Mafia on Holy Orders (Game Over!)

[Plum]

VOTE: Wraith

I can see right through you.

[Plum]

Also Plum, I promise no post restrictions will be feigned here. ^^

Huh? Have I played with you before/you referencing something I should recognize?

[Plum]

It was a marathon game during the moving day. Jahudo's Bastard Modding.

Oh, that. That was a while ago, heh

[Plum]

There's no excuse for being a suckup to the Mod

unless I'm the Mod

. What do you have in mind and why, eh?

[Plum]

I suspect some of the players that haven't posted yet don't know that day 1 has begun, as there was no notification as such. Minor town tell for all of them.

Mod: can you notify the players that haven't posted yet that the game has begun?

Why would scum be more likely to realize Day 1 began than scum?

Man I want to see a VI vs. VI fight.
I don't think I've ever really got to see one of those before.
We could even take side betting.

I want to stop that sort of thing before it starts, but it looks like it's too late.

Town Cohesion will come through people waking up and performing as a collective as opposed to subjective. WE should pressure together, tunnel together, FoS together, and lynch together. I want not one to be held accountable, but all. This will root out scum if we do it, mark my words.

How? And I note you broke your own three-paragraph policy in the very post you suggested it. Classy.

@Socrates: First off, I'm not on the wagon, which you seem to have missed. I don't want him lynched but I'm not fighting actively to diffuse it or anything - it's just an early-day wagon and those are always good. I don't think he has said enough to draw a conclusion, yet, honestly, although I'm leaning towards town. What do you think? Is he town or scum?

Thats exactly what I mean by riding shotgun on the wagon. You aren't going to push the wagon, but yay pressure!

Yes, this. The Townies who aren't policy-lynch pushers are more likely to be the sort who take the theory arguments against policy lynches in general seriously and fight all policy lynches staunchly. But the very reaction:

@Socrates: First off, I'm not on the wagon, which you seem to have missed. I don't want him lynched but I'm not fighting actively to diffuse it or anything - it's just an early-day wagon and those are always good.

It gives me strong feeling of 'who me? but I didn't do anything scummy at all; how could you suspect me if I'm not on the wagon?!' out of scum who thought he'd made a safe choice which wouldn't draw undue attention.

I don't happen to like his analysis of Ani's logic here, either:

1. Furcolow acts scummy as town.
2. Furcolow is in this game and acting scummy.
3. You want to policy lynch him for his behavior, even though he acts this way as town.
4. You want to lynch town.

Ani never said Furcolow acts scummy as Town; he said that he provides poor reasoning and acts scummy across the board. He never said Furcolow acting scummy = Furcolow Town. The implication made, that Ani had reason to believe that Furcolow was, due to his behavior, Town, is completely illegitimate.

Not sure if I'm on the right track or not, but UNVOTE: Wraith
VOTE: Friend

Re: Furcolow and Ani. I dislike Furcolow more. Furcolow's shifting around of his strong suspicion seems, well, doesn't seem as organic as Town-based play like this I've seen, possibly because it hasn't been accompanied by votes, just provoking suggestions. His aggression is related and annoying, but by itself it's not a sign of anything. Shoving various things in our faces - like that he's never been lynched as scum - is distracting and WIFOM-y; if he's doing it on purpose as Town, he's being disingenuous. The three-paragraph policy and related suggestions seemed to test his ability to direct the Town at this stage in the game; in any case, the policy itself is a poor idea; I'm still thinking about its scumminess, but I should have some more words on that soonish. It all may be a front on Furc's part, but I'm starting to dislike playing with him, at any rate; it may get better. Ani seems null, maybe slightly Townish from what I recall of his play in other games.

PREVIEW EDIT:

Why is this bad? The wagon isn't going to lead to a lynch on page 5. I'm obviously not trying to distance myself from the wagon, and pressure leads to information which leads to finding scum.

Who says you're not trying to distance yourself from the wagon? I think it's eminently possible.

[Plum]

@plum, pardon you not liking my play so far, and I'm not familiar with "disingenuous". dis- usually implies negative connotations, and ingenious is definitely what I am, as I have a very high I.Q.

I'm assuming you're saying that if I'm town my mental capability is in question, and I take offense to that. I appreciate you saying that I have strong ability, or at least implying it.

No, I think you're intelligent enough (wait, were you the one mentioning his ACT scores after I died in Stars Aligned II or was that someone else?).
I actually think we both may have used the word incorrectly. I mean that you're making a poor estimation of what will actually help the Town, if you're doing it in an attempt to help the Town.

Soc - fair enough, I suppose.

I am admitting that I'm not trying to distance myself from the wagon. I've said I support the wagon. That's the opposite of distancing.

Ani never said Furcolow acts scummy as Town; he said that he provides poor reasoning and acts scummy across the board. He never said Furcolow acting scummy = Furcolow Town. The implication made, that Ani had reason to believe that Furcolow was, due to his behavior, Town, is completely illegitimate.

The only meta ani had of Furc was his TOWN META. That means that he had only seen Furcolow acting scummy AS TOWN.

Saying that you're supporting the wagon while also screaming 'but I'm not actually voting him!' screams distancing from something which you are actually actively pushing.

When you made that post, the bit you commented on, Ani had mentioned Furc's meta in general. He said "I'm lynching you because I've taken a look in several other games, and you have provided

terrible

reasoning in every game, and you act even more scummy than I DO." He made no mention of whether Furc had been Town, scum, or a mix in those several games from which the meta had been drawn. He implied no likeliness of Furc to be Town in consideration of his play, only that he consistently provided poor reasoning and acted scummy.

[Plum]

Oh, so you don't support the Furc wagon, officially?

Good to know.

In any case, Soc is right. Whether or not Furc's even been scum here, his point was not that he had a distinct Townread on Furc and wanted to lynch him. The point was that Ani wanted to lynch him regardless of alignment. He certainly had intimated no specific read on Furc at that point (and if Furc's only been Town, not deviating from a meta of providing poor reasoning and acting scummy wouldn't be an indication that he's Town, just that he's still Furc with certain tendencies which may be null in Furc's play).

[Plum]

My suggestion, as I think my original statements implied, included not throwing out WIFOM-generating statements such as 'I've never been lynched as scum' at the Town; it's generally distracting and confusing, more than enough to outweigh any reactions you think you're going to get out of it. Also good options for Town would probably include not wasting time getting people talking about a three-paragraph policy.

Incidentally, you never answered my question re: that policy:

Town Cohesion will come through people waking up and performing as a collective as opposed to subjective. WE should pressure together, tunnel together, FoS together, and lynch together. I want not one to be held accountable, but all. This will root out scum if we do it, mark my words.

How?

[Plum]

Zwets, you should adopt this posting style more often. I agree with you in general and it's put Beefster on my map thar.

[Plum]

HAPPY SCUMDAY PLUMZ

AWWW FATE.

[Plum]

What's the scum motivation for defending Beefster?

[Plum]

CATCHUP POST INCOMING

Or... he doesn't think it's a good lynch? Why does every time someone opposes a lynch have to be scum-driven? Should all townies mindlessly bandwagon based off of what one or two people say?

Or, Friend would say, Soc is 'horribly misguided'. So Friend, what do you think now: Is Soc horribly misguided, bussing, or distancing from a bandwagon on a Townie, and why?

Yeah, VIs do suck, but they can be town too. Lynching them on policy is not right.

I've decided that ani's caps lock rage is giving me a towntell, somewhat.

unvote, vote: mothrax

I'm following the smoke!

What is THIS supposed to be? A nigh-random vote? Given that as a whole we haven't a clue what smoke/light means/does and that you explicitly said that speculation is probably not good (at the same time you indulged in speculation . . .)? You only explain the vote/give it some context/a case considerably after this was posted. Really, what possessed you to vote Mothrax? Elaborate. Then again . . . I have a nagging suspicion that your speculation is closest to what's actually going down. Ugh.

Soc's Post #278 is a thing of beauty. I have nothing to add but that Seb should get a taste of rope now.

Back to activity. Haven't fully read yet- any amazing revelations that go against Furc being scum?

I am not a medic.

unvote

glad noone voted me when I voted me
I was voting me because I wouldn't ever do that as scum
therefore, I am not scum
I already knew that, but I was trying to prove it to you all

I was also doing it for another reason. I wanted to see if I would get smoke on that post. I was "taking one for the team", sort of.

Second reason is halfway decent; first reason is more of that WIFOM crud I suggested STRONGLY you not attempt. Against my will I have a slight townread on you so for the love of everything holy (ha) stop. It's distracting and counterproductive.

Wild Speculation Incoming: Furcolow is a town power role masquerading VI to avoid a night kill.

