Mini 1070 The Godfather:Hunt for Sollozzo (GAME!)

[Thor665]

Forsooth!

[Thor665]

Vote: ReCoyote

Coyotes are trickster spirits. Obvious liar is obvious.

Also, forsooth is most assuredly an exclamation of confirmation.

[Thor665]

Unvote, Vote: bv310 for bandwagoning.
And for being the mod of Hydra Mafia.

And I didn't get your vote because...?

[Thor665]

Unvote: RedCoyote
Vote: pacman281292

His explanation screams "this is a random vote, please pay no attention to it'

But he unvoted a random vote in order to make it.
That suggests that the second vote isn't really random.
But his answer suggests he wants me to believe it is.
He wants me to believe something that isn't true.
Wagon of win, welcome to the game.

[Thor665]

^^^

And in case you short guys in back can't tell - not RVS.

[Thor665]

I believe so.

You already had a random vote out.
You decided to change it (this is not random, something made you decide you should change your random vote)
You cite two reasons for the change;

1) [He] Bandwagon[ed] other player.
2) [Was] the Mod of Hydra Mafia.

2. is pretty obviously not a real reason (if it is, let everyone know so we can lynch you right away )
1. Is something of a real reason - maybe you like RVSing bandwagon voters. Ah, but 2 players had done the same thing, so, once again, your vote showed direction that was beyond RVS.

Your change of vote wasn't RVS
Your choice of bv instead of Thor wasn't RVS
Yet you claimed everything was RVS.
I submit that the evidence shows you were making a conscious decision to vote bv and/or unvote StrangerCoug, and that suggests scum mindset which makes you the clearly most obvious scum of the day thus far.
I'm pretty happy with the vote.

[Thor665]

The hell, StrangerCoug? Yes it does.

What do you see as the scum angle in my reasoning and vote?

Pretty much my other thoughts have been covered by other posters, but I'm seconding question by Wingless and agreeing with Pacman that Far_Cry managed to post a lot and provide very little.

I'm fascinated (as usual) by people thinking I'm "over-reacting" to things simply because I'm willing to point out what I feel is the most scummy action in two pages. I didn't over-react to anything, but with only 2 pages of info the threshold of what one finds scummy is lower (fascinating how someone voting someone else for being a mod somewhere isn't an over-reaction. I'm pretty sure my scumtell is more valid then that one, and indeed most of the reasons used for voting thus far.)

EBWOP: @Exilon - so lack of saying agree/disagree is a tell on everyone that posted between your first and second posts? Don't really see the progress.

$5 says Exilon's reasoning is that Far_Cry acted friendly to me in his first post - a massive buddy tell indeed. Don't see much value in hunting for buddy tells at this stage, but then I'm terrible with buddy tells.

[Thor665]

@StrangerCoug - I'm not calling a second random vote scummy at all. Why do you think I'm doing that?

I'm calling him claiming it as a second random vote when clearly there were choices and decisions made that he didn't account for as scummy.

@Exilon - I'm not denying you your methods, I'm saying I don't see the value added currently. Who are you applying your "GOT SOMETHING TO HIDE HUH" tell to? Who do you think ducked the question and why do you think that shows them having knowledge beyond what a town player would have?

[Thor665]

I never said Far_Cry "managet to post a lot and provided very little". Wingless "questions" are "Why is Thor scum? Why is Far_Cry scum?" as reply to an (IMO) random statement. BS.

I thought your response to Far_Cry was an indictment of his vague and not pointed posts. If not, feel free to tell me what your meant. I'll stand by my opinion towards his posts though.
I did second the Wingless questions...I...don't know what point you're trying to make otherwise though.

WHAT?
*head asplodes*
Your vote is indeed an overreaction to a joke directed to the moderator of one of the games I'll soon play at. How the hell is it "a serious reason"?
*head asplodes again.

I am not shocked that your head asplodes as regards my case on you. I've yet to see anyone buy into the case on them Day 1.
I still don't find your constant need to restate just how random your vote is as convincing to me.

Lazy. However, Exilon's post might have a point. Gotta recheck that.

What does me being lazy have to do with anything?
Oh, this is mudslinging - never mind.

This reasoning made me laugh.
"Choices and decisions made that I didn't account for". Sure, man. The "Choices and decisions made that I didn't account for" were other people's random votes. I don't get how that might have made my second random vote invalid without invalidating all other random votes, thus failing to answer the adressed question properly. Thus, your logic fails.
I'm starting to dislike this guy...

