Mini 1102 - Rivertown Mafia (Game Over!)

[Furcolow]

yo

[Furcolow]

hi

[Furcolow]

vote: ortiz

without even reading the game
1) i know el simo and can hold him accountable after i read
2) i dislike the first two players on his wagon for being scummy (umbrage, theadmiral)
3) i guess i missed the rvs? so this is me making up for it!

if you all want to lynch me, that's fine, i'm probably over-stretching myself in terms of game-commitment atm

[Furcolow]

listen to yourself.

[Furcolow]

i knew MDZ was scum in that game based upon where he voted, the NK choice, and a particular post
if you iso me, on my last page, i voted him 3 times and i don't believe anyone else whatsoever
i unvoted multiple times, without voting anyone else, simply to revote him again to try to prove a point
i have no reason why kanashimi was acting so scummy as the medic, but i guess that is just how things go sometimes
he actually did a good job of staying under the radar. i wonder if he had been protecting my slot?
since you died, though, i guess we won't know

the fact you died in that newbie game was like *facepalm* for me, because you were the only person who really was actively defending the fact that I was a detective. I was really, really upset about it because in extended mafia games I have only been a detective 3-4 times, and every single time something happens that severely messes with me. In that newbie game it was an early wagon. Hell, I believe it was even you that was like OMG HE'S AT L-2 or something similar when I was really at L-3 or L-4 which I found scummily motivated. For some reason, though, I ended up not taking your buddying to be town and I trusted you wholeheartedly. I felt like we had a nice brolliance like ReaperCharlie tries to create in certain games.

Do you recall me considering MDZ to be scum? I felt him fairly obvious.
I actually maintained reading the game when Haylen/Faraday stepped in, somewhat. I took their interaction to NOT be town on town, and I had the insight as to what Haylen's role was, so I actually would like to pat myself on the back for my reads that game regardless of whether or not I played well (I know I didn't, but that's why I even regressed to try and join a newbie game in general)

If I could play in 50 more newbie games I would. I don't know site policy on this, but I really would. I want to get better at this game in terms of posting and character/personal behavior. My reads and night actions are very, very, very above average. To bring up RC again, as he somewhat said, if I could simply get over my "posting-deficiency" I would be one of the best players on this website.

[Furcolow]

*to be scum on town

[Furcolow]

You brought it up not me. I'm about to vote u if u don't give your thoughts.

[Furcolow]

And u bringing it up makes it ok for me to discuss I wouldn't have linked it...... On a phone posting these last two which OS why they are relatively brief.

[Furcolow]

i'd vote him, and i haven't even read yet (umbrage)
i don't consider that wall pointless, as el simo brought that game up merely a page ago
i just talked about that
i came downstairs because i had to give my fiance something, so i am no longer posting from my phone

I am going to read this game from the start to now after I post in all of my other games. Will probably take around thirty to an hour.


ebwop: i agree with you on that, he was easy to peg

[Furcolow]

ok, time to read this thread

[Furcolow]

*doesn't random vote*

*waits for people to say not random voting is scummy*

*waits for people to say that saying not random voting is scummy is scummy*

saying not random voting is scummy isn't scummy, but saying it the way you said it here just sounds like you're trying to be cute as scum

[Furcolow]

Ah, RVS discussion. *falls asleep*

Anyway, my 'stifling discussion' post spawned more discussion than anything so far, so I'm calling it a success. The scummiest players so far are ThAdmiral and Cyberbob. They come in, vote un-randomly, and disappear. Don't like.

Olinea and chamber have to stop the posting diarrhea. A long and confusing game helps scum. Don't post unless you have something to say. Always have something to say.

thadmiral came in and "voted randomly" you say here... the previous 3 votes HAD BEEN ON YOU, whereas he voted for someone other than you... and he makes your scumlist...

what made you put him on your scumlist in this post #55? I feel this is distancing, umbrage.

[Furcolow]

I'm starting to develop a ping on my scumdar in Oritz's direction. I feel like the vote on him was more serious than it should have been, and the reasons he gave were almost exactly the same as chamber's reasons. To me, the self-vote comes off as a "Hey, guys, this is still a joke! I'ma vote myself just like Umbrage did so you guys know that....! *looks around nervously*"

However, el simo's vote just

happened

to "randomly" fall on a developing bandwagon. Interesting, no?

No. I like bandwagons as town. The person who earns my FoS the most is not El Simo, but thadmiral for deterring the wagon by placing a RVS on someone. Why not bandwagon at that point?

Hell, it was so obvious umbrage is probably willing to throw him under the bus!

[Furcolow]

However, el simo's vote just

happened

to "randomly" fall on a developing bandwagon. Interesting, no?