If you actually believed that

why

would you say so out loud in the thread? Huh? Why did you say that, please???

ok, guys, i'm going to go ahead and claim
I am just a townie. This wagon on me will be a mislynch if I am lynched. I wanted to act blue and draw a hit to help our team, but this pressure is unfounded and unwanted.

All right, this is it. You've just made yourself into an active liability to the Town as opposed to a latent one, assuming you're Town at all. If there's a Vig. You there. Shoot this fellow. Please.

I might be up for a Wraith power lynch if the Friend wagon dies, since people seem to not care the sebguer is scum.

But I do! Come on, people, we still have about 2/3 of Day 1 left! No need to go all powerlynchy. It should not even enter our minds. Deadline is

not

one of our problems right now.

In other news: Hey Plum! Where'd you go? Post in this game! Its where all the cool kids are at! Don't think I didn't see you post in your Hydra.

Crowded weekend; I had to catchup some huge amount. But I missed you <3

The heck.

I'm under the impression that Vezo is a major VI. BUT.

UNVOTE: Friend
VOTE: Vezo

The above post. Is. Unless I am missing something as I've yet to catch up (crowded weekend). SO TREMENDOUSLY SCUMMY MY EYEBALLS MIGHT POP OUT OF THEIR SOCKETS AND RUN AWAY TO CANADA. Even as a joke, this

reeks

of scum. REEKS.

Friend wagon is good. Seb wagon would be great if it happened. VEZO WAGON IS BACK ON! (I'm not sure about Wraith wagon. Distancing/whatever from the Friend wagon isn't good but it's not v. conclusive. Maybe I need to reread Friend, see if this is any worse/better . . .)

BUT Wraith deflecting the 'you're going to flip Town?' question IS major scumpoints.

Dingdingdingding Fate

.

WRAITH what was your gambit?

It's a bit quick for L-2 maybe? I'd be down for a Wraith lynch after that fiasco BUT wanna hear from Seb and VEZO who's scummier than . . . too many scummy persons here; if there's a Vig, while Furc has just made himself an active liability I'd sympatize with you shooting him but it's not the first priority against the slew of people too scummy to know what to do with. Over and out.

[Plum]

V/LA until Friday; I don't expect any access.

[Plum]

Plum didn't even

get

prodded, yo. But she's gonna be reading up &c. in a sec, okay?

[Plum]

Seriously need answers here. Is there anyone who has played/studied the behavior of Town-Vezo vs. scum-Vezo? Hmmm? Because this is the sort of VI/scumminess I wish I could read but am simply reading as scummy because I have no feel for it . . .

Wraith gets NOTHING SAID ABOUT HIM AT ALL.
THEN I STATE SOMETHING.
*WHAMMO*
MASSIVE WAGON.

I DIDNT EVEN MAKE SPECIFICS.

I MEAN HELL, THE FIRST THING THAT SERIOUSLY BOTHERED ME WAS ON PAGE 7.
WHICH WAS SEVEN. PAGES. BEFORE. I SAID ANYTHING.
THE GAME GREW TO TWICE AS BIG, AND NO ONE SAID A DAMN WORD.

I DROP ONE LINE AND ONE VOTE AND SUDDENLY I AM THE PARAGON OF ALL THAT IS HOLY?!

YES HE WAS SCUMMY.
BUT IF THAT IS SO TRUE FOR THE REST OF YOU...THEN WHY SIT BACK AND BASK TIL ME?

...

THIS WAGON IS BUS.

OR OPPORTUNISM.

Why am I feeling very little Iecerint presence in this game? Is this a bad, scummy sign? Tabs will be kept.

Gotta iso Wraith. He's acting quite odd lately...

Considering this comes after all of the above, my gut twitches. Could be harmless, could be scum not willing to commit to a position on a delicate wagon. Also was pacman voting anyone this period or what, because I see multiple FOSes and no votes. Oh, voting Furc, was it? Hmm?

How could you guys let the Vezo wagon die like that?

I see a wraith wagon full of townies. And a vez wagon full of scum.

Wraith not talking about the wagon makes me think that he knows all people from his wagon are town so he doesn't want to lynch them.

The above bit, where Vezo discredits the wagon on him with no reasoning stated leaves a BAD taste in my mouth.

After that votecount, I'm a whoooole lot more comfortable being with the people on the Wraith wagon than the vezo wagon.

unvote, vote: Wraith

Then again . . .

No no you idiot.
I got smoke for saying something bad about the game.
If I say something good I should get light or the good stuff who is it called.

Tone here makes me think Town. Violently against my will, but I'm starting to doubt myself. With a Town so chock-full of noise and lacking directed content, two miserable bandwaons on Town is entirely a possibility. Ughhhh. Then again, Me-Weird claims meta that this isn't Vezo-Town -

@Me=Weird, source(s)?

The post above me is AtE. No good.
Blergh, no idea on what to do. I'm not hammering wraith; his actions while over pressure haven't been good, but vezo's deffenses were poor, even for such a poor wagon as his was at the beginning.

*headdesk* This indicisiveness is reading leaning scum, not leaning town read out of it. The 'I don't want to hammer' syntax and tone especially seem to be the product of not wanting to be saddled with blame which might lead to suspicion. Doesn't even give an idea why he doubts Wraith as Town, just that he doubts Vezo as not being a better wagon - mentality is scum debating between two competing wagons? I DO NOT LIKE.
Wait, why? THIS IS AN IMPORTANT QUESTION. Aso pacman's next post pander to Soc prodding him about aving his vote on Furc BUT doesn't commit to anything WHIILE incriminating Wraith - as if he's afraid he might have to hammer soon or risk suspicion.

FATE I love you, but my enthusiasm for you is dampened by your jump on Furc there at the hight of the Faith thing at L-1. Really makes me take a step back from my EZPASS on you not getting scrutinized Day 1, given stuff. BUT the revote is consistent with you in general . . . hmmmm.

BUT pacman is still dithering.

furcolow's excuse for bandwagoning = shameless and suspicious

This. I still hold to the Townread BUT.

FINALLY Pacman hammers, BUT due to dithering he earns no townpoints. Nice try, scumbag.

-The remaining battery power was converted!

Hmmmm? I rise my eyebrows. Does this mean . . . if we don't manage a lynch in the required time, there'll be no 'Night' kill? I'm not into testing this out but ye gods, I want more clues to this mechanic so we can exploit it. This is Vi toying with us

what the fuck
i said wraith is town
bandwagon me when i was right? he was green dumbasses

Also not good, also not enough to shift you over to the scum side.

Vote: Beefster

. He was my favorite wagon yesterday until Wraith's shenanigans.

Someone should show me the scummy thing that Furc did during the Wraith wagon.

I spy with my little eye a player who is not interested in examining a meaty part of Day 1 and hasn't contributed new stuff in how long? Shenanigans. My finger of suspicion itches.

VOTE: PACMAN

I THINK MY WORK HERE IS DONE.

Marry me?

Unvote; Vote: Me=Weird

.

I'd forgotten about you.

Dude. Not helping my feelings about your alignment. In context. Brrrr.

vezok is playing to town meta.

Sources. ME=WEIRD STILL HASN'T GIVEN HIS, HAS HE? OR I MISSED SOMETHING?

Vezo MAY still be an awesome wagon.

Iecerint 613-619 is a bunch of mechanics speculation and no content. ARGH.

VOTE: PACMAN

Tell your friends to do the same. It's the cool thing to do. Believe me. I'm cool.

[Plum]

Quiet!!!!!

Seriously. The noise/content ratio is horrendous. There are too many people with one annoying playstyle to deal with, and that's AFTER the deaths of Wraith and Fate.

This is sad.

Nothing productive will happen when everything is like this. When everyone is spending most of his time yelling at the people he suspects instead of sitting down and doing some analysis. Bad things happen. It becomes a miasma of hostility.

No scumhunting will get done if we each devote ourselves exclusively to catfighting.

I want everyone to list three different living players who have done suspicious things and briefly describe why each action noted impressed upon you that the actor was scummy. Please also list one Townread; you needn't explain why, but please list anyway.

I would also like everyone to lay off the all-caps. Too much in one game really does work like shouting; it impresses but it drowns out useful, thoughtful conversation.

We need sanity here. We need calm, not bluster. We do not need blathering. If you seriously believe something, state your point clearly once. Do not spend a page spamming about it, nor spamming in response to someone else.

Too much noise and we drown out the sound of scum. That's what's going on now - scum taking advantage of a Town which cannot hold itself together enough to focus on collective scumhunting.

This uninformed majority demands unity. Now.

