saying that he dislikes the mod speculation, then decided to make a (failed) test of the light/smoke mechanic.

This is active lurking. You can try and make the test, yeah, but you haven't contributed actual content since your catch-up. And you keep not being helpful.

ISO28-29: More mod outguessing, this time at the field of the !!!!!'s identity.

Again, no contribution aside from outguessing the mod.

ISO30-31: One-liners.
ISO32-34: First scolds me for attacking someone for unvoting me (

I wasn't attacking him for unvoting me, I was attacking him for the vote he made then, altough I don't remember details well

), then asks for claim. Then shifts his vote to me mindlessly after moth's failclaim, then unvotes, asking for reasons on his track.

This part is confusing. My feel is that he mindlessly shifts away after seeing moth claim, but suddenly changes his opinion, maybe after seeing how unfeasible moth's claim was. However, I'm not sure.

ISO35-37: Disagrees with mothrax's reasons to track AGar.

I don't know what to feel about this.

mothrax is lynched.
ISO38: Promises a reread after the D2 flips.

Which never hapens. lolwut?

ISO39-41: Some short replies to the ongoing speculations (namely battery speculation, and the idea of massclaim).

In posts 40-41, I see you pointing at me disimulatedly, first asking everyone's feeling about me after the moth flip, then saying "pacman wagon is better than Furc wagon". This feels a little like "testing the waters" for a wagon on me. Huh.

ISO42-43: Complains about Soc's chart.

Well, Soc's chart alone isn't of much use, indeed. However, it's useful to see tendencies easily. That's the point on making it IMO.

Promises a reread.
ISO44-46: Coming back from not-announced V/LA. Scolds Furc for proxying his vote to him.

And the reread?

ISO47: Votes Plum (

with no reason lol

), asks her a relatively pointless question IMO (

I think this is related to her tunneling on me but IDK

).
ISO48-49: Scolds Furc for his reasonless vote on Locke, then scolds Locke for his poor defense.

Well, if you see that the votes on Locke seem to be reasonless, then which defense do you expect from Locke?

ISO50: Hops on Locke's wagon.

Hypocrite. You scold Furc for hopping into Locke without reason, then you do the same. No, ISO49 wasn't enough reason, at least for me. Heh.

ISO51: Attacks Locke for his response to your ISO49.

Your response to this is IMO a misinterpretation of what Locke said. Locke's question is valid.

ISO52-56: Attacks vezo for his attack on Locke and (later) on him.

vezo's attack and attitude was poor and contradictory at that point. Then his question dodging was also scummy.
Then vezo flakes from the site. lulz.

ISO57: Answers Plum's question regarding his question in ISO47.

The reasoning there is somehow twisted, and I think it's meta-related. If it is, I don't quite see the point of the question in first place...

ISO58: One-liner. Agrees with massclaim.
ISO59-60: Wonders about whether Furc is VI or scum after AGar votes. Then, briefly mentions feeling uneasy of Iecerint.

I see both these statements as testing the waters. You had stated for long that you just felt Furc was a VI townie. then, you doubt after AGar votes him. Humm... Also, you later would start recklessly attacking Iecerint. This is the first time your slot mentions Iecerint the whole game.

ISO61-62: V/LA. Then, you hop for Iecerint.

The only time you mention Iecerint before this post is ISO59, and your statement is basically "testing the waters". Then, you vote him with no reason whatsoever, while you've been often attacking people for voting without reasons.
Lol.

Strong FoS: curiouskarmadog

ISO63-65: Some iffy one-liners.

More active lurking. Also, when Iec asks you why the (reason-less) vote you plain dodge the question.

ISO66-69: More mod speculation.

More active lurking.

ISO70:

This one will be somehow long, despite being about a one-liner. Well, it's just re-stating my answer to the question there.
Shortly before this post, I would make the first of my catch-up posts. There, I pointed out a post by Iecerint where I present some reason to think CKD might have OMGUSed him. Humm... where did it go?
...
Found it.