Yup my vote was unrelated to the previous two. Why is this interesting? What are your thoughts on bandwagons that makes this such an interesting occurrence?

yeah, my vote would have been unrelated to in a sense...
i would have been voting umbrage for being obviously scum

[Furcolow]

unvote ortiz;
vote umbrage

[Furcolow]

Personally I jump on RVS wagons regardless of alignment. As town to move the game along, and as scum for the same reason.

THIS...
for the love of God, THIS!

[Furcolow]

Cyberbob picks out Umbrage and ortiz's self-votes. Both were obvious jokes but Umbrage started it. Cyberbob decides he's gonna vote ortiz anyways, because when you want to stifle that kind of behavior you vote for the person who followed it rather than started it, right?

I don't give a rat's arse whether they're the funniest jokes in the world. I consider self-voting to be against one's win condition and contrary to the spirit of the game no matter the context. I chose ortiz over Umbrage because I dislike numbers in usernames.

jester?
a townie hammering himself when he is protecting power roles to prevent other townies from claiming during a massclaim scenario with a ML?
just two scenarios off the top
i strongly disagree with you
self voting can be good

i'm not saying "hammer yourself all the time" and give up arguing your way out of scenarios, but sometimes less is more, and there actually is a role that wants to be lynched.

[Furcolow]

Are you asking me?

Yes. Don't play coy. This is the second time you avoided giving a reason to your vote.

I see you have since done so. Thank you for that, but why not state this up front?

bottom of 3rd page, and i believe the 2nd post from you.
post #1 deterring wagon on scummiest player in the game
post #2 badgering person I consider towniest in the game

not looking good for my opinion of you this game admiral

[Furcolow]

Anyway, my 'stifling discussion' post spawned more discussion than anything so far, so I'm calling it a success. The scummiest players so far are ThAdmiral and Cyberbob. They come in, vote un-randomly, and disappear. Don't like.

Olinea and chamber have to stop the posting diarrhea. A long and confusing game helps scum. Don't post unless you have something to say. Always have something to say.

This entire post is basically mudslinging.
I "disappeared" apparently, even though the game has been going for less than a day?
Olinea and chamber are posting diarrhea?
Seriously?

Vote: umbrage

this post is distancing

[Furcolow]

@Olinea: I've now made seven posts since confirmation, you've made eleven. chamber has made fifteen.

And activity levels and # of posts are not related. You can spam one-liners all you want, it doesn't mean you're very active in the game. All it does is confuse the town. Cyberbob summed it up the best. This game is the farthest thing from coherent.

@all: No more joking/sarcasm/rhetoric stuff. It only gets confusing in the end.

I disagree. This game has been a really easy read for me up until this point as a result of everyone's familiarity, and the fact people aren't wall-posting. Really, really easy for me to ferret out who aren't acting kosher. I had negative vibes from you before even reading, and seeing back, I can see why you're flailing and neck-high in water.

The only real question is where did your wagon go? I blame ThAdmiral

[Furcolow]

When did I lie?

I agreed with them yes but that is not why I voted him. Sora is right I was specifically pushing the bandwagon. I want to know why he thinks this is bad and if he doesn't what he is implying by it being too much of a coincidence.

This is the worst post in the game so far. You answer your own question: you lied about the reasoning for your vote. Which is alright, I think lying for a pressure vote is often a good play, but you try to make it look like you didn't lie. Which can only mean you have something to hide.

This.

he just "this"ed the person he is voting
gg

[Furcolow]

Umbrage, do you have any off-site experience to justify your level of arrogance? Or does it just come naturally?

hahahahaha

[Furcolow]

i almost said "i bet he unvotes umbrage before page 6"
hahahahahahaha
right at the bottom of page 5
the problem here is el simo and ortiz are both likely town from my eyes and have accrued the votes.......
el simo over people misunderstanding him... i can relate to that
ortiz because of his style i believe... hopefully pages 6-8 will give some explanation as to why umbrage or thadmiral don't have a ton of votes on them

[Furcolow]

A random vote might not be random, but a pressure vote is anything but random.

chamber's defence looks more like honest town than buddying scum to me. Doesn't mean el simo's not scum though.

post feels like you have more information than i do

[Furcolow]

Sora, don't vote me based on your own lack of understanding. I am saying the act of voting was random, not the target of the vote. These are two separate actions all together. What you are suggesting is that I chose a random person to vote on, what I actually said was that the decision to cast a vote was random. The point of making this statement was to let people know that I wasn't voting him based on the previously mentioned accusations, regardless of the fact that I agreed with said accusations.

What Umbrages backtrack has to do with ortiz lie, or "misunderstanding" I don't know, but my vote is on ortiz because I want it there and not on Umbrage. Why is this scummy? If it's not, why do you mention it?

