Open 250 - Pie E7 Mark II

[VP Baltar]

Wow, this is an organized town. Somebody vote me, I feel left out.

@SK - I think your nopoint vote is ridiculous and your Vi vote isn't that far behind it. I'm considering voting you at this point. How is Vi OMGUSing you?

[jasonT1981]

vote: VP Baltar

wait, why does my vote not count

[Equinox]

V/LA until October 20

Responses when I get back.

[sottyrulez]

@SK - how was the purpose of your vote achieved when nopoint hadn't even posted yet?

@sottyrulez- I'd like your comments on SK please.

He's been relatively invisible, and hasn't posted a whole lot. This also makes getting a solid read harder, but I'll flip through his ISO here quick.

Equinox, nopoint. Get in here, stat!

And tbh, I think your reaction has more to do with the fact that the attack targeted you than any assessment of the rationality behind it.

I agree with this. Getting a little testy, VP? At least sottyrulez is attempting to see the other point of view.

Didn't like this jab, still don't.

just getting the game started, you are not concerned with Vi's vote?..why?

Because Vi made the vote an obvious joke, and even stated it was such. You voted me and said it was "for real", which I find a bit jarring when juxtaposed with your explanation that you were merely "getting the game started".

EBWOP: Also, why the quick switch to nopoint?

Noting this.

Next 4 posts are filler, the last one is just unnecissary.

Iso #10: Won't quote because it will wall this post up bad, but basically votes nopoint after making comments on others in his catchup post. It doesn't jibe well with his stated positions.

Iso #11: His nopoint vote is CRAP as he explains it because Nopoint is posting content. (My understanding of what Nopoint actually said was that he wanted content from SK in order to further work on his reads, esentially wanting a read on SK to figure out the whole picture better. NOTHING wrong that.) Names Vi as top suspect. (Why vote here instead of in 10? It makes no sense.)

-----------------------------------------------------------------

That's all the stuff I find interesting.

My conclusion is that he's scummy.

[curiouskarmadog]

2nd in line to update.

[SaintKerrigan]

@VP: Looking back, it probably isn't OMGUS, but I didn't know how else to describe it. Essentially, Vi has taken to the bad habit of overreacting to bad things people say about him, first with sottyrulez, and now me. When I posted the first part of my catchup post, Vi completely ignores the fact that the catchup is incomplete (even though half of his arguments are easily answered by realizing that my catchup was incomplete), misinterprets my nopoint vote completely (although, to be fair, it seems like everyone and their grandmother is doing that so I can't really hold it against him), and calls my complaints about the large amount of walls a scumtell. Honestly, is any of this actually decent reasoning?

Why do you think my Vi case sucks?

@SR: I find it funny that you looked at my catchup post, ignored the question I directed to you, and then reiterated the very issue that I had been inquiring about. Now please go back and answer the question about the "jab".

Seriously, people, what part of "I didn't vote nopoint to lynch him, I voted him to convey a message" did you

not

understand?

It was an issue I noticed in a skim read, and I wanted to provoke nopoint into posting content. I could

also

have said something like, "Nopoint, I don't like how you're refusing to do stuff until I say something, so cut it out," but I felt a vote would be more dramatic, and thus more likely to get a response from him (consider how I had to prod people to comment on my Vi case, and even at that all I've gotten so far is a lame "it sucks" response from VP, and compare the effects). I also thought it would've been

blatantly

obvious that, since I hadn't said anything before the vote about nopoint, good or bad, I wasn't voting to lynch him; apparently I was mistaken.

FoS: CKD

I've read enough to know that you've been chronically not posting content. Seriously, if you really mean to do it, at least post a catchup post in parts, like I'm doing. It's infinitely better than lurking around making campaign promises for November.

[Vi]

Seriously, people, what part of "I didn't vote nopoint to lynch him, I voted him to convey a message" did you

not

understand?

The part where you normally don't vote while catching up unless you have a definite scumread. Considering you didn't mention npau until then, it would be safe to say that he wasn't a definite (or at least well-reasoned) scumread. Most people would take that as an attempt at posturing for the sake of faking activity instead of posturing for the sake of being unnecessarily dramatic.

But more importantly,

I wanted to provoke nopoint into posting content. I could also have said something like, "Nopoint, I don't like how you're refusing to do stuff until I say something, so cut it out," but

[etc.]

Are you saying that npau hadn't posted "content" (given early-game V/LA) before bringing your name up?
Do you even know what "stuff" you were referring to or why you were being waited on?

