Mini 1084: The New Jersey Shore (Game Over)

[themanhimself]

Hmmm.....

[themanhimself]

I want to examine the lurkers more than anything right now

[chkflip]

Holy crap, no bueno. I'm re-reading as we speak... but I can't say that I'm seeing anything worthwhile as most of it is smoke up a VT's ass. I'll report back with questions as they come to me.

[Internet Stranger]

We are never going to get anywhere unless someone is under the gun, like Hanzo was. Even if he was innocent and it was retarded to hang himself, we still learn a lot by who was going after him.

I say vote for Guthrie, make him squeal like a pig and see what happens. If anyone hammers too quickly, we go after them the next day etc.

All this Sherlock Holmes examining posts is just a ruse the scum uses to buy time and stall the town. Lynch hard, lynch fast. Pressure the scum into making mistakes. So what what are you scumbags waiting for, start voting!

[chkflip]

VOTE: Guthrie

- I find it comically ironic that Chaotic Neutrality got the NK after blasting Guthrie (legitimately) twice.

[themanhimself]

Internet stranger, why do the scum need to stall? I would think it's to their advantage to have short days because that's one of the only times that they're vulnerable.

[Internet Stranger]

Have you even been in one of those towns where no one says anything? Where people just dont post and its usually just one person wondering where everyone is? Where the mod has to replace half the town?

No discussions, no mistakes, no scumhunting.

Its a fate worse than death.

[chkflip]

I love your website, IS. Reminds me of

my life

.

[Guthrie]

@Internet Stranger: So, you are scum. Simple as that.

You were in the wagon; You are the first one to post right after the night; you used that post to drwa attention from me, and you jumpen on the person everyone else was talking about before. I won't even say anything else. I am 100% sure you are scum.

Unvote Vote Internet Stranger

[Guthrie]

EBWOP : And, i was the one the night killed most attacked. Thats the oldest scum tactic, and i won't bother with anything else bup finding your partner. Lynch me if you want, guys, but i just found one scum. I am 100% sure of it.

[themanhimself]

Don't oversell your case Guthrie, it's not 100%. that said, what IS said about scum hunting seems pretty anti-town.

IS, my question wasn't about towns that don't post, but about towns that vote too quickly. It's possible to have every member of the game be an active poster and still go three weeks just debating. The question is, why is a quick day with active posting like we've had, good for the town? Particulalry in light of day one where we moved very quickly and mislynched.

[Guderian]

Have you even been in one of those towns where no one says anything? Where people just dont post and its usually just one person wondering where everyone is? Where the mod has to replace half the town?

No discussions, no mistakes, no scumhunting.

Its a fate worse than death.

What the hell is this? This is massive fluff, it doesnt advance the game at all.


I just read your iso as well, it is dripping with scum. The only time you sit fit to scumhunt/explain anything is when someone asks you directly. Half your posts are just comments on the game, and almost a third reference carrot cake. Instead of talking around her, lets talk about her. Do you think she is scum? Did you like her play? What about anyone else in this game? Why do you reference voting guthrie and a quick hammer again, which is highly detrimental to town?

Your play style doesn't appear to be one who has the towns best interest at heart.

vote: Internet stranger

[chkflip]

UNVOTE:

- This is true. Just wanted to read your response to the vote, that is all.
- I agree with everything stated about Internet Stranger. I'll have a greater analysis and questions for him soon. Until then...

@Internet Stranger:
- Who's your top suspect?
- Who, in your opinion, is closest to "confirmed" town?

[Carrotcake]

I've didn't check the site for three days. I don't see how that's out of the ordinary for a presumably slow day one. The sheer speed of the wagon was unnatural. Hanzo condemned himself to death; even with his dying, innocent breath, he was dripping with scuminess.

paraphrase: I would not have said scummy things if you didn't...

As if he is naturally predisposed to helping the mafia regardless of his role. If I was present then I would have pressed harder. I'll refrain from speaking any more about his character, as it would only lead to explitives. He can no longer directly reply and that would be impolite.

I'll post again when I get home.

[Rain]

Guthrie seems town in post 134. Bold move, selfless motives. I know it might be faked, but IS-scum seems more likely.

Vote: Internet Stranger

IS' posting style isn't new (meta from Mini Normal 1053), but you were much more aggressive. Now, you're just going with the flow.

I suspect Carrotcake to be a scumbuddy.

[xsrk]

Very sorry about my inactivity day one, I had way too much in RL to even use the computer as more than a word processor (5 pages on TKAM, due in 2 days). However, I'll try to be a lot more active today.