And that isn't a good enough answer. How did I bandwagon? How is this different to a good bandwagon? Why are some bandwagons bad and others good? Explain yourself properly please. These questions go to Umbrage as well as he still hasn't answered me either.

Still want Admirals answer too.

geez el simo is good
he has already pegged the same two guys
and i thought

i

was a good player

[Furcolow]

unvote: Umbrage

I just made another ranting post about how you don't understand, and then noticed at the bottom of the post you said, "I just don't what to think," which implies I'm right and you don't understand, I guess that can be townie motivation.

Vote: Ortiz

NO NO NO NO NO
YOU HAD IT
WHY DID YOU UNVOTE?
FFS

[Furcolow]

I just don't believe you.

vote: el simo

So what do you believe?

I believe there is a discrepancy between what you are saying and what you have done. I think that you have been backed in to a corner by the early vote and are scrambling.

5 posts in a row doesn't help either, bro.

I don't believe there is a discrepancy in what he has said whatsoever. He decided to randomly vote to put some pressure on someone who was behaving erratically. It was pro-town from my eyes, but I guess my vision of what is correct and pro-town is different from most people's.

If you dislike 5 posts in a row you must be hating my current catchup style, but i don't really care, because i'm fairly certain i don't have to be nice to you and convince you i'm town and to not vote me later on in the game (like in a lylo scenario where we are both town) because you are scum.

i see no other reason for you not having wagonned umbrage, or for your actions on the bottom of page 5
funny you said 5 posts in a row. nice using that number for me. i wonder if that's what made me remember you on page 5

you asked umbrage to explain the picture
you thissed umbrage around page 4 when you had your vote on him
you then sheeped umbrage's vote on the bottom of page 5 which wasn't even your alls case...
it wasn't a scum case at all, it was a town case (from my eyes) by ortiz... pretty sure both ortiz and el simo are town, and umbrage and thadmiral are scum.



@diddin, i am catching up, modkill me if you wish

[Furcolow]

ive done that on my alt
i dont do that on this
this is my VI account
get over it

[Furcolow]

also, diddin, apologies... it is your thread after all
this is mafiascum, though, and i don't see ANY WARNINGS FOR SPAMMING EVER.

[Furcolow]

Town

:
Furcolow
chamber
Olinea
sorasgoof

Leaning

town

:
el simo
ortiz1193

Null/

Neutral

:
Nicodemus
Thirdkoopa
TheLonging

Leaning

scum

:
Cyberbob

Scum!!!!!!!!:

ThAdmiral
Umbrage

[Furcolow]

also, REALLY want to hear more from thirdkoopa

[Furcolow]

@Furcolow

Why do you have a town read on sorasgoof?

I saw this and immediately wanted to respond, but wanted to make sure to see if there was anything I needed to respond to before this after my last post. Other than Umbrage's flailing all caps whinyness, there wasn't... Oh, wait, I don't really need to respond to that bullshit either.

My read on sora comes for a few reasons:
1) he is trying to teach people, and somewhat failing. leading into:
2) he is frustrated at the retardation of the town. leading into:
3) he posts very genuinely

in response to umbrage's #228:
about me explaining my read on your first post was that the way you worded it felt like you were forcing town-like behavior.
Throughout the game, I have felt your town behavior waver. I don't know if it is because you feel some weirdness with your play/inability to remain town as town, you could possibly be having a hard time in real life, or because you are scum. I am inclined to lean towards it being because you are NOT town. If you want to clarify why I am reading you as being anti-town when you are town, then please do so.

Why not bandwagon? It's not that he didn't vote you - he did. It's just why the fuck did he wait to vote you until you had been unvoted by others when he was going to vote you? He could have been the 4th voter but his cautiousness implies he is scum with you to me, or scum in general. I would almost feel more comfortable with a wagon on him, but I'm somewhat more certain you will flip scum than him.

I didn't get "negative vibes before reading the game". You were a prick from the get-go, and after reading I see why. You are pretty obviously having a different win condition than most of us, and it is causing you to flail about with your head cut off, or else you REALLY need to stick to the newbie games.

#244 if the most beautiful post I have read in my life. It is like an orgasm to my eyes.

IPie, why is ThirdKoopa scum? I could see it, but I've been reading him fairly null
I wouldn't mind a policy lynch on him simply because I can't get a read on him, and tbh Umbrage has been giving me more town-vibes as of late... and the wagon just

feels too easy

.

[Furcolow]

thx
doesnt mean i dont have my eye on you either el simo
i havent seen you as scum

[Furcolow]

d
e
f
e
n
c
e

NT Bro
I wish you'd get on someone a little more scummy...

Whilst I dislike bandwagonning and hammering at times, I don't mind a little pressure D-1.
The only bad thing is it can lead to outting town PRs, if even by sharing who are townies
I dislike that, but other than that, bandwagons can easily be on scum, bro.

