Open 267- Lovers Mafia- Game Over

[Hiraki]

/confirm

[Hiraki]

This is odd.

Preview Edit: Congrats, this thread does puzzle me.

While chkflip does seem odd, Lateralus decided to find his first post as an odd post, as in scummy.

Of course, if I was thinking correctly, chkflip shouldn't really care, which is a meh. He kind of does seem like he cares, but sometimes he doesn't.

Of course, I'm using logic now, so I basically just contradicted myself. Let's just get to questions now.

1.

What's your general feels for lurkers, do they more often than not turn out to be scum in your experience?

2.

Will you be trying to encourage active posting or was that lurker bit just "RVS"?

1. Lurkers aren't usually scum, most of the time, but when they are scum, not only do I rage, I get annoyed at such cheap wins.

2. I'd like to investigate this. It's not like I'd want to lynch someone off of the idea that they lied about someone lurking in a different game, but it'd be helpful, to say the least.

Preview Edit 2:

FFS It's Day 1 of Day 1. It's impossible for me to lurk. Well, plausible.

...

You get the point.

[Hiraki]

Vote: Later

- Calm down.

Agreed.

You're voting me when I haven't been able to explain myself. This isn't nice.

And? I care not for useless observations, tell me what you've learned form this.

Considering you've found my first post scummy, at this point, it seems like you're a pretty jumpy dude. The whole thing about noticing me "lurking" helps my observations quite a bit.

Elaborate

He's switching sides a little. Of course this is only one post, and I would've liked to not elaborate on this, to be quite honest.

Why aren't you investigating this instead of silently saying that? Why do you think he's lying about this?

And if I did or he did? I made this post for a point.

Not liking, but not willing to place anything down at the moment. I need more talk talk. Especially since two people haven't confirmed yet.

[Hiraki]

@Hiraki:
- No, I'm giving my honest opinion about lurkers whilst also taking into consideration that it was RVS. How can it not be both?

I actually think I totally missed your responses to me, sorry about that!

The first point you make about the "sometimes, sometimes not" was more of a feeling. I blame 3 posts and the first being RVS screwing around for that. It's nothing bad, just something I felt like pointing out.

I was talking more about the vote, rather than his questions. Of course he'd then flip his vote to me, making me

@Lateralus:

True, but I doubt chkflip would've noticed if you didn't say anything about it. I just found it a bit odd you needed to comment about the point that you could see me. It doesn't surprise me now, just to note.

Jumpy can be scummy, and it could be just over-defensive townie. Not sure which one would be correctly labeled. Perhaps I'll need a new label though. I think you remind me of myself in a different meta, per se. You want to post the most content as you can, even if it is small stuff to get your point in. While this is null in terms of factions, I found it quite reminiscent of how I used to work around. Just a little tidbit of information. I'll have to keep looking around to see what I really think about it.

[Hiraki]

Why is being jumpy scummy?

Because jumpy means you're worried about getting lynched. A townie shouldn't, in theory, be worried about being lynched. Their death leads to a greater gain of the town, if used correctly. Call it a common trend, but I'm pretty sure it's more than that.

Great, now do you actually want to start hunting for scum? My qualms with you is that it doesn't look like your scum hunting at all. A few fence sitting posts here and there, but that's it. What you've posted, you're showing a lack of desire to back up what you say. In your last post you're being very vague mentioning your own meta, what does this have anything to do with my alignment?

We're on Page 1 of Day 1. Day 1 of Day 1. Please don't pester me about scum hunting. I'm sorry I'm not as avid as you. I like to use different methods of finding scum rather than your methods.

Btw. does it look like Empking or chkflip are scum hunting a lot?

Hiraki, are you only uncomfortable voting because two people haven't confirmed? No one's in danger of being lynched at all.

I'm quite aware of that, however, I don't like flip-flopping my vote. In fact, I find a bit anti-town at the best. A Vanilla Townie's best power is the power of a vote. If a VT doesn't use it correctly, or just uses it unwillingly to apply pressure then something isn't right there.

Now just to dispel any misinterpretations, I don't FoS Lateralus22

fully

. However, I'm suspecting him. I don't like his post style and his attacks toward me. Not that he's attacking me, I'm fine with that. It's what he's attacking with.

