Mafia 121 -- Picking Simplicity Game Over

[AGar]

/confirm

Hello I've played with/am modding/am playing with, etc etc.

[AGar]

VOTE: Haylen

String her up now before she miraculously pulls out some fakeclaim again, guys.

[AGar]

Vote: CJMiller

Policy?

Huh? I have no fucking clue who CJ is. I just picked a name and voted.

Prolly cuz ur the only 1 who didn't post a reason w/ ur vote.

Wood evry1 b pissed if I typed liek this all game long?

[AGar]

Claim:

either

doctor or cop, to get that out of the way.

With this setup they can't risk missing a kill on me so no danger in claiming...I will provide "results" or results after each day to keep it uncertain. I will also take suggestions or "suggestions".

and

Vote:Mothrax

FTR, I'd probably slit my own throat if I posted like that.

I've seen this before. It was a game I flaked on, great. I now have to go back and re-read a game I didn't even finish. Fuck you Jack, fuck you.

While I think about it:

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Glork

I know I've seen that before. Grawr.

Or we could wagon the mod to a lynch?

[AGar]

So is it still a non-sequitor given this earlier in the thread:

Wood evry1 b pissed if I typed liek this all game long?

Don't you think that inspired Nikanor's )( joke?

Why does it matter?

I like Empking already.

[AGar]

Well it matters if you call someone scummy for doing it but not someone else. Isn't this obvious?

What in fuck's sake are you talking about?

[AGar]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: LynchMePls

You're trying to paint me as scum for something I never even referenced. I made my joke, yes, and then never followed up on it. Not once did I mention Nikanor's play on my joke, I asked why you insisted on bringing it up. I said I like Empking because he was echoing the sentiment of why are you bringing it up.

[AGar]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: LynchMePls

You're trying to paint me as scum for something I never even referenced. I made my joke, yes, and then never followed up on it. Not once did I mention Nikanor's play on my joke, I asked why you insisted on bringing it up. I said I like Empking because he was echoing the sentiment of why are you bringing it up.

Do you think LMP is scum, or do you just not like the fact that he voted for you?

I don't OMGUS. I didn't even realize he voted for me honestly.

He's saying I made a big deal about the whole Nikanor ")( joke" post.

I didn't.

He's blatantly putting words in my mouth as fodder for his suspicions (and apparently vote).

VV - I think it's ongoing still (as in, I'm pretty sure it is).

[AGar]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: LynchMePls

You're trying to paint me as scum for something I never even referenced. I made my joke, yes, and then never followed up on it. Not once did I mention Nikanor's play on my joke, I asked why you insisted on bringing it up. I said I like Empking because he was echoing the sentiment of why are you bringing it up.

^^ This is so much fail. I'm not "trying to paint you as scum" I'm pointing out Empking's double standard in regards to you and Nikanor. Those things are not equal.

After re-reading your post 30 times, I finally see the misunderstanding. I didn't connect a line before the end of the paragraph. /facepalm.

UNVOTE:

P.S. - Conciseness. It's pro-town. It has been said in the thread before.

I guess I need to re-read now. Shit.

[AGar]

I think you'll find posting a whole lot is actually a scum tell

VOTE: SnakePlissken

'nuff for me. (This is L-4, atm).

Xine is scummy too, and a hypocrite.
Haylen gets a glare for not expecting this playerlist to post loads.
I'm liking Jack's recent play.
UK too.
Yos is good.
Glrok good.
AGar bad, insofar.
AGar WoW addict.

UK has seen the meta light?! Wheeeeeeeeee.

[AGar]

I can't tell if you're serious, Xine, but I'm pretty confident that posting a lot is more a town tell then anything else.

I'd say null.

[AGar]

When you are scum in general you do try harder than a normal town to appear town, would you agree? Well on that basis and becuase of that you tend to fly in with a lot of questions and pick up on as much as can, even the slightest thing. Well at least in my limited experience thats what I have seen happening. Although on here the official version as in the forum as a whole that is, there's a lot more bussing goin on, again building peoples vote counts.

Not really. No.

Oh and Agar why?

Xine is scummy too, and a hypocrite. (what leads you to this in particular?)
I'm liking Jack's recent play. (Really? Jack's so scattershot with his comments Im interested to see why.)
UK too. (Or is it the fact that they both agree with and are voting the same way as you currnetly?)

You're scummy for trying to justify posting a lot is a scumtell.

