Mini 1091 Mafia Mania -- Game Over

[Hiraki]

also guys, I am going to try and change my play for this game. I am getting better and better at this game and I would like to try to improve my always reading scummy style. I will more than likely go back to my old ways lol. But yeah, just don' t think I am scummy cuz I am not acting as scummy as usuall LOL.

So yeah

Cool story bro. This just gave me the wrong feeling.

This is not a random vote.

Vote: Moos200x

For already having a wall of scummy, irrelevant information up, claiming you'll be acting less scummy than usual.

Good. We agree.

/confirm

Thanks for reading the 100-page long thread. Not that you can't confirm after votes are placed down, but you didn't vote either. Quite a shame, really.

Vote: Mariyta

I already have some town reads, so keep posting please.

[Hiraki]

This and some strange stuff about town reads and activity he earns my vote.

And this is scummy, why? Did you honestly believe that I could vote one of the people in my post based off of that information, fully knowing that they would most probably be scum?

[Hiraki]

However, I agree with boberz that I would like to know why you're voting Maryayaarera over Moose right now. Moose wagon needs some help. I want pressure, damn it.

Also, Hiraki can you clarify your above argument? What do you mean by "Did you honestly believe...knowing that they would most probably be scum?"

1) I was not 100% sure on Moose. I like RVS. Pressure doesn't really help a lot, and I don't think it's required. At least FMPOV. I'll vote someone when they're extremely scummy thank you very much. Perhaps, that helps?

2)From that post, Moose could be notifying someone in a past game, or perhaps he does it in every game. While I doubt it was the latter, or even either, I could not nail that Moose was 100% scum.

Moose

: Can you explain any town reason to place that post?

Did I think it was scummy, yes. Because voting for those people would have been worth more than a vote for a random. Also you avoided creating a wagon with some real pressure in exchange for a random meaningless vote. Atleast when I avoided the wagon (rightly or wrongly) I exchanged it for a real case and a real point.

This is true. I had never thought of it this way. Again, I don't like applying pressure, and just randomly voted. I guess it would've been more helpful to vote Moose.

You seriously think I care what anyone of you three has to say? I MAKE SCUMMY POSTS all game, get used to it. Or just tunnel me until day 3 when I am finally lynched and everyone bitches at me for ruining the game. Been there done that.

This is yucky.

[Hiraki]

Because pressure on scummy players to determine their allignment is such a bad thing.

I still stand by it being useless. While you may believe the opposite, I don't. Therefore, I don't pressure.

Not really good enough hiraki. A random vote is useless, you cant have an RVS just because you fancy it.

Aware. We are on Page 1. I don't see the point of getting out of RVS too quickly, just because Moose posted something that's slightly scummy.

Not only that but despite accepting that a random vote was not appropriate you do not move your vote.

That was forgetfulness on my part.

Unvote

Hmmmm I wonder what I do now, seems like half of you are ready to lynch me I said I want to improve my game. Makes no sense to me.

Sort of, but I guess I'll explain it.

But yeah, just don' t think I am scummy cuz I am not acting as scummy as usuall LOL.

Unless you can find a town motivation to post this, I can only see scum saying this.

It doesn't look like we're going to get anywhere good from Moose. So, BW. Wheee.

Vote: Moose

[Hiraki]

Hiraki, you go from moose being only slightly scummy and pressure being a bad thing. To shamelessly bandwagonning moose in a sentence or two.

...Not really.

Hiraki we never had an RVS, that is why I am scolding you for a random vote.

Who are you to say that there was no RVS? Not to mention, if it is a random vote, why should you care about it? In fact, why is it scummy, rather than null?

If you disagree with me (and most other people) over pressure atleast explain why. And the page we are on matters not.

Pressure only works in Newbie Games and/or with new players, and even in that case, it doesn't work well. And, yes it does.

For the record all, moose is always like this, so be careful I am not trying to slow the wagon just making sure people are aware of the meta.