I did address the question properly - he asked me if it made sense and I said 'yes'. You can *disagree* with that but implying that I dodged a question is simply more mudslinging.
I'm sorry that you now dislike me, you can still have some of my scumday cake, however.

[Thor665]

The "choices and decisions made that he didn't account for" aren't clear to me. If your case on him is trying to prolong the RVS, then I see your point, but I don't think we're on the same page here.

I've outlined them before but here goes ver 2.4;

He changed his vote from a random vote. To my mind the only reason to change off of one completely random vote to another completely random vote is...well...for reasons *other then* randomness.

He cited his reason (people who bandwagon) I pointed out how I was also bandwagoning, and had in fact been bandwagoning first.

Which means he had a reason when debating between Thor and bv for his new vote as to why he chose bv over Thor.
He claims the modding reason.
If he's telling the truth then that is a terrible reason to pick bv over me and isn't pro-town - which is a decent reason to vote someone.
If he's lying then he had other reasons he's not telling us, which isn't pro-town - which is a decent reason to vote someone.
I'll also add that he's gone on a little blitz against me, wherein he's called some stuff I did "lazy" and "BS" and has intimated that he doesn't like me and that he thinks there is some meat to Thorscum/Far_Cryscum and he's done this all...without switching his vote to me.

That seems odd, since I'm pretty sure by everything he's said that I should be higher on his scumlist then bv is. So why leave the vote on bv? I dunno. Want to find out. Shall try to lynch him for his non-accounted for actions until I get a better scumread on someone else or I start getting a town read on him.

Follow now?

[Thor665]

I think I'll like Exilon. He's in the town basket for now.

@Bub - you said you read Pacman/Thor as townie vs. townie - why?

[Thor665]

It's slightly dangerous to say, but...I agree with Katsuki ::dives for cover::. The point on Red Coyote makes sense - declaring 'this is a pressure vote' when making a pressure vote sort of defeats the pressure, and thus the purpose, of the vote.

I think Red Coyote is now my #2 and Bub is lurking at #3 and will be clarified more once he answers my question from last page.

@Zajnet - you've asked a lot of questions but all the stances you've taken I would term as "safe" stances insomuch as they're not taking a strong stance and/or are about inconsequential happenings. Who is your current top scum read and why?

[Thor665]

1. It's fine that you disagree - I disagree with your disageement.

2. I put him as my #2, so yes, I find him fairly scummy within the options I have presented before me. I'll add that I was not particularly a fan of either of his last two votes (myself and bv) The vote on me was just awful, and the vote on bv was apparently because he couldn't just come up with a question for bv to answer - which was functionally what he was saying "I'm voting you because you haven't provided insight yet" which is another awful vote. Not even sure why he unvoted me yet - his voting pattern is just weak and weak suggests lack of belief which suggests scummy.

3. No, I'm drastically nervous about my opinion at all times and live in eternal fear of anyone questioning it ever. Or I was making a joke. I don't recall which.

[Thor665]

Why did you not decide to mention this or vote him for that action?

[Thor665]

@Red Coyote - Take your last sentence ("Hey, bv, I noticed you didn't post, so don't think you're going to get to fly under the radar".) and pretend you'd posted that instead of a vote.

What would be different in the effect on bv?

The vote is pointless, and you've made it pointless - a simple "hey, bv, stop lurking and post moar!" would be just as effective and allow you to put your vote on someone you're actually willing to call scummy - which you have yet to really do with bv, so it makes me wonder why you'd bother voting him at all.

I don't get why it's "dangerous" to say you agree with Kat, or why you'd feel the need to dive for cover. Because of her age or meta? I mean, I understand this is more than a little tongue-in-cheek, but this rubs me the wrong way. Frankly, Kat is one of the most productive players so far, imo.

...wow, I have a *very* different read on the effectiveness of Katsuki's posts then you do. I think there have effectively been 2.5 out of 9 that had any point to the game at all - maybe I'm just really dumb.

As far as diving for cover, it's because my tongue had to leap into the cheek trench due to the danger all around me. I'm fine if it "rubs you the wrong way" though I surmise you probably have little joy in your life.

Final question - Why do you think bv is worse in breaking his promise of when to post then pacman is?

EBWOPreview - well, great minds think alike, clearly. I was more abrasive in my commentary though, so I'll leave it.

[Thor665]

However, I am not getting the fear that some people seem to have of placing a vote on RC (coughthorcough). If I am not wrong in reading that thor's reasoning behind suspicion of RC is not the same as mine, then I am left to wonder.

cough*Because I might still be trying to get something going on a player who currently feels to be lurking for defense*cough

[Thor665]

How do you think pacman initiated/elongated the situation of being "out there"?

