SMBM 1: IoBC GAME OVER! CONGRATULATIONS: TOWN AND KAMIKAZE!

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/confirm

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VOTE: chkflip

Z: HAIL 2 BOWSER!
chk: OMG BREADCRUMBING?
Z: That is not scummy and also no lol
chk: Well then it is annoying or you are lying VOTE: U!
CKD: wat?
chk: Well I mean this is just RVS amirite

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It was an assumption that Bowser's inner circle could very well be the scum group here.

Have you ever played Mario RPG?

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chk's catch looks good to me.

Unvote

VOTE: GandalfIzSik

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I think chk's earlier stuff was a bit odd, but I think the catch on Gandalf's implicit wincon claim is difficult to dispute.

I sent a PM to the mod asking if some scum could be included in the "standard factional win condition." He confirmed that they were not. Players who are not town have a win condition that is written differently. (At first I'd thought "standard" might mean scum/town such that Gandalf's slip meant 3rd party of some kind.)

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@ PD -- I agree with you 100%. That's the problem. This is the town wincon:

Town Wincon

"You (Character Name) win if all forces sharing my keys are burnt to a golden crisp and at least one pathetic player remains standing in your worthless faction!"

This is what Gandalf said:

Am I the only person with a really vague role PM?

Mine strongly implied that I was a certain role, but I actually had to ask the mod to be sure.

Since the town wincon explicitly (not implicitly) states the player's role, Gandalf appears to have a different wincon. Scum or 3rd party -- not sure.

I guess it's possible that he meant something other than character by "role," but you'd hope a player wouldn't announce PR status during confirmation sooooooo...

Incidentally, two players responded to Gandalf's question in that first quote: Nexus says he's confused and Bunnylover says his PM is vague. Neither player expresses explicit role confusion, though, which is the scummy part.

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@ Gollum -- Whyzat?

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@ Lakitu -- Neither. My interpretation is that by "role" Gandalf meant "character" (like, that whether he was Mario was unclear).

It's possible that he meant role the way you intimate, but I doubt it, because it would basically mean claiming PR on page 1.

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I'd totally missed Gandalf's post at the top of page 6. I didn't know he'd ever specified that he meant abilities per se and not character.

I'm still a bit suspicious because this pretty much means he all but claimed PR pre-game, though whether that's scummy or idiocy is a separate issue.

Even if Gandalf's telling the truth, I think chk's perceived catch on him is a pro-town point in chk's favor. I still do think his "RVS" deflection on voting Zodiark was a little scummy given the obvious context and challenge, but not the GIS thing.

@ Muh -- "Hydra" means a player slot that more than one player has access to.

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1. You didn't claim PR; you did softclaim PR. Your wording does not imply VT/not as I read it, but YMMV w/e.

2. This is useful information. Could you show an example?

3. I'm pretty sure (may be mistaken) that my only other bastard mod game (Sly's Programming-themed one) had VTs, but fair enough.

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Hi everyone. I had an exam today, so I'm behind in a bunch of games. Catch-up post otw.

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1. If chk really uses "mafiosos" to mean "players in the game"...well, that's just hard to believe. That isn't something I've ever seen anyone say ever. Never seen scum slip that way, either, though.

2. @ Gollum -- So, your point is that chk is fake-scumhunting on Gandalf s/p other people having done something similar to townGandalf in the past?

3. Muh's comment that he wants to jump on the largest bandwagon to see mechanics is scummy simply because he prescribes a reason that doesn't make sense to me. We will see the mechanics when the lynch happens regardless of when it happens. Anti-town at best.

4. Agree with MS 220.

5. Disagree with DP. I agree that putting yourself out there isn't scummy, but the reason he supplied (or really, the fact that he gave one given that it WASN'T one) is scummy.

6. OK, I am seriously fed up with all this "policy lynch" talk as of HH's 223. IF SOMEONE IS LYNCHED FOR BEING SCUMMY, IT'S NOT A POLICY LYNCH. Well, I mean, I guess it KIND OF is, but calling the chk wagon "policy," whatever you think about it, is just rhetoric.

7. 2 FoS's from chk's wagon on muh so far (Zodiark and mongoose)...

Of those, mongoose's FoS makes the less sense so far (granted, Zodiark didn't really explain his FoS). While muh's post was scummy, it's certainly not because he wanted to get on a wagon unnoticed (even if that's indeed what mongoose did in his other scum game). EDIT: The other points are better, though.