From what I read, this is true. However, I rarely use Meta to base a case, or to defend.

As for who I think is scum..... um.... nobody yet. Nothing seems fishy. Superstar or whatever that guys name is he tunnled me hard for no reason, that wasnt normal.

I did the same thing. Why am I not scum. Also, how in the world was he tunneling you?

Could you possibly rephrase that sentence? Just...re-say what you mean in different words.

I need to know why voting Mariyta was scummier than voting someone who I talked. I don't see why it is, seeing that I don't believe that pressure works(at least most of the time), and because I wasn't sure if any of the people that I talked about were scum. I do believe that there is a greater possibility for Moosescum now, so that's why I'm voting. Ignoring questions isn't helping either.

If Hikari doesn't buy wagons as good scum hunting tools I'm interested to know how he makes decisions, but that's probably a better conversation for after the game

Not liking Pressure=/= Not liking Wagons

Wagons tell a lot, and don't need to have pressure on them. They are great scum hunting finds, but I find posts to be a more reliable source.

Take for example, the way moose has been acting since I started putting pressure on. Favorite post by far (behind the confirmation post) has to be

I highly doubt Moose would say something different if people FoS'd him, rather than Voted him. I guess you could call that applying some form of pressure, but I hope you get what I mean. This isn't too abnormal from what we've already seen from him.

My biggest suspicion at the moment is FoS: Hiraki as having town-tells in 6 posts seems like a quick/early cover up to me.

You find me worthy of suspicion due to having Town-Tells? Well. Um. I guess that's a personal thing, because I don't really think there's anything there. But w/e. FoS' are worthless in any case.

Seriously though, you seem WAAAY to keen to get this wagon going against Moose.

He's voting me, btw. At least, I'm pretty sure. If Boberz is voting Moose, I will be annoyed.

How can I find scum when there is no content besides me defending myself or being attacked

Those things called "eyes" are useful, y'know. Honestly, this is crap. First off, when have you ever defended yourself? Second off, am I not being attacked then? Is Boberz not being attacked?

Being pro-town is good. You are trying to look pro-town.

Explain this, please.

[Hiraki]

moose200x wrote:Being pro-town is good. You are trying to look pro-town.

Imploring someone to scum hunt over and over is not being pro-town. He is trying to apper town.

So then you believe he is scum?

[Hiraki]

If Moose isn't scum, AntB is. Larger post later.

[Hiraki]

I'm not interested in the Moose200x bandwagon. Actually, I'm pretty sure he's town from the way he's been posting. The inital 'change' post during confirmations is a non-tell, especially for someone like Moose200x. Questioning that post is a nice way to break away from the RVS, nothing more.

Using Meta to confirm someone as town.

Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Would you mind sharing these town reads with us?

I share them indirectly.

What do you think we can gain from a prolonged RVS?

Considering that Substrike broke RVS on one of the first 10 posts of D1, we never had a true RVS that had meaning. Therefore, if we prolong the RVS, which in your post(to me at least) seems like I'm making a mediocre RVS go to a huge RVS, but I digress.

RVS can tell a lot. People, who dislike RVS to the point of murder, are people I don't like. RVS can be sex some games, and it could be the old point of tomfoolery the next. Whatever the case, itsa good.

"really" yes really, so now answer properly.

Considering there was no question, and it was a bland statement on my play, that is quite the misrepresentation...

...

(b")b

because you had two slight scum reads at the time, and the game was kicking into gear.

But that's not the point. If it was a random vote, you shouldn't care about it. It can't be scummy because you know it was a random vote, and you knew that I had suspicions already. The problem was that I wasn't sure one of the people who had already posted in the game were scum.

s I said if you insist on this discussion explain why rather than just asserting your belief on us.

I explained it to the best of my abilities. There is no right answer. There's only a preference.

so you agree with me on the meta but it is invalid because???

No, I agreed that you were using Meta. It is invalid because clearing someone of being town by meta is horrible. This person looks scummy. I'm not going to argue on previous experiences that this is why this person is scummy, I'm going to argue why this person is scummy at the present moment.