Speaking of unnecessary drama, the FoS on ckd is kind of :?ish coming immediately after ckd saying that he's going to catch up in what we can assume is a reasonable timeframe.

I await the rest of your catch-up

fluff

post with great interest.

[curiouskarmadog]

hey if you think I am lurking vote me..i am not...I had a game that required more of my time..if you care to see why, meta me...you will also find the other games that are in line to be updated....st. k, did you bother to check?

[VP Baltar]

well, in fairness, I'd like some content too ckd. Preferably soon.

[curiouskarmadog]

i am skimming...you will get it when you get it...this one is second in line (have a 3rd one too)...if you have an issue with that and think I am scummy for it...lynch me.

I am trying.

[nopointinactingup]

npau.
There's something beyond that "Yet." you quoted. Please at least acknowledge it.

Meh?

I thought the fact that I

hadn't

talked about nopoint in a scummy way prior to that would be a clue that I wasn't trying to lynch him, but I guess the dress code around here is uberliteralface.

Right ..

@St.K: I take your post #182 as more of defensive and being frustrated at Vi rather than really thinking Vi is scum. The fact that you are persisting with your non-existent case on Vi is terribly scummy.

@VP: Looking back, it probably isn't OMGUS, but I didn't know how else to describe it. Essentially, Vi has taken to the bad habit of overreacting to bad things people say about him, first with sottyrulez, and now me.

1

When I posted the first part of my catchup post, Vi completely ignores the fact that the catchup is incomplete

(even though half of his arguments are easily answered by realizing that my catchup was incomplete),

2

misinterprets my nopoint vote completely (although, to be fair, it seems like everyone and their grandmother is doing that so I can't really hold it against him)

, and

3

calls my complaints about the large amount of walls a scumtell

. Honestly, is any of this actually decent reasoning?

Why do you think my Vi case sucks?

Because you are saying Vi is wrong, not Vi is scum.
1> I would have also missed such subtle interpretation. Why make it such a big deal?
2> So that's not really a scum point at all since the majority has the same opinion.
3> This is a matter of personal opinion, not alignment.

[Vi]

npau.
There's something beyond that "Yet." you quoted. Please at least acknowledge it.

Meh?

Try harder.

Yes. Else I'd unvote you asap.

What would you do then?

3> This is a matter of personal opinion, not alignment.

Elaborate on this too. It's ambiguous right now.

[VP Baltar]

Thread is dead.

@Sottyrulez - how set are you in your ckd vote at this point?

@ckd - I don't know why you're taking the tough guy attitude with me. It has been many days since we saw something that wasn't an anti-prod post from you. Do you think people are being unreasonable?

[sottyrulez]

Equinox

MY WALL IS BIGGER THAN YOURS.

First wall: nopointinactingup

After all that build-up, post 137 is a pretty big disappointment.

His style has changed drastically from the last game. His former-game gambit suggested that he was eager to scum hunt at game beginning ( which is opposite from me actually =P ), while in this game he hardly makes an attempt to scum-hunt, resorting instead to mostly jokes and masochist-like comments while masking himself with votes on the inactives

tl;dr "CKD isn't playing like his meta, so he's probably scum."

First point of contention: "...which is opposite from me actually." Are you saying that you were unwilling to participate in the game initially? I understand that you had to go on V/LA for the greater part of the game day, so I apologize if I take your statement the wrong way. However, this piques my interest. Why?

Second point of contention: While I agree that CKD not using his town status to maximum advantage is quite worrying, you... seem to disagree with the assessment of the majority here. What about CKD's claim and subsequent posts do you not believe?

Can you explain exactly what you are trying to say in the second point of contention? I want to know what you were thinking at the time if possible.

Please no one else comment on this until Equinox does, thanks.

= = = = = =

Currently going back though the more recent pages VP, not ignoring your question but ask again later.

[curiouskarmadog]

reading and updating now.

[curiouskarmadog]

I am (re)reading from about post 93…I am noting there are a lot of walls of text..I will try to keep this as non-wall as possible..
I will be typing as I am going.

After ckd's premature claim I think I'm going to go back to flaming him again. That was a huge blunder in a role-centric game like this one.

curious vi, when should I have claimed? You can shake your finger all you want, but you just avoided lynching town.

CKD, that claim was very premature and extremely anti-town... but it also happens to be my strongest argument for lynching you at this point, as nothing else in your play makes me feel confident that you'll actually flip scum.

what is anti-town about it? was it scummy (the claim) or just anti-town?

ckd went to great lengths to WIFOM his claim up, and did a good job of it. I think it's more likely that ckd is Town though, although that was a harder decision to make than it had to be.

well it wasnt by design..as I was typing it, i kept thinking..damn that sounds WIFOM....and damn that sounds WIFOM in front of me too...even as I was agreeing in the post that it sounded WIFOM, i thought.."fuck that it WIFOM too", it never stops.