I was going to just get together all the sanish people who haven't been infected by this and on whom I have mild Townreads, and the new replacement, to help me restore order and sweep through doing proper analytica scumhunting. I'd have taken Socrates, SocioPath, curiouskarmadog - but then I realized that it wouldn't be enough. It wouldn't change things nearly enough.

This is a call to the entire Town, not just to my Townreads, nor any other single player or group. Everyone must participate in making this Town a scumunting machine which is productive, which can help sort the grain from the chaff. Otherwise the scum will have an easy time hiding out among Townies who aren't willing to modify their playstyles enough to make the game workable.

Thanks you.

[Plum]

And?

[Plum]

I'm flexible on the listing scummy players but not on the playing in a way condusive to good collective scumhunting. How's that sound?

And anything in particular worry you which causes you to doubt my Townieness?

[Plum]

My goodness, I don't need to be a beacon of light, I am just frustrated and fed up with the overwhelming stuff in this game.

[Plum]

As scum I dunno that I even would be this frustrated - I might, might not be. All I know is that this is stymieing my ability to connect with the game in a content-productive way, and I can't read anyone now.

[Plum]

It's not necessarily suspicion, but I'm certainly not getting a warm fuzzy feeling from your play, and I often get that from you when we play together. I have reservations about you bceause of stuff I mentioned and the general vibe I just described and I kinda wish I didn't because you're one of the few players here not using a variation of the obnoxious/annoying playstyle.

[Plum]

Pacman.

[Plum]

My spam was so that a hypothetical player in charge of warm/yucky light messages could give us information about how to interpret them, if you didn't quite follow what I was doing.

I have an exam tomorrow, but will do your exercise after that.

Yes, but I felt that too substantial a portion of your play was mechanics-focused as opposed to scumhunting focused. Reading you in ISO that feeling is tamped down a bit but some things are still a bit odd.

Vote: Beefster

. He was my favorite wagon yesterday until Wraith's shenanigans.

Where did the LL vote play into all that, then?

AGAR: The mothrax case looks fairly decent, though I admit the only part that moves me so very much is the fact that he strongly attacked ani for pushing a policy lynch at all (the rest is less conclusive and would seem to go either way, and I'm not seeing too heavy a contradiction).

Funnily enough, about a month ago, I'd crucify you for asking for this.

Hmmmm, hmmmm. Rings honest, slight townread on those sentences.

LL

, what's your read on me now/as of page 28?

Scums: Vezo, I've already said why. His posts since then haven't helped him. Furcolow. I've also said why for him. And I guess Friend, but I'm about to check into him. Either a case will be up, or a different scumpick.
Town: You. That post is why.

What about that post rang Townie to you?

Our problem this game: The town is WAY TOO SPLIT
Our solution: consolidate around Furcolow

Let me be your voice of reason lol

It's sad, but I have heard worse ideas.

especially =/= because

Your pendantry amuses me.

And me as well, but against my will my read on Friend has shifted from scummy to just plain afsbjdglsj[p;efjbe;.

scumreads should be obvious:
Furc for the reasons previously listed. His actions late D-1 are redic. And his defense is weak at best.
AGar- Regardless of actions, he seems to be acting as Plum!lapdog. His hipocracy in rtfts is also noted.
Other than that, You and Soc are up there... this whole cry for help/unison while on the surface, townish, reads as almost rehearsed, like scum planned it out.
And as for townreads, you aren't priviledged enough to have that.

Why is Soc one of your scumreads?

Furc IS Town, unless I'm much mistaken.

VOTE: PACMAN

I THINK MY WORK HERE IS DONE.

Marry me?

Say it IN CAPS LIKE YOU MEAN IT.
OR IT WOULD NEVER WORK OUT.

MARRY ME???

I like CKD's intro post, goes a fair way towards mitigating the Sebguer read.

Sebguer's play was scummy. Just because a replacement comes in and acts less scummy doesn't change that.

Yes, but if a replacement comes in and acts actively Town it can be a legitimate basis for revising or revisiting a scumread.

Syntax? Tone? How the hell does this part of your attack work?
In fact, I wasn't totally sure about Wraith. It was annoying to see him just whining about don't caring about the game anymore. It was scummy too, and altough I made the wrong call there, his attitude was really hurting us. His defense posts were just, either trying to push the other wagon, or AtEing on the form of "oh well lynch me and see me flip town". NOT putting good reasoning on either way.

The post above me is AtE. No good.
Blergh, no idea on what to do. I'm not hammering wraith; his actions while over pressure haven't been good, but vezo's deffenses were poor, even for such a poor wagon as his was at the beginning.

"I'm not hammering Wraith" reads "I don't want to be saddled with the stigma of having hammered Wraith" (yes, there's a degree of subjectivity here, but a phrasing like "I don't want to vote Wraith because I'm not very sure at all he's scum". Moreover instead of explaining at all the you doubted he was scum you throw out a weakish attack on someone else to justify staying off the wagon - it did not seem like sincere doubt, but more like you'd not reached a conclusion within yourself whether it would be better to hammer Wraith despite the consequences on increased scrutiny Day 1 or whether it would be better to bolster the Vezo wagon and if Wraith would go, someone else would take the scrutiny. Spending your vote the entire day on Furc (as opposed to say Vezo, whom you also suspected and was an alternate wagon with potential, unlike Furc) gives me bad feelings about the sincerity of your scumhunting in this game as a whole. Together these give the impression of a scumbag who doesn't want the blame of hammering Wraith but not really because he doubts his read on Wraith, just because he's still debating whether Vezo is a better wagon, whoile voting Furc over both of them. The continued reiteration of the same points on Wraith seem to be there to justify a potential jump to the Wraith wagon while never seeming to come to new thoughts or conclusions over whether this major wagon was worth your vote or not. Seriously, every time you say 'he's AtEing but I'm still unsure and anyway (player) is being scummy so I dunnnnno'. Every one. This rings of scum unsure whether he wants to commit to the wagon that late, not Town actively trying to figure out whether Wraith is or isn't scum. Anyway, when did you go from 'Wraith is scummish but I'm unsure' to 'Wraith

Also, many of her points are based on "tone". Is it more of the hunch-type, or is there something that can be explained here? And if the second, explain.

Second, and done above.

You name a top 3 scum, to vote someone outside the top 3. Why are you voting me then?

This feels scummy to me. It shows that pacman wasn't reallly paying attention to the thread and tries to invalidate Soc's vote.

unvote, vote: Pacman

Not to mention he didn't notice that Zwets meant to vote me when he voted Vi. Also, caught skimming Pacman's ISO:

@Soc: I thought tiny text was forbidden.

Hoping for a Modkill? It can be read different ways; this at least is mostly gut but I dislike it muchly.

Everyone categorically dismissing meta as a tool: You're partly right, but meta does have a place and denying that it does at all is ridiculous. Some people have playstyle things they do as both Town and scum, for example. Those are nulltells, even if in general they could be considered scumtells. I think denying the thoughtful uses of meta is an easy way to dismiss and argument without arguing it.

SPYREX????

I'll hold to CKD's quickmeta of Vezo as a decent reason to hold my overwhelming desire to suspect him for the moment.

[Plum]

EBWOP: NO NEED TO PROD, Vi!

[Plum]

Uh, no; I saw what Spy originally posted and it was basically Vi's votecount above; Spy's the backup Mod, so.

And I would delete that post except phpBB3, etc. ~Vi

[Plum]

Pacman: I see your explanations in response to me. It doesn't change my opinion of the instances I called out very much. Your interpretation is clearly along the lines of the impression you initially tried to give off, but it doesn't change the fact that when I read the statements themselves I see the very possible scum motivations for them.

[Plum]

Mhm. You've not convinced me that they're not scummy, though; I'm sorry.

[Plum]

Sorry! Catching up.

[Plum]

Also I didn't even get the prod yet - again!

>.> ~Vi

[Plum]

MOTHRAX: Is there any flavor thar beyond that? Why track AGar, pray?

[Plum]

MOTHRAX: Is there any flavor thar beyond that? Why track AGar, pray?

not much no, my abilities (tracking, voting, etc...)

And I have been very vocal about having a scumread on AGar since D1. Why not track my biggest suspect.

That's funny. Because the sample Town PM doesn't list voting as an ability at all, and my PM (which might or might not be the same as the Sample PM) doesn't list voting as an ability at all.

EDIT: Socrates is right, in any case.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: mothrax

[Plum]

The best thing we can do right now is all shut up,

don't

talk about anyone else, and speedlynch mothrax ASAP.

