Open 250 - Pie E7 Mark II

[Vi]

*is here*

Vote: SaintKerrigan

for :aggressivemindgames:

[Vi]

I'm scum, btw. Lynch me nao and I won't kill you tonight!

...wait, that came out wrong.

Yeah, you didn't tell us your partner

my god...

That's only 40% of it. Now just add the "oh" and the "you suck" and you too can play Mafia like a professional!

/confirm
Vote:VP Baltar

You're doing it wrong; you're supposed to BUDDY to VPB

Vote: VP Baltar

We are NOT amused.

Fixed.

On the plus side we don't have to worry about making something from nothing this time around.~

[Vi]

Vote: VP Baltar

We find his reaction to my comment interesting.

Do elaborate. I'm finding this pre-game aggression quite

amusing

.

[Vi]

@Vi - my emoticon speak is a little rusty. words please.

"Amusing" is an odd choice of wording there.

[Vi]

Mod note: You guys realize game has not begun yet, right? lol

SILENCE. YOU ARE AT OUR MERCY.

I'm going to agree with sottyrulez

because the roles weren't actually changed from last time

on this one.

You come in right away and make things serious by questioning us about the statement without adding any input of your own. It was really out of place and immediately tweaked our scumdar. Especially since you tried to make it out like we were the pregame aggressor.

This is true. It reminds me of what I did last game

the difference being that I insist that when I did it it wasn't an alignment tell

, except that it came sandwiched between obvious joke votes

before the game started

. I mean, yes, we have our roles, but it was the middle of obvious-injokey-screwing-around time and the complete lack of funny business stands out.

I really should stop these strikeouts before they get me in trouble. As it stands, I would vote you but then you would be at risk of being hammered on Page 2

before the game begins

. Which would keep St.Kerrigan playing indefinitely as I said but etc.

[Vi]

@Vi - I know you two are in cahoots! But seriously, did you read Sotty's SK post as an obv. joke? If so, what gave you that impression? Context alone?

I didn't read it as an obvjoke (although it could be seen that way; add a to the end and it changes the meaning).

...this may not be as clear-cut as I had thought. <.<

[Vi]

HEY

HEY SOTTY

HEY ZACH

HEY VPB

Why don't we get over ourselves and form an AwesomeTownBloc^TM? I don't really think either of you are scum as of this extremely late point in this game, and there are only a few other players left. (Besides, it's how I wanted the first game to play out )

[Vi]

vi is quite obviously town this game...I got your meta bud....I know you better than you know yourself....if I could have naked time with your meta, your meta wouldnt laugh at my small penis because we got to know each other on a deeper level at first. Then, when i knocked your meta up, it wouldnt take me to court for child support, because your meta knows...this bird cant be caged...its got to fly.

This site never fails to creep me out sometimes.

But yes, I'm playing differently this game for a reason.~

[Vi]

hmmm.....but no comment on my different play style?

I dont recall being so jokey last time around.

...I can't really tell a difference tbqh. You didn't have a reason to be jokey last time because you were spending all your time gambiting, hiding behind a flame shield, or voting TERRIBLY WRONG in LyLo.

[Vi]

I don't......




...really care for your aggressiveness in reply to what was really a simple question. It has made me highly wary of you at this point, which I don't like the feeling of because I feel like I should be able to read either of you the easiest out of the entire player list. You came across as mildly scummy in our little tiff. That being said, I'd like to here from the entire playerlist before I get too crazy with accusations. We're almost to page 3!

Quadruple vote: St.Kerrigan

...that's not going to work, is it.

@Mod: Don't count that vote, it's a joke

[Vi]

@ Vi: Why can't I be in the Town Power Bloc?

Blatant nepotism.
I think VPB looks Townier from the exchange, but if they can't play nicely I guess we can't play at all.

think of a word...rhymes with "fuck face"

I get the impression that you didn't really mean anything outside the quotes here.

ckd, what was the point in asking St.K about a vote that you

unmistakably knew

was a joke?

Vote: curiouskarmadog

(L-3)

[Vi]

Quite the opposite, the more claims we have D1 the

less broken the game is for Town

the more likely scum is to have a fair chance at endgame.

I didn't read anything about Equinox L-1ing ckd and demanding a claim (in fact Equinox seemed dismally surprised at the claim). I skimmed like that whole page and posted in five minutes, and don't have the time NOW to reread (maybe; I have to see if I need to leave for school now or not). So etc.

[Vi]

All right, I'm here so I can post.

The L-1 attack on Equinox doesn't make sense. I mean, I L-1'd St.K in the previous game and didn't expect a claim (and St.K rightfully didn't give one).
I'm not really so sold on Eek! the Nox's reasons for voting ckd so much though. The meta argument is just another way of saying that he sidestepped VPB vs. STR. Appealing to Scummies is automatic credibility loss, although I didn't consider that ckd could be buddying to me (but then that's the point of buddying).

I don't agree with Equinox that St.K is null at this point; I have a small Town read in that direction.

For as much bad as there is in ckd's claimpost, he does raise a good point in Equinox evidently thinking I'm Town. It's not explicitly stated anywhere and I'm sure semantically Equinox could make an argument that ckd buddying to me doesn't imply that I'm necessarily Town if ckd is scum, but I'm preeeeetty sure that was the meaning there.

ckd went to great lengths to WIFOM his claim up, and did a good job of it. I think it's more likely that ckd is Town though, although that was a harder decision to make than it had to be.

The argument that Equinox backed down after a claim is absolutely worthless for the following reasons.
*EQUINOX DIDN'T ASK FOR ONE. I've had a bit of a rush of pointing out obvious things these days and it's bringing me into the SCREAMING DEATH CLUB in spite of me actually hating that style of play, but THIS IS ON THE PAGE.
**Side note: Being at L-1 doesn't mean you need to claim immediately. With a player list like this, you should expect this to be common knowledge. With a player list like this you should be able to put people at L-1 and not have people do amazingly stupid things. Is this wishful thinking from me? Evidently,

yes!

a;sfjksdfklsdf
*If you believe a claim, you should unvote. Why stick with voting Town?
*Equinox didn't actually unvote right after the claim. She stuck with it for a post.

So yes, VPB's vote on Equinox is not up to snuff, although I'm fine with the second reason about the original vote post.

sottyrulez voting Equinox makes me RAGE but everything else after it looks so different from how they posted in the previous game that it's hard for me to call it scummy.

You don't get to tell us to get over ourselves and then say you're unsettled when we actually do. This leaves me thinking that you wanted to play voice of reason and that you actually wanted us to keep fighting to the death for the next 10 pages.

VP is town btw. He's dead on in pointing out the scum benefit to rolefishing in placing a lynch -1 vote in the situation that Equinox did, and it was something he could have easily done himself if he was scum. It's ridiculous that you're trying to make him out to look scummy for this when it's quite clear it's the most pro-town thing he has done all game.

I asked for you to stop a ways before you actually did. Maybe it's because I didn't think either of you were scum in the first place, but the whole argument seems ridiculous and unnecessary to me and the ending doesn't seem organic. All of the stuff you posted afterward is stuff that occurred after you flopped on him.

@Vi (tempban LOL) - so just for the record, you think that running players up to a claim and then just willy nilly abandoning it is good play? In this setup?

