Newbie 1038: Welcome to the Jungle! (Game Over!)

[BrentM]

/Confirm

first timer here!

[BrentM]

1. Alot of thought went into my username if you consider a few seconds alot of thought. It is just my name

2. My avatar picture is an image of Italian spiderman, a really ridiculous superhero, I screencapped the facial expression from a scene because it made me laugh.

3. I am in the us central time zone

[BrentM]

I have no idea what to do with this vote, so I'll just

Vote: DavidParker

[BrentM]

You are right I did not have a reason, I don't have a reason to vote anyone right now.

[BrentM]

Its my first time playing!

Unvote

Ok, I'll give this a little more thought.

The fact that pine went after me and not the other two voters that voted for DP, makes me think he is genuinely trying to flush out the mafia (what I did seemed fishy looking back at it), so I actually feel good about Pine. And the fact that DP did not unvote and join him by voting for me, actually makes me feel good about DP.

I am going to

vote: tanstalas

, because they voted first and so quickly, which seems to me, is also the easy way out.

[BrentM]

So why aren't you posting in a way to get reactions/find information/analyse players so you can find a person who is "worthy" of your vote? Wouldn't that be the pro-town thing to do, rather than throwing in the towel, saying "i have no idea, i'll just put a vote on this guy for nor reason, and that's the end of my post"

Is this just:

1) DP being a friendly guy and helping the newbies out
2) Being snarky to the newbie
3) Coaching his newbie scum buddy

I like my RVS vote now, you can guess which option I think it is

Doesn't seem too friendly, definitely not coaching. Snarky for the win

[BrentM]

@Pine wouldn't that be some pretty bad coaching? It obviously put a target on my back. I promise, you are wasting your time analyzing my first time ever to vote in a mafia game.

[BrentM]

Welcome King and Lunatic!

[BrentM]

Man, this game be really frustrating but I can also see why it is so fun.

Pine, you honestly think I am the scummiest? What do you need me to explain, cause I will do it.

My first vote I voted what two others voted, because I had no idea what to do or who to vote for. People were being silly and voting because of user names, so instead of making up a stupid reason I just said I didn't have one.

Then I get called out for it, so change my mind and voted for the person that voted first, thinking "hey they did not really have a reason either, and they voted pretty quickly with no reads on anyone." And I get called out for that vote now as well as accused of being coached by the person that was rude to me? lol

I really think I have some mafia working against me here, probably because I am an easy target to get lynched. In fact, I am going to

unvote

and

vote: Pinewolf

because Pine seems to be leading this charge against me.

Again, I'll explain anything you want me to

[BrentM]

Why do you think scum has to be "leading the charge" against you as opposed to town who thinks you are scummy?

Because like I said, I think I would be an easy target for mafia to get lynched early. (smelled inexperience newbie with my first post and attacked) And his reasons for voting for me seem to make less and less sense. (Analyzing my use of the word definitely?)

btw, your reason makes no sense as well. You attacked my second vote because I didn't address tanstalas' reasons for voting DP? He voted him because of his username did not think I had to address that...

[BrentM]

Why do you think scum has to be "leading the charge" against you as opposed to town who thinks you are scummy?

btw, your reason makes no sense as well. You attacked my second vote because I didn't address tanstalas' reasons for voting DP? He voted him because of his username did not think I had to address that...

He gave reasoning that was not random in post 25. If he was voting someone else randomly, he likely would have moved his vote to DP in that post. At that point it became non-random.

Yeah, he posted that while I was posting my vote, so I went ahead and posted then responded to it in the next post. To be honest, I first thought the suggestion that I was being coached by DP to be a joke (because of DP's attitude with me). So in my mind, it was still random.

[BrentM]

What makes everyone think BrentM is scummy? All I caught is that he was kinda defensive at times. May someone please enlighten me?

Sorry, I guess I am acting a little defensive. It's my first game and I get a little miffed when people call me scum. I am just trying to explain everything I say, to clear up questions anyone may have.

[BrentM]

Sorry for double posting! I just forgot to address this.

VOTE: MirrorIrorriM

, I need to post this.

@King: Why? Am I lurking or something? Or is that a random vote?

I'd be curious to know as well, why the vote for Mirror?

