Zachtown in the mountains (Game over TOWN WINS!)

[Sotty7]

^Link?

Also, hi.

[Sotty7]

I was going to go with

VOTE: I Am Innocent

I have it on good authority (a 7 year old) that Thursday is opposite day. Can't argue with that.

Opposite day is a compelling argument.

Vote: I Am Innocent

P.S: <3 you too Jason.

[Sotty7]

IAM, if Benmage's plan was scummy, why aren't you voting him?

[Sotty7]

IAM, if Benmage's plan was scummy, why aren't you voting him?

Cause it's page 2. I don't over react to poor play early in the game. More often than not these players turn up townie. But I'll watch him...

I dunno, you seem to be overreacting slightly to your wagon. This drew my eye in particular:

Any other scummy plans you think we should incorporate?

It looked like you were trying to dirty benmage for what he said in pregame and if you legitimately thought what he did was scummy you should have voted. Instead you threw out a random vote, it feels disingenuous.

The question felt a little spiteful and this explanation doesn't cut it.

Cause it's page 2. I don't over react to poor play early in the game. More often than not these players turn up townie. But I'll watch him...

= = = = = =

IAM, if Benmage's plan was scummy, why aren't you voting him?

Vote: Sotty7

Sotty's question struck me as deliberately aggrevating. It boiled down to "You said all this

serious

stuff about Benmage, why didn't you

serious

vote?". Seems like a trap for IAI - like either he's disingenuous or he's timid.

I thought IAI responded strongly, whilst Benmage took the bait to go all attack dog "the RVS is officially OVER, BITCHES, I am THROWING DOWN".

I don't do traps, they're silly.

Also, what was

strong

about IAM's response?
= = = = =

I agree with Percy's vote here. I'm thinking we have a similar problem with Sotty's comment. I don't recall IAI ever saying pointedly that Benmage's plan is scummy, yet she presumes that and gives him a question from that presumption.

Vote: Sotty7

BUZZ. Try again Red.

I already nix'd that plan. But thanks for the IIoA....looks like the 7 year old was right.

Information Instead of Analysis? I analyzed the one thing worth analyzing so far. Your initial scummy plan. Yeah you nixed it, after you were called on it. I just took the call on it and completely blew it up in your face.

Any other scummy plans you think we should incorporate?

= = = = =

(Keep in mind that I may establish rules pertaining to the scum's ability to night talk privately with the scum team. The town will not be informed as to these requirements.)

Apparently Zach is taking away mafia's night talk to make up for that.

What made you come to that conclusion based on that quoted statement? I would think scum have day talk.

= = = = =

! Oso. I already like you. Beat me to the punch. I might follow you onto Red, but I'm quite liking my IAM vote atm.

[Sotty7]

I asked that question to primarily gauge his reaction

And? What juiciness did you discover?

Sotty, you're smart,

Don't believe the hype.

why would I try to dirty benmage and then say he is townie? Your logic doesn't add up girl. Try again.

My logic works pretty well actually, go back and re-read the exchange between you, me and benamge and then get back to me on this.

= = = = = =

you know, this stat talk is really getting away from the actual objective of finding and lynching scum. I would suspect scum would be happy to drag discussion away from scum hunting in anyway possible maybe even perhaps lead the discussion away.....

Feel free to follow your own advice. Who are the scums?

Also I wouldn't say set up talk has flooded out the good stuff. In fact I have pretty much ignored the numbers. You should too.

= = = = = =

@Sotty, I may join you back on that wagon as RC's mistake may have simply been a reading phail. He(IaI) already seems to be flailing in his defense quite a bit and flood posting, and it's barely 4 pages into the game and slightly over 1 day since the game started. Have to take that 7 year old out for an ice cream.

The Red thing is probably null... But is

is

Red so I dunno. I'm kinda waiting to see what he does next before deciding.

Yeah, IAI does seem a tad frazzled. I think I like it.

[Sotty7]

Sotty, can you expalin your last bit of your post please for those of us not in the know of Red?

The Red thing is probably null... But is

is

Red so I dunno. I'm kinda waiting to see what he does next before deciding.

you Italic seems to suggest you are familar with his playstyle.. I have never played with him so am curious to know what you mean.

I mean that Red is a very capable player so him making a mistake that was so obvious was out of character. The more I think about it, the more it is probably null. Nobody is perfect after all. But I'm not discounting the possibility of scum Red screwing with my mind.

Ah so yeah, I agree with Elmo (post 78).

[Sotty7]

Unvote

IAM, when I said I wanted you frazzled I didn't mean melting down completely. Unvote yourself, your overreaction to the wagon on you is a little silly. Scum IAM would probably play it cool and brush it off so I'm going to make a leap of faith by taking my vote off for now. What you need to do when you come back into the thread is re-read the opening exchange between me, you and benmage. If you still can't see why my vote was on you I will talk you though it. If you are town you can be benefit so get in here and start doing that. At this point I really doubt any of the people you listed are scum. In other words, take a deep breath and start again, it looks like this is the first time you have been run up in this manner. Learn from it.

Lets try something different.

Vote: Nikanor

[Sotty7]

I'm spread a little thin right now. I know I owe this game a post, but I owe other games more.

I'll be back later.

[Sotty7]

Right out of my mouth, hilarious.

lol! I didn't realize that... You have brainwashed me clearly

The trap is that you set up a fight, and the one that backs down first is mislynch potential. Their interaction with their victorious opponent is then more than enough content for you to spin into something scummy. It's a great way for scum to start the day!

Eeeeh no. I don't believe I set anything up, it would have happened with or with my question I think. Also as easy as you can write a scum narrative for the question I can write a townie one. Wanting to know why IAM was using snide statements to make benamge look scummy while keeping his random vote. That doesn't sound like a town thought process on IAMs part does it?

I also took a very clear stance on the “fight” so it wasn't like I was fanning the flames or sitting on the fence.

@Sotty7: IAI was sensible in his response. He said that he didn't want to serious vote right away, but that Benmage was worth watching. What's wrong with that?

Why wait to place a serious vote? Why wait to place a semi serious vote? Acutally, as I type this I am having flash backs of Mini 775 where you spend a big portion of day one arguing about the need for an RVS. Do you still hold these beliefs?

= = = = = =

I'm a bit annoyed. Because IaI made so many bad arguments before that self-vote, and on principle, throwing an antitown hissy fit shouldn't manipulate people off his wagon...but it feels genuine. Call me a sucker, but I'm buying it. So I'll direct my attention elsewhere.

What arguments of his were bad to you? I don't like that I have to ask you this when you essentially ask mongoose the same kinda thing in the same post.

Why exactly do you think I am Innocent's suspicions were decent? Which ones in particular were decent?

This feels like sucking up.

Scummy?

Question to all those voting Nikanor or saying you support his wagon after Locke cast the first vote for him: what in particular makes you suspect Nikanor over another lurker? Is it just that he's already a viable bandwagon?

I'm not voting for Nik for lurking, what makes you think this is a lurker wagon? I will elaborate on my vote in a bit here though. I'm trying to not to wall it up too much so will probably come in a separate post.

= = = = = =

Where are you getting day talk from?

If I was one of three scum in this set up I'd want some day talk. The amount of mislynches needed would make me cry, double day or not.

= = = = = =

I've played with IAI as scum, and he seemed quite calm and collected. He was much more antagonistic here than I expected before his meltdown and I don't really see where the impetus for it came from, given that there were all of three votes on him at the time, which really isn't that much pressure. I'm treating it as a null tell and I think he needs some time to cool down.

This. From what I have seen IAI is very composed scum, he manipulated me very well in newbie 960 which is why I did nominate him for best new player like he said. I don't have any IAI's town play to compare with, but the magnitude of the meltdown just doesn't make sense for IAI scum. I am annoyed that he isn't addressing my point against him, but I will get to that in another post.

Sotty: what do you think of Nik's Jason vote?

I thought it was a RVS vote. He is now repping it as serious without any real transition. Not liking that move too much considering he hasn't asked Jason any questions at this point. He is just piling on with Elmo's reasoning and not even Elmo is voting for Jason. (I notice this changes as I work though the thread a little more, but at the time this was my thoughts)

= = = = =

No, I'm a day cop. jasonT is mafia.

And what is your goal behind claiming this early, when you're not even at L-1?

I won't go into “omg read the 1st post” but you seemed to believe this claim. Why didn't you vote for Jason?

= = = = =

ok,

i see above he is lying

.... Im happy with my vote. A claim like that could have outted a real cop.

Shouldn't you already know he was lying? What did you see?

Unvote

;

vote:jasonT1981

And how could a real Cop be outed in a mountainous game?

This is quite telling if you ask me.

How? Other players have demonstrated a lack of knowledge to the set up (furc, IKD) are they scummy too? I see your follow up to Jason in post 169 but you should know that being defensive isn't a scum tell.... So what?

= = = = =

However, that does look like a slip by jason.

Unvote. Vote: jasonT1981

Bad backdoor wagon vote right here.

Elaborate in your next post how Jason slipped and how that is scummy.

= = = = =

Usually the mafia distance themselves, so I thought one, maybe two would be on my early wagon to "see where it went". The first underlined caught my eye though. How could townie sotty be so sure that of the 5 or so players that were coming after me, that none of them were scum. It made more sense that scum was on the wagon, maybe multiple scum.

“I really doubt” isn't me being

sure

. At this point of the game I don't find the players you rattled off to be scummy. I also think you are reaching in this whole post with my whole “lets try something different” but whatever.

= = = = =

Okay I'm caught up. More coming.

[Sotty7]

why would I try to dirty benmage and then say he is townie? Your logic doesn't add up girl. Try again.

IAI I asked you on two seperate occasions to reevaluate this bad attack on me. Why did you ignore this?

The fact you threw in a dig on a player who you later state is probably a townie doesn't make you look good. I stated that I felt your direct question to benmage was more than a little bitter sounding

Any other scummy plans you think we should incorporate?

Explain to me why I wouldn't, upon seeing that post, think that you saw benmage as scum? It isn't until I directly question you that you say he is town. These two actions don't add up and I don't see how I wasn't justified in pushing you on this.

Your self righteousness is sticking on me (but you nommed me for a scummy how could you possibly vote for me?!!) I don't like your reactions during being run up, and your posts since have been tainted with OMGUS. I hate to say it, but until you pull your head out of your ass and take an objective look at your wagon I can't take you seriously. You can't just paint those who dare ran you up as scum without any real solid logic.

I'd also like to know why you think Nikanor is town.

= = = = = =

I decided to switch to Nikanor because basically of what Locke pointed out. His first post ignores legit discussion that is going on completely. He makes a set up speculation statement as far as the night talk goes that I'm not really sure had any real point.

His next post represents his vote on Jason as serious all along. Building a case but not actually asking Jason any questions. Doesn't look like real scum hunting, more taking advantage of a players scummish play style. He makes no elaboration on why Jason is “obv scum” and like I commented earlier, seemed to be piggy backing on Elmo's pressure.

He does get a little better as the game progresses but I quite like my vote right now. Dry-fit would be a good second choice.

Other players I am looking at:

Red is a little off. The vote on Jason is terribad as I detialed in my last post. Looking for more of an explanation from him ASAP.
IKD seems tentative. His questioning Nik on his claim looks weird without a vote.
Mina. I have a love hate relationship with her right now. Some of her stuff is great, some sets my gut twitching. Probably need to see more before I can decide.

Locke and KaleiÐoscøpe are my biggest town reads at this point.

[Sotty7]

Jason was talking about Nikanor lying about the role cop right? There is no slip there.

Why don't you buy the perfectly plausible explanation?

[Sotty7]

I wasn't ragging on you for not knowing the set up furc. I agree not knowing the set up is null, the fact people seem to be voting Jason because of this while ignoring you and IKD who did the same thing is just strange.

[Sotty7]

Hrmm.

Still don't like IAI.

Don't agree with Percy and his harsh judgment on me. I think it has a lot to do with him and his love for RVS so I am willing to let it pass. The rest of his posting is good though.

I could move over to Red. Going to wait to see how he responds first though.

Can people tell me if this is normal with RedCoyote?

It's not. That's the problem.

[Sotty7]

Sotty, stop ignoring me. I posted right before you did, so don't tell me you didn't see it.

Don't worry Nik I'm not ignoring you I'm just not believing your explanations. Your vote on Jason is easy and pretty weak considering the situation and I don't feel inclined to move my vote off you because of it.

I see your follow up to Jason in post 169 but you should know that being defensive isn't a scum tell.... So what?

Let me put it this way. jason was being voted by just Nikanor at that point if I remember correctly. That would mean he was at, what, L-7? The game just started. Even if he didn't think the setup was Mountainous, why did he feel compelled to immediately vote him in response? Why did he skip my post? Why the "you are lying!", then, "oh, I see now you are lying". It doesn't sound right. There's too much going on here to sound real.

What would you expect him to do then for it to seem real?

The fact you threw in a dig on a player who you later state is probably a townie doesn't make you look good. I stated that I felt your direct question to benmage was more than a little bitter sounding

Wait, IAI said you were townie? Do you have this post? I don't remember this.

Either I wasn't very clear or your misreading. I was talking to IAI about benmage.