[Hiraki]

Really, this is what you're saying in regards to me? When I was called "jumpy" it was because I was posting a lot and questioning, I wasn't even accused of being scum.

True, but you even noted that I was there. It's a small point, but a point at the least.

Second point. Mhmk, kinda valid, but still stands. Can you tell me more about your methods?

Townhunting. For the win.

chkflip looks town for now. He seemed like he had an honest intention with his vote and was able to explain it. Empking, eh not so much. He does need to post more, I'm going at you on this because it seems you're actually in the game.

And this is why I with-hold my vote, for reasons previously stated.

>.> Really? There's nothing wrong with applying pressure and if you're voting for legit reasons... then there wouldn't be a problem either. Frankly, I think you'd be doing more harm if you choose to hold back your vote that much.

There isn't but I don't like doing it. I don't vote people for it, and I don't care if other people do it. I just don't do it, and I doubt it does that much harm if I hold it back. My questioning seems to be a better asset then just asking.

If you want to vote me just say it. No need to be shy. My posting style is how I post every game. I find abrasiveness to be far more effective, and my attack on you? I'm literally asking you to get your opinions out and vote for who you think is scum. Instead, you've chosen to attack my play style and appear to be on the fence about multiple things.

I haven't attacked your play style, I just don't like it. I got my opinions out, like you asked. This point just seems like you're not satisfied with my opinions, and you think I'm sure that I'm scum.

Hey, very fast question. You mention your past play style, can you tell me in a large amount of detail why it's changed? Do you view aggression as scummy?

Aggression isn't scummy, but it doesn't always work. Some people do think it's scummy, some don't. In some ways, there's truth that it is, and there's also counter-arguments that it isn't. The reason that no one has a firm stance on it, is why I've changed. More for the sake of playing a game without asking about it. Just make sure that aggressive styles have logic behind them. Ad hominem attacks are never good.

@ chick- I am inclined to vote you due to your active lurking,

I laugh that you think it's honestly possible to lurk on Day 2 of Day 1.

- From the start, even with your RVS vote, you've been "lynchlynchlynch gogogogo." Is there a reason you want to see day phases rushed?

This is basically what I mean, in better phrase at least.

Also, if someone hammers before Erinyes or even Empking makes a good post, I will be quite sad.

[Hiraki]

Hik; I presume you're implying that Shotty had made better posts than me in this game. How is that?

Nah, I forgot about him. I'd like something bigger than 3 lines from him too. My mistake.

[Hiraki]

Done a quick browse, game got started pretty quick which I like. Shotty is actually semi-contributing to this game? That seems to go against his meta.. And seeing as I've only ever seen him play town and be useless...Hmm.

Not only is this a meta-tell, but Shotty isn't really contributing to the game.

His "first" post - Very wish-washy, doesn't really comment on much, just "observes" and doesn't take a stance.

My first post was clarifying some points on both sides. If you honestly wanted to make me take a side in the first few posts when only some rapid stances took place, that at the moment made both sides look flustered and confused and at least in my thoughts was a point where Lateralus was looking for reactions, then I sigh at you.

Buddies to emp.

Is this a joke? Do you honestly think that Lateralus wasn't on the trail of this game for 24/7? FFS, Lateralus even agrees that he's bit a bit overactive in post #26. On Page 1, he made a triple post, and two double posts. If I'm really buddying to emp, then I should be doing a damn well good job of it. Emp hasn't given out any of his views, just voted Lateralus for posting a lot, so I assume.

Plays the "I missed that post" card (A statement I have used myself as scum on numerous occasions when being caught out...)

What? WHAT? I honestly flipped out at this point. If I'm now scum for missing a post when another person, who I was having a reasonable argument with, posted after and I paid more attention to that post, rather the other post, then I quit mafia. Not to mention, I did later respond to that post, and admit to it. This is the worst scumtell I have ever seen. No jokes.

#28: More wish-washy. "Jumpy can be scummy, and it could be just over-defensive townie"

You do realize that lurking could be scum and town right? Let's move on. I'm sorry that my game theory can have multiple ends, and therefore is now considered wishy-washy.

Honestly. This is a

horrible

case on me. This is basically why I think Lateralus is town. He has townie reasons why I may be scum, and he's been scumhunting. If he's scum, he'll be left alone today.