Hanzo cast the vote to lynch himself... dang... However, the sixth vote, which put the game in the position to lynch him, was Guderian.

Llamarble noticed my inactivity yesterday, as well as my posts which, looking back, do make me contradict myself; that was unintentional, I had meant to get back onto the site the next day but didn't. However, it's one of the more noticeable examples of scumhunting I've seen so far - he's analyzing the limited data. I've got a feeling that he's town - not a strong one that'd keep me from voting for him, if evidence appears, but I'm inclined to find him pro-town.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I see Guthrie and a few other players (Rain, primarily) to be - well, not necessarily linked, but there have been a few points in each others' defenses that don't seem to have too much backing. Guthrie, furthermore, also moved against Hanzo a bit yesterday, and voted for him after a few other players had; it's a possible bandwagon, though he was a bit more vocal than I would expect mafia to be. He seems to also not be making any particularly strong opinions, save those already supported by other players - looks a lot like camo. When you factor in the nightkill, well, I'm leaning towards scum on him... (and yes, I do know what framing is).

TheManHimself is encouraging a more active town - then again, it's a good way to appear townie without actually doing too much to try to find scum. He was the first vote on Hanzo which held throughout, though scum tend to join, not start, bandwagons; however, despite arguments for Hanzo_5 and a need for more discussion, it appears he more or less held fast. (It was close enough to a lynch already, we don't want the day ending early, and the errors in Hanzo's play are perfectly justifiableThat's not too troubling; what is is that he started a sort of crusade against Hanzo, and there wasn't (in my opinion) enough evidence to warrant lynching someone this early in the day

In the end, though it's subject to change,

VOTE GUTHRIE

Umm, n00b question, but what do "Fos" and "RVS" mean?

[Jase]

Xsrk:
FoS: Finger of Suspicion.
RVS: Random Voting Stage

Well so far today I'm liking a lynch on either Internet Stranger or chkflip.

Internet Stranger: I don't have a problem with your case on guthrie, but your "lynch lynch lynch gogogo" bit seems scum motivated. We had a short, short day yesterday. Why are you pushing for today to be short too? We need to get the discussion we didn't get yesterday today. Okay?

Chkflip: Lurky yesterday. Lurky today. Scum hunt. Do it. Random questions don't count. Like your ones directed to IS. It's pretty damn obvious who his top suspect is, and I'm always suspicious when people ask about another town list. No need to spell it out for scum. Also you used 'Ironic' incorrectly by both the actual and common wrong definition, which is probably a scum tell.

[Jase]

EBWOP: Chkflips short lived vote for guthrie might be distancing.

I also forgot to...

Vote: chkflip

[Hanzo_5]

Obligitory BAH! post

[chkflip]

This is a relatively modern use of the term, and describes a discrepancy between the expected result and actual results when enlivened by perverse appropriateness.

- Just thought I'd be persnickety and give you the version of irony I was speaking of. MOVING ON!

@xsrk:
- When you get a moment, scroll up to the top of this page and click the wiki button. Tons of pertinent information at your fingertips, including common abbreviations and logical fallacies (amongst other things).

@Jase [AKA] Jersey, Ah, So Excellent:
- It actually didn't appear to me that I was being as lurky as I am in this game, mainly because it isn't the only one I'm currently playing in; in other words, I hadn't realized I was posting as little as I was in this particular game when, in actuality, I'm posting a lot every day. Sorry Jase. Furthermore, I'm sorry Scotty B. I'll step it up from here on out.

- My initial "case" against guthrie was, simply put, just rolling with what (was obviously) the scum tried to ploy us with. Why? Simple, really. Though he could've just as easily been lying in post; however, like Rain said, it seems quite selfless and was exactly what I was hoping for. Scratch

Guthrie

off the possibles, if only for a moment.

- inb4 BAAA BAAAA SHEEPY MCSHEEPERSON for ^that as well as the following:

@Internet Stranger:
- You've been accused of band-wagoning, fluffing posts, having an anti-town playstyle, profusely humping carrotcake's leg, and "going with the flow." Just wanted to cast these to the side as I find some slightly valid, some just plain dumb, but overall? It's best I keep these in mind when overlooking what you've done thus far.

- When you hopped onto the band-wagon, you said "I bow to the awesomeness of Carrotcake" which, in itself, is whatever. No tell. What it opens up to me, however, is that you were completely content with sheeping along with CC no matter the result.

- You blurt out "that's OMGUS" which, again, is nothing solo. Compacted? Looks like more CC asskissery to me, buddying up with your favorite mate without having to actually say their name this time.