IAI said benmage made scummy plans
I said “why don't you vote him then”
IAI calls ben a townie.

In that order.

What happened to the Nikanor wagon?

[Sotty7]

I'm not interested in lynching either furc or Jason today.

Benmage, what are you exactly trying to say with post 227?

My vote on jason has never been easy or weak. I've been pushing this bloody wagon uphill all the way. I've been pointing out everything that points to jasonscum since his first serious post of the day. My vote is not weak.

It's easy and weak in my eyes because I have played a bunch of games with Jason. This is how he fails as a townie, he acts before he thinks. As scum he is much more calm and controlled. I don't agree anything he has done today is obv scum at all.

If we are going to unitize both lynches today we probably want to start moving towards that first lynch sooner rather than later. I'm thinking about what to do with my vote, but it is likely to move over to Red depending on the vote count.

[Sotty7]

Mina, I have a town read on Locke because I have agreed with everything he has posted so far. Simple really.

My read on KaleiÐoscøpe is from this post. I just think scum in that position wouldn't have pointed that out or at least they would have let the case boil over some more before then did. Of course this is more reliant on my JasonTown read than anything else.

[Sotty7]

As someone who knows Jason on a personal level, this V/LA is real. He's going to watch the 49ers play in London.

[Sotty7]

I've been saying for awhile now that I think he is town. He has a tendency to get into trouble like this because he tends to play on emotions and will just knee jerk to everything. As scum he is much more composed.

[Sotty7]

IAI you realize that Nikanor brought that subject up right? I just believed that scum would have day talk in a double lynch game, but I'm not much of a set up person. Benmage brings up a good point, also I don't think town have won a mountainous game on these boards. I have recently been though a stretch where I had been scum a lot and I wasn't enjoying it as much as I used to, hence the "cry" part. But 3 scum v 13 townies doesn't sound like a fun time to me. I also told Zach that if he made me scum he better give me day talk or I would punch him. Of course he didn't say what he was going to do, but I'm not scum but I don't have to worry about it.

Why don't you buy the perfectly plausible explanation?

and post so I see he is lying. meaning he just admitted to lying.

This is not an intuitive thought process at all.

You realize that this still doesn't answer the question right?

Why

isn't it an intuitive thought process?

[Sotty7]

Benmage, what are you exactly trying to say with post 227?

It looks like RC specifically says he doesn't think IAI is town. However he than goes to right off mine and IAI's exchange as town v town.

Umm... I don't think so. Red was commenting that IAI isn't a wasted slot/town NOOB like you said. I think your twisting here.

I'm also not following your case on Percy. Like at all.

[Sotty7]

It's easy and weak in my eyes because I have played a bunch of games with Jason. This is how he fails as a townie, he acts before he thinks. As scum he is much more calm and controlled. I don't agree anything he has done today is obv scum at all.

My vote is easy and weak because the meta you have after playing with jason offsite for years points to jason being town. Craplogick more.

How is this crap logic?

You have done absolutely nothing to convince me or anyone Jason is scum. Your initial case is weak:

What made you come to that conclusion based on that quoted statement? I would think scum have day talk.

It says night talk, and the only modifier to the usual unlimited night talk that I can think of is limited night talk. Where are you getting day talk from?

On the Double Day page, Cell F16, it shows 39.04% winning pct. That is the exact number I got if we use all our lynches (39/61). Nik this is far from 50/50...

I guess I should have double-checked the numbers myself, but I could have sworn I told Zach exactly how many people to use.

Very anti-town behavior here. If you have nothing to hide, you would supply this information willingly.

"You would" means you think he has something to hide. You stated earlier that you thought Benmage was town. This is scummy.

This is random. Nikanor, why are you only asking Locke this? And what do you expect to learn about his alignment from his answer?

Locke and I *used to* have a perfect win record when we were on the same team (which I believe has happened every game so far). Basically, I asked him his alignment.

The jasonwagonofone needs more love. This is just terrible, and this combined with jason's attacks on IAI makes jason obvscum. More votes over here please.

One last question. Elmo, would you consider yourself a gut player?

You don't explain why those two posts are bad or why they make him obv scum. You spend more effort addressing others than you do trying to be convincing about this “case”. It's tacked on and bad. Feel free to redeem yourself a little though by explaining

why

this is scummy.

You then claim day cop. Is this supposed to convince people to join? Calls for more people to join, but no effort to build your case beyond post 117. It's like you want a wagon but don't even believe in it yourself.

You really aint made much of a case though, you have mentioned me really mostly in passing

What.

The way Elmo said it.. it sounded like he already knew allignment with the pretty obiviously mistaken if they think they are scum comment.

So Elmo is scummy because you think he called Benmage and IAI obviously town, but now that he has corrected his meaning, you don't find that scummy any more. So really, you're only voting Elmo for buddying up to IAI, another person who you find scummy.

I stand by my post in 98.. I feel they are valid points.

my 'attacks' on IAI as you say I feel are valid, he spent more time leading direction away from sdcum hunting and towards facts and figures etc. I feel that is anti-town as taking away from scum hunting only helps scum.

The point I was trying to make is that you're attacking Elmo for buddying someone who you've stated is scummy. That doesn't make any sense from a town perspective, because not only is buddying a weak tell, but it shouldn't take precedence over the things you've said about IAI.

Elmo, do you think that jason is scummy?

We should probably try to lynch somebody within the next six days if we're to leave ourselves enough time to fully discuss our second lynch. That's not a lot of time. I'd really like a jason lynch, so hop to it.

Finally a little expansion, but none of these points are compelling. You are hanging onto Jason and I don't see the reasons why.

I still think that jason is scum, but Sotty's defense of jason is making me uneasy.

I find Sotty scummy for her crappy reasoning for her vote on me and the fact that she hasn't moved her vote to a bigger wagon yet, despite saying that she wants a lynch within the next couple of days.

Two things.

1: Why am I scummy for defending Jason when you seemed to like Elmo defenses of IAI earlier in the thread?

2: Why is the bold scummy to you when you have done essentially the same thing? This is your second attempt to move my vote off you. I don't get the desperation.

[Sotty7]

I get that we probably won't be lynching Nikanor today (grr) so expect my vote to move towards one of Dry fit or Red by the end of the weekend at the latest. I'll be honest, it's a toss up between those two for me. Both have horrible votes on Jason, both have been non committal (probably more Dry Fit than Red here). I'm leaning towards Red right now though. I will look though both ISOs before I leap.

[Sotty7]

IAI:

What is so troublesome about my Jason defense?

OMGUS by Percy looks all too appropriate, wouldn't you say.

Not really. Your case was awful, it pushed you up my list by leaps and bounds.

...but he said he didn't understand the wagon on me. Explain, please.

Okay, all but one thing. To be explicit I agree with:

-His Nikanor vote
-His evaluation of IAI
-His statement that Jason's slip was blown up
-Jason looking lost
-His top three suspects (Dry-Fit, Nikanor and Benmage)

And on that note,

Unvote, vote: Dry-Fit

Red's last post is more the Red I remember so I am willing to look another way for now. Dry fit's back door wagon vote on Jason is still grating on me. I also don't like his refusal to explain more indepth why he didn't like Jason's reaction.

[Sotty7]

Welcome new people.

I don't have much to say right now, kinda waiting on the new input as well as Dry-fit's when he gets some time.

[Sotty7]

I dare you to attempt to identify my case. Go ahead, bullet it for me.

It's damn hard to make any sense out of it, but I gather it is because Percy gave you grief for forgetting something and didn't comment on other people who forgot? I looked though your ISO for the start but I couldn't see it. Break it down for me because what I see right now isn't very good at all.

= = = = = =

That's a hell of a wagon for RVS, and everyone following such a stupid reason to vote. (Ok, a reasonable RVS reason but not to 5 votes) (6 if you count Furcolow) Definately something hinky here and I dare say, There's scum on that there wagon

What would have been a reasonable number for this wagon in RVS then?

?? Open setup, mod only refers to night talk. Why would you think that the scum have daytalk?

I explained this in post 258

Nikanor's comment is hinky but so is yours.
Though since it's mentioned, requirements makes it sound like the scum team have to do somerthing re night talk.

lol

So... It's scummy that we both talked about it. But you will comment on it anyway?

Really?

= = = = =

Can we get a prod on Nikanor please?

[Sotty7]

Jason, give me your strongest scum and town reads in your next post. Just a couple will do, reasons why not expected but welcome.

[Sotty7]

I agree with IAI's 371 100%. Moot now that furc put his vote back though.

@Furc, this is a smallish game with no night phase.

There is a night. It's a double lynch mechanic not a no night one.

I'm not convinced about a furc lynch at this point. I would say his swaying on Dry Fit is the scummiest thing he has done, but the rest of it does look like townfurc to me. I will have to check out a scum game of his to compare. I think he is a distraction.

Hi Fitz....

[Sotty7]

I have a headache so brief posting will be brief. I'll be back later with actual substance... I hope.

Anyway I kinda want to revote Nikanor again, he is still scummy. However Percy and Red both look awful in light of the Dry fit flip. I'm going to have to look back and see where I stand on all that.

But yeah I'll be back later with actual content.

[Sotty7]

I remember Jason, but I'd like to think Mafiascum has a higher level of play than on our old board. Otherwise we could just lynch Nikanor then Babyspice and it would be game over.

What's your opinion on Percy and Red at this point?

I'm going to do some reading and get a vote out there by the end of the weekend.

[Sotty7]

Considering how haaaaard it was to lynch Dry Fit I am weary of the Percy wagon because of it's speed. Yeah deadline is somewhat near, but I dunno it feels off to me. I have to catch up in another game this morning when that is done I hope to do some reading here. For now however

Vote: Red

[Sotty7]

Sotty and IAI are particularly interesting, because they both practiced a in a bit of a slap fight throughout the game.

Slap fight? This sounds like you are playing down the opening exchange I had with IAI in an effort to make it look scummy. Just come out and break down what you find scummy about it, these kind of subtle jabs don't look good.

Sotty comes up not too long after, and interestingly she mentions that Dry-fit is her second biggest suspect and that Locke and Kscope are her best town reads. This is almost too coincidental. She was alone on the Nikanor wagon. She was backing up the Dry-fit wagon, and she thought the two most recent proponents of the wagon were her biggest town reads. I think I took issue with this at the time, but I never followed up on it. Locke and Kscope had given very few posts and opinions up to this point. Kscope in particular had been tight-lipped. For Sotty to claim them both as her biggest town reads is suspect just due to the fact that they weren't very active (nevermind that they both happened to be right in their Dry-fit suspicions).

I explained both my town reads on KScope and Locke, do you have an actual issue with what I stated? Kinda sounds like you do but you never challenged me apart from pointing out Locke not getting your wagon. I don't see anything you list here as scummy and unless you break it down it is looking a lot like mud slinging.

You need to go into detail

why

this is scummy. It's all very vague and by default, weak and scummy.

I'll say now Jason and Locke are now my two biggest town reads. Wanna fight them too?

= = = = = =

Think I said hinky not scummy btw.

Wishy washy language is wishy washy.

(That means I find it scummy btw)

Your vote is on benmage who was a big force behind the Dry-Fit lynch, what is your case on him? Why was Jason's reason to hammer so poor? Why no comment on Nik's vote on you?


= = = = =

This is a great post. The only way it would be any better was if IAI's vote was on Nikanor instead of Percy but I will deal.

I agree that IKD's reaction to Nikanor's claim is suspect. That pushes Lrdwhyt higher up my scum list, but I would really like to see more from him. Red, Nikanor, Baby Spice are my other scum reads at this point. Percy's plea post happening soon after Red's trips an alarm in my mind, but I still have a more of gut town read on him. I understand his suspicions on me for example, while Red's are awful. I do need to look closer at the whole scum list issue that has been put out there. But my initial reaction was 100 posts happened between those two Percy posts, not sure if it is as damning as people want to say.

I'm happy enough to keep my vote on Red, but I need to review some more.

EDIT BY WAY OF PREVIEW: I see Fitz has made a post, I'll give it a read in a mo.

[Sotty7]

I think my main suspect att is Sotty (Hi Sotty! ). Main reason as I finished my read was due to gut. I don’t know her suspicions towards Nik and her willingness to come off IAI’s wagon after he freaked out. Her comments regarding scum being able to talk during the day seemed off to me coupled with saying she had discussed day talk with the mod. I don’t guess that is a scum tell but it just doesn’t sit right with me. In 281 she laments that she will probably be moving her vote off Nik to DF or RC. She says,

I'll be honest, it's a toss up between those two for me. Both have horrible votes on Jason, both have been non committal (probably more Dry Fit than Red here). I'm leaning towards Red right now though. I will look though both ISOs before I leap.

Also...not sure why she is voting RC atm. She never voted RC in phase 1 and in fact made a decent case on his behalf when deciding to join the DF wagon vs the RC wagon. That said...if Sotty was scum (and Percy wasn’t) if would be easy for her to add to the momentum that is the Percy wagon.