My only experience with mongoose is in an ongoing game I replaced into. He was mislynched D1 and I thought he was scum as I readthrough, so there is that.

8. I have no idea what planet muh is on in 233. A wagon with reasons to vote the player is not a policy lynch. Also, you ARE voting the "policy lynch." WTF are you talking about? EDIT: I see; you mean you're not voting gandalf.

9. muh's not a newbie? (EDIT: I suppose he's not.) Has he played throughout that time, too? His first post gave that kind of vibe for sure.

Aside: why is everyone joining the wagon s/p the dayvig? I don't see the connection.

10. Muh is again in lalaland.

11. Agree with Zdenek's post 100%.

12. Don't know what GW's point is in his post against PD's logic...PD's response is good.

13. @ AH -- I hadn't noticed the post where GiS had already clarified he meant PR/vT-status rather than name. chk's logic is perfect without that.

14. I could possibly see a character like Booster as a Jester, if there is one.

15. mongoose's follow-up to the Jester spec is good provided that it isn't made-up.

I think muh posted after 15 without supplying a response to mongoose's meta claim. I would like a response there.

Unvote

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@ Gollum -- Not necessarily, no; that isn't why I asked you. Rather, I'm evaluating your argument. Do I have it right?

Spoilers: The reason I'm asking is that I don't understand why someone else doing something to townGandalf in another game has much to do with the alignment of someone ELSE who does something analogous to him in this game. Except for in some extreme cases (scum used to always policy lynch zwet v1.0 back when I first started), your rationale didn't make much sense to me.

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dana, who exactly is it that you want to lynch? Looking through your iso, all I see is chk cf. someone else's point.

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Sorry, internet's been down for a few days. Catching up.

@ muh, please answer my question from earlier:

I think muh posted after 15 without supplying a response to mongoose's meta claim. I would like a response there.

Here's what I'm talking about, to be clear:

Muh's 'Come and lynch me' style of play suggests to me either;

A) His wincon is to be lynched(ie Jester),
B) He has an ability that activates on lynch,
C) Both of the above.

Either way, I'm not going to support a Muh lynch, for fear of a Jester.

How can it be both of the above? either way, this is a good point. However, I checked this up, and he did this another game, and was scum. I only checked 2 games but this could just be typical play. TBH there is nothing else that made too much of an impact. GW may be trying to save his scum buddy, or could be telling it as he sees it.

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Ya don't reach majority, I'll burn the LIFE out of the one who has the highest total votes. If a tie happens, I'll randomly burn someone out of those people.

There's no chance of NL.

JF...are you saying you want the day to last longer?

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@ muh -- mongoose characterized your meta. Is his characterization accurate?

@ Gollum --I think you're confusing me with someone else? I didn't think chk was faking a reading mistake, if that's what you're saying.

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VOTE: mallowgeno

I think MG's suggestion that Muh's claim is legitimate is scummy regardless of Muh's alignment.

Why on earth is MG apparently voteless after all this rhetoric against him?

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IIRC, I thought it was a totally valid catch until I noticed that gandalf had already clarified what he meant by "role" in one of his posts (and before anyone had really pointed out that only that would make his comment reasonable).

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Name claim: Valentina

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Since one of the flips is a hero from the rpg, and a town flip at that, I also wonder at you saying that we need to look at the villian claims. Especially given that you questioned DP who claimed a Mario affiliated character.

Huh?

VOTE: Midnight's Sorrow

Gut s/p listing the two flipped scum by name in that last post + iso that focuses on commentary and mechanics-y stuff rather than analysis

Also, my other gut suspect (jimfinn) got town points upon iso for the fake daykill.

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You could ask the same question of Belome (already flipped town).

And nope, Valentina is a separate agent. Nothing to do with Booster.

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The chance that mallowgeno is scum is pretty low. I can't imagine Pa Mole being in the game without Ma Mole. They're both really minor characters. It also explains MG's otherwise-bizarre behavior yesterday.

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MG, could you more clearly characterize your role's relation to muh's?

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I thought about your question, and the answer I came up with led me to ask MG that question.

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OK...then that means you're neither Neighbors nor Masons...

That is not what I expected.

Still, leaning town on /outguess, especially because both the flipped scum have been standard suspects. Could be scum if it's a fakeclaim, but I'm leaning against that because my role (= Valentina) implies scum shouldn't necessarily need fakeclaims AFAICT.

