Mafia 121 -- Picking Simplicity Game Over

[Xine]

/confirm

[Xine]

Hello hello alll
Jack: what's you'e facination with eldarad?
Azazel: how many games have you played here?
I have never random voted before, but for you, darlin' I'll make an exception:
VOTE: Sudo

[Xine]

AGAR: I would love it if you post like that all game. Jack...WTF?

[Xine]

I'm here too, the thing that stands out the most to me is Azazel voting Antihero, but not wanting to lynch him...? Why would anyone who is town place a vote on someone thet don't think is scum???
VOTE: Azazel

[Xine]

It may seem scummy, but really Xine is really busy, the thing that stands out second most is that Jack is totally ridiculous. And though I will read all the nitpicking banter, I am only likely to comment on things that actually seem important.

[Xine]

There is a difference between a Lie, and, being Wrong. You, Empking, are refusing to conider that, or any other piece of the discussion that has taken place so far. Yos, on the other hand, is making a full case, littered with different points to reference.

[Xine]

Right I haven't disappeared for pages in fact I think you'll find me on the last one. I am playing in 4 games currently and I am mod ding one off site, so it's a bit hard keeping notes on where I am in each one.

So not voting on Emp because he posts a lot? I think you'll find posting a whole lot is actually a scum tell as they tend to overcompensate to try and make themselves look like town by being an active 'scum hunter' then there's the other end of the scale where the lurkers avoid posting to keep their neck out of the noose and be forgotten about.

Are we anywhere near endgame anyway Lowell?

^ And this, my friends, is yet another reason to lynch Snake ^-^.

Really? Well UK your dumber than I thought then. Why exactly is it another reason? You still are yet to provide anything of worth to back that up. However I do agree with Emp looking the scummiest. I go back to my previous over posting theorem.

vote Empking

UNVOTE: UNVOTE: SnakePlissken

Sudo

...you better get in here and start playing...or else...

[Xine]

Xine is scummy too, and a hypocrite.

Glork, maybe it's both?

[Xine]

Seriously, if posting a lot were a scumtell, I'd be scum in every game I ever played.

It's indictaive of playstyle, not scumminess.

[Xine]

try again on that post...
Glork: I see that I wasn't clear, maybe it's both was in reference to this:

Seriously, if posting a lot were a scumtell, I'd be scum in every game I ever played.

It's indictaive of playstyle, not scumminess.

sorry for the stuttering posting...

[Xine]

Lowell, I got suckered in by that exact conundrum you are describing the last time I played with you, I'm going to place you at neutral. I think you are making a really valid point about UK. your point on nacho is a bit weak, but, I'll still take your advice and keep my eye on him.

UK, would you please elaborate why Lowell looks like the SK?
ninja edit,
I see Empking has taken this as a prime opportunity to cast an opportunistic vote. I may as well mention that he would be my prime suspect at this moment, but I need to look over some stuff before I place any votes.
no promises on when, sorry all, real life comes first for me.

Haylen: could you plesae clarify this statement?

I don't like Empking's jump on the UK wagon, especially without reason and the fact that all evidence points to him maybe being one of todays potential bandwagons.

[Xine]

What the hell is wrong with all of you? I said that Lowell was NOT likely to be the SK, and likely to be MAFIA. Do none of you have an OUNCE of ability to read, for christ's sake?

WHAT. THE FUCK. IS UNCLEAR. ABOUT. THIS. POST!?

*ahem*

Now that we've cleared that up, can we lynch Xine? Her last post isn't that great.

oh, sorry, I stand corrected, thank you for explaining. and let's not lynch me, I think we should lynch scum instead

[Xine]

There is a nice wagon on AGar, and the case seems to be because he does not like the way Haylen is playing, taking a 'she's scum, but if not she's playing so poorly she deserves to die' stance. I see that AGar is acting in a very arrogant fashion, and I do not claim to feel comfortable with his tone, but I do think he's correct that Haylen is uberscummy. she has spent this game making AtE excuses, stalling, and active lurking. when called out on it she complains and calls names, goes V/LA and continues to post (so V/LA to her is an excuse to active lurk?) she has promised a content post by the end of Monday, and if it is not posted on time, I will absolutely vote her for lying/stalling...again, early tues morning.
Back to AGar. I don't see him as scum for his attack on Haylen, or any other (?) reason.

Empking... Managed to lurk himself off everybody's radar in the last handful of pages, and the one person who was most adamant about pushing a case on him is conveniently (for him) dead. I don't see what UK and Glork saw when they declared him town, feel free to explain it to me, if you feel so inclined. I think he's scum. He spent most of day 1 pushing a really bad case, most of which was simply repeating the same bad point over and over again. (causing noise and distraction) and then quietly hopped on at the end of the snake wagon.
Nikanor, do you still think Emp is scum?

Intrigued by the UK case, working on taking a proper stance, but I feel myself being convinced she is scum, put me down as watching her.
Jack: do you think you directing my play will make me alter my behavior? are you just trying to set a scum-trap for me?
VOTE: Empking

[Xine]

Substancial post on monday.