[Plum]

The best thing we can do right now is all shut up,

don't

talk about anyone else, and speedlynch mothrax ASAP.

so you want to deprive town of more information?
At least pacman is being sensible and not just taking socrates for his word...

I want to shut everyone up until you're lynched. It's not so hard to understand, scumbag.

I don't want to see anyone posting below this except to hammer mothrax (and if mothrax wants to spam he can knock himself out). Pacman, that includes you. Soc, you may be right.

----------[]

[Plum]

VOTE: pacman

Still an epic good wagon guys, Major flip-flop here (did he explain clearly what made him change read on Furc or did he merely pander to charts and Town opinion? That uestion shouldn't need answering). Besides - we just got a scumflip and instead of looking for connections to him pacman prefers to speculate the two players are practicing mutual bussing (which he then retracts)? Uh huh.

Not sure I'm for massclaim. I'd guess that the ineptness of mothrax's claim is due more to his mafia skillz, or lackings therein, than to anything else. Envoy of Good = Tracker had something obviously wrong with it, yeah, but that was a function of mothrax not being able to lie convincingly on his feet. I guess this probably has some roots in a poorly organized scumteam but am not sure a massclaim would really benefit us in thatway enough to counteract the general downsides of a premature massclaim. This stands unless Soc has some POWERFUL WIZARDLY reasons for massclaim.

Battery conversion is a bit odd - I'd read it as actually powering the kill, but Iec's conclusion almost has to be wrong by its very nature - I can't see Vi putting in a mechanic which punished Town for lynching before deadline and rewarded dragging the Day all the way to a completely drained battery. Hmmm. I had an idea

but

it's not it - might be on the right track but I'm not seeing everything.

[Plum]

????????

CKD. I'm afraid you may have just learned all the townpoints you earned back after your predecessor's performance.

[Plum]

V/LA through Saturday Night/Sunday morning. Jewish New Year and all that.

[Plum]

Dodged another prod !

Catching up soonish.

[Plum]

pacman, maybe he has secret role-related reasons. Ever thought of that?

Yes I did, and so I asked if he could say at the very least the only scenario making vezo obvscum. That way, I would at least try and understand why vezo is unlikely scum. Just "vezo is obvtown, I can't explain but plz trust me" might be dangerous in case Soc is manipulative scum, or even confused town, so I wanted to ger at least a little part of why should I remove my vote.
This interaction is actually confusing me. I'd like to hear something from Soc before unvoting.

Do people not read?

Soc is Town. All the people trying to insinuate stuff about him today are being disingenuous, or acting as if they are. That's scummy. That was my beef with CKD earlier, but pacman, insinuating that Soc is manipulative scum,

especially

in a case involving roles and claiming, is a bad idea and v. scummy.

Bleh.
Furc, I think we're not outguessing the mod. That post had more than "I dislike both wagons". Plus, we don't know what glow means FFS.

Socrates you know what I am going to claim.
\I was a vanilla at the beginning but on day 2 I got a power. No. I won't say what power.

This roleclaim is confusing... why can't you say that power I'm wondering?

DIE ROLEFISHING SCUM DIE.

Need I say more?

Damn, I hate soo much when people say things of this sort without explaining. I'd like to know why is vezo confirmedtown, but it seems like in this game it's just "follow Soc" or "follow Plum", and anyone opposing is obvscum and needs getting lynched.
So, why is vezo confirmedtown? Or, if you can't answer this, which is the only one scenario in which vezo is scum?

Um, dude. Remember what happened last time we (by which I mean, the Town minus players like you) followed Soc? Oh yeah,

we lynched scum

which Soc

guaranteed

. You're rolefishing and you also seem mucho disappointed to lose a mislynch candidate which might've gotten your neck spared today, huh?

More coherent thoughts on other stuff I guess when the RAGE AT PACMAN over the past few pages fades. That might be after a sweet Pacman lynch.

[Plum]

Also, Plum, I don't think everyone is insinuating that Soc is anti-town, that's a huge stretch imo.

Maaaybe, but the fact that I'm seeing it at all in this case is a major WTH, so. I said 'all the people who are', and there have been more than one, as I recall, so.

I'll respond to Pac soon, but I remain

mostly

unconvinced that he's not very scummy and a majorly good lynch today. Also pacman, using the term tunnelling, with its negative connotations, when the tunnelling is justified. Your response to my rolefishing accusation is horribly inadequate and yes, I

can

just burden you for Soc's proficiency because it's not proficiency but a very good indication that he's Town in the know,

which you acknowledge, basically/reluctantly, in your claim post

.

i'll paraphrase:
plum: "pacman, poisoning the well on soc, our most prolific protown poster is scummy"
pacman's next post: "i'm a townie. if soc isn't protown and is scum we lost!"

furcolow's assessment: pacman doesn't read
opinion on a lynch target: need to find a different one, though I don't KNOW that. Just my gut.

Plum's assessment: Pacman is scrambling because he's done scummy stuff and feels trapped between what a pro-Town approach should look like and what his previous approach was - hence the quick reversals/
Opinion on a lynch target: I like this one. You've planted seeds of doubt, Furc, but.

[Plum]

Yeah but pacman did that much much worse Day 1 which is part of why I want him dead.

Furc, give people, especially Soc, time to respond before you hammer? It wouldn't be a tragedy if someone did now, but holding off for a bit would be perfectly fine.

[Plum]

The fruit. Hence the title

[Plum]

I heard there's something called a plumbob used I think in carpentry - something akin to a level, if I recall?

[Plum]

You've lost all your town points with these latest attacks. Now my read on you is null.[/b]

Gotta reread Locke, but I still don't find him particularly scummy. Mostly lurker, but nothing yet.[/quote]

Getting Townpoints from you is like ... nevermind, all the metaphors I thought of went the way of the metaphorgotten. Point is.

THEN AGAIN Locke has done barrels of nothing all game. AND Soc <3

I wanna settle with Pac, but if y'all have reservations elsewhere . . .

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Locke Lamora

[Plum]

vote plum

I gots a feeling, plum, would you characterize yourself as a good scum hunter? why or why not?

No, because I'm often unsure of myself and often wrong; I don't think I'm all that much above average, though occasionally I nail something completely on the head and feel really good about my scumhunting abilities. I

would

classify myself as an above-average Townhunter, but my standards are different/less strict (for example, being wrong classifying someone as Town is sometimes not a real negative in the long run. Being wrong about someone in scumhunting is rarely not negative in the long run). On the other hand, I consider my scumhunting method to be fairly refined; I've been doing it for two years, so it's evolved somewhat.

[Plum]

Hey CKD. What was up in your head when you posted this?:

vote plum

I gots a feeling, plum, would you characterize yourself as a good scum hunter? why or why not?

[Plum]

I was wondering why you dropped it so fast without a word is all,

but

your answer doesn't seem scummy either, so.

[Plum]

Or even 4 scum.

[Plum]

V/LA through M0nday; will try to post before then but no promises

[Plum]

would anyone like to take the effort and going back and putting all the glow and smoke posts together in one post...I dont have the time, but am curious if there is a pattern.

I'll try to do that tonight.

[Plum]

SOCIOPATH?

I'D GUESS NOT

BUT I NEED A REREAD.

[Plum]

Dammit dammit dammit.

Yes, flipped Townies have gotten smoke, and flipped scum has, too. It's NOT alignment-indicative, and I can't say that much about this new 'Shadow' stuff, which my gut wants to say may be a stronger for of whatever smoke does/is. I think three players have gotten it so far today - that almost certainly is not pointing out the entire scumteam. Vezok - I'm willing to trust what Soc said. That said.

@Vezok:

if you know, please tell us what the specific circumstance is in which you could be scum, according to what Socrates said.

V/LA till Saturday Night.

[Plum]

World-seems-darker-around probably has actual in-game ramifications. Similar to mothrax flipping 'DARKENED Shadow Demon' on the amended flip.

Go back to Soctrates' post with the charts, the one he got light for. ANALYZE THIS IN THE THREAD WHILE I'M AWAY IF AT ALL POSSIBLE. I can't be here for religious holiday reasons, but that's what I'd invest my time in if I could over the next few days.

Vote: Me=Weird

I need to reread, but of top three wagons I prefer this slightly over Iecerint I think and a heck of a whole lot over Furcolow.

[Plum]

Guys.

I just got something important.

I received a message, presumably from either a player or one of the "holy ones." Here's what it contained:

bothhaveglow&smoke

otherisscum

vezlie-d2ability

idme/wexplain-GGSCHB

batery->rolepoints

Does anybody know what the GGSCHB means? We need to find out who these players are, because one of them is scum.

This is big.

Vote: Vezok

"vezlie-d2ability" seems to mean 'Vezok lied about his Day 2 ability.

