Mini 1091 Mafia Mania -- Game Over

[Substrike22]

/confirm

Here we go.

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This is not a random vote.

Vote: Moos200x

For already having a wall of scummy, irrelevant information up, claiming you'll be acting less scummy than usual.

[Substrike22]

I agree the moose stuff isnt great. But I am prepared to give him a it of a chance, I think we should give him the wriggle room to hang himself if he is scum.For now.

Hiraki however,

Hiraki agrees someone looks scummy, moans at somebody elses play then votes for a third person (randomly presumably) with no reason provided. This and some strange stuff about town reads and activity he earns my vote.

vote hiraki

This honestly strikes me as a bit of a chainsaw vote. You acknowledge that moose isn't great and then you go immediately on the offense against someone who mentioned his name as scummy.

However, I agree with boberz that I would like to know why you're voting Maryayaarera over Moose right now. Moose wagon needs some help. I want pressure, damn it. Also, Hiraki can you clarify your above argument? What do you mean by "Did you honestly believe...knowing that they would most probably be scum?"

[Substrike22]

Yes that's it exactly.

[Substrike22]

I think that your /confirm post is the scummiest post so far in the game. Now you're asking questions to which I've already answered on Page 1. Note the top of my post with a vote for you. It has your answer. Stall more. Boberz' chainsaw of you looks even better now.

[Substrike22]

Yeah it amazes me that you can't remember a post from half a page ago, brah. Imagine what'll happen when we're up to 3 or 4.

Also you still haven't addressed the issue of why all of Hikari, Boberz, and I all agreed you made a scummy post in the first place. Might want to focus on that in your next post, "boy".

p-edit: Fair enough Boberz. I agree with your point about his vote, by the way. Waiting for his explanation on that one.

[Substrike22]

note: I'm sick, so if anything doesn't make sense there was some problem getting it out of my head and into my computer.

also guys, I am going to try and change my play for this game. I am getting better and better at this game and I would like to try to improve my always reading scummy style. I will more than likely go back to my old ways lol. But yeah, just don' t think I am scummy cuz I am not acting as scummy as usuall LOL.

So yeah

Cool story bro. This just gave me the wrong feeling.

^that was also my initial reaction. Everything was fine up to the very last sentence. How we treat this though, depends on the type of moose this is. Is he the type that will say these awkward comments often? Also, what is the reading scummy style? I think I know what he might be talking about, but I'll have to skim his old games.

Moose wagon needs some help. I want pressure, damn it.

I never like when people say the first sentence, or any form of it....
As for the second sentence...I'm pretty sure when you say your intent of pressuring, you just kinda ruin your plan. Just saying >_>

And this is scummy, why? Did you honestly believe that I could vote one of the people in my post based off of that information, fully knowing that they would most probably be scum?

I must be misunderstanding this, it sounds to me that you are admitting to being scum and damning atleast one of the other two as scum too. Surely I am reading this wrong?

Interesting point here. Hiraki is another I will probably look into.

@Hiraki: Could you possibly rephrase that sentence? Just...re-say what you mean in different words.

Those are my initial reactions right now. For better or for worse, everyone I talked about in my post caught my eye. I'm assuming when I look up moose's old games, that will probably explain his behavior.

Also, not everyone in this game has posted yet. Just under half have not gotten into this conversation yet, so please do not be hasty with lynchings.

What don't you like about me calling for an information gathering pressure wagon? If Hikari doesn't buy wagons as good scum hunting tools I'm interested to know how he makes decisions, but that's probably a better conversation for after the game. I, on the other hand, believe in wagons, and believe they force scum into making mistakes.

Take for example, the way moose has been acting since I started putting pressure on. Favorite post by far (behind the confirmation post) has to be:

Yeah it amazes me that you can't remember a post from half a page ago, brah. Imagine what'll happen when we're up to 3 or 4.

Also you still haven't addressed the issue of why all of Hikari, Boberz, and I all agreed you made a scummy post in the first place. Might want to focus on that in your next post, "boy".

p-edit: Fair enough Boberz. I agree with your point about his vote, by the way. Waiting for his explanation on that one.

You seriously think I care what anyone of you three has to say? I MAKE SCUMMY POSTS all game, get used to it. Or just tunnel me until day 3 when I am finally lynched and everyone bitches at me for ruining the game. Been there done that.

That one.