Xine is scummy for her "me too!" kind of remarks, and hypocritical for telling Sudo to start playing when I feel her contributions have been coat-tailing at best.
Jack's play has been pro-town. Quirky, and not exactly standard, but pro-town. See the call-out of me for evidence.
UK is playing smart, calling for less wall spam, and saw the meta light.

[AGar]

Yes. Especially since he already confirmed in thread which leads me to believe that he is KNOWINGLY conforming to the rest of the group.

/conform

I'm not getting anything from my read other than

Vote:SnakePlissken

A wizard did it.

Iso ends

Show me where he confirmed in thread bfore this page. He has two posts total, both of which come after 10 plus pages.

I don't see the misrep.

---

no, she made a point out of him "knowingly" bandwagoning, she says she doesn't buy that it's a random vote, and she's voting for him

She did, but she also had faulty logic. What say you to that?

---

It looks like haylen is trying to cover for the fact that cj had not posted once all game.

Do not misrep me. It's scummy. And in this case it was obvious.

FoS Mothrax

In happy with my vote for now. Would go with a mothrax lynch if asked.

Obvious scum is obvious.

[AGar]

CJ wagon is fail-wagon if you're looking for scum. If you're looking for a lynch to rid the town of a non-productive player, go for it. But Snake/Hayl > CJ.

[AGar]

Fair enough. Checking something in my super secret scum snatching laboratory.

[AGar]

Hey guys, guess who

1) Wasn't on the Snake wagon
2) Never took a position towards the Snake wagon
3) Easily slid onto the CJ wagon

If you answered Haylen to any or all of the above questions, you're CORRECT!!!!!

Scum #2 found.

[AGar]

I feel motivated guys.

[AGar]

From what I can gather hes:

A) accusing me of being scum because I wasn't on the Snake wagon
B) accusing me of being scum because I apparently fence sat on the snake wagon when i never even mentioned it in thread. Can't fence sit if you don't acknowledge something.
C) accusing me of being scum because I Voted CJ, which to me would suggest a chainsaw defence of CJ regardless of if he was attacking him earlier.

Antihero, I never OMGUS'd Mothrax because what I said about him was completely valid and I never voted for him anyway.

A) Conditionally yes.
B) Actually, it's the complete ignorance of it altogether that is scummy. That's still failing to take a position.
C) No, you're scum because you quickly hopped onto the CJ wagon with fervor that just so happened to also be a counterwagon rapidly growing against the Snake wagon (your scumbuddy).

Chainsaw defense is bogus, the fact that you're trying to point lame tells to yourself is wasting our time.

The flaring AtE of "OMG I CAN'T PROVE I'M TOWN TO YOU GUYS DURR" is really just poor, poor play.

Snake is still the play though. Post #275 is wonderful.

"Guys, people who post a lot are scummy, because they're trying to appear town. But this is conditional to the game. And besides, some people will sit in the background and try not to draw attention to themselves."

Does that not sit well with anyone else?

Glork, don't fall victim to the AtE. Just feel me on this one, brah.

[AGar]

Can I ignore the incompetents this game until we lynch them guys?

[AGar]

I like Empking already.

Dear Jack,

I figured this would sum it up fine.

-AGar.

God damn, people are fools.

[AGar]

I endorse the statements of LMP right now.

[AGar]

VOTE: Haylen

She's done nothing this game that helps us. Only blithered random bullshit and essentially claimed she couldn't scumhunt D1, which is bullshit.

[AGar]

She's done nothing this game that helps us. Only blithered random bullshit and essentially claimed she couldn't scumhunt D1, which is bullshit.

Yeah, that just about sums up Haylen's playstyle as both alignments. Good job pointing out the obvious. Now how about hunting for scum?

You apparently missed where I said meta is trash. If she's going to be fucking useless as either alignment, then she should be lynched until she starts playing.

[AGar]

You apparently missed where I said meta is trash. If she's going to be fucking useless as either alignment, then she should be lynched until she starts playing.

Or, to rephrase, "I've already said that I don't consider meta valid so don't try to use that to figure out that my vote is crap."
I'm glad you're acknowledging that my meta is valid with your second sentence, though. If you really think that meta is worth nothing, it means you know that Haylen is town.

Unvote. Vote: AGar.

Thx 4 claiming scum.

Let's be real - I'm not a shitty scum player here.