As to the !!!!!!!! players, I have a hunch that Vi edited the signup thread. Perfectly legitimate, but I'm praying that Google has some of it cached.
"batery->rolepoints" = points to give their side roles/kill abilities for mafia (?)

I think

. No, shoot, it doesn't. On the off chance Vi secretly punished the people who didn't post avatars of other players while signing up with a sort of reciprocal removal-of-identity, Ellibereth is a 10-letter option (as is LynchMePls, come to think of it - but he wanted to play as a hydra, so I'd guess Elli over him if I had to). But then again, the slots missing

are

5 and 9, so. AND sottyrulez was /in, officially between Ani/Chrono and SocioPath on the signup thread, so. Definitely him, scratch Elli speculation. That's 10 letters. Number 5 was a pre/-in. Friend is a bunch of steps ahead of me. I've got no clue how we're going to find the other guy, but we can pray that sottyrulez happens to be our guy and not their guy (dunno what happens if we manage to reveal the Mafia power-smoke-glow guy.

So - HAYLEN please explain what I asked of Vezok - under what specific circumstance would it be possible for you/Vezok to be scum as per Soc's post

Vezok is confirmed town, everyone unvote. (There is actually exactly one scenario where Vezo is scum, but it is incredibly unlikely.)

vote: Locke Lamora

for now.

Massclaim is officially useless.

[Plum]

?????

That last post, Iec, I understood not at all.

[Plum]

@ Iecerint - Character limit in the message? That was my first assumption.

Pacman - I'm still trying to finish reading up &c. If you have something specific you want me to answer to, please quote it. Otherwise I'll be catching up/posting other stuff as quickly as I may. Obviously the shiny new stuff caught my attention pretty well, but rest assured.

[Plum]

Okay - we know we have I dunno, I'd guess about two more IRL days before the battery runs out almost certainly - two more votecounts, I should hope. In the next one we

ought

to be getting some indication as to whether we're on the right track with sottyrulez. Unless we're given strong indication by then or receive information or something, I'm inclined to believe the !!!!!!! player's message re: Vezok/Haylen. There

is

a possibility that the message is half-right and from the scum player - I'd put that probability at less than %20, and even in that case

most

of the information from the message is probably on the right track (the !!!!!!!! players being of different alignments and both having shadow/smoke and light abilities is probably true given Iec's post getting both at once, plus certain other things like battery power used to give the !!!!!!! players power is mildly corroborated by Mod wording of lynch scenes and Socrates). The only thing I'd worry about, really is, Vezok having lied about his power - that's clearly the risk we'd be taking believing this stuff. That being said, yesterday we did - by a hair - have the most battery juice left when we lynched, which might account for our exclamation-point guy getting to send us a vital message. Vi wouldn't (ModWIFOM, yes, but the good kind) use a mechanic where the Town was rewarded for dragging out a day, but she (he?)

would

, possibly, use a mechanic where the Town gained a slight edge over scum for lynching without undue delay. I'd guess that both guys get stuff based on battery juice - possibly like points to spend on powers to give out/use themselves - either they both get a set amount of spending money depending on how much juice is left or it's on a sliding scale where the Town-!!!!!!! gets proportionally a few more points if the Town lynches faster. I don't see the benefit in scum-!!!!!!!! spending any of his power allowance on this sort of message, but I see plenty of benefit for Town-!!!!!!!!!! to do so. Hence. Yeah.

Iec, if you're worried, Friend not having noticed that it said Vezok was lying and misread it points against him fabricating it, I should think.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Haylen

[Plum]

No but I'm open.

[Plum]

Iec, have you been

reading

the thread? I may not be posting as much as I should, but at least I'm sorta in the loop at least.

[Plum]

We've gotten loom ominously multiple times, and it's basically agreed that the two external players both have smoke/light. I'm technically not sure about loom ominously/world seems darker around, but I think that's the same category. I think.

We need to figure out a way to prove Haylen or whatnot.

[Plum]

V/LA till Saturday night. Jewish holiday again, but I promise it's the last one for a good long while.

[Plum]

On a scale of one to ten, CKD, how sure are you that Iec is scum??? OH wait big news while I was away.

Iec actually is not-paying-enough-attention for me to credit it as a scumtell.

VOTE: Iecerint

Yeah, really, but I'm perfectly okay switching to Me=Weird if it comes down to it.

FRIEND we need your way to test Haylen discussed and worked out ASAP.

More to come.

[Plum]

Guys.

Iec lynch is good.

[Plum]

Here's hoping I and CKD are wrong, then.

RRRGGHHHHH.

[Plum]

VOTE: Iecerint

Can we do THIS, lynch THIS, and massclaim tomorrow or the next Day? YES. LET'S DO THAT.

[Plum]

...

I'm willing to hold on Haylen, BUT being as she's outed we need her results and will continue to reevaluate her based on play and her actions.

[Plum]

VOTE: Iecerint

Can we do THIS, lynch THIS, and massclaim tomorrow or the next Day? YES. LET'S DO THAT.

So you have nothing to say in the latest developments?
Oh dear...

Excuse me? The latest developments did nothing to indicate that my best choice for lynch yesterday was any worse. Haylen slipped my mind for a minute, but either way I was the first vote of the new Day and there as no risk in me putting out an initial top-lynch-choice vote. AT ALL. Furthermore you don't seem to have much to say about the latest developments: You admit to being wrong about Me=Weird (no duh, Sherlock), say that you've gone from Townish to neutral on Iec (but not

why

), don't see waiting for the Tracker claim as a big deal anyway (unless you meant something else, because your wording there was too close to incomprehensible for my liking), and manage an 'oh well' comment on CKD's musing. Well, that really was SOMETHING to say on the latest developments. The only thing close to content was accusing Chrono of sheeping on the Iec wagon (and honestly, again, that

had not happened

by the time of the post of mine you quoted). TL;DR, you're a hypocrite and a scummy one at that.

I'll admit Iecerint did neighborize me, but scum can neighborize. I will not vote him at this point, as I'm sure there are other candidates. Unvote Iecerint, Plum/Sociopath. There is no way in hell I am scum, either, as I was trying to lynch Iecerint before this happened, and was part of the case on Mothrax/Socrates pushed for me as town.

As town, and considering I was not on the M=W wagon, I should get to pick today's lynch.
Anyone against that?

First of all, do everything you can with your Neighbor topic to figure out if Iec is likely scum or not. Second of all, even if you were confirmed Town I wouldn't be comfortable literally letting you dictate todays lynch. I wasn't on the M=W wagon either, whoop-de-do.

UNVOTE:

I'm disliking Haylen a lot right now, but really need time to think about it because long school day and such = mush brain right now.

Furcolow, answer me this. Doesn't it seem unbalanced that Scum would be given a gravedigger ability? Scum would already know who's going to die. It would seem a tad bit unfair and unbalanced.

There are plenty of answers to that. First of all you may be lying through your teeth and have gotten a Track-type ability through something unrelated to a Grave-Digger ability (though coming up with it on your own is less than likely). More likely, the scum !!!!!! controls Nightkills and doesn't have communications with the team proper, so guessing a Nightkill would come into effect. That actually seems EXTREMELY plausible. The fact that you make this argument is worrissome, smacks somewhat of scum antsy about a claim not working out properly.

Chronopie, Pacman, CKD, SocioPath, Haylen
I want you all to pick someone from this list. Consider adding Plum. I am null on her, leaning town. Nearly null, I guess. AGar is semi-cleared by mothrax, Iecerint DID neighborize me, I know my role, and that leaves the rest of the list.
Chronopie I am ok with being lynched
Pacman I have interpretted as a VI, but he could be a scum VI very easily
CKD would surprise me if he flipped town
SocioPath is probably town, but he hasn't contributed enough to fully convince me. He likely is just good at imitating his meta as all slots.
Haylen feels like squirmy scum that has replaced into a slot. I also have no idea how she knew Iecerint neighborized me. I don't see how this fits in with the gravedigging claim, either, so I am going to vote to lynch her.

vote: haylen

ebwop: chronopie, unvote. I didn't know Iecerint.

If those are the only choices, PACMAN with a capital PACMAN.

[Plum]

More likely, the scum !!!!!! controls Nightkills and doesn't have communications with the team proper, so guessing a Nightkill would come into effect. That actually seems EXTREMELY plausible.

O_O

also, this theory seems to come out of the blue.