Lying,
her whole game has been exuses as to why she isn't playing. I'm sure she'll have an exuse to cover for this lie.
VOTE: Haylen
as promised

btw antihero, I was not attacking Jack

[Xine]

Haylen: did you read post 529
Jack: are you asking me to explain, or antihero? I will anyways, just in case
Haylen has time to active lurk, and make AtE excuses as to why that's all she's doing. she has spent a lot of energy making these excuses, if she would apply some of that energy to scum hunting, maybe she would have posted some content. (as she promised)

As far as I could see, the only case on Agar was for the style of his attack on Haylen, which I don't see as scummy, more as supper frustrated and also arrogant. I hope that helps to clarify my stance.

[Xine]

Haylen: Breaking a promise=lying, and read more carefully, I accused you of lying exactly one time. how about that content post?
(ninjad by UK)

[Xine]

For you VV:

The case on AGar is basically this:
1. He is tunneling on Haylen like it's his fucking dayjob and is actively ignoring other options.

You do realize his vote is on UK right now?

Basically, he is capitalizing on Haylen's uselessness, constantly attacking her and pointing fingers towards her to appear like he is scumhunting. Whenever questioned about his Haylen vote, he proceeds to repeat the same bullshit about meta being trash and Haylen being useless.

Someone else pointed out that there are other useless players in this game, some of whom have suspicion on them from several people, why would he not go with one of them?

His attacks are so obviously his go-to whenever the alarm 'I need to look like I'm scumhunting' rings in his scum mind.

The only “support” he ever got on the Haylen thing was from me, and I had my own reasons, in fact I think he moved his vote to UK before I placed mine on Haylen. Where’s the alarm?

He continuously attacks Haylen on her uselessness(albeit true), and not updating his case.

How can he? She’s not exactly giving us anything new to work with

This is evidenced by his ISO #15, when AGar first attacked Haylen for not joining the Snake wagon and hoping over to the CJMiller wagon. Even after CJMiller and Snake's town flips, he proceeds to attack her, precisely to keep the illusion of scumhunt.

Have you considered that he actually thinks she’s scum?

2. He has a very convenient 'Meta is Trash', which can more be accurately expounded as 'Meta is Trash, don't use it to defend other people or I will be mean to you.....except for this one dude named AGar who's scum meta is 100% reliable, and it can be used as defense if ever he is wagoned and if he was scum in this game you won't catch him ever so don't vote for him, ever'.

Now that you put it that way, I can really dig that point. Shit! So much for my solid AGar=town read. I guess I’m gonna have to sit on this fence for a while.
Thanks a lot

[Xine]

Nocmen, it seems like you like to ignore questions that are directed at you, why is that?

VV:

Now that you put it that way, I can really dig that point. Shit! So much for my solid AGar=town read. I guess I’m gonna have to sit on this fence for a while.
Thanks a lot

I don't even understand what you're trying to say here.

I'm saying I thought Agar was town, but now I am really wondering.

[Xine]

Nachomamma, why did you wait untill now to claim this result?

[Xine]

I just learned 2 things, 1, I need to trust myself more, I thought UK was the SK, but I didn't say anything because I had such a weak case...and 2, I also was not aware that a cop could not get a guilty on the SK.
I was about to vote you, UK, but you make such a pretty appeal to live another day...hmmm...I was warned that you are an amazing mafia player.
Nacho, what do you have to say about UK's claim?

[Xine]

Nachomamma, why did you wait untill now to claim this result?

[Xine]

I just want to see what Nacho has to say about it.
Anyway, I think this is an absolutly absurd situation, and the sooner we get more real information the better.
VOTE: UncertainKitten

[Xine]

Jack, did you just re-afirm your SK claim? and what are you doing still alive? Glork, Your theroy on LMP+Antihero scum would explain alot. Agar, such insight... Do you still get scum vibes from Hayl now that she's talking a little?

[Xine]

No defense needed. I am the SK. Direct my kill as you will.

If you believe he's scum fake claimed cop, all that other stuff is extraneous, and contradictory.

[Xine]

Agar: Forgive my mocking tone, please. I meant to tease, not to mock, and also, I've done some research into Glork as a player, and your point about him being always right is way more insightful then I originally thought. Thank you for pointing out that Haylen's contribution is primarily meta based, realizing that, and looking back, much of her input into this game has been about meta, largely her own. I'm not sure what that means, but I will spend some time mulling it over.
I really need to do a re-read, and I will get to that when I can. Just a surface thought, the LMP wagon looks good, and I am leaning that way. May the MS gods protect me from confirmation bias as I re-read this game.

[Xine]

methinks this is L-1

[Xine]

I have done a re-skim of this game. I have not found LMP to be conclusively scum, and therefore I am unwilling to vote him. My main 2 suspects are Empking, for the same reasons I had before+ more active lurking. and Antihero, who had failed to post in this thread in 10 days, but is still posting all over MS. None of his posts in this game looked at all townish to me either.
VOTE: Antihero

[Xine]

Empking, are you defending me? that seems really odd to me.

[Xine]

???
What questions are you thaling about eldarad?