[BrentM]

@pine, why am i your biggest suspect?

@lunatic, don't know why i deserved that, but you seem like a real classy person.

I am sticking with my pine vote, because his reasoning has been pretty terrible throughout the game and for reasons I have stated before.

[BrentM]

@Brent: I'm sorry I think we got off on the wrong foot...........I don't try to pick on people on the lower level side of intelligence. It's like starting a battle of wits with an unarmed man, but I just couldn't resist.

Check the rules lunatic, trying to play a game here. I don't want to get into a pissing match with you. You are throwing personal insults my way for no reason

[BrentM]

I am really waiting to hear more from lunatic, but I don't see enough evidence (other then just being a jerk) to vote for him just yet.

Some random thoughts
- if pine were scum, might he have told his scum pal lunatic that I was his target and to try and get the townies against me, thus the reason for all of the hate?
- DP was eager to find new members, maybe he was he waiting for a scum buddy?
- King hopped on the lunatic bandwagon pretty quickly

My top suspects are either pine and lunatic as scum buds or possibly DP and King.

[BrentM]

I actually feel pretty good about mirror being town. Mirror already explained why they didn't vote lunatic and Mirror also questioned the scum votes against me.

[BrentM]

Being sick, bored, manipulation, Blaming language barrier. I could be wrong but don't these sound like scum excuses?

Pine, if you are not scum and now you've decided to go against your "hunch" on me, do you have a read on anything else as to who may be scum? I'm keeping my vote where it is for now.

[BrentM]

You did say your English can be weird at times in your OP Pinewolf, however, I am not going to use that to say you are innocent (anyone here play with Andrew94 will know what I am talking about). My votes stays on you until you convince me you are not scum or someone else slips up.

On a sidenote - this game is all about analyzing what people post, as you probably know. For you since English is not your primary language I can see this being somewhat of an challenge with what grammar to use, however this just means you need to be extra meticulous with your posts.

I have seen people who are scum in a game use the excuse of English is not their primary language to their advantage, whether intentional or not... - see above point in parenthesis

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=14984 is the game I was in with Andrew94 you can see what I mean

After reading that game thread, I realized how much of a newbie I am.

@Llama, why do you think DP is town?

[BrentM]

dang, good points King

Especially his attitude in other games. I'd really like to hear from lunatic, but I agree with your conclusions.

Unvote, Vote lunaticlucas

[BrentM]

hmmm, I've noticed BrentM a couple of times online today reading the thread but not responding to it. I'd be interested in your opinion on all that has happened recently, brent.

Reading from my phone at work, I'll post my thoughts when I get home in a couple hours and digest everything I've read.

Oh, and

unvote

[BrentM]

Ok, after reading through all of this I am starting to lean a little more towards Pine not being scum, he has explained himself as best as he could. But I still don’t like that VOT vote, that really confuses me, regardless of not wanting to be blamed for causing a hammer on lucas. That vote seems like the easy way out and worrying more about himself then about getting rid of scum.

I really like King’s posts, (I am having some of the same thoughts he has) and trust his analysis. If he is scum, bravo.

Mirror seems to making sure no one buddies to him and also seems to be doing some heavy scum hunting. This to me seems town.

DP is interesting. I agreed with a lot of his posts about not lynching lurkers, but some of them confused me. (not wanting someone to claim, and really trying to get the town to lynch Pine.)

I still don’t know what to make of lunatic. His early insults still make no sense to me. And he seems to only like David because he was snarky? As rude as I thought his insults were, I think if he were mafia he would’ve toned it back a little and it very well could just be his personality.

There is one thing that bugs me about Llama. He posted no opinions on David except to be more helpful then randomly declared that David must be town with no reasoning at all.(post #94) I don’t know if this means he is working with David, but I thought it was really strange.

Based on these thoughts, my top suspects are Pine (for that VOT vote) and Llama (for that David town claim) but I don’t have enough to give either one a vote.

[BrentM]

Ok, Ive been thinking about this some more, and I think Pine and Llama are the scum team. Here is my case against them based on my opinions of Llama's posts

Sorry for typos, its late

- (post #45) follows his scum bud's lead, and votes for me to try and pull public opinion against me.