This is misrepresenting what I said SO MUCH. THERE IS NOTHING IN EQUIyou know why don't you just read it earlier in my post; it's in all caps there too and I'm fairly positive I've said it before.

So you are either agreeing with me (and find me scummy for it) or you want to make sure the scum have a fair shot... While I agree that this setup is probably town favoring (waits for Zach to disagree), I don't think we should be helping balance it for the scum.

Oh yes I would much rather have a fair figh

are you seriously trying to say I'm sporting here?

--stuff I've already answered--
If Equinox is town, then s/he is essentially handing the game on a platter to the scum by playing so erratically. I would like you to explain how any of this is good for town.

If Equinox is Town, then while prompting a claim wouldn't be good for Town

she's still Town

.

I don't have a problem with clearing based on ckd's tone as a reason, objectively speaking. Subjectively speaking I don't buy it so much myself, but I can see how Equinox could.

----

Conclusion.
I'm not voting Equinox. Get over yourself.
I'm not voting sottyrulez, admittedly based largely on "tone".
I would vote VP Baltar but I have the sneaking suspicion that he's actually being serious.

It's not out of the question that all of the above are Town. The only way that both scum are in this group is if it's sottyrulez+VP Baltar but I don't think that's a possibility worth pursuing at this juncture.

So IMO I have two options.
*Keep my vote on ckd and call for a damage control lynch.
*Vote for someone I think is scum - if it doesn't work, Town is in an even worse position than before; if it does work I think it cancels out the bad of the premature claim (I never finished the analysis but I got far enough to see that scum

really

don't want to get lynched D1).

I'll bet on the second option.

Unvote: curiouskarmadog

Vote: nopointactingup

(L-2)
Yes I know nonparticipant vote blah blah but right now I have Townish vibes from most everyone else.

[Vi]

Quite the opposite, the more claims we have D1 the

less broken the game is for Town

the more likely scum is to have a fair chance at endgame.

It is not town's job to give the scum a fair chance.

Scummy.

I was going to just say to your whole post that my opinion has already been given on everything you said, but this is so stupid that I have to call you out for being stupid. Sorry*.

Come on man. This is silly, you put someone at lynch-1 what do you think happens next? Site meta is to get a claim if someone wants to hammer. If Equinox didn't want one, she shouldn't have voted for CKD. End of story.

Wait, so everyone on this site to include a "mouthwatering" elite player list is also stupid? Good to know.

This is the biggest point of contention we have. There is no reason, NONE to unvote a VT claim. Even more so in this kind of set up, the tone reasoning is a weak excuse.

Without taking the setup into account, I disagree and always have.
In this particular setup, you actually have a point for reasons mentioned before.

Next question. If there is no reason, NONE to unvote a VT claim, why are we not lynching (more specifically, you not voting) ckd? Suppose you're wrong about Equinox and we lynch her. Now we have a dead Townie of some kind AND a claimed Vanilla lying around, and we're in an even worse situation. At least with lynching ckd we don't have any more claims. With that in mind, face it, you didn't "pretty much HAVE to vote Equinox" at all.

Yes I know this flies completely in the face of my own vote, but then I'm using your premises for this question, not mine.

Actually let's do this.

Unvote: nopointactingup
Vote: sottyrulez

(L-3)

You're reaching for ways to accuse me at this point, especially with that first point.

Equinox unvotes because of tone? Really? Horrible, horrible, horrible.

This is almost ALWAYS the reason people unvote VT claims. Typical, typical, typical.

*this word is not actually meaningful

[Vi]

Vi white-knighting me is O_O. Giving me flashbacks to sottyrulez's accusation of "voice of reason" earlier.

I defend who I believe is right. I think you'll also find that I change my mind quickly and without warning.

[Vi]

sotty's points are all garbage that I've swatted down already. But this is the best part.

We would lynch a VT without hesitation and you wouldn't.

How does that make us scum?

You're not lynching a VT without hesitation

right now

. In fact, it's like you

backed down

from a VT claim instead of pushing it like "welp, end of day right there". HMM.

Oh and I'm clearly not scumhunting because I'm not agreeing with sottyrulez. After all, scumhunting would instead be voting Equinox or ckd because they said so or because lolretardedE7setup respectively. Yeah, perfect sense.

Vi: Why mention that you change your mind "quickly and without warning"? Are you setting up 180s?

It's. How. I. Play. (as Town) And you didn't know that before.

Also... you stated in 104 that you didn't agree with my reason for voting CKD, and evidently you agree with my reason for unvoting CKD; however, your conclusion is that I'm town. Why?

Bad logic != scum. (I would know )

I'm seriously having a cow right now about this game.

[Vi]

COMPLETELY IGNORED CRUCIAL PARTS OF POST.

Would you rather I go down the line and say that your accusation based on funny wording of what happens with claims is still bad the second time around, that I think it's ludicrous to think that Equinox necessarily tried to force a claim from ckd (and if she was, why isn't she voting someone else to repeat the cycle?), and I have to thank you for making me look again at this--

We're not lynching/voting CKD because the wagon died. Equinox played a large role in that, you know this. We had absolutely no intention of unvoting CKD before that. Equinox played a significant role in killing the bandwagon and she's scummy for it.

We are not voting for anyone other that CKD or Equinox. Yes it will be disastrous if both CKD and Equinox turn out to be town,

but right now we think Equinox has a higher chance of being scum than CKD.

It comes down to, should we make a strategic move or a move that most likely catches scum? In this situation it is not an easy choice at all. If we all come together and decide to lynch CKD, then we will switch votes and do it.

Penn and Teller do not approve of the bolded! Lynching ckd isn't a matter of whether he's scum, it's a matter of preventing further claims! I mean really I could see your point if your reason for voting Equinox wasn't trash, but that's not the case.

Or maybe it's how I'm allegedly scummy for defending someone you think is scummy when I know you know I do that rather frequently, or mislabeling my vote for you, or how your attack on Equinox unvoting ckd seems to be based on "tone".

---

NEW PLAN.
I'd like to check the feasibility of an AwesomeTownBloc^TM consisting of myself, Equinox, and curiouskarmadog. What I have in mind will probably not work unless we all agree that we are Town and are willing to trust each other. You're welcome to refuse and explain why if you're not comfortable with it, but I wouldn't ask you to consider it without some worthwhile reason.

[Vi]

In other news Vi continues to make us

In the unlikely event that you're Town in this game, I know what my next avvy is going to be.

In unrelated news this thread needs more Druglord Baltar.

[Vi]

My wallpost brings all the boys to the yard

but my wallpost is better than yours.
On a related note, I really

didn't

need the mental picture of us being incestuous. >_>

Oh, please. It was within a couple of hours and ckd really didn't respond to her points. She said herself her points were trumped by his tone. I'm not saying that's not possible, just not something I'm going to take on scout's honor.

It's the sort of thing I would do. Granted, I act psychotic, but still.

Would you say you're moo-derately enraged?

Yes actually. Luckily (or unluckily) moo-derately is the highest setting I get to on the RAGE meter, or at least it's the highest one I know of.

I feel so betrayed. But seriously, AwesomeTownBloc's work much better when you have solid reads. Are you quite confident in your reads already? If not, your eagerness to chain yourself to people kinda bugs me.