I've been lynched... twice? as scum? Once because in a newbie game my RB partner bit the bullet and the cop investigated me due to my terrible pre-replacement (N857). The other was because I played a bad game after replacing a hardcore lurker who played the newbie card too hard (N853). Both replacement slots. I play pristine fucking scum games. My two losses are the one newbie game I cited, and a Friends & Enemies & Enemies game where I died via crosskill because the other team got mason vibes from me.

You want to run with your so-called slip, go for it. You're wrong, and that's gotta be the weakest thing I've seen ever. If you regard your meta so highly, go meta me. Every game is linked cleanly in my wiki page. Every one. Tell me what you find, other than I don't fuck up as scum. That's not meta, that's fact.

As for the slip itself, now that I'm off my ego trip, I'm not acknowledging meta. My vote is on Haylen because her game here has been scummy. You said she plays like this regardless of alignment, I simply reprimanded you for allowing it. If a player is playing bad, then they shouldn't be rewarded with bogus meta defenses saying it's null. This is half of the problem we have this massive influx of VIs on this site currently. People refuse to just lynch a player like Haylen or DMSIS saying it's a null meta tell. Null meta in itself is retarded - you're admitting that you can't read the player. So how is your reasoning in any way shape or form decent? Pray tell.

I think meta is worth nothing, therefore I am going to move on with my belief that Haylen is scum until she does otherwise. I also made a comment that you shouldn't reward bad play, you should force improvement. If you want to interpret it differently, go ahead. Not my problem.

UK: I'm using my distaste for meta as an excuse for a plan? Do explain this, I'm actually interested to hear this one. Also, what happened to Lowell-obvscum?

[AGar]

Other inconsistencies here:

Jack supposedly has good points about me, but has yet to actually lay down a vote.
Eldarad has taken an easy-on, easy-off approach to my wagon, so that if it fizzles out, he has a chance to escape. $10 on him hopping on the next wagon that gains steam once this fizzles.
RC doesn't see the case, but wants me lynched, without any given reason.

Everyone seems to believe that being abrasive is a scumtell, but they'll cling to their precious meta to defend Haylen. It's hilariously conveniently lazy and short-sighted of them.

[AGar]

I believe it will.

I pointed out why her play has been scummy, it's just an added benefit to me that it's also bad. Apparently if I start off a case, and then add in more points that aren't the exact same as that case I started with, I'm scum. And UK is lolz saying I will get caught. Ok there.

You guys keep setting your double standard up so conveniently. "Haylen is town because of meta!" Someone says I behave like this every game. "NO META IS WRONG."

Nik - did you ignore what I said about you not being able to read Haylen and basically saying I'm wrong because of what you see as a null-meta read? The giant hole I poked in your balloon?

Haylen, where's the scumhunting today. You said you sit back on D1, so I assume that means you should be coming back with a vengeance today? Oh, you're just sheeping along and not providing content. Cool. That's bad play, AND beneficial to scum (HOLY CRAP THEY CAN BE MUTUAL GUYS).

Moth probably isn't scum. Doesn't feel it to me.

[AGar]

Also, lolz at you attempting to use self meta earlier to state that you wouldn't. I also note that you never responded to my jab about how you basically were saying we should never vote you.

Fact != Meta

[AGar]

@Mod: Votecount, please? Thanks yo.

[AGar]

Ehhhhhhh meh.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: UK

Hypocrisy, blah blah blah, twisted view of contradicting herself, yawn.

Blah.

Hayl is scum, but people would rather sit around and analyze my follow ups than actually lynch scum. Blech.

[AGar]

AGar is hilarious. He is so obviously scum it's blinding. "Herp derp I'm going to jump on this growing bandwagon that's not me and non chalantly play off the fact I have no actual leg to stand on for my vote!"

Well, you got 2/3 of it.

I am hilarious.

I did jump on a bandwagon that's not me. No one, besides Xine - who's towniness I don't trust - has voted Haylen, everyone wants to save her based on Nikanor's "She does this as both alignments!" meta (so it's a null read, which means there's no defense for her play which has been conveniently scummy, which I already did point out, which is a point I have been hammering uselessly). Other two wagons are you or me. I'm not going to self-vote. So I have no leg. But if you're not going to see what I pointed out, I'm not going to waste my time hunting down another suspect. Rather just blindly wagon until a lynch happens.

[AGar]

And that's what's hilarious. You do not *care* who gets lynched, as long as it isn't you.

That's scummy :O

Not entirely true.

I would be very unsatisfied with lynches of Jack, Nacho, Glork and RC. All others are ok with the right persuasion. And yes, I would rather not be lynched. It would be a shame, really, to die on D2.