- (Post #50) Tries to convince King to vote for either me or DP (I mention this here because I think he was testing the waters on public perception of me).

- (post #52) Valid point, but he sure bashes my pine vote pretty quickly, not having bashed any other votes yet. I voted his scum friend, and he needed to make it look pointless

- (post #59) After mirror calls him out and public perception of my actions change, he probably realizes it might look like scum buds on a non scum vote so he quickly changes tactics, and lays low for a while.

** it is at this point that Llama seems to have picked a new target in Mirror (who just so happened to have voted for Pine in post #65)

- (post #83) Trying to get Mirror's heat off of pine and on to lunatic.

- (post #94) Random claim of DP being town, and now throws Mirror in the scum bucket with his buddy Pine. Gives Pine an out from some recent accusations, but yet still throws a town view to keep the image

- (Post #102) clearly tried to get Mirror to vote for lunatic again, now here he also claims he has finals and that he will address pine later.

- (post #141) After posting in another game thread all night (6 times after he said he would be away), he comes back to our game the next day and votes lunatic, the popular vote, while throwing an opinion out there that he doesn't like the pine voting going on.

Llama's actions to me just seem like something a really smart scum player would be doing. Protecting his newbie scum buddy, while trying to change public opinion on others (Mirror) and maybe force a lynch of an innocent. (Lunatic) I feel like I have enough evidence to do a vote, so I

Vote: LlamaFluff

[BrentM]

...
- (post #141) After posting in another game thread all night (6 times after he said he would be away), he comes back to our game the next day and votes lunatic, the popular vote, while throwing an opinion out there that he doesn't like the pine voting going on.
...

If this is true then your theory could easily be correct!

...I can't check if its true right now due to unfamiliarity with the "search posts" function on this forum.

If you click the username you can click search user's posts on their profile.

[BrentM]

Pine, Llama's actions are the reason for my theory. Your scrambling defense only makes me feel stronger about it. You can't keep playing the newbie card on me and no, I do not think Llama is protecting town.

Also, I read a game where DP was the doctor and aggressiveness is definitely his playing style.

[BrentM]

I am on my phone, so it is too difficult to quote your previous post, but Pine you did try and blame my theory on "newbieness". That is playing the newbie card.

And you made a general statement about DP, seemingly to get others to back you. I'm not allowed to comment on it if I disagree and have evidence for my disagreement? I'll give you a link to the game after I get off work.

[BrentM]

@DP, I think both are probably scum, but after analyzing each of Llama's posts, I feel pretty strong about him being scum as opposed to tanst. I could go with either pine or llama.

[BrentM]

@Llama, no you wouldn't. But I think Pine is scum based on your reactions to his gameplay. I asked previously, but why did you state so early that DP was town? Also, why did you get a scummy vibe from pine at one point but now think he is town?

[BrentM]

You are right Llama, I think you and Pine both are scum, but I also have a weird vibe about you and DP. DP is so sure of Pine but tried to deflect mirror and I from you, who shows signs of working with his prime suspect. Throw in the random DP town claim by you too.

i will leave my vote as is, unless someone convinces me to switch to pine.

[BrentM]

I am on my phone, so it is too difficult to quote your previous post, but Pine you did try and blame my theory on "newbieness". That is playing the newbie card.

And you made a general statement about DP, seemingly to get others to back you. I'm not allowed to comment on it if I disagree and have evidence for my disagreement? I'll give you a link to the game after I get off work.

Game I was referring to

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=15318

I noticed a lot of the same rash behavior he has displayed in here, but that is by no means an excuse

[BrentM]

Ok, so two DP votes today. I am trying to decide what to do here. I like my Llama vote but I'll admit I could be wrong.

So, I am trying to decide between DP and Pine. I'll re-read and think about it a little more, but I still have Pine above DP on my scum list.

@tanstalas, @lunatic, thoughts?

Is VOT still playing?

[BrentM]

I am on my phone, so it is too difficult to quote your previous post, but Pine you did try and blame my theory on "newbieness". That is playing the newbie card.

And you made a general statement about DP, seemingly to get others to back you. I'm not allowed to comment on it if I disagree and have evidence for my disagreement? I'll give you a link to the game after I get off work.