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In order of posts read:

@ Antius Maximus (Ant to the max) re: post 85, quoted here:

What don't you like about me calling for an information gathering pressure wagon?

That is not what I meant. I mean I hate the "dude, lynch this guy now" phases.

Now, onto Moose.
After I looked at his past games, I don't think he is scum. Look at his past games and you will see this is just who he is.

Note: in post #75 I am quoted for something I didn't say. Mr Wright's name should be there.

I wasn't calling for his lynch, I was calling for more votes. There is a difference to me. When I say the guy needs rope, I want him dead. If I say I want pressure, I want him at L-2 or somewhere in the vicinity. Gets people talking, imo, and I wanted him talking. Plus Moos was ok with posting content-less posts and being sarcastic when we all had a pile of valid reasons building on him. I am and was hoping this would cause Moos to actually post something decent. It has not, and

now I'm calling for Moos to be lynched.

Bolded so there isn't confusion this time. (not sarcastic, promise) Also I agree with whoever (Hiraki or Boberz) said that Meta is a bad way to go. People can manipulate their playstyles knowing their meta will be looked at. He said he was scum. He needs to die. If they're going to come out and claim scum, that's extremely anti-town and unhelpful in any way. Moos needs rope.

@ Hiraki, in post 89, when you're citing AntB's stuff at the bottom, how did you generate those post numbers? I tried reading the game with both with him in Iso and with everyone viewable and the post numbers weren't lining up. Just trying to follow your argument.

@ Lateralus, I don't generally share anything other than my scum reads anymore, for a variety of reasons. If I had to summarize my standpoints at this point in a few sentences, I want Moos dead and I'm currently watching a few other players. Lord Chronos is striking me as scummy as well, at this point. He's posted 4 times and if anyone Iso's those 4 posts it looks dangerously like active lurking. I have one player who I fully believe is town, and another one that I believe is beginning to be called on scummy traits, but I'll keep those to myself for now. Mariyta is temporarly absconded from this wrath because I believe he/she has just fallen inactive... i.e. there aren't a few scattered posts here and there making it seem like Mariyta is attempting to avoid a prod. Also, I find myself agreeing with your sentiment on Beefster, given his posts thus far.

@ LordChronos, given the above statement, I'd like to see more reads and posts out of you. Don't do town reads, for the reasons boberz' pointed out with the "shopping list". Just your top 2-3 scum reads and concrete reasons other than "I agree" would be nice. Thank you Same goes with Mariyta when he/she gets on.

For the record: I disagree with everyone saying Hiraki needs to share his town reads. I think he does need to throw his top 2-3 scum reads up, past Moos, and reasons for them.

p-edit: Thank you, LordChronos. A little more would be helpful though, if you can manage something.

[Substrike22]

Sub: No reason not to list town reads. The idea that they give scum a shopping list of people to night kill is silly. First, your town reads tend to be fairly obvious from your play. Second, the scum are trying to remove town's power roles as well.

Also, I felt that moose was fairly clearly being sarcastic when he made the "I am scum" comment. What gave you the impression that he wasn't?...

I disagree with this. I used to be a fan of the shopping lists, but I've seen what damage they can do in a few of my games, and I also view them as a bit of a scum tell depending on how they're presented. Agree to disagree? I'd be willing to concede to the Ryuk and ask Hiraki to share some of his reasoning for the D1 declaration of town reads, mainly due to the fact that I'd imagine that Hiraki's reads have shifted in some way by now.

@Sub: No, Hiraki is sharing his past reads. There is absolutely no reason not to because that was

page 1

, any "danger" that could possibly arise would be mute because his reasoning is probably outdated. It seems to be a trend now, can we not post empty statements of having reads and not explaining them? Or ya know, you could explain them too if you feel the need to post part of them.

Preview Edit

: Chronos is right, Town reads are tech. Though I'd say keep majority to yourself/not post empty claims of having them unless it's good to put them out.

Can you elaborate on "Town reads are tech"? Rest of post quoted as reasoning for agreeing with the push for Hiraki's information.

So substrike- Just to clarify right now. Do you think I am scum or do you think I am just anti-town?

Both. If I had to choose, severely anti-town. But, your OMGUS accusations aimed at Boberz and I are scummy at worst, a bad idea at best.