NEW PLAN.
I'd like to check the feasibility of an AwesomeTownBloc^TM consisting of myself, Equinox, and curiouskarmadog. What I have in mind will probably not work unless we all agree that we are Town and are willing to trust each other. You're welcome to refuse and explain why if you're not comfortable with it, but I wouldn't ask you to consider it without some worthwhile reason.

interesting, might revisit once I get caught up

--
A lot of theory debate about the claim (save it for end game)
--

Yo. I'm back!
- The scums are likely Equinox/CKD.
Now why is the scumteam Equinox + CKD you may ask:

CKD

: His style has changed drastically from the last game. His former-game gambit suggested that he was eager to scum hunt at game beginning ( which is opposite from me actually =P ), while in this game he hardly makes an attempt to scum-hunt, resorting instead to mostly jokes and masochist-like comments while masking himself with votes on the inactives .

how did my play style work out last game?...I also had a power role then too....this posting seems awful narrow minded. Also, could there be any other reason I am acting this way?....can you think of any reason my I brought my change in playstyle up earlier in the thread?

• CKD acts scummy and gets run up to lynch -1 and claims early.

At this point we were happy with this wagon if pissed at the claim.

I dont understand this, how can you be happy with the wagon (because you think I am scum) but then be pissed at the claim (because I supposedly shrank the PR pool)...why cant I be scum fakeclaiming in your eyes?..the only reason you would be "pissed" (atp) is because you know I am town. If you thought I was scum, then the VT claim should just have been a fake claim.

--
So many walls, eyes are bleeding
--

More accurately put, CKD is not playing like his meta, so I have a definite suspicion on him.

Sweet shit, I love posts like this…please, do tell me what my meta is?...since you must have checked a couple games (to include my last mafia role from a year ago)…you must have a solid understanding of my meta…please explain..how do I play as town?...is there any difference between a town vanilla or town power in my play? any games you read that you feel demostrates your theory well?

--

Damn, ok, baby needs to be fed. Will finish up pages 7-9 tonight!

[sottyrulez]

(Sotty)

That question was not for no reason. Just because I ask and then not follow up does not mean that I ask it for fun. We went over the operation of your hydra in the first game, where you admitted that you did the majority of the posting because you were better at being scum. I felt this aspect of your meta was one of those things you can't really remedy, which was why I asked who was posting for future reference.

One, we admitted no such thing in the last game. In fact I said quite clearly that I made Zach post the case against VP to manipulate

his

low posting scum meta. A ploy that VP almost fell for. In the last game we sweated over every post pretty much but it was about 50/50 on who actually sat down and typed it out.

Secondly, if this was your reasoning for asking this question why did you not say so when I asked you? You can't be outraged at something you don't post in thread, I'm not a mind reader. Yet at least.

For the record, we're both kinda posting right now, running things by each other but unless we're switching our vote/making cases, we will both be posting somewhat freely.

Sotty7... I know you have a tendency to tunnel (coughnewbie960cough), but the confirmation bias WRT me is getting ridiculous.

FTR we weren't tunneling.

Do you think tunneling is a town or a scum tell?

= = = = = =

@sottyrulez #76: What do you mean by "stirring the pot?" I was just trying to break up an overinflated argument that was consuming both you and VP so we could move on to more productive things.

String the pot, fanning the flames... You know fueling the fire. It just didn't feel right. Thought it explained itself really.

= = = = = =

@sottyrulez - Have you looked at the game Equinox linked? What are your thoughts on that? Do you think the game you linked is completely comparable to this situation?

I only clicked on the link to see what she said.

As for the game I linked, I just wanted people who kept saying that Equinox didn't expect a claim to stop. She knew what was coming. I agree the right way to go about it is for someone to to say “I'm gonna hammer, claim.” but that didn't happen here. But don't put someone at lynch-1 if you don't at least want a claim. Seriously..... [/deadhorse]

= = = = = = =

Other things

- A lot of Equinox's color posts were heavy on the rhetoric. I started to feel like I was reading a political smear thread. Not pleasant.
-I actually like nopoint. I thought he came out looking better in his spat with Equinox. I like the too many town reads point too. It helped me catch scum before
-Agree with Vi in post 174. SK's vote did come out of nowhere. I didn't get the whiney tone really, but the vote blindsided me
- SK's OMGUS vote is bad. (Yes that means scummy)

[curiouskarmadog]

@ckd - I don't know why you're taking the tough guy attitude with me. It has been many days since we saw something that wasn't an anti-prod post from you. Do you think people are being unreasonable?

you are not the only one who has said something, why do you think it was directly solely to you?