Relevant because Soc was all CKD IS OBVSCUM and I was like WELL I DUN THINK SO HERE IS WHY and he was like OK THAT MAKES SENSE ACTUALLY THX.

But since then CKD has been sorta getting crap past the radar.

It could be that I am mourning Soc.

I'll repeat the question to Iec here, as I think it went unnoticed (or I missed/forgot the answer).

@Iecerint: Please point out the post(s) where the interaction you mention at the quoted post do happen.

Iecerint pointed out this post. Soon after, CKD votes him all of a sudden. The feel I get from those posts is that, when Iec points out that Soc thought CKD was scum at certain point of the game, CKD might have somehow misread and counter-attacked with no reason. That was the feel I got there, altough it might be me being paranoid. Oh well.
I would like to see those posts, to see whether or not it's worth the point or not.

ISO71-75: Some speculation about Friend's Holy Message.

HEY, WHAT HAPPENED TO THE CATCH-UP?

ISO76: Finally states some (very poor) reasons to think Iec is scum. It is: Iec is buddying with him.

I asked you where did such thing happen. You never replied.

ISO77: One-liner.

I don't get what you ask there.

ISO78-79: Speculation about the names of the Holy Ones.

Yeah, I think it had been stated by there that if we guessed the holy ones names we would get certain king of advantage. However, it's more active lurking. You've lurked through the whole extended D4 by keeping almost all of your posting dedicated to dynamocs speculating. WAKE UP!

ISO80-81: More one-liners.

I don't understand what is he addressing there.

ISO82-83: Dodges my question by saying "Iec's buddying with me is OBV".

If I asked you it was because I hadn't seen it. If you do truly feel this, point out where.

Then questions me for not voting.
ISO84-86. Asks for explanation to the M=W lynch.

Do I need to say the trouble with this post or not?

ISO87: Listen me! I think Iec is scum!

Answer my question!

ISO88-91: Disagrees against the proposal of posting the town reads. Proposes putting scum reads better.

Well, why don't you put yours (aside from "HEY GUYZ IEC IS SCUM LOLOLOL")?

ISO92: Confirms vote on Iecerint.

This is a standard tell. I know I just read it somewhere yesterday. Gotta read the wiki...

ISO93-94: Some bickering with Furc, first about his vote then about Sebguer's suspicion.
ISO95:

I'll brief this post in 10 words. "Hey, guess what? I have no actual reason to vote Iecerint, so vote him!"
Wait, those were 14 words. W/e. You get the point don't you?

ISO96-97: Reaffirms the point of ISO 95.

The vote on Iec is baseless. You say that "hey, all votes do have gut on them!" True, but false; many votes have a little bit of gut aside from actual reasons to vote. Not a (very) little bit of reasons aside from gut. Your vote has no floor, and you've just found yourself in such a dead end after being questioned for reasons that you're forced to resort to "gut". lol.

ISO98-99: Asks Furc for reasons on his Haylen vote (

*DANGER hypocrisy alert DANGER*

), then asks Friend why does he think Furc is town.

This post looks fishy, but I'm not sure why. Humm...

...
I'm tired right now, and still do have almost another hundred posts to adress. However, CKD has been active lurking for most of the game, often trying to look active by talking about the mechanics on the game. His vote on Iec was basically BS, his votes are often reasonless, and he acts hypocriticaly against non-reasoned votes.
So, I've decided to

Vote: curiouskarmadog.

I'm finishing the reread tonight.

[curiouskarmadog]

lol, did anyone think that pac's iso would end in anything else BUT my vote?

that is the worst tunnel vision I have ever seen(and I have seen a lot of games).....if ask pac, EVERYONE OF MY POSTS ARE SCUMMY..

example of this, you say i am active lurking, yet completely overlook Plum and Chrono....if you compare our posts, you would see that I have provided not only more content and posts, but actual stances....I am not saying that I think the two are scum (maybe scummy), but you completely ignore that....every post you commented on, you found a reason I was scummy...