[AGar]

Nacho is a popular choice?

Cool.

And yes, I have similarly established town-reads on players as others. Town reads tend to be much more communal, at least in my experiences. Usually one or two stick out and aren't agreed upon, but generally town reads are one thing everyone can agree on.

I'm more worried about seeing a flip at this point, since my prime choice isn't getting any real pressure.

Can you explain to me why you don't see the scumminess in Haylen's play? Yes, I eventually got to the point of berating her, rightfully. But I also

did

point out what I thought were some substantial reasons for her to be scum before that, as I have said. She has dodged putting out any reads well into D2 now. She conveniently avoided comment on almost anything yesterday, even when things were coming to a climax. Every post has either been her going "Wahh, I don't suck!" or "I'll post later, fuck off for wanting me to do something!"

The

only

defense procured so far has been by Nikanor that "she does this regardless of alignment."

Being that I do not subscribe to meta, that means nothing to me. I also made the offhanded comment that if this is what she does every game as scum or town, why do people tolerate it? Apathetic townies are the #1 downfall for any town. I could probably dig up at least 10 of my completed games where that worked out in scums favor.

The point I have made still stands - all Nikanor did is for anyone who subscribes to meta is say Haylen's actions are not indicative of any alignment. As I have said before - I do not use meta. I think it can be too easily tricked and screwed over. I could give a great example, but then everyone would start using that lovely buzzword "WIFOM" and I really don't feel like starting that up. Back on track, because I do not use meta, I have found her actions to be scummy. I have said this. A null-tell meta does nothing to change that. If someone wants to show me town motivation for everything I pointed out, I'll back off. But I don't see it. Who cares if I said the added benefit is also that I feel she's not a capable player and then we're removing that from the equation as well? Why should we keep a VI around, who is intentionally refusing to do anything? I find her scummy, and I see a double bonus here. It's called a two-fer. Am I not allowed to promote that?

The fact is, my wagon is based around the belief that I only want Haylen lynched because she's a bad player. Far from the truth. But if I'm going to be wagonned for that, I'm sure as hell going to counterwagon when no one else is biting on my case and the counterwagon is one of those people promoting the misrepresentation.

[AGar]

I'll do you a favor, UK. Here's the heavy lifting. I'm giving links to every post where I address reasoning as to why Haylen should be lynched. If you only see that I want her lynched because of poor play, then oh well, shit happens, counterwagon until one of us is dead.

Iso #12 - Pointing out the flaw in Haylen's reactionary attack on Mothrax for "misrepresenting" her.
Iso #15 - Pointing out 3 notable situations - not getting on SP's wagon, not even mentioning SP and the wagon, and sliding coyly onto the CJM wagon.
Iso #17 - Clarifying my points. Pointing out Haylen is trying to self-defend by way of some screwed up belief that I accused her of chainsaw.
Iso #18 - First post calling Haylen a bad player directly.
Iso #21 - First post of D2. Point out her actively denying to scumhunt and her useless behavior D1
Iso #22 - Meta is trash. She's bad, lynch her.
Iso #23 - Ego trip. Says I pointed out why Haylen is scummy. Also said, yes, I would love to lynch a bad player, who also is scummy at the same time.
Iso #25 - More ego, then echoing that I find Haylen scummy. I don't know why I need to echo that sentiment so much? Ask for D2 scumhunting.


That should be plenty for you to see, methinks. Everything else is just me arguing with LMP or calling everyone an idiot. Classic AGar.

[AGar]

@AGar: If you don't do anything with meta, why did you think that we shouldn't vote you because you've only been lynched as scum twice

in previous games

.

So, please, I'm getting sick of this "I don't do meta" bullshit. At least qualify it with "I don't do meta unless I'm trying to save my own ass"

As for Haylen, she's been becoming progressively more scummy as she continues to be useless. At this point I would probably support a lynch on her...assuming you, Lowell, and Xine were dead first.

As for you claiming you think Haylen is scummy, the problem is you start out like that, and then it slowly devolves into "Haylen is a bad player". Jack correctly called you out on this.

And yes, I've actually seen several people who are unwilling to lynch Nacho. So yes, he's a popular choice for not lynching.

Hmm...though, actually, didn't AGar say something about how antagonism isn't anti town if you always do it? Or was that someone else? Because if it was him it is yet another ~*~convenient~*~ disrespect for his *NO META* rule.