[Thor665]

EBWOP - the above is @Bud

[Thor665]

Jokes or not, I think Exilon has provided some actual interactions and some reasonable explanations of his reasoning - which strikes me as pretty town.
Feeling less fond of FG insomuch as he doesn't seem to be coming out with much of his own opinions yet and his last post was nothing but defense and a jab at RedCoyote.
StrangerCoug is in the scumpond now because he seems to be clinging to the sidelines with a white-knuckled grip of super focus.

Wingless continues to flutter around a lot too. Opinions - use them.

<---EBWOP - actually that was a pretty decent opinion post.

Unvote: pacman
Vote: RedCoyote

I'll spare re-stating my reasons unless someone is too lazy to search my iso and demands it. Not overly fond of pacman still, but I can't seem to get a lot of traction on the wagon and his focused drive to misunderstand my vote on him isn't as fun as it once was. His wall post of attempted towniness was decent enough though, and though I suspect it might have been a screen I am forced to admit it's more town points then some people have bothered to accrue yet and thus it is worth backing off of him for now.

[Thor665]

And if I feel a need to find your unwillingness to really wade in scummy I shall do so as well. So I think we are in agreement.

[Thor665]

Is there anybody on which you want me to state my opinion?

Everyone, constantly

How about your Wingless read currently? The old stuff is fine, the new stuff I'd especially like to hear your take on.

[Thor665]

Oooh, and actually as long as I'm asking - you've let two separate things "play out" now (Thor/Pac, Exilon/RC) other then stating that Exilon is now sort of your primary focus I don't actually feel like I know your opinion on either of those scuffles - are you still letting them 'play out' or have you reached some conclusions?

[Thor665]

Wingless I'm leaning town on, but Zajnet makes a good point about his #143.

Zajnet noted that one of his thoughts was WIFOM...does this change your opinion about thinking he's town or something? The use of the word 'but' tends to imply this. Why'd you mention it and why do you have a town read on him otherwise/in spite of/because of this?

[Thor665]

@RedCoyote - you're seriously advancing as a theory that scumFG declared in thread "I'mma just support that highest bandwagon!" and that this action is scummy? Pretty much every game opener I've done in the past half year I've used the exact same logic and my first vote is always to the highest wagon (unless I'm the highest, natch) - what's so scummy about that at that stage of the game?

@Katsuki

[Thor665]

First, I will note I didn't call your comment WIFOM so I'm not sure why you'd include me in the people who have to explain why it's WIFOM.

Second, it is WIFOM, but I personally think almost all tells are and find it a weak comment to make. That said, the probably point being advanced on it by Stranger and Zajnet (primarily Zajnet) is that if Bub/Thor was part of the scumteam it would be very easy for me to pretend to get his name wrong so that he could call me on it and that therefore all the town would think "obvious not partners are obvious" That's the WIFOM potential for the thought.

[Thor665]

Amazing, you responded with a mix of sarcasm and set up a straw man all in one go. Do you really think it's so unreasonable of me to ask you to explain why you think something you're calling scummy was scummy? Do you think his stated lynch plan is really identical to the example you just provided?

[Thor665]

Look, the point I'm making is that, "I'm going to support the highest wagon" is surely not optimal play. I'm not sure why it is you're breaking up the game into stages. That's not a random vote (it's clearly aimed at whoever is the most popular vote getter), and it's not an independent vote either. What "stage" do you feel this comment would be appropriate in?

I do find it scummy. For you to sit here and write it off as "something you do", is that supposed to make me feel better about him?

Is it surely not optimal play? Personally I think supporting the highest bandwagon in RVS is fairly optimal for a couple of reasons. Why isn't it optimal play - and moreso, why is it scummy?
I feel in RVS it is appropriate. i feel on Day 2 it isn't. Somewhere in between is when the shift happens.
For me to "write it off as something I do"

should

make you at least wonder, because either I am scum blatantly lying to protect my partner or I am town who legitimately sees his actions as not a scum tell because it's something I do as town.

Again - explain why scum would be more likely to do this then town.
What was the scum motivation for his act?

[Thor665]

To be more blunt, the scum motivation behind this is FG is hypocritically throwing around positions about what he thinks is anti-town and what's not.

RVS isn't random, it's just called that. You're silly.
I'm drunk and sleepy, I'll check in tomorrow and see if this somehow makes more sense then.
I sort of doubt it will.
I will say this whole position seems so silly that I might be leaning RedCoyote town at this stage, this feels like newbie insanity to me.

