Mini 1091 Mafia Mania -- Game Over

[Lateralus22]

Post #22 (Hiraki): What??? If you believe in that why would you vote for some random person instead? Why would you vote in all when in our last game you were so adamant against doing so early on?

Post #31 (moose 200x): Get over yourself. No one cares. You're not as bad as you think you are and you do have some legitimate scum hunting ability. Think back to Newbie 1000 except without the fake pr claim. You were able to atleast identify some player interactions. Who's scum and why, really that's about all I ask.

Post #36 (Hiraki): Stupid theory is stupid. YOU SHOULD KNOW BETTER. Oddly enough here's a game where moose cracked as scum under pressure. Not the greatest reactions by town, but you know what I mean. Late vote feels weird though. Why exactly now instead of earlier, was it just the spur of the moment. Did you feel boberz pressure you into this?

Post #37 (Mariyta): Why is this scummy?

Post #47 (boberz): If you think moose should have more votes why aren't you voting him?

Post #51: Yeah, qft. Hiraki should explain his early town reads.

Post #67: Nah this is pro-town, scum hunting = good.

Post #69: Stupid vote. Townies need to react and be pro-active to find scum. Why are you discouraging this? Where is he being over defensive?

Post #71 (Mr Wright): I did not notice that contradiction from Boberz. How the hell can you say the game never had an RVS when you blatantly said you shouldn't get out of RVS that quickly?

Post #89 (Hiraki): Wha???? No. Tell us what town reads you got from the early pages or die.

Post #89 (Hiraki): Really confused why Hiraki has a RVS fetish. This never occurred last game when I literally ripped RVS's throat out early on. You even told me then you then you didn't like moving your vote around and considered it anti town! Why is that behavior not present here?

Post #92 (Beefster): Lol… more beefy goodness… You really gotta stop with the failtastic votes/reasoning. Knock off the smear campaign or in the very least address his actual point.

Quick Questions upon reading.

Who does {LordChronos; Mariyta; LordChronos; Dekes} think is scum and why. Seriously… who the hell are you guys.

What does {Substrike22; Beefster; Mr Wright} think about the game in general? I've glossed over your posts and I'd like a nice concise version of your current thoughts.

Quick thoughts

Only remember a few people from my speed read. Not good. boberz looks mostly pro-town atm, Hiraki feels weird but gonna hold off for now. moose is average. He has some townie and scum characteristics from our previous games >.>

And that should leave...

Vote: Beefster

Post #92 guys, Post #92.

[Lateralus22]

Ah nvm, thought it was you not his response. People online should answer my question.

[Lateralus22]

@Sub: No, Hiraki is sharing his past reads. There is absolutely no reason not to because that was

page 1

, any "danger" that could possibly arise would be mute because his reasoning is probably outdated. It seems to be a trend now, can we not post empty statements of having reads and not explaining them? Or ya know, you could explain them too if you feel the need to post part of them.

You were overdefensive in claiming that you were overattacking rather than overdefending. In that sense you dug your hole deeper. I'm also not liking the way you've reacted to the votes on you. You have something to lose, don't you?

Oh my.

Let's look at this example.

Person A: You are scum because your user name is in bold!

Person B

: What, my username is in italics, there's nothing wrong with that!
Person A: Die Bold demon from the netherlands!

Now how is

boberz

possibly

scum

for being

overdefensive

when he wasn't? Your logic has failed, what you're accusing of boberz of doing is not only false and your justification for him being over defensive isn't really so.

More votes on Beefster-scum please.

Preview Edit

: Chronos is right, Town reads are tech. Though I'd say keep majority to yourself/not post empty claims of having them unless it's good to put them out.

[Lateralus22]

Moose, who do you think is scum and why?

[Lateralus22]

Btw. this confirms Lateralus scum or Substrike scum. /animepun

Elaborate. Is this a serious point? I can't tell.

You have to change your tactics someday that you realize they don't work as efficiently anymore. Besides, surprise is the ultimate weapon.

Voting for a random person instead of someone you have suspicions on = More effective play?

First off, thank you for proving my point about Meta, since I was too lazy to care about it.