Sorry for absence. Was unexpectedly busy last couple of days.

Umbrage and Admiral are still ignoring my questions. I don't ask them because I have nothing else to do. I want answers please.

Can you please restate the questions?

The person who earns my FoS the most is not El Simo, but thadmiral for deterring the wagon by placing a RVS on someone. Why not bandwagon at that point?

My vote wasn't random. I don't believe playing out the rvs for the rvs's sake is good play. I think the sooner a game gets out of the rvs the better. I don't think indiscriminate bandwagonning for the sake of a bandwagon is good.

ive done that on my alt
i dont do that on this
this is my VI account
get over itp

I don't know what this means but if you are intentionally playing badly just for the fun of it you piece of shit, you deserve to be banned from this site for all eternity.

This comes out a bit harsh, but I agree with the spirit of it. Ever since VI's became an accepted part of mafiascum the game has become less fun/skill based imo.

1. This is supposed to be a civil game. I don't give a shit about swearing, but ad hominem attacks and slurs have no place here. (I'm looking at you, Furcolow.) I don't want to see the word 'retard' or any deviation of it. It is both offensive and low-class.

You did call him a piece of shit.

I'm not so sure about my case on el simo anymore. His posting in the last 4 or so pages has been pretty good and has given me town-vibes. His defence of furc also strikes me as town. I can confirm that furc is like this in most games and while I don't like how he plays it still doesn't mean he should be lynched.

I don't like cyberbob (pushing furc policy lynch hard) and thirdkoopa (the weird instant unvote), but for now I will just

unvote

.

Really liking this post
thadmiral isn't lying about me
I'm not "on a VI account for the sake of being on a VI account"
i was referring to this being my main account, and me being a VI
I am also Hydra-ing with Vi, who is a good player, who is teaching me on an alt-hydra-account
therefore, this, my normal account, is my "vi account" even if it is not an "alt account for a vi"

umbrage, kiss my ass, you started it.

Cyberbob is hardcore active lurking. I agree that creating a “VI” account is really not something I, or others, would favor upon since it is an attempt to intentionally ruin others’ games. However, Furcolow’s play hasn’t set off warning signs for me, it’s not VI behavior.

I'll need a few more posts like #266 before I'm convinced of this, but I still want an explanation from him either way of why he tried to deflect criticism in that way.

i DO NOT see why you should be interrogating
you have done NOTHING that is pro-town
you have not even been POSTING pro-town
you're not fuckin' benmage

ThirdKoopa's List

1. ortiz1193 - Neutral
2. el simo - Town (Slight read + Gut on this)
3. ThAdmiral - Neutral
4. Furcolow - Neutral
5. Umbrage - Neutral
6. chamber - Town
7. sorasgoof - Town
8. InflatablePie - ??? (You replaced an inactive person so...)
9. Olinea - ???
10. Cyberbob - Neutral (Slight scum read but this is really gut feeling right now)
12. TheLonging - ???

You have no scum reads at all, other than one "slight scum read" based on gut? I find that hard to believe. And how do you not have any read on Pie? He's been interacting with you quite a bit. What makes you think chamber and I are more townie than anyone else? Your reads are quite similar to Furcolow's reads...

Then, we have the horrible vote on Umbrage (who, by the way, is now a neutral read for some reason), the unvote, and the subsequent burst in activity after being called out. I was already becoming suspicious of you in your ISO5, but everything since then has made you the most scummy player in the game at this point, in my opinion.

vote: Thirdkoopa

I am not really wary of your vote - I like the 3rdkoopa wagon...
just... you chastise IPie for his lists... then you vote with his case?
What is the point of that?
It makes you feel less sure of yourself, which makes me less sure you're town
if you're town, it weakens your vote
if you're scum, it makes you appear cautious which is a scumtell

basically, there is nothing POSSIBLY town about your waffling before bandwagon...
not worth my vote, but worth my

FoS

caution isn't a scumtell unless it's obvious that it's just waffling

seriously wtf do you people think (obviously not if you think caution is a bad thing)

I disagree
town are proven to be more reckless, scum more cautious
I can link you if you'd like.

caution isn't a scumtell unless it's obvious that it's just waffling

(actual content will come later tonight)

hell yea, the dude!
I love white russians.

You should know that people rarely ever just randomly say their gut reads when they have no evidence and can't back it up. If I would've said 5 pages ago, "oh hey btw soras is scum, I can't prove it or anything, I just feel it," then it would've gotten nowhere.