Ah, these are valid points. He's played the "I missed that" twice now, don't know if you just meant toward my question or when he overlooked shotty.

Valid points? What are you smoking.

I'm backtracking now. I had a big post, but I deleted the first post by accident(lol scumtell).

Saying that is an attack though. You're right, you did get out some of your opinions but the thing is I'm not even sure if you believe them when it doesn't look like your backing them up much.

Disliking your style of play is not an attack. Telling you that your play sucks, and is scummy, is an attack.

- Could you please elaborate on "Townhunting. For the win."?

Um...not really. I like Townhunting rather than Scumhunting. For the win is just showing my liking of it more.

Right that settles everything I believe, so let me get onto the first part of the old post.

I've made this post multiple times, excluding the DavidParker part which I saw only today. However, I made it on my iPod, which means I depended on Wifi. Wifi always fails. =/

Moving on, let's start this with a bang.

VOTE: Drmyshottyizsick

I've re-examined his post, and made the conclusion that out of everyone here, he is the most probable person to be scum.

Let's analyze this shall we?

/confirm

vote later

Chill this is just a game

First off, we have Drmyshotty voting Later. I don't see why this vote should stand, at this point. Later has decreased his posts tenfold, and really only had a reasonable argument with me. Therefore, this seems like a total BW of Empking, who said basically the same thing.

@ chick- I am inclined to vote you due to your active lurking,

Here's the big part why this isn't good.

First off, he's looking at who's watching the thread, which isn't really a huge scum tell, but it's still one.

Second off, he doesn't even seem to be remotely caring about his Lateralus vote. Instead, Chkflip seems like a better target for Active Lurking within the first week of the game.

Something really doesn't seem good here. At all. So, therefore, you're scum.

[Hiraki]

not really a case, but a bunch of IIoA

Ludicrous.

Why is this a scum tell?

Because no one should ever put in their case that someone is watching the thread but not posting. It's a Null Tell, and putting it in a case is scummy to me. Not to mention, the only proof of this is a Screen Capture, and it's not really appropriate for mafia.

Why would

David

posting a case against you make you think

I'm

town? Didn't you say so initially you were suspicious of me because you didn't like my reasons for attacking you?

I was unsure if you were totally town before the post I had made with FoSing you fully. Upon more investigation, I found that your "jumpiness" was more Town-Sided then Scum-Sided. David's case is just blarg overall, and makes me meh.

The last bit sounds weird. Is this implying I'm going to get attacked if I'm town since that wouldn't happen if I was scum?

Not sure what you mean here.

[Hiraki]

Just to note, I'm on my iPod, so if I make any big mistakes, I'll correct them later.

I don't want to make a huge post/response to Shotty. From my skim, his counter-argument looked bad, so y'know.

1) Voting someone to calm down is in no way an RVS vote. Don't dare try to justify it.

2) Some of those responses completely missed the point of my post.

3) What do you consider to be active lurking, and how does one detect it.

4) Hammer and I will kill you at night. Sex.

[Hiraki]

Starts with IIoA, and then tells us pointsless shit that does nothing but create fluff.

The point of calling my "shit" fluff is...? Also, this is the third time you've said IIoA. Just to note.

IIoA/Sheeping/Obvious, and very unneeded fluff.

Perhaps I should start ignoring Lateralus, and y'know, stop making sense. I mean, questions usually need answers. This is just borderline asshole-ish.

So you plan on doing something "pro-town" the whole game, but not give us any indication of how or why you are doing it? Well... REALLY?!

That wasn't his question. His question was to elaborate on Townhunting. I found no reason why I should give out my tactics. Btw, you've done a lot in scumhunting, amirite.

We don't need to lynch town, we need to lynch scum. There are less scum to hunt for so it is easier, and way more pro-town. You sir are FTF

We're not lynching town? Oh, I guess these are one of those normal games where everything is assumed. There is no difference between townhunting and scumhunting except that scumhunting looks for scum tells, and town hunting looks for town tells, you can townhunt while scumhunting. I don't see why Townhunting is so scummy to you, it's really odd.

IIoA

FFS. You don't need to comment on random things if they're all IIoA, according to you. You make it sound like my post has 0% content.

FLUFF!

Right, we're back on the same page.