Prove what? That scum don't crack under pressure? Cuz yeah know… the link…

Second off, I just posted my opinions. I don't like pressure. Not my fault. I didn't start the fire. Of course, if I wanted to get rid of it I could, but then I'd be scummy, no? (lolonlyscumcareaboutbeinscummy)

Why are you getting so sarcastic and nasty with your replies to me? This didn't happen before, does your personality change on a game-to-game basis?

[Lateralus22]

Why? What was it about the hiraki case that didnt take off, I have been pushing it hard but nobody seemed to like the look of it. The lack of wagon here makes me even moire suspicious of hiraki.

Personal experience makes me feel uneasy, in a recent game I spent majority of my time attacking him and assuming he was scum for his early play so I doubt my ability atm to evaluate his play well.

@AntB:

moose is still meh. Don't think his OMGUS and claiming scum is actually scummy. It's a very natural reaction

What do you AntB and Beefster think about Hiraki?

Mod: Could we have a vote count?

[Lateralus22]

...the fact he's only just elaborated on them and with them being so MINOR and even WRONG makes me think there's something else going on.

Can you elaborate on this, why is it strange for it to be minor and why do you think his reasoning is wrong? Do you have a scum read on those town reads he presented?

He dissects my attack on moose while himself maintaining a vote for him

Totally missed out on this, can you link to it? Why do you feel attacking your case on yet keeping his vote would not be a cause of concern?

[Lateralus22]

And [sarcasm]I have a scum-read on myself[/sarcasm].

Bleh, glazed over it fast. Still interested in what you think of though Ant_to_the_max.

As Moose is at L-3 I would suggest two more people move to lynch to put moose at L-1. I wish to see mooses reaction to being on the executioners block.

Looks to me like your just trying to bully him into emotionally breaking down. How has moose cracked? And no, his "BS" doesn't cut it.

Note: Need moar content from some people. {Mariyta ; Dekes ; Ant_to_the_max ; Mr Wright ; moose200x}

Mr Wright

: Why did you want to discuss moose but then ignore him for the rest of the game afterwards? Really the only expected responsed would be "yeah, he's anti-town but town" or "yeah, he's scummy scum" but it'd revolve more towards his play style and we'd get nowhere. Wouldn't including moose for player interactions as a legit member of the game be better? Who do you still have your RVS vote on?

Ant_to_the_max

: What's your opinion of Beefster's/moose's alignment? Did you leave your vote on AntB because you do think he's scum or did just not feel like taking it off?

Moose:

Place a vote down please.

Everyone else who's done little

: Do something.

[Lateralus22]

EBWOP:

Why

do you still have your RVS vote on? (@Ant_to_the_max)

[Lateralus22]

ebwop: No that's aimed towards Mr Wright not Ant_ >.>

Gotta stop posting at 1 AM >.>

[Lateralus22]

It displeases me that Moos' wagon is dead. But, fine.

Cuz voting the guy who isn't here is totally going to spring forth another wagon amright? How can possibly disregard your suspicion of moose at the drop of a hat when you were so eager to see his lynch? You're not looking for scum, you're looking for easy targets.

Unvote;
Vote: Substrike22

[Lateralus22]

I'm talking about Dekes.

moose, vote someone in your next post please.

[Lateralus22]

Or we have a week and a half 'til deadline and if we're not going to lynch moose, I want information. Try again.

"I don't feel like hunting for scum so I'll lynch random people for info!!"

. This is nothing more than a sorry blanket excuse for your lack of scum hunting.

[Lateralus22]

What's ++ mean?

[Lateralus22]

Doubt moose's claim. In newbie 1000 moose fake claimed pr and in the end he showed very real regret towards this, what seperates moose from the standard vi is that he at least sometimes does try to play this game in a conventional way. The thing is though moose does understand how pr works and that's it's bad to claim for the sake of.

But, last time I played with him his play was just fluff posting and he turned out to be scum, which contrasts that he actually does put a bit of effort as town. tbtw I have no idea why moose wouldn't see a VC when NS is dancing around throwing out several vote counts.