In a sense, yes, I'm quite confident in my reads. I'm fairly positive Equinox is Town, and right now I'm willing to buy that ckd is the same kind of Townie he was last game.

I know I've seen ckd around recently though.

[Vi]

I'd like to check the feasibility of an AwesomeTownBloc^TM consisting of myself, Equinox, and curiouskarmadog.

A semi-repeat of VP Baltar's question but going in a different direction: Are you more confident in your reads of CKD and me than, say, VP Baltar? Why?

Given where VPB and sottyrulez were at the time I asked that question, yes. After VPB's last post... probably. I didn't expect VP Baltar to disagree with sottyrulez given that they were previously on the same ridiculous stance.

What are your reads on your incestuous brothers and sisters so far?

[Vi]

I like how I'm apparently scum and a viable lynch candidate solely through connection to someone who hasn't flipped.

Leaving the wagon because you think someone is scum is a better cause, but again, the strategy and logistics of it ANGER me, because that claimed vanilla is very likely ALWAYS going to be there if you don't lynch them.

And if that claimed Vanilla is Town, that's not necessarily a bad thing.

How about it? Is ckd more likely Town? (objectively, not "more likely Town THAN someone else")

[Vi]

I like how I'm apparently scum and a viable lynch candidate solely through connection to someone who hasn't flipped.

There's a difference between finding your play scummy and wanting to lynch you today.

Also, there's nothing stopping us from going back to CKD, the only real reasons not to lynch him today is having a strong scum read on someone else, (Equinox, and even Vi.)

ok

[Vi]

@Vi - you seem rather on edge this game and I'm trying to determine why that is. Is the state of the game that frustrating to you or are there external factors (RL etc.) that are aggravating you?

Yesterday it was external factors AND the state of the game.
Right now it's actually neither because I think I can turn this scenario into something positive.

It doesn't feel viable that ViTown would go so far out of her way like this for Equinox(unknown).

What makes you think Equinox is (unknown) IMO?
In addition, I have some light reading material that details that yes, I

would

do that kind of thing. (tealdeer I went against the popular lynch, got put on a ton of scumlists for it, and behold! I got scumone else lynched and the "popular lynch" turned out to be Town!)

I see St.K on this site. o.o

[Vi]

I'm assuming everyone is cooler than me and playing Marathon games. That's three people I've seen around the site now.

[Vi]

Still waiting on St.K and ckd.

Unofficial Vote Count

Equinox 2 - sottyrulez, nopointactingup
sottyrulez 2 - Vi, VP Baltar

Not voting: SaintKerrigan, Equinox, curiouskarmadog

Deadline is a long way from now.

[Vi]

When the claim came, Zach said to me “suspect the first person to unvote” and I agreed. Unvoting a VT claim at this kind of a game is horrible play.

ITT people don't think like you.

• Equinox unvotes CKD quickly based on “tone”

We have established this is an “elite” player list several times. None of us are stupid even if we want to throw that name around now and then. The fact is Equinox put CKD at lynch -1.

Site meta dictates, that if you don't want a claim or a lynch DON'T PUT SOMEONE AT LYNCH -1.

I know this, Vi knows this, Equinox knows this.

Yet we're an "elite" player list. One would think we're not sheep, considering that site meta doesn't seem to have any idea WHY people are supposed to claim at L-1. (Hint: It's not supposed to be automatic)

It's worth saying that the last person who used the "oops vanilla claim, must lynch" argument on me was a scum IC, link providable upon request.

Now, I'm not the setup expert (geek) here like some of you are but Zach starting quoting math at me, something like if CKD's claim is true and he isn't lynched the power roles only have a 33% chance of doing some good. I'll let him come in her and set the math right once he wakes up. But basically it is bad.

I've already disagreed with Zach's math before but I agree that it's bad. But more on that later.

This was Zach's idea. We were at odds surrounding Vi. Zach wasn't really liking her suggestion of the voting bloc and I thought she was looking townie enough. My argument was we can go along with her for now and if she starts being scummy, change our minds.

Anyway, we wait. Still stewing over the claim and unvote ordeal. VP had already said much of what we wanted to say. In fact he said it such away we both at near the same time proclaimed him town. His confusion, weariness and general posting since all this has happened has all but convinced me of that. We basically disagree with everything Vi posts in 97. Her attempt to dirty VP is ridiculous and she proclaims Equinox town

for no reason

Vi knows the set up. She knows how this works and yet no bad words for Equinox at all in her first reaction post.

That first reaction post was a five-minute skim. The more complete second one had bad words for Equinox.

I have reasons for calling Equinox Town, and I've elaborated on them at considerable length.
Another sign that we're not together is that Equinox seems just as bewildered at my defense of her as everyone else.

I didn't read anything about Equinox L-1ing ckd and demanding a claim (in fact Equinox seemed dismally surprised at the claim). I skimmed like that whole page and posted in five minutes, and don't have the time NOW to reread (maybe; I have to see if I need to leave for school now or not). So etc.

^Weak sauce. This allows her to distance herself slightly and retool after we proclaimed her scummy and VP was looking wearily in her direction.

It's factually correct. Without any time to read into motivations it's what I had to work with.

Her follow up post in 104 is basically, omg everyone looks townie so I will vote a lurker! Please.

Laying out unnecessary omgs to strawman people is MY turf. Back off.

npau was and to a fair degree IS someone I didn't have a nice read on.

In our post 98 we laid out the whole not unvoting a VT and Vi skims over than for now, deciding to generally address it rather than all out attack us. It feels like she is trying to pacify us by not “exploding” on us.

This is important because of what happens next.

• We respond still calling Vi and Equinox scummy

This doesn't make Vi happy. She goes from not agreeing with us but we are still townie, to voting us. She asks us why we unvoted CKD despite us being VERY CLEAR in post 98 as to why. This was all information that was already out there and Vi chose to call us town anyway.

It wasn't until we made it abundantly clear that we were gunning for her as well did she decide to flip the script and pull the switch on us to make us look bad. If this was a geniune thought process, why not question it

right away?

Why wait? Why sit on it?

It's not townie motivation.

• Vi goes on all out attack

This wouldn't be so bad if she hadn't already called us town for stating these opinions. Nothing changed form us from when we reacted to CKD's claim and Equinox's unvote, yet Vi is coming for us.

Why the change of heart? Probably because we won't back down.

(...)

Either you believe our original post 98 or you don't. It's that simple. Vi seemed to believe it.

I didn't agree with what you actually said to begin with. My quote below.

sottyrulez voting Equinox makes me RAGE but everything else after it looks so different from how they posted in the previous game that it's hard for me to call it scummy.

(...)

I'm not voting sottyrulez, admittedly based largely on "tone".

And that's fine, Townies can be wrong to varying degrees of violence. Then you pushed a case of absolute crap on me almost entirely as an extension of being scum with Equinox.

Oh it's PERSONAL now.

• Vi continues to say we should still be voting CKD as a way to discredit us

For some reason Vi is desperate for us to be voting CKD. Never mind the fact we have a bigger read on other people. She doesn't even attempt to take our scum hunting under consideration. The case on Equinox

isn't

this one point. Vi is trying to say it is.