Game I was referring to

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=15318

I noticed a lot of the same rash behavior he has displayed in here, but that is by no means an excuse

With a quote like:

Timmer is town, Dean is scum.

Let's get moving towards his lynch now.

on page 4.

He turns out to be doctor in that game, how can we be sure of anything?!

That's exactly what I posted it Mirror, you can't use his attitude as a tell, because he acts like that all the time

[BrentM]

He contridicted himself in a single post and you only think he's slightly scummy? That seems extrordinarily scummy to me. I mean the contradiction, not your not thinking he's scummy.

Referring to me or someone else? If me then I really have to apologize. I took my vote off of him because he made a nice case for himself I thought. I wanted to branch out and find scummier people. I guess it doesn't make sense for me to take the vote OFF of him but it doesn't make much of a difference in my mind. If I find someone scummier, I put my vote on them, if I find no one else or I find more evidence against Pine, I vote for him again. It really doesn't seem to make sense that it is contradictory. It makes no real difference in the long run.

I believe that was talking about Tanstala's claim of DP being slightly scummy not you mirror

[BrentM]

@mod - any chance for a votevount?

second that, official vote tally would be nice

[BrentM]

since nothing is happening and i think both pine and llama

unvote, vote pinewolf

[BrentM]

I think at this point we should just make a decision. We may be wrong about Pine but there is not much else to go on imo. If Pine turns out to be town, it will answer a lot of questions and I think we will have a good idea on where to go from there.

[BrentM]

meh, ATE is common from newbie towns.

Unvote, vote: tanstalas

As much as i think not lynhing someone who has claimed VT isn't very pro-town, as long as we are lynching scum i am happy. AT the moment i am more convinced of tanst scum than pine scum. Although I still find pine quite scummy and a "possible" buddy for tanst.

you have been convinced that pine is scum, and right before he is about to be lynched you switch??

[BrentM]

So if pine is now considered town, and I also agree he most likely is, then my llama case goes away, apologies llama.

So, now I am back to square one. Awesome

[BrentM]

Vote lunaticlucas

Going to shift back to this train of thought

A very quick breakdown of why he is scum

1) Lack of reads early
~In his opening post where he did a rundown of players, he has two town reads and that is it.
~Leaves adjustable reads for everyone but his town reads (Brent and Mirror)
2) Hypocritical lurker stance
~He early says that lurking is scummy but he seems to take offense to KTS for saying that he is lurking and scummy for it. That really doesnt add up to much for me since he is trying to avoid using a tell against himself while vouching for its validity against others.
3) Pine stance
~There is multiple spots where he flat out refuses to vote pine at a point where it would put him very close to a lynch for no discernable reason.
4) How to play
~Asking for what peoples tells are is a little bit of a tell since it allows you to adjust your play such that you can ideally make moves to avoid tells. A side note being able to lock down on what other people consider scummy is the best way to play as scum since you can avoid setting off alarms for most people.
5) Vote on me
~No its not OMGUS, sorta
~The case on me was based off Pine flipping scum
~~lunatic, who already stated that he had a hard time actually throwing down a vote on Pine immediately jumping on me for the premise that Pine was scum just reads very bad.

+Other things
~The only way I see Pine as possible scum is with lunatic, even then I doubt that
~I would be shocked if both lunatic and mirror were town in this game, although both scum together is probably a long shot
~Brent and KTS are still def town, Pine almost for sure.

great points, and points others made have led me to go ahead and

Vote LunaticLucas

[BrentM]

I check every day, my vote is staying on Lucas for now

[BrentM]

what is the vote tally?

[BrentM]

we need to come up with a decision, if anything else to give this game some life.

I think all of the back and forth at this point is just keeping us from moving forward. I am switching my vote to DP, he keeps jumping ship and his voting makes little sense. I have become convinced he is trying to keep the town scrambling.

unvote, vote DP

[BrentM]

UNVOTE:
It's the holidays. I wouldn't expect Uite to catch up in two games at once, especially with deadlines coming up, and I think it'll relieve some of the pressure from others thinking they need to get something said/done asap before Christmas (though I think Uite's the only one who hasn't gotten a chance yet). I know a lot of people around the site are V/LA anyway, due to traveling, being with families, etc.
VOTE: Deadline extension

If this is a no-go, we have three days, so I'm hoping Uite catches up quick.