I actually have to back this up...
I listed my gut read in a game the other day, and I almost got crucified
"YOU HADNT MENTIONED THAT PERSON AT ALL"
I was like jeez, man, you can just get bad vibes about someone and not mention it. Is it that big of a deal? I agree with ortiz here.

unvote

i am going to reserve voting seriously until i'm a bit more sure
am considering 3rdkoopa, or sora liking IPie's case. Would you vote ANYONE in groups 2/4 (I believe it was)?
for now I am going to make a placeholder vote on cyberbob

vote: cyberbob

[Furcolow]

i was referring to this being my main account, and me being a VI
...
therefore, this, my normal account, is my "vi account" even if it is not an "alt account for a vi"

this is a really weird train of thought for what looks to have been a post written in the heat of the moment but whatever

i DO NOT see why you should be interrogating
you have done NOTHING that is pro-town
you have not even been POSTING pro-town
you're not fuckin' benmage

this is a pretty strongly worded attack for a dude that's only "placeholder voting" me

I disagree
town are proven to be more reckless, scum more cautious
I can link you if you'd like.

So something that town should almost always be doing as part of good play has become a scumtell? What a shitty meta - I reject the hell out of it.

w/e i didn't make the theory
better players than i did
and a placeholder vote will obviously be on someone you find scummy

i find you scummy
im puttin my vote on you for now
and im goin to bed
good night

[Furcolow]

I'm going to be busy tomorrow
moving my placeholder vote, because cyberbob is probably town (yes, i know what a placeholder vote is!)

unvote: cyberbob

VOTE: umbrage
I feel like his posting is too-defensive and is forced

[Furcolow]

I'm at the top of 16
I noticed Umbrage and Fugitive were voting me
my initial reaction is to laugh at this
I seriously doubt the town will lynch me

Anyways, I will be catching up on this game tomorrow in all likelihood. I am happy with where my vote is on umbrage, am unsure of 3rdkoopa, but I will definitely consider pushing someone fresh not even wagonned yet if my reading tomorrow goes well. here's to scumhunting

[Furcolow]

I don't mind being lynched

[Furcolow]

dont check me if you have any checking abilities
i am the miller

[Furcolow]

cyberbob you have been both willing to push on vis and actively lurking/trolling the entire game

[Furcolow]

if you're town, your post is policy-lynch on nullness and is irrelevant, especially coupled with your following post.
really a joke vote
your play is terrible

[Furcolow]

well, maybe that's just how you play
since you're here, care to give me a list of your town/scum reads and a brief summary of connections you have perceived throughout the game thus far?

[Furcolow]

unvote me because neutral milk hotel rules
also give me time to catch up

[Furcolow]

Fur's play is confusing the shit out of me right now, but Umbrage "jumping on the wagon" (actually confirming his vote, since he was already voting fur... he doesn't even know where his vote is ffs) due to a claim and fur's 481 really rubs me the wrong way. Between the two, Fur seems like the worse lynch. Maybe it's the WIFOM of him claiming miller and offering himself as lynch bait, I don't know. But between the two, I'd rather have Umbrage, and 496 isn't helping my opinion of him.

3K/Fur/Umbrage are at 3 votes each by my count. I'm gonna go read Umbrage in ISO before I think about switching to him, but I'm really leaning towards it. We'll see in the next RL hour or so.

To be honest, I just did this as a reaction test. I formally retract my claim, and welcome all investigation attempts.

To elaborate on why the soras thing is suspicious: He swung the wagon to soras, then when 3K's wagon started gaining steam again, he "forgot" about his confidence in soras and is now pushing the "easy lynch" in Fur. It's like he was trying to distract the town from what 3K was doing (or wasn't doing, depending on your view), then dropped soras for the next best thing/the easy lynch when his wagon wouldn't take off.

Not only that, but his play has been ingenuine and feels forced. I wouldn't mind lynching the slot before it is even replaced whatsoever, and I don't know if he is scum or town. Probably scum based upon his play.

yeah I'm done with voting Fur for now I guess I just really

really

wish he'd pull his head in and stop saying stupid things that effectively act as smokescreening

Unvote, Vote: ThirdKoopa

Pie bussing Umbrage hard though if I thought a lynch on either of them was possible today I'd be right on them instead

don't much like el simo pushing the deadline paranoia thing + the "I want x gone but if I

really have to

would go with y" thing either

Good call, bro.
Other than the fact of the WIFOMness of "oh, he appears to be smokescreening" as in implied knowledge, vs. knowledge you could have gained through analysis (as scum you would know i was smokescreening as town), you have actually gained + points in townieness in my eyes. I was beginning to have my doubts about you, Bob.

@Fugitive: It may seem like I took things out of context because I ISOed everyone instead of reading the thread straight through. Maybe I shouldn't have? Like I said, this was my first time ever doing anything like this. About Furcolow, I'm starting to think maybe he should have claimed Miller earlier. Why did he wait so long?

I wasn't intentionally trying to misrepresent you. I thought you were saying I was playing my scum meta (whiny or something, which isn't my meta), and I guess I understand your views on agreeing with a lynch.

