Open 267- Lovers Mafia- Game Over

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/confirm

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Suspicious Lurkers Are Suspicious.

VOTE: Erinyes

Has been completely invisible in another mafia game for several days. This is especially bad for a six-player game.

[chkflip]

- More often than not, they turn out to be helpful for scum.
- I do encourage active posting; the more we have, the easier the lynches.
- The lurker bit, however, was pure RVS tomfoolery.

[chkflip]

@Lateral:
- Your outlook is quite intriguing. RVS is RVS, though I am implying that, if he doesn't show, he

could

be of use to them in the sense that we couldn't achieve lynch. Won't the first vote take all four townies? (Please excuse my confusion, this is my first game of this type.)
- And I you.
- It is, in fact, the way I feel and is fully related. However, I also considered the fact that this is RVS and also the very beginning of the game. I hope that Erinyes shows up. And soon.

[PE]
- Hiraki is lurking? Already? Right after we TALKED ABOUT THIS? =P

[chkflip]

@Lateral:
- The game erinyes has been invisible in for five days: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 0&start=50
- Your outlook intrigued me because, at face value, you're asking me a question I've already answered. I'm just not properly explaining, I suppose.
-- I was implying that he's a poor townie that scum could use.
-- It's day one, there's a 1/6 chance that my RVS vote landed on mafia.
-- In other words, I'm trying to go for scum. I have no idea if Erin is either.
- [PE] I feel like you have the right goal in mind, as does Hiraki; any particular read, however, is up in the air. Our conversation has given me no tells thus far.

@Hiraki:
- Sometimes I care, sometimes I don't? What do you mean?
- I was merely trying to answer his questions of me. Why shouldn't I care about questions asked of me?

[chkflip]

@Empking:
- Just wait 'til shotty gets here. That guy seems like he chugs energy drinks before each post.

@Lateralus:
- I missed a question of yours: no, I haven't finished a game with Erinyes.

@Hiraki:
- No, I'm giving my honest opinion about lurkers whilst also taking into consideration that it was RVS. How can it not be both?

[chkflip]

- Which was followed with all caps and a =P to boot, meaning I was joking.

[chkflip]

@dr:
- Not trying to lurk, just waiting and hoping for more to develop.

@Later:
- From the start, even with your RVS vote, you've been "lynchlynchlynch gogogogo." Is there a reason you want to see day phases rushed?

- You jump to me, then to Hiraki... for what? Are asking questions and voting inexclusive to you? Do not like.

VOTE: Later

@all:
- To note, Later is

L-1

and I've done so because, of us all, he is most prominently scummy.

[chkflip]

- Your reasonings are fair enough, though they could still be scum-driven. No, I would not prefer you to sit and do nothing. Is there no comfortable medium for you?
-- Note that I'm not demanding you change your play style at all, just asking if you can see things from our perspectives.

- Who are you talking about having a town read on? That part confused me.

- What I meant was: do you always vote and question simultaneously? You've actually answered that without realizing it.

- I don't get the point in asking someone for their town reads, that just sounds like a scummy elimination tactic to me.
-- Note that, yes, I asked you about a town read; however, it's only because you mentioned it.

[chkflip]

@Hiraki:
- I don't think you'll be getting anything from Erin. It's now day seven since he's even logged in. That's some pretty dedicated lurking if that's what he's doing (for other games, obv not this one).

- Could you please elaborate on "Townhunting. For the win."?

@Lateral:
- What do you mean by "tech"? I don't think I've seen this term in mafia.

- What made your change your mindset from what I beleive to where you are now?

@shotty/empking:
-

IGMEOY

!

[chkflip]

@David:
- Welcome.

- Ah, these are valid points. He's played the "I missed that" twice now, don't know if you just meant toward my question or when he overlooked shotty.

- I've got my eye on shotty for that very reason.

@Lateralus:
- Ooh, I learned a new synonym for awesome. Stupendous.

- I was referring to the point you'd made earlier about how you'd also thought that asking for town tells was silly. What made you change your mind?

[chkflip]

@Lateral:
- And your post 42 was the reason I even asked, I wanted you to elaborate. Thanks for trying to make

me

look like the doucebag, though, that helps my read on you.

[chkflip]

Continues calling things IIoA... but does it himself as both... so how can that be a viable point used by him. Doesn't make a whole hell of a lot of sense to me. Still got my eye on Lateral as his scum partner (since an argument between two scumbuddies could easily make them both look town) but shotty just, pardon the pun, shot to the top of my list.