I'll admit my vote on Red in this phase was more of a gut reaction as I mentioned in early posts. Combine that with just not liking the Percy wagon and you get my Red vote. My top scum read is Nikanor and his lurking just cements that. Baby Spice is looking bad as well as I mention above

Red is my comprise scum read. In that my gut says he is scum and he is one of the leading wagons so that's where my vote is going. Deadline votes are bad and I think we can both agree on that. I don't understand why Red flipping town would implicate me at all, you are going to have to elaborate there.

I'd also like to know why me unvoting IAI is scummy to you.

You should probably know I am married to the mod, that might explain that post a little better. As to why I would be talking to the mod pregame anyway. I'm going to agree I probably shouldn't have brought it up, but when Nikanor mentioned it my scumdar twinged so I engaged him about it.

What do you think of my case on Nikanor?

[Sotty7]

Hey Sotty, fancy joining me on the Baby Spice wagon? Is your read on Baby Spice less of a "compromise" than Red?

I could do a BabySpice wagon. Nikanor is my number one with a freaking bullet but BabySpice isn't a bad alternative. They are both higher than Red.

END OF POST EDIT: I had moved my vote right away to Babyspice, but after seeing Red's post on me I have decided to keep my vote there.

@Sotty

: Do you think Nikanor is more or less likely to be scum, given Dry-fit's flip? Or is he independently scummy?

I think he is independently scummy at this point. I have recently burnt my book of associative tells having seen scum and been scum that exploits that way too easily. True there is little interaction between Nik and Dry-Fit but the same could be said of Mina, Kscope and Lrdwhyt.

= = = = = =

I think we should be lynching someone off the wagon, but I'm not sure precisely how we narrowed it down to these two. Like, no-one has brought up Mina or Nikanor yet, and I don't know why. But right now, I'm not really motivated to find out when no-one's looking to change my mind, either.

Come on, I have been talking about Nik nearly all game. Babyspice was also off wagon, not interested in her?

= = = = =

Fair enough, but given that it's loaded with most of your "biggest town reads", shouldn't that console you?

It does a little. But I'm not about to follow my town reads off a cliff just because they do either.

I am still curious as to why IAI has seemingly dropped you from his radar, but all in all I don't really think there's anything sinister between you and him anymore.

Fair enough. I have been watching IAI and his suspicions of me do seemed to have lessened as the game has gone on. Feels natural to me, but I could be suffering from some bias here too.

I did as you asked. I went back and read over your posts. I found that you talked with Locke about IAI and realized that y'all both have similar opinions toward him. You also answered a question he asked about Nikanor, and... that's it. No mention of Kscope whatsoever. I think you're being dishonest here, Sotty. Either you're being dishonest in saying that you actually had explained why Kscope and Locke were your town reads, or you're being dishonest on account of the original accusation I made.

You might want to check that again before you accuse me of being dishonest

The Kscope read had a lot to do with timing. Momentum was building towards Jason, he was kinda melting down and would have been a perfect scum myslynch candidate. KScope coming out at that time with that post really screamed town to me. I'll agree he needs to post more, and is part of the reason he has slipped down my town list, but that one post is really townie to me and he hasn't done anything to make me question that read.

You ask why this is scummy. The original premise of my post was to put myself in the shoes of a teammate of Dry-fit, remember? I propose that a teammate would've wanted to attempt at destroying the Dry-fit wagon before it got started. Despite how bad this makes me look, I think that you, Percy, and, to an extent, Fur, all look worse. What better way to destroy the Dry-fit wagon and keep yourself clean than to say that Locke and Kscope are your biggest townies reads (despite saying very little about one player andnothing about the other at that point), and claiming that Dry-fit is your second biggest scum read (but without going into depth about why and instead favoring to push Nikanor). Worse still, I don't think Nikanor is even a very great suspect.

See, this makes no sense to me. How does calling out my two biggest town reads hurt the Dry-Fit wagon? I also voted Dry Fit in the end which is more than you did, so your stance that it makes me look worse is pretty ridiculous.

Feel free to explain why Nikanor isn't a good suspect, on top of my case he is lurking right now. There is little to nothing positive about his play. I find him very scummy.

In essence, you are reaching here. Your reasons for suspecting me are bogus and certainly don't feel well intentioned.

= = = = = = =

Okay, what do you mean by "suspect"? What exactly about IKD's reaction makes you think he's scum?

I questioned IKD in this post about it but he replaced out

My thinking is this: If IKD didn't know this was a mountainous game AND believed the Nikanor claim like his post suggested then he should have straight voted Jason or at least given an opinion on the possibility of Jason being scum. Instead he just questions the claim, it doesn't feel like a townie thought process at all.

This has nothing to do with

my

town read on Jason, but IKD's read on the situation.

= = = = = =

1. So despite giving RC props earlier in the game and voicing no real suspicions that I can see earlier in the game, you drop a vote on RC because you don’t like the Percy wagon. The problem I have with this is that you voice suspicions on Baby Spice who at the time you put a vote on RC....had the same size wagon. So why would you put a vote on someone you gave credit to when you could have put the same exact vote down on someone you suspect?

Mostly because I felt there was more Red support than BabySpice at that time. Also Nikanor is on the Bayspice wagon. I don't know if it is a horrid bus or what, but he's there and I don't know why.

2. See 1. As for why RC flipping town would implicate you...I think you stand a good chance at being scum, but based on my RC ISO I do not think both of you are. So if RC was town it would not eliminate my read on you whereas if he flipped scum, IMO it would clear you.

Ugh... this doesn't answer my question. I don't understand the premise you have formed based on “it's you or Red” From what I have seen of your case on me, it looks like we are both independently scummy of the other. So this hardline stance just looks poor and is a possibility of you lining up lynches.

3. You had reasons for voting IAI (ie it was not a RV) and after he does something which IMO is very suspect you unvote him (post 97) and drop a vote on Nikanor without any rationale. Then you keep your vote on Nik...while not giving any reasoning up thru at least post 180 where you continue to grill IAI (who you just unvoted after his ridiculous self vote). Then right before providing your rationale for your Nik vote you prompt IAI for his reasons for thinking Nik is town. And oh BTW...IAI (who you have unvoted) is also suspicious of jason....which seems to be the bulk of your case against nik (that is his suspicions towards jason).

I detailed my reasons why I found IAI to be likely town, if you disagree there is little I can do about that. Being too hard and stubborn in my reads has lead to bad things, I am trying to be more flexible and fluid these days. Yeah it has bitten me in the ass (as you have witnessed), but I still think being able to change your mind on a dime is much more useful for hunting scum because it disrupts the flow of the game for them.

As to your point four I suppose that's fair enough. If enough people feel this way I can replace out. I don't play the game to cheat but I am not willing to comprise the game just by being here. For the record I felt Nikanor bringing that up in the first place as scummy. There was no need to talk about that but he went out of his way to do so. I think it was an attempt to gain some town cred to suggest he had no idea about the scum day talking. He is more than smart enough to lay that kind of ground work.

How is post 437 a great post? Because he lists Nik as one of his top two? Is that the only reason? I don’t really see anything great about it. Was it the part where he expresses suspicions towards Baby spice (who you refrained from putting a vote on in favor of RC)?

It's great because he brings up something I was going to post. Why didn't Babyspice vote for Dry-Fit? This is an important question.

[Sotty7]

I am tempted by a promised Babyspice wagon but Red is looking worse and worse to me. I don't understand how people can say his posts are townie like. The only person I am willing to leave Red for now is Nikanor.

[Sotty7]

Mod, can we gat a vote count please?

[Sotty7]

The people who aren't voting need to change that in their next posts so we can see where we stand. Not voting with three days to go on the deadline is very poor.

[Sotty7]

I think he thinks he has a good case on me. I have no issue with him voting for someone he has as his number one pick as long as he is willing to comprise come deadline time. Three days is a long time.

[Sotty7]

Oooh Thor, this should be interesting. Welcome.

[Sotty7]

Red, so after this back and forth I finally get to the real reasoning of your case on me. You think I was bussing, I don't know why you didn't just say that in the first place. I'm not going to sit here and say what I would and wouldn't do as scum in that situation because it is just all WIFOM and I do have a heavy bussing past as scum.

I will say that you built your suspicion on me in a very round about way. First the IAI exchange was scummy, then it wasn't. Then my town reads were scummy and now they aren't. You rolled out a big explanation for why you think I am scummy over several posts when you could have just cut the fat and been much more direct. Your insistence that you read my ISO but missed posts and having to back away from points later just stinks of you padding your case on me.

Accusing me of “underhandedly sabotaging” Dry Fit's wagon is just ridiculous because nothing you have brought up as shown anything

close

to what you are suggesting. Your rhetoric is getting tiresome.

The longer this goes on, the scummier I find it.

= = = = = =

Wishy washy language comment is just so much ffttt! if it's scummy I call it scummy. If it's hinky I call it hinky. Hinky =/= scummy. (But it may be) 
I wonder how you can make that wishy washy language comment if you have been reading what I've been saying.

Okay, I'll play your game.

To me it looks like hinky/scummy can be interchanged, especially with the way you used it. Basically a way for you to call something scummy and then being able to back away from it while holding your hands up all innocent like.

But I'm dropping this because it's just semantics. So meh.

[Sotty7]

Errr...

I clicked in the game and saw Thor replaced in and said hello because Thor is great.
I then went back to my last post and read what I had missed since I was last here. Like I do every day.
I then processed said information into a postable format for your reading pleasure, or displeasure. Whatever floats your boat.
This was followed by me clicking on submit and said post being sent though the internet tubes to the thread.
The end.

TL:DR?

I couldn't contain my excitement over Thor's sudden appearance into the game, that I spammed the thread a little.

[Sotty7]

Jason is my BFF but still should probably take a step back now and then. That was at least the second time he said something before I could respond. I'm assuming it is because he thinks I am really townie looking.

And Fitz, agree to disagree I suppose. I don't find you scummy but I can at least understand where you are coming from with your vote on me. But the deadline is coming up, are you willing to comprise to get a lynch?

[Sotty7]

If you really think that we're getting a no lynch today then you may as well keep your vote where it is. Throwing your toys outta your pram isn't helping anyone and is preventing a last minute surge like you say.

Unofficial count at this point

Percy - 5 (RedCoyote, I Am Innocent, Locke Lamora, JasonT1981, KaleiÐoscøpe)
RedCoyote - 4 (Furcolow, Elmo, Sotty7, Fitz)
Baby Spice - 3 (Nikanor, Percy, Mina)

Anyone not voting for one of these three needs to do so now.

Lrdwhyt

that includes you. Deadline is

today

.

[Sotty7]

Oh dear, ignore that deadline is tomorrow... Still, it's sooooon!

[Sotty7]

If Red flips town, I'll look more closely at Kaleidoscope and Sotty (I like a lot of what she's doing, but a few of her stances don't feel perfectly organic, as if she's hedging her bets a bit).

Can you elaborate on this? Also your vote on Lrdwhyt as the day was dying looks really bad considering there was absolutely no chance of shifting the wagon that way. Why did you avoid taking a stance on one of the three top wagons with your vote?

I want to see Thor's thoughts on the pages he hasn't read as soon as possible.

I will probably re-read day one before I place my vote. Red's flip kinda screwed most of my reads up.

[Sotty7]

So I decided to do some ISOs on my top scum suspects (Thor665, Mina, Lrdwhyt and Baby Spice) to get my head straight.

Mina

is all over the place to me. She seems to be behind during most of the game which could be coloring my read of her. Her posts are wordy but sometimes I get the impression she is just writing words to have them there. Wall posts aren't always needed to make your point. This is probably just how she plays.

There is little interaction with Dry Fit which can be explained by the lurking I suppose. She votes Red initially for mostly gut and she follows this trend with the unvote. Things Red have said look “townie” to her. What things, I have no idea. She hops onto Babyspice which isn't a bad vote, but the lack of any real push is worrisome. It's like she is running in place.

I have already commented on how her Lrd looks bad to me. I don't know why so close to the deadline she would try and push a brand spanking new wagon. Her lack of real explanation around her Red read feels like she is just taking the backdoor out and away from that wagon. I would have thought he would be a perfect deadline vote from her.

There are moments of scum hunting in her posts, but they get drowned out by her second guessing and chasing of her own tail. I thought I might find something scummier here, but I'm just left slightly confused. I have her neutral leaning scummy now. I'd really like to see her actively playing the game today rather than always trying to catch up. I think that should help my read on her. A big positive for her in my eyes is that she does vote Baby and Lrd at differing points, both players I find scummy.

Also Mina, you said you would wait to comment on the Percy-Sotty debate before weighing in. it gave me the impression that you have something to say about it that you never shared. I'm interested in your thoughts.

= = = = = =

Lrdwhyt

starts as IKD who does little really. His RVS unvote is normal for him, town or scum. The only real thing of note is his apparent belief of Nikanor's role cop claim. What I didn't realize until now is that Lrd only placed one vote. Red's hammer. He had plenty of time to put a vote out, especially since he claimed to have read the thread in his second post.

Also in the above linked post is a case on Jason that has Lrd end with this conclusion:

After that, nothing of his struck me as particularly scummy. There are better votes than him.

I'm considering voting Dry, but I want to see him post some more first...

Really? If he isn't that scummy why spend all the post questioning him when you could have been doing something more productive? Also the tacked on Dry-Fit after thought looks like a scum buddy validating his wagon without a vote. Nice.

