Fringe Mafia (Game Over, role PMs posted)

[Nocmen]

/confirm

And yay for getting a new fringe ep this week, damn baseball taking away these eps from us.

[Nocmen]

Whoa, this exploded when I missed checking up on it last night.

First of all, HOMJ seems quick to push votes early against Fur for the NL. However, that wagon seems to go way too early, with not much reason why. Emp's and Doombunny's votes seem like they could be good scum wagon votes, but it's impossible to tell because Fur seems a bit too eager to defend himself. And the claim. He's too afraid of getting lynched so he's willing to claim at L-3. I want to hear more about his claim, and why he's so eager to defend himself at L-3. I wouldn't vote him just for going for the NL, esepcially if it seemed early in RVS.

[Nocmen]

Why are half the players no voting? (I'd like an answer from the non-voting players)

Well, I felt that we passed through RVS with the first few votes on Fur, so by the time I read the thread, I had no need to place a random vote of my own. And honestly, I need to think more about the Fur wagon, I was hoping we'd gain more information with his insights into why he claimed and why he's trying so hard not to get himself killed.

[Nocmen]

Nocman - has only one of his 3 posts are game related and that one posts seems awfully political, I now need to look if emp and bunny responded to his accusation that their votes on furc looked like scum votes. I think if someone is accusing them of scum they should at the very least comment on it.

My posts have been infrequent because as I've said, my internet access is extremely limited during the weekends. This game started on Thursday, and to me, the weekends start on Friday. I'm sorry that I can't be here constantly to post immediately after every post to reply. Additionally, you move your vote from me because I didn't get a reply from emp and bunny? Or is it because fur looked more suspicious. If he looks more suspicious, then why did you even vote for me? The posts from furc between the vote on me and the vote on him are little to go with, I can't see much why you would change your mind other than you were called out by LordChronos for the vote on me. On top of that, as Emp mentioned, you seem to keep your options open. Not that I'm forcing you to say whether you think someone is town or scum now and hold you to it for the whole game, but your votes seem to say that you'll take any small reason to change your votes.

@Empking

Then you should actually vote HOMJ, because he defended Fur with WIFOM, made a straw man argument to justify his vote, backtracked on his view of Fur when he was attacked on it, and made a ultra paranoid PBPA.

Why do you say HOMJ's WIFOM is more scummy than Fur's WIFOM?

@Empking

Then you should actually vote HOMJ, because he defended Fur with WIFOM, made a straw man argument to justify his vote, backtracked on his view of Fur when he was attacked on it, and made a ultra paranoid PBPA.

1. Did not really defend him
2. Straw man is new to me but doubt it is anti town
3. Change of opinion =/= back tracking
4. Pushing me now after I linked you to furc and not commenting on my link of you to is classic deflection
5. Not sure what pbpa is but I'm assuming you mean giving my reads on people in the game, had nothing to do with paranoia.

I have no reason to be paranoid and these votes on me are just silly.

I do feel that straw man arguments are anti-town, they are twisting words to get a personal agenda.

And no, I don't feel that these votes on you are silly at all. Look at the reply I had to your previous post above.

Additionally, you don't want to be part of a furc wagon, so you unvote him and almost immedaitely turn around and vote him again. How is this different from the same early wagon you didn't want to be on? It's the same wagon.
VOTE: HopOnMyJoystick

[Nocmen]

Ok so looks like I missed a post by noc and he says something very wrong.

@noc - you say I vote furc and almost immediately unvote him

do you always make up information or is this your first time?

I voted furc on page 1, for the NL

I unvoted him on page 3 and 40 posts later, how is that almost immediately?

Also not a huge deal cause I understan weekends and such but technically you lied again saying you have said that your access on the weekend is limited, you never say any such thing.

Also my vote on you was just to get you more active, people will tend to come and play if they have a vote on them.

You had your vote on furc, you switched it to me, and then you relatively quickly move that vote back to furc. Which makes no sense because none of the posts furc had between that time really would give you much good reason to vote for him.
As for weekends, I thought it was this game I said it in a post directly, was another, but at least in my sig it's shown that for most of this month, I have limited access during weekends becuase I'll be traveling most of them.
I fail to see where your vote for me was because of inactivity. I understand pressuring the lurkers, but lets look at the post you voted for me in:

Whoa, this exploded when I missed checking up on it last night.