Smoke/glows in vote count updated as of this post ~Vi

Dude, I totally thought I mentioned this as a possibility . . . ah, no, guess I didn't mention it. Basically, Friend's info strongly implied that the !!!!!! players give out powers to different players - that is, they control the PRs their side gets, based probably on something to do with the Battery Power left at the end of the Day. This is also supported by the mothrax flip being edited from Shadow Demon to Darkened Shadow Demon, with Darkened in darker red color. In my mind it was a short lesp from scum-!!!!!!! having the potential to give powers to scum to him deciding on the scumkill itself. Because even if we're in a 4:13, it's really sort of like 5:14. It may also be 3:13, actually; it's hard to say.

My thoughts on Haylen's role will come tomorrow, but I do think that that role would be impossibly hard to play in town hands.

Probably not. I mean some Days it would be pretty touch, but Socrates being killed was unfortunately not surprising to anyone paying attention.

Crud, I meant to unvote in my last post and somehow stuck it in the middle of something quoting. Actually that entire quote thing got completely messed up.

@ pacman -- they already implied that, I think. If we identify who the !!!!!!! is, we get a prize.

Furthermore I'm pretty sure we DID identify at least one, and that it had something to do with the spontaneous Battery-reload we got yesterday.

[Plum]

DUDE.

I've never gotten ANY light or smoke or shadow. I'm so unloved.

[Plum]

Plum, who is scum and why? Why do you seem so "disinterested" in the game?

Well, Socrates died and the Pacman pressure died, and I lost hold on which directions scumhunting was going in and why. I admit that I don't have as good a grasp on the game as a whole as I'd like, which promotes a vicious cycle of moderate disinterest.

That said, I'm going to bet that I was right in the beginning and pacman is scum and CKD probably

isn't

in that case. The reasons for which I found him scummy at first still stand, I should think. As for the rest, Iec isn't a

bad

choice, and Chrono is a meh choice for scum. I have

nothing

on AGar, which is minus points for him. Somewhere in there, I hope, are two scumbags.

VOTE: pacman281292

[Plum]

Hmmmm.

Vi, you have Haylen both voting herself and not voting. Que?

The solution should be obvious, but fixed. ~Vi

It all comes down to me not believing the GRAVEDIGGER ability. I mean. Socrates got Tracker. Iec got some kind of Neighborizer. Both are vaguely standard. Standardish roles involving communication, investigating - not on

guessing who is gonna get killed

.

I just doublechecked, and I think I actually got the ability D3, so, uh, totally nevermind. Eww. <_<

It was late September 7th.

I'm a Neighborizer. I targeted Socrates after I got the ability. That's why I raged lots when he died and called it a crumb.

I was looking through your posts and am trying to line up when abilities got received. Haylen claimed her ability was received as of a certain post (one of the Votecounts). You didn't get this, but could you ask Vi if there is a post as of when you received it? Thanks.

Furc is Town. We're not questioning this; it's threadbased but it's true. People doubting Furc need to redirect their energies.

It's occured to me that we never tried to lynch !!!!!!!!, just !!!!!!!!!!. There's a difference - that said I doubt there's that much difference . . .

Plum calls for town unity in her 656, all in bold. I, despite being in Plum's scumlist, totally endorse that post.

Then why did you never write up a 3 scumreads/1 Townread list like I asked? Or did I miss it somewhere?

As much as I'd hate to say it . . . Pacman being scum with mothrax is a little less likely than I'd like to think.

Vezok is confirmed town, everyone unvote. (There is actually exactly one scenario where Vezo is scum, but it is incredibly unlikely.)

I

still

have no clue what this circumstance is and Haylen has shed no light on the mystery. Blargh.

CKD, i need

as much info

re: your Iec read and how it's been evolving ASAP. Also what changed or whatever between these two posts:

not going to vote quite yet....also want to look over friend and moth again....should be voting today or tomorrow.

I think Furcolow is a bad vote,

also dont like people pointing to flavor (or an unknown mechanic) to indicate scumminess (friend).

going to put my vote here for now....

vote mothrax

, not liking his play..

??????????

Unvote; Vote: mothrax

I guess.

FREE ANSWER QUESTIONS (THESE ARE

NOT

RHETORICAL):

1. Would mothrax say this if pacman was his scumbuddy, after Soc's soft counterclaim or whatever of mothrax? Explain using your own words.

The best thing we can do right now is all shut up,

don't

talk about anyone else, and speedlynch mothrax ASAP.

so you want to deprive town of more information?
At least pacman is being sensible and not just taking socrates for his word...

2. Friend (flipped Town) received information presumably from one of the !!!!!!! players. The information implied that Vezok lied about his Day 2 ability (indicated vezok/Haylen scum). Grave Robber is not similar to Tracker or Neighorizer (and yes, one-shot Neighborizer is the standard, not the variation, so). However, her Track of Iecerint was in fact accurate, as far as we know. Apply Occam's Razor to this problem and explain whether it more strongly imples Haylen-scum or Haylen-Town.

WE'RE NOT GONNA LYNCH CHRONOPIE. DUDE. Also not AGar, Furc.

ALSO. Town alliance those 4? Call me.

[Plum]

We don't know 100% that Socrates got his ability from !!!!!!!!!!s, I don't think.

His call for massclaim Day 2 and his resp[onse to Vezok's claim strongly implies that something similar happened to him.

Okay, Pacman, thanks.

One more thing. I need both Iecerint and Haylen to paraphrase an flavor/formatting they got with their power gain. IN THAT ORDER, PREFERABLY.

[Plum]

Because I trust you

I think

slightly less than I trust Haylen. Due partly to the act that Haylen Tracked you correctly; I'm not completely convinced on her but would prefer to hear from you first. Okay? Also, why do you ask?

[Plum]

Because this exercise is only useful to catch whoever does it second, and it would be nice to catch Haylen.

How about this -- I'll claim my format, but I'll categorically lie (i.e. about font color, or formatting, etc., rather than totally making shit up) about exactly 2-3 aspects of it (or whatever number you want). This way, we'll both be tested.

I'm recommending more than 1 aspect because the scum may have something with a similar format already from their !!! or whatever.

No, this exercise is useful to catch whoever lies. If we have a contradiction . . . In any case, if you're interested in seeing if Haylen's going to get caught, that's fine with me.

You needn't talk about formatting details. If you

really want to

lie about font color, that's fine, if you

must

. I don't want lies about what the words are (in paraphrase where appropriate to avoid rulebreaking), what order they're in, &c. ONLY LIE ABOUT FORMATTING DETAILS IF YOU ASK THE MOD WHETHER YOU CAN CLAIM THOSE DETAILS TRUTHFULLY IN THE THREAD. IF THAT'S CONSIDERED RULEBREAKING, DON'T MENTION THEM AT ALL AND TELL THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH.

If you do lie, you will post your real formatting

as soon as possible after Haylen claims

.

[Plum]

You are mistaken. If I claim it, scumHaylen can just say YEP THAT IS WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE and get away with it.

If we do it my way, she has to ACTUALLY have the same stuff as me for it to work.

I'll send it to Vi before I post it.

Fine, whatever you say. But if the Moderator says that talking about formatting things like font color/size is not allowed, I still want truth on things like wording only.

Also, if you lie on formatting and then Haylen comes in and says 'no it was actually like this' it just gives

you

the opportunity to say YEP THAT IS WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE and get away with it, so.

Basically, I want you claiming first and I don't want you to get away with things by claiming you were lying about formatting. I want what Vi told you in terms of that. Formatting details ice the cake, no more.

IF AT ANY POINT AFTER THIS YOU CLAIM TO HAVE LIED ABOUT WORDING OR OTHER BASIC INTEGRAL MATTERS OF THE ABILITY-RECEPTION PM YOU WILL BE SPEEDLYNCHED IMMEDIATELY. YOU HAVE ONE CHANCE TO SPEAK THE TRUTH ON THEM; NO MORE.

[Plum]

...

Yeah, but you were the one who mentioned lying about formatting originally. I'm more interested in wording/basic formatting (like say order of elements, if applicable) than font color &c. Whatever. We've agreed on something and I'm not interested in this until your claimed wording and whatnot it up there.

Why is AGar in your town club?

Easy. I don't think his interactions with mothrax were bussing; he seemed to be on mothrax honestly for a good long time, even when it wasn't popular, but again not in a way I thought was likely to be a bus. It's certainly possible, though far from probable, that he's scum, but he's not an option for today and I'd like to work with him and the others more cohesively today.

[Plum]

...

SO WHAT'S THE WORDING ON IT???

[Plum]

...

You got it.

That said, Iec, if you can't say anything specific, at least

tell us that you're not allowed to say anything or whatever

. You know DGB's saying about fakeclaims. Obviously anything you are

definitely are allowed to say

would be appreciated.

[Plum]

Sounds fine.