I feel like this game is being stalled by the lack of cases/defendents putting lazy posts into this game.

[Lateralus22]

Gotta catch up later, on skim two things. Why does Beefster assume scum will automatically nk moose? A similar situation has happened before personally and it was devastating for the town.

Moose is not playing to his to his town meta, he has done NOTHING this whole game.

[Lateralus22]

Moose, are you the SK or scum?

[Lateralus22]

I believe he might be terrorist

LOL, sorry, I digress.

Should have something up now.

[Lateralus22]

Yeah... working on that post, quick notes though. Feel a bit better about moose, for now I don't care much because if he is scum we'll get him easily. If not obviously we can confirm his vigness.

He's the abridged version of a plan I thought up. We should

all

vote for the vig selection tonight. Atleast a

9/12

majority. This is essentially a second townie lynch a the HUGE majority will greatly place more power in townie hands. Debating with myself whether it should be Beefster or a lurker, leaning on the latter. Here's the thing, since the kill doesn't affect the mislynch ratio an information kill is better.

Thoughts? I'm leaning on Mr Wright's replacement slot unless they come in an be uber pro-town.

Please say

For

or

Against

if you agree, moose, are you willing to agree? I'm sure the 9/12 ratio should clear about most complaints about any power scum'll have PLUS any arguments here's are going to be more straightforward and honest.

Fixed tag. ~~NS

[Lateralus22]

#229 (Beefster)

: Hated this post so much. 1st paragraph is contradicting because of this post where he specifically asked moose what he was hiding. There was no buddeying, he was obviously trying to wrap his mind around moose considering he was an erratic player. I agree with what boberz said about Hiraki now, I've waited way too long on this issue and his play was just scummy.

#231 (brokenscrap

): I agree in general about moose full claiming. Pretty much qtf about Mariyta.

#237 (Mari)

: The line about quick lynches feels off. Only an idiot would risk doing that and more often than not it'd be scum motivated. I like the concern against Beefster though the linking point feels like an overreaction to me.

#239 (Beefster)

: Oh God... first off WIFOM isn't a scum tell, second off you're also guilty of it yourself with the moose getting nk'ed buiseness.
Remember when I mentioned moose fake claiming in another game? During that game the cop ending up dying the first night and the Doc wasted a protect on moose. Then the Doc made himself obvios the next day and moose got mislynched as a VT. Doc was killed the next night, not cuz he was obvios but during this time scum was able to blend in and the town lost.

The rhetorical line about your cutting the crap comment feels off. If you want moose to stop then why not say it bluntly, in a straight forward way?

And what do you mean "possible" buddeying? You can't even tell if it's buddeying or not and you're using thta as point? PS: Buddeying isn't a scum tell. Quick note: Should have been blunt about it, why are you so confident in moose dying tonight?

#243 (Beefster)

: Moose is consistently posting and participating in other games.

#254 (Dekes)

: Pretty much qft

#260 (boberz?)

: Much clearer post. One thing is can you point where he specifically says he doesn't believe in his own theories?

#255 (werewolf)

: Er what? Scummy as hell comment, not judging your precedior is stupid and the two of you have the same role. Fuck I can think of a game where newbie scum gave himself away easily yet the town lost due to having a nice clean replacement coming in on that spot.

#256 (Dekes)

: Awful, werewolf made a perfectly legitimate post and case against Beefster. Only thing that I would complain about is that Iso's are generally an awful way to scum hunt and they take things out of context. I do like his particular point in #247, I doubt Beefster's use of rhetoric claim.

#281 (Mari)

: Don't like the tunnel accusation, feels like an attempt to discredit boberz without responding to his arguements directly.

#285 (moose)

: This is actually a really good reason

not

to vig either of them. Think of it like this, you've already outed yourself as the vig and scum'll know you have the power the kill them. I think it'd make

way

more sense for them as scum to back off and hope you don't try to shoot them. Both these guys get town points from me.

#316 (boberz)

: meh, I get what you mean. Probably shouldn't have suggested it due to too many flaws.

#329 (werewolf)

: Oh God. I like his original case but now it just looks like he's trying to discredit people for the sake of with his sheeping comment when there's been legit cases against his slot.