First of all, HOMJ seems quick to push votes early against Fur for the NL. However, that wagon seems to go way too early, with not much reason why. Emp's and Doombunny's votes seem like they could be good scum wagon votes, but it's impossible to tell because Fur seems a bit too eager to defend himself. And the claim. He's too afraid of getting lynched so he's willing to claim at L-3. I want to hear more about his claim, and why he's so eager to defend himself at L-3. I wouldn't vote him just for going for the NL, esepcially if it seemed early in RVS.

do you fail at reading? I ask cause you say I am quick to push votes however I never push votes. I voted furclow for voting no lynch, I provided my reasoning as why NL is not a town move.

I later unvoted cause I have read up on furc's games a little and I see how he plays and lynching him to me seems to be more of a policy lynch, people are voting him just because they latched on to one thing he did.

of course he isn't helping himself by claiming early and asking about mafia fake claims and such, but I really don't think he would be that obvious if he were mafia (of course I could be wrong)

You also say that his wagon seems to go away too early but actually nobody has removed them from his wagon but me, and when I unvoted, somebody else joined it so that is a misrepresentation of facts.

and if you are town and somebody suggested something anti-town like a no lynch, why would you not vote them just for that? NL is anti town, it removes the need to scum hunt and anyone pushing for a no lynch should be voted.

and before anyone questions why I just made that comment and am not currently voting for furc, I unvoted because he indicated he wasn't serious about the NL and also his lynch just seems to convenient, about as easy as a no lynch, and it would eliminate the need for real scum hunting.

We are just a few days in on the game,let's scum hunt and talk about other people before rushing to lynch. So for right now just based on the misrep of facts

vote nocmen

something about him just rubs me the wrong way, I feel he is acting like he is town

You just gave reasons for voting me, and now you're going back and saying "no, I was voting to pressure people who hadn't posted much like you"

@LC

I went back and read and your straw man accusation failed as I never twisted anything noc said

I did misread one aspect of his post, I thought when he said" the wagon went too fast" he meant "the wagon went away too fast"

but he still lied when he said I pushed for his lynch, cause I never pushed for his lynch

right now I have caught noc in 2 pretty big lies and one minor one

for those at home the lies

1. I pushed furc's lynch - never pushed anything
2. I voted and quickly unvoted - 12 hours and 40 posts is not pushing
3. Said he posted his activity is limited, he never does - minor lie to possibly excuse his lurking but the Internet issue can be real so that is why I am mostly ignoring this one

1. If you said that you think he's scummy and you voted for him again, how is that not pushing for his lynch? You also said that you think his claim is a safe claim and not a real claim. That seems like you think he's scummy and want to lynch him to me.
2. As said above, this is more in the time where you voted for me and then switched it and voted towards furc again.

[Nocmen]

To update what I was trying to say, I don't see where you were vague in your vote for me. You gave reasons. But now you're saying they don't matter and it was a pressure vote in disguise? What do you think of those reasons now, do they still stay?
On top of that, a strawman attack is basically that, taking words and misinterpreting them into your favor. That seems exactly what you did.
Between that, and comparing your vote on furc compared to what you say about him, I'm happy with keeping my vote on you.

[Nocmen]

Oh and as stated twice already the accused straw man was when I said rush to lynch cause I misread noc's statement, I have explained 2 or 3 times how I wrongly interpreted it

I understand what you said about your defense of the strawman attack, but that's just a common defense I've seen to the attack: you simply say you misinterpreted it. In essence, to me the attack is when you take someone's words and change them to get a meaning more beneficial to you, trying to get others to interpret them the same way as well. And I'm seeing your defense of it as a common defense when called out on an attack like that.

[Nocmen]

You mean when I use common sense, common sense is defending scum?

Sometimes when scum hunting you have to use wifom.

I ask myself all the time, if I was scum would I do that? That is how I scum hunt, not sure what other method I can use to catch scum than try to use scum mentality and town mentality when trying to determine motive

When you scumhunt that way, what's your opinion of possible statements of others that may be wifom?

[Nocmen]

Blargh, more than a page of reading to do. I'm just going to skim through for now so if I miss something then please point it out.

1. I still would like to hear from Ghost, SV, and Sora about the stuff that's been going on in the game. Mostly though about
-The events that happened in the game (Such as Furcs early claim)
-Who they think is scummy and why
-What they think about furc and HOMJ
2. Noc and LC's cases on HOMJ are pretty good and I'm beginning to have second thoughts about Fur. I want to hear from Fur before I make up my mind though.

Are you having doubts because HOMJ looks to be a better candidate for a D1 lynch, or that the case we have on HOMJ undermines the credibility of his attack on furc?