@ Boberz's, re post 109: (couldn't quote your block correctly for some reason):
1. I agree with your sentiment about the moose claiming scum thing
2. I'm calling for his lynch now, because before I just wanted pressure. Now he's in lynch territory. In terms of what turned me, I wasn't 100% sure with that first /confirm post. He's assumed an extremely poor position since then and it's time to get some rope.

@ Hiraki, I lol'd at the Death Note reference. I think this is made even funnier by the fact that we both have 22 at the end of our names, thus making my usual method of scanning for posts aimed at me rather confusing.

[Substrike22]

Boberz, read moos through when I was comfortable asking for pressure, then read him through when I called for his lynch. He went from bad, to worse. Under pressure he was freaking out (which is a null), but also started behaving in an extremely anti-town fashion. You yourself said that claiming scum is never a pro-town move. So what exactly is it that you want me to explain, past that? Dude's scum.

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@AntB

Your post basically just said: "I don't like the reason behind your argument not to lynch you, moose, but I will go ahead and unvote you anyway. Your play is bad and scummy."

Why unvote him if you don't agree with meta and find his play bad and scummy, especially since you don't seem to have another more pressing suspect.

QFT.

Unrelated:

It displeases me that Moos' wagon is dead. But, fine.

UNVOTE: Moos200x

More content please.

In other news:

Fuck me. Procrastinating and busy schedule sucks, sorry all. Heading out to a party now. You'll have to wait one more day for my post, but I'll make that count.

How about that post?

VOTE: Dekes

LordChronos who are your top two scum reads other than beefster, and why? And what specifically do you find scummy about beefster? I see lack of content.

ScumDar:
Moos
LordChronos
----=-=-----
Beefster
Dekes

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It displeases me that Moos' wagon is dead. But, fine.

Cuz voting the guy who isn't here is totally going to spring forth another wagon amright? How can possibly disregard your suspicion of moose at the drop of a hat when you were so eager to see his lynch? You're not looking for scum, you're looking for easy targets.

Unvote;
Vote: Substrike22

Or we have a week and a half 'til deadline and if we're not going to lynch moose, I want information. Try again.

[Substrike22]

Oh and yet again

everyone in the fucking game

is coaching moose on how to be town. Clearly not a good target for a lynch today, people.

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I'll vote Beefster, I'd just rather vote you right now, Dekes. Funny how that post comes after that vote. Active lurking? Guess we'll find out.

Anyways, onto the hot topic of the day: Beefster. Scummy? Yes. Scummiest? No.

Also, Dekes, why or how would you assume there's a vigilante in the game? Calling for someone to be vigged on d1 of a mini normal game strikes me as an extremely odd play. That seems highly suspicious to me. I still have yet to have a Vig in any mini game I've either read or played, but if someone provides me a link I'll be more apt to buy this.

I get why people are saying Moos might not be scum, if ya'll have played with him before, but with how blatantly anti-town he's being, are you all serious about keeping him around til lylo to find out? Really? LordChronos is a close second for me behind Moos. I'd be down for either of them today.

[Substrike22]

Sounds good moos.

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Oh and sub, don't fucking call me moos anymore.

Then don't ask like this, don't slander my name for the first two pages (expecting me to honor and respect yours), and don't call me bro, broheim. Can you play the game instead of worrying whether or not I attach an e to your name? Or is that asking too much?

UNVOTE: Dekes

VOTE: Moos

It's staying there this time. I'll consider switching back to Chronos if we're reaching deadline but otherwise this is the guy I want.

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Oh and yet again everyone in the ****ing game is coaching moose on how to be town. Clearly not a good target for a lynch today, people.

A good target for a lynch for scum if he is town. Do you like to always lynch the VIs on D1?

And for my own sake Vig= Vigilant right? And Mini Normal games use a mod defined setup that contains "standard" mafia roles right? Probably should have asked that at the start of the game.

No, honestly, but I'm willing to make an exception for this guy. I've let Drmyshotty live a few days before. Regretted it come Lylo. I'm not a huge fan of policy lynches, but Moose's play has been extremely, extremely anti-town and I don't even feel this qualifies as a policy lynch anymore. Dude's been anti-town mostly and scummy partly. Good enough for me. Lord Chronos has resumed active lurking. just so it's noted.

Vig = Vigilante, yes. And I believe your analysis of the standard mafia roles is correct, but I don't know how often Vig falls under that, hence the reason I found it strange that whoever was calling for the vig was calling for the vig. Kind of still waiting for 2nd opinions on this one, guys?