#336 (Beefster)

: Oh bull shit. You know this AntB wagon isn't going anywhere. Don't see what's wrong with AntB's post.

#354 (Mari)

: Well, this is hypocritical. Didn't you make a big fuss about connections yet now you're making one with boberz and Beefster?

#370 (brokenscraps)

: Did you miss the memo? Moose already declared to the heaven's that he will be the one to kill boberz. Assuming moose isn't scum, scum already know his target.

#384 (Beefster)

: Eh I kinda get what you mean now about AntB. I do not support a boberz vig at all.

tl;dr: Beef/werewolf/Mari are all awful. If anyone thinks boberz is scum I'd like to see a case.

Unvote:
Vote: werewolf

Conflicted between him and Beef, but his later play is just as bad.

[Lateralus22]

Will switch over to Beef in a few hours if no one votes wolf.

That is all.

[Lateralus22]

And now it's time to claim.

[Lateralus22]

AntB, did you just ask moose to shoot you?

[Lateralus22]

Beef, were you scum?

[Lateralus22]

Will read up sometime, what's the case against AntB?

[Lateralus22]

no dont prod lat,

yeah yeah il get something soon

[Lateralus22]

I refuse to make a big nice catch up post today, simply because, I don't feel like it. I'm only active/serious in about 2 games, the rest I'm actually neglecting.

scum = Ant_Max/Sub/AntB,
moose claim is overrated, he's got a killing role and what he did was pro-town so doubt he's scum.

AntB, how do you feel about town reads?

[Lateralus22]

Meh. Another night of going to sleep at 4 AM and waking up at 6 Am lol. Fuck this shit.

Ant_Max

is scum for an awful case on Substrike. His argument that Sub wanted to lay low is fundamentally wrong because Sub did no such thing, he tunneled moose into the ground the whole time. He called for his lynch early on, this isn't the play of someone lying low.

Can't remember any mindless shipping of opinions so I'll need links for that but regardless, agreeing != scum. Don't see the slowly pushing the Beef wagon because at the beginning of the game he moose was the top dog wagon, with Sub riding on top. Did a quick search through his Iso and I don't see him slowly adding on the suspicion but continuing to push the moose one over instead. In the end he voted Beef because he was forced by the deadline.

I don't see why scum sub would get defensive over moose shooting boberz if he's his partner. Scum distance themselves more often than not from each other, not scream at someone holding a gun to save their life. The moose interactions actually make me pause and reconsider my read because doing that as scum would be essentially a death wish since moose is a loose cannon. What is your argument for boberz scum?

Rat

Rat has been absolutely useless in the time he spent here. I hate how much he tunnels on moose because he's a bad player, calling for his mod kill is ridiculous. There isn't any pro-town motivation for this when he's a known pr.

#355: Still going after moose. Moose's play during the night was incredibly pro-town so I believe his claim. This is just a policy lynch. Refer back to the mod kill point.

#544: This is weak. This isn't rl where people are constantly screaming nonstop, this isn't even a dram game where people are posting literally every second. This reads as an excuse ESPECIALLY IIRC when he came in he was the one who re-introduced the moose drama. Why couldn't he simply bring up someone else if he had a problem with the amount of focus on player?

#570: This doesn't make sense at all. What's the scum motivation for distancing day 1 then instantly becoming "chummy chummy"? Feels like you're adding buzz words to make this observation into a scum tell.

#571: Oh hey. This is kinda better actually.

#574: Huh. Seems like you're also guilty of faulty observations. I don't see how boberz was simply riding wagons at all. He was the one who brought up the Hiraki case early on when no one was jumping onto him. I can't see the town thought process behind this, there's no actual explanation that switches towards "only trying to lynch people" and feels like a hollow statement. I don't see how Beefster was just a bad player, I can't recall this but have you actually said this on Day 1 or is this some great revelation you're having now?

#583 (AntB): Fluff post actually. There's a lot of text to support his observation which is normally good but it's useless in this context because boberz already admitted to his claim before. I don't understand if you're saying bobber + Mari scum because when scum buddy it's towards townies, not their actual partners. My main problem with this post is that it looks like he's doing a lot, but really isn't.