- I said plenty of times - ego trip. I honestly don't think you guys would catch me if I was scum. If it was meta, I'd be like "I do this, this and this as scum, none of which I'm doing," to save my own ass. My ego about my past record shouldn't reflect a meta argument, considering all I said was "You won't catch me, no one ever does."

- Why does it matter what it devolves to? The fact of the matter is that I have pointed things out - what is usually referred to as

a case

- and moved on to the rest. Yes, Jack called me out on it. I am not challenging that. I'm challenging why you voted based on that, and have ignored the fact that I have pointed out that while there was beratement, there was also scumminess.

- Again, you

completely

ignored the fact that I said I find town reads to be more communal than scum-reads.

- I asked since when was being antagonistic anti-town, Nik said only when you don't do it as town.

When you read selectively and choose to ignore the parts of my posts that validate what I'm doing, that's the kind of behavior that persuaded me to vote your wagon. You were on my "Don't lynch" list for a good part of D1, and even a bit into D2. But your vote was placed on one thing, as far as I can tell, and that's my case on Haylen is centered around her being a bad player (false) and a "convenient dislike of meta" (also false).

[AGar]

@AGar: You really don't understand what meta means. At any rate, what it devolves to matters because it heavily implies that you don't believe what you are saying. And what is there to say about it? It seems like a thing with no bearing on this conversation. And yeah, I checked what I was saying just to be sure and you didn't actually say that.

And frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn what you think is "false" because, hilarilously enough. it...hahaha, isn't.

Also you're somewhat misrepping my reasons for voting but hopefully those are clarified in this post.

lawl.

[AGar]

Nocmen, I'm not going to hammer uselessly at something when half the town can't be bothered to even fucking play. That's about all it boils down to.

[AGar]

Nope. I'm just gonna pull a lowell, I think. He seems to be coasting just fine.

[AGar]

Patiently waiting for the "OMG SCUMSLIP" post, btw.

[AGar]

And no I haven't been active lurking.

Really? Because you haven't given a fucking opinion of your own all game.

[AGar]

Also, AGar: What do you think of the other lurkers (Antihero, Lowell, etc) and do you think they are scummy?

Lurkers who aren't actively posting don't bother me. I do believe that's antihero atm.

Lowell, while doing really nothing, at least has the balls to put his money somewhere. It's something. He's willing to give out reads that aren't completely reactionary to a wagon on him.

Others... I dunno. I'd rather just see this day through with Haylen lynched, if not, counterwagon on UK until someone dies. I could be prone to a vote-hop onto another wagon not of the people I have mentioned.

[AGar]

Oh, look, Vas is still pushing my case that I've ignored flips. I haven't.

I'm going to rant here, hold please.

SINCE WHEN DID CALLING A PLAYER TOWN BEFORE A FLIP BECOME A TOWNTELL? WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENED TO COMMON SENSE. ALL I'M GONNA DO AS SCUM FROM NOW ON IS CALL SOMEONE TOWN BEFORE THEY GOT LYNCHED BECAUSE THAT SEEMS TO BE THE WAY TO GO. "OMG, XXXXX IS TOWN! DON'T LYNCH THEM" *XXXXX, TOWN BLAH, LYNCHED DAY #* "OMG, AGAR U SO TOWN!" SERIOUSLY. CALLING SOMEONE'S ALIGNMENT AND/OR DEFENDING A WAGON IS NULL ON IT'S OWN. YOU NEED TO SCRATCH PAST THE GOD DAMN SURFACE BEFORE YOU START GIVING TOWNREADS. JUST HANDING OUT TOWN READS LIKE THAT LEADS TO AN APATHETIC TOWN JUST WILLING TO LET ANYONE DO NOTHING AND SLIDE BY. APATHETIC TOWNS

LOSE

ALL THE TIME, FOR CHRISTS SAKE. WHAT HAPPENED TO ACTUAL ANALYSIS? GIVING REASONS BEYOND "BUSSING" AND "OMG CALLED HIM TOWN, SO NOT SCUM"

/rant

But seriously. You want "an update"?

Haylen ignored the wagon. Not defended SP for not being scum or said the reasoning was bad. Flat. Out. Ignored. The. Wagon. Her reason? There was too much else going on in the game at the time. WHAT ELSE WAS GOING ON?!?!?! NOTHING FFS. WE WERE ALL TALKING ABOUT SNAKE, THEN THE CJM WAGON CAME UP.