[Thor665]

Mmmm, neutral about FG parroting my stance from my last post, especially since it was a late night post evening with the guys post so there's no way it's *that* brilliant.

RedCoyote still seems insane, he obviously believes what he's peddling but I'm having a hard time sussing out whether it is being advanced as scum or town logic. FG certainly seems like a functionally obvious mislynch candidate due to the way he's playing, but to be advancing a scumtell like that I almost wonder if RC is the type of scum to lead a case and try to push it on a VI. I'm mildly supporting FG just because of how StrangerCoug is reacting towards him as well, might need to do a shift to Coug to see if that makes more sense to me.

@Bub - I'll spare you the usual 'why give replacement's a chance if you think their slot is scummy' spiel (though I agree with it ) and will instead request that you weigh in with your thoughts on RC and/or FG since I don't think you've commented there yet. Your last post was pretty much pointless and I want more out of you.

[Thor665]

Actually - nix the StrangerCoug stuff in the above post, on re-read his comments make more sense.

[Thor665]

@RedCoyote - an actual RVS would be anti-town. RVS is really simply a low information stage. The votes count and really none of them are random, they're just made with a derth of information.

You still haven't explained why FG's stated desire to vote the highest bandwagon (and as I recall, he never even did this after saying he would) equates to him being scummy. Let's focus on that since it actually matters at the moment. The extent of your scum read on it is "it wasn't random" I don't see how that suggests he was scum, nor why he would announce the plan, nor why he then wouldn't follow through with it.

[Thor665]

@RedCoyote - I still don't understand why you think FGscum would do the actions he's done in your mind. You keep kind of vaguely shuffling around and pointing and bemoanng his action all while failing to be able to describe how the action is actually scummy.

The FG vote is terribad.

Unvote: RedCoyote

That said, I'm pretty sure the source isn't scum - this is just too weak of a plan methinks, and he legitimately believes it, which makes me think he's town. Purblind as a town tell? Yeah, I just did that. Will need to do a re-read (or at least claim to ) to decide where I want to be now. My reads are all muddled currently.

[Thor665]

pacman declared a lengthy v/la and won't be back till after deadline.

I'm planning to psychotically tunnel him tomorrow because of this.

@Exilon - you, RC, and myself ought to debate RVS methodology sometime.

Vote: Bub Bidderskins

[Thor665]

Psssh, get on the Bub wagon, it has mocha.

[Thor665]

@Bub - RCwagon is dead to me at the moment. I want my vote to be useful and not sidelined. If you cry unless you hear a reason then my reason is; gut.

You're welcome.

[Thor665]

Because I'm pretty sure Red Coyote is town because he wasn't advancing his case with scummy intentions but rather that he believed it. So, get on someone who isn't town.

[Thor665]

Ah, thought you were seeing if you wanted in on the RC wagon.

I'm being pretty honest about the gut thing for Bub - something about the way he's playing just twigs me wrong. I haven't got any brilliant cases as currently stands. I probably want him, pac, or you to be the lynch today and at the moment I'm fairly indifferent as to which. I feel slightly bad running a wagon on a missing guy, and there appears to be more support for a Bub wagon then a SC wagon so...

[Thor665]

@SC - there's something about his attitude of analysis and focus when paired with not noticing a player declared V/LA. Feels like he's trying to look really intent while not being intent at all.

I still don't get the Exilon vote either, he acted VI early but when pressured was able to explain the logic of the VIness - that strikes me as pretty pro-town as it tends to codify the game out of RVS via scumlure for tasty VI action and also none of the things he did make sense in a particular anti-town/scummy way. Why don't you explain to me the best you're able why I should be on the Exilon vote?

[Thor665]

I my I me I I my I my me me me me me I me

There seems to be a running theme in your commentary of late - any reads on someone not based on interactions with you?

[Thor665]

@FakeGod - ending posts in ellipses is scummy. If you want to claim that Exilon is acting scummy then grow a set and say so.

I'm not sure I'm particularly against the Katsuki action, as I can understand the lurker vote movement, I'm just not really super excited by it. Of our lurkers, why Katsuki, and can't we just lynch Bub instead - he's almost a lurker and I've got a scummy gut vibe there at least.

[Thor665]

Is there any of the players left who aren't V/LA and/or flaking?

I'm pretty content to note that the Bub wagon is currently the largest (well, thanks to SC we're tied with the RC wagon - but RC is pretty likely town, so I hate that wagon), all you single vote wagon losers better start screaming about how awesome your wagon is or move your votes to somewhere useful.