- "I'm waiting to see what Carrot says. Where did Carrot go?", WHAT? Why, on God's green mafia-riddled Earth, would you need to wait for Carrot to have an opinion on the person

you

voted for? Hanzo, to his credit, called you out. Your response? "Because CC was the one that called you out, why should I make the arguments for him? I love your aggressive defense by the way, very impressive." Which, to these eyes, reads like: 'Heyo Hanzo, I'm really happy with your style, and I'ma let you finish, but CARROTCAKE CONTROLS MY VOTE FOR ALL TIME!'

- I'd like to congratulate you for taking a whole page away from the constant CC comment, that really got everyone's attention off the fact that you're sheeping/buddying beyond belief. A single sentence stands out in post #94 when you said "People who dont post can't be read, so they might as well be scum." So true. People who only post other people's opinions with no solid base of their own can't easily be read either, so they might as well be scum too.

- Same post. "I say we have plenty of cannon fodder to go through, lets string him up and see what happens." You're openly admitting, again, that you don't care what Hanzo is so long as he's dead by night.

- Then, after aaaaaaaaaaaaaalllllllllllllllllllllllll that buttkiss, you realize 'OHSHI- IZ OBV' and threw her under the buss. Hard. "Is CarrotCake ever coming back? Dont forget, it was she that doomed poor, innocent Hanzo." Out of the six of us that voted Hanzo before he exploited his own retardation, yours is the only one without

any

merit

whatsoever

.

VOTE: Internet Stranger

[Llamarble]

VOTE: TheManHimself
I thought he was scum yesterday and the fact that he was pushing the wagon on a player who indeed turned out to be a lynchable townie only adds to that.
While it's important to get lurkers talking, lynching lurkers / inexperienced players is an easy way for scum to get mislynches.

Don't give him credit for never moving his vote; it got there randomly and was confirmed after Hanzo started to look like he might get himself lynched.

I felt that a lot of the evidence being leveled against Hanzo was null, as I pointed out yesterday, so using it to push the lynch of a townie is scummy.
Specifically an early roleclaim is poor play for either side, so I see it as a null tell.
Also all the OMGUS / flailing can be the reaction of an indignant townie or of desperate scum.
The initial Carrot reason (being last to vote not on top of another random vote) is just as easily coincidence too.
Those were major pillars of his case against Hanzo.

He is hunting, but I think he is lynchabletown hunting instead of scum hunting.

Everyone else on that wagon, especially those who joined up after it started to really look like it might lead to a lynch, deserves close scrutiny too for being pro-lynch on a townie with dubious evidence so early in the day.
Much of the reasoning against IS is good.
What I want to hear from IS is what he was expecting Carrot to say and how he would have responded.

Both TMH and IS have had weird interactions with Carrot.
TMH said during twilight that he wanted to talk about Carrot / Guthrie first thing, but didn't mention him
Carrot also has various FOSes on him but nobody seems to want to lynch him.
Often scum will FOS: Scumbuddy, vote: townie to do some distancing while keeping their vote off their friends.

TMH so far today has just asked a couple of general questions of IS, presumably in an attempt to look like he's hunting and at the same time saying "Guthrie don't overstate your case," defusing pressure against IS.

Carrot saying he would have stuck with a Hanzo lynch puts him in the same category as the other two as being on the townie lynch for reasons I find dubious. He did stir the pot and disappear, if only for 3 days (this is why short days are bad). His most recent post points out another example of Hanzo being inexperienced, but not particularly scummy.

Thus I think the scumteam is TMH/IS/Carrot

[Rain]

woops, correct formatting:

Vote: Internet Stranger

[Scott Brosius]

Vote Count 6

Carrotcake (0)-
chkflip (1)- Jase
Guderian (0)-
Guthrie (2)- Internet Stranger, xsrk
Internet Stranger (4)- Guthrie, Guderian, chkflip, Rain
Jase (0)-
Llamarble (0)-
Rain (0)-
themanhimself (1)- Llamarble
xsrk (0)-

Not Voting (2)- Carrotcake, themanhimself,

With 10 alive, it's 6 to a lynch. Deadline is December 13 at 11am EST.

[themanhimself]

Llamarble,
I guess I haven't been clear yet but I think it's IS. What I'm worried about is lynching too quickly again and he's already 2 away from a lynch. That and the fact that I'm really suspicious of carrot cake right now are really what's keeping me from putting my vote down yet. I mean IS's strategies are clearly anti-town at best, but I would like to see what he has to say in the way of defending himself before I do anything solid. As far as carrot goes, popping up on day one to start a bandwagon and then disappearing and coming back on day two with nothing helpful is pretty scummy, but again, I want to see what she says first.