[Plum]

Slightly sleazy indeed.

Haylen, you're up. Correct Iec's mistakes in formatting if applicable, paraphrase, get it vetted by Vi, post. Please.

[Plum]

Hey, I don't need your votes proxied to me specifically. Furcolow is actually the most cleared of all of us, given mothrax's behavior. But that's moot. Having said that, I'd absolutely love to hear what's been going on in that Neighbor quicktopic. Scratch that: if there's even an official way to proxy your votes to me, don't be doing it now.

AND now where's CKD? I NEED the info on his evolving Iec reads from yesterday through today with as much detail as possible ASAP.

HAYLEN I

need

some insight from you regarding what Socrates said when Vezok claimed Day 3:

Vezok is confirmed town, everyone unvote. (There is actually exactly one scenario where Vezo is scum, but it is incredibly unlikely.)

Between this and your Furcolow Track I am disinclined to lynch you. However. Friend's info strongly suggests that you/Vezok lied about the ability you received Day 2. That's bad. If you

can

clear it up we'll all be happier.

P.S. It's okay I guess pacman won't be on the chopping block. Probably still a good idea but I dunno, now, do I?

[Plum]

That said I don't recall pacman posting a whole lot of substance recently. Urgh.

[Plum]

Unless I am completely missing something, then I would presume that Socrates had tracked Vezok and had found he didn't go anywhere and that the only way that could be incorrect would be if Vezok was an action immune Godfather or something like that :/

That makes no sense in context. First of all, presumable there are other scums who could submit the kill or whatever - a null Track doesn't clear anyone anyway. Second of all, Socrates said that Vezok was nigh-confirmed Town

after

Vezok claimed he received an ability Day 2. That means

something about the claim itself

made it clear that Vezok was Town barring one unlikely but apparently specific circumstance.

[Plum]

This is getting nowhere innit.

That said I cannot trust you. Your team might have a Track ability somewhere if you're Mafia or something, so. Friend the Townie had info which indicates you/Vezok are lying. That would indicate scum. I need you to say something which might convince me to disregard that.

[Plum]

Is there anything that I have said or done that makes you believe I might be scum, or is it all Vezok?

NO.

STOP.

ALL THIS TIME.

YOU'VE BEEN ACCUSING ANYONE ACCUSING YOU OF ONLY PLAYING ATTENTION TO VEZOK'S SCUMMINESS.

THAT'S SCUMMY.

I suspect you because Friend's info suggests that the claim is a lie, and because PoE points to Vezok's spot on the mothrax wagon as one of the most suspect belonging to living players. Both. It's not just Vezok. That said you haven't done anything much to ameliorate this.

@Iecerint

- Maybe ask Vi what your rolename would flip as if you got killed? You may be assuming you're not Neighborizer in blue or whatever but really are or something, I dunno. Also, what's your take on who was scummy with the mothrax wagon(s)? What about Socrates' musings and conclusions thereon?

[Plum]

Then why'd Friend get shot yesterday?

Your accusations that people attacking you did so because of Vezok was a complete strawman - a really horrid nonreason to deflect any potential attacks. ARGH.

[Plum]

...

Whatever. VI-ness and place/method of getting onto a wagon aren't the same thing.

[Plum]

Oh well then there you have it.

[Plum]

CKD has been around today and posted just now and I want to see a post in response to my stuff.

[Plum]

Sorry for being late. Post coming up right away.

This had better be good.

Also, it occurs to me. Why did mothrax claim

Tracker

of all things? Granted he didn't show much proficiency at claiming, but really. Why not Doctor or something easier to get away with longer than a Day?

OR does the team have (someone with) a Tracking power available? I suggested that before, but this is, oddly enough, another piece of evidence supporting the plausibility of the suggestion.

AGar, no apology needed.

[Plum]

That may be the case (but that says nothing about my thesis about Haylen's power). Or he may have gotten a something else. Hmmm.

[Plum]

So Pacman, where's this post I've been hearing about???

[Plum]

Pacman just gave a scummy take on every frakking thing CKD has done. Now I don't mean to be a bother, but even scum generally don't act so overwhelmingly scummy that nigh every post reeks of something bad. And if CKD was like this the whole time, why did Pacman not say much about CKD that I can remember until he decides to do an ISO and determines that he missed a heck of a lot of scummy stuff?

In other words, why does this feel so contrived?

Also why is there a noticeable amount of tone/vibey sour reads on CKD from Pacman. Pacman doesn't seem to like those sort of things when directed at him. Hmmmm.

[Plum]

Haylen appears to have suicided, and scum can almost certainly daytalk, so I think reading too much into what happened really locally is unwise (re: CKD implicitly arguing that he is cleared because Haylen is scum).

Haylen

suicided

? Since when do scum do that???

Seriously, where are you getting this from?

[Plum]

Hmmm.

AGar is more Town now (and was pretty Town when last we saw him; he'd have to have a fetish for premature bussing to be scum at this point) and Chronopie is almost definitely Town. I can find the votecounts and stuff indicating this later; I originally worked on this stuff last night and had the tabs open (am in school now, actually. Should be studying for my Psych test). Furc is about as Town as before. That is, almost definitely.

Iec trying to weasel around whether Furc is scummy or Townish here doesn't sit right with me.

Read this quote and tell me what's wrong with it:

Guys.

I just got something important.

I received a message, presumably from either a player or one of the "holy ones." Here's what it contained:

bothhaveglow&smoke

Oh well.

otherisscum

This pretty much proves Locke's theory.
However, I think it's possible that it might actually be the scum talking, and trying to confuse us. Humm...

vezlie-d2ability

Interesting.

idme/wexplain-GGSCHB

???

batery->rolepoints

That means we need to lynch quickly?

Does anybody know what the GGSCHB means? We need to find out who these players are, because one of them is scum.

This is big.

CKD's response to Friend's info is null. Iecerint response is scummy. AGar response (as above) is Town. Pacman (see above) is scummy.

SOCIOPATH IS USELESS.

[Plum]

Yeah, you should.

Really, it's not helping me, dunno that it's helping

anyone

. I mean, dude, we all know Furc's got a VI-esque playstyle. This has been apparent since the beginning of the game. Durh. And AGar, well

AGar: His posting has been somehow good, and his votes have been often reasoned. However, since the start of D5 he would just tunnel on Haylen. Yeah, his cathces were indeed accurate, but Haylen isn't the only other player. This interaction, nonetheless, gives off a town vibe (well, he was one to point out the loopholes in Haylen's claim, and I don't think a scum would make such a thing when many townies are still undecided on the claim. Again, such degree of bussing is unlikely). My read on him is leaning town, altough I'd like he made a list of stances as well.

So wait, tunneling on scum who might not have been lynched and wasn't expected to get shot and flip during the Day is some sort of point against him??? The tone is strikingly reminiscent of that.

Basically you end up wasting time semi-implicating people you have Townreads on for good reasons for things

which are themselves nulltells or Towntells

. This smells of something.

Anyway, I'm not doing what you did. Call it a style difference, but that's not an appealing use of my posting time in this game. Really really not, actually. If you have the time/energy to go through each of CKD's posts (or nearly so) and declare something scummy about each of them, you have time to think through Haylen's claimed Track and figure out what you think the implications are re: Iecerint. I'd rather do that (and I'd also rather you did that, but whatever).

You know who I think is pretty definitely Town. Read up on mothrax's interactions with Chrono, plus a few other things (I think he's been early/only player on Haylen/vezo a few times) if you don't want to take my word on Chrono.

Re: how big is the scumteam?

Well, let's see what we have. We have a bunch of Town Vanilla, a Tracker, maybe a Neighborizer (unlimited shot?), apparently some sort of Vig, and Friend got crucial information from the Town !!!!!! (and we got a Battery reprieve once, but that seems to have been a one-off). Scum have . . . we don't know, but probably some sort of Tracker/Watcher given Haylen's claim, and in any case it appears that both Haylen and mothrax were scum PRs of a sort. One more scumbag would not be unreasonable; two more would seem to be at least as probable.

Hey, SP. YOU'RE BREAKING MY HEART.

CAN WE TALK???

The only thing I wonder about is Haylen's sudden death, whether that might have been an attempt to cover any possible connections by her team in some form, if one of the !!!! players is scum.

If so I hope that guy does it again, man.

[Plum]

OKAY SO GUESS WHAT.

Apparently when you complain that you get no love suddenly you start glowing like a radioactive MOONBEAM.

That said, glowy moonbeams tell me that no one figured out what was wrong with pacman from that quote of mine.

[Plum]

[deleted; modpost from a different game]

[Plum]

Okay so guess what I'm really messed up tonight.