I've waited that long because I was softclaiming townie, honestly
There are about 4 townie claims, with one being a softclaim
we should lynch from that pool
furthermore, you all are noobs for outting power roles as scum and getting yourself into a 50/50 lynch pool
we have also forced a roleclaim today from my perspective
at least we have a week to sort it out, thanks diddin

[Furcolow]

posting to remind myself to read page 24 beyond fugitive voting me

[Furcolow]

Does anyone with meta on Olinea know if they are active as scum?

[Furcolow]

I believe Olinea to be town, honestly, even with my above question.
I have also viewed Chambers to be town.
Zdenek is a town wagon on a replacee into a 25 page game
the replacee in question will have a more difficult time with the flow of the game...
I mean, like Olinea said, I came in on page 7 and I actually possibly read UmbRAGE more difficultly or aware of their tone than I possibly would have not replacing in. I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing, though. I view ThAdmiral as scum, and do not intend to be on a wagon with him. I don't view him as the bussing type of scum either, though now I've turned that into WIFOM haven't I? He probably won't even read this, anyways. Sorry if that is below the belt. He is lurker scum, and that's what he's doing here.
I'm not trying to be hostile, I'm calling it as I see it, and the way that I see it is that these two are definitely scum and need to hang.
I'm not saying "quicklynch before the replacement has time to speak", but I see this wagon as two town players, even if I might be wrong about it.

The way umbrage acted was scummy if not borderline over the line
Do you guys believe they could have been an alt releasing steam or just vehement scum trying to hide a slip
I, for one, lean towards the latter

unvote: 3rdkoopa
vote: zdenek

[Furcolow]

because olinea posts like a champion
although when zdenek flips if he is scum ill have my eye on him for defending him
when i claimed miller i was being facetious honestly
it was more of an "i'll probably end up as the miller" as a townie
do townies ever know they're the miller?
news to me

[Furcolow]

also to clarify on whether or not i read, i read most of the thread, so you're wrong
also, why are you so willing to push me/ortiz? or are you going to iso him to deter the wagon on him?

What are your thoughts on me not voting ortiz, and forcing two competing wagons, which was then offset

I would like sorasgoof to get off the damn fence he's painting

[Furcolow]

if umbrage wasn't scum, the dude needs some barbituates prescribed

[Furcolow]

cyberbob, care to actually scumhunt?

[Furcolow]

um, fugitive, excuse me but i prefer 2 competing wagons
sorry if you disagree

[Furcolow]

when i claimed miller i was being facetious honestly
it was more of an "i'll probably end up as the miller" as a townie
do townies ever know they're the miller?
news to me

Seriously?

100% honesty.

[Furcolow]

zdenek, why are you voting thadmiral when he has less S than ortiz on your list, with ortiz being a higher lynch candidate near deadline?
this makes it look like you are scum with ortiz

[Furcolow]

hell, even staying on my wagon would be more bandwagon
appears like there is no reason for what he's doing unless he genuinely feels the guy is scum, and if that was true he would be voting the guy with "+11S" right?
wtf does that mean anyways
i would like explanations for statements that you are reading as scum or town, not just throwing random math at me that makes no sense

[Furcolow]

Jumping on the leading bandwagon isn't compromising it's opportunistic scum.

To be fair, it could be both. In the context of how he did it though, it does seem scummy.

Ehh, Fugi's kind of right, oritz did receive some quick votes once deadline got extended. I understand why (hell, I voted him as well) but it still seems odd looking back. I'm honestly unsure about how to feel, although Z's voting of Admiral over his higher scumread does seem off as well. If one flips scum, I'll be highly suspicious of the other (although less so if Z flips scum than if oritz flips scum).

I still say 3K's slot is a good lynch. Going with my gut from earlier, plus we save diddin the trouble of finding another replacement. (b' ')b

not for me now that you've defended him too, and i've been viewing umbrage/zdenek as scummy
many people have defended umbrage
even olinea took a stance on him

[Furcolow]

however, after reading zdenek's post, i am not sure what i want to do with my vote. i believe it is on him, too, so i will

unvote

and i will consider getting behind an admiral lynch, but i'm not sure if you're town making a good case or scum playing us
im actually leaning towards the earlier
you cleared up my discretion, and you had actually COVERED that concept in your post, but it still raises an eyebrow and feels like an excuse for offputting why you're not voting ortiz

basically im going to be voting admiral, ortiz, or zdenek
i will do so based upon how they act over the next few days.

[Furcolow]

I believe he said he was randomly voting, but that it was serious

[Furcolow]

sigh

[Furcolow]

In the game flow, though he was the force that messed up in RVS and produced my claim like he did with his "random" comment in this game, I feel that is his behavior where he is probably town. He actually kept me from getting lynched, and knowing MightyDarkZero was scum didn't really hurt.