The rest of his posts aren't that bad really, but it is mostly him defending himself. There is a lack of any real scum hunting here. Leaning scum.

= = = = = =

Babyspice

starts off as mongoose and after a slowish start he looks townie to me with how he takes the time to explain his reads. Not hot over his Benmage vote, but otherwise good.

Baby's opening post is just all kinds of ick. The comments on IAI's random wagon are just strange to me (good RVS reasoning but too many votes WTF?) The ragging on me and Nikanor for talking about daytalk.... only for her to go on and talk about daytalk. The pushing of the “Jason” slip. Lists Dry-Fit in her scum list but ends up voting for Benmage. More likely scum buddy distancing here.

Wishy washy language is scummy and I don't buy the later explanation. I'm also not understanding the continued push on benmage after Dry's lynch. Does scumDry completely clear benmage, no not 100%, but he is looking pretty damn townie right now. The case makes no sense.

She basically comes in and destroys my town read of mongose. Likely scum

= = = = = =

I'm waiting for Thor to be caught up with the rest of us. I want to agree with IAI that his Red vote was opportunistic but we were looking for a lynch that day so... Eh.

After doing some reading I have down graded my early day read of Mina leaving me with Lrd + Babyspice/Thor for the scum team.

Vote: Lrd

I'm going to read the posts since my last one, but on first skim the Percy benmage back and forth looks... Uninviting. To put it politely.

[Sotty7]

So let's recap. Nikanor's vote is stuck, he replaces out, Thor comes in, and does what any good scum should do around a deadline. Play the wait and see card...

Wagon leaves his teammate, takes off on the townie. Gives the ol' UNVOTE Whoever I'm voting, hahaha, and vote RC, despite only reading 9 pages. My vote can be bought tho, cause I like the attention, hahahaha. (not funny by the way).

I might be able to swallow this narrative if you can sell me on the Percy case. You just lumped your vote back on him today with no elaboration. Change that?

Okay there wasn't too much that I skimmed. Neither Percy nor benmage are very moving. They just look like a couple of squabbling kids and the tone of their posts makes me not want to bother read them in all honestly.

Percy stop calling benmage Hannity . I get the lol factor, but it is pretty disrespectful when you do it constantly. I mean Hannity is a big freaking prick, it's like you are constantly calling him the *C* word. Also VI is being over used in this thread, the shear repitition just decreases the actual weight of the "insult" after time. It's getting more than a little ridiculous.

But enough of my rants, benmage, if you case on Percy is so epic why aren't you trying to sell everyone on it? Calling people idiots isn't going to make them abandon what they are doing and follow you. Lay out your points on Percy and lets get some scum hunting going eh?

I need to review Percy myself, but I will do that later. Percy v benmage puts me off from that. I also want to review Elmo and possibly KScope but I am feeling happy with my vote.

[Sotty7]

Jason, I have seen town and scum do that before. There is more to a Babyspice case than her thoughts on Percy.

I'd rather not scum hunt solely on associative tells Locke. I'm only going to vote someone if I find them scummy, not for "information"

[Sotty7]

Anyone who's ever played a single game with me as either alignment can corroborate that verboseness is a null tell from me. I just overthink and overexplain everything. But I'll try to tone it down if it's making my posts unpleasant to read.

I have played with plenty of verbose players before, if this your meta I will deal. I also think my impression was influenced by you being seemingly always behind. You didn't look very proactive.

But that said, might as well explain my thought process yesterday, even though this is essentially just trying to articulate gut vibes.

See this is another thing that eats at me. Your case on Red was on gut as well right? I don't think I have ever seen such a wordy gut based player before. Normally the people who post walls (which I can be guilty of sometimes) are more logical players. I dunno, it's strange to me.

My first instinct was that your behaviour wrt Red fit with what I'd expect from scum subtly supporting a mislynch: not very aggressive, not much conviction in his guilt, but still unwilling to give him the benefit of the doubt. IIRC, you didn't find him suspicious until others did. Your heart didn't really seem into the Red Coyote case even as you consistently joined his wagon, and you suspected Nikanor and Baby Spice more

Expression of willingness to join Oso in voting Red
More wondering about Red with Oso
Wanting to cut Red some slack but not really sure if I should.
Questioning Red on him trying to sell defensiveness as a scum tell
And so on...

You recall wrongly. I was right there with you at the start saying that Red wasn't the normal Red I have played with before. My gut was tweaked on him, I just believed I had stronger case on Nikanor at this point. Plus he did improve slightly as the game went on but that didn't completely negate the vote on me, which was proved false, the awkward push on Jason for being over defensive. Red then went on to backtrack/lie with his case on me. He misrepped the exchange with IAI as a slap fight which he recanted once I pushed him. He also tried to claim I never explained my town reads when I had.

It all built up to a point where I was sure he would flip scum. Simply because, in my mind he had lied so many times. The town flip was such a surprise it made me backtrack and rethink. On review I still think I was right and he was wrong, but that doesn't really help us at all. I'm sure up in townie heaven Red still thinks he was right. I am more than willing to give people the benefit of the doubt when the situation arises, I have done so with IAI and Percy already in this game as an example. But when someone constantly fabricates things to make their case look better... I don't see how or why I should have given that the benefit. It was cumulative.

I also agree with the late Red Coyote that the timing of your Dry-Fit suspicions/vote would fit as bussing, and that Nikanor was an easy target. Speaking of which, why did you vote Red Coyote a week before the deadline, rather than push Baby Spice or Nikanor? Also, you mention being tempted by a BS wagon if it took off, IIRC. Why didn't you move to Baby Spice, particularly when there were three votes on her?

I believe I have already answered this question

In a nutshell, I felt there was more support for a Red wagon at the time of my vote. I went with my gut and once Baby truly became viable, Red had already lied several times about his case on me. He rose above Babyspice.

But I got the "hedging your bets" vibe again after that. You unvoted after IAI's fit, but then you kept on engaging with him and bickering with him--which doesn't make much sense for someone you think is town. I got the impression you were trying to make him look scummy even while you paid lip service to his being town.

Checking your ISO, I see that you were defending yourself from his case on you, so that impression probably wasn't fair.

Fair enough. He kept bringing me up so I kept defending myself/engaging him. Just because I unvoted him doesn't mean I'm gonna ignore him.

Sotty, did you notice that my vote had been on Baby Spice, and that I'd expressed a willingness to hammer RC, when you said that it "looks bad"? In that case, are you saying that the townish move would have been to have left my vote on Baby Spice or to have hammered Red prematurely, just to show that I'm an uber-decisive stance-taker?

At the time of my first post of today I had forgotten about your Babyspice vote. I do think, if you had as strong a gut reaction to Red's early play you would have wanted to hammer him over start a fresh wagon. I'd think you'd want to know his alignment. Your unvote of him didn't seem very detailed to me. It was like a weak hop off the wagon.

Your explanation is plausible however and does make me feel better about you.

What reads of yours were dependent on Red being scum?

It wasn't that all my reads where dependent on him, it just that I think I was locked on there, tunneling a bit. If that was the case there is a chance I was ignoring other things I should have been considering. It was more I needed a fresh take on things with the knowledge Red was town and work from there.

[Sotty7]

Benmage is still arrogant scum, nothing changed there. Seriously 'confirmed' in this game means you're dead and flipped. Claiming otherwise is scum trying to make themselves into a white knight and lead the town to a loss.

No.

Sotty, Mina. You both seem to be having a go at each other, but are both voting the same player. It makes me think that one of you is faking the discussion/arguement, which is scummy, whilst buddying up to them, which is also scummy. Or that one of you is bussing hard and trying to use the other as cover.

Vote Lrdwhyt

This paragraph and vote do not match with each other. I can't speak with Mina but I like to engage my suspects to figure out better if they are town or scum. Ftr, right now I am starting to lean towards Mina town which is an almost 180 from my position at the start of the day.

Your reasoning is bizarre and what makes it even worse is that you

join

the wagon myself and Mina are on. WTF?

Unvote, Vote: Babyspice

= = = = = =

Locke and Sotty are accurate in that Percy is the most logical lynch choice for today.

Yeah, I didn't say that.

I do support your call for a first lynch deadline though

= = = = =

Off-topic Mafia theory ramble that everyone can feel free to skip:

I get where you are coming from and I think we could probably talk about this a lot more, but it isn't really game relevant any more, for me anyway. I'll just say, I'm glad you are playing a more current game today and leave it at that.

Does "slap fight" have a negative connotation on this site that I'm missing? I just read it as a colourful synonym for "back-and-forth" or "kerfuffle" or or "clash"--which, um, was pretty much what your [BLANK] with IAI was. It seemed weird to me that you assumed he was mischaracterizing you.

In my mind, slap fight means a fake or staged fight that shows no real desired aggression from either side. Basically two people weakly failing to make it look like a fight. It would be something scum could say to subtly discredit a legit argument/discussion. When I called Red on this he backed away right away agreeing with my assessment that it wasn't a slap fight.

EBWOPreview: And hilariously, I may have given more fodder to Baby Spice's theory that Sotty and I are...um, I dunno. Are we distancing? Is one of us trying to appease the other by voting for her suspect so as to say, "See? See? Don't pressure me because I like your suspect!" And yet...because one of us must be scum, that absolutely makes Lrdwhyt even more likely to be scum because...because...I dunno, everyone knows scum are more likely to vote for their buddies over another viable wagon even when they can't afford to bus?

Okay, I should be happy that you're voting Lrdwhyt, but obvious badly-justified opportunistic wagon hop is obvious.

You should totally come join me on Babyspice now.

I'm deadly serious.

= = = = =

@Sotty7

: I think Benmage's rhetoric is indistinguishable from that employed by Hannity. However, I had no idea that calling someone Hannity is as bad as calling them a c*nt, so I'll ease off

I guess I just REALLY hate Hannity But thanks, I appreciate you not doing it anymore.

Sotty's case against Lrd is similar to mine. I agree with each point (especially the hesitance over voting DF), but I still think Baby Spice is worse.

Time to follow this up with a Babyspice vote I think.

= = = = = =

Okay so as I was reading I see the Lrd wagon got beefed up. I'm still happy with my switch to Baby at this point, her comments + vote were just... Wow.. Tipped her over the edge for me anyway.

I will happily lynch both Lrd and Babyspice today. Lrd's next post needs to contain some scum hunting and Baby needs to explain her Lrd vote. If people would rather Lrd goes first, I will move my vote back.

I still need to read Percy v ben in greater detail, but I'm too hungry to do that now. So hopefully I'll get to that later today.

Hooray for being caught up in all my games again!

[Sotty7]

I think this game is suffering from VI fever, when really there are very few, if any VI's playing.

I see no reason to attribute Babyspice's actions as VI over scummy. But as I think your question over, I guess I have no hardened reasoning why. I find her moves scummy and not stupid.

[Sotty7]

Your reasoning is bizarre and what makes it even worse is that you join the wagon myself and Mina are on. WTF?

To see if either you or Mina decided to jump off of LrdWhyt and vote for me.

No really, why did you do that?

[Sotty7]

Hey Sotty. try reading the rest of my post that you quoted from where I answer your question.

Then answer this question. Why did you jump off of a wagon you started when it hit L-1?

I read it and found it ridiculous. Am I scummy for voting you or what? You post only talked about me staying on the wagon.

I didn't know the Lrd wagon was at lynch-1 as the vote count was wrong. I also said the Lrd wagon got beefed up but there was no knowledge of lynch-1 vote.

= = = = = =

Another thing that's bothering me is that open, all-vanilla setups are, by a long way, the best kind to bus in. I don't want to start the conspiracy theories too early, but I would actually like to hear from everyone what they think about the possibility of Dry being bussed by at least one buddy.

It's possible, I'm not willing to rule anything out at this point. Bussing tends to be over used as a tell from what I have seen. My new approach is not to be too quick to write someone off just for being on a scum wagon. If a player is scummy but voted for a scum lynch I won't give them too much credit for it.

= = = = = =

On first read Mina's case+vote on Elmo does look pretty good. I'm interested to see a response.

IAI's attack on Thor is yummy to me, I really like the pressure. IAI, what shady players have voted for Babyspice?

And yeah, I know I have been slightly slacking in this game. I'm on a bit of a mafia downswing these days. I'm trying to power though it.

[Sotty7]

Benmage is right, this stalling is wasting time for Phase 2 of Day 2

.

You realize this is a week away right? Who is stalling?

What is this super town tell though BS... you keep decalring town town town, but ignore questions asking what your town read is

Those aren't the only questions she is ignoring. She votes me while ignoring the questions both myself and Mina asked her. It's ridiculous and scummy.

[Sotty7]

Sotty, what questions? I believe the only one was did I find your vote scummy, and I think me calling you my top scumspect kind of answered that. But le me make this clear.

Sotty7's unvote of Lrdwhyt and vote of me was scummy, scummy, scummy! It reaked of sotty panic jumping off of a bus she had started.
Nothing here that I've said is new, except for repeating scummy a few times, so when Sotty asked her question I had already answered it. Again.