Guys read this and then tell me why we are not wagonning this guy, it is awful. You cannot give two scum reads, however small, then vote randomly. And proffes utter bemusement at being called out on it.

First off, you butchered my name, but I don't really care about that. Just caught my attention.

Second off, that is your opinion. I did give two scum reads, being small, and did vote randomly. Do I think it was a townie move? Not necessarily. Do I think it was a move that started discussion? In some ways, yes. Do I think it was a scummy move? No, not in the least. Null? Most probably.

The only reasoning that you have that it's scummy, is because I voted someone not in my post. Psst. It's still Page 1 there.

Lets be clear you didnt we all know that, whether it is scummy or not is a matter of opinion.

But in fact Boberz, I do.

Also miyaki stop trying to goad everyone into theory discussion, re pressure, RVS, FOS and no doubt others. It is really anti town.

Au contraire. You're the one who disputed my random vote to be scummy. While I will take the blame for Pressure, there is absolutely nothing about FoS in this thread that I have said. This is a horrible accusation.

... wow...

I find no reason why you needed to comment on this. If you honestly can't see the sarcasm in this, I feel sorry for you.

More foul language and not much else.

Foul Language isn't a scum tell. Anger isn't a huge one either.

I lold again. Either he cba to read because he knows who scum are or is genuinely a bad player making him a greater liability.

I'll agree to this. However, I'll only agree to this.

Here's the problems that I find to AntB's case.

First off, and this is the minor part, AntB seems to say everything that everyone else has seem to said in a neat way, and in one post. While this is small because Moose is scummy, and he makes one new(small) point, I'd still like to include it.

Second off, AntB's scum tells. Anger isn't a scumtell, first off. Second off, I don't believe in pressure working well with other players than new players, so I could see him being legitimately frustrated or such. Third off, the constant repetition of noting foul language. While this is a small tell on both sides of our argument, there are loads of people that use swear words constantly, and act like they were normal.

Third, the posts that AntB ignores. For starters, he ignores the basis of the lynch, Post #1. While this was made conscious or not, this is a bit worrying to me.

Post #7. This should be a huge part of everyone's case that's on the Moose lynch. However, AntB wants to ignore it. I mean, this is the basis why I find him scummy. Then again, I don't make the rules about why a person is scummy, however, I know that AntB's tells are worthless.

Post #10. Moose here says that he isn't sure if anyone is scum. AntB doesn't seem to care about this.

...

Yuck.

Post#11. While AntB didn't miss this post in terms of posting, he did miss the complete and utter point about it. Moose makes a valid, but small point. Bob did have his post on me, while wanting to apply pressure to Moose. It doesn't really work that well.

Post #13. Like Post #11, AntB didn't miss this post, but found it scummy in his report. This isn't scummy. This is just borderline trolling and/or making a joke. Personally, it made me laugh for a moment, I doubt that was Bob's reaction though.

I think this is very important to note. I will also have to agree with "can you please share" I want to know what is going on in your head.

No.

Who said it would be a mislynch? I am not a policy lyncher.

Moose would need to call it a mislynch if he knew he was town, no?

[Hiraki]

Prod: Dekes, Mariyita

[Hiraki]

Mariyta is not due for a prod (even by request) until tomorrow morning.

Yuck.

What??? If you believe in that why would you vote for some random person instead? Why would you vote in all when in our last game you were so adamant against doing so early on?

Btw. this confirms Lateralus scum or Substrike scum. /animepun

First off, I explained it quite clearly in the post. Call it it an FoS if you want. I was not ready to vote either of the two suspects, therefore, I voted randomly.

Stupid theory is stupid. YOU SHOULD KNOW BETTER. Oddly enough here's a game where moose cracked as scum under pressure. Not the greatest reactions by town, but you know what I mean. Late vote feels weird though. Why exactly now instead of earlier, was it just the spur of the moment. Did you feel boberz pressure you into this?