Vote: Shotty

[chkflip]

- The fact that Shotty is so jumpy doesn't alarm me, as I've played a game with him before. It does strike me that he'd put himself on the plate like that, however, as if to push that he's so town that he'll sacrifice himself when that couldn't be further from helpful right now. There's only six of us, and only four of which are town. But since you demand I pick one, shotty...

- Out of the two L-1 wagons, if by nothing else than the way he's responding and trying so hard to be helpful, I'd say the scum wagon is more likely to be shotty than hiraki, which is why my vote stands.

[chkflip]

- Just because I've got lateral still on the brain doesn't mean I have no confidence in the case against shotty. I don't see how you deduced that otherwise.

- Why would scum vote their partner in Lover's Mafia for distancing? They're dead if their partner is lynched. It might be more pertinent to look at who

isn't

voting who when it comes to that. That's my take, at least. Thoughts?

[chkflip]

@Lateralus:
- First, I was out of town for Thanksgiving. To be honest, I hadn't scrolled up to see you say some things about me, as I've been feeling worse and worse since I got back into town. I will happily respond to all of the things brought up as soon as some food stays down. Apologies.

[chkflip]

@Lateralus:
- I was never upset, I just use aggressive wordplay to help my scumhunting. I know it makes me look scummy, but I've found that people (who are scum) tend to try to out my obviously falsified tells.

- It helps my read because it looks as if you're trying to spin it any way you possibly can.

- It didn't take long for me to gather my opinion that you're scum, but basing it off a jump from an RVS vote would have been silly of me.

- Questioning is not scummy by any means. I was merely questioning your use of votes/questions in relation to one another.

- I did not miss your post, I was simply asking if there was anything more than that. Which, obviously, there wasn't.
-- All you said was he's floating (which isn't hard to do on p1 of d1), he didn't vote, and lack of investigating. None of which are scumtells on p1 of d1 in my book. Later on, however, and now you've got yourself a case I can agree with.

- I thought, and still think, it's pretty obvious why it could be scum-driven. I don't spoonfeed.

- Why should I elaborate on town-reads? You feel your way and I feel mine. Done.

- You bringing town-reads up is the only reason that question even crossed my mind.

- I didn't say he was more helpful, I said he was

trying

to be. In other words, he wasn't. He's actually quite the opposite and for that I thought he was scummier than Hiraki. My thoughts have since changed.

- What contradiction? You've still yet to vote shotty, who could still very well be your partner. I don't get what you're getting at with that.

- I think Hiraki is entitled to his opinion, as do anyone else who are getting "bad vibes" from my posts. No questions have been asked of me, so I cannot further elaborate as I don't know why he (or anyone for that matter) has these vibes, short of my aggresive style.

@shotty/hiraki:
- I'm with DP on this one. I'm completely lost on several parts of the argument.

@DP:
- Why a chk lynch? You've expressed your distaste for me but never elaborated, especially not to the point of wanting a lynch. Could you please elaborate on this?

@all:
- With two weeks left, there's still a great amount of time before the hammer should fall. Let's try to get some better reads before making any hasty decisions.

- I'm feeling a bit better, but still not 100%, so that's where my confusion may lie (shotty/hiraki convo). I'll give my view of reads on everyone in my next post, I just thought I'd get any questions toward me out of the way first.

[chkflip]

Not me. I was willing to hammer, actually. Was building a case, am at page 3, but I've got to go to uni soon.

[chkflip]

- Well, initially, I was going to do a synopsis on everyone's play thus far, but something stuck out to me. Something that made everything go 'click'.

@Lateralus: When chkflip posts his big post, I'll get to mine. Sound fair?

- Seemingly harmless, yes? Of course. But why, oh why, would he be stalling in wait for my post? Is it because he thinks it will change his mind? That's an obvious 'no' by the way he's talking afterward. What does that leave? Scum biding time.

You're voting me when I haven't been able to explain myself. This isn't nice.

- The beginning of the derailing of his towny facade. He didn't seem to give two spits about Later voting me off the bat, but when it's him? Oh now it's a problem. Sure, it could be simply because he's self-centered, but methinks this is the first scumslip of many.

He's switching sides a little. Of course this is only one post, and I would've liked to not elaborate on this, to be quite honest.