You obviously don't know me very well. If I decide to buss my partner, I stick to it. I won't lie, as scum I bus often and bus HARD. Just check out my wiki, Gonzo mafia and Tubby's open game at Warren state hospital are two very big examples.

IF Lrd was my buddy and I was on the wagon ON THE GROUND FLOOR, there is no way... No way I would unvote.

“Oh but Sotty, you jumped off your so called buddy because if you lynched him you'd be all alone. You panicked!”

Let me once again reference Gonzo mafia. I lost both my buddies on back to back days (one and two) while in the middle of it having no night. To to push some bullshit that I panicked in this situation is stupid. I've been there, done that and won a game pulling that move before. To compare the two situations scum are in a better position in this game than I was at the end of day two in Gonzo.

Baby you ignored what I wrote, just because you vote me doesn't answer all my questions. You replied to my vote with situations that only involved me staying on the Lrd wagon. You never even addressed my vote on you accept to OMGUS it.

Your case on me is “your Lrd's buddy” if that is the case you should be lynching him first NOT me. Unless you want to make a case?

As for the unvoting while he was at lynch -1 I repeat again the vote count was wrong, I had no clue he was at lynch -1. You do seem desperate for me to put my vote back on Lrd even though you won't vote him yourself. I'm not sure I understand why that is seeing as, according to you, the only way I can be scum is if he is.

= = = = = = =

I think Baby Spice's behaviour looks quite like jason's in certain respect. If you look at how she's arguing with Benmage, I think that's a least a significant contributor to what she's saying; she certianly seems the type to wear her emotions on her sleeve in a way similar to what Sotty described. I would have thought that, seeing what happened with jason, she might be slower to attack someone who displayed similar behaviour. In the quoted post, she appears to be voting BS largely for bad logic, which I believe is probably null.

No, I'm voting Babyspice for pushing scummy logic. Jason's slip wasn't a slip and therefore

wasn't

scummy.

There is no parallel. Try again.

Also extremely unimpressed that you are also pairing me with Lrd like your BFF Baby. But at least your voting the right way round unlike Babyspice.

= = = = =

Lrd's vote on Elmo is awful it does not count as scum hunting. Benmage's push on him is good in that respect.

My love for Locke is strong in this game.

Jason is getting lurky. He should fix that by coming back and voting for Babyspice.

[Sotty7]

Oh, Jason is already voting for Baby.... So umm... Ignore that. But he should still come back and play the game. Lurking isn't cool.

Same can be said for Percy. I'd like to see some input from him soon.

[Sotty7]

Percy and I are the two most experienced people here, true or false?

False. Hi.

Also, hammer time.

[Sotty7]

I think he is sulking because we aren't lynching Percy.

[Sotty7]

Considering that this lynch doesn't end the day I am not seeing the reason to panic. Unless of course, you are completely convinced that Baby is town.

Mina you mentioned earlier that you doubt that Baby and Lrd are buddies, why is that?

[Sotty7]

Percy and I are the two most experienced people here, true or false?

False. Hi.

Also, hammer time.

Damnit Sotty…that’s what I get for posting from my phone. Why have we never played together?

Last man standing?

I don't blame you for not remembering, I was killed night one before I could shoot anyone in the face My biggest mafia regret to this day.

= = = = =

Yo Baby! Percy unvoted you when you were at lynch -1, using your logic that makes him your buddy right? Oh wait, it's not scummy at all? You don't even mention it once?

Hrmm...

= = = = =

Mina, after reading post 812 I was ready to fall in mafia love with you. But you ruin a good thing with post 813. Broke my heart...

@Sotty: My reason was that Baby Spice put the third vote on LrdWhyt I

suppose

I could concoct a conspiracy theory in which she was bussing LrdWhyt and preemptively setting one of us up as his buddy, but it just looked really weird and convoluted for a scum gambit. I wouldn't die of shock if she flipped guilty, and I kind of see Locke's point that setting contingencies based on the lynch is scummy (it's so much fun as scum to link your partner to every group suspect in existence). But meh. I guess I'm not really feeling it. She doesn't seem to be opportunistically tailoring her opinions to suit the masses.

Okay, fair enough if you're “not feeling” Baby as scum but reading this little block of text I see no reason for you to be fighting the Baby wagon like you are. You are actively derailing a wagon on a player who you admittedly have at least a slight scum read on. Why exactly?

I understand the Benmage thing.
I understand the furc thing.
I understand the IAI thing.

But in a mountainous game like this, where we get two lynches a day, you shouldn't be fighting a lynch as hard as you are unless you are convinced that player is town. Clearly you aren't convinced about Baby. It's like you want it all ways possible.

Baby looks scummy
People on her wagon are scummy
People off her wagon are scummy.

Seriously? Pick a side. Unless you have a legit case as to why we

shouldn't

lynch Baby today then you shouldn't be trying to derail this as hard as you are.

Why am I panicking?

1) Force of habit. I always second-guess myself at crunch time.
2) People should not be using lack of time and desire to get making compromise votes on Baby Spice instead of pushing a player they suspect more when we have time to reach a consensus. I mean...seriously, you have no problem whatsoever with Benmage's, IAI, and Furcolow's votes?
3) Furc's recent posts have looked so opportunistic and conscious of popular opinion that I'd rather that Furcolow and Lrdwhyt were the lynches. So I'd prefer we lynch LW right now, and then we move onto the next phase, in which I push Furc over Baby Spice.

1] Me too. But experience has taught me that sometimes you just have to take a deep breath and jump over that cliff already. Considering the set up of this game with the double lynch, I think the town can afford to play a little lose here.

2] I don't have any issue with furc's vote. It's how he is.

Benmage and IAI's votes do look suspect on face value. Both are voting for someone they believe is town out of spite. However, I still have a strong town read on IAI because I have seen scumIAI and this is totally different. He does earn a couple of scum points for the reasoning to his vote but not enough for me to abandon this read.

Benmage is town right now mostly because of Dry-Fit. How likely do you think that was a bus?

I resevere the right to change my mind, but this is where my head is at right now. Their votes a terribad, but Baby is probscum. I'll take it anyway I can get it.

3] I thought you had experience playing with furc before? I wouldn't exactly be against a policy lynch of furc, but lets not pretend that it is scum hunting.

Sotty, question. Why do you find Baby Spice's cognitive dissonance scummy and not Furcolow's? Also, do you think that Furcolow's play is similar to his town or scum meta?

First off I never classed anything Babyspice did as

“cognitive dissonance”

. I don't like the fact you have, in essence, paired my case against Baby up with furc now. Clearly Baby and furc are not guilty of the same exact things, otherwise I would be pushing on furc too.

I'm old school. I don't use phrases like cognitive dissonance or cognitive bias or whatever. I scum hunt mostly on gut. If I see something off, I question it, I try and figure out posts motivations and develop a reasoning. I'm logical to a point, but I try not to over think. My scum hunting abilities are a result of all the games I have personally played in and experienced. I don't need to justify it anymore beyond that.

All furc has done is be himself. In that he changes his mind in a blink of an eye. Make a case on him and maybe I'll listen. Right now I don't have an issue with him. Would I want him in LYLO... Probably not. Although I do hear he has a good lylo record (unless I remembering someone else)

4) I'd rather everyone took a stand before the lynch.

Now this I can give you. In my opinion, it is your only legit point you have for stalling the Babyspice lynch.

Your turn. What's the rush for someone to hammer right away, Sotty? Why don't you want more discussion?

I have already said why.

But I have no issue waiting for everyone to weigh in. After that, I will be calling for the lynch again.

= = = = =

^^^^^Wow scummiest post of this century. This is Lynch 1. Even if it goes through quickly, why/how would it affect your read on Lrd?? You’ve been pushing BS for 2 days. You should be jumping up and down and ecstatic about your 2 day lead suspect being lynched for whatever reason that have convinced others.

I'll preface this by saying that a lot of Mina's last post to Benmage resonated with me.

That said...I actually think Benmage has a decent point here. Earlier in the same post Percy was talking about how long and solid he has been on BS and now that the wagon is finally getting some good steam under it he wants to unvote to re-read LrdWhyt? Something is a little odd with this.

I pretty much agree with this.

= = = = =

slowly getting back on my feet.. got diagnosed with food poisioning and a burst blood vessel. Not as serious as I thought but still groggy on it...

Seriously shocked at Percys attempts at derealing the BS wagon at -1... I know he says its a 24hour thing but it seems more like scum getting cold feet on lynching his partner. I don't buy his reasons for it one bit. If anything it indicates more Percy is likely to be scum with a BS lynch. I would go as far as saying on the seere likelyhood BS flips scum Percy is an automatic policy lynch. We need to lynch him by the end of this day phase.

Do you find me scummy for unvoting Lrd when he was at lynch-1?

[Sotty7]

Mina is expanding more effort to defend Baby than Baby is herself.

I don't understand why that is.

[Sotty7]

And I've tried hard to erase last man standing from my memory bank a traitor on a Mafia team should be marked as bastardly.

Fair enough.

All I know is that if we do get a Baby lynch and she flips scum like I expect I will be reviewing my reads on both Percy and Mina.

[Sotty7]

Benmage and IAI's votes do look suspect on face value. Both are voting for someone they believe is town out of spite. However, I still have a strong town read on IAI because I have seen scumIAI and this is totally different. He does earn a couple of scum points for the reasoning to his vote but not enough for me to abandon this read.

Reread Post 776. Never had a town read on Baby Spice.

My vote for her is because I do not see a lynch on my Top 2 (Percy/Thor), and I see BS as equally likely to be scum as Lrdwhyt, Mina, Furc. So instead of picking a name out of a hat from these 4 players, I threw caution to the wind and picked BS because if she flips town, more fire will be added to the fires of My Top 2, which is very good if I am right about them.

I appreciate the clarity. The way you are

so sure

on Thor and Percy made me think you had town reads on pretty much everyone else.

= = = = = =

KScope's iso is always terrible, unfortunately.

Also extremely unimpressed that you are also pairing me with Lrd like your BFF Baby. But at least your voting the right way round unlike Babyspice.

I'm not sure why that is. I think he's definitely scummy and you're sorta free-floating on my list, right now. I haven't found anything that looks associative between you, but I can't think of a good reason this isn't plausible. Why are you unimpressed?

Because it came right off the back of Baby calling that exact same scum team.

No, I'm voting Babyspice for pushing scummy logic. Jason's slip wasn't a slip and therefore

wasn't

scummy.

That is not the defence of Jason that I quoted, though. You said:

He has a tendency to get into trouble like this because he tends to play on emotions and will just knee jerk to everything. As scum he is much more composed.

and I do think that is a very plausible explanation for at least parts of her play, in particular her stance on Benmage. I am not calling you out on a double standard, but I do think it's odd that you don't appear to have even considered this; in particular

I see no reason to attribute Babyspice's actions as VI over scummy. But as I think your question over, I guess I have no hardened reasoning why. I find her moves scummy and not stupid.

that, and as far as I can see, don't seem to find it an important thing to think about.

I really do think that it's odd that you don't have this train of thought if you're town. Why do you think it's scummy and not stupid?

I still don't think I am getting your point Elmo.

Baby isn't playing emotionally that I see. She also doesn't seem to be knee jerking to everything like I spoke about Jason doing. I have countless games experience playing with Jason, he is one of the only two players I am extremely comfortable with meta wise.

I don't think Jason is a VI, I also don't think his early play was stupid. I still don't see how this compares to Baby. They two styles are different to me. Neither look like idiots. Neither are VI's in my mind.

Baby has made a horrible case on Benmage and now me. I could cop out and call it stupid I suppose, but unless someone is going to be overly dumb in a game, I am going to give them the benefit of the doubt. Baby doesn't strike me as stupid, so I think she is being opportunistic scum. It's as simple as that.

Lrd's vote on Elmo is awful it does not count as scum hunting. Benmage's push on him is good in that respect.

Would you like to see a Lrd lynch in the second part of today?

Yes. He is my second suspect. I really want to see both Baby and Lrd lynched today, I think that's the scum team. Especially with how Baby was so desperate to link me to Lrd for extremely poor reasons.

Mina is climbing my list a little, more than Percy now I had time to dwell on it a little. I'm still "eh" on Thor and yourself. Everyone else I'm feeling town.

Elmo, do you think Baby is a VI?

[Sotty7]

This game.... I can't decide if this is fun anymore or not. Right now my vote is for no. I'm banging my head against a wall.

I'm going to try and stop this from being a text wall. Lets see how I succeed.

EDIT: I fail pretty hard.

TL:DR

This post is mostly for Mina's benefit. I feel like I have said most of this before.

= = = = = =

Mina, you remind me a lot of my early play. The second guessing, the white knighting, the text walls. I think this is why it is hard for me to form a read on you. I almost want to let you get away with everything.

I'll be completely honest; being linked to a leading wagon

before

a flip makes me feel self-conscious of my reads, particularly since I've steadfastly defended scum more than a few times. Even as I'm writing this, I'll admit there's a voice in my head going, "Oh, shit, if she flips scum, you'll look even

more

like her buddy." Can't people...um, just magically see into my pure innocent heart and let me post whatever wishy-washy contradictory thoughts come into my mind without lynching me for it?

I feel this.