Haylen coyly slid onto the CJM town wagon. Yes, he was town. All the more motivation for 1) Scum to get behind a wagon. 2) Not be too vocal about it. HOW DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THAT.

Where are her reads? Where are her positions? The only "read" she's given, is that I'm scum, which she didn't even get the fuel to until Nikanor pointed out a supposed slip. It's thinly masked OMGUS*. She doesn't have any actual reads, she's given no input to the game. She's stalled to do absolutely nothing so far. NOTHING. Ehn. Oh. Tee. Ach. Eye. Ehn. Jee. (Phonetically for you).

God damn.

* - OMGUS is not a scumtell. Don't even try and say I said it was. I said her only 'read' is OMGUS. Therefore, she has none. GFG.

[AGar]

Also, AGar: What do you think of the other lurkers (Antihero, Lowell, etc) and do you think they are scummy?

Lurkers who aren't actively posting don't bother me. I do believe that's antihero atm.

Lowell, while doing really nothing, at least has the balls to put his money somewhere. It's something. He's willing to give out reads that aren't completely reactionary to a wagon on him.

Others... I dunno. I'd rather just see this day through with Haylen lynched, if not, counterwagon on UK until someone dies. I could be prone to a vote-hop onto another wagon not of the people I have mentioned.

But yet, isn't Anti doing the exact same thing as Haylen? What do you think about his actions with Azael Day 1, do you think that's buddying?

You're being contradictory. Or defending Anti.

UNVOTE: VOTE: AGar

Anti simply isn't posting. He could come back with some brilliant "OMG HERE ARE THE SCUMS AND WHY" post. Haylen is saying "OMG I'll post!" and then her next post is "I'm gonna post guys, swear!"

So you apparently can't read.

[AGar]

Oh, and this was me during that rant:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtvIYRrgZ04#t=2m40s

[AGar]

Uh.

What.
The.
Fuck.

[AGar]

No... I get that she's not town.

I'm just confused.

Cop claims.
SK claims.
SK counter-claim.

I have never seen this before. Apparently when I was SK, I was doing it wrong. D:

Jack, I'm actually gonna go with you on this one, but I'm adding a caveat. There's apparently a specific way to play a Picking Simplicity game, one that I don't grasp. At all. Explain to me the benefits of outting yourself as SK? SK is a complete survivor role. By not outting yourself, you let UK play her little game while you kill and she gets lynched pre-LYLO, and you coast for a good while, seeing as how you had a few town reads on you (myself included). Outting yourself now, all you do is ensure one scum gets lynched and you lose. I don't follow.

I buy Nacho-cop myself.
I buy UK-scum.
I think Jack fell for a ploy somehow.

[AGar]

I don't think we should lynch Nacho or UK. Antihero is still a better lynch. If we lynch UK, and she is the SK, all we're doing is helping the scum. If we lynch Nacho, we risk lynching the cop. I say we let the situation play itself out, and lynch scum-Antihero.

nopoint trying to direct the doc protect is massively scummy. Regardless of who we believe is what, there is no way we should be calling the doctor to protect a specific target.

Did you miss the "I'm the real SK" claim by Jack?

And Nacho, I don't believe stifling the discussion here is the right play at all. Jack has come out and counter-claimed UK. UK should be lynched regardless, based on a guilty and a counter-claim. She's fucked one way or another. I want to see Jack's motivations though.

[AGar]

Nachomamma, why did you wait untill now to claim this result?

Why are you fishing at the obvious?

[AGar]

L-2. Cool.

LMP, stop pussyfooting. Anti-hero isn't being lynched. He's gonna get shot up like Tom Cruise at the end of Valkyrie. Get on the UK wagon.

[AGar]

baaaaah.

VOTE: LMP

Glork is always right yo.

[AGar]

Agar, such insight... Do you still get scum vibes from Hayl now that she's talking a little?

Don't mock me, especially when you've contributed less. I've provided cases.

Haylen isn't actually providing content, now to D3. Oh man, she said Nacho is excitable and wouldn't have held onto a guilty! Meta! He couldn't have possibly decided that he would try and influence the lynch without outting himself at all, nope! Meta guys, it's so solid! I'll get to Haylen, but I'll follow Glork here. Case on Haylen when the town looks interested in getting their heads out of their asses.

Noc pulls an interesting fast-one still pushing Antihero. As far as I know, the case on AH is "OMG HE ISN'T POSTING AT ALL."