Additionally, HOMJ, I'm having difficulty figuring out who some of your posts are directed towards.

[Nocmen]

Furc: Let me get this straight, you vote for HOMJ, go through a trade of posts with him, and unvote him based on meta, correct?
You do realize that your arguments against him are much of the same that he has against you? Your play seems quite similar to his, but you only appear when you're called out it seems. A bit too convenient for my liking.
You say that HOMJ should be our lynch, but as mentioned just above, why not you when you have the same argument, and seem much less cooperative with your answering?
Voting NL being WIFOM is one of the biggest loads of "crap" that I've seen in a while. That is the only main cornerstone difference between your defense over HOMJ's.

[Nocmen]

I'm not really sure what to say about Furc's....whining?
Furc, you never replied to my last post:

Furc: Let me get this straight, you vote for HOMJ, go through a trade of posts with him, and unvote him based on meta, correct?
You do realize that your arguments against him are much of the same that he has against you? Your play seems quite similar to his, but you only appear when you're called out it seems. A bit too convenient for my liking.
You say that HOMJ should be our lynch, but as mentioned just above, why not you when you have the same argument, and seem much less cooperative with your answering?
Voting NL being WIFOM is one of the biggest loads of "crap" that I've seen in a while. That is the only main cornerstone difference between your defense over HOMJ's.

Lord, you really think both fur and I are scum together?

Just because he said you two were scummier than someone else, doesn't mean you two have to be scum together. Way to twist words again.

[Nocmen]

Lord said -If I had the power to lynch HOMJ and Fur

he said AND not OR

meaning if he could we would both be lynched, thsts why I asked if he thinks we both are scum

so now how do you explain your twisting noc?

I'm well aware of what he said. You're saying that wanting to lynch both of you together means that you are both scum. In day one, early one, you target with the lynch the person who you feel is either most scummy, or in case of that not happening because of the lack of information, you lynch someone who you feel has the potential to hurt the town the most. I feel that Furc currently could fit in either of these categories, while you are in the first to me.

Also noc, how can you really have nothing to say about furc's "whining" as you put it, really? You can't say anything?

opens window, throwing out nocman's credibility

It's one of those things where at first glance, I'm not sure what to say of it. I need to go through and see more of Furc's playstyle to determine if it is anything out of the ordinary with how he's defending himself. I'll try to get to that as soon as I possibly can.

Furc: Let me get this straight, you vote for HOMJ, go through a trade of posts with him, and unvote him based on meta, correct?
You do realize that your arguments against him are much of the same that he has against you? Your play seems quite similar to his, but you only appear when you're called out it seems. A bit too convenient for my liking.
You say that HOMJ should be our lynch, but as mentioned just above, why not you when you have the same argument, and seem much less cooperative with your answering?
Voting NL being WIFOM is one of the biggest loads of "crap" that I've seen in a while. That is the only main cornerstone difference between your defense over HOMJ's.

And one last bit if fact and I'll let people have time to respond, besides coming after me agressive once i voted him, noc has not made any comments to furc or about his case with the exception of the one I quoted. If 5 people so far think he is scummy, how can mr. Noc who has seemed so credible pushing my lynch, completely ignore the largest wagon of the game?

It almost seems noc doesn't want to be involved with a furc lynch but doesn't ever speak out for or against it, other than whatever he says in this quoted post.

Quite interesting if you ask me. His attack on me is looking more and more like an omgus attack instead of a town trying to scum hunt attack, but again I am biased so I'm curious what others think.

You do realize that I was going after Furc as well? I'm trying to figure out how he actually would respond and defend himself to the questions I ask. Usually, if I ask questions, it's their response that will make me decide whether or not I'd vote for them. I felt that the wagon was adequate enough to pressure Furc into replying to the questions. Which he hadn't replyed to when you posted this.

Which takes me to Furc's reply:

I'm not really sure what to say about Furc's....whining?
Furc, you never replied to my last post:

Furc: Let me get this straight, you vote for HOMJ, go through a trade of posts with him, and unvote him based on meta, correct?
You do realize that your arguments against him are much of the same that he has against you? Your play seems quite similar to his, but you only appear when you're called out it seems. A bit too convenient for my liking.
You say that HOMJ should be our lynch, but as mentioned just above, why not you when you have the same argument, and seem much less cooperative with your answering?
Voting NL being WIFOM is one of the biggest loads of "crap" that I've seen in a while. That is the only main cornerstone difference between your defense over HOMJ's.