*

Snip: Stuff about Lrd pressure and the build of the Babyspice wagon*

To be honest, when everyone gangs up on an easy target without little thought, my white knight instincts kick in.

So maybe I overreacted a bit.

The bold is pretty much what I wanted to hear from you. But explain to me why Babyspice is an easy target? I don't get this. Elmo is basically

saying the same thing.

What am I missing? Bullet points on this would be appreciated. No this isn't sarcasm.... But if you and Elmo flip scum I think I will flip out. Because then this will be some horrible mind fuck you have pulled on me.

Okay, most of your points in this post are fair, but I really hated this. The implication that it's townish to just go with the flow and not voice your own opinions bothers me.

Well that wasn't my point at all. Never should you just go with the flow, by all means speak out against wagons you don't agree with, but you should only actively derail wagons

if you have a good reason

.

With Babyspice you don't have a good reason because you admitted a slight scum read on her! You can say things like “I don't like this lynch as much as this guy over here” or whatever. I speak out against wagons I don't like all the time but I will only actively derail wagons when I have strong town reads or other stuff.

Clearly you don't play this way. In large games I think this is an optimal way of playing because of the shear amount of lynches we have to play with.

For example, in this game I would probably only actively derail a wagon on Jason or Locke because I have strong town reads here.

I feel I have explained this before, but clearly not done a good job of it.

Do you just find this scummy because you think Baby Spice is scum (although to be honest, I think if you're looking for BS's partner, it's more likely to be someone like Furcolow, who barely mentions her but then puts her to L-1 after someone else promises to do it)? Or would you find it scummy for anyone who isn't convinced that X is town to ask, "Hey, why are you voting for X, instead of Y who both you and I suspect more?

I think it is scummy because scum would want to save a buddy. Playing Lone~Scum~Rambo can be intimidating and all things being equal (in that I don't know your scum meta) I am going to believe scum will try and make their lives easier. It's really that simple.

I also find it scummy because Baby is sitting back and enjoying the benefits of your white knighting without really trying herself. Her scum hunting is lackluster at best. You are providing the perfect cover for her and it blows my mind why you would do that.

Yes, I'll agree that town can afford to play more loosely than in a one-lynch-per-day game. But that doesn't make it a scum mindset to be cautious. Somehow, it seems too easy for the scum to all be the weak players (so I have the sneaking suspicion that two out of three of BS, LW, and Furc aren't guilty).

You wanna know what screws with scum more than anything? A loose, unpredictable town that are willing to quick wagon at the drop of hat. Ladies night is one of my more recent scum games and it is also one of my worse performances as scum on this site. Why? Because I could never get comfortable in the town, they were all good players and they played really fast.

Ever since that game I have tried to play looser to help my town game. I'm open to quick wagons, I'm open to town alliances, I'm open to bandwagoning just to freaking bandwagon.

I prefer playing on my own terms. I will vote for Baby Spice when I'm confident that she's more likely to be scum than another potential lynch, or when the alternative is a lynch I disagree with (like I did on Day One). But I didn't feel ready for Phase One to end at the point where people were calling for a hammer.

I'm nothing if respectful to players as along as they aren't jerks. I'm not saying you should be voting for Babyspice just because I called for a hammer (although I would have loved you if you did) It's your vote to do with how you please, but I am getting that feeling that you believe it's your way or the highway and that if you think a lynch is bad then it is

bad

end-of-story. Never mind what the rest of the town has to say.

If I wasn't leaning town on you from before, I'd OMGUS you and accuse you of misrepping me. Please show just where:

1) I'm trying to derail this very hard. (Meh...I did ask Benmage to unvote.)
2) I said that people off her wagon are scummy because they're off their wagon.

I think saying that I'm trying to have it all ways just because I'm ambivalent on Baby Spice is really unfair.

”I don't think Baby is scum, in fact scum are on her wagon
”Quick lynch is quick”
The start of our recent back and forth.

It felt like you made more posts about how the Baby lynch was bad but you didn't. It just felt like a lot at the time. What I was basically saying was that it seemed like you found Baby scummy, people on Baby's wagon scummy as well as having suspects off wagon. I don't think I ever implied that you found people scummy for NOT being on the Babyspice wagon. So yeah.

I think I am just going to agree to disagree with you here RE: furc. Mostly because of this game

Sotty, question. Why do you find Baby Spice's cognitive dissonance scummy and not Furcolow's? Also, do you think that Furcolow's play is similar to his town or scum meta?

(1) First off I never classed anything Babyspice did as

“cognitive dissonance”

. (2) I don't like the fact you have, in essence, paired my case against Baby up with furc now. Clearly Baby and furc are not guilty of the same exact things, otherwise I would be pushing on furc too.

1) I remember someone using the words "cognitive dissonance" in this thread to refer to Baby Spice. Sorry, I thought it was you.

2) Um...that's

exactly

my point.

Saying Baby and Furc are not guilty of the same things because

you aren't attacking both of them

is circular reasoning. I asked you because I wanted to know what were your reasons for thinking Baby Spice's poor logic and contradictions are scummier and less out of character than Furcolow's poor logic and contradictions. I want to know

why

you aren't pushing on Furcolow as well? Why

don't

you think they're guilty of the exact same things? This is both for my own enlightenment (is there something about both of them I'm missing?) and to get a better read on you.

If you wanted to know my reads of Baby and furc why didn't you just

ask

? This is an example of you being more obtuse than you absolutely needed to be.

I read the quoted statement as you misrepping and misgrouping my Baby's issues with one of my town reads as a means to discredit it. Like I said to IAI, I'm not as smart as people seem to think...

I think I detailed why I feel like I do about furc. I don't have an issue with someone changing their mind. I like loose towns. Sometimes furc makes me face palm, but I think it's because he just plays for himself. He plays free. The key is reading between the lines. He is a perfect scum lynch, that's why I wasn't interested in his lynch at all yesterday and why I said I wouldn't be totally against a policy lynch of him. But if we lynch furc for what you seem to want to (his lynch-1 vote of Baby) then we may as well be lynching him for being himself.

Like I said, make an actual case and I might be swayed.

Baby on the other hand has made a horrible case on Benmage, set a horrible trap out for me and proceeded to vote me for it. I am not seeing the VIness that you and Elmo are. I'm just not.

Although I am getting tired of having to defend my vote to the pair of you.

I don't see how furc and Baby are similar. Quote and show me where they are comparable.

All you say there is that the downside to hammering isn't as high as usual. Well...what's the upside? Why did you think hammering quickly was better than waiting? You were putting pressure on people to hammer? What was the trade-off of instant hammer vs. more discussion when you called for it?

The upside is that speed lynches fuck with the scum, they can't plan.
The upside is we get REACTIONS
The upside is that we have this freaking perfect TOOL to use THAT DOESN'T end the day when it normally would.
The upside is we can still have discussion AFTER a flip.

The downside of not having everyone weigh in is there, but small in comparison. IMO anyway.

[Sotty7]

Lrdwhyt has requested replacement.

Unvote

Replacements should be given a chance to speak for themselves.

Why are you unvoting? The slot is in no danger of being lynched.

= = = = =

Percy I have suspected Nikanor/Thor almost since this game has started.

Of course

I am going to be down with IAI's pressure of him. Also the more recent pressure has been about forcing Thor to give opinions. I like that, even if I don't like the idea of you and him being linked that much.

It's noted that whenever there might be a leg up on my lynch like when I debate with Mina, you are right there with a post "worrying" about me. Yet when Mina declares me a town read you come up with the same thing. It's kinda creeping me out. If you do actually have a case on me, type it up and put it out there and lets talk about it. I don't like all these allusions to it. It feels like you are sniffing around trying to keep my lynch viable.

[Sotty7]

btw Sotty.
I replaced into newbie 1012 at L-1 about 7 hours before deadline for D1 in a game with deadline lynching rules.

Nameloc did it then and it seemed like a good idea to me, and yes Lrdwhy was in some danger I believe.

btw, the two situations aren't even comparable and I still content that slot wasn't going to be lynched any time soon. Fake attempt for protown points is fake. (See what I did there?)

Sotty/Mina is gut pure and simple. I can't point to what seemed fake about it, but it seemed fake.

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeak.

Lrd has been replaced, you should be voting.

= = = = =

Ben, is your town read on Baby strictly because you think she is a VI?

= = = = = =

I'll ask the mod about it and see if we can cut a deal

Thor! You just claimed scum! You know what this reminds me of? This game, I called you on it there and now you are pulling it again here. Please provide games where TownThor has joked about being scum ASAP.

Babyspice + Thor = game.

[Sotty7]

If you can't provide town games I gonna go ahead and assume this is a scum meta tell I have just busted you on.

[Sotty7]

I would think it would be something you would remember off hand honestly. Maybe I will look over your games later, your wiki looks to be reasonably up to date on a quick skim.

I let you talk me down from this tell in the game that just finished. I am not letting you charm your way out of it this time.

[Sotty7]

I suppose that is fair.

...But I am watching you and your beard

[Sotty7]

Busy doing something else right now, so I won't answer all the questions directed at me yet. (My God. Should I...should I really respond to Sotty's last wall post with yet another wall post? Or respond to Percy's last post--because, you know, I'm sure a back-and-forth with Percy would be

much

more succinct than one with Sotty. Or would that be unnecessary cruelty to the other players?)

I know I asked you a bunch of questions in my last post but I kinda feel like we are debating different view points rather than actual scumminess. Like I said in our last exchange I think we could probably go on forever like this. I am willing to put an end to the walls if you are.

For example, in this game I would probably only actively derail a wagon on Jason or Locke because I have strong town reads here.

I owe you answers to your other questions. But are you saying that right now, if Benmage--or hell, even Percy--was at L-1 and Baby Spice was the second viable wagon, you'd hammer?

All things being equal, I wouldn't hammer. But I also wouldn't tear down the wagon and fight it hard if it looked somewhat legit.

I know that sounds kinda lame and conditional, but that's how I feel. It would really depend on how they were run up and by who. I don't think Percy or Ben are confirmed town by any means so I'd speak out and have my vote else where. But I wouldn't be pulling at the foundations of the wagon either.

I feel like I am a key foundation block in the Babyspice wagon that is being attacked by both you and Elmo. With each one of you throwing another player in my face and asking why they aren't as scummy as Baby. Maybe I am just over reacting but it's starting creep me out a little. Paranoia is kicking in.

I know all three of you can't be scum, but it is starting to feel like that at times.

Question. What bothered you about Thor before his posts today? Just the fact that he replaced Nikanor? I also got a little creeped out on this page by the joke that seemed to imply he was scum, and his attack on Baby Spice this page feels a bit overaggressive, but before that, he looked really genuine and townish to me.

Pretty much the fact he replaced Nikanor. I was keeping an eye on him, but I agree he seemed townie. The scum claim brings my suspicion of that player slot flooding back to me though.

[Sotty7]

I really needed someone to high five with after that flip. Damn.

Yeah, it's probably Emp.

[Sotty7]

lol Mamora.

Anyway, I am behind because of the weekend. I'm gonna try and catch up tonight, if not then I will commit my morning to it.

[Sotty7]

Oh wow. I thought I was going to vote Emp once I had read up but I am loving Locke's Mina case. I'm going to think it over a little more before I finally vote. I'm tired and reading Ben v furc didn't help. So I will be back tomorrow, hopefully for real this time.

[Sotty7]

^ lol, had to ruin a good thing.

Vote: Emp

I want details as to why you are voting Mina. When I say details I mean a case of your own that isn't Locke's. Since you have got here I haven't seen a lot of scum hunting from you which is something Lrd was also guilty of.

And yes I saw Percy's vote, but he has been here since the start and has been scum hunting. Your slot, not so much.

[Sotty7]

Thor:

What's the difference between bad and scummy RE: Mina for you?

Mina:

How did Thor make your list of semi confirmed town? I thought he was giving you bad feelings.

Mina's post 1037 is bad in parts (I don't like how she splits the remaining players for example) but her general tone reminds me of a post I made as town in a recent game. A game I happened to horribly screw up. Emp's jump on her with no real case is awful. I think he is more likely to be scum than Mina at this point.

[Sotty7]

Isn't voting Mina for dithering a bit like voting Furcolow for OMGUSing? I dunno, I agree Mina looks bad but she just doesn't feel that scummy to me. Meanwhile we have Empking who is most assuredly acting dicey around important wagons and whose predecessors did the same. He's even been bouncing around today trying to be wherever it looks like an alternate wagon is going to spring up.

[Sotty7]

Have you ever seen ScumMina or are we talking about a bunch of town games here?

[Sotty7]

So yeah, lets lynch emp and win this thing before I go nuts eh?

[Sotty7]

Actually, before I hammer, one last question, just in case the game doesn't end and Sotty dies:

Sotty, how sure are you that jason is innocent? 100%? I highly doubt he's scum based on his interactions with the flipped players, but I occasionally get a twinge of paranoia due to his inactivity and to reasoning I disagree with. If you know him well enough to say that this absolutely isn't his scum play, then I'll trust your judgment and treat him as confirmed.

You can never be 100% sure, but I would bet anything that he is town here.

[Sotty7]

I wanna vote for Mina, but I also wanna do work rather than just laze out with my vote. So yeah, later when I have read.