[Xine]

Glork, why were you not voting at the end of either lynch wagon so far? Is it coincidence that you unvoted LMP at L-1, and have been very quiet ever since?

[Xine]

That is a lovely case on LMP Glork.

If Lmp flips scum, I will be even more convinced of Epmking as scum, since the only thing he's done, other then active lurker style votes, is to try to string Yos up for "defending" LMP. So...Emp creates an entire case out of the assuption that lmp is scum, and does not vote him, just pushes the wagon on a townie.
If LMP flips scum, I will be less convinced of antihero as scum, their bickerings look legit, not like distancing to me.
Haylen and AGar, again looks like pretty legit bicking, and both seem scummy in their own way. I would bet that exactly one of the two is scum,
and Jack. No reason, just gut.

[Xine]

Haylen made a pretty good case againt you Agar, and your only response is that she is an idiot. What kind of response is that? She has repeatedly asked you for a "case" on her, and all you give is oneliners and abuse.


as far as my vote...BAA
VOTE: RC

[Xine]

A couple things I'm curious about. Why did you not want the hammer dropped Nacho?
Eldarad, why would you specifically ask people to hold off hammering because you were posting, then make a post that has very little content, and hammer? I would think that "hold off on hammering until I post" would mean that you had points for discussion and would wait for feed back?

[Xine]

[Xine]

Hey... Nacho, I realize that you wanted the hammer, sorry, I'm a bit dumb sometimes.
But, Hey, RC, why didn't you claim in your last post, when you were at L-1 with a Nacho willing to hammer? Are you actually scum making a dying attempt to role fish the cop?

[Xine]

EBRP: fish the Doc

[Xine]

DH: I don't think I said this yet, glad you're here...I'm not really understanding the eldarad wagon. Nacho said that this is going on, not because of any investigation result, but to prove some kind of point. If the point is Quick hammer=bad, I agree, but not sure how calling for a claim at L-5 is going to make that point. oh well, I'm getting pretty used to being the clueless townie.

Eldarad, I really do want a response to my earlier question, but I'll rephrase it... Nacho asked that nobody hammer. you post, asking that nobody hammer, because you had something to say, that something was "I think RC is scum" and a hammer. why would you ask folks to not hammer, and then not pursue more discussion? should I put you on the clueless townie list with me? (are you scum or stupid?)

Agar's last post (before his vote) was the most pleasant one he's made all game. yes, this too confuses me. A player who's standard response to everything else is to argue and call people stupid, in a situation where everyone is arguing the fine points of Nacho's cop plan, and Agar's input is just agreeable and friendly???
Also, Agar, I noticed that much earlier in the game you gave a shoutout the "Glork is always right" and just before RC's flip, you make a point to tell Glork that he really isn't THAT good. why the change of heart?

Glork, I am disappointed in myself for sheeping you. you have an amazing reputation, but that does not excuse me from thinking for myself. (10 lashings please) Maybe I don't know better (here's where I finally pull the Newb card) but VV has been around a while, right?

VV, do you make a habit out of sheeping votes, why did you do so in this case?

[Xine]

since we don't know who is lying, I would say give your results today, but hey, that's your call. My vote going to Agar, I don't really have time to go into why, gotta go to work now. In a nutshell, I liked eldarad's responses. did not like AGar's

VOTE: AGAR

[Xine]

let's lynch him today and then lynch whichever of the claimed doc's are still alive tomorrow

[Xine]

The reason I chose Agar to vote is mostly because of his change in tone. as soon as Eldarad was targeted he became friendly in a way that reminded me of UK-Scum. Obv the situation is different here, but the similarity is striking.

Vas is on my scumdar as well, still waiting to see what he has to say today before I finish judging.

Lowell, because of his play style is difficult to read, and becomes a really easy mis-lynch target near end game, and I would recomend that Nacho investigate him if he hasn't done so already.

Expect my activity to be even lower then normal for the weekend. Mini scum-meet happening at my place today thru mon. Not calling it V/LA, as, I will make sure to read along as always, and maybe even make a short post during that time.

[Xine]

Glork, why would you policy lynch? I am starting to think that you are scum. Haylen, you know that Jack flipped VT right? I am assuming that we lynch Eldarad tomorrow, but we will see in the "morning"

[Xine]

It is a trend that Yhill posts in my post-games before I do...<3. And thank you sweetie for pointing out one of the few things I did right in this game.
I actually feel ok about this game, I managed to not only catch scum, but participate in their lynch in this game (UK) and now that's erased... oh well. When I gave an intensive effort to put together suspect list at the end of day 3, and then I was still alive in the morning, as the only cop confirmed town, I knew that I was 100% wrong, (which I was) and that would have been key information in late game scum hunting, had the game gotten that far.
Nacho, I was really impressed buy the way you handled the cop role. DH, You seem to attract the Doc role, lol.
Good game everybody!
I think I'll head back to the newbie cue for my next game.
<3 U all

[Xine]

I had rather given myself away as a vanilla

[Xine]

BTW, eldarad, here is a good place to discuss your pizza making issues