[Substrike22]

Also his attack on me comes off as a huge OMGUS to me, considering he failed to provide any kind of reasoning, and also oversimplified my entire case against him into non existence. I think it's time he claimed, as Boberz' said, especially since he's already half out of the bag at this point anyways.

[Substrike22]

I'd be willing to concede to the Ryuk and ask Hiraki to share some of his reasoning for the D1 declaration of town reads, mainly due to the fact that I'd imagine that Hiraki's reads have shifted in some way by now.

There's no real reason why I added them. I just declared them because I could. I guess in hindsight I should've said nothing at this point, but what's done is what's done.

No rage. I understand your position, and though I disagree with it, it's kind of a null for me.

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And @ Boberz, I have my own opinion on that but I favor others right now. I.e. Lord Chronos/Moose.

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I'll vote Beefster, I'd just rather vote you right now, Dekes. Funny how that post comes after that vote. Active lurking? Guess we'll find out.

Anyways, onto the hot topic of the day: Beefster. Scummy? Yes. Scummiest? No.

Then why vote me? Shouldn't you be voting your top scumpick?

Also, Dekes, why or how would you assume there's a vigilante in the game? Calling for someone to be vigged on d1 of a mini normal game strikes me as an extremely odd play. That seems highly suspicious to me. I still have yet to have a Vig in any mini game I've either read or played, but if someone provides me a link I'll be more apt to buy this.

Do you not understand what a hypothetical statement is?

I get why people are saying Moos might not be scum, if ya'll have played with him before, but with how blatantly anti-town he's being, are you all serious about keeping him around til lylo to find out? Really? LordChronos is a close second for me behind Moos. I'd be down for either of them today.

Looks like a scum slip. Subtly pushing for a lynch of non-scum?

FoS: Substrike

until I see the votecount.

Do you not see the second half of that sentence where I blatently say that you are not my top scum pick? "Scummiest? No."

Hypothetically, do you think I'd know what a hypothetical statement is? Also hypothetically, hypothesize for a minute that that statement was not a hypothetical statement and was instead a scum-slip due to information that Dekes has, that we do not. Then, hypothetically, you could provide me with several hypotheses as to what may or may not be occurring with Dekes. Thank you.

Alternative: I'm acknowledging that I can see why everyone's saying panicing townie and then pushing for a scum lynch. I'm saying that at worst, we get rid of an anti-town player. Why is this a problem?

Honestly, all three of these seem like you're trying to make problems out of thin air. You're reaching at best, scummy at worst. Just to clarify, though, still not scummiest. In case there was/is any confusion for the next time.

[Substrike22]

Do you not see the second half of that sentence where I blatently say that you are not my top scum pick? "Scummiest? No."

I misread that. My bad.

Alternative: I'm acknowledging that I can see why everyone's saying panicing townie and then pushing for a scum lynch. I'm saying that at worst, we get rid of an anti-town player. Why is this a problem?

Because you only said he was anti town and made no mention of his actual scumminess.

Honestly, all three of these seem like you're trying to make problems out of thin air. You're reaching at best, scummy at worst. Just to clarify, though, still not scummiest. In case there was/is any confusion for the next time.

I'm approaching it with a questioning attitude. If I push a liar hard enough, he will eventually blatantly contradict himself.

True. But I had called him scummy in about half my posts up until that point so I felt it was redundant at that point.

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@ Mod, requesting V/LA 2-4 days. Probably won't need it, but I'm moving home from university for winter break and I may not have a place to set up my computer with internet right away, but I'll try. This is just a precaution so I don't get replaced.

Also if anyone sees me "browsing" the forum during this time, it'll be on my smartphone, and I'm not trying to post a case on someone with a touchscreen, sorry. Not to mention that I'm pretty ok with my vote at this point. Gonna have to read brokenscraps' walls of text here before I get a good post up... will be coming as soon as the computer is set back up.

[Substrike22]

Why does anyone want to leave moose alive after that? We really.want to let him vig boberz, assuming we.buy the power role claim?

[Substrike22]

Moose for the record I started spelling your name correctly on the last page, before you went all Mel Gibson on Boberz and I. Check the top post if you don't believe me. Secondly everyone needs to look at Mariytas post on the previous page, it is scummy. Full post when I get to a computer and off my phone.