[Sotty7]

True, but I am old school. Plus I want to break out of my cruise control mode that was activated since the BS lynch. I also think the town has been cruising a little lately too. That tends to happen with early scum flips. I think we all need to pull our socks up a little and actually play the game.

That pretty much starts with people posting their reasons for voting who they are. A few sentences is better than nothing.

[Sotty7]

I feel like throwing a furc fit, but I won't. I spent yesterday in my newbie game, I plan to do the same here today once I wake up probably.

[Sotty7]

If you vote for Thor we can pretend this never happened and be BBF's

Eh...? Eh...?

[Sotty7]

1. Scums usually try to get away with posting as little as they can.

Yes, I've seen this in so many games that even I was finding it a little odd. A few minority type up walls and walls of text every page but as I said that's only a minority. If you look at the first 10 pages, you can see that the confirmed scums, Dry-fit and Mongoose, are doing exactly that averaging one post every 2 pages.

And yet I am on every page bar five and six, with multiple posts for the most part.

2. Scums will have no interactions with each other at early stages of the game unless forced to.

Another arguable point, but look again. Dry-fit and Mongoose have had no interactions at all until Dry-fit was a primary suspect during page 10 and all he had to say was:

I dont see anything wrong with dryfit to be honest. I think everything he has said can be justified. On the other hand, redcoyote's posts aren't really that great. There is alot of irrelevant and silly stuff, along with some questionable points (like his votes on sotty and nikanor, I didn't quite catch the reason for those). However there has been alot of stuff I think is townie behavior as well. While I think that the judgment of older, better players than me shouldn't be disregarded, i still think that the case on furcolow is stronger, so I keep my vote there

If you look carefully at this paragraph, he only directly talk about Dry-fit in the first two sentence and attempts to divert further attention by bringing up another topic straight after.

mongoose also didn't mention:

Elmo
Percy
Kscope (unless you count mentioning his avatar)

I do get a small shout out from mongoose here:

First off, I realized there's a bit of contradiction with benmage's first quoted comment and my final response to that quote. Yeah, it does direct us away from scum hunting, and while it doesn't help too much I dont think it was too bad. Compared to some other filler posts at the start of the game, it definitely was more helpful.

I dont see anything wrong with dryfit to be honest. I think everything he has said can be justified. On the other hand, redcoyote's posts aren't really that great. There is alot of irrelevant and silly stuff, along with some questionable points (like his votes on sotty and nikanor, I didn't quite catch the reason for those). However there has been alot of stuff I think is townie behavior as well. While I think that the judgment of older, better players than me shouldn't be disregarded, i still think that the case on furcolow is stronger, so I keep my vote there

Small yeah, but it's more than Elmo and Percy.

I pop up in Dry-Fit's ISO a handful of times. He is mainly answering me. But I'm there. Dry-Fit actually mentions in passing or had an exchange with everyone that is alive. Guess he doesn't fit into this trend.

3. Scums avoid voting the same person

This is basically inscribed in the book of "what scums should do" and a lot of scums think this is smart and somehow prevents suspicion. In my last game, the scums never had their votes at the same person unless special circumstances arise.

This trend is just bogus. Scums will totally bandwagon with each other.

Let me start off by telling you that this wasn't the start of his post. I actually cut off a wall of text in front of what disguised the jewel. Here's a small question that he asks Dry-fit for what I can only assume was intended to put away suspicion, had Dry-fit been lynched in the near-future.

OR,

I legitmently found Dry Fit's position on Jason (a player I have been defending like crazy) really freaking scummy. I'll admit to not paying Dry-Fit too much attention until he did that. I called him on it. Simple.

My theory is that Sotty7 reading IAI's post, was reminded that scums distancing themselves was a easy scumtell and thus tries to interact a little with his scum partner Dry-fit with a meanlingless question that he did not even follow up with anything.

Interesting, but you're wrong. Also I did follow up on Dry Fit:

He does get a little better as the game progresses but I quite like my vote right now. Dry-fit would be a good second choice.

And here

Why don't you buy the perfectly plausible explanation?

and post so I see he is lying. meaning he just admitted to lying.

This is not an intuitive thought process at all.

You realize that this still doesn't answer the question right?

Why

isn't it an intuitive thought process?

You can basically ignore the first paragraphs and the last paragraphs because as I explained earlier, scums hide their interactions with other scums between their posts, and usually end on a different topic so people don't make a big deal out of it.

So we are just going to ignore all the posts I had with Babyspice as my main subject?

You guys need to reread the thread right now starting from page 1 up to 10 and see the relationship between Sotty7, MonGoose and Dry-fit. I don't have much time right now because it's dinner and it already took me 5- minutes typing this up but try to see how they avoid each other. The early stage of the game is what I believe to be the most important because scums would tend to avoid each other and throw votes around at people trying to cause panic.

MonGoose and Dry-fit never even remotely talks about Sotty7 during the early stage but they talk about everyone else and throw votes around trying to cause panic. Look at their votes, almost everyone gets a vote.

I am very convinced that Sotty7 is scum.

And if you guys can't be bothered to look at each of MonGoose and Dry-fit's post I'll post more tomorrow.

As mentioned, your player slot as well as Percy and Kscope ALSO fit this profiling you are pushing on me. You have shown nothing that has set me apart from them or you. On top of that you have purposely left out parts of my interactions with confirmed scum to make this all sound and look better than what it is. Why is that?

[Sotty7]

Point three should be revised to:

3. Scums generally avoid suspecting the same people

which as I demonstrated in my above post, sotty7 and his 2 partners suspected different people.

?

This is some kind of strange conformation bias your showing here.

Confirmed scums early voting record.

Mongoose

-benmage
-furc

Dry-Fit

-KScope
-Oso
-jason

Players who are alive that didn't vote any of the above players in the early goings

benmage

-Percy
-IAI
-Dry fit

KScope

-Red
-Dry Fit
-Percy

Mina

-mongoose
-Red
-Babyspice
-Lrd
-Elmo

Sotty

-Red
-IAI
-Nikanor
-Dry fit

Spoiler: The rest of the players

Everyone else

Elmo

-IAI
-Oso
-IKD
-Red
-Dry Fit

furc

-IAI
-Dry fit
-Benmage
-jason
-Red

IAI

-jason
-Oso
-IAI
-furc
-Dry fit

Jason

-Sotty
-IAI
-Elmo
-Nikanor
-benmage
-furc
-Dry Fit
-Babyspice
-Percy

Percy

-Sotty
-Red
-benmage
-furc
-Babyspice

Nikanor AKA Thor

-jason
-Babyspice

I ISOed everyone, and just did a find on the word VOTE and jotted down everyones votes on the first few pages of their ISO. I tried to get all the day one votes but I might have extended myself with a couple of people.

So another premise of yours busted. Why isn't KScope getting more heat? He seems to check all the boxes I do, why are you glossing over him? Why are you ignoring Babyspice?

[So you're saying Percy killed Locke after Locke clearly stated that he felt "ok" about Percy?

So your saying I killed Locke after he seemed to imply he thought I was town?

And post 1140 is just ridiculous.

[Sotty7]

Percy, I am having serious flash backs to AA. Help me.

[Sotty7]

In other news I'm gonna ISO my top suspects (Mina, Thor and Nul) so I can figure out where my vote goes. I may or may not respond some more to Nul's train wreck, we'll see.

[Sotty7]

You'll be waiting a long time.

Do the game a favor and go to sleep.

[Sotty7]

Well Nul to be honest, you already look stupid. You don't need my help in doing that. I'm having a hard time taking you seriously when you get so many little things wrong on top of your case being a big pile of horse crap.

In every post it lists my gender and my join date. So you call me a dude for a couple of post, meh lots of people do that and it doesn't bother me, it just means you didn't look at my posting profile. But then you say I have been playing for two years? That implies that you actively took a look under my name, under my little pic with the guy pretending to hold the sun AND STILL GOT IT WRONG! Yeah, I might not have nifty title under name, I might not be the biggest presence on the site, my name isn't in a funky different color but I have been here for awhile, I don't see how you could have misread that. Even if you mistook me for someone else your creditability takes a hit, I'm not sure how you could do that when everyone here has avatars (bar benmage) I mean what the hell?

Your case is built of completely crap premises that I disagree with. Being scum is freaking subjective, to say there are hard and fast rules is just wrong. Yeah, some scum will fit in your little neat boxes, but not everyone will. My wiki is up to date, check out my scum meta if you want then get back to me about lurking, lack of buddy interactions and not bandwagoning with my scum buddies. Lets not forget that your scum rules work just as well for people like Kscope and Percy but you brush that under the rug. The first ten pages of a game aren't any more important that the last ten pages, so for you to try and wipe out all my good work with Babyspice because it didn't happen till later is just really really.... Silly.

Right now I am ISOing Mina, like I said I would do, I am not going to respond to you until I ISO your slot which won't happen for a long time. So if your waiting for me, don't. When I said "do the game a favor" I meant it. You are currently spamming the thread with posts that are of little help making it harder for everyone to read. On top of that you are using txt speak which is a big pet peeve of mine so I am starting to lose my patience, which really takes a freaking lot.

....So yeah, go to bed. Stop posting. Please. I will get to you in time.

[Sotty7]

I think I just got out of bed on the wrong side this morning, Nul just managed to push all my buttons. Apologies, flowers, cookies... Whatever needed. I probably over reacted but seriously. This is a reading game, one or two mistakes I'm gonna forgive, but Nul's posts are littered with them. I got frustrated.

Nul, I just want you to take a chill pill and READ everything, including your own posts, before hitting submit. Sorry for the rant.

ISO reading abandoned so I can respond to the case some more and basically what has been posted since my last substantive post.

EDIT: I decided to make two separate posts. The first is commentary on the latest going ons that is isn't Nul. The second will be me defending myself from the case.

= = = = = = =

@Sotty7

: What is your read on Thor?

Likely scum. I think my vote is going on either him or Mina once I finish reading. I'm also flattered about the several nice things you have said about me in this game even if I think they are slightly off the mark. I understand why you would want to lynch me as far as a gut check goes at least. I just feel it is a little unfair, but you probably don't want to hear that from me.

= = = = = =

@Sotty7

: What is your read on Thor?

Sotty, why aren't you voting/voting thor?

Voting/voting?

Because I'm trying to figure out who are last scum is between Mina and Thor atm. I really wanted to OMGUS vote Nul, but I am starting to think his case is too bad and ballsy to be scum. Elmo's lurkiness could just been because of his disinterest with the game since he replaced out. Still I need a closer look. I'm trying not to slack off today, it is very tempting to just go with the flow and vote for Mina just to wagon or whatever.

= = = = =

This is a wagon on scum.
Scum died from this wagon.
This point is NOT crucial, as the scum on the wagon did not know they were wagonning scum.
AGar and Vezokpiraka are the scum on the wagon on Mothrax, who was scum.
AGar and Vezokpiraka knew they were scum together. Mothrax was scum with Sociopath. They were on the same team, not knowing who the two partners were individually (my interpretation, it might be wrong, i'm not perfect).

I believe all the scum knew everyone at that point, we combined the QT's very early. I'm sure before that lynch. But the rest of your points in this post are spot on.

I'm pretty sure furc v jason is town on town. Lets be more productive people.

[Sotty7]

And yet I am on every page bar five and six, with multiple posts for the most part.

Scums lurking is usually due to their inexperience but seeing as you've been playing this game for 2 years and have 3500 posts, I'd guess you would know how to type alot and still appear townie.

Sometimes I do. That's not the case in this game however.

You can see here Percy answering a question from mongoose at a very early stage in the game; page 3.
One of my scumtell theories is that scums will try as much as possible to not make contact with each other during the early stage of the game, say pages 1-5. I think that if Percy was scum, he would of let someone else answer the question.

That's Percy talking to mongoose. I thought your premise was that mongoose never mentioned people not the other way round? Percy would probably also fall under the group of players that could “type a lot but still look town”

This is Dry-fit's second post and thus has reduced the probability of Kscope being scum on my list.

You don't believe in bussing?

As for Elmo, I didn't even analyze any of his posts.

And I don't really expect you to seeing as you replace him. Still, the fact you find me scummy for the same thing that your slot has done is baffling to me. Either you are tunneled in a insane way, or you are trying to tell us all something.

This trend is just bogus. Scums will totally bandwagon with each other.

Well, you can quite clearly see that Dry-fit and Mongoose never once voted or FOS'd for the same people.

Look if you don't believe me, pick any random complete mafia game, for example:
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... &start=100
The scums in this game are Empking, volkan and Tenchi, yet you see the following voting pattern.

I might buy the random bit if you had a decent survey size, but you don't. I guess I should do some leg work and link you some of my scum games.

Hydra mafia

I'm in the Chimaira account, scum with TomandJerry and Faranor

Spoiler:

D2's first official vote count!

Pineapple (L-):

Faranor, Chimaira

, IceCream
Faranor (L-): Mr. Smith

Not Voting: Bowser, Crab Canon, MasterSpy, Pineapple, Professor Paradox,

TomAndJerry

With 10 alive, it will take 6 to lynch, 5 to no-lynch.