How can you say this if you've been town hunting??? So you have both scum pinned already? GO YOU![/sarcasm]

How the fuck did you conclude this? Honestly, I can take a reasonable hit, but there is absolutely no way that from that post that you could make that much of a pun against me. I believe, out of everyone here, that you're the most probable person to be scum.

That was my RVS vote! It's scummy to hold it against me!

I've covered this already, but just putting this here to realize that he calls it RVS twice. Did you not read the out of RVS discussion on Page 1 between Lateralus, Chkflip, and myself?

Um,,, ya no this is not true at all, you just either misrepped me or misunderstood what Active Lurking is.

Answer this. I am actually completely confused on what you find Active Lurking to be, and how you detect it.

You're right I'm not trying to push my RVS vote to a quick lynch! How

scum

town of me!

Again, I really can't see how you consider that to be an RVS vote. Methinks you're lying now.

How off your rocker are you?!?! Do I even need to pont out why this is scummy??? I am scum, because it doesn't feel right to you?!?!?!

No, that's just a conclusion statement. Obviously if that was my entire case on you, then yes. Then that would be quite scummy. However, I do seem to have a case on you above.

chk, I'm not saying that his IIoA is scummy, but I am saying that all of the other things i pointed out is scummy, your vote makes no sense unless you mis understood me

chk, I'm not saying that his IIoA is scummy, but I am saying that all of the other things i pointed out is scummy, your vote makes no sense unless you mis understood me

All the other things that you pointed out were mistakes in my case against you. There's nothing scummy about me in your case, to be quite honest. You did call IIoA Null, so I don't know how I'm now scummy to you.

Pssst. Guess what methinks.

Let's pause on Shotty for a moment. I found something quite queer at this point.

However, I still find

hiraki as probable scum although depending how day goes i'd be willing to hammer shotty later.

Does anyone else feel neither wagon is on scum?

What doesn't I make sense.

I mean, I don't really find DP that scummy, but. What is this. Not making much sense to me. Shotty still gets vote number one.

Oh great, you get to bash his credibility without responding to his post. Nice.

That was a mistake on my part for not proofreading because I was on my iPod. What I meant to say was that I don't want to make a large post on Shotty now. His counter-argument looked pretty poor from my skim. I still stand by that too.

Way to side step away from I was saying. How does me being jumpy have anything to do with my reasons? And what "investigation" did you undertake or was just the flick of your mind?

Both, I like reading the thread multiple times before posting something, and then revising. This is one of those moments.

How did the reasons you not like suddenly became townie reasons to attack you?

Because DP's questions are horrible. For example, his attack on me for buddying with Empking. I mean, what the hell. You could say I was buddying with the air at that point. Your questions, on the other hand, are legitimate. The reasons that DP attacked me with were not the reasons that you attacked me with.

Can you tell me in great detail what you think of chkflip so far and who you think is scum if shotty turns up town? How do you feel about Empking?

I will be reasonably surprised if shotty turns up town. In fact, at that point I will be stupefied. However, I'd have to say chkflip. I've gotten bad vibes from him so far, and I've been wanting to review his case because of arguments you had with him. I'll be honest and say I haven't really read those in depth. From DP's logic, both Empking and chkflip would have to be scum FMPOV, but from an un-informed stance at this point, I'd have to take a random shot at chkflip.

#62 (Hiraki):

I was unsure if you were totally town before the post I had made with

FoSing you fully.

I can't believe I missed this. This shows an inconsistency in his thought pattern because he never FoS'ed me fully and was on the fence about this for most of the time, he even said it was the opposite of this.

Or am I wrong and you're saying this is a typo?

It was a typo. However, the typo isn't what you're supposed to be focusing on. I believe you understand what I meant, the specifics weren't as important to me, as it seems.

I think I got everything there.

[Hiraki]

Hiraki Active lurking IS posting fluff in your posts and lurking threw your posts, that's how you ditect it! And you do it like hell!!!

We'll get to this later at the end.

-My first vote had no reason and was on page 2, it was RVS

Calm down isn't a reason? Hmmzorz.

- You calling me scum there is a huge omgus

Of course. My reasoning should be ignored.

- And no you have no case on me above all you said was,
1. I said IIoA three times(Ironicly more IIoA)

Which you did, and all of them were ludicrous. Just because I say something that seems irrelevant to you, doesn't mean that it's scummy. Not to mention, you said yourself that IIoA is null, so what's the point of emphasizing it so much?