I dont think you are scum (again you were the counter wagon to moth), but you really need to open your eyes...

here is some insight into your future..

lets says the town/remaining scum reads your post and says..."hey, pac has got a point, lets lynch CKD"..I am lynched...you then find out I am town...your only input today is your fucking tunnel visioned post that took MOST OF THE DAY to do...

if you think i am scum..fine, keep your vote on me (though I have a feeling your tunnel vision foolishness is going to hurt you later)

but I would like your stances on everyone else today too...a sentence or two will be fine, but, I want to hear it.

[curiouskarmadog]

also pac, one more question, what are your thoughts on the lynch yesterday? good lynch? why or why not? (yes, i know obviously a town lynch is bad, but what information was there any info that came of it?) Also what about the counter wagon, and the speed of it today?..thoughts?

I guess that wasnt one question, but I think your stances on these items are important to have today versus tomorrow...dont you agree?

[pacman281292]

lol, did anyone think that pac's iso would end in anything else BUT my vote?

that is the worst tunnel vision I have ever seen(and I have seen a lot of games).....if ask pac, EVERYONE OF MY POSTS ARE SCUMMY..

If you think I'm wrong, go ahead and defend yourself from the accusations. However, try to do it on a better formatting than mine, otherwise you might end up creating a wallpost worse than mine

example of this, you say i am active lurking, yet completely overlook Plum and Chrono....if you compare our posts, you would see that I have provided not only more content and posts, but actual stances....I am not saying that I think the two are scum (maybe scummy), but you completely ignore that....every post you commented on, you found a reason I was scummy...

Don't proxy the active lurking accusations towards Plum/Chronopie. Yeah, they are active lurking as well. However, this post was dedicated to your ISO, not to theirs.
Also, the fact they have taken almost no instance doesn't mean you're clear; if your instances are scummy themselves then you've got no point.

I dont think you are scum (again you were the counter wagon to moth), but you really need to open your eyes...

Huh?

here is some insight into your future..

lets says the town/remaining scum reads your post and says..."hey, pac has got a point, lets lynch CKD"..I am lynched...you then find out I am town...your only input today is your fucking tunnel visioned post that took MOST OF THE DAY to do... I can point out to you where have I put my input

if you think i am scum..fine, keep your vote on me (though I have a feeling your tunnel vision foolishness is going to hurt you later)

This whole "insight" is AtE. You try to (somehow) make me feel uneasy on attacking you "as it would have been the only input I did D5". Which is false. First, I've already posted something. Second, a case on you isn't all what I plan on posting D5. Duh.
Also, point out the input you claim having done up to that point. I'm not done with the reread.
Second part is straightforward AtE. Not scummy, but rather worthless.

but I would like your stances on everyone else today too...a sentence or two will be fine, but, I want to hear it.

Coming up tonight, maybe tomorrow.

also pac, one more question, what are your thoughts on the lynch yesterday? good lynch? why or why not? (yes, i know obviously a town lynch is bad, but what information was there any info that came of it?) Also what about the counter wagon, and the speed of it today?..thoughts?

I guess that wasnt one question, but I think your stances on these items are important to have today versus tomorrow...dont you agree?

I'm answering this question tonight as well. I'm currently at the university, so I don't have much time.

[curiouskarmadog]

Pac, you attack EVERY FUCKING LINE...that is tunnel vision, shit some of those lines I am defending a rewagon on you....and I am not going to go back and defend 90+ posts...if you have a case with 3-4 bullets, that is a place to start (to "defend")...I think you are really misguided....

looking forward to your other posts....you must really think I am scum ( you must have put an hour or more into that)...but you are just really off and really wasted your time.

curious, while typing that, did you think you were going to vote me at the end or were you taking each post for what it was?

[Furcolow]

damn, pacman
i dont even want to read all that

[Iecerint]

@Iecerint: Please point out the post(s) where the interaction you mention at the quoted post do happen.

I responded to that in these posts:

Here
Here
Here