In our eyes Equinox deflated the CKD wagon.
We explained why this was scummy and why we switched.
Vi continues to repeat this argument until it takes hold.

It's hard for me to take your "scum hunting under consideration" when your points beyond the basic theory of lynching the first Vanilla claim you see are all bogus.
It's also hard for me to buy that Equinox "deflated" the wagon like she was the only person on it.
Last, I'm not desperate for you to vote ckd so much as I'm critical of the reasons you're not doing so.

Vi decides to ignore our actual case on Equinox and instead does nothing but hammers on the CKD point. The easiest part of the argument to beat.

I'm pretty sure I've talked about how I believe Equinox is Town. You don't buy it and I doubt you're listening. Impasse.

tealdeer Sotty7 is still pushing some kind of crap; if you skimmed her last post you can skim this one too

---

We still need more St.K and ckd in here.

[Vi]

I didn't read anything about Equinox L-1ing ckd and demanding a claim (in fact Equinox seemed dismally surprised at the claim). I skimmed like that whole page and posted in five minutes, and don't have the time NOW to reread (maybe; I have to see if I need to leave for school now or not). So etc.

^Weak sauce. This allows her to distance herself slightly and retool after we proclaimed her scummy and VP was looking wearily in her direction.

Actually I'm not really sure how this logic is supposed to work in the first place. I don't see any potential for distancing in this quote (unless I was factually incorrect, which I wasn't) and I certainly didn't take any opportunity to jump ship.

[Vi]

Any time someone says "I only skimmed" they are attempting to distance from what they posted. In a "I only skimmed and may have missed important things" kinda way.

...I did only skim. I didn't get a choice in the matter. No important things were pointed out, so!

Any time you want to break down, point by point why us not voting CKD is a scum tell in light of all that has happened in this thread I'm willing to listen. You haven't done this.

*Lynching the first claim, if Vanilla, is a good idea in this setup. Nobody disputes this, but you've been quite vocal about it.
*ckd made the first claim and it was Vanilla.
**BRANCH: ckd made his claim without prompting, leading to blaming the person who put him at L-1. Later.
*You did not push for his lynch, but instead tried to lynch someone else for reasons that are by and large

bad

(see branch). CONTRADICTION.

**RETURNING TO BRANCH: ckd made his claim without prompting, leading to blaming the person who put him at L-1.
**As has been mentioned before, it's actually quite dubious that Equinox actually wanted a claim from ckd.
***Claims are meant to be LAST RESORTS, as in one should only claim if they think it will save them from a lynch. This rule is older than the E7 setup. Thus, people should only be asked to claim by people who are interested in laying a hammer and should only claim if they think it will save them.
**You claim that site meta says otherwise; that claiming is a natural part of being put at L-1. Disregarding how strategically disadvantageous that is, you also assume that everyone thinks and acts in this way. This is a major part of your case, and also wrong.
**SEPARATE PART OF CASE: Equinox backed down from her L-1 vote due to thinking ckd was Townish on "tone".
**But you did too! Well, minus the L-1 vote part. You even said that the claim was the only major reason you had for wanting to lynch ckd. Why? It's not like ckd has done anything textbook-better since his claim, so it must be something else, like his "tone" perhaps.
**But wait, you're calling that reasoning invalid since you're pursuing Equinox for it. CONTRADICTION.

***Vi called you on basically all of this. OMG scum.
***Vi defended Equinox vigorously based on all of this. OMG scumpartners.
***Vi is the sort of raving lunatic psycho who would actually do that sort of thing and has provided a game for meta in case either Zachrulez or Sotty7 somehow hasn't played like three or four games with me. OMG raving luna--wait, I'm the one who said that.
***Vi is evidently not scumhunting in spite of saying these things

ad nauseum

. OMG scum trying to obfuscate things.
***Vi is frankly tired of listening to you and wouldn't be asking for others to show up if Vi wanted to lynch you RIGHT NOW. OMG editorial. But in all seriousness, I'm less sold on you-scum as much as you-deadwrong.

Anything missing?

[Vi]

But in all seriousness, I'm less sold on you-scum as much as you-deadwrong.

Would I be correct in assuming that you have a town read on sottyrulez, then? If that is the case, why are we still arguing over this?

It's plausible that they could be Town

in spite of the extreme badness

of their case on you/me.

I

'

m

n

o

t

t

h

a

t

s

h

o

r

t

-

s

i

g

h

t

e

d

.

The colors and spectacles are fun and everything but the most interesting thing (IMO) in this argument is right here.

I need St.K's input to figure out the likeliest scum team.

I would actually like some elaboration here.

Cut--

No because I look for scum teams, not solely scum. If St.K looks scummy for example, it would further disprove my case against Equi/CKD.

Calling the team is fun! but has a nasty tendency to not work.
And... wait.

No because I look for scum teams, not solely scum. If St.K looks scummy for example, it would

further

disprove my case against Equi/CKD.

Guys, you do realize that the more walls of text you post, the longer it's going to take me to parse and digest them, and the longer it's going to take for me to actually post what I think about all of them, right?

You only need to read my posts.
I just summarized the sottyrulez vs. me argument and Equinox vs. npau is easy to fill in given npau's original vote post and my defense of Equinox.

[Vi]

But in all seriousness, I'm less sold on you-scum as much as you-deadwrong.

Would I be correct in assuming that you have a town read on sottyrulez, then? If that is the case, why are we still arguing over this?

It's plausible that they could be Town

in spite of the extreme badness

of their case on you/me.

I

'

m

n

o

t

t

h

a

t

s

h

o

r

t

-

s

i

g

h

t

e

d

.

My question was your stance regarding sottyrulez. "It's plausible that they could be town" doesn't cut it. Are they or are they not? Why is your vote still on sottyrulez?

I'm in the process of finding out. My vote is still on sottyrulez for that reason.

Didn't I say I agree with some of what Equinox is saying? I have no qualm with continuing my tunneling mode like the last game if you insist.

You mean you're not tunneling now? What do you think of your own cases on ckd/Equinox?

[Vi]

SaintKerrigan's catchup post is bad, and not just because I got the short end of the opinion poll. The vote comes from nowhere and is placed on the person on the

other

side of who SK evidently thinks is most likely scum (Equinox based on pinging the scumdar and the quote of Let's Attack Vi Over Defending Equinox again), the wall is half whining and griping and leads in no direction, and considering I neatly laid out sr vs. Vi I was hoping for at least some idea of why I didn't come out ahead. Oddly, the whining and griping is the big tip-off, because whiny fluffy catch-up posts are now two for two in my experience for being made by scum.

I'm bank on it.

Unvote: sottyrulez
Vote: SaintKerrigan

(L-3)

omg, seriously..colors now too?....

just checking in...hoping for tomorrow for this game.

No. Opinions. Now.

@Equinox: If you've seen Umineko, you're the only one

[Vi]

@Equinox: If you've seen Umineko, you're the only one

<===

As I said...
The "red truth" part clicked when I read your post, so I brought it up.

Also, no comments on NPAU?

I have to admit this is the first time I've seen someone say that their own case has flaws and still continue with it. I don't know what to do with it.

Yet.

Yes. Else I'd unvote you asap.

What would you do then?