2. You don't share your tactics(Anti-Town)

I did. I like Town Hunting. I look for who's townie, and then I go on from there. FFS, I said Lateralus was townie for his scum hunting, even if I didn't like how he did it.

3. You think it's ok to lynch town

Um. No, I don't.

4. I'm odd, for finding an anti-town thing anti-town

Explain.

5. You assume I didn't RVS vote due to something someone else said.

Something someone else said? No, you said calm down. I believe I'm quite sure of that.

6. You OMGUS'd me

Obv.

7. Sounded dumb

Thank you for the insult.

8. And you called me a lier

I did. I can't believe anyone saying that telling someone to "calm down" is an RVS vote. Sorry that's not in your favor.

^^Now if that's a case then... well no it's just not a case at all, it's a huge OMGUS to try to save your own ass.

If you're not going to respect my views and just call them all garbage with no reasoning, then you're just being an asshole at this rate.

That's not the point. You disliked my reasons and they made you suspicious of me. David asking ones is completely independent of that and doesn't change my questions/whatever.

If they were legitimate how did they make you suspicious/not like what I was attacking you with? When you specifically said you didn't mind the act of attacking you?

1) No, I disliked your mode of questioning. DP on the other hand just has horrible attacks.

2) Same as above.

I can see why certain you ones you don't like, but some of his reasons were similar to mine.

...Not really.

His reasons against me were silly, and your reasons against me were valid. I don't see how you could make a correlation between his reasons and yours, tbqh.

That "Typo" changes the whole entire meaning of what you're saying and the previous thought process behind it. How were specifics not important when earlier you were so cautious as to say you didn't give me a full FoS? What exactly would be the "right" way to say what you were thinking?

No it doesn't. I've only mentioned FoS one time in the game, that's what the point of putting that there was. I didn't put it there to discuss it more, I've discussed all I need to discuss about it. However, it seems that you want to know more, and therefore, being the kind and generous Hiraki, I shall give more.

When I said "not fully FoS", perhaps I should've just said IGMEOY. However, that's not the point. The point is, is that I was somewhat suspicious of you, at that moment, but thought about it more. Out of everyone playing the game, you and Chkflip, at that moment had to be deemed the most town, because of your activeness(null) and scumhunting(town). Does that help?

When did you start getting bad vibes from chkflip, and which reasons do you specifically have that made you wary of him? Would he be your second lynch pick?

I think it was when I fully read post #51. While it doesn't tell much, it did show that there was a greater argument between you and Chkflip that I had originally seen. Again, I'd like to assess the argument a bit more before making a conclusion on who may or may not be scum.

My second candidate for scum has to be DP. If there's scum on Shotty's wagon, however, I believe it to be Empking. However, I don't see why he wouldn't do more to change his mind or something. So he's cool for now.

Preview Edit. I'd just like to bring something up to everyone's attention, that I found during my read-through.

active lurking is lurking within your posts, not watching the thread and not posting.

Active lurking IS posting fluff in your posts and lurking threw your posts, that's how you ditect it! And you do it like hell!!!

First off, I'd like everyone to compare and contrast these two statements.

And I'd like to comment on them further as well.

First off, I'd like to say that you have never called me out on Active Lurking, and the only way you do call me out on it is by IIoA. That's only one of the things that you say make up Active Lurking. Doesn't really fit well.

Second off, the only person you have said that was Actively Lurking was Chkflip. However, you said this on Page 2. By your definition of Active Lurking, Chkflip has posted fluff in his posts, has not been reading the thread, and has not posted. Either that, or a combination of those things.

That's total bullshit.

Third off, your first and second definition of Active Lurking do not match up at all.

Fourth, why aren't you able to vote Empking for Active Lurking? Out of everyone here, he's the one who has done it the most no?

Fifth, do you believe that you wouldn't be under the conditions of Actively Lurking yourself?

I have concluded that there are

way

too many inconsistencies between Shotty's definitions, and the players who are actually Actively Lurking, between Shotty's two definitions. Take it as you wish. This guy is scummy.

[Hiraki]

This needs to be more organized. The numbers correlate to where you add your red text.