AH hasn't posted in 9 days here. Either he needs a prod to post or a replacement. But trying to base alignment off of a non-poster is retarded, and everyone knows it.

[AGar]

I would like to point out that the quickness of this wagon after everybody was so happily bandwagonning me is suspicious.

WTF? When exactly was "everybody so happily bandwagonning" you? Because I would've jumped on in a heart beat. Don't twist the way events played out to your favor.

[AGar]

I have done a re-skim of this game. I have not found LMP to be conclusively scum, and therefore I am unwilling to vote him. My main 2 suspects are Empking, for the same reasons I had before+ more active lurking. and Antihero, who had failed to post in this thread in 10 days, but is still posting all over MS. None of his posts in this game looked at all townish to me either.
VOTE: Antihero

Everyone look at this post.

Real hard.

"My main two suspects are Empking, who I say to have put a case out on, and Antihero, who needs to be replaced. I'm voting the complete lurker."

Scum.

With LMP.
And Haylen.

[AGar]

I have done a re-skim of this game. I have not found LMP to be conclusively scum, and therefore I am unwilling to vote him. My main 2 suspects are Empking, for the same reasons I had before+ more active lurking. and Antihero, who had failed to post in this thread in 10 days, but is still posting all over MS. None of his posts in this game looked at all townish to me either.
VOTE: Antihero

Everyone look at this post.

Real hard.

"My main two suspects are Empking, who I say to have put a case out on, and Antihero, who needs to be replaced. I'm voting the complete lurker."

Scum.

With LMP.
And Haylen.

I thought the same BUT, according to Nacho, Xine is confirmed town.

The same person who said the SK was a guilty?

[AGar]

I have done a re-skim of this game. I have not found LMP to be conclusively scum, and therefore I am unwilling to vote him. My main 2 suspects are Empking, for the same reasons I had before+ more active lurking. and Antihero, who had failed to post in this thread in 10 days, but is still posting all over MS. None of his posts in this game looked at all townish to me either.
VOTE: Antihero

Everyone look at this post.

Real hard.

"My main two suspects are Empking, who I say to have put a case out on, and Antihero, who needs to be replaced. I'm voting the complete lurker."

Scum.

With LMP.
And Haylen.

I thought the same BUT, according to Nacho, Xine is confirmed town.

The same person who said the SK was a guilty?

Yes and who was confirmed as a cop by the mod admitting to his error.

Oh. I didn't understand that post at first. Makes sense now.

Evs yo.

Ok, so Xine is off the list. Doesn't mean she shouldn't start playing.

Stand by the Haylen and LMP sentiments.

[AGar]

The only unsettling thing about LMP's wagon is that Nacho is missing from it.

Why do you think this is, AGar?

Because he doesn't suspect LMP?

Why does Nacho missing from it matter? He's all but confirmed as the town cop, and therefore is likely just chasing his main suspicion. I don't agree with it, but it's what he's doing.

Mentioned something about 836. I'd go there.

[AGar]

VOTE: Haylen

Third time's the charm?

Question to Noc - why target Lowell/Anti for alurking but not Haylen?

[AGar]

My view on AH is he's all but not posting thus far. If he posted, I'd be able to commit more to things like "Oh he's posting, but not putting out anything really" or "You guys are fucktards." As far as I'm concerned, he should be force-replaced at this point. Haylen on the other hand is like "Ohhh I'll post." "Ohhh I'm gonna do this" and never does. Almost every post she's made is just delaying her putting out any kind of stance. Even D1 when she was called out on it, she denied it, but refused to provide reads.

[AGar]

I didn't look at it. Lemme re-read what little material AH has and get back to you.

[AGar]

Matt, the problem with your theory is that AH came in yesterday while the LMP wagon was moving forward and didn't shuck down a vote.

Haylen, in the mean time, is an idiot.

1) Stop saying things don't exist like AtE and OMGUS because it's only in the eye of the reader and you don't like them. Everything in every game of mafia is in the eye of the reader, since we're not the other people. By your accounts, if we all went the way you did things, then no one would scumhunt.
2) No, actually I haven't. I have pretty thick skin, it takes a lot to get me bogged down. If it's too much to handle, fucking replace.

You are useless. You've tunneled on me since I attacked you. You're here now, and the only thing you comment on is me. What about the growing AH or RC wagons? What about the LMP flip? What about anything else that has happened besides me maintaining a suspicion of you?

You're dead weight to the town, and if I was a dayvig, I'd blow you into the next dimension.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: RC

Nacho didn't talk us down here.