First off, thank you for proving my point about Meta, since I was too lazy to care about it.

Second off, I just posted my opinions. I don't like pressure. Not my fault. I didn't start the fire. Of course, if I wanted to get rid of it I could, but then I'd be scummy, no? (lolonlyscumcareaboutbeinscummy)

Third, no. It was mostly the last quote that drove me into voting Moose.

Post #51: Yeah, qft. Hiraki should explain his early town reads.

Only on Tuesdays!

Post #89 (Hiraki): Wha???? No. Tell us what town reads you got from the early pages or die.

So this confirms Lateralus22scum and Substrike-town. /animepunpt2

Post #89 (Hiraki): Really confused why Hiraki has a RVS fetish. This never occurred last game when I literally ripped RVS's throat out early on. You even told me then you then you didn't like moving your vote around and considered it anti town! Why is that behavior not present here?

You have to change your tactics someday that you realize they don't work as efficiently anymore. Besides, surprise is the ultimate weapon.

I did not confirm Moose200x as town. I also didn't use meta to form my townread on him. I merely stated that the 'change' post should not be interpreted as a scumtell coming from someone like Moose200x.

...Yes you did.

Actually, I'm pretty sure he's town from the way he's been posting.

Same quote with the bold.

Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

I was called on a contradiction, there was no contradiction I never said the bit in bold, that was hiraki adding stuff into my quote in bold. Why he did this I dont know.

Where did I do this?

Picked up prod, just got home, 3 a.m., got snowed in, post tomorrow. Good night everyone.

Le
Soupir

I think probably the two scummiest players are moose and Beefster. moose mainly for his "excuse the fact that I am scummy" confirm post, Beefster for his response to boberz answer to Beefster's vote.

Way to BW. Not like it's bad, but y'know.

Sigh.

@ Hiraki, in post 89, when you're citing AntB's stuff at the bottom, how did you generate those post numbers? I tried reading the game with both with him in Iso and with everyone viewable and the post numbers weren't lining up. Just trying to follow your argument.

Those are his posts numbers for Moose's ISO. It's in order and stuff. >___>

For the record: I disagree with everyone saying Hiraki needs to share his town reads. I think he does need to throw his top 2-3 scum reads up, past Moos, and reasons for them.

Oh. Hmm. Well, AntB I've already covered. I'm not too convinced on the Beefster case, but I'll have to read it up more, it doesn't look that convincing, to be quite honest. Fuck it. I'll do this in a different post, I'm just getting these off the top of my head now.

@Sub: No, Hiraki is sharing his past reads. There is absolutely no reason not to because that was page 1, any "danger" that could possibly arise would be mute because his reasoning is probably outdated. It seems to be a trend now, can we not post empty statements of having reads and not explaining them? Or ya know, you could explain them too if you feel the need to post part of them.

FFS. FINE. TUESDAY ISN'T HERE YET. BUT IT'S GONEEEEEE WITH THE WINNDDDDDDD TO THURSDAY.

VOTE: Mr Wright

Just what are you insinuating?

Note that these reads are old, and became outdated after my analysis on AntB.

MrWright, at this point, just voted him. I

really

can't see Scum making such an odd move. So he gets Town Points.

VOTE: AntB

http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=4571132
You have the wrong one Mr. Wright! He is clearly impersonating me!

(and sadly, with that, I must be off to work :/ be back in 9ish hours)

Scum don't do this either. That would create a BW on Page 1. The only one at this point that I haven't got a read on, due to only posting an RVS Vote is Mr. Wright.

Yes, I'm aware these are weak Town reads, however, back then they were better than nothing.

So take that peeps that thought I would actually lie about Town Reads. You lose all cookies.

Boberz's post is interesting. I'll need to read it a bit more, per se.

P.E.

Lateralus: He already said it. (b")b

[Hiraki]

Elaborate. Is this a serious point? I can't tell.