Blah...while I really thought Luna/Uite was the better lynch, I don't like how DP's made it a more difficult decision. DP, your vote seems more out of desperation than anything else...what's the reason for it this time?

Eventhough we already have an extension, I honestly don't think delaying this any longer will help us. If you think they are both scummy, wavering at this point seems completely unproductive. We have 4 votes on DP, we have his claim, why can't you just finish this? If you are are afraid to hammer, I will unvote and hammer for you

[BrentM]

singer, why have you not cast a vote?

[BrentM]

singer, why have you not cast a vote?

I've been voting for Luna/Uite almost the whole time I've replaced in. I only unvoted to vote for a deadline extension. Why is that any less a legitimate vote than voting for DP or Uite?

Because you say they are both scummy (which I agree with), yet unvote when we actually have the opportunity to lynch and move this game along. More time is going to get us no where.

[BrentM]

On the off chance that he is NOT scum, are you not willing to see what he has to offer in case he is NKed tonight? Why are you ready for the day to end so quickly?

Are you serious? Because we are getting no where and we have done nothing!

@DP - Why is lunatic/Uite scum? Is he your top pick? Second pick?]I can understand the confusion for new players over the whole deadline extension thing, but there's no reason that with a replacement, and now the mod's confirmed we have extra time, we'd need my vote on Luna/Uite. By my count, Uite has 3 votes, and DP has 4. Do you think by my putting Uite back at L-1, it would be beneficial to scare him into hammering DP (theoretically for sake of his own preservation) before he gives us his promised analysis?

If DP would just stop evading questions directed at him and Uite would get some good analysis up...buh...
I'm actually really curious as to what Uite's thought process is, giving DP a town read, and being the only other wagon...

If you vote for Uite I will unvote and hammer, if you vote for DP then that would be the hammer. Cast a vote! Your inability to is becoming concerning

[BrentM]

Cast a vote! Your inability to is becoming concerning

I am curious as to why it's so concerning. Have I not proven my ability to cast a vote? I stand by being willing to lynch Uite if he can't come up with anything substantial soon. You seem to be the only one impatient here. Calm yourself.

Hmm...it's a good thing I unvoted, otherwise your impatient butt would've already hammered, and we'd be absolutely no where if we're wrong.

I've been on day 1 for 23 days, I am ready to move on. You are keeping that from happening. That is all. Thanks

[BrentM]

BrentM:

Solid player. He had a slow start, but after that he really pulled it together. He's not shy giving his opinions, and he's done some good detective work on DP and Llama. Pro-town.

lol, it's sad that this line is one of the main reasons I am switching my vote. For some reason it feels like it was put out there to keep me from switching. Seems a little forced.

unvote, vote Uite

[BrentM]

VOTE: DavidParker

Why did you suddenly change from Pine and Singer being scum, to DP being scum? It seems like a very fast change of opinion with not much grounds behind it.

Scum survival imo, it would put DP at L-1. That is exactly what I was looking for. My vote is staying where it is

[BrentM]

Did you even fucking read my explanation? It's not there just to fill space you know. I think you're suffering from severe confirmation bias; everything I do is going to look scummy to you, no matter what. Try looking at what I'm doing without preconceived notions. By the way, what you're describing fits exactly with what DP did, so why aren't you voting for him?

I think you are both scum. But now I feel more strongly about you. Get angry all you want, if I am wrong, then I apologize, but I am staying with my vote.

[BrentM]

@King, I do see how you can see that, but I firmly believe our best bet is to lynch DP or Uite. We have been back and forth on this plenty of times and rehashing will do us no good. I am trying to get us to make a decision and move on with it

[BrentM]

btw, Uite, did you claim?

[BrentM]

Also what happened with Brent? He just disappeared, I am assuming because of the holidays, just a heads up would have been nice, he just left us with the head scratching "btw, Uite, did you claim?" post and then gone..
.

Sorry, was away for holidays, thought it was assumed everyone would be.

I asked to claim, because I thought that's what everyone is supposed to do before a hammer vote??? Am I wrong here?

[BrentM]

Unvote, vote DP