[curiouskarmadog]

and I dont mean to be a dick, but I am fustrated..time is lacking...and half of my games have giant walls of text to read...and out of 70+ games, i have only replaced out of 1....so bear with me....

[VP Baltar]

@ckd - I don't know why you're taking the tough guy attitude with me. It has been many days since we saw something that wasn't an anti-prod post from you. Do you think people are being unreasonable?

you are not the only one who has said something, why do you think it was directly solely to you?

I think it was because you posted right after me. I understand life gets in the way and I'm not calling you scummy for it really. Just noting that I do expect content at some point (which you appear to be delivering now, so it's moot)

[sottyrulez]

CKD, that claim was very premature and extremely anti-town... but it also happens to be my strongest argument for lynching you at this point, as nothing else in your play makes me feel confident that you'll actually flip scum.

what is anti-town about it? was it scummy (the claim) or just anti-town?

The first question has been beaten to death ITT. We have detailed why it is anti town extensively, not interested in started that up again.

If we thought it was scummy, we would have said so.

• CKD acts scummy and gets run up to lynch -1 and claims early.

At this point we were happy with this wagon if pissed at the claim.

I dont understand this, how can you be happy with the wagon (because you think I am scum) but then be pissed at the claim (because I supposedly shrank the PR pool)...why cant I be scum fakeclaiming in your eyes?..the only reason you would be "pissed" (atp) is because you know I am town. If you thought I was scum, then the VT claim should just have been a fake claim.

If you hadn't skimmed the bulk of the game you would know we addressed the possibility that you were scum fake claiming, in that it wouldn't harm the town at all.

Your logic about being pissed over your claim is faulty. Everyone in thread was pissed at your claim, are we all scum?

[curiouskarmadog]

nice deflect, and no..not everyone in thread said "I was happy about the the wagon and pissed at the claim"....also, "are we all scum"? no sir(s), you dont get to put yourself in that lot...

[curiouskarmadog]

@ckd - I don't know why you're taking the tough guy attitude with me. It has been many days since we saw something that wasn't an anti-prod post from you. Do you think people are being unreasonable?

you are not the only one who has said something, why do you think it was directly solely to you?

I think it was because you posted right after me. I understand life gets in the way and I'm not calling you scummy for it really. Just noting that I do expect content at some point (which you appear to be delivering now, so it's moot)

being fustrated with someone who cant/wont/avoding a thread is understandable....FoSing (ie saying they are scummy) is a different matter (st.k) especially if they didnt follow up with your other current games to see if this was a common thread or just for this game....(I will address this again) during the update.

[Vi]

curious vi, when should I have claimed? You can shake your finger all you want, but you just avoided lynching town.

You should have claimed when someone asked for a claim, at least if vanilla. With power roles (and scum) things get a little messier but etc.

So many walls, eyes are bleeding

I still don't know--WHAT I'M SINGING ♪
We're so loud and--INCOHERENT ♪
Boy this oughta--BUG YOUR PARENTS--YEAH ♪

-I actually like nopoint. I thought he came out looking better in his spat with Equinox. I like the too many town reads point too. It helped me catch scum before

In unsurprising news, I don't agree with any of this - considering I had the same problem (too many Town reads) when I voted npau. If I have Town reads on {ckd, Equinox, VP Baltar?, sottyrulez}, then etc. npau dodging pointed questions after his Equinox+ckd case didn't take hold and St.K's general existence actually lends itself to this a bit.

To address your questions before you make them--
*ckd - I can vouch that ckd has been busy elsewhere. All things considered I think I'm willing to keep him in the watch-but-more-likely-Town bin.
*Equinox - etc.
*VP Baltar - Given how often it happens I'm actually kind of unnerved that VPB is agreeing with me, especially after last game. What gives?
*sottyrulez - I don't like about half of what they're saying (which is about 30% less disagreement than before, so etc.). But if they're scum they're faking a lot better than last game.

[VP Baltar]

VP Baltar - Given how often it happens I'm actually kind of unnerved that VPB is agreeing with me, especially after last game. What gives?

Perhaps you're of a different alignment this time. Though I haven't really agreed with all of your points. I know you've forgotten with all of the Sottyrulez wall wars, but I actually called Equinox scummy first.

Also, I've read very little of these walls today. Hypocrisy at its finest!