[Vi]

I'm in the process of finding out. My vote is still on sottyrulez for that reason.

If you're simply unsure of where else to put your vote, then just say so. I don't really feel like you were trying to find out that much about sottyrulez as you were trying to prove that you were right. Your change of vote without them posting seems to confirm this theory. Why not call it what it is?

While I thank you for your consideration, to everyone else (particularly Equinox at the time) that's an opening to say I was waffling.

SaintKerrigan's vote really doesn't surprise me at all. I stand by what I said, with the added note that taking patterns I've seen before and applying them to new situations is called "learning". That and I kind of expected more ideas about suspects than just the one person attacking you.

Cut by sottyrulez - iamausername-ICscum here. I completely forgot Sotty7 replaced into that game. (Then again, I'd like to forget ALL of my Newbie games.) Also, a very similar when-to-claim argument occurred in this game too ("I want you to claim" "Townie" "Ok" "Why didn't you hammer it's good to hammer, scum" "Oh") and both me and iaun detailed when and why someone should claim in the manner I've been preaching for the past six pages.

[Vi]

Also still waiting on ckd to check in with actual content or confirm that he's not going to post anything enlightening for the rest of the Day.

[Vi]

npau.
There's something beyond that "Yet." you quoted. Please at least acknowledge it.

I don't think Equinox's point about scum necessarily being calmer at L-1 is necessarily correct in theory, seeing as how not everyone gets put to L-1 for (what are seen as) legitimate reasons and nobody likes getting lynched for craplogic.

@SK - how was the purpose of your vote achieved when nopoint hadn't even posted yet?

I can already tell what the answer to this is going to be

[Vi]

Seriously, people, what part of "I didn't vote nopoint to lynch him, I voted him to convey a message" did you

not

understand?

The part where you normally don't vote while catching up unless you have a definite scumread. Considering you didn't mention npau until then, it would be safe to say that he wasn't a definite (or at least well-reasoned) scumread. Most people would take that as an attempt at posturing for the sake of faking activity instead of posturing for the sake of being unnecessarily dramatic.

But more importantly,

I wanted to provoke nopoint into posting content. I could also have said something like, "Nopoint, I don't like how you're refusing to do stuff until I say something, so cut it out," but

[etc.]

Are you saying that npau hadn't posted "content" (given early-game V/LA) before bringing your name up?
Do you even know what "stuff" you were referring to or why you were being waited on?

Speaking of unnecessary drama, the FoS on ckd is kind of :?ish coming immediately after ckd saying that he's going to catch up in what we can assume is a reasonable timeframe.

I await the rest of your catch-up

fluff

post with great interest.

[Vi]

npau.
There's something beyond that "Yet." you quoted. Please at least acknowledge it.

Meh?

Try harder.

Yes. Else I'd unvote you asap.

What would you do then?

3> This is a matter of personal opinion, not alignment.

Elaborate on this too. It's ambiguous right now.

[Vi]

curious vi, when should I have claimed? You can shake your finger all you want, but you just avoided lynching town.

You should have claimed when someone asked for a claim, at least if vanilla. With power roles (and scum) things get a little messier but etc.

So many walls, eyes are bleeding

I still don't know--WHAT I'M SINGING ♪
We're so loud and--INCOHERENT ♪
Boy this oughta--BUG YOUR PARENTS--YEAH ♪

-I actually like nopoint. I thought he came out looking better in his spat with Equinox. I like the too many town reads point too. It helped me catch scum before

In unsurprising news, I don't agree with any of this - considering I had the same problem (too many Town reads) when I voted npau. If I have Town reads on {ckd, Equinox, VP Baltar?, sottyrulez}, then etc. npau dodging pointed questions after his Equinox+ckd case didn't take hold and St.K's general existence actually lends itself to this a bit.

To address your questions before you make them--
*ckd - I can vouch that ckd has been busy elsewhere. All things considered I think I'm willing to keep him in the watch-but-more-likely-Town bin.
*Equinox - etc.
*VP Baltar - Given how often it happens I'm actually kind of unnerved that VPB is agreeing with me, especially after last game. What gives?
*sottyrulez - I don't like about half of what they're saying (which is about 30% less disagreement than before, so etc.). But if they're scum they're faking a lot better than last game.

[Vi]

-I actually like nopoint. I thought he came out looking better in his spat with Equinox. I like the too many town reads point too. It helped me catch scum before

In unsurprising news, I don't agree with any of this - considering I had the same problem (too many Town reads) when I voted npau. If I have Town reads on {ckd, Equinox, VP Baltar?, sottyrulez}, then etc. npau dodging pointed questions after his Equinox+ckd case didn't take hold and St.K's general existence actually lends itself to this a bit.

He dodged questions? I missed that. Can you direct me to the post in question?

Probably not more easily than I can summarize it. Tell me if this isn't accurate.
npau: lol ckd and Equinox are scum
Equinox: NUH-UH
npau: well okay you might be scum, i'll wait for sk
Equinox: NUH-UH
npau: shut up i'm waiting for sk
Everyone: WHY
npau: i like calling the team
Vi: WHAT WOULD SK CHANGE
npau: if i don't like my equinox case at some point i'll unvote
Vi: and do what
npau: ...
Vi: *cough*
npau: meh (210)

Two things. One, the part about calling the team doesn't ring true with me. Actual quote:

No because I look for scum teams, not solely scum. If St.K looks scummy for example, it would further disprove my case against Equi/CKD.

Notice that Equinox and ckd are necessarily scum

together

.
Second and following that, there is deliberately no mention of secondary suspicions if Equinox&&ckd doesn't fit his model. It thus seems somewhat unsurprising that he attacked St.K, although apparently Inspector K isn't scummy enough to unvote Equinox.

Perhaps you're of a different alignment this time.

Likewise. How do you know I'm of a different alignment? And since you brought it up, do you still find Equinox to be scum/my?

[Vi]

Likewise. How do you know I'm of a different alignment? And since you brought it up, do you still find Equinox to be scum/my?

When did I say I knew you were of a different alignment? Wow, that's just flat out scummy if you actually read that from what I wrote and are seriously asking that question.

*snort* Today was a long day, I needed that.
All right, let's play this your way.

Perhaps you're of a different alignment this time.

"OR MAYBE YOU'RE NOT but let's not take any hard stance on this or anything."
There, no presupposition of knowledge and the appropriate blanks on reasoning filled in from your response. You're welcome.

My point is that I'm town this game, so maybe you're town to and therefore I agree with good town points being made.

Waitwaitwait.
*VPB-Town -> Vi-Town? I mean, it would be REALLY COOL if games were like that, but I'm quite surprised that you're willing to say that after getting burned by Vi-scum

again

. I mean really.
*So you're agreeing with what I'm saying because I'm apparently Town...? Isn't it supposed to go the other way?

In terms of Equinox, you should read my posts when I commented on her link and changed my vote.

It sounds like you went from calling out her L-1 vote as poorly reasoned and rolefishing to just not rolefishing. I think sottyrulez is still going fairly strong on the Equihate wagon for other reasons, so it's not like that's all that's on the table about her.

Yyyyyyyeah just a little too much slime here.