1. You voted him. If you vote a person, and tell the same person to calm down, I'm 100% sure that telling the person to calm down has something to do with the vote. If you honestly believe that it is an RVS Vote, you honestly can't see how odd it seems that you're voting Lateralus at the same time.

In contrast, if you voted me, and told Lateralus to calm down, I wouldn't be caring about this.

2. Ignoring something doesn't mean it'll go away.

3. No one ever talked about IIoA before you brought it up. You bring it up in almost every one of your posts now, if not all of them, and from my perspective, it's no longer null, but scummy. I don't have enough time to go fully into this, but I'll do it later. Just don't respond to this at the moment.

4. Scum can scumhunt, but I'm usually pretty sure that Town-Aligned People scumhunt much more than Scum-Aligned People. Would you agree or disagree with this?

Also, I honestly don't care what you think about Town Hunting.

5. Let's not play this stupid sarcasm game please.

6. Quote me. I'm 100% sure this is either a misinterpretation, or I never said this.

7. You're not making much sense of this. At all.

8. I promise it's not. See what I did there?

9. Yeah, this isn't really funny actually. I'm getting annoyed, to be quite honest.

10. It

really

doesn't look like that. Not to mention, what's wrong with Lateralus' "jumpiness"?

Scroll Down Etc.

1. Are you joking?

Let's compare.

The first one says that Active Lurking is lurking within your post, reading the thread, and not posting.

The second one says that Active Lurking is posting fluff in your post, and lurking through your posts.

Do I need to explain the extreme differences between these definitions?

2. This is how I operate. You don't need to comment on them. You can just delete it out of the quote. I promise, it doesn't hurt.

3. I am reading the thread, first of all. Second of all, you called me out on IIoA. Last time I checked, IIoA doesn't equal Active Lurking. Active Lurking, according to you, is applicable to lynching someone, IIoA is null. Am I getting something incorrect here?

4. How was he actively lurking. You have avoided the question completely and gotten into a hissy fit.

5. Well, that's what happens when you're wrong.

6. Ahh, see this where I explain the extreme differences.

Your first definition speaks nothing of anyone posting. In fact, your first definition says that the person only reads the thread and

does not

post. In your second definition, it's more about how the person posts, and the content in their posts. It speaks

nothing

about the frequency of their voting patterns, or such. There is a huge inconsistency.

7. That's not the question I'm asking. I'm asking if you could vouch for Empking for Active Lurking or not.

8. Of course, my reasoning at this point is invalid. In fact, I had reasoning?

9. No, there is no

feeling

here. This is hardcore logic. I am quite aware that you're completely wrong about Active Lurking, first off, and that your opinions about me are horrible. I have explained them, now stop getting pissed and answer to them, and I will answer back. Y'know. Like a debate.

@Lateralus and DP: Do you believe my case has some, or any validity? Why, or why not?

[Hiraki]

Shotty.

Stop avoiding the question and just answer it.

When I want you to explain a question, "ok" isn't a suitable answer for me.

Also, what other case can you make in a game of Lover's Mafia?(Rather than a case based on words)

2. I said "you" not me. At this rate, your second definition of Active Lurking matches up easily with it. Therefore, while IIoA isn't scummy, Active Lurking 2, aka IIoA in disguise, is.

7. Same as six

8. That's the point.

9. No because this is supposedly your meta. I will however ask you to stop.

10. Explain. I have no clue what you're saying.

There's no double negative.

Everything after that got me thinking borderline trollish. I mean, I really have nothing to comment on anymore.

[Hiraki]

If Shotty is Lateralus' buddy, then why the hell are you voting Lateralus, instead of Shotty? Being Lovers, they die together anyway, no?

[Hiraki]

active lurking is lurking within your posts,

not

watching the thread and

not

posting.

^^This gramaticly says activee lurking IS lurking with in your posts, NOT, watching the thread while not posting.

This isn't the point.

Your first definition of Active Lurking says that the person is not posting, not watching the thread, and lurking within your posts. I believe lurking within your posts refers to posting fluff.

Your second definition of Active Lurking talks about posting fluff in your post, and lurking through your posts.

The big difference is that Person A, who is Active Lurking, according to definition one, is someone that's not even looking at the thread, and posts just to avoid prods. Person B, who is Actively Lurking according to definition two, is someone that is like me, according to you. There is no way in hell that my posting style in this game can be compared to your first definition of Active Lurking.