Him criticizing my play fueled me to have better play, which helped us pin him as scum before I replaced out due to the general inactivity of the game.

[Furcolow]

Then why was he killed N1
I felt like he supported me
You weren't there

[Furcolow]

Also, I don't know his alignment this game, nor how he plays as scum
Therefore, I am not completely opposed to his lynch

[Furcolow]

I'm ok with lynching him to prove a point
I only know my alignment

[Furcolow]

I'm ok with lynching him to prove a point
I only know my alignment

This comes across as really wrong.
Do you think he is scum?

My point is I don't have to believe anyone is scum to be willing to lynch them, because there is noone I can be sure of that is scum.

[Furcolow]

I almost voted him for that, too, bob
I know you're already voting him with 1 other person...
unless they unvoted

[Furcolow]

Olinea is confused town, yes. Good, yet confused.
A lot of people felt I replaced out of that game and "left someone with a mess", but I knew half the scumteam and I was getting doctor protection every night. I replaced out because noone had posted in days, or if they had, it was sparse and intermittent.

I agree with El Simo's assessment, for the most part, but I am not sure he is town this time. If I had to pick between keeping him or keeping Olinea, I would choose to keep Olinea.

Olinea has been my strongest town read since chambers.

[Furcolow]

I'm ok with lynching him to prove a point
I only know my alignment

This comes across as really wrong.
Do you think he is scum?

My point is I don't have to believe anyone is scum to be willing to lynch them, because there is noone I can be sure of that is scum.

Is there anyone you wouldn't be willing to lynch?

I wouldn't want to lynch Olinea or BabySpice(although... I might waver on this one due to policy)
p.s. your play is bad, ad

[Furcolow]

You're welcome.
Bob, I'm the dumbest smart guy you'll ever meet.
Except I don't trip over my own feet... like ever
So I must be a cat, in actuality.

[Furcolow]

I'm not sure if I believe the claim, and his posting time feels a bit like active lurking
I will consider the wagon simply because I don't want to force more claims
If he's really a townie, he's somewhat of a safe lynch...
It gives scum less chance to claim townie, too
I don't mind this lynch, and El Simo's unvote has me raising a metaphysical eyebrow

vote: thirdkoopa

Don't like excuses, and I don't like how he hasn't posted until he was getting wagoned
Fairly sure we caught lurking scum.

[Furcolow]

Scum tried to push my wagon based on my relationship with Furcolow, he is doing the same thing just based on Furcolows relationship with me, it's two sides of the same coin.

And it wasn't an over reaction, I didn't vote him or call him scum or OMGUS or anything, I just saw something and made a note of it.

I didn't push anyone's wagon. I thought Furcolow's early play seemed like preemptive buddying and it was more of a "heads up, did you catch this?".

That being said, I recognize why you think that, since in that game Furcolow took a lot of heat and you claim to have helped him out, and now after you took heat for the "random vote" incident Furcolow's returning the favor.

@Furcolow:
Unrelated to this, why do you say you would be willing to lynch Baby Spice "on policy"? Didn't Baby Spice replace chamber, a strong town read of yours?

I am not wanting to NOW. If we lynch scum a couple times, I will probably let her win with me, but I would lynch her on policy before LYLO because I don't want her voting there.

My voting in LYLO can be awesome or poor. I have won games for the town, and lost them. While I feel one could argue the same thing about me, I don't really consider it as quite black and white as I do with Baby Spice.

Ollie. Last two games that Furc and I were in, one still running with both of us dead, I was scum and pushed Furc as an easy lynch. Bit roughly tbh.

That's why the Q to Cyberbob. Looking at those pushing him to hang.

This is a pretty big misrepresentation
I doubt you've ever been the reason someone was lynched

Ollie. Last two games that Furc and I were in, one still running with both of us dead, I was scum and pushed Furc as an easy lynch. Bit roughly tbh.

That's why the Q to Cyberbob. Looking at those pushing him to hang.

the thing with easy lynches is that they invariably appear as scummy to townies as well (that's why they're considered easy)

if you're going to suspect everyone who pushes for someone's death just because you did it as scum in another game you're going to end up with a lot of mislynches.

She's honestly lying.
She is a liability to the town, that's why I sighed when she replaced into that slot.

Olinea, I think you misread Furcolow's post.

The one about policy, or the one about el simo?

I realize that Furcolow said he wouldn't want to push a lynch on Baby Spice, but the "policy" thing really stuck out. Now I know it's more of an inside joke or something.

No, not an inside joke.
We just can't have her when there are 2 scum left and 3 town for instance.