[Vi]

Okay the first part of that may be overboard, as my question was poorly worded.
The intent was "Why do you think I'm of a different alignment

[from last time]

", and that's still the question I want answered given that his reasoning for acting differently is based on a noncommittal "perhaps I'm of a different alignment this time".

[Vi]

3> This is a matter of personal opinion, not alignment.

Elaborate on this too. It's ambiguous right now.

Whether walls of texts are scummy or not

is a matter of personal opinion, not alignment.

Happy?

I think both me and St.K will disagree about anyone saying walls of text are scummy. (Not that posting walls of text is scummy, but whether anyone said that.)

npau dodging pointed questions after his Equinox+ckd case didn't take hold and St.K's general existence actually lends itself to this a bit.

Neither am I dodging or you are being pointed.

npau: lol ckd and Equinox are scum
Equinox: NUH-UH
npau: well okay you might be scum, i'll wait for sk
Equinox: NUH-UH
npau: shut up i'm waiting for sk
Everyone: WHY
npau: i like calling the team
Vi: WHAT WOULD SK CHANGE
npau: if i don't like my equinox case at some point i'll unvote
Vi: and do what
npau: ...
Vi: *cough*
npau: meh (210)

This isn't accurate.

Blanket statements are extremely convincing.

Two things. One, the part about calling the team doesn't ring true with me. Actual quote:

No because I look for scum teams, not solely scum. If St.K looks scummy for example, it would further disprove my case against Equi/CKD.

Notice that Equinox and ckd are necessarily scum

together

.

So ?

One, as mentioned before calling the team based on associative connections usually doesn't work.
Two, I'm very confident you're wrong already. (not that I expect that to convince you)
Three, it seems like a narrow way to look at either of Equinox or curiouskarmadog, what with the implications being that
*you would have to start over if Equinox+ckd didn't work out (especially given the next quote)
*Equinox+ckd aren't being considered as separately scummy
So scumhunting that doesn't work and is on the verge of being abandoned, yet still consciously kept up with. EXTREMELY TOWNISH BEHAVIOR.

Second and following that, there is deliberately no mention of secondary suspicions if Equinox&&ckd doesn't fit his model. It thus seems somewhat unsurprising that he attacked St.K, although apparently Inspector K isn't scummy enough to unvote Equinox.

I thought you were better at reading.

Yo. I'm back!
- The scums are likely Equinox/CKD.
- Vi has a completely different vibe from the way he was last game ( dunno if it's the ava ). His over committed defense for Equinox also looks town.

- At first I suspected VP + SR of playing the distancing card at the start because their points against each other were so trivial until post #54, 55, 56 dispelled my suspicion to a large extent. However, I'm still noting this possibility as they have recently gotten inexplicably friendly towards each other.

- No read on St.Kerrigan.

And you're saying nothing has changed since your first real post?

Apologies for wallposting; this post is fairly short without them but context, etc.

[Vi]

This almost sounds accusatory. Do you think it was scummy of ckd to claim when he did?

I'm not sure about scummy, but certainly anti-Town. Is there any surprise that I almost sound accusatory (unintentionally as by this time the point has been driven into the ground)?

No my point was if you're making good points that I find logical, I tend to agree. Reading back over my sentence...well that's barely English. But if you make well reasoned points, I tend to believe you're town. This applies to anyone and not just you. I guess this has bitten me in the behind (twice?) before with respect to you, but that doesn't mean I should automatically disagree with you on everything or find you scummy for no apparent reason other than my own alignment being with the town. If you think VP Baltar agreeing with occasional remarks from you = scummy, then you're being ridiculous my friend.

YOU SAID "MY FRIEND" YOU'RE BUDDYING OMG

We're talking about points you agree with and points you don't agree with, and my memory's poor. Could you throw out some examples of each?

<stuff>
I don't see what what SRs pursuit of Equinox has to do with my own feelings on the subject. You can elaborate on what you meant there.

What are your own feelings about SR's pursuit of Equinox?

The intent was "Why do you think I'm of a different alignment [from last time]", and that's still the question I want answered given that his reasoning for acting differently is based on a noncommittal "perhaps I'm of a different alignment this time".

Again, I never said explicitly that I believe you're of a different alignment. In case you haven't noticed, I don't read you all that easy and I'm certainly not ready to commit to you being town. I don't see how you take a snarky response from me and take it to mean that I have some kind of uber town read on you. I feel you're townish just because you generally seem more feisty this game, but I imagine that if either you or SR got the same alignment this time around you'd definitely try and switch up your playstyle as much possible to keep the heat off of you.

Snark detectors don't come standard on ViBots.

You (still) don't seem to be all that concerned about mis/reading me right now. Y/N and why?

Where the hell is Equinox? Where the hell is SK? I thought I was moving toward being the laziest player in this thread.

I think Equinox's sig should explain her. npau is antisocial and only posts at like 2 in the morning. I think I've seen everyone else around today except maybe ckd (who just recently posted). I already noticed you were moving toward being the laziest player in the thread >_>

Bleh, this isn't much BBCode but it looks like a wallpost.

[Vi]

Well, it is a bit odd to see you make a seemingly accusatory statement about something I thought you had written off prior as anti-town, yes.

He asked.

but my reads aren't really that strong and we're on page 10 at this point.

Do tell.

[Vi]

And you're saying nothing has changed since your first real post?

I didn't say that. Why do you think so?

That is exactly what you said by saying that VPB+sottyrulez was your backup plan if Equinox+ckd didn't go through.

Vi has taken to the bad habit of overreacting to bad things people say about him

Good things too.

Actually true. >.>

Where the hell is Equinox? Where the hell is SK? I thought I was moving toward being the laziest player in this thread.

I think Equinox's sig should explain her. npau is antisocial and only posts at like 2 in the morning.

Antisocial =/= posting at 2 a.m =/= posting at 2 a.m in my time zone.

I still insist I said nothing incorrect, although you being antisocial and posting at 2 in the morning my time aren't necessarily related

[Vi]

Not enough time or interest to post tonight, especially if it's going to involve reading more drivel from sottyrulez and Equinox.

Well, beyond this.

*VP Baltar: I was hoping for more "reads" than "list". Like reasoning. You know what I'm talking about.
*Equinox: People who bash anime avatars, especially when they're not from anime and especially given the userbase of this site, tend to be what we in the industry call "douches". You can feel free to not listen to them.

[Vi]

*VP Baltar: I was hoping for more "reads" than "list". Like reasoning. You know what I'm talking about.

Using words helps me to know what you're talking about. I'm not really in the mood to write a giant wall post explaining each incident that lead to someone being placed on a particular spot on my list. Is there someone in particular you're interested in? Despite my recent bout of laziness, I think I've been relatively clear on the hows and whys of that list even if I hadn't typed it out in ordered form prior.

I'm not even asking for a giant wall. Two- or three-line summaries will do.

You aren't xRx. This laziness doesn't become your Town meta at all.

------
@@@
------

Day 1 in Pie E7 has two goals.
*Lynch scum
*Failing the above, prevent the scum from learning who the power roles are

I believe at this point we've failed utterly at the latter. Therefore I want to

massclaim

here and now before the scum team can plan for it together. This way we can have a better chance at the former, since it's either that or nothing. Given that literally everyone is suspected by someone given the vote count and has a not-so-small chance of being lynched - plus the notion that scum have seen as much of the softclaiming as I have ITT - confirming the power roles Today wouldn't be a waste. Of course I've already worked out the best-plays for various outcomes but I'm not going to go into that now.