To move on, and basically repeat myself, I am quite aware that Shotty has said that IIoA is null to him. However, I want you to compare the second definition of Actively Lurking, and IIoA. From my standpoint, they're not too far and in between.

Respond to my other points, pretty please?

- I'm with DP on this one. I'm completely lost on several parts of the argument.

Which parts, and why are you voting Shotty if you're confused.

- I'm feeling a bit better, but still not 100%, so that's where my confusion may lie (shotty/hiraki convo). I'll give my view of reads on everyone in my next post, I just thought I'd get any questions toward me out of the way first.

Awaiting this post enviously.

I iz confused.

In terms of how you are attacking, rather than the questions.

Hiraki is really good at confusing me.

Seeing that DP hasn't said much about Empking, this would leave Shotty/Lateralus scum team one of his most favorable propositions. Perhaps I'm incorrect, but in Lover's Mafia(this is my first Lover's Game, so sorry if I'm incorrect), if one scum dies, doesn't the other one die that night? I don't see why DP would have any problem hammering on Shotty, seeing that the Lateralus doesn't have high expectations with everyone else. However, I do take that back, since DP could've had a favorable case. At that point, I just skimmed through it, being on my iPod.

Hiraki what do you think of David's case?

Yuck.

This brings me to a new point. DP has been

really

flip-floppy lately. Am I the only one who has noted this a little?

I prefer not to engage in back and forth argument vs response vs response vs response because it tends to be more counter-productive to town than anything. I knew beforehand what the "shortcomings" of my case on you were and what you would respond with. It doesn't change the fact that I still believe you to be scum. But I'm glad you responded as that has helped my read on you.

Explain. I find that if a case makes sense when it's fully explained by its presenter, it makes better sense than before, in the sense that it may have some faults to its' meanings.

Also, how does responding help your read on him? In fact, if he's still scum, then how does it change your read at all?

If you lynch me today do you PROMISE to lynch either Hiraki or chkflip tomorrow?

Did you visit Chkflip's house lately for some of that stuff he was smoking?

That's all I believe I need to say.

[Hiraki]

You're not supposed to like it.

[Hiraki]

Would you be down with a chkflip lynch?

Not sure at the moment. I'm still 100% down for a Shotty lynch, if you wanted to know.

What I meant by that, was why you would ever make the notion of trusting the town with your reads. While I believe you are townie, I do not believe you have the correct reads, obv. Therefore, I'd think it to be pretty bad to put something like this forth on the table.

I'd like to get a better read on Chkflip, and DP. But at the moment, I doubt that'll change anyway. DP looks scummy, Chkflip looks sort-kinda-probably townie.

DP's reads changing over the basis of 3 posts is scummy, especially when it's for a crappy reason.

[Hiraki]

1. "RVS" Vote and Chkflip warning
2. Definitions of IIoA and Active Lurking
3. Question Avoidance and Insulting my Intelligence, and still not answering the question

@Lateralus: When chkflip posts his big post, I'll get to mine. Sound fair?

[Hiraki]

Not me. I was willing to hammer, actually. Was building a case, am at page 3, but I've got to go to uni soon.

Bull.

I'm kinda sad now that I've been voting Shotty along with the two scum

What?

Let me get this straight. You're voting me because DP has left my wagon, and I haven't given a

full

read on Chkflip, mostly because he hasn't posted his case/post yet. It's not like that will have an impact on what I think about him, amirite?

[Hiraki]

I hate Works Word Processor... stupid unique quotes messing up my post. Rah.

II---

- Well, initially, I was going to do a synopsis on everyone's play thus far, but something stuck out to me. Something that made everything go 'click'.

Bad you. There was a point of you waiting to do a synopsis of everyone's play. Compare and Contrast. I'm bawing.

- Seemingly harmless, yes? Of course. But why, oh why, would he be stalling in wait for my post? Is it because he thinks it will change his mind? That's an obvious 'no' by the way he's talking afterward. What does that leave? Scum biding time.

Or I did think it'll change my mind. Perhaps you wouldn't post it.

- The beginning of the derailing of his towny facade. He didn't seem to give two spits about Later voting me off the bat, but when it's him? Oh now it's a problem. Sure, it could be simply because he's self-centered, but methinks this is the first scumslip of many.