RC, you seem set that I'm scum because of someone else's actions. Since when was that in any way shape or form... logical?

[AGar]

Haylen made a pretty good case againt you Agar, and your only response is that she is an idiot. What kind of response is that? She has repeatedly asked you for a "case" on her, and all you give is oneliners and abuse.


as far as my vote...BAA
VOTE: RC

If it's such a good case, then why aren't you helping pioneer the wagon?

Just because you're confirmed town doesn't give you a pass to play terribly and not actually act pro-town.

[AGar]

If it's such a good case, then why aren't you helping pioneer the wagon?

Just because you're confirmed town doesn't give you a pass to play terribly and not actually act pro-town.

Because RC is also scum?

Terrible "defense." Your next post had better be a treatise on why we shouldn't lynch you next, becuase you have skyrocketed up my scumlist.

I'm not going to defend from her, so you should probably try and wagon me (again) if that's your intent.

Just take a look at the "case". Shit like "AtE and OMGUS only exist in the eye of the beholder and can't be used to pin up scum!!!!" and "He told us not to lynch someone, but is now pushing

my

lynch!" I'm not going to waste my time defending against bogus. If you think it's worthwhile, try and hang me. Maybe you guys can succeed where others failed. If someone presents a real case, then I might be inclined to defend myself. But right now, there's more important shit to deal with.

[AGar]

BTW, Glork. You ain't as good as you think ya are. Reality check, bro.

[AGar]

Lulz.

Follow the cop.

I'm game.

Eldarad, hurry up though. I'm impatient here.

[AGar]

Not ready to claim?

When does the lynchee get to call the shots?

VOTE: Eldarad

[AGar]

Not ready to claim?

When does the lynchee get to call the shots?

VOTE: Eldarad

Hey. Did you just completely ignore our notes of you acting too forced to the eldarad outing?

Yeah, cause you're wrong.

[AGar]

Actually, I was just saying your analysis of the behavior is wrong, that's all.

[AGar]

AGar:

If Eldarad is scum, who is his most likely scumbuddy? If DH is scum, who is *his* most likely scumbuddy?

If Eldarad: From an outside perspective, I get the Eldarad -> AGar connection. I don't see how you see the reverse, but there's no way I can take an unbiased approach to that. I see a bigger Eldarad <-> Substrike/AH connection, more on Substrike. Eldarad completely skirted Antihero entirely, while Substrike made it very quick to jump on the wagon based on just being told to.

If DH: Haylen. Ignore everything I brought up for the meat of it for this one. Just look at Nik's defense of her - the meta was a null-tell. It was about as weak as defenses get, no matter what the pressure it is. It leaves room open for a bus while still tries to avert a potential lynch. Haylen hopped right along in line with Nik's so-called "slip" he found, then has ignored the slot well since. In the fact that she hasn't even mentioned it at all.

---

Also, a slight bit about Haylen I seem to have missed earlier:

Post #378

AtoE isn't scummy in itself but I think he is trying to make town scared of lynching him especially with the premature claim.

Post #574

There is no such thing as AtE

Direct contradiction here.

[AGar]

Since we're not moving forward with Eldarad.

UNVOTE:

[AGar]

Haylen, I'm going to assume you don't read your own posts, because in the same post, you say "AtE doesn't exist in the way people believe it to" and "AtE doesn't exist."

This is the kind of contradiction I pointed out once, where you pulled out a nice little buzzword. Do you realize what strawmanning is? It's creating another argument and providing that I've responded to it.

How is pointing something out saying I've refuted your argument? You made a very clear contradiction in what I pointed out. You can't say something doesn't exist and then acknowledge it. It. Doesn't. Work. That. Way.

FFS, learn your buzzwords before you spew them.

VOTE: Haylen

[AGar]

Agar, post 1092 is not a direct contradiction. She's saying that it a) isn't scummy and therefore irrelevant, and b) irrelevant as it doesn't exist. Ends are the same and therefore justify the means in this case. It seems like you're trying to make a mountain out of a molehill. Do I need to recant your not being scummy? For all your occasional dick-ish-ness you seem like a smart guy so this post strikes me as odd.

You can't acknowledge it and then say it doesn't exist. That doesn't work.

[AGar]

How does no one else find post 1111 from Lowell scummy?

Because someone would scream OMGUS if I said it. Yay buzzwords.

[AGar]

welp that was fun.

GJ Nacho.