Ideally curiouskarmadog can pick the first person to claim, since he has already claimed and nobody actually seems to think he's scum.

[Vi]

I can see a very obvious play by the scum if we mass claim that probably would not end well for town...I assume you do too? You're willing to risk it?

Yes I do and yes I am. I wouldn't suggest it if I didn't think it would work anyway.

but you're also eliminating any small chance we have making use of our PRs tonight.

*Lynch scum
*Failing that, prevent the scum from learning who the power roles are

I believe at this point we've failed utterly at the latter.

I'm almost inclined to call it a scummy suggestion, since I know you're a more thorough thinker than that.

Tu quoque

, Reck.

[Vi]

Day 1 in Pie E7 has two goals.
*Lynch scum
*Failing the above, prevent the scum from learning who the power roles are

I believe at this point we've failed utterly at the latter. Therefore I want to

massclaim

here and now before the scum team can plan for it together. This way we can have a better chance at the former, since it's either that or nothing. Given that literally everyone is suspected by someone given the vote count and has a not-so-small chance of being lynched - plus the notion that scum have seen as much of the softclaiming as I have ITT - confirming the power roles Today wouldn't be a waste. Of course I've already worked out the best-plays for various outcomes but I'm not going to go into that now.

Ideally curiouskarmadog can pick the first person to claim, since he has already claimed and nobody actually seems to think he's scum.

Give your thoughts on the advantages of claiming and how it is the best course of action. Or else you are blatantly role fishing one way or another.

*npau reads "massclaim" because it's in bolded
*npau stops reading rest of paragraph and accuses Vi of rolefishing
*Vi slow-claps

(

@curiouskarmadog:

sottyrulez is referencing me saying the quoted above)

We all play differently man…just because something works for you, doesn’t me it is the right play. As it stands, my claim…..or tone..or whatever, stopped a town lynch….so, I might have shrank the pool that scum will look for a power role, but I think the trade off is good…we can debate it more end game if you want.

We can debate it in endgame, sure.

The issue is, if you think my claim was a bad move (and this goes for everyone who is saying it) then you must think I am town….

Not necessarily true.

[Vi]

The issue is, if you think my claim was a bad move (and this goes for everyone who is saying it) then you must think I am town….

Not necessarily true.

how as town can you think my move was bad AND assume I am scum?...unless you are saying that scum would also say my move was a bad one, then I am inclined to agree (but I doubt that is what you are saying)

Saying "all bad moves are made by Town" is a false generalization.
Saying YOUR bad move was made by Town is a different matter. That's what I'm saying here.

Vi: You made a point that VP Baltar's "laziness" does not match his town meta. Do you find laziness to be a town tell or a scum tell?

You just gave the answer you want to hear from me and then asked a much more general question.
Laziness or general hanging back isn't a universal tell. For VP Baltar I think otherwise, since I have experience catching lazy VPB-scum while watching active VPB-Town :SCIENCE!:

^ To that... wow. (280)

I'm honestly shocked by that reaction. (And by some of the others.)

I'm incredulous.
The only reason I'm not full-on flaming both of you (in the sottyrulez hydra) right now is because it won't solve anything.

If you will kindly turn your attention to VP Baltar, who has been egging this on nicely from the sidelines and was quick to call me scummy for my massclaim suggestion, I would be much obliged.

[Vi]

Post #267: massclaim? for real? On day 1? AM I the only one who thinks Vi looks nervous?

Post #270: NPAU, I do not think that Vi is trying to rolefish with a massclaim, common. You guys define yourselves elite-players. I bet he knows better than this, if he is scum.

You're talking out both sides of your mouth here.

I'm not nervous in asking for a massclaim D1, and I have no idea how you came to that conclusion. If anything I'm very confident.

---

So welcome, etc. Do you have any particular questions for me? In the interest of not cluttering the thread with low-to-mid-importance walls, I'm not going through and answering every little thing I disagree with.

Also, massclaim, Y/N

[Vi]

*npau reads "massclaim" because it's in bolded
*npau stops reading rest of paragraph and accuses Vi of rolefishing
*Vi slow-claps

If you don't bother to respond then answer why you refuse to go into the pros and cons of mass claiming before trying to convince us to do so?

It's possible, albeit unlikely, for the massclaim to backfire. But I don't want to go into explicit theoretical detail about the pros and cons so as to sway how scum should re/act.

Everything you need to know is mentioned in that paragraph. If you're too lazy to read it again, here it is in even shorter form.
*Pros: Massclaim occurs before scum can coordinate it, massclaim is not as likely to hurt Town because the power roles are very likely to be obvious by this point, it will make it more likely for us to lynch scum D1 (at which point it will become much easier for Town to win).
*Cons: The scum will definitely know who the power roles are, as opposed to

probably

knowing who the power roles are.

[Vi]

This WILL happen.

@curiouskarmadog: Choose the next person to claim in your next post.

[Vi]

Your English is fine. Truthfully, a pretty large number of people I've met who speak English as a second language can speak it better than natives.

[Vi]

Now the reason Vi is rolefishing "one way or another":
- Massclaiming today is detrimental to town in that no town PR will be effective at night.
- Vi could not possibly have seen who the obvious town PRs are.
- The point of the underlined post was a rolefish within a rolefish. PRs like me will know that it is fluffs and thus, expressed disagreement with Vi's massclaim suggestion, therefore outing ourselves to Vi.

-If we don't lynch scum, yes. But then that's not different from what happened last game, and Town had a good shot then. In any event, this massclaim IS our best chance at lynching scum Today for reasons that will become apparent at the end.
-Dead wrong.
-See above.

If you guys can't agree on this, well, you can lynch me first and then Vi and SaintKerrigan.

We are not lynching you today, tomorrow, or ever.

Please stop saying we can, will, or should. (or be forever branded an emo kid)

And yes, I want the Cop to claim, speaking as a

vanilla

. To the scum, the Cop is 100% known at this point, so there's no backing down now.

You may think you know why I'm doing this, but you have no idea.

[Vi]

In related news.

Unofficial Vote Count

Vi 3 - Saint K, Equinox, nopointactingup
Equinox 1 - Sotty
Saint K 1 - Vi

I'm at L-1.

I would acquiesce to being lynched Today if it meant you could follow my instructions Days 2 and 3, but it would really suck to be you if I were quickhammered before I was done and explained myself. There is strong scum motivation to quickhammer me while the scum knows who the Cop is, Town doesn't, and you don't know why I wanted to massclaim since like Page 5 or so.

[Vi]

Oh, look, I L-1'ed someone again. :O

And you got another premature claim too.~

I stand by what you said, because again,

You may think you know why I'm doing this, but you have no idea.

Now if you could unvote me please. I have better things to do IRL than sit in front of the computer all day and wait to see if I'll have to throw out a hasty conclusion in Twilight.

[Vi]

I will NOT elaborate until the massclaim is finished. I'm sorry for stringing everyone along like this, but it's not happening.