Lord, you really think both fur and I are scum together?

Just because he said you two were scummier than someone else, doesn't mean you two have to be scum together. Way to twist words again.

I unvoted him because I've played with him as scum, and he is not playing like that.
I would rather be mislynched as a townie, than lose him if he is a doctor.
Hence why I'm not voting for him, and not going to.

I said HOMJ should be our lynch to get a reaction out of him. I liked the way he reacted. I took my vote off. I am currently not voting.

I appear here when I have time and remember to play mafia. I have no reservations about posting here more or less than any other thread. I am not scared to post here, or nervous, and I will answer any questions.

I figured a lot of the questions you had asked here were sort of rhetorical and self-explanatory.

Why would you say such a thing that he should be the lynch when he was already under attack, as well as the fact that as I mentioned, you'd allow yourself to be attacked for the very same reasons that you go after HOMJ, even if it is just a reaction.
I don't see that they were self-explanatory at all, I see them as more proof of your unwillingness to cooperate with the town.

And then we get to more WIFOM:

Furc: Let me get this straight, you vote for HOMJ, go through a trade of posts with him, and unvote him based on meta, correct?
You do realize that your arguments against him are much of the same that he has against you? Your play seems quite similar to his, but you only appear when you're called out it seems. A bit too convenient for my liking.
You say that HOMJ should be our lynch, but as mentioned just above, why not you when you have the same argument, and seem much less cooperative with your answering?
Voting NL being WIFOM is one of the biggest loads of "crap" that I've seen in a while. That is the only main cornerstone difference between your defense over HOMJ's.

And one last bit if fact and I'll let people have time to respond, besides coming after me agressive once i voted him, noc has not made any comments to furc or about his case with the exception of the one I quoted. If 5 people so far think he is scummy, how can mr. Noc who has seemed so credible pushing my lynch, completely ignore the largest wagon of the game?

It almost seems noc doesn't want to be involved with a furc lynch

but doesn't ever speak out for or against it, other than whatever he says in this quoted post.

Quite interesting if you ask me. His attack on me is looking more and more like an omgus attack instead of a town trying to scum hunt attack, but again I am biased so I'm curious what others think.

ok, take this into consideration.

if i am scum, and he is scum, he would pretty much know i was going to be lynched and bus me
if i was scum, and he was town, he wouldn't care to vote me
if i was town, and he was scum, though, he wouldn't want to be associated with a mislynch.

1 and 3 are WIFOM to me, you can't just assume things like that. As for number 2, the only possible one that can be true, why wouldn't I care to vote you? You've shown an arugment that is based around WIFOM and been not fully cooperative.
Honestly, a lot of it seems as if you're scum and trying to take advantage of the fact I haven't voted you yet to try and take me down with you, when I gave my reasons above, is that I was waiting to see your reply above to determine my course of action.

Unvote, Vote: Furcolow

[Nocmen]

trust me I am glad you are voting for furc but earlier in the post you said you were going to go look and see if this is how he typically defends himself but yet you vote him putting him at L-1

if you were going to go do research on someone wouldn't you hold off voting for them until you did the research you said you were going to do?

I could, but he reached a point where he talked himself into his own grave enough during the reply to my questions.

[Nocmen]

I shall wordlessly = cannot be interpreted as anything but a not-so-subtle implication of having restriction.

A post restriction that prevents you from doing anything useful... That's something I've never seen before XD

Hell, despite the fact that its probably not true, every time SV posts it makes me feel more and more like that's the case. SV Quick, One "Ding!" if Tonys right, two "Ding!"s for no XD

In all seriousness, SV really needs to get his act together whether I can dictate it or not.

didn't you know, Doom thinks he is running shit.

Nope, I'm just annoyed that SV doesn't seem to even really care enough about the game to make even one decent post.

Maybe you haven't, but I have:

[

ULTRA-IMPORTANT GAME-SPECIFIC SHIT

]

1.)

Bastardmodgamelol.

2.)

Any roles with the ability to communicate privately with another player are able to do so at any time, day or night.

3.)

All anti-town roles have been equipped with safeclaims.

4.)

There are two things that may result in a person being no longer able to post in the thread (or via private communication channels): a person may be Missing, or they may be Dead. While Missing people may be able to return to the game, Dead people are dead forever.

5.)

Missing players will not have their alignment and role revealed, unless they become Dead.

6.)

There is a possibility, however minute, that I am lying or omitting information about any or all of these things. See #1.

Anything is possible.