Also, I don't generally find chkflip to be the scummiest player by any means, but this one off post is just really suspicious to me,

Holy crap, no bueno. I'm re-reading as we speak... but I can't say that I'm seeing anything worthwhile as most of it is smoke up a VT's ass. I'll report back with questions as they come to me.

Internet stranger, you're two to lynch, what's your defense?

[Internet Stranger]

Wow, I love all this activity. This is certainly more fun than some dead town.

My M.O. is definitely lynch hard, lynch fast. Pressure the scum, force them into making mistakes. Just seeing who puts down the hammer can be valuable information enough. Although in this case, Hanzo stole that away from me. Either way, it works for me, I catch all sorts of scum using my methods. Im quite prolific at it, actually. I dont care if it gets someone panties in a bunch like Guthries and that one other guy. I dont sit around and do a circlejerk for days on end trying to establish from pollyannic type of congress in order to maybe figure out who should be voted off the island.

I look around, I see some scum. I vote for them and try to get them lynch. Its rather simple really. I dont comb every syllable uttered by someone 20 pages ago and do some in-depth analysis on everything. The last person I encountered doing that was scum anyways. Im not going to create some stupid point system where I give plus or minus scumpoints to people. Thats just silly. There is no crazy underhanded methodology where I keep a whiteboard of links or whatever all that other crap is.

Hanzo never tried to dissuade anyone from thinking that he wasnt scum. He threw a hissy fit and held his breath until he turned blue and killed himself. I was trying to get CarrotCake to say more to find out what her deal was. She was the one that put Hanzo under the spotlight, how were we supposed to know that Hanzo was actually a suicidal psycho? She disappeared for days on end while her little snowball turned into an avalanche. Lurking like that prevents all the read-geeks from getting anything out of her. You should be thanking me for trying to poke her a few times and seeing what comes out. Which by the way, we still dont know crap about her motives. Did she start the wagon as scum? as just an innocent poking around. If she lurks, we wont know.

Ok lets see, about these inane votes on me:
I put one vote on Guthrie to see what happens (I even said so in the damn post!) and all of you go nuts like monkeys on banana day.

Guthrie pulls out a Hanzo and goes all OMGUS crazy on me. One poke vote on him and im suddenly 100% scum. I get all excited and have the tissues at the ready when im 100% sure too, but this is ridiculous. Its like he pulled out the scumhunting book I wrote 10 years ago and is just going down the list of "scum tells". You still got about 500 more cheap tells to put up, amigo.

I love chkflip. He is like my best friend now. I tell people to put pressure on Guthrie (and its working wonders) and chkflip gets it and goes right at it. As soon as a few alarmists start pointing fingers at me, he jumps on the pressure wagon on me. Bravo! Too bad his CC reasoning on me is faulty, but hey, well played my man. I hope you save some ammo for when I pick out the scum though.

Oh yea, I forgot. Youre right chkflip I didnt care whether Hanzo was scum or not. Its early on, people are going to die anyways. In reality, you all are cannon fodder. I dont care who lives or dies, except me. I dont care if I come into town, catch me all the scum and ride off into the sunset as the hero as the sole survivor. More glory for me. (I already know that to catch all the scum some other townies need to live too, dont try to come up with some bs tell there). The fact remains that I dont care who else survives to the end of the game as im alive and the scum are all dead.

Every dead body is information that can be used. I just wished that Hanzo wasnt the one that hung himself. Thanks a lot, buddy. I count on townies being general cowards and trying to be all hesitant about putting down hammers. You didnt help matters, but thats ok. Plenty of scum left to catch.

Manhimself just wants his name out there. Dont anyone forget about him! He has to look all introspective and stuff first before he votes, but probably has no clue what he is doing.

Guderian comes in with a snipe based on weak reasoning. "Towns bests interests". Ha, what a load of crap. That is way too blatant to be scum, but I will keep my eye on you.

Rain, what are you doing? Are you just trying to set off the scumdar on weak players too? If youre bringing up old games, youre playing the exact scumtoadie game you did last time.

The scum is Jase, though.

Unvote: Guthrie
Vote: Jase

Oh yea, the whiny bitches are going to want reasons. Eh, you can just look back on the day before and youll see it. He is looking for power roles, blatant off-wagon jumping, getting his name out there with votes but not joining the fray, etc etc. Whatever, this "I want a laundry list of reasons before I vote for him" mechanic is just weak cowardly crap anyways. Everything is a damn tell, like in amateur poker.

Just vote for him, youll see him crack.