You now have a flip from a game I'm running Heh.

[Plum]

Vi, if you like you can delete that or something. Or not.

EBWOP: Thanks for being one step ahead of me <3

[Plum]

Everyone saying 'we shouldn't vote Pacman today because he was the Mothrax counterwagon needs to go back and carefully evaluate the evolution of Day 2 and it's wagons. I hope to do that myself tonight, but don't just write it off.

[Plum]

Remember how I said a bunch of times that Pacman's behavior regarding the Wraith hammer - avoiding it and preemptively justifying moving onto it in a scummy way, and being wishy-washy about whether he wanted to hammer it or vote the counterwagon? Well, who was the counterwagon there?

VEZOK. WITH A CAPITAL V.

[Plum]

@CKD: lolwut?
Second (Yeah I'll make it the other way around): The way I (roughly) define tunneling (as it seems it's a different definition for you) is only attacking one player, while blatantly ignoring the other ones/not having stances on them.
I think it might be the wrong definition, but I think you might now understand what I'm trying to say about Plum.
And first, that vote DOES look terribly scummy. It's basically OMGUS; you have no case, and haven't ever tried to rebuff my case on you. Yet again, many of my "attacks" were at the fact that most of your posting was useless, and that you kept promising real content and never posted it. The points I somehow exaggerated are pointed out at post 1927. Again, if you feel that my case is poor, rebuff it. Don't just say "oh god pacman said all my posts are scummy so he's scum lynchhimnao".

1. I'm not tunnelling on you. If the fact that I directed a lot of energy to trying to sort out Iecerint and Haylen today isn't enough to make the plain and clear, I don't know what it. I have plenty of stances on other players (it just seems you don't like to hear it when the one's I'm most confident on are a set of three very strong Townreads, huh).

2. CKD never said that because you called all his posts scummy you were scum; in fact, he spent a while thinking you were Town very much in spite of that fact. You're calling OMGUS when it's not there. It's not even a strawman, it's a downright untruth, like when Haylen kept insinuating that anyone who found her scummy was basing it only of Vezo's scumminess.

[Plum]

Nonono, SP, don't draw CKD into a catfight now.

PLEASE.

[Plum]

1. I don't need to post through every single player to not tunnel, even according to your definition. I'm not tunneling.

2. He had some reason. Namely, he looked at what I mentioned he should look at and decided that it reflected poorly on his Townread on you.

[Plum]

I'm betting on Mod error.

[Plum]

How many unspeakable things do I have to do to get my Iece lynch?

Hopefully not too many . . .

VOTE: pacman281292

I prefer this. I really am having a hard time reading the SP/CKD debate and Socio is

not making it any easier

(hint: he should be).

[Plum]

Guys.

I got a glow.

Hate to break it to you, but I'm taking that as a positive sign.

[Plum]

Yeah but I've been getting mega radiance.

Also read back the glows from the last 10 votecounts and see if you see a pattern. Or multiple patterns.

[Plum]

Pacman, you're avoiding the issue.

Top suspects in a form that's not tl;dr ASAP if you're actually Town. If not, we can skip that step.

[Plum]

A blow-by-blow rendering of someone's ISO is not going to help us in the long run if by some miracle you're actually Town. Conclusions of the ISO stated without excess fat just might. Mkay?

[Plum]

Wheeeee.

[Plum]

Dammit dammit dammit.

[Plum]

>.<

but no NK.

THAT is the question, my friends.

[Plum]

I don't know.

Iec is also a possibility. We need to hear from Furc on the Neighbor front and the Iec on the new Neighbor front before we can guess at anything.

PREVIEW EDIT:

yeah, how do you feel about claim time, Plum...because a.) you were fucking popular "last night", and b.) I am pretty sure you are as town as they come (now), c.) the powers that be also think you are town and d.) you were targetted by mulitple people (not giving a number yet), but can code/breadcrumb it if you so desire (before the claim)

so since, there wasnt a kill yesterday one of those people are SCUM SCUM SCUM!!!!

Oh sweet you are a G-dsend. Possibly literally, given the flavor.

I would not be surprised at the idea of me being popular last 'Night'.

Breadcrumb/code first (better than Haylen's announced breadcrumb if possible, but whatever) and we hear from Iec and stuff and then we'll see about people targeting me claiming, yeah?

[Plum]

I bet you scum are freaking the fuck out right now....lol

also, if we do claim or claim light...PLUM picks the order, I will provide my code/crumb first(before any claims)....but will only give you the decoder at the end...have a problem with that?...why or why not?

I imagine some people might.

Let them tremble in their beds. I think we might have the situation under control.

Start with claim-light; we can always intensify.

SP, Iec, Chrono, AGar, Furc, CKD, moi. All claim if they targeted me except CKD explaines breadcrumb and I will afterwards decide if I should say anything additionally. Does anyone object?

But before that CKD bakes a delicious breadcrumb. It had better be pretty darn waterproof, though.

[Plum]

...

I posted an order, Chrono.

Pay attention, please.

[Plum]

Iec, CKD, I'm in physics and I don't have the time to check through the code right now. I'm %99 sure CKD is telling the truth. But if you vould just quote the lines and the page numbers I'd be grateful.

/OCD

CKD, this doesn't mean I don't think you're brilliant and awesome <3

[Plum]

Jesus christ CKD.

Pretty sure that's completely illogical to farce, considering one screw up could take the whole thing down. I don't have the patience to break that kind of code.

VOTE: SocioPath

I KNOW.

BUT.

[Plum]

Lets take a look at OCCAMS RAZOR SHALL WE?

Scum kill blocked...
Scum know they are screwed...
GAMBIT GAMBIT GAMBIT.

Funny how CKD gets Doc conveniently the same day I do.

Fits with CKD's bahvior yesterday much, no?

Any breadcrumbs, SP?

No, because you're scum.

[Plum]

Lets take a look at OCCAMS RAZOR SHALL WE?

Scum kill blocked...
Scum know they are screwed...
GAMBIT GAMBIT GAMBIT.

Funny how CKD gets Doc conveniently the same day I do.

And dude, if it's 2:5 scum now, blocked kill didn't really screw them over too much, hm? Enough to set up a one-for-one?

[Plum]

Fits with CKD's bahvior yesterday much, no?

No, actually.
That is what is the key.

Any breadcrumbs, SP?

No, because you're scum.

Nice false dilemma.
I never crumb, and I never will.
Its a sign of weakness.
I play this game to use psychology to catch people, not soulless sequences and inputs.

Uh huh, uh huh.

[Plum]

Fits with CKD's bahvior yesterday much, no?

No, actually.
That is what is the key.

Point this out, please. Explain.

[Plum]

Plum pretty much wins the award for getting most of the setup idea right, although Iecerint deserves credit for getting kind of close to what the difference between a Dark or Shadow Demon was (sorta).

Well, I thought it was obvious that the Battery was doing something and that Town got more out of it than scum. You of all people don't support dragging days. I didn't really get involved in discussion regarding Demons, but it was clear that there was only one team of them, at any rate. Nice setup idea, pulled off nicely. We managed to basically make it to four-player LYLO, though whether or not that's a good barometer I dunno.

...

Good bussing, AGar. Mad at myself. Annoyed at myself for clearing him, but hoped that at LYLO there would be more discussion . . . I dunno. Anyway, the lesson is once again clear: if you bus your buddies long before anyone realizes they might need bussing, it pays big dividends.

This is the only game I can remember where I Vigged more scum that the Town managed to lynch (that said, CKD deserves credit for finding SP and Doccing me. Unfortunately the PGO was a nice move on their part; nicely countered. Still, I have some pride in shooting correctly twice (was so tempted to Vig pacman but held myself together . . .). At least I took a very rare opportunity to be a proper Day Vig and made pretty good on it.

[Plum]

We managed to basically make it to four-player LYLO, though whether or not that's a good barometer I dunno.

Truthfully, you really shouldn't have gotten there. As badly as scum played, they deserved the win by a fairly large margin and would have gotten it much more easily if you weren't awesome.

I like to think I raise the caliber of my Townteam . Just not enough this time around, I suppose.

[Plum]

Town gets rewarded more than scum for lynching on time. Vi's principles (the ones which lead to the original Battery-powered deadline system in the first place) wouldn't have had it otherwise.

[Plum]

pre-/in

Unless things happen, I'm interested as well.

[Plum]

Hmmmm.

Depending on how intensive each post from me will be, that shouldn't rule me out automatically. Frankly I only have a 27-odd hour stretch, at a generous estimate, where I can't post each week. I don't always post much Saturday nights and such because I may be busy, tired, or lazy, but.