Mini #73: Prosaic Mafia (The End)

[Talitha]

Hi everyone. Just to confirm I've received my role. I'll try and read the thread and put a vote on by tomorrow.

[Talitha]

Well first off it's nice to see credit given where credit is due... Try for a triple-post next time massive, I dare ya

Of the main lynch contenders I'm tending towards voting for Pheobus... not because of the role claim, I find it somewhat believable, more because of the early defensiveness, and now he seems to be trying to vote to please others. Because he's already claimed though I'm not going to vote right now because some more info before we lynch would be good.

I'll

vote:tehgood

for now, for jumping on the back of the "i've got the same sort of role as you" brigade.

[Talitha]

Yes I agree that Phoebus's role is potentially more useful than bigben's... I just feel that he's more likely than ben to be evil. (I could be completely wrong though...) I'm worried that he could be an SK who is prepared to lie low and act like a vig. Although on re-reading the rules I see that evil killers can't choose not to kill..

If I set a night deadline, players whose choices I do not receive by then will be considered to have no choice, except for evil killers, whose choice will be determined at random among those whom they know to not be on their side.

So that makes me feel a little better about keeping him around - at least until tomorrow when we'll have information about killing patterns.
Hmmm... I'm not really getting scummy vibes from bigben.. I think I'll keep my vote on tehgood for now.

[Talitha]

I'm still on tehgood.... first he mentions how bigben's roleclaim sounds like his role, then he turns around and says that bigben is scummy.
Yes it's probably a self-preservation move, but it all just sounds a bit fishy to me.

[Talitha]

Hmmm... what is it.. 12 hours until deadline?
I'm not going to change my vote, but it looks like bigben is going to be the one lynched.

A small piece of mafia advice for bigben: If you are pro-town and you believe tehgood could be anti-town, smart play would be to put your vote on tehgood... no-one would hold it against you and it might give you a fighting chance...
If you are anti-town please ignore this advice

[Talitha]

Well that's interesting. The two people under the most pressure late yesterday now pointing the finger in my direction.

You're right. I did try to stay away from the bigben bandwagon. Why? Mainly because what he said about his role PM rang true. I know the mod did not want us to use that kind of information so I haven't mentioned it, but it's hard to ignore when it's there in black and white. To me, although he was voting and posting erratically (have you noticed how he posts around the rest of the forum??), he was one of my least suspicious people. and he was an easy target for the mafia because of it.

vote: tehgood

[Talitha]

Oh, hmmm, right.. Nice work massive!

Might be time to think about a role claim tehgood.

[Talitha]

Yours didn't ring true...

[Talitha]

Well, no deaths is good! Lynching another townie wasn't...

I must say I'm having trouble findind someone suspicious enough to vote for now...

I'd like to hear from gashlycrumb's replacement, mainly because the mod allowed a further 48 hour deadline after the replacement was announced, which makes me suspect they might have had a night choice to make....

[Talitha]

massive's criticism of me is true I guess. Yes I'm being lazy in this game right now. I've been quite sick lately and still am. The only game I have even vaguely worked in lately was a newbie game, and in that one I actually

was

scum.

I think massive is also right that we don't want a quick lynch today. I'd like to take some time to read over the thread when I'm feeling better.

Was Breakdown pro-town? I wasn't sure about that. If he was then yeah, we're not doing so good here.

And what do we think of Phoebus' vig claim now? (I know, lazy lazy). Well, I know what Yoko Kurama thinks but I'd like to hear more opinions.

I'm not sure what to think about Primoris... can we be sure that if Pheobus is scum then Primoris is too? Just seems a little dangerous to assume at this stage of the game.

[Talitha]

That sounds believable to me Yoko... But did your result say that Pheobus was mafia or just that he was anti-town or something?

I would vote for him right now, apart from the fact that we have to be extremely careful with our lynch... so I'll give it a little longer in case anyone else has some conflicting information, or Pheobus himself has anything to say in his defence.

FOS: Pheobus

[Talitha]

I tend to agree with Stewie... Normally we'd lynch Phoebus without even blinking an eye. I really wish I knew more about Breakdown's alignment.

The fact that no-one has come forward and said that they are also a cop is a point in Yoko's favour. I don't think it would be out of line of me to suggest that if there is another cop in the game, they should come forward before we lynch Phoebus.

[Talitha]

Y' know.. I reckon if Phoebus was innocent he'd be protesting a bit more... seems to have accepted his fate.