First off, this is one of my first posts. If I looked townie from my first post, which I can considerably was quite fency, then I don't know what to do here.

Second off, of course it's a problem when it's me. Am I supposed to randomly defend you after 2-3 posts? I wasn't sure of your alignment after a few posts, and I needed more. Therefore, I was more concerned about myself than you. I don't like to assume. Oh, and "of many" makes me laugh a little. If I've scum-slipped

this

much, then why were you agreeing with me two posts back? Nonetheless, let's move on and sees these "slips".

- Ooh, and he was going to allow me to "dig my own grave" (paraphrasing) and allow some flaw he thought he saw build up into a grand ol' mislynch case. And this is him pouting about it.

Because I totally suspected you right after it. I'm not totally sure what you mean after that. Could you explain?

- Him trying ever so hard to make up for his flaws by saying something "townie".

Or I could just be trying to be decent. If I honestly made this many flaws on the first page that are totally "scummy", then why does it take it until Page 6 for you to suspect me? Answer. These really aren't that scummy.

- Often forgetful, having missed posts, overlooked players, the whole lot. He even jokes about how one of his excuses is a scumtell, further trying to pull the wool over our eyes.

Or add a bit of sarcasm, either or.

- I still don't think the aforementioned case was

horrible

, but insulting DP wasn't enough. Then tries to blast me for agreeing with David.

I explained this in a post to Lateralus. To quote myself,

That was a mistake on my part for not proofreading because I was on my iPod. What I meant to say was that I don't want to make a large post on Shotty now. His counter-argument looked pretty poor from my skim. I still stand by that too.

There's honestly too many things wrong in that case to allow me to fathom how you believe it's not a horrible case.

First off, he's looking at who's watching the thread, which isn't really a huge scum tell, but it's still one.

Because no one should ever put in their case that someone is watching the thread but not posting.

- Huge contradiction, much?

No. The first quote is referring to Shotty, who is doing the action. The second is referring to someone else(In response to Shotty from another player? I'd need to check) where I state this. I don't really see the contradiction. This is mainly just taken out of context.

After that I'm not sure what to think. Let's go into my investigations anyway, because apparently not talking about Chkflip is scummy, which btw. is total bullshit because I've said barely anything about Empking. Thank you for pointing that out, DP.

Before this post, I had a town read on Chkflip. He seemed like a pretty normal dude, and nothing too highly suspicious or anything of the like.

The argument that I saw between Chkflip and Lateralus looked bigger than what it actually seems to be. Unfortunately, I don't have much to comment. There wasn't really an argument there that puts one toward an alignment.

- The fact that Shotty is so jumpy doesn't alarm me, as I've played a game with him before. It does strike me that he'd put himself on the plate like that, however, as if to push that he's so town that he'll sacrifice himself when that couldn't be further from helpful right now.

- I've got my eye on shotty for that very reason.

I haven't looked at many of Shotty's games, and I don't like using meta. But, I don't see how any of the two statements go to the same conclusion. It's not scummy, it's just odd that you'd agree with it.

- Out of the two L-1 wagons, if by nothing else than the way he's responding and trying so hard to be helpful, I'd say the scum wagon is more likely to shotty than hiraki

I hadn't noted this before, but I believe Chkflip just voted based on Meta. No?

...

- I'm with DP on this one. I'm completely lost on several parts of the argument.

This confirms that Chkflip is voting off of meta. If you don't understand something, why don't you ask questions about it? Ignoring something and making a vote on me just makes me go meh.

I'll need to re-assess this a few times. The reasoning that chkflip voted Shotty out of meta kind of makes me think twice about calling him town. However, that's the only thing I have against him. Everything else seems fine, from what I saw. While this may be our downfall, I'm going to label Chkflip as leaning toward town.

DP still isn't making much sense with his cases, and from both of his cases, he never seems to back them up after. That's why he's scum. Empking could be scum, but he'd be replaced by DP. Of course, Shotty is #1. The only reason I can't pin down their partner is because Empking hasn't posted a lot, and his last vote isn't making good sense to me.

[Hiraki]

Le soupir.

I'm awfully surprised that Shotty was town. Kudos to Chk, =| to Emp. I'd say more, but I'm on my iPod.