- Ooh, and he was going to allow me to "dig my own grave" (paraphrasing) and allow some flaw he thought he saw build up into a grand ol' mislynch case. And this is him pouting about it.

Especially since two people haven’t confirmed yet.

- Him trying ever so hard to make up for his flaws by saying something "townie".

- Often forgetful, having missed posts, overlooked players, the whole lot. He even jokes about how one of his excuses is a scumtell, further trying to pull the wool over our eyes.

Honestly. This is a horrible case on me.

- I still don't think the aforementioned case was

horrible

, but insulting DP wasn't enough. Then tries to blast me for agreeing with David.

First off, he's looking at who's watching the thread, which isn't really a huge scum tell, but it's still one.

Because no one should ever put in their case that someone is watching the thread but not posting.

- Huge contradiction, much?

- This is about where my hammer vote was going to go, which, at the time, would've only been the third vote on Hiraki. I am still fully willing to do so.

- Personally, I see a decent case for hiraki/lateral scumteam.

@emp:
- Still think I was lying?

[chkflip]

EBWODP

! I hate Works Word Processor... stupid unique quotes messing up my post. Rah.

- Well, initially, I was going to do a synopsis on everyone's play thus far, but something stuck out to me. Something that made everything go 'click'.

@Lateralus: When chkflip posts his big post, I'll get to mine. Sound fair?

- Seemingly harmless, yes? Of course. But why, oh why, would he be stalling in wait for my post? Is it because he thinks it will change his mind? That's an obvious 'no' by the way he's talking afterward. What does that leave? Scum biding time.

You're voting me when I haven't been able to explain myself. This isn't nice.

- The beginning of the derailing of his towny facade. He didn't seem to give two spits about Later voting me off the bat, but when it's him? Oh now it's a problem. Sure, it could be simply because he's self-centered, but methinks this is the first scumslip of many.

He's switching sides a little. Of course this is only one post, and I would've liked to not elaborate on this, to be quite honest.

- Ooh, and he was going to allow me to "dig my own grave" (paraphrasing) and allow some flaw he thought he saw build up into a grand ol' mislynch case. And this is him pouting about it.

Especially since two people haven’t confirmed yet.

- Him trying ever so hard to make up for his flaws by saying something "townie".

- Often forgetful, having missed posts, overlooked players, the whole lot. He even jokes about how one of his excuses is a scumtell, further trying to pull the wool over our eyes.

Honestly. This is a horrible case on me.

- I still don't think the aforementioned case was

horrible

, but insulting DP wasn't enough. Then tries to blast me for agreeing with David.

First off, he's looking at who's watching the thread, which isn't really a huge scum tell, but it's still one.

Because no one should ever put in their case that someone is watching the thread but not posting.

- Huge contradiction, much?

- This is about where my hammer vote was going to go, which, at the time, would've only been the third vote on Hiraki. I am still fully willing to do so.

- Personally, I see a decent case for hiraki/lateral scumteam.

@emp:
- Still think I was lying?

[chkflip]

- How is my willingness to trim the fat a scum slip? That's an assenine claim, at best. You are, however, right about one thing. I'm no math scholar. Only in Beginning Algebra over at uni, so you've got me there.

David Parker case

- I will say that, more often than not, the "town leader" ends up being the biggest scum of them all. And you hasn't stepped off that throne since you replaced EYes on P2.

- Nothing scummy about wanting to direct town into the right direction, but the way you did strikes me to be quite interesting. Let's break it down:
-- In his first post, he votes Hiraki. Not an overtly scummy choice at the time; however, given the circumstances, the flip does bring a new light to things. The reasons for the initial Hiraki vote were wishy-washyness, buddying, missing things, and then calls out the validity of an FoS. Then, here's the kicker, he talks about how it could come from town or scum. Given the thin reasoning, why vote Hiraki if one of your biggest points could go either way?

-- In his second post, he further elaborates on Shotty's play being against his town-meta, calling his cases forced and how Shotty was speaking cautiously... yet tries to continue to justify that the weaker aforementioned reasons on Hiraki were better reasons for a lynch. Mentioning that he'd be willing to hammer Shotty could be town, but it could also be a warning to his scumbuddy (in an undertone) that he'd better start fixing his play or they'll lose.