EDIT: Though those sentences kinda contradict one another now that I look at them... <_<

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The mod is someone who likes Super Mario RPG enough to base an entire game around it. While I expect a few surprises along the way, I don't expect a set-up that violates major game premises. (Like, Mario-scum would be OK, villain-scum would be OK; totally random alignments are not expected).

I also don't expect the mod to do much with Pa Mole and Ma Mole, since they're extremely minor characters who have like 8 lines in the entire game. A subversion involving them would make a one-scene-only character into a major game event, which seems like squandering built-in drama.

If the game were a bastard game with a less esoteric theme -- "office romance" or something -- I'd have a different attitude toward roles.

So it's basically /outguess. YMMV, but I still feel pretty strongly about it.

Regarding your specific "Pa Mole becomes 3rd party after other dies" idea -- if the theory is that MG has recently become scum, I don't think there's any scumtell, because his play hasn't changed D1 to D2 AFAICT.

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I should point out that it

is

kind of a subversion that they're both in the game without being linked at all...that's a surprise to me.

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It calls him Johnny in-game.

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MS is usually an extremely earnest player based on my own experience with him. This is out of character. I'm not sure how to interpret it beyond that.

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Probably the only town motivation to do it is to create discussion, but at this point in the game he could have done that in other ways.

I agree with this.

I think the only reason there's any ambiguity with this D2 is meta. I don't think MS is a very sneaky player, so it's harder to contextualize his behavior.

I think the most likely reason for him doing it is that he saw someone else self-vote to positive effect in another game. But I think that leans scum for him, too, because I think town MS wouldn't even go there. I think MScum is more likely to cross-supply another player's technique.

Meta on experience with players' self-voting from MS desired.

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Yeah, I don't think MS giving up had anything to do with his self-vote.

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Reveal: saporo

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Why'd you choose MS? O_O

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I think her name is Toadstool in this game, though.

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I'm way behind this game. Then I got farther and farther behind, and the notion of catching up looked less and less appealing.

My thought that MG is town via /outguess is moderated to an extent by the fact that real-life masons have flipped by now.

Did whoever Swiftstrike claimed to have targeted explicitly deny any result? I vaguely remember something like that happening when the day first started, but I don't remember any fallout.

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@ SS -- I don't think so, no. I do do a lot of /outguess, but always in evaluating players.

I do think low activity D3 is a legitimate criticism, though.

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If I can get Booster (MS) to target me at the same time that I target him, we become lovers. PM does not clarify whether that means masons or neighbors or conventional lovers. Mod refused to clarify. I win instantly if I can get this to happen. If I die, I share a win-state with Booster. If Booster dies, I become a Neutral Survivor.

N1 I targeted CKD because he seemed disproportionately nice to me, so I thought he might be crumbing and know who I was. The Mod told me I had to vote my target the previous day for my vote to count. My PM totally does not make this clear, so that annoyed me.

N2 I targeted MS. The Mod told me that I cannot end the day voting a player for my action to go through, so nothing happened. Again, no reference to this in my PM.

I am extremely annoyed at how things have gone so far, which is why I can't really be bothered to focus on the game too much.

I crumbed in this post where I mention Booster out of nowhere.

I'll replace out if I survive today.

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Almost forgot.

Vote: Midnight's Sorrow

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Unvote

@ CKD - That's all I have going on right now as far as abilities, yes. There was more back-and-forth where I tried to get more clarifications from the Mod, but it boiled down to what I told you.

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@ CMAR/Nexus -- MS is Booster. I voted him yesterday, but I was too busy being grouchy to remember to re-establish voting-for-MS status today. May not have to redo it each day, idk, but I can't be sure.

It's like playing Mao.

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Maybe you can be activated by someone else somehow...? Like Mario...?

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I don't know if my ability has any function other than making me win if I do it right, so I figure I'll keep targeting you til it works.

CKD, let me know if something happened to you N1.

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Do you have to marry her to win or something?

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N1 and N2 mafia submitted our actions in-QT rather than via PM. Unbeknownst to us until D3, that meant they were being ignored.

So I wasn't totally making up the bit from my fakeclaim...

And then he modkilled two of us~! And we all died via chain reactions, anyway!

It's whatever. /cheer for town.

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I specified that she had to replace scum in QT. I guess I could've been clearer with "our team," though.