And no-one else has claimed cop, so I think it's safe to believe Yoko.

vote: Phoebus

[Talitha]

Sorry - bad timing there! I thought the Phobeus vs Yoko arguments had finished.

I hope we're both right.

[Talitha]

Well we finally hit pay dirt. About time. Now it's definitely game on.
6 alive and if there's 2 mafia left we absolutely have to lynch scum again today.
I'm not completely sure there's 2 left... remembering that we started with 11 players there's possibly only 3 scum total, and if Breakdown was anti-town that means only 1 scum left.
I'm not trying to lull us into a false sense of security here, I'm just saying that I have no idea whether the town is in a good position or not right now.
(Which is frustrating!)

Yoko, if you've found an innocent you should probably keep the name to yourself, unless that person is in danger of being lynched. Confirmed innocents are favourite targets for the mafia.

[Talitha]

I'm not crossing Darkblade and Stewie off my suspicious list just because they wanted Phoebus dead. Mafia commonly use this tactic and vote for one of their own who is looking suspicious, as a way of making themselves look innocent later on after their buddy is lynched.
This is why I didn't like the logic used yesterday when Stewie (?) suggested that we lynch Primoris, because he defended Phoebus. Mafia don't usually come out and openly defend their buddies either.

Tehgood seemed completely innocent to me and being that she has all of that experience I would have assumed she would have thought the same thing.

What??? Does anyone else agree with this? I could go through point by point and explain why I thought he was suspicious but I thought it was exceedingly obvious, and judging by his very quick lynch, I was not the only one who thought so. I was extremely surprised when he turned out to be pro-town, to say the least.

I figure this Talitha unless the mafia are idiots they will kill the cop tonight. I cannot be protected so divulging this information is only to the good of the town, which from my suspicions I doubt you are.

This is a fair point. We can't be sure if there's a back-up doctor so you are right to come forward with what you know.
As for your roleclaim request, I am a plain townie.

[Talitha]

Since Yoko has gone to so much trouble to detail the circumstances of tehgood's lynch I'll try and make a useful reply, but right now I'm too tired and can't concentrate for long enough, sorry!

I hope I'll have enough time to do some analysis of my own within a couple of days too.

[Talitha]

Wow - I just read the whole thread again, and I have to agree that there are certain people who are more suspicious than others.

Here's my list in order from least suspicious to most suspicious:

Yoko Kurama

- only one claimed cop, gave us Phoebus

Stewie

- Pretty much has to be pro-town… unless he’s extremely devious and/or has psychic abilities

Darkblade

- Very anti-Phoebus right from Day 1. However we can't discount the possibility that this was a clever ploy to confirm Darkblade as an innocent. Has posted very little, seems to be flying under the radar, and this makes me a little worried.

Primoris

- Voted for bigben and did not believe bigben’s claim, even though he has claimed to be a townie with no powers himself!! I found this quite strange.
Did appear to believe Phoebus’s claim. But so did other pro-town players, eg. massive.
Has been investigated and found to be pro-town. However seems to be keeping a low-profile, only posts when he has to. A possibility that he could be the Godfather.

Flying Dutchman

- Puts a 3rd vote on Primoris before Primoris had even posted, very early on Day 1. Was let off because he said it was his first game, but has since claimed experience on other sites.
- When bigben voted for Phoebus on Day 1, he immediately put a vote on bigben, thus making sure that Phoebus did not have the most votes.
- Posts have been few and far between, very short, and usually involving a vote for whoever was the easiest target at the time (APART from Phoebus)
- Hesitated to vote for Phoebus, eventually putting the 4th vote on. Not suspicious in itself apart from the fact that he hadn't hesitated in any of his other votes. (eg. Was first to vote for tehgood)

[Talitha]

Ok I'm pretty sure Talithas Mafia and I may have a decent reason. The other night when no one was killed the mafia probley tryed to kill massive. Assuming that massive was the doctor because doctors tend to protect themselves the mafia went after him instead of me because they figured massive would then protect me. So anyway FD and Primoris are newbies doubt they would have grabbed on to this strategy yet. Now Talitha and Darkblade are not new so it leaves me to believe one of them thought the idea. Darkblade always wanted phoebus dead which leaves me to believe the mafia strategist is Talitha. Plus the tehgood thing too and my gut feeling.

Even if Doctor's could protect themselves (which 99% of the time they can't), I don't understand your reasoning and how this makes me mafia. Sorry.