Actually I'm more fond of Ant_Max/Rat scum with AntB/Sub as room for error.

Vote: Rat

[Lateralus22]

...? What is your point then?

[Lateralus22]

lol lateralus22, that is one hollow 'case' you have there, it smells more like omgus to me for having called you out for lurking. how come you have made no mention of my criticism of moose until this point, eh? i think lat22 is freaking out because i have basically called out all three members of the scumteam (boberz, mariyta, and lateralus22). my vote is staying on boberz since i am most confident that he is scum at this point, with lat in 2nd and mariyta 3rd. i'd really like to hear opinions from moose and substrike about what has been going on recently.

Hello. OMGUS = Voting for you for no reason. I'v layed out multiple of your posts and explained why they're scummy. I'm not freaking out at all and you've tried to discredit my post but you haven't actually commented on any of it so I don't even know if you read it. There is no town motivation for that at all, if I'm so wrong about you need to explain why.

@Ant_Max

Ok, so the whole case boils down,

Sub = Pushing moose, called Chronos out for active lurking and hinted at a Beefster suspicion coupled along with defending boberz.

2 Things I'm trying to understand,

1) Do you expect him to vote for someone who is not their highest suspicion and vote/push for smaller secondaries instead?
2) Still don't see boberz scum, you need to spell this out for me.

Give me your thoughts on Rat plz, along with everyone else.

[Lateralus22]

mhm, interesting stuff, debating with myself whether to believe Rat's claim because I seriously doubt two protection roles. (Moose being the Jack of All Trades effectively makes him like, a super role)

[Lateralus22]

Unvote

For now,

[Lateralus22]

Moose do you swear you're the Jack of All trades? This is SUPER important to determining if Rat is scum.

[Lateralus22]

Why didn't you protect boberz?

[Lateralus22]

You would already know if he targeted him by the lack of kill no?

[Lateralus22]

imo boberz has been one of the most pro-town players so far and i think his loss would be bad for the town. im hoping moose will get modkilled so that the lynch could be for someone who seems solidly scum, but i doubt this will happen.

?????

[Lateralus22]

Thought it over, I don't agree with Ant_Max's specific points but after clarification I can see the pro-town thought process behind his posts so he gets knocked off the suspect list for now. Whoever said it is right, The rat claim will sort itself out later. IIRC the stats for protection roles GREATLY outnumber games without them so the claim makes some sense, I can dig up the statistics if needed.

Meaning now I'm left with just AntB/Sub. I barely remember anything AntB but whenever I think of sub I get conflicted with my early read on how he continued to go after easy targets and then figured scum wouldn't actually be ballsy enough to face a vig threat. The scum I remember with decent points against him has a higher priority than the one where I need pay some attention to articulate my thoughts.

Plus come on, I realize this is slightly hypocritical of me but lurking now when we've got a doctor claim? Unacceptable. I'm waging my bets on BP scum which completely explains his suicidal behavior yesterday.

Substrike, Claim cuz I'm willing to hammer.

[Lateralus22]

• hasn't been on either wagon so far, potentially keeping his head down.
  
• was willing to hammer substrike, but then vanished without a trace.
  
• builds a case on rat then slips a post from me in there seemingly as part of his case
  
• "I'm only active/serious in about 2 games, the rest I'm actually neglecting." -Translation-> "I'm lurking and here's my cover".
  
• ISO 24: "Will read up sometime" ISO25: "yeah yeah il get something soon" ISO26: "I refuse to make a big nice catch up post today, simply because, I don't feel like it"

VOTE: Lateralus' Slot

@NS: Requesting prod on Lateralus22

1. Day 2's just started, it's 2:33 AM. Vote comes till when I'm not sleep deprieved.
2. This is bull shit. The point against you had nothing to wasn't against rat and I was just too lazy to label it correctly.
3. I just replaced out of one of my games because I got so far behind. Go ahead an verify how active I am in my other games.
4. This is mudslinging, ESPECIALLY because I did make my catch up post/case voted and was very active then.