[Substrike22]

I find two other interesting things on p. 11/12 of this forum:
AntB's post 277. What were you looking for, honestly? Why does him posting one honest thing suddenly make up for everything he's done?

Anyone else find Mari calling Moose "vig-bait" on the previous page interesting, since Moose had essentially already soft-claimed vig?

Whoever said the thing about deadline and Christmas is right. We need to move towards a lynch. I am not comfortable letting Moose shoot Boberz, the mod has made it clear that we're not getting a replacement or a mod kill, so my vote's staying where it is, and I implore others to join.

Also, for the record: Werewolf/Hiraki isn't striking me as scum. Her post on p. 11 detailing the case on Beefster was a pretty straight forward and valid attempt at scum hunting. I don't understand why there are 4 people on her wagon with no one looking at Mari, AntB, or Dekes, all of whom are scummier. In addition, the case (he/she? Werewolf?) makes on Beefster actually makes me ok with a Beefster vote, if we're headed that way towards deadline.

[Substrike22]

It doesn't, he's gotta work for it.

@Lateralus
Sure why not... seeing as were going to need moose alive i'll UNVOTE: moose200x... My opinon on who later...

So you believe his claim, but the only reason you're unvoting is to keep him around? Strange.

Beefster I didn't say that, antb did.

[Substrike22]

Werewolf I said I didn't understand the wagon on you, not that I didn't understand the wagon on beefster. Also I nascent aheeped anything this game, so please reread my post on the previous page.

Also, why again are we letting this plan go through with moose posting crap like that?

[Substrike22]

Also I nascent aheeped anything this game

please clarify

Haven't sheeped. Sorry, fucking auto correct.

[Substrike22]

I don't understand why Moose isn't dead since he's claimed scum twice.

But since town is insistent on losing this one.

UNVOTE: Moose200x
VOTE: Beefster

Beefster's higher on my scum-dar than Werewolf.

[Substrike22]

Also picking up prod for the record, in case that needed to be clearly stated.

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It was a busy night. People sleeping, people dying. That kind of thing. You gather in the Town Square in the morning to assess the damage.

werewolf555, Vanilla Townie,

has been dismembered and is dead.

brokenscraps, Town Tracker,

has been shot. (And is dead.)

Day Two begins now. Deadline: January January 20.

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

No your wrong mod, i shot werewolf.

I would like to draw your attention to .... your Role PM.

VOTE: Moose200x

[Substrike22]

Mariyta and Moose scumteam?

[Substrike22]

Unless you've got an explaination on what you said after the night was over, and an explanation on how he ended up dead, Occam's Razor states you did. So, yes I think you killed werewolf, but I'm also willing to hear you out.

[Substrike22]

Why mariyta substrike?

Post 504, where Mariyta simply refuses to give an opinion on moose via a "yeah, didn't iso" remark. There was an opinion on everyone else there, why not moose as well? Plus there were a few things that I believe I mentioned yesterday (game yesterday) about Mari calling Moose "vig bait" when moose had already soft claimed vig. But I see that as a null slip on some ways. I was more mentioning moose/mariyta as a thought. Any guesses as to who I want to lynch?

I still find post 227 from AntB one of the scummier posts in the game, it looks like it's providing an out for moose as a potential scum buddy at best, at worst it's kind of a reaching post in either coaching or a poor attempt at scum hunting.

[Substrike22]

What are you talking about? I was the first one on the Moose wagon. Did you even bother going back to look at the moose wagon before that lie came out of your mouth? I jumped on the beefster wagon because we were approaching deadline and headed for a no lynch. My implication of losing by voting for beefster was simply a push for moose. Whom I still think is scum.

[Substrike22]

You wrote:

"With this in mind, I am going to say that Substrike is scum. Rereading through his post I get the feeling like he pulled one of those "Yeah...I see your point on that wagon guys...I'll join it at the end so I don't draw attention to myself". When Moose also let out his angry "i'm going to kill bob" Substrike got really defensive about it. Possible defending of a scum buddy here."

Explain to me how the subject goes from moose to a wagon without having anything to do with what I was calling you out for?

[Substrike22]

I'll have a post up tomorrow, sorry, was busy with university starting.

[Substrike22]

I don't remember being on yesterday for more than 5 minutes on my phone, for the record. And I claim Town Watcher. I watched Boberz last night. No one approached him.

[Substrike22]

Well played then.

[Substrike22]

Yeah feel free to post the QT. Everyone else good game.