Yoko:

To answer your previous posts concerning me, I don’t really understand why you've singled me out as responsible for tehgood’s lynch. If any one person was responsible for it, it is tehgood himself. He constantly contradicted himself and acted suspiciously. He did not express any of his own opinions but voted for whoever was the easiest target (to save his own skin). He would seemingly say anything in order to not be lynched. It was not his first game and I could not see any explanation for his behaviour apart from him being scum. Stewie, massive, Primoris and others all agreed! Nobody, not one person, defended tehgood. Even the mod mentioned tehgood’s un-townie-like behaviour in the death scene.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing, and it’s very easy for you to point the finger, seeing as you joined the game after tehgood’s lynch. I think that if you were playing the game at that point you might have felt differently about tehgood. It seems to me that you’ve decided that I’m scum and you’re reading the thread looking for whatever you can find to back that up, rather than having an open mind.

[Talitha]

Sorry, forgot to

vote: Flying Dutchman

[Talitha]

Hmmm. Yes I agree, Nurse is quite a specific role. Looks like FD forgot that he previously claimed a vague role.

And Stewie's right, we haven't had any evidence of any other back-up roles in the game.

IIRC we have the following claims:
Cop - Yoko
Townie - Primoris
Townie - Talitha
Townie (?) - Stewie
??? - Darkblade
Nurse - Flying Dutchman

I'm sorry, it doesn't seem to fit.

Also - has Darkblade forgotten that he is in this game? It's too close to the end of the game to let anyone lurk through a whole day

FOS: Darkblade

[Talitha]

Hmm... Stewie's plan does make sense. But I'll have to think about it for a bit.

[Talitha]

Actually I don't know if I agree with a no-lynch. The mafia will probably kill Stewie tonight, because he's the most confirmed innocent. Then we'll still be faced with the same dilemma tomorrow, but we won't have Stewie around to help figure out who the scum is.

[Talitha]

Please explain why I'm suspicious for that comment?? You are the only person that I am convinced is innocent apart from myself.. therefore I would like you to be here to make the final vote.

We've only lynched one known baddie so far....

ONE!

It's driving me nuts that I don't know what roles there are in this game, and I don't know what they do. What if Primoris turns out to be the godfather, and Darkblade turns out to be another 'outsider' or something? If that's the case and we no lynch, then the town will lose!!

[Talitha]

I mean, I assume Breakdown had to be bad, otherwise this would be over by now.

[Talitha]

Actually, I'd like Darkblade to claim.... because the rest of us have.

[Talitha]

Darkblade's post has really got me re-thinking my assumptions about Stewie. I just can't understand why he would push for a no-lynch with so much unknown and before we had even started discussing things. He's done some other odd things too, but I'd written them off because I was sure he's innocent. Eg. He tried to get Primoris lynched because Primoris was defending Phoebus. At that point we didn't even know Phoebus was bad! And lynching Primoris was supposed to prove or disprove Phoebus's guilt (according to Stewie). What if he knew that Primoris was innocent, and was actually trying to protect Phoebus?

As for why the godfather would kill the cop... well there's plenty of reasons. It makes me look guilty because Yoko was pointing the finger at me. It makes Primoris look more innocent. It means the cop can't clear more people, etc.

I'm not saying that I definitely think Primoris is the godfather.. just that it can't be ruled out. I'm even starting to think that Stewie might be the godfather.... and that maybe the mod gave him a copy of the townie roles as a balancing thing. I was in a game with Norinel (Princess Bride) where all the townies confirmed each other by trading specific details about their role PMs. Obviously he (Norinel) didn't want this to happen in this game with (probably) only 2 mafia, so I guess he could've given the scum the info as a safeguard.

This is all just conjecture.. I'm no-where near sure enough to vote for anyone yet.

[Talitha]

What's your reasoning for that Primoris?

[Talitha]

Stewie & Primoris: I agree that a no lynch is a good option if we can be sure that there is one vanilla mafia left. However what makes you sure that,
a)The remaining mafia doesnt have a double kill (to balance the fact that there are only 2 mafia in the game)
b)There are 2 mafia alive and 1 is a traitor
or c)Some other variation or game mechanic which means that a no-lynch will end in a town loss.

If you think that none of these scenarios are at all likely, then please explain to me why. I've never seen a mini game with only 2 mafia before, apart from Werebear's mini (which has no cops or docs or any other helpful pro-town roles). I simply can't accept that Norinel would only put 2 plain mafia roles in this game. There must be something more to it.

I'm also quite confused at this point. A week ago if I had to vote I probably would've voted for Darkblade. 2-3 days ago I would've voted for Stewie, and right now I probably would vote for Primoris.
Argh!

[Talitha]

That b) should read "There

aren't

two mafia alive...."