Let's kill the RC wagon.
Let's lynch Bub.
Let's not be deadline donked.

[Thor665]

I will vote bub if needed to avoid no lynch.

I would also be fine with a zajnet lynch.

Need to look at and examine FG case.

Why is RC scum? I'd like to hear that one too. Move the useless vote, he is town.

[Thor665]

@Kat - while we're at it, of your two mentioned players you would lynch (Zaj and Bub) - which would you prefer, and why?

[Thor665]

Funny of you to say that. You're actually right, the vast majority of my opinions tend to come from direct interactions with me.

Why would it be funny of to ask then, if I'm right. Also - you never actually then provide a read on anyone that doesn't involve interactions with you. Please try again.
How about a read on Antihero - I don't actually think the two of you have interacted at all and I wouldn't mind seeing a bit of analysis.

But even with me being self-centered, I still manage to get ignored xD. for instance, I asked you a while ago (same as Bub, actually) why the heck you moved your vote over to Bub, and you only answered when HE asked.

You're right, I did ignore that question. Does this have a point?

Similarly, I've asked everyone to please tell me why Wingless is not a good lynch candidate, (things such as 'x person is better' isn't really a good reason).

How is that not a good reason?
Why is he a *better* candidate?
All such reads are subjective.

I've got gut on Bub, I don't feel Wingless yet, he's tossing off enough newbie energy I can't discern how scummy I think his actions may or may not be. Therefore, urge to lynch is lower then someone I think is "better"

[Thor665]

There is nothing for me to answer to Antihero - he was answering me.
Boom?
I'll ignore your questions if I feel there's a need to, and there was.
As far as the case, ::shrug:: I am not the most brilliant case maker, but I've made what I can on it. I have presented more then gut, you're being silly if you think I haven't.
I've also not been wishy-washy about Wingless, I would rather lynch Bub than him, that's a stance and is clearly made. If you think I'm being wishy-washy then try to lock me down, otherwise spare me the buzz words.
1. It does work here, I just did it.
2. I'm emotionally comfortable with that happening, and it doesn't change my read.

[Thor665]

Why was there a need to ignore me?

I might have been trying to see how Bub reacted to the vote and pressure first - don't tell anyone my secrets.

If you think excusing his behaviour on being a newbie in detriment of following a gut read works, then, with all due respect, you're being anti-town and you should reconsider that belief.

If you think being a good town involves ignoring newbie reads then we clearly just disagree on that aspect of the game. Newbies have to be read differently then non-newbies, and that's the way I play. I don't think it's either scummy or anti-town and at least you agree with me on the important half of that equation.

[Thor665]

1) The activity is extremely low (6 pages in 10+ days in a mini game??). I know I'm somehow hypocrite for pointing this out, but is there any special reason for such a poor activity?

<--wait, no facepalm emoticon? Failure on my part!

The short answer is, because everyone in this freaking game is going on a vacation while their sister is being married and their computer broke down during their bout with the flu.

Wingless is being silly in half of his last post, but the desire for Bub votes is pretty sensible at this stage.

[Thor665]

Wow, I now officially hate bv if gandalf is speaking truth.
Hi gandalf!
We're lynching Bub today, wanna hammer?

[Thor665]

It won't die, but unless you're planning a giant wall post o' pure awesome it won't make a difference either.

Suit thyself.

[Thor665]

Oh gandy, if only there was.

I'm being pretty honest about the gut thing for Bub - something about the way he's playing just twigs me wrong. I haven't got any brilliant cases as currently stands. I probably want him, pac, or you to be the lynch today and at the moment I'm fairly indifferent as to which. I feel slightly bad running a wagon on a missing guy, and there appears to be more support for a Bub wagon then a SC wagon so...

I couldn't find it, but I know I also did a post where I noted that the gut seemed to stem from a pairing of his sloppy play around pushing for a guy who was V/LA for lurking when compared to his otherwise constant attempt to appear like a very detail oriented and focused town <---I also, sadly enough, think this might have been the only case presented on him, as if anyone else did anything I missed it.

We've had a bunch of lurking and non-participation in this topic, and basically Bub's wagon is chugging in as sort of a pathetic slap-fest of a wagon. That said, I do still have a gut scum read on him which is better then any of the other herpy-da-derp cases that have otherwise sort of piddled around today. Quite frankly, with deadline tomorrow and with the town so pathetically slow there is no way in heck the lynch is going to be anything *but* Bub at this stage, hence my request to just get the hammer because I'm praying once we have a flip some of these mooks will bother posting once in a while. If you really want to get up some walls of insight first, feel free.