[Lateralus22]

wwas willing to hammer substrike, but then vanished without a trace.

Missed this one when numbering, Just look at the time slots he was hammered about half a day later. I didn't even get a chance to look at the thread until after he was hammered.

[Lateralus22]

It's been 5 days...?

Regardless Answer my posts instead of commenting about my activity, I'm here now.

[Lateralus22]

Dude, Day 2 started on the 15, it's the 17th now my time. You aren't looking for scum, you are litterally attacking me SOLELY on my activity, to the point where it doesn't make ANY sense because the night is 3 days.

[Lateralus22]

Again, look at the time slots, I know I asleep when Sub made his claim, I can't even remember if I was asleep during the exact time boberz hammer but I remember that I didn't check the thread the thread at all. This game wasn't my highest priority then.

Regarding replacing out, if you are critisicing my activity and saying my reasoning is only an excuse why aren't you willing to verify it?

The time reference is that I'm fucking tired, and proper posting comes when I'm not.

Lurking is a null tell. When I got back into the game I posted loads of content and participated in the discussion and corrected the problem. You are ignoring this.

[Lateralus22]

Wait, he was lynched on Wednesday, I thought it was a weekend. I was at school that time meaning it was impossible for me to even go onsite.

[Lateralus22]

Please use quotes, they make it easier to read.

I asked that question SPECIFICALLY because moose is generally a vi player and I needed him to affirm my read. If he was lying this was his last chance to say so and this was generally an effective way for dealing with these types of players based on how someone else figured out the amount of Protective roles. I can verify which game I'm talking about.

I'm starting to fail understanding you. Are you denying I had lots of content? I feel like you're just spouting out bits of info.

Again, trying to apply lurking as a blanket scum tell is crap. I hardly even vanished, when I came back, I was back.

[Lateralus22]

Wait a sec, why do you think Ant_Max is scum? Moreover why are you planning out when you attack people?

[Lateralus22]

responding to prod, no time to make a serious post on site until Saturday. I support an AntB lynch though, just read my responses/his case and I'll articulate when I can.

[Lateralus22]

heh, Dekes did a great job throughout. If anything gave him away, it was that he literally ONLY bussed/distanced and that he was coasting. boberz I don't really think it's fair to blame the whole town for the loss, they did manage to lynch Sub and it was a mistake for the scum team to let moose's slot live and allow not only a townie to be confirmed, but another scum also.

[Lateralus22]

Soz for replacing out btw, it was due to rl reasons as I replaced out of just about every one of my games since I don't have the time to take them seriously.

[Lateralus22]

Btw Dekes you can post the scum QT if you want. NS any thoughts on the game?

[Lateralus22]

It was very frustrating when everyone yelled at me for lurking and then I wasn't lurking they yelled at me for defending myself when I was busy attacking too.

The RB was unfortunate, normally I freak out when one scum would die but it's ok since Dekes was already in a perfect position. I wanted to bus Sub hard, but I wanted to try and see if I could get a miss lynch Day 2 instead THEN bus the day afterwards.

Actually, in retrospect Dekes and I should have made a more thought out plan for Day 2, had Sub countered Rat ASAP then we would have gotten our miss lynch PLUS we could have killed moose much faster. A simple, miss lynch /= Possible ----> Then start bussing ----> Though have Sub claim pr before the bussing gets hard ----> Then back to miss lynch since Sub had more credibility would have worked out nicely.

A special word of praise for Nobody Special. Absolutely flawless modding. Not a single complaint from me here.
By the way, was there a dead topic, NS?

This

[Lateralus22]

generic pro-town play, everyone else was killing each other.

[Lateralus22]

Yeah, I don't think Subs was trying to be some sort of sneaky secret Agent, he looked to me like he was just lazy and fucking around. You had one good point at the end hence why I choose to put you as town

You would also have probably killed me had I not! =p

[Lateralus22]

Though you were the first townie to come to your senses and actually helped the town towards the right path with the Sub lynch so props for that.

Pre-Edit: Ninja'ed, gimme a sec to read.

[Lateralus22]

Were you right about that game?