[Talitha]

Primoris: I don't

know

that a no-lynch would bring a mafia victory - but I do think that it is a definite possibility that we need to bear in mind.

I apologise for doing this at this stage of the game, but I am leaving tomorrow for a 4 day (delayed) honeymoon. Back Tuesday-ish. I am aware that my vote will be required to end the day unless you other 3 all vote for me or for a no-lynch. I hope that you don't do either of those things, at least until I get back!!!

[Talitha]

I'm back. Too tired for a meaningful post right now. Nearly ready to vote Darkblade for his lack of roleclaim, but I'll wait instead with baited breath for the outcome of his reread!

[Talitha]

Yes exactly. I haven't played in a game with Darkblade before so I don't really know if that's just his playing style, but it's certainly something against him.

[Talitha]

I have to admit that Primoris is the logical choice for remaining scum. If I was relying purely on logic I would've voted for him by now I think. I just can't shake the feeling that there's something else going on.

If I was voting purely on gut-feeling I think I would've voted for Stewie by now. I have a scummy feeling from him, but it makes no logical sense.

So to sum up - I'm tending towards voting for Primoris... because it logically makes sense. But I'm just going to sit on it for a little while.

[Talitha]

He did do that yes, but did he not confirm himself at the same time? A useful outcome for him... and bigben got lynched anyway.
*shrug*
I've kinda been waiting to hear from Stewie before I vote.. to set my mind at ease or something.

And Darkblade, you're obviously reluctant to roleclaim, is there any particular reason for this? We're obviously in endgame and the more info we have the better.

[Talitha]

I'm not really sure what reason there is to keep quiet about your role at this stage of the game, Darkblade. If in fact you are the back-up cop, you're probably useless anyway, as it's likely we have a godfather left. Besides, I really don't think this game will go through another night. So, yeah, why did you not want to claim?

Question: Do mods usually mention sanity to the players? Not in my experience.

If Darkblade is telling the truth we have a doctor, nurse, cop and back-up cop vs (most probably) 2 mafia in this game, and this reinforces the fact that the mafia must have some special powers.

I guess it makes sense that we have a back-up cop, seeing as we had a nurse.. But it was a very safe claim to make seeing as everyone else has revealed their roles already.

[Talitha]

OK - I'm tending to believe Darkblade, and Stewie has put my mind at ease by that unvote of Darkblade earlier. So there's only one thing for it:

vote: Primoris

. I do think you're scum but you've played a great game, and managed to really really confuse me.

[Talitha]

Thanks everyone, and especially Norinel for the great modding and extra effort to make this game interesting and surprising. I really enjoyed it. (Apart from feeling guilty about lying and manipulating but ah well that's mafia).

I was quite (pleasantly) surprised that there wasn't more suspicion on me! Darkblade and Stewie were pretty innocent looking by their early actions, and Primoris had been investigated and found innocent! And I felt that I had played quite clumsily especially early on when I was sick (.. and Yoko did pick up on it, to his credit!) But some of the confusion about what the roles were and game balancing etc. worked to my advantage.
I was only slightly less in the dark than everyone else. The way Norinel worded the PM made me think there was someone else out there on our side and they just had to find us! And I assumed that person was Breakdown after he died and his role was revealed.

Talitha, I had you pegged for innocent when you didn't finish me off when I had two votes. Why didn't you capitalize on Primoris's quick vote on me?

I would have, if I'd seen it before Stewie unvoted, believe me! I was kicking myself for not checking the game before I went to bed that night... (different timezone here)

I figured they'd be able to use the Overling's special ability to "clear" him, but that never happened. (I was surprised when Talitha put the last vote on Phoebus) If they had used it, I would have been very explicit that the kill was performed by a vigilante.

Phoebus had already been severely FOSed for suggesting that he should prove himself by using his vig kill, and there wasn't really a good scummy-looking target by the time we'd lynched tehgood. And I was nervous about associating myself with Phoebus. Plus I wasn't completely sure how the vig kill would end up looking (especially with no mafia kill that night). And with Yoko's result, I figured he would get lynched sooner or later anyway, as we had no way of discrediting Yoko.

Maybe Phoebus should've used the vig kill on bigben's ghost.. do ya think that would've shut him up?

[Talitha]

You'll have to take me to court Yoko. I hope you've got a good lawyer.

[Talitha]

Talitha is the person to beat for Strangest Misinterpretation, thinking that they could send anyone else in the game to perform the kill.

Talitha <-- blonde

Hey you could use the idea for your theme mini Norinel!