[Furcolow]

I have read everything other than skimming Olinea and El Simo's walls, but I find them town, and am not going after them
Zdenek may be an easy mislynch, but I am very suspicious of the slot
I am also very willing to lynch most of the other people getting votes, because I love a good bandwagon

Thank you for saying I grew more and more town as D1 progressed, Olinea, I am basking in the warm glow of my ego right now.
I am not

quite

ready to put a vote down at this point, as my reads are a little bit more town-sided-deduced reasoning vs. actually knowing who the scum are at this point. I'd like to see more than 30 pages before I can really decide who is aligned to what.

In terms of Fugitive saying "IT IS DEFINITELY SK", I really disagree. With it being Bodyguard, I am more inclined to lean towards Vig/BG/Cop(or tracker/watcher?) style setup. Possibly Vig/Amnesiac/BG/Cop, but Amnesiac could be anti-town if in the hands of a player who liked scumwins more than town wins. I'm not really sure if that role appears here on MS...

Anyways, I am going to have to say we should probably no lynch unless we get someone claiming vig and leading a lynch (I don't believe it would be pro-town to mishit again, anyways) plus mafia might counterclaim *gasp* what an amazing concept

[Furcolow]

IF YOU ARE A VIG, DO NOT HIT, OR ELSE WE WON'T HAVE 4v3 MYLO WITH A MISLYNCH HERE
I DO NOT KNOW IF THIS IS A MISLYNCH
*CROSSES FINGERS*
anyways, we'll know if it's vig/sk tomorrow... if it's sk they will hit, and we won't lose yet, if it's vig we will not have 2 hits, unless they are very, very dumb or they actually hit scum... or else we lose.

I don't like Fugitive, as he offends me for always pushing me with "flawless reasoning" when I am town... WHATEVER

admiral lynch is a go

vote: Thadmiral

sorry, bro, but you're not acting like town-ad to me
i love you, though

[Furcolow]

if thead is town, though, i'm going to sheep his reads

[Furcolow]

Voting scum is sooooooo antitown neutral milk hotel...

vote; zdenek

[Furcolow]

OLINEA

[Furcolow]

Refreshed and revitalized!

VOTE: Zdenek

This vote mainly comes from my reasons posted at the end of yesterday, plus the fact that his vote on Thad was late and done directly after I called him on not being "out there" ever. Definitely had a very bussy feel. Then after reading InflatablePie's ISO I realize Z was his #1 target in his last post yesterday.

Voting scum is sooooooo antitown neutral milk hotel...

vote; zdenek

Not what I said at all, but thanks for the attempted interpretation. +1 misrep.

And I'd also like to extend a thanks for bussing your partner!

i'm not talking about you
quit being egocentric and self-indulgent or i am going to get you lynched even if you are dumb-as-fuck-town.

[Furcolow]

el simo could easily be scum
i don't really like his tunneling on ortiz, but hell, if ortiz is scum then el simo is most-def-town

kind of a clearing flip, unless he's a busser as scum, but that would take monumentous effort in terms of faking hostility/tunneling

[Furcolow]

well, i'm not scum, so there goes that idea.
also, i was under the impression gunsmith GIVES GUNS.

[Furcolow]

I'm the last townie, apparently. Scum will have to counterclaim if they claim townie.
I doubt there are more townies than me.
I wish I could counterclaim cop. I, however, do not feel like making up reports.

I'd be more apt to believe a watcher claim than a "gunsmith"
that's cute.

[Furcolow]

vote: baby spice

[Furcolow]

wait,

unvote

for now

[Furcolow]

FOS: BABY SPICE

i doubt there would be 6 townies
waiting for other claims

[Furcolow]

wow.
wow.
no

[Furcolow]

ok, so babyspice + fugitive claiming VT directly counterclaims olivea claiming that they are both innocent TO ME
i know i am innocent
one of you 3 is lying, liar

[Furcolow]

well, where i KNOW i'm a townie,
a) there is a godfather
b) your sanity is in question
c) your claim is in question

also, 3 VT claims? 2 right after mine? I say we lynch between fugitive/bs
probably guaranteed scum lynch if we do

i just dont see how they could both be innocent to you
makes no sense to me

vote: olinea

[Furcolow]

UNLESS GF
but if that's the case, what can I do? WIFOM on that.

[Furcolow]

I'm not loose with my vote
your investigation results are shit
i know im town
there should be two scum
you've pinpointed 2 innos making me and ortiz scum?
im not fucking scum
therefore, either you're not town, or you lost it for the town, so i can blame someone else

end of story, BRO.

[Furcolow]

im really disliking this setup for town if olinea's claim is correct, and BS/fogi are a GF type role

[Furcolow]

fugitive = fogi

[Furcolow]

If he left me and baby spice what would happen. Say we lynch ort.... Olineas claim cced me and six toqnies ia a lot wit& gf so I dislike this setup.