-- Fourth post in, this is where the "Town Leader" in him comes out most. He gives his thoughts on the two L-1 wagons and begins to prophecize about them. He goes so far as to say it's obvious Hiraki and Shotty aren't scumbuddies, which, okay. I can see that since they were both on the other's wagon. What stuck out to me was this:

So if shotty is scum then either Later or myself would probably be his partner.

-- He just openly admits, under the guise of trying to lead town, that he's Shotty's partner, whilst also shoving Later's name in there so it isn't a completely red flag to all of us. Calling yourself out can be town, but I find it to be a scumtell here because of the way DP/Shotty have been acting toward one another. Compounded by the end of day shenanigans and I think I've found the scumteam. Keyword, unfortunately, is think. Shotty could very well be town... but the chances for DP seems to be thinning with every passing post.

-- Shoving "I know I'm town" down people's throats isn't the most pro-town thing to do, either. You can make your cases without having to point out the fact that you're eliminating yourself from the equation. Bringing it up like this just seems like it's yet another attempt to stay atop the Town as it's unnamed leader.

-- By the end of the fourth post, he then openly admits that he doesn't think either wagon is scummy. Throwing the word "maybe" in there haphazardly like he did just continues to try to show the fact that "HEY GUIEZ, IZ TOWNIE I SWEARS" over, and over, and over again.

-- Later, he pulls out the 50% stops with his prophecies of a Hiraki/chk/emp and Lateralus/chk/emp teams... which is okay for him to believe... if he hadn't pushed the fact that he said:

I know I'm town, so if shotty is scum his buddy would have to be Later, and I don't really feel the earlier case on Later was that strong, nor do I find him scum at this point.

-- Why the huge swing in thought over the span of eight posts? Not even a new page before he starts to question his own beliefs. And the only post that could've remotely changed that was a pro-town post made by Lateralus. Just doesn't add up to me.

-- His reasons for changing his vote to Lateralus seem to fit the description of pro-town trying to find greater scum, though there is one reason I found quite fishy that he's now even used AGAIN even after Lateralus blatantly showed him proof of himself. Lateralus ignoring Shotty. It was proven to be incorrect, yet and still he tries to use it as a strong bullet-point against Lateralus in an attempt to thwart us in this lylo situation we're in right now.

-- My personal favorite is when he again calls himself out in an effort to stay on the pro-town side of things:

I feel as if emp and I have gone completely unnoticed for the most part of this game; While I don't particularly mine being in that position, it is making it harder to read people, since both scum and town are ignoring me ;/

-- Then why hasn't there been more questions shot empking's way? Why hasn't DP looked at empking for more than a glance this whole game? Another likely scumpair here, that's why. THEN:

You seem to be avoiding emp more than anyone. You set on a town read on him?

-- Brings him up again as if he's trying to prove that emp is on HIS mind and NOT everyone else's.

-- Then, the biggest tell of them all, is how he flips back to his original vote on Hiraki without a single word. What set him off? Shotty's post calling him out as scum. There's no exchange, no debate, just the abrupt end of D1 with a townie mislynch. All because of a statement he'd later say was pro-town? No. Just... just no.

VOTE: DavidParker

[chkflip]

VOTE: Lateralus

[chkflip]

In reference to Lateralus' question, I kinda

had

to build a fake case against David because I felt that if I'd just ushered into that mislynch with him, like you said yourself, it would've come off as scummy. And given the nature of everyone's fenced opinions of my iffy playstyle (I always play this way, scum or town) I had to come up with a facade so people wouldn't see COMPLETELY through me. Glad it worked.

Also, I agree with Lateralus on the VOTENAO GOGOGO on D2 of a game like this. Shot yourself in the foot, DP. =)

Granted, however, that it wouldn't have been a bad play

if

Lateral was actually scum. But... yeah.

We didn't really talk much at all, but if you're interested in the QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/45/H/MwkGXDBNWFe

p.s. I'm keeping that quote about me, Lateral, and putting it in my wiki. The one about you crying yourself to sleep. I LOL'd ridiculously when I read that. =D

[chkflip]

OHSHI- EBWODP!~

Great modding, Kirijo. Loved this game. <3

[chkflip]

Wait, what? Elaborate.

[chkflip]

Note: chk, this has nothing to do with your playstyle. Posting legit content, not doing so isn't a play style unless your a vi.

[chkflip]

Wait, so was I

good

or

bad

as scum? >.<

[chkflip]

Sorry, I'd just like to know because this is only my second attempt at being scum.