FFS. I put /animepun for a reason. You have a Ryuk Avatar, he has L.

LAUGH DAMNIT.

Voting for a random person instead of someone you have suspicions on = More effective play?

More effective RVS.

Why are you getting so sarcastic and nasty with your replies to me? This didn't happen before, does your personality change on a game-to-game basis?

I don't believe I was that nasty. I did increase the sarcasm in that post though a little, I won't lie.

Boberz, I have absolutely no clue what you're saying. I might be getting a bit tired, but honestly, what I just saw you write makes no sense to me.

@AntB: Touche. I did not even realize that. You and your Ant usernames screwin' up my town reads.

[Hiraki]

Oh, okay. I see what you mean. I meant that I didn't do it after you asked me to, which I didn't. If I did I apologize, I made that wall specifically that way because of your request. I usually do bold in quotes. You can check my previous games for that.

[Hiraki]

Sorry for the inactivity, I've been a bit busy this weekend. Just saying that I should have a post up by tonight.

[Hiraki]

I'd be willing to concede to the Ryuk and ask Hiraki to share some of his reasoning for the D1 declaration of town reads, mainly due to the fact that I'd imagine that Hiraki's reads have shifted in some way by now.

There's no real reason why I added them. I just declared them because I could. I guess in hindsight I should've said nothing at this point, but what's done is what's done.

To be quite honest, I'm keeping with this trend of not revealing information. It's quite informative. Ironically, it's also informative for me not to tell you why it is so. inb4raeg

Mistake rather than misrep. However you did rather avoid the point. You failed to adequately respond to my attack.

You want me to respond to something that isn't a valid argument with reasoning? I don't think it is a valid argument. Therefore, it's not, to me. It can't get much better than that. Not to mention, it's not an attack either, if I recall correctly, so nice job there.

But that's not the point.

Link this. I have no clue where this is from.

I did no such thing. I didnt even stop attacking him.

But the point is, is that you used meta to make him look a little townie. What's the point.

THis was the theory element of what you said. Hiraki made more than one reference to FOSs in iso post 4.

Because I was totally trying to start an argument on theory there. I was merely stating my opinions on FoS'. They are stupid.

Exactly, that is not theory. Going into when RVS should end in a broad way as you did is not game relevant.

Apparently I ended RVS then? Well, obviously, I don't believe I did.

The thread has proved that to be absolute crap. It is evident that both of you have felt pressured, admittedly you dealt with it infinitely better than moose.

Prove it. Show a difference. To be quite honest, the two votes that have been fluctuating over me haven't really pressured me at all. If you call 2 votes pressure, I'm quite amused.

I found it hilarious. You cant afford to get annoyed with people so if you feel they are losing control, acting off emotion or trolling then you know you are winning the argument.

True, but you never know if you're actually winning. At least toward your side.

Not really he could call it a lynch without adding mislynch to it. Considering how loose moose has been with claiming scum elsewhere I see little reason why he should feel the need to be allignment specific here. It just felt awkward I think.

I had never thought it that way. Perhaps that is a suprisingly good point. In any case, it is still a small good point.

Having town-reads so early on set alarm bells ringing straight away, the fact he's only just elaborated on them and with them being so MINOR and even WRONG makes me think there's something else going on. He dissects my attack on moose while himself maintaining a vote for him. There is an air of scum but nothing to cause concern as of yet.

1. I am quite aware they were minor. Minor reactions differentiate scum from town in the end, no?

2. Just because you attack someone that I think is scum, doesn't mean that you can't be scum. Your case was horrible. Admit it.

I want to stop here now, sorry. I need to re-read these pages, then I'll commit myself to making a really good post of my opinions on this page. Especially about Beefster. I'm getting hassled here, so expect this post on the weekend. Even when I tried writing this post for the first time, it was somewhat impossible, due to me being extremely busy.

[Hiraki]

I need one more day. Today is too hectic, but trust me, if content doesn't come by tomorrow, you can label me as actively lurking.