D2's Fourth official vote count!

Pineapple (L-1):

Faranor, Chimaira,

Crab Canon, Bowser,

TomAndJerry

Bowser (L-5): Mr. Smith
Crab Canon (L-5): IceCream
Professor Paradox (L-5): MasterSpy
Faranor (L-5): Pineapple
IceCream (L-5): Professor Paradox


With 10 alive, it will take 6 to lynch, 5 to no-lynch.

Ladies night

I'm scum with Hoopla and Sucrose (who later becomes DizzyLizzy)

Spoiler:

Vote Count 1.3

• camn
  (4) (UncertainKitten - Snow_Bunny - Haylen - Apokalyptika)
  
  
  Paws
  (3) (

  Sotty7 - Hoopla

  - camn)
  
  
  Apokalyptika
  (2) (esuriospiritus -

  camn

  - cepi)
  
  
  Snow_Bunny
  (1) (chauchaudotcom)
  
  
  UncertainKitten
  (1) (

  Sucrose

  )
  
  
  Haylen
  (0) (

  Hoopla

  -

  Haylen

  )
  
  
  Hoopla
  (0) (

  Sucrose

  -

  Sotty7

  -

  Apokalyptika

  )
  
  
  Not Voting
  (4) (Ojanen -

  chauchaudotcom

  -

  cepi

  - Paws - Fenchurch - DrippingGoofball)

Vote Count 2.4

• Apokalyptika

  (4) (cepi - DrippingGoofball - Ojanen - Hoopla)
  
  
  Snow_Bunny
  (3) (

  Hoopla

  - camn - UncertainKitten -

  Sotty7

  )
  
  
  Haylen
  (2) (Apokalyptika -

  Sucrose

  -

  Fenchurch

  )
  
  
  camn
  (2) (Haylen - Snow_Bunny)
  
  
  Snow White
  (0) (

  Sotty7

  )
  
  
  Not Voting
  (2) (Snow White - Fenchurch)

I include this one because Hoop and myself were voting on the same wagon but the mod was delayed with the vote count.

Mafiaphoes!

I'm scum with Super Smash Bros. Fan and vezokpiraka

Spoiler:

Vote count 1.8

Oso (0)
Tasky (0)
KageLord (3) Oso,

vezokpiraka

, q21
Humble Poirot (1) jayfl383
q21 (0)
jayfl383 (0)
xvart (0)
quadz08 (2) Humble Poirot, xvart
diddin (0)
vezokpiraka (4) Tasky, KageLord,

Sotty7, Super Smash Bros. Fan

Sotty7 (0)
Super Smash Bros. Fan (2) diddin, quadz08

Not voting:

With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

Vote count 2.2

Oso (0)
Tazaro (0)
KageLord (0)
Humble Poirot (0)
q21 (0)
Aranneas (0)
xvart (0) 
diddin (4)

Sotty7

, Tazaro,

vezokpiraka,

xvart
vezokpiraka (4) Oso, KageLord, diddin,

Super Smash Bros. Fan

Sotty7 (0)
Super Smash Bros. Fan (0)

Not voting: Humble Poirot, q21, Aranneas

Vote count 2.4

Oso (3)

Sotty7

, Tazaro
Tazaro (6) Aranneas, diddin, q21,

Super Smash Bros. Fan

, KageLord,

vezokpiraka

KageLord (0)
Humble Poirot (0)
q21 (0)
Aranneas (0)
xvart (0) 
diddin (1) xvart
vezokpiraka (0)
Sotty7 (1) Oso
Super Smash Bros. Fan (0)

Not voting: Humble Poirot

Those are just my last three scum games. I'm sure there is more and I am sure I am not the only scum that does this.

Is this enough for you to drop this as a scum tell? Wagon analysis is one thing, but you are just stretching your supposed scum tells to fit your vote. It doesn't work, it's broken.

Ok, here are the reasons I think you are scum:
1. You have no interactions with Dry-fit and Mongoose during the early stage of the game (page 1-5) thus proving point 2 of my list of scum trends.
2. Your suspects are always different to your mafia partners. Point 3 of my list of trends and as I just shown above, this is a recurring theme that scums generally do.

Well I agree that Percy has a probability of being scum but you are just the highest on my list right now.

1]Neither does Percy or KScope
2]Busted premise.

You have no leg to stand on with this case.

Point three usually only occurs during the early stages of the game btw.

Convenient. I include some early game VCs up there. Also you are going to have to explain your obsession with the first ten pages.

Well I already explained why I think benmage, Mina and Kscope are innocent. But in case you didn't catch it, here it is again:

They made contact with the scums or the scums made contact with them during the early stage of the game.

Don't believe me? Go read through pages 1-10.

And I don't buy this arbitrary ten page crap.

Also that quote where mongoose talks about me? Yeah, it's on page ten.

And again I already explained why Kscope is low on my suspect list. He mentions the scums several times during the early game and Dry-fit's second post was directed at Kscope. Let's repeat that again. SECOND POST. How many times do I have to repeat lol. I thought I already wrote the reason on my first post but fine

I'll quote it again for you since you're apparently a girl

Bold, not impressed.

As for the rest you can't just chop and change it when you see fit. You were pushing the Dry Fit/moongoose side of interactions when you started this case. You apparently didn't care about the other side until it helps you.

Well that may be because I'm not good at structuring arguments but the posts mainly revolves around the idea of my third point; the early relationship of the scums.

Has nothing to do with structure and everything to do with content.

And where in those posts did Locke say you were town? All he did was made a logical case against Mina in those posts you've linked which I don't entirely agree with.
The reason I think Locke was killed is because he sounded like he actually knew what he was doing with all his post analysis and big words; i.e. the smartest in the game.
Which is a obvious choice for scum to kill in the case that he puts a logical case against you later in the game.

Big words = intelligence eh?

Locke was killed because he was all but confirmed. It is as simple as that. He was never going to be lynched and people were listening to him. In my opinion he thought I was town. But sure, you can keep ignoring that if it makes you case work better for you.

So right now my list of scums look like this:
1. sotty7 75% of being scum
2. percy 32% of being scum
3. I am Innocent 29% of being scum
4. thor 26% of being scum
5. jason 5%
6. benmage 4%
7. furcolow 4%
8. mina 2%

These numbers mean nothing because you pulled them out of your ass.

32% really? How did you come up with this?

After rereading the thread, I would also like to add that something about sotty's defense sound really fishy.

Like how he's trying to divert attention by pushing the suspicion on other people such as this comment:

So another premise of yours busted. Why isn't KScope getting more heat? He seems to check all the boxes I do, why are you glossing over him?

I don't know about you guys but his defense seems to be shouting something along the lines of: "Look at X and Y! I'm innocent! Stop paying attention to me! Yes, look at X and Y!"

Looks like sotty's just dug himself an even bigger hole.

/Faceplam.

What do you expect me to say? Your case is flawed, I'm not the only one saying this. You are building it off a shakey foundation and it is falling down around your ears. While everyone else is running out of the building screaming you are standing in the middle of it with a crazed look on your face saying “I'm gonna live here FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE!!”

Elmo come back, all is forgiven.

[Sotty7]

Because I'm trying to figure out who are last scum is between Mina and Thor atm.

We've got two lynches available last I checked. How about we lynch Mina - if she's not scum I'll probably be fine being lynched next because I'll have no clue who is.

Temptation, thy name is Thor.

I think benmage asks a great question of Mina, why aren't you voting Percy. You wrote that epic novel on him that really made me understand where you were coming from but for you not to follow up with a vote seems... Weird. Are you really second guessing yourself that much? There is a disconnect here somewhere.

jason I can somewhat see where you are coming from RE:benmage. I don't think he is as cleared as he likes to think, but in the same breath I'm not finding his hammer yesterday that scummy. We all pretty much thought the game was going to be over. If I was in a position to grab a game winning hammer I would have taken it with equal gumption.

With that in mind I feel like I want to hammer Mina myself. I'm still working though some ISOs, but I can't over look her strong defense of Babyspice. Especially with how she was willing to call Baby scummy but seemingly unwilling to actually lynch her. The more I read over her poking of me yesterday, the more it feels like a chainsaw attack. After Mina my next two suspects are Nul and Thor. Nul because Elmo was almost as guilty as Mina when it came to Babyspice defending and Thor because of Nikanor and basically Thor and his jokey scum claim.

[Sotty7]

Alright, alright.

Vote: Mina

[Sotty7]

So, if Mina flips scum I'm allowed to mock Sotty, yes?

No

[Sotty7]

I personally still think Percy is town. His paranoia surrounding me feels like something a townie would do. I think as scum Percy would be happy I'm not all on his case, but he keeps bringing up his worries in such a way that makes me think he is really a paranoid townie worried about me.

Your post did do one thing in making me understand why you suspect him, even if I don't necessarily agree with you.

Have to say I am disspointed in the almost KScope vote. I think we're beyond voting for pressure at this point. I don't see the need to type up all that on Percy if you weren't going to vote him.

I will unvote you if you get to L-1 without having posted your reads however. If you really are working on them, they should be up in a day at the most.

[Sotty7]

Because I'm personally unconvinced by his "One of Mina or Sotty absolutely has to be scum because of Baby Spice's weird Lrdwhyt vote" argument. After I flip, it sets him up to push you as a lynch after.

Well if you do flip town Percy will have to make a case on me, one he has been talking about making all game. It will be another thing I can use to assess my read on him. I don't like what he is doing when it comes to his suspicion of me, but I can certainly understand it. My guard is up but at the same time I kinda deserve it. I'll just have to look at what he comes up with if it comes down to that.

I will say your point about Elmo replacing out being a town tell is a good one. I hadn't thought about that. Hrmm.

hmmm i think you have this the wrong way round.

Town would post lots trying to explain things, give her reads... as scum she could have the luxery of not doing this and letting things slide a bit. Posting alot is not stalling, not posting would be stalling.

I pretty much agree. Jason, what's your read on Mina?

Hey IAI, what's crackin'? Who are your other scum reads outside Percy?

[Sotty7]

Vote: Thor

See I can do this too!

Also, why did we hammer when Mina wasn't done posting? jason, I'm pretty sure Mina didn't think Percy was cleared at all, that's what that epic post on the last page was all about.

[Sotty7]

vote: percy

i also dislike babyspice's interactions with him

Which interactions in particular?

Percy is town, I'd love to see that wagon die. Kscope and Nul are my top reads for the last scum and I'm coming around to Elmo's replacement being all about busted scum wanting out of his current slot.

You think Elmo is that big of a prick to abandon his post like that? I mean, when Mina brought that up I thought it is a likely town tell that has moved Nul down my list of desired lynches.

Im going to put my vote where it should have been all day so far

vote: Percy

Really not liking his #1302 talkling about Mina then votes Scope without any reasoning.

There was reasoning in there. This is the second post you have misread. Why don't you like him talking about Mina?

JasonT1981
Percy
Furcolow
I Am Innocent/Benmage
Nul
KaleiÐoscøpe
Thor665

Town to scum list. Can't hate a KScope vote, still would rather lynch Thor.

[Sotty7]

why am i not higher on your town list, sotty?

Because to me jason and Percy are more confident town reads. You're getting there and I don't want to lynch you, but not everyone can be number one townie otherwise it would be a failure of a list.

Can you answer my question now please?

[Sotty7]

You think Elmo is that big of a prick to abandon his post like that? I mean, when Mina brought that up I thought it is a likely town tell that has moved Nul down my list of desired lynches.

::shrug:: Okay, he's not.
As I said, I have no flippin' clue anymore - I was just offering what I had before I'm lynched. I really don't care if you think it's stupid and I wasn't trying to be mean to Elmo.

I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth there, sorry if it looked that way. I have little experience with Elmo, in fact I am pretty sure this is my first game with him. But from what I have seen around the site he doesn't strike me as that kind of player. To throw his toys out of the pram and stomp away because he was losing.

[Sotty7]

What do you think about Thor?

[Sotty7]

Then jason, I think you know what to do. I will be surprised if Percy flips scum.

[Sotty7]

Lynch-1 as well.

[Sotty7]

Fair enough furc, I thought you might have missed my question which is why I asked about it again. We have time, no need to rush.

As for the flashbacks I was talking about this game that I was in with Percy. Basically there was a player in there, AA23, who constantly made terrible arguments throughout the game and mostly on my player slot. He walled and walled while just ignoring actual evidence that his cases were utter horse do-do. I believe all the players wanted to kill him by the time the game was up, he made the game hell. Nul's cases where of similar quality, although thankfully he gave up on them a lot quicker that AA ever did.

[Sotty7]

Why?

[Sotty7]

SOTTY I heardddsss UU.

<3

Thanks to Sotty for the invite. Sorry my play as townie was not anywhere as solid as my play in our scum game. You and Equinox are free to withdraw your noms...I won't be (too) offended!

Never.

Yay for the win. I felt really crappy once I died, I never made a true case on Thor and was worried he would just charm his way out again. In the end PoE caught up with him. I know he is poorly right now so I can't help but wonder if he could have talked himself out of the first lynch if he was given a chance to post.

Anyway I had fun, thanks for running this Zach.

[Sotty7]

I really wanted to shoot someone in that game