Even assuming you are telling the truth, the scum would still have to take a 50/50 at 2 of [Equi, Lewarcher, Sotty, St.K]. That's not 100%.

This is not accurate. Although you reminded me that Equinox has not claimed.

[Vi]

Resorting to blank statement now?
Why not answer and if your answer is satisfying, we'll proceed to massclaim.

Because my answer will influence the rest of the massclaim.

[Vi]

Let's here others' thoughts on Massclaim or not.

I think that would be unwise.

It would not be a complete loss for me to stop now and reveal what I'm trying to do. However, it would blunt the effectiveness of the strategy.
Would you like for me to do that?

Incidentally, npau, where do you live?

[Vi]

Let's here others' thoughts on Massclaim or not.

I think that would be unwise.

Actually it might not be, never mind.

[Vi]

@Vi: you claim out of the chain? Why? Am I to assume that the chain is not important to your plan? Or should I wait for my turn? I will have you notice that a chaotic massclaim is easier for scum...

Claim when you like.

[Vi]

Looking for something, lewarcher?

[Vi]

Vi would you prefer lewarcher to claim first or us?

Neither, but I don't see SaintKerrigan.

lewarcher, then.

[Vi]

I suspected as much.

Should I wait for SaintKerrigan and Equinox to claim before proceeding?

[Vi]

Where your 2 a.m is 2 p.m.

Ah, that makes sense on a few levels.

Let me get the mood music going here.

Let's start with curiouskarmadog's claim. Vanilla, page 2 or 3 or something early. Believing it credible, everyone backed off. For the following, let's assume that ckd really is a V. Townie. This is already bad for N1, but still workable.

Now look at Page 5, where Equinox even then was offering to toss herself to the D1 lynch. (Post 110) Understand that in this setup,

anyone ever interested in claiming a power role will not offer to be lynched

. From this moment on, if Equinox and ckd are not scum, the scum now have two Vanilla claims to work with when planning their Night actions. I expressed my displeasure with this in Post 113. Incidentally, I have yet to be convinced that Equinox is more likely to be scum. I will stake that Equinox is both Vanilla and Town.

Now consider that I am also a Vanilla Townie.

Now consider that there are exactly three Vanilla Townies in the game.

And here we get to the heart of where you're (cut by Equinox:

still

) misunderstanding my intentions. This massclaim isn't to find claimed power roles. It's to find claimed Vanilla Townies. VP Baltar mentioned that there was an "obvious plan for scum in a massclaim", and presumably he was talking about both scum claiming Vanilla.

But that's what I wanted!

If both scum claim Vanilla, and assuming ckd is not scum, this game is literally as easy as shooting fish in a barrel.

Unfortunately, it seems like people don't like following crazed mathematicians into massclaiming D1. Forget auto-claiming at L-1, THAT's against site meta. So it's understandable that you wouldn't want to do it. BUT, npau's Doc claim - which I have every reason to believe given neither Sotty7 nor lewarcher have counterclaimed - is all I need to lock the game down!

With ckd on our side we have four (IMO) confirmed Townies. The remaining three players are a Cop and two scum. Period. And conveniently, we have enough lynches to go through ALL of them. Helping out is that the four of us are a majority - those three cannot lynch without us!

As for fears about ckd-scum, assuming we simply lynch randomly out of the three-person suspect group, the chance that we will lose this way on D2 is (2/3)*(1/2) = 1/3. The other 2/3 of the time we will reach 3P LyLo and we can re-evaluate ckd then.

Lest you think I just made that up a few days ago, consider Post 116 (see earlier link) where I first brought up this plan. I've been sitting on this for ten days.

-----

That was, of course, the post I had in mind previously. Now that we have a counterclaim our odds of lynching correctly have just bumped up to 50%. If we're wrong Today, we go to 3P LyLo no matter what.

SaintKerrigan is, of course, either Cop or scum; and only a Cop if sottyrulez just counterclaimed her scumpartner (dubious but entertaining to think about). Fortunately for St.K, as of this point no claim is particularly necessary from that direction and thus this game should no longer distract from RL stuff.

-----

Now if you want to NONrandomly lynch out of those three, consider that St.K has been my pick for the meta tell I brought up earlier. In addition, a similar tell that I've seen Amished use to great effect can be summed up here--

2) why did I question the judgement of my predecessor? Hell, it's my job to do it, I am not him!

...and I believe sottyrulez can back me up on that. The tell is that scum are more likely to criticize their predecessors for being scummy or whichever.

Any questions before I vote lewarcher?

[Vi]

I figured nopopint was the doc after his confirm post, this is why we never really went after him.

Wait, how--

Feelin' good

Oh.

The major reason we would want to lynch St.K is to assume lewarcher isn't a Roleblocker, St.K is, and by lynching St.K we can break the game EVEN MORE D2 because the Cop is guaranteed to live that long. I'm not sure if that's really necessary though, especially when we have SIFOM.

Unvote: SaintKerrigan
Vote: lewarcher82

(L-1)

I miss playing with VPB-Town

[Vi]

Also my Ace Investigator avatar is paying off; forget all the people who liked the previous one better

[Vi]

You did well while you could. Sorry you had to go out so quickly on your first game returning to the site.

[Vi]

You all FAIL at quicklynches forever. Six posts when you could have done it in three. (But it still gets this game on the records page.)

I would have obv claimed vanilla and prayed that SK did the same.

And you both would have been lynched. You couldn't have flung enough dirt on me to get out of that massclaim.

SaintKerrigan, I respect that your life is busy, but considering at the time the mod got your replacement request you were essentially dead-halfZerg-walking anyway why did you stop the game until jason could basically find someone willing to pick up a guaranteed loss?

Equinox: Put your big girl pants on and get your avatar back. I'm being serious.

[Vi]

Also, CKD was right. Karma really is a bitch.

Curious karma, dog.

[Vi]

It didn't matter if you were afraid of the massclaim. What mattered was that Equinox and sottyrulez bought into my explanation. Had either of them not been convinced at the reveal, then yes, this game would have turned out even better for you than it already was.

I think "Ego wars" is a great title for this game

I agree, but it was a bit too painful to watch for my taste.

And I modded MoHO

[Vi]

When Vi explained the vanilla read on Equinox it made sense to me.

I'm not sure how convincing it would have been for me had it happened without VP's slot claiming cop though. (Which made Vi/Equinox impossible.)

Even if you lynched me, you could have just followed my instructions the next Day and lynched scum over the next two Days.

Of course, nobody ever listens to dead people so it's a good thing stuff happened the way it did!

[Vi]

i gots to get myself a hydra.

All the cool kids are getting one. In fact, I have one and I'm not one of the cool kids
I'm honestly surprised that I've actually had two legitimate reasons to use it in the past two weeks tbh, but I'm grateful for it.

[Vi]

Also @ckd: Is it just me or are you trying to send veiled messages via your sig?

[Vi]

i gots to get myself a hydra.

All the cool kids are getting one. In fact, I have one and I'm not one of the cool kids
I'm honestly surprised that I've actually had two legitimate reasons to use it in the past two weeks tbh, but I'm grateful for it.

Since when have you not been one of the cool kids?

You say that

now

, and the next time we meet it'll be like you want to kill me all over again. Mixed signals.

[